This shit has done irreversible damage to the WRPG genre and fantasy video game writing in general.

>>713969000 (OP)
Never heard of em.

>>713969000 (OP)
crpg were full of wacky bazinga humor before these guys were even born. No idea why genre tourists pretend like this genre was ever serious in tone.

>>713969046
every normie has though
thats the problem

>>713969129
I'm normie and I've never heard of them though.

>>713969093
>your games ALWAYS pandered to my extremist political ideology you just didn't see it at the time because games used to have gameplay

>>713969093
Compare the tone in Baldurs gate 2 and BG3. It's night and day.

>>713969093
I think they are complaining about the theater kids not the bazinga humor

>>713969129
*every failed normalfag.

I know, the explosion in popularity and quality releases is just horrible, why can't WRPGs go back to being effectively dead since it doesn't make a difference to dumb secondaries who don't even like WRPGs? You only get the gamer cred if it's a 20+ year old game no one (including you) has ever played, after all.

>>713969182
Thats a Larian issue not anything to do with some television crew.

For me it's Mystery Quest.

>>713969000 (OP)
how

>>713969182
Compare the tone of DOS 1 and BG3 and notice that they're the same. Larian are just shit writers.

>>713969000 (OP)
TTRPGs yes, WRPGs not really. Especially not to CRPGs which are basically going through a renaissance

>>713970067

>>713969093
crpgs used to be written by people who grew up on at least decent fantasy lit

> getting insulted and pulled through shit in an old RPG feels better than being complimented in a new RPG
what causes this?

>>713969000 (OP)
Pillars of Eternity came out just before this shit, and were just as bad, with the same destructive "culture" behind it and real RPGs being dead for a decade at that point. You're young and know nothing, post less and lurk more.

>>713969000 (OP)
I don't know what this is.

>>713971172
Divine Divinity have anything like pic related.

>>713973417
*doesn't

>>713969178
go for the eyes boo go for the eyes

>>713972792
And it was filled with backer donut steels.

>>713973417
Neither did DOS and DOS2, previous poster is just retarded.

>>713973417

>>713972653
Self hatred and low self esteem.

You deserve to be happy anon!

>>713969000 (OP)
I prefer the superior lunatics.

>GRYLLA? GREELA?

>>713969000 (OP)
Playing through BG3 made me realise how fucking shit and gay DnD is. I didnt really know much about it despite being an autistic turbonerd myself.
Was it always like that or did it just get co opted by troonies like so many other things?

>>713970067
do they fuck

>>713973991
5E killed D&D, but also made it THE most profitable and popular. In gaymer terms it was the license's Fire Emblem Awakening moment.

>>713969178
Their games are leftist? Guess I have a new show to watch, thanks

>>713973991
It casualized itself to hell and back to appeal to uber casuals and troonies (although, ironically, most troonies hate it for being uber casualized also)

>>713973991
It wasn't like that in the 80s when all characters were randomized stat blocks that died a lot and nobody cared about the theater aspect.
Anything semi-modern? Always like this.

>>713973991
>Was it always like that
No, gayfaggots ruined it.

>>713969000 (OP)
I remember when the biggest complaint about D&D art was Wayne Reynolds being too cartoonish. I miss WR art.

>Critical Role ruined DnD
>Commander ruined MtG
What ruined Warhammer so we can complete the trinity?

>>713973991
Yes, this specific setting has pretty much always been like that.

>>713974314
>What ruined Warhammer
GW

>>713974314
Women

>>713974314
Most common for people are probably
>End Times
>Primaris

>>713974086
Coincidentally, both Fire Emblem Awakening and Critical Role both have the normie influencer himself

Matt Mercer

>>713974274
jesus...you go from gothic horror to actual clown show.
just why? it's like they WANT to fail

>>713974086
I'd say it was the 4th edition that sent suits into full panic mode and was outright hated by most players. 5th edition was the overcorrection that managed to ride the social media roleplaying buzz.

BG3 is kino

>>713969000 (OP)
>to the WRPG genre

You think that's bad, it crashed the TTRPG scene with no survivors.

>>713969093
>crpg's always had a lot of wacky humor, so you should just accept more and more humor until it's nothing but humor
You are a mouthbreathing retard

>>713970067
It being scripted, for starters

>>713974448
yeah, if you mean
Killed
Involving
Nigger
Overload

Critical Role is content for people that think western VAs are worth listening to, better known as the retard community.

>>713974437
4E was MADE for a video game that never came. Entire thing was designed with video games in mind.

>>713969000 (OP)
Why are these guys so arrogant? They literally act like top billed movie actors

>>713972653
it's patronizing

>>713974576
One of the MMO's is 4th edition iirc

>>713974512
Of course, it's scripted. They make money from it. Imagine destroying your entire business because of bad dice rolls. Problem is unlike with something like LA by Night, where the game and system lend themselves to narrative angles, D&D is supposed to have some crunch.

>>713974620
largely in name only. your "daily power" is anything but once per-day use, for example.

>>713974683
>Of course, it's scripted
I really don't think so, it wouldn't be nearly as boring and meandering if it was.

>>713974683
>Of course, it's scripted

Don't let any fan or tabletop tard hear you say that, they screech like fucking harpies if you dare to suggest their friend simulator isn't all organic play and storytelling

>>713973713
>no reply
lol, lmao

>>713974795
They really are just that shit and untalented/uncreative

>>713974620
GO BACK TO ALBANIA

>>713974250
It wasnt 5e that killed that, it was 3e. The worst example of shonenification is the fork of 3.5e revised, now known as pathfinder.

Literally what even is this thing you are all complaining about? I have never heard of it before. You sound like a bunch of gossipy women with all your complaining.

>>713972653
Honesty.

>>713974890
BONGland

>>713974683
>>713974798
considering the sheer ignoring or dancing around plot hooks that would make interesting stuff to explore for the audience and later TV adaptation, yeah, no way.

