find a flaw

>>713875062 (OP)
Only one player is allowed to have fun while the others are forced to heal and just stand around getting beaten up.

i think your "job" in a party should reflect what you're going after.

It makes no sense for a rogue-type player to run up to a fucking DRAGON and stab it in the ankle with a dagger.

it's boring

>>713875062 (OP)

Healers don't exist on the tabletop. They are a artificial vydia contraption.

>>713875062 (OP)
>DPS (damage)
As compared to what other kinds of DPS?

>>713875062 (OP)
They should instead make it polearm, weapon & shield and archer/marksman.
Instead of tank, players will have to avoid getting hit by blocking, parrying, dodging and simple positioning and in PVP, the better team wins.
Healer gets replaced with items.

healing is fine, its tanks that are a problem.
games didnt used to have tanks. i played mmos in the 90s that had no such thing as a tank, there were healers yes, mages yes, martial classes sure, but no such thing as a agro tables or taunt skills.

My general sense is that once mmos went 3d it was too hard to use things like colision detection to just box squishies in and protect them, and so the tank class was invented and its been downhill since then.

>>713875062 (OP)
Unequal responsibility. Typically tanks and healers have a far more important role and require much more concentration while the dps get to actually enjoy the game. This causes far less people to want to play those roles making it take a while to form parties to do content because almost every mmo has a tank shortage and also makes many healers and especially tanks insufferable self important faggots who think they're owed everything for doing their job.

>>713875440
Healers and tanks made little sense.
You didn't have idiots who just stand there and take hits or idiots who heal other idiots in real medieval battles.
You had a bunch of different fighters like polearms, shielders, archers, marksmen and cavalery.

>>713875721
To fix the healer shortage, we should imprison a bunch of useless neets who do not contribute to society, pump them with estogen to forcefully feminize them into submissive bitches and force them to play the healer classes in MMOs. That way, we would have more healers for the DPS players to group up with.

>>713875721
>cavalery.
imagine seeing some dude riding his horse into the middle of a dungeon like "i'm sure to win because my speed is superior"

>>713875721
healers make total sense in a game with magic. they dont just heal, they tend to buff/debuff as well.

>>713875294
doots
bardchads ww@

>>713875062 (OP)
You have to balance the entire game around one player being able to undo all the group's mistakes. A problem "fixed" with unavoidable hits and obscene damages.
Everquest was a mistake.

>>713875062 (OP)
tanks and to a lesser extent healers have too much responsibility on their shoulders and too little reward so nobody wants to play them

>>713875721
>You didn't have idiots who just stand there and take hits or idiots who heal other idiots in real medieval battles.
real medieval battles also didn't typically feature people fighting dragons and mages slinging fireballs all over the place, but you know, it's a video game.

>>713875062 (OP)
If you limit gaming to these arbitrary things you need to kill yourself

>>713875873
I once brought my beloved horse to a LARP event to roleplay a cavaleryman and those fuckers banned me from the event for "disregarding safety regulations".
I bet they were actually just jealous of my melee fighting prowess.

>>713877731
i dont think youre allowed to just bring a horse to this kind of event

>>713878068
Anti-furrys are niggers.
Horses were a major part of premodern warfare and tournaments, whetever youu like it or not.

>>713877731
hey wtf my comment got deleted

>>713877731
>>713878201
seething p2w metafag
the only honor is in the phalanx

>>713875062 (OP)
healer is an inherently boring role

Support bros...

>>713875062 (OP)
>No support
>No controller
It's shit.

>>713875062 (OP)
find a flaw

>>713878404
disagree. healing can be very fun and reactive, when it's done well it's my favourite role to play. the problem is balancing it is a thin line, and most of the time it's either way too easy or way too hard. it's rarely done well, but when it is it's more engaging than anything else.

that said I find that plenty of people are willing to play healers when it's easy, because a lot of people who gravitate towards healers actually want to play a more casual role. tanks are usually in a much worse position than healers imo. it's too much responsibility and very few people have the temperament to be the de facto leader of groups, especially when it comes to fickle MMO players who will scrutinize everything you do. healers get that but to a lesser extent, most of the time they just chill in the background and people ignore them. but as a tank all eyes are on you and not a lot of people wanna deal with that. it also requires more communication than any other role, more knowledge of things like dungeon routes and shortcuts that you're expected to know etc. and what do you get out of it? you get to babysit a bunch of sweaty fucks who will cuss you out if you aren't pulling as fast as they like. unless you have an established group to play with it's just an unforgiving role.

>>713879019
He needs to refit his chainmail.
He needs to wear a helmet.
Replace cookware with throwing axes or javelins.
Needs to drop the backpack during combat, prefferably in a hidden location so it won't get stolen by the enemy.
Needs a helmet.

>>713875062 (OP)
It's the death of creativity, it's overused and makes every encounter painfully generic. It's honestly better to have everyone be self-sustaining DPS as it gives each player more responsibilities hence making the game more fun for everyone. There are plenty of other ways to achieve cooperation rather than forcing a group dynamic with rigid combat roles. Roles can instead be something malleable and situational, a who holds the tip-wire and who lures the beast into it kind of thing.

