>be dev
>sell game on steam
>70% payout of your earnings
>the irs: not so fast. we keep 30% of that
>money stolen

well maybe you should learn to do your taxes like mommy's big special boy

>>713963041
taxes are theft

>>713962721 (OP)
just wait until you go outside and do anything at all with money.

if we didnt pay taxes you'd be dead within a month.

>>713963224
Taxes are what lets you live in a civilization, anon.

>>713963385
last time I checked my taxes dont go to improve my life but go to trannies, foreigners replacing my people and other retarded shit

>thread mentions taxes
>immediately dogpiled by pro-tax posters
Hmmyes very natural thread you have here.

>>713962721 (OP)
>Don't have to spend a cent on servers or distribution
>Don't even need a website, lots of devs don't even do marketing (outside of a youtube vid)
I agree 30% is way too much but its also not that bad. A return of 50% between Valve and tax on every dollar is pretty good, most businesses work with a margin of 10-20% after expenses.

>>713963479
Not everyone lives in the US, though.

>>713963385
The civilization which hates working class people and wants to tax them even further to give that money to leeches and foreign migrants which none of us voted for? The civilization which then restricts anyone from living outside of the system because all of the land is private/government owned?

>>713963510
can't you read? it's not about steam's cut I think is reasonable. it's about paying another 30% in taxes if your country does not have a tax treaty

>>713962721 (OP)
That's why you make your own webpage and "sell" your game with a donation fee, since donations can't be taxed, right?

>>713962721 (OP)
Valve clearly negotiates deals. 30% is just a default rate.

>>713962721 (OP)
You forgot
>have to pay $100 to have your game on the store

>>713963479
yes, your taxes are paying for undocumented persons of color's gender affirming care. so if you don't pay your taxes then you're literally committing genocide

anyway, are there any notable examples of taxes being portrayed as a good thing in video games? usually I only see games mention taxes when some greedy noble is exploiting the commoners

>>713963578
if you live in europe or japan then it's the same there

>>713963627
>>713963690
this is NOT about steam. jesus christ.

>>713962721 (OP)
So it's treated the same way as capital gains taxes except you cannot hold it for two years and avoid paying taxes? Yeah, it sucks. Good thing is you can at least avoid paying domestic taxes if you've already done so in the US as per treaty.

>>713963385
Excessive taxation(anything higher than 10%) is what keeps people poor, which prevents them from effectively contributing to civilization due to lack of personal resources.

didnt the US chimp out over a 0.5 tax on tea or something some time ago? now look at them today

>>713963761
>mfw live in Euroland
>conversions still treated 1:1 between € and $
>VAT on top of that

"Taxes" in videogames are usually repair costs for equipment, travel, health recovery etc.. They're vital in mass multiplayer games like MMOs because they keep the players' economy a bit in check and don't allow them to easily become rich.

Mhm... I wonder if there's any relation with real life...

>>713963224
again learn to do your taxes or hire accountant to do it for you.
but your shitty game will never make enough money for you to be concerned about tax stuff

>>713963859
the problem is that the taxes were rising constantly and slowly in most countries in the last 50 years. but the growth outpaced it and the boomers still had more at the end of the day. but now this has ended and we are getting assfucked

>>713963385
"civilization" being isreal btw

>>713963979
>They're vital in mass multiplayer games like MMOs because they keep the players' economy a bit in check and don't allow them to easily become rich.
>mfw players were freaking out that crafters and merchants held too much power in Star Wars Galaxies because all gear was degradable and you'd have to replace it eventually

>>713962721 (OP)
microsoft, sony, and nintendo all take 30% on their platforms

>>713963993
It's still mind-blowing to me you have to do your own taxes in the US even if you're not self-employed. What the fuck does Jedediah working in aluminum factory know about filing taxes?

So, do indie devs potentially lose up to 60% of their gain? Steam take 30%, the withholding also chomps down 30% if your country isn't on the kino list.

>>713963224
Money literally comes from the government, though. So how can the government steal what they give out and you use to participate in their society?

>>713963694
any civilization building game, since taxes are effectively your main source of income

>>713964259
>it's the society of the goverment
you are a strange person

>>713963479
Well then we'll just go and dig up your roads, shut down your water and electricity, and turn off your internet. Go live in a cave dumb nigger.

>>713964475
you can't. if you do that the government sends its goons and kills you

>>713964259
>Money literally comes from the government, though.
what the hell i can feel my brain rewiring itself to process this
how am i almost 40 and didn't notice this?