You really dont need to be a genius to grasp "DM says learn about the evil elf archmage in eldritch horror city. We will go to eldritch horror city now. Oh, wow! Some hint towards my backstory! I can play off of that. Oh, player Y has a introspective moment. I can jump into his scene. Alright, time for some funny stuff. Alright, back to eldritch horror city. Oh, wow! There is intel on the evil elven archmage! Just like he suggested 5 game sessions ago! What a suprise!

>>713974798
>they screech like fucking harpies if you dare to suggest their friend simulator isn't all organic play and storytelling
Actual tabletop fan here, been on both sides of the gm curtain for the better part of 15 years. It's actually better if runs of exceedingly bad rolls are flubbed behind the curtain, the objective of the game is for people to have fun, an unlikely run of bad luck isn't fun for anyone unless you're good at spinning bad outcomes into fun.

>>713974512
Problem is people not in the hobby think anyone roleplays seriously. Shit always goes astray. Even in serious or horror games a bad roll can happen.

>>713974314
Britain

>>713973991
>did it just get co opted by troonies like so many other things?
This one.
There's even a movement within D&D to only play old editions explicitly to get away from this kind of shit.

>>713975250
I saw a dude saying GMs mostly cheat in favor of the player and I tend to believe it

>>713972792
Pillars of Eternity had a super bleak and depressing tone, what the fuck are you talking about

>>713975416
If you ever had the misfortune to participate in Adventurers League that's very much happening. They have a hard rule of never killing the players and even nerf official modules.

>>713974250
>nobody cared about the theater aspect.
Pretty much.
You're supposed to interact with the world through your charcter but the old school crowd (or at least the CAG part) basically reject doing "voices" wholesale.

>>713975250
Mark of a shit DM that can't turn failures into new story directions

>>713969000 (OP)
Nah, this is one of those situations where the cultural shift was an inevitability and this was just the most popular catalyst. But if not them as an influence, it would have been another.

5e is so trash it's actually infuriating
Pf2e is so much better

>>713975632

well it was obvious he was a secondary when he said gm not dm

>>713975113
I'm sorry for how gullible you are

>>713975518
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with playing out clever social interactions or using that to create interesting scenes, but the whole character voice thing sucks.

Also to be honest, it's not even good acting, a good actor conveys intent, personality etc. through inflection and speech patterns, not doing a dumb accent.

>>713975416
That shit started with bad DM advice in 2E and the narrativist horseshit that followed, old schoolers basically don't do that. Many even do all their rolls out in the open to show it's fair.

>>713975416
It's not the whole truth, if you only cheat in favour of the players even the densest of them will pick up on it, that's why you need to flub shit the other way on occasion. Nothing too serious or frustrating, but just enough to keep up the illusion that the fate of the game is only in the hands of the dice.

That said, there are absolute faggot autists that are dire sticklers to the game rules and run shit games because of it.

>>713975632
That's what I mean by
>unless you're good at spinning bad outcomes into fun
A TPK isn't fun, but the big bad getting away with part of his plot, or even succeeding in the end leading into a whole new campaign to deal with the consequences is pretty fun.

>>713975687
You do realize there are several other systems but D&D, right? Many of them superior.

>>713975736
>I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with playing out clever social interactions or using that to create interesting scenes
I find focusing on it to be extremely boring in practice but ymmv.
>but the whole character voice thing sucks.
Yes, that part makes it excruciating and I refuse to engage with it.

>>713975823
One of the problems with D&D is people treat it as a generalist system and try to force all sorts of games into it, when in reality D&D is made for running heroic fantasy and little else.

>>713975507
It's not about being funny or not, you absolute imbecile. You can play BG3 purposefully avoiding any Larian bullshit and it will still be a failure of a game and an insult to the player. It's about conscious rejection of the existing genre tropes and traditions due to insane amounts of hubris multiplied by severe lack of talent of everyone involved. It's about modern-day entertainment as a whole, and is true for every genre.

>>713975734
explain to me how they can have a robot companion, learn he has connections to a different robot from the previous campaign, are all super hyped to learn about robot companions backstory and meet Campaign 2 Robot Guy again yet for some retarded reason totally forget to actually go meet the guy so the whole thing ends without this giant plot hook ever touched.

This is not how you script shit

>>713975839
>I find focusing on it to be extremely boring in practice but ymmv.
Well yeah, but that's more of an issue of most people not being good at acting or improvising.

>>713975687
Are you retarded? DM specificlaly refers to DnD, whereas GM is the system neutral one. Other games have their own terminology, like Keeper of Arcane Lore in Call of Cthulhu(my personal favorite), or Stroyteller in White Wolf games, or Handler in Delta Green, but if you just want to say "guy who runs the game" in the most generic, system neutral way, you say gm.

>>713975823
>dm is auto-exclusive to D&D

holy fucking secondary

you can be a dm in shadowrun for all it matters

fucking hell these piece of shit newcomers and casuals

>>713975250
I concurr with that - though my most memorable Shadowrun one shot became such because of a statistically ridiculous strings of both critical success and failure. Some games can weather that more gracefully than others - if you're palying Call of Cthulhu, you expect characters to die and the strings of failures up to full chracter team deaths can easily be tied to the horror narrative, better even sometimes than "victory" - But overall, it's a mood killer.
A once in a while critcal failure is great. Introducing the unexpected is good. Keeps players on their toes, force people to be creative. A string of a handful or more of those can make players feel like none of their actions/choices matter, which is a terrible feeling accross the table.

>>713975517
Not at my LGS. The DM killed my character in the middle of the 3rd session I ever played there with a purple worm. I haven't been back to that place since.

>>713975914
but anon that's exactly how you know it's scripted. in roleplaying sense scripted doesn't mean the entire game is written out ahead of time. players have freedom to do shit. it's just that they don't get to really decide anything and when they seemingly do it's already been decided how the story will turn out.

>>713975973
Or if you're an old school DM then "referee".
Also makes it clear you're not going to be a fudging faggot.