>>713875062 (OP)
It's the worst middle ground between having an actual role system with depth and variety, and a completely role-less system where people just play like they're soloing with self-sustaining semi-durable damage dealers
Blizzard are responsible for many evils, but I think the single greatest of them is the normalisation of the three role system as the standard not just for RPGs but for all party-based games

>>713875062 (OP)
Tanks and healers only exist through contrived means, Aggro specifically, in a very specific model of slow attrition focused combat. Without the several contrivances, the trinity can not exist.
They are fundamentally bad game design, the equivalent of Parrying diminishing an action game to an absolute trivial base. It's so bad that MMOs have to put in fucking jumping puzzles, minigames, and AOE dodging nonsense for their staged fights to make it not soul crushingly boring.

Healing should be a group effort, something that classes like wizards and rangers do on the side while they're sniping and dropping fireballs on key targets.
"Tanking" should involve formation tactics with many of the frontline fighting classes physically blocking enemies approaching the squishier classes, cycling in fresh fighters while the injured step back towards the wizards/rangers.

Games that do this?

>>713879983
Modern mmorpgs yes, there's no such thing as communications in that genre today.

>>713875062 (OP)
missing controller and missing switch hitter

>>713879983
Guild Wars 2.

>>713875157
I find tanking and healing fun though.
DPSniggers are subhumans.

>>713875279
I'm going to heal you to death for being this stupid, but to be honest it's not worth trying to change opinions I've been debunking since 2000s

>>713880227
...and it sucks. I really want to just sit down and heal people, not participate in DPS race.

>>713879615
>It's honestly better to have everyone be self-sustaining DPS as it gives each player more responsibilities hence making the game more fun for everyone.
You know that you can just log onto Guild Wars 2 and see living proof that you are dumb and wrong, right?

>>713879983
GW1 my beloved

>>713880405
Nah GW2 is living proof that shit developers make shit games, why don't you log into OSRS or Albion Online and see proof that you're dumb and wrong instead?

>>713880574
OSOR and Albion are shit tier games too anon, so you are proof of be dumb and wrong.

>>713880574
>Albion Online
>self-sustaining dps
lmao what
If anything it has many more dedicated roles than the generic triangle

>>713880519
GW1 is literally the opposite. Unless you are explicitly taking a role that calls for self sufficiency in a guild battle, people mostly pick a niche to perform and stick with it.

>>713880665
>he never opened osrs or albion
Keep living in denial son

>>713880519
gw1 is like 6 dps and 2 healers with no tanks because everyone is a tank when you have prot spells

>>713875062 (OP)
everybody wants to be dps

Lotro of all games does it a little differently where dedicated debuffing/support specs are considered its own role and are just as vital as say a healer or tank in tougher fights.
The actual gameplay of that is pretty interesting as opposed to just braindead rotational dps.
You have to keep a good overview of the fight, keep up debuffs, CC, and generally manage the fight while contributing to a bit of dps when you can.

The only problem is that tanking in that game is particularly boring as fuck and your only real contribution is just standing and being hit and healing is just a matter of pressing as many green buttons as you can. It really does feel that the trinity is generally best for balance. If only MMOs made tanking not the lamest shit ever, but who plays MMOs for fun combat anyway?

>>713875157
>dps
follow same steps as optimally you can
>tank
just another dps
>healer
predict damage players take and pay constant attention or the whole group dies

>>713875279
>the mmo "holy trinity"
>mentions tabletop

>>713881790
>who plays MMOs for fun combat anyway?
me. MMO combat is unfairly derided imo, I wouldn't raid if I didn't enjoy it. the only problem is that it's not fun at the baseline, but rather very dependent on your class/spec, and often on the version of the game you're playing, because in a game like WoW a class can play wildly different between two expansions or even between patches. and between different classes, some are put-you-to-sleep boring but others are engaging in a way very few other game's combat is. it's very hit or miss I'll admit but when it hits, it hits good.

>>713875062 (OP)
DPS is the fun class while tank and healer is objectively boring.

The hatred for the Holy Trinity stems from the fact that you often can't change your class without restrictions after character creation. Most players don't level alts just to play as a tank or healer. They choose a solo-friendly DPS class and stick with it.

>>713882584
very true, anon. I was being facetious. MMOs can be fun, but the nature of an ever updating game means sometimes the fun gets fucked.

>>713883503
true. even if you play a hybrid class it can suck to be stuck in a heal or tank spec while doing solo stuff. that's why I think systems like dual spec in WoW are healthy, as much as classic WoW players bitch about it. being able to pivot between roles easily makes it more inviting.

another thing is that healing and tanking can be very intimidating to new players. there's a lot more weight put on those roles than dps even though it's not actually as hard as you'd think, but people psyche themselves out and avoid it. there needs to be some way of introducing new players to those roles in a stress free context, although I'm not entirely sure what that would look like.