>>713964475
>shut down your water and electricity, and turn off your internet
those aren't tax funded
you have to pay for them in addition to the taxes you're already paying
and those payments are also taxed

>>713964560
You're being paid in MONOPOLY MONEY, anon.

>>713962721 (OP)
yes steam is a rentseeker stealing 30% of your money while doing nothing

tax money fund everything that enables your life like police protecting your ass and healthcare

>>713964475
The last time someone did that the ATF burned 30 kids alive

>>713964707
>tax money fund everything that enables your life like police protecting your ass and healthcare

I got taxed 800 dollars last paycheck
I make 21 an hour and work full time
Just end my suffering

>>713964652
money is a promise enforced by the state

>>713962721 (OP)
>not so fast
then you go to spend the money and they double dip. At the end of the day you only get a fraction of the money that your hard work produced

>its another amerisharts seethe about stuff they voted for thread again

>>713964560
And soon you can spend your company money at the company stores again.
In the trump freedom cities, USA.

>>713964568
If you think basic infrastructure wasn't first implemented by tax funding, and then privatized you're too young, or stupid to be on here talking about this topic.

people in the past were completely self sufficient but they still had to pay taxes or get killed
nothing has changed

>>713964854
>Reddit frog
>Illiterate retard

>>713963503
>generic MUH HUGBOX post
Why are there so many of these in summer?

>>713964918
>actually you need to pay taxes because of something that happened before you were born, goy

>>713964854
there is probably exactly 1 country in the world that actually has votes on taxes

>>713964975
So you're young, and stupid, got it. Basic services and utilities are still paid for with taxes, its just local and state taxes, not federal. But you're probably too stupid to know the differences, or how private companies don't fully own the infrastructure they piggy back off of.

>>713962721 (OP)
Sounds like instead I need to sell the game directly and only accept payment in crypto

>>713965114
you can do that but you have literally 0 market exposure

>>713964147
the only countries that aren't on the list are countries that are basically not legally recognized as countries for various reasons, enemies of that country, or other extreme circumstances.
you can look at the list and compare the number to countries in the world and its basically 99% of the world.

you just need to fill out the form saying you will be doing international stuff and your country sends the notice to the US (since steam is located there) and then notify steam you did this and if anything comes up they just forward your form to the government and its not a problem
there is like a handful of countries where this is a problem and in basically all of you them you can just start your business in a neighboring country and its 0 issue, its pretty much only a problem for retards who don't actually want to put any effort into the business side of things who will screech they because they didn't file their forms properly they got fucked and will 100% have problems with their own countries taxes for not actually doing proper accounting and not filing their shit properly either.

here is the list btw. it's the entry under royalties relevant for steam

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-lbi/tax-treaty-table-1.pdf

>>713963605
Then dont live in a shithole? Every western nation has one and it reduces it to 0. Dumb fuck.

>>713965071
>state collects billions in tax revenue
>roads and bridges still falling apart
>more money spent on DEI than basic services
>y-y-you're just young and stupid!!

>>713965348
>muh strawman
>muh greentext

>>713965348
>Roads and bridges still falling apart
Not my fault you let 18 wheelers use your streets.

any dev that pays 30% is an idiot and deserve to lose it all.
it takes no effort to setup an LLC to hold all the money, give yourself a salary, have endless development expenses, rent your home office from youtself, your company should on paper be a loss.
atleast in usa u can pay only 12% up to 80k if you marry your co developer in a gay marriage

>>713965238
And you will when your tiny unknown game is buried underneath 1000 other tiny unknown games in the same week? At the lowest level of the industry either you make something that people start talking about on their own and spread the word or you don't exist.

>>713965390
this is what 60% taxes looks like

>>713965417
>atleast in usa u can pay only 12% up to 80k if you marry your co developer in a gay marriage
now that's what I call dedication

>>713962721 (OP)
my country has a tax treaty with the US so they take 0%

>>713963690
>>have to pay $100 to have your game on the store
It's not even that, I wanted to make an account even though it's still early for me to publish my game but they won't even let me make the account without paying the $100

>>713964259
>Money literally comes from the government
Sure, but money is an abstract representation of value, and value is what is being stolen.

>>713962721 (OP)
>>70% payout of your earnings
It's actually worse than that, you know.
For sales made in approximately every country that's not the US, VAT or sales tax comes out of the price before Valve takes their cut.
>>the irs: not so fast. we keep 30% of that
It's actually worse than that, you know.
Even after sorting out national-level taxes, local taxes kick in. Even if they did fucking nothing for your game dev business, they still feel entitled to a cut.