>>713975973
Imagine outing yourself this badly as a secondary

>>713976065
It can also depend a lot on the players themselves, I've known some absolute masochists that are in their element when shit goes horribly wrong. There's no single answer to running games, it's basically judgement calls the entire time.

>>713975914
>This is not how you script shit

Because these incompetent fucks have no talent or creativity. They're voice actors, they're already the bottom of the barrel

>>713976149
Are you fucking retarded or something? yeah sure, you can call any of those a "dm", but that's not the term used in the book.
DM is Dungeon master, as in, y'know, dungeons and dragons. And if my game doesn't have dungeons then why should I call the guy who runs it a dungeon master? isn't it rather silly to call someone who runs a sci-fi space opera system like traveller a "dungeon" master?

ROLL
FOR
ANAL
CIRCUMFERENCE

>>713976243
Do you have autism? Serious question

>>713976339
Are you brown? Serious question.

>>713976243
>you can call any of those a "dm"

you do, unless you're a secondary

>>713975973
You're mistaking what amounts to little more than branding with terms used in real life by people that do play games.
I've been "DMing" in clubs for more than 30 years. And I am whether I'm playing WoD, CoC or Maid RPG. For one, I've know very little people that use "storyteller", "Young Master" or any other alternative created on a per game basis.
GMing tends to be the more neutral term, but that's about it.

>>713976383
Sounds like you are, dodging the question. I bet I'm whiter than you in any case

>>713976307
Do people even still stumble across FATAL anymore?

>>713976410
Ok, you're just straight up wrong then.
>>713976415
Not in my experience, at least with the groups I've played. Dm is reserved for dnd, gm is for everything else, unless you really like the game in which case you use the specific term.

>>713976243
The guy has autism anon, he read DM in a book once so that is the proper, immutable term and might as well be carved in stone. He probably has revenge fantasies where people who use other terms get lined up and shot for being wrong.

>>713976536
>anecdotal

lol how stupid are you?

>>713976415
Sure, but saying that someone not using dm and using gm instead is a "secondary" is fucking moronic.

>>713976034
holy

fucking

spacing

batman

>>713976602
>t. cunthurt by the truth
sucks to suck, secondary

>>713976593
You haven't even provided anecdotal evidence. You've provided nothing other that just saying shit you inbred nigger-dog.

>>713976536
Might be a generational thing too.
>>713976501
Hopefully not.

>>713973417
majority of BG3 story and tone was still a lot better than shitty humor of DOS1/2

>>713976602
Definitely, sorry if I came across as saying otherwise.
Purity arguments tend to be moronic. Doubly so when about a past time which is at its core group creativity made for self consumption.
As I like to say; what we do around the table may be shit, but it's our shit. Tailor-made. Laser-focused. Arguing that others are doing it wrong is nonsensical at best.

>>713976762
Being pissed on is probably a lot better than being shat on. Still sounds like a similar enough experience, sorry.

>You can't go using the wrong term because... BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T OKAY?!
Something to remember when browsing 4chan is that everyone here is autistic, and the faggots starting flamewars over inane shit are low functioning spastics. It's best not to interact with them, because they're incapable of reasoning when they're having a meltie.

GM and DM are just terms, nobody (normal) actually cares which one you use, they define the same fucking thing in subtext anyway.

>>713977118
Bg3 is a good game tho

>sit through hundreds of hours of nu-school D&D (2E onward) hoping to get some fun
>very limited in actual play, hours of slow combat, things just don't work as you'd think, trap options, power fantasies in books that aren't on the table, adventures with no structure, just all-around bad advice for DMs
>move over to OSR stuff
>much better for all of those points, faster combat, rules are closer to the intended way and less cargo culty, still has issues like communities that pump out read-only gonzo shit that isn't actually fun on the table, DMs fall for the meme of being way more lethal than was ever actually intended, character rarely ever grow in strength past a few sessions and almost everyone is running one-offs because games fall apart after a while
>sit through some AD&D 1E with the Classic Adventure Game types who just make long-form campaign sandboxes littered with dungeons and city adventures and run the relatively crunchy 1E rules straight (or as straight as they can while still making the pacing quick, no looking up rules mid-play!)
>some of the most fun i've had outside of vidya, levelling actually matters, the weird of D&D is grounded by the more standard fantasy it's paired with, healing magic is ubiquitous and you can afford to raise dead after a few adventures so TPKs aren't an issue, downtime and stable play enters into it so depending on DM you may be running different characters without an issue and have mixed level parties
I can definitely recommend the last part for anyone actually interested in classic D&D fantasy.
Too bad we can't really discuss it on /tg/ without getting 3+ day bans due to a certain someone getting assmad about it.

>>713977167
No, you don't understand what you're doing if you use DM in a game with no dungeons. Use the words you know and stay away from the words you don't, it's THAT simple.

>>713969000 (OP)
Their success just accelerated what was already happening. Degenerate troglodytes were co-opting other hobbies and fucked them up too.
The real issue was retards and midwits starting to use the internet so they could connect instead of being socially shunned.

>>713977356
You have autism. It doesn't matter what words you use as long as you get the meaning across to other people. Subtext is all that actually matters in communication.

>>713969182
Ahh yes, BG2. The game where every woman you meet can't wait to tell you about every man shes even thought of fucking.

>>713977167
Dude you have one side of the """argument""" saying that you're 100% a nogames secondary if you ever not use dm and use gm instead, and another side saying that's not true, and you're calling them both autistic.
Maybe so, but one is substantially more autistic than the other.

>>713974314
Games Workshop killed themselves.

>>713977659
I'm calling everyone autistic full stop, including me, you don't wind up on this shithole unless you've got the 'tism or you're a normalfag on digital safari. The point is that correcting low functioning autists is a waste of a high functioning autist's time, there's literally no getting through to them while they're in meltdown.

>>713977651
>Take Imoen
>Leave Jaheira (fuck Harpers)
>Tell Aerie to fuck off
>Tell Nalia to fuck off and stand ready for your arrival
>Loot her castle and let her deal with her own problems
>Let Viconia burn at the stake
>Leave Mazzy locked up
That's all of them in order of encounter.