>>713875062 (OP)
the idea of a pure tank and a pure healer is dumb and immersion breaking
>1 literal meat shield that does nothing but take hits to the facr
>1 literal HP battery for the meat shield
games like vanilla WoW where all roles were expected to do some degree of damage and supporting are ok. would still prefer if there was an emphasis on preventing damage instead of healing

>>713878786
What's a controller?

>>713882597
>heal class is dps but with additional utility
kino

>>713875062 (OP)
it's dumb. raid wipes shouldn't be decided by two people (tank/healer).

i'd rather anyone dying just proportionally reduced the damage dealt like in korean mmos

>>713875062 (OP)
The only real flaw is that no one wants to play tank and healer compared to dps.

>>713879983
Just make heals potions, food or bandages.
Instead of tanking you try to not get hit, just like in real life combat.

>>713885460
yeah "tanking" should be straight body blocking

>>713885030
>it's dumb. raid wipes shouldn't be decided by two people (tank/healer)
this isn't really true though. DPS usually have mechanics they need to execute in raids too, and in WoW for example bosses have enrage timers so dps need to do enough damage to get them down in time or the group will wipe. individually, dps do have less responsibility, but not none.

>>713879019
>no peaches
shit selfish warrior not thinking about the group

>look ma, i posted my shitty template thread again

>dps (damage)

>>713885914
"Tanking" should be deflecting an enemies attack with your shield with the right timing and then countering with a powerful blow.

>>713885460
>games must be like real life

>>713875062 (OP)
healer is superfluous

>>713894776
*Healers are superfluous in battle but are very important to keep team morale up ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

bump

>>713875062 (OP)
It diminishes the objective superiority of magic-chads to give tankniggers and dextroons greater significance than they should actually have by the rules of the world. There's literally nothing a hunter or a knight can do that mage couldn't do even better with the right spell, but rather than acknowledge that fundamental truth devs feel compelled to nerf and limit magic users to elevate mongrels that fight with sharpened sticks.

>>713879983
Daggerfall
>No Armor?
have fun getting raped by bats LMAO
>No Good/Material Correct Weapons?
that imp just deleted your health, have fun!
>No Magic?
you just spent 3 hours crawling through a maze the size of (you)r mama's cavernous abyss, good luck not teleporting. also you have to return this item within three days to a town four days away at reckless speed :^)

>>713898347
>>No Magic?
>you just spent 3 hours crawling through a maze the size of (you)r mama's cavernous abyss, good luck not teleporting. also you have to return this item within three days to a town four days away at reckless speed :^)
I reached LV 20, bought a boat and retired with a character that was literally incapable of casting any spells under any circumstances.

All you need is high speed and leveling your weapon skill to consistently hit thiungs and you are set up for success.

Healer and Tank aren't relevant outside of group content. The problem is MMOs have solo content. The majority of the playerbase even prefers to play solo.

>>713898496
Having teleportation is such a boon that not having it is something I personally wouldn't wish for most others

>tank
>dps
>heals
>CC
perfect

>>713875157
Sitting down and spamming the same skill rotation for 30 minutes to an hour is supposed to be fun now?

>>713875062 (OP)
>MMO
That's a flaw and a half by itself.

>>713898870
Just walk back out of the dungeon.
It's not very hard.
I would rather have a crapton of bonus HP and other melee perks like atlethicism than teleportation.

>>713875062 (OP)
It causes developer to design a class for a role instead of designing the class first, then marking it as the role that best describes it.

>>713875062 (OP)
hey op looks like you will need to stop using pic rel now
/v/ doesn't actually play mmos so no one can discuss anything about the actual mmos listed

the only holy trinity I know is the father son and holy spirit
bless up

>>713875062 (OP)
I wish MMO raids would occasionally forcefully split up random members and make them go through solo encounters. Anyone who can't fight on his own gets fucked. It's fine to have different playstyles, but it's boring to encourage your players to cripplingly overspecialize in one thing at the cost of everything else.

>>713875062 (OP)
I can't do what I want

>>713900179
Stop trying to derail the thread with obvious bait please, there's already 30 other bait threads.
>>713899763
yeah obviously you can walk out but it's not just the walking out, it's the slogging through, dealing with the enemies, then getting back with a timer set upon ye aswell as looting everything. Teleportation speeds that up considerably.

>>713875062 (OP)
tank is the tard wrangler who tackles encounter mechanics
healer is the neurotic girlfriend (male)
dps are morons and parse kiddies

>>713901024
>tard wrangler
no, tard

>>713875062 (OP)
No support classes that focus solely on buffing and debuffing or stunning creatures at the proper time.

>>713901024
Tank = Hardened masochist
DPS = Cruel sadist
Healer = Permahorny slut for cock

>>713901024
>>713901246
How many porn threads do you fuckers have up? Isn't that enough? Honestly is probably some schizo replying to himself too.