I'm going to be 100% dead ass with you on God for a minute: don't go into game dev. It's shit.
You either go big, AAA style, or you go hungry lol.

>>713965589
not value is stolen, but time of your life. like some jewish vampire

>>713963385
Income tax is theft
Property tax is fine because that's you paying to live where you live
A monthly/annual state tax is fine to pay for amenities and running the state

There is no legitimate reason for them to take a portion of the money you are earning.

>>713962721 (OP)
Shut the fuck up Tim. Your propaganda doesn't work and you're just wasting money. How long before Tencent decides you're no longer worth the investment?

>>713965665
>Property tax is fine because that's you paying to live where you live
that literally means you cant own anything ever. you cant pay, property stolen

>>713965417
its super fucking easy to justify this stuff and much of the time its completely legitimate if you can really think about it
>"why is it a business expense to have a top of the line gaming PC paid for by the company?"
>well its market research for the competition
>and all the vidya I buy too, market research
>that trip to the convention too
>and the car is an employment incentive apart of employee remuneration
a lot of people really just don't understand this stuff and how easy it is to justify so many expenses for stuff so you can avoid paying an extra layer of taxes on and keep your own personal taxes lower

>>713965816
many people are not comfortable with those sleazy and jewish tricks

>>713965909
>sleazy
>jewish
how are these not legitimate reasons though?
if you are lying about the use or going out of your way to create situations to maximize your tax reductions then yeah I can understanding feeling skeezy about it and how scummy it is.
like if you want to take a trip somewhere so you look for a convention to justify your trip so you can say you went to the 4 days it ran while you take a week holiday somewhere then yeah, its legal but absolutely exploiting the system.
not informing yourself about reasonable things you will get taxed for and explicitly exist to make it easier for people starting and running businesses, especially smaller ones, especially when they work there themselves and are the most key employee, then its just willfully refusing to engage with the system.

if you are making an indie game, you need to look into tax breaks for the business you start
if you are starting a small business in general you need to keep your costs down as much as possible and there is a reason governments put in effort to make it easier for them and provide monetary incentives for it.
don't pay extra for things no one expects or wants you to out of ignorance.

...videogames?

>>713962721 (OP)
Start searching for unclaimed territory, build infrastructure, raise and maintain an army to defend your claim from outsiders, negotiate trade agreements or peddle your wares within your own border just so that you can earn tax free my man.

>>713966286
that's literally what my ancestors did and I dont think they did that so I can pay ludicrous taxes to jewish pedophiles

>>713966286
Nauru is an independent country and doesn't have an army

>>713962721 (OP)
>30% for marketing and publishing
that's dirt cheap

>>713962721 (OP)
All devs are unpaid employees of Valve

>>713965909
>do labour in incredibly risky enterprise and business
>have costs which can be crippling
>can deduct costs by doing labour and having expenses by a system that entirely permits these functions
>suddenly you're building tunnels beneath synagogues if you use a basic functionality of the system to minimize your burden

The Jew in Jewish doesn't come due to good economic knowledge, it comes from being skeevy and using that economic knowledge to fuck everyone over. You're not doing 10% interest rate loanage or shaving coins or plotting business interference in the banking system, you're a solo unit enjoying the benefits of a tax system by using the system as it very much is intended to be used. You may not like that you can "game" the system but you're meant to, if you don't you're a fool the same way that if you don't play the jury at a court, you'll lose.

Play to win because nobody will try and do it for you. Don't fuck others for no good reason or your profit. Realize that if the tax men really didn't want this to be a thing, they would have "patched" these exploits ages ago.

>>713966387
Time to step up and take it back from them by force then I guess.

>>713962721 (OP)
Remember Christ cucks your god made sure to let you know that you need to pay your taxes. You dont want to go against your god do you?

And people complain why they are charging more for games. Make a game $50 and you only get a little under half of that back. And that doesn't account for the split you have to do with publishers or bonuses for the team and all that. You want to keep that institutional knowledge so you don't want to lower their pay if you can help it.

>>713967131
>thinking devs see a single cent of the profit that publishers make
lmao

>>713964259
because they used guns to take away our gold by force in the 30s and then told us aaaaaand its gone in the 70s.

>>713966891
you first, glowie

>>713967562
I'll work on it for 30% of everything you earn.