>>713974314
WFRP aka the roleplaying branch of Warhammer Fantasy has had a tumultuous history of owners.

>>713969000 (OP)
they finally banned this shit from /tg/?

>>713974314
End Times ruined Fantasy
Horus Heresy ruined 40k

>>713978920
No, discussing oldfag stuff without entryists ruining it is banned on /tg/ though.
Look up archives for deleted posts in the /osr/ general for one example.

>>713969000 (OP)
Name one rpg that was affected by them

>>713974314
Primaris marines
Return of primarchs, perhaps even the invention of them in the first place
Female custodies

>>713979402
Pillars of Eternity 2.

>>713979402
I would put the blame more to MCU.

>>713969000 (OP)
Pic related is how. >>713970067
OP is like 19 and has no point of reference for all the shit they just blatantly rip-off. Jesus wept what a waste of digits.

>>713972653
proving everybody wrong and earning the ass kissing I get at the endgame

>>713973978
I enjoy it somewhat, but they are tumblr central as well

>>713980826
there is no normal group

>>713969000 (OP)
Bring back this fantasy aesthetic

>>713975416
rule of cool overwrites every other rule
does the player says he will kill the dragon in a really smart way, involving the environment and some item you gave him some sessions ago, showing he's paying attention to the storytelling? let that motherfucker kill the dragon
a lich is about to kill one of the pcs in a ritual to progress the plot? make it a heroic sacrifice and bring him back as an undead boss later on

>>713969093
Curse of Strahd was the most popular 5e product

the real damage its done is >>713981218 to ttrpg gms worldwide. why even sit down to play if players will be mad when a gm enforces the agreed upon rules? does everyone just cheat at vidya non-stop and pretend like they dont?

>>713980987
Glass Cannon and associates are generally good.

>>713969000 (OP)
Zero argument. kys

>>713975250
Actual GM and player here:
Your games are only entertaining to the ignorant, which is not an endearing position to be in.

>>713969000 (OP)
I tried watching from the beginning. Even if I quit 4chins and vidya and listened to every episode on my commute I don't think I'd ever catch up.

>>713976243
>all of these retards actually agreeing with peak Mt. Stupid Anon that DM isn't intrinsically a D&D term while calling others secondaries

This thread is 144 posts long and nobody has posted porn of the goblin yet

>>713981390

>>713978556
>squat the setting
>still make another edition
I genuinely don't know what GW is thinking at times.

It's pretty blatant nowadays but back then you have actual artists and writers that hated that their hobby was overwhelmingly populated by white dudes and would go out of their way to show it without explicitly saying it. The hobby was pretty much infiltrated at that point, it just needed to create the fandom next which didn't really come about until the 2010s.

>>713982017
Last gobbo thread got bumplocked, I can take
a hint

>>713981218
The focus on the whole "theatre of the mind" shit is the real mechanical killer of ttrpgs. It became less of a game and more about an improv theatre session.

This is a barbarian in Daggerheart, Critical Role's TTRPG.

>>713976501
I was at a small TTRPG con recently helping a friend with his campaign, they held a quiz there, and one of the questions was about FATAL.

>>713974795
Its scripted in a way that they know how things usually go ahead of time. The gist of it anyways.

>>713975416
That's GM advice if you're playing with noobs. Otherwise, don't baby the players.

>>713982696
gross

>>713982696
This is a barbarian in

>>713982264
It's not run by GW. WFRP has been licensed to various publishers over the years. I think Cubicle 7 is currently handling it.

>>713982965
MR ADVERTISER GET DOWN

>>713975762
>Many even do all their rolls out in the open to show it's fair.
There are people that DON'T show the rolls??? What's the point then? What's the point of anything if you're not following the rules of the game? Can I play chess and just make all my pawns queens whenever I want because it'll be more "fun" that way? That's not fun! I'm unreasonably mad at this.

>>713969000 (OP)
I tried to watch this shit and it was so boring, I just can't get how people are so much into it

>>713982994
OH FUCK A NON-PORNOGRAPHIC RENDITION OF A NIPPLE

>>713982696
What a bold and beautiful woman.

>>713982696
what the fuck?

>>713983043
DM screens exist for a reason.

>>713983043
Yes some GMs want to either spice things up or save the player from eating shit in a way that'll extremely frustrate everyone else. It's about discretion but you know what's worse? Players ASKING for it. That ticks me off to no end.

>>713982696
Look at those battle scars, this powerful fighter must have had his shares of adventures!

>>713976501
It's the only game that has debauchery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy8hjxHuRHk

>>713982965
uuuh that's problematic AND toxic

>>713979402
bg3

>>713983291
I always hail this as the progenitor of Corruption of Champions

>>713983043
>I'm unreasonably mad at this.
You sure as fuck are.

>>713983054
Every time I watch it, I fucking fall asleep.
Which is weird, because I must have watched like 200 episodes of Thrilling Intent, which is literally just a voice chat roleplay using an old Pathfinder app and skipping dice rolls and systems completely. It's not like gays and roleplay can't be fun. CR just isn't fun.

>board game cafe
>wonder if they have the DRG game
>it's just furries and hambeasts playing dragonkin and tieflings in the latest DnD edition (I stopped counting)
>all the menu items are overpriced
>go drink coffee with the homeless people instead

>>713983551
Because they're running a show primarily. There is a distinction between and actual Live Play.

>>713983678
Just don't look at 5e 2024.
There no more races, now they're species.
There are no more half-elves and half-orcs, because colonialism I guess.

>>713974314
futa fetishists

>people complaining about "theater kids"
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean but shit I would love to have to players who treat the game as if it were theater. 99% of people I've ever played with named their characters shit like "Sir Dickbutt" and needed everything to be a joke or a Marvel quip.

I don't know why you're forcing this meme, bioware was sacrificed by feminists for all to see back in like 2010

>>713974314
If The Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device. Brought in a wave of casuals who don't understand the lore.

>>713984123
Right those are theater kids, immature weirdos that just hang out in drama class

>>713984239
No?

>>713984123
Because roleplaying is not improv. It's marriage of fluff and crunch, aka playing the game using the ruleset and acting out your characters narratively. Every player, every group has these two things in different ratios. Theater kids would prefer to just act out character without anything mechanical. In a sense, they're not actually interested in ROLEPLAYING.

>>713983428
Fuck you

>>713984265
Yes? They're not called theater kids because they're talented, they're called that because they congregate in artsy fartsy school classes where there's no jocks to trigger them

>>713984123
Theater kids ≠ good/endearing actors, if you google the term you'll recognize the "annoying hypersocialized retard" phenotype, the quirky white girl or the dude who speaks exclusively in a High School Musical cadence

>>713983165
I thought those were for hiding the stat sheets of monsters/NPCs or notes for the story the players aren't meant to know. I never knew they would hide the rolls behind it, that seems to defeat the entire purpose of rolling dice to figure out what happens next.

>>713984285
>Theater kids would prefer to just act out character without anything mechanical. In a sense, they're not actually interested in ROLEPLAYING.
I get the feeling this is most players today. Or they're parasocially observing actual roleplayers and imagining themselves as part of the hobby.

>>713984569
This is the other side of the issue, they're not interested in the game at all and are only interested in socializing. This is why 5e is the dumbed down mess that it is because it's not made for people that like combat or building characters

>>713984123
Theater kids and Grognards are eternal enemies.

>>713984123
>treat the game as if it were theater
You're thinking of Elizabethan theatre. We're talking about Avenue Q.

>>713969000 (OP)
you don't like excessive modern swearing and everybody being gay?

>>713984285
>>713984569
What confuses me is why those people flock to D&D of all games. There are games/rulesets out there that require far less involvement and are more dramatically inclined by default. Hell, some don't even use dice.

>>713969000 (OP)
>fantasy video game writing
Feel free to point fingers at e-celebs, but it's the fucking videogames that damaged fantasy itself. In tandem with anime as well, or weeaboo sword fantasy to be precise.
Once, systems-oriented autists wanted to create games with mechanics inspired by genre fiction. Now it's genre fiction that copypastes those crunchy systems, and not even forefathers of the genre, in complete disregard of the very term FANTASY. It's all fireballs and skills that were most relevant in videogames, since combat is what games focus on most. As if action alone is what makes writing engaging. For all the technical improvements, "problem solving" is still largely limited to combat and explicit dialogue checks.
I don't think "fantasy video game writing" ever got any better than Arx Fatalis, in the pulpy fantasy adventure sense anyway.

>>713984901
>cugel
What an asshole

>Season 1
pure D&D kino with plenty of shenanigans and badass moments

>Season 2
literally crying over a character's death (really early on in the season) and getting so emotional some have to leave the table

>Season 3
full-blown "LA culture". everything sucks, nothing is fun

At least I can still go back and enjoy season 1. Wish the cartoon didn't change so much shit from the source material, or I could enjoy that as well.

>>713984798
To be fair, everybody being gay is Travis's fault. Laura has no choice because he tried so hard to get her to not romance him for campaign 3 by playing exclusively old men, and the other 3 guys are completely unfuckable.

>>713984865
Because people like that will naturally go for the most populated and well known property as it puts more eyeballs on their antics. They're artists in their own mind's eye.

>>713984865
They don't. Have you ever noticed how when a medium dies all the fags come out of the woodwork? The consumerist starbucks drinking inner city mixed race libtard with 93 IQ that takes dick up his ass might think he's cool and quirky if he plays dnd and talks about cocks the entire time

>>713982696
powerful...

>>713985039
>full-blown "LA culture".
Taliesin Jaffe trying to act like a punk bar creep was some of the goofiest shit I've seen.

>>713969000 (OP)
It was bound to happen. When you fail to gatekeep your hobbies and allow them to become mainstream (especially in today's vapid, superficial culture) just to feel validated by the same people that made fun of you and never really cared, you get what's been happening to DnD and ttrpgs atm.

Then again, what CAN you realistically do when the companies that own these games (most famous examples being WOTC and Paizo) are left-leaning in their rhetoric themselves.
Mercer and his theater kid group may have brought in the unrealistically high production and storytelling values, but they also found a very fertile ground to grow their "modern" tropes in the current landscape of ttrpgs.

>>713984998
This is why I love him. The way he stumbles in and out of problems is hilarious. It only gets better when you remember last half of the first Dying Earth collection is about the journey of Guyal of Sfere, a man much more deserving of Cugel's epithet.

>>713984865
D&D is the game everyone's heard of. A lot of these people probably don't have a strong general interest in games, they just heard of D&D because it's the most well-known.

>>713985085
>>713985070
I know some that at least went to Vampire: The Masquerade... And also LARP in like Renaissance Fair(e?) shit...
>>713969000 (OP)
Checked and blessed
Trips of truth
WHAT 9000? THAT CAN'T BE RIGHT!

>>713985720
>Renaissance Fair
Anybody that goes to these things that isn't a hardcore armchair historian probably has something wrong with them

>>713973713
>Activate Windows

>>713973991
>Was it always like that or did it just get co opted by troonies like so many other things?
Gee anon I wonder. >>713975402
My group can't stomach anything newer than 3.5; we actually moved to Pathfinder until that got too gay also

>>713985370
Part of the mistake is that everyone seems to think that a nerd is necessarily intellectual, or even creative.
There's really not a lot of people in the hobby who would gatekeep it against this kind of thing in the first place. It's always been overrun with people who consume too much Hollywood media and let that dictate their entire fucking moral compass and how they think about things. Zed Bashew is a pretty old fucking player, and he still made like a 10 minute long animation where he's basically just cringing about the fact that Gygax dared to mention the name "Hitler" in a passage explaining Charisma.

>>713985946
I just like turkey leg

>>713986223
I can't imagine going to a themed fair and being completely ignorant of what you're looking at, that's something women or fags would do

Then if you actually knew what you were looking at you could point out how virtually nothing anybody is doing has anything to do with history

>>713986332
Yeah imagine going out and experiencing things so you can learn about them how GAY

>>713986403
As we've pointed out, gays and women aren't invading male spaces to "learn", they're using them to farm attention

oh toodley-hee I'm a 6/10 girl; at a renaissance fair toodley-hoo, look at my braids

>>713986332
Anon, I think you might be a pseudointellectual

>>713983551
I watched a bit of it when it was new and then fell off, not only because of how consistently shit these people are at the game they make a ton of money playing for ages, but how bad they are at using what they are given by the system and narrative for their roleplay and every time rather use what they don't have instead. What's the fucking point of having mechanics, features and items when the players consistently waste a million years in a desparate attempt to awkwardly summon up some vague bullshit and circumstances that aren't there, until the GM caves and just let's them do it to finally get something over with?

>>713986332
I like watching the blacksmith and carpenter
I like watching the joust
I like the music
I like turkey leg

>>713986540
>t. writes tragic backstories for xer characters so people validate you in a game

>>713986669
Oh yeah the blacksmith would be interesting

>>713986678
see
>>713986669

>played D&D in the early 2000s
>DM was my friend's dad and he would run modules or his other group's campaign for us
>game had a distinct adventure and combat/puzzle solving nature to it
>the DM was like an enemy who always sought to party wipe us
>flash forward to 2020s
>try and get back into D&D
>look for some games
>everyone just wants to roleplay all game
>dungeons and exploring are very few
>DM is like this weird chimera thing that exists to make a co-operative story with people
its like all the theaterkids we used to ghost from games back then became the majority and completely changed the central appeal of the experience. I asked /tg/ about this ages ago and they all shit on me and said that the game was never like what I remember and if I wanted that experience I should just play vidya lol

>>713969000 (OP)
I have a friend who talks about these faggots constantly like it gives him "nerd cred" or something. It's embarrassing, I love the guy but fuck me his taste is awful.

>>713986770
I watch monster truck rallies at my church that means I'm a christian

>>713986841
nobody cares but you

>>713974314
Friends have finally got me to play magic after years of me avoiding it and they suggested commander format, what's the issue with it?

>>713969000 (OP)
its easy to see who are pretenders because they think wacky humor in d&d is somehow new or something when its been basically the essence of it since the beginning, you stupid faggot

>>713986880
That's fine, even if nobody cares I'm still right

>>713984161
>TTS
>Basically just a paper puppet show that leans heavily on 40k memes
>GW
>Blows up the original Warhammer setting, utterly butchers lore on the regular, hires writers that write they/them orks, has a melty whenever fan projects are too successful because it makes their retarded asses look bad

You tell me what's worse

>>713986969
even if you're right, are you happy overscrutinizing a Renaissance festival instead of just accepting it for what it is

what are you accomplishing

>spoony makes a series talking about ttrpgs and ends it just before mainstream interest in d&d explodes
What a world

>>713986821
i can't speak for the early 2000s but as late 2000s fa/tg/uy it wasn't like that you're wrong, you're describing boomer oldschool DM style more common in the 80s and 90s

think about that decade, the vampire fags were particularly prone to the "theater kid" types

you just had an old guy doing it in the old style and got lucky

>>713986940
>what's the issue with it?
the format is fundamentally incompatable with mtg as a game. It changes the way you play so hard that it completely fucks game balance and the only way to enjoy it is to play so casually you may as well not even play mtg since any other board game offers a better 4 player experience.

>>713987161
Somebody compared a renaissance fair to the freaks playing dnd today. The freaks that paly DnD aren't interested in rolepaalyign or buildign their characters, they're jsut there superficially to be validated

I thought it would be an interesting thought experiment to take that all the way with a renaissance fair, portraying some fair goers or carneys as superficial retards looking for validation. While that's most definitely and over exaggeration I still find it interesting

>>713987178
Spoony was always ahead of his time

>>713986186
I mean certainly you have to expect some higher degree (though not particularily much) of imagination and inquisitive spirit from a dedicated ttrpgfag but, yeah, that doesn't necessitate for him to be some interesting punk genius going against the norm.

Definitely not anymore for sure, seeing how much the hobby's space has been inflated with 5e/Stranger Things/Critical Role/Baldur's Gate 3 fotm casuals that wanna get that trendy "I'm a Nerd" seal of approval and move on.

why does D&D have so many god damn troons?

>>713987459
It's every industry now because entertainment is dead, killed by women

>>713987357
How'd he get up the stairs in the wheelchair with the ghosts attacking them

>>713987357
I remember playing a Cavalier in 3.5 and it was a pain in the ass to bring a horse everywhere, how the fuck would you get around and adventure about with a wheelchair-bound party member unless you pretend everywhere has handicap accessible ramps.

>>713969000 (OP)
>WRPG
You already ruined /vrpg/. It's why you're completely alone there. An entire board just for your shitposting. Cant you wallow in misery by yourself?

>>713983043
>chess
>one bad move and the game you've spent playing for ten minutes goes to shit
>ttrpg
>one bad move and the game you've spent playing for seven months goes to shit
I would roll everything in a one shot or a small module out in the open but that's about it.

>>713969129
>normie

>>713985370
The worst part is they can't even really back down now. They went full retard with the normie stuff and things the real, long lasting playerbase doesn't want.

>>713987459
Because they are like autistic nerds but socially acceptable so no one will ever argue with them when they are vocal about anything while classic nerds have a social baggage that leads them to be fought into submission

>>713988005
There's a reason most people stick with old versions. 4e and 5e don't even exist to probably the only people whose opinions matter (those that don't hang out with freaks)

>>713988005
They could. Problem is both Paizo and WotC are locked in a dick measuring contest regarding which company is the wokest one.

>NuCRPGs
lol who cares

>>713988120
>4e and 5e don't even exist to probably the only people whose opinions matter
Im a zoomer so me and my friends got the rulebooks for 4e as christmas/birthday presents and man were we confused at the time. I think we played like 1 game with the 4e ruleset and then dropped it for 3.5, same with 5e when it released.

>>713988005
I dont think anons comprehend that wotc is the ONLY profitable branch of hasbro. Wotc will do anything for money because hasbro is being held up solely by them. Now that D&D and especially mtg are beginning to kick the bucket its so fucking over for them

>>713988278
4e is a fun tactical battle system but DnD is plagued by "I wanna do out of battle cocktail party infiltration for 6 hours" theatre kids

>>713988120
>>713988278
I can't tell if OGL was a massive success or disaster for D&D.

>>713985039
>Friends want me to watch the first episode together with them
>Non-stop swearing
>Bard is acting like every other Bard in the last 10 years
I told them that it was shit and gay.

>>713988478
Like one anon said the problem is people are trying to play EVERY kind of game using D&D, and it was really only built for heroic fantasy. Good luck getting players to learn how to play something else, though.

>>713988278
4e is actually probably better than 3e for combat but it changed so much fundamentally about the game that nobody liked it

>>713988603
God damn. I want to explore a dungeon!!!!

>>713988478
>>713988674
>4e is actually good
am I being punked? Granted I played very little of the system but every combat encounter was the group alpha striking the fuck out of the enemy with the strongest powers to steamroll every combat encounter

>>713988603
>porny girls
>Flesh on display
Please delete this. Our crusade against male gaze and power fantasy must continue

>>713988765
what's wrong with that? the entire point of 4e was to get everybody involved in combat.

>>713988603
>>713988791
I'm not into the scene at all but I wonder if there's still games like this being played somewhere, outside of old ass 60 year old groups that still play. Or are all zoomers pussies?

>>713969182
You walk into the first shop in BG2 and it's already full of le wacky dialogue
Sure there's fucked up stuff in between but come on

>>713988765
>Granted I played very little of the system but every combat encounter was the group alpha striking the fuck out of the enemy with the strongest powers to steamroll every combat encounter

Because you played with said theater kids who wanted to do one combat encounter per day and your DM didn't balance combat encounters accordingly

>>713988005
Yep. Consciously and subconsciously they have managed to mold their audience and culture of the hobby to what they deem is right. Pinkerton's and whatnot.

>>713988949
>Or are all zoomers pussies?
are you asking if zoomers keep horny shit in their games? then the answer is yes, because Im a zoomer and our party would always seek out prostitutes and babes in every city. The start of pretty much every adventure involve the rogue banging some woman he shouldnt have or the orc beat the fuck out of a prostitute to avoid paying.

>>713988765
4e received an extensive errata and was clearly untested

>>713988478
>>713988603
This is the problem, people think DnD is for roleplaying when Call of Cthulu or Delta Green or any of the dozen World of Darkness rpgs have an emphasis on the roleplay part with actual mechanics for it, like investigations and emphasis on social encounters and in-game systems for tracking roleplay decisions that have tangible effects on the player's character. DnD is better for smacking monsters in hexbased dungeons and that's about it.
>Good luck getting players to learn how to play something else, though.
painfully true

>>713989176
>Call of Cthulu or Delta Green or any of the dozen World of Darkness
Mein nigger

>>713989171
The idea is sound though, no? DnD combat would be better if everybody had some power to use in combat instead of the wizard afking and soaking xp

>>713988591
to be fair, the first few episodes of season 1 are pretty cringe, it's not until Whitestone where they start hitting their stride

>>713969093
Spbp

>>713989176
I find it interesting how very few games have any kind of "social combat" beyond just basic "you roll dice, enemy rolls dice = bigger number wins". I think L5R of all games has a big focus on social play because of courtiers and whatnot. Your characters ARE expected to participate in society and not just be mercenaries for hire.

D&D was never good. People are just deeply ingrained in the system

>every board shits on ecelebs on principle
>/tg/ has a fucking general for the critical role show
>literally an eceleb general
>it also has mod protection because when I asked why eceleb shit was allowed I got near insta 3 day banned from the board for "off topic"
jfc that board is just reddit now
inb4 >now

>>713989149
That's good. It's hard to know whether or not zoomers have bought into the propaganda or not that all heterosexual male sexuality is evil and bad, or how talking about slavery and rape means you condone it in real life. Seeing how it's all getting removed from the official modules based on >>713989089 I figured it's hard to get into that stuff now as a new player.

>>713989306
That's the endless. Should wizards get all the cool shit and fighters get to hit someone again, and again, and again. In 4E everyone was essentially turned into a caster.

>>713989306
4e was made to be a video game

>>713989176
You don't need extensive systems and crunch for out of combat roleplay stuff anyway, you just need enough to show how one character is generally better at some out of combat aspect than other at something else. Too much and you kill the roleplay.

And I would much rather be rolling dice in a combat than doing cocktail party infiltration, but a million rolls to get around that party room and conversation is stupid and makes it even less desirable.

>>713989390
Don't care.

>>713989553
anon if you want a whitepill zoomers are still as horny and violent as any other male generation. The difference is zoomer girls are fucking crazy and you will be denied pussy if you dont posture as a women's ally or whatever the fuck. All the bullshit of zoomers being sexless betas is just a charade we have to do to avoid being socially ostracized by all the girls that got hit by the brain virus.

>>713989176
>>713989237
Truth times 1000. I've been slowly transitioning my table away from D&D/PF, and while we do still dip back in occasionally, we've definitely been having more fun with other systems.
I'm about to GM for Impossible Landscapes and my players are more excited than they've been in a while.

>>713989554
>fighters have to be the best all around character because they shit out damage for free
>mages don't shit out damage early because down the line you get a handful of broken spells
>players complain about combat being boring
>naturally people would think this is because some characters, like wizards, do fuck all besides fireball and haste
>wizards also needed to actually find the fireball and haste scrolls to learn them so you can be the appropriate level and still have no spells
>wizards tries to fix this in 5e by giving wizards haste and fireball for free on level up
Hmm

>Social shit
Just use AI for almost every NPC in the game, so that players can engage in dialogue with em. Yes, you shoud drag every session by another +5 hours

>>713989737
Sounds rough buddy

I kinda enjoy Narrative Declaration especially when they go full retard and don't try to tell some serious story or some shit and when Zoran keeps his mouth shut

>>713989737
>The difference is zoomer girls are fucking crazy and you will be denied pussy if you dont posture as a women's ally or whatever the fuck. All the bullshit of zoomers being sexless betas is just a charade we have to do to avoid being socially ostracized by all the girls that got hit by the brain virus.

so exactly the same as millennials.

>>713989737
>All the bullshit of zoomers being sexless betas is just a charade
Except that most zooms drink their own kool aid

>>713969000 (OP)
Not... really? No. Not really. Season 1 of Critical Role is full of newbies to the D&D scene, and they chose classes that are famously underpowered and unfun to play. 20 minutes on /tg/ would have taught those dude and dudettes to not do this. The game master was a good 6/10, maybe a 7/10 when he really tried. They played fucking Pathfinder (lol). All in all, it's a good example of a first time party playing D&D, literally stepping into all the numerous traps with D&D and playing Pathfinder (lol).

Seconds season, they stopped playing Pathfinder (lol), and they mostly stuck to good classes. The GM was more competent.

The important point is that while Critical Role was mostly incompetent, it wasn't actively malicious, and I don't think it did any damage, long term.

No man has ever believed in any of the feminist shit. It's always been betas hanging out with them hoping to score pussy by larping as MUH WOMEN'S ALLY.
But, companies aren't do it for pussy, they do it for Blackrock funding. Paizo and Hasbro are both gigasimping for that Blackrock money by letting a bunch of zealot retards absolutely torch the games. D&D was a wargame about having cool adventures in a pulp fantasy setting. You could sneak some horny fukken shit in there, but adding lame+gay shit? Nah man Orcs aren't mestizo farmers ha ha holy shit what the fuck are you secretly turbo-racists?

>>713990479
>Tumblr image
>and I don't think it did any damage

>>713990479
"Critical role killed dnd" is something only retards think. They only have like a million subscribers. What killed dnd was the typical corporate acquisition story, the main writers and designers were pushed to the side and the next person in line was given control. Little did they know this guy was a white hating champagne socialist that had no idea what he was doing

>>713969093
CRPGs had geeky and irreverent humor, it didn't have Quirky Progressive Chungus sex pest characters and developers openly bragging about how "horny" the games were

>>713969239
It's not just a Larian thing. BG3 was definitely pandering to the Nu-D&D audience

>>713969000 (OP)
Meh, WotC was already shit enough before CR. They certainly didn't need any help ruining D&D.

>>713987459
There's a troon in my group and she's cute and I want to fuck her.

>>713991959
>she
>her

>>713973713
The sheep being the discount option in the brothel isn't the same thing as an extended scene where you encounter monsters having sex in a barn and goblins trying to make you kiss their feet and descriptions of cum stained kobold porn books and bear sex

>>713989306
There is a huge, and I mean a huge, problem with classical D&D vancian casting. It's a huge problem, everyone knows it's a huge problem, everyone fucking knows it's an issue with the game. No other non-inspired D&D games have such an issue with magic. It's born of the very fact that D&D is antediluvian, born of tabletop wargames, before any tabletop RPG was even thought of. Gary Gygax fucked up with his implementation of magic - he knows he fucked it up, and admitted he fucked up before dying.

But nerds can cast Time-Stop and Meteor in a single round, and that's fucking awesome. So each subsequent D&D editions didn't shy away from broken Vancian magic, but only strenghtened it. After all it's very very cool, you're a mage and you can teleport and be invisible and summon demons before stopping time. Very cool. All the nerds love it. (it breaks the game, but all the nerds love it)

D&D 4e was a good idea, on paper: remove all that bullshit. No spells, no bullshit, everyone is equal. It would be a great idea if that tabletop MMORPG didn't, you know, REMOVE THE ENTIRE CONCEPT OF SPELLS from gameplay. And did some unspeakable thing to the lore. Removing the very concept of wizard casting spells because spells are too powerful seems like a bit of an overreaction.

4E was so bad it fucking birthed Pathfinder. When you fuck up so much a retard company get 50% of the sells because you fucked up your new edition so much people would rather eat shit than eat what you're writing. Congrats.

>>713972653
Because it's not condescending, and it challenges you to earn a reputation rather than have it laid at your feet for simply existing
It also makes the worlds more interesting and less hugboxy

>>713987459
same reason GDQ is infested
it's a male-dominated nerd space full of pussies, nobody to fight back the hordes
They just appear and conquer because they know they can use it as another platform to push their agenda

>>713969228
This but unironically

>>713974142
incredibly cringe comment to be honest

>>713991574
>developers openly bragging about how "horny" the games were
But they did, the difference is that they had hot elf sluts in unrealistic armor

>>713992181
Why can't they just add in mana points or something.

>>713989176
Smacking monsters in a hexbased dungeon is all you really need to have a good time anyway.

>>713974345
>Yes, this specific setting has pretty much always been like that.
extremely revisionist of you

>>713992376
why can't they just make every class viable

>>713989547
/tg/ has some of the worst mods on the entire site. Basically the entire board is generals, AI slop and wannabe content creators fishing for other people to do their job for them

>>713989781
>I'm about to GM for Impossible Landscapes
I wish you luck, my group finished it a few months ago(I was a player), and man, it was a fucking trip.
I do NOT envy the Handler tho, seemed like a nightmare to run.

>>713992329
>But they did
Obviously some developers got a bit too enthusiastic about their wank material, but show me where they made public comments specifically bragging about making their game "horny", like one of the developers of BG3 did

>>713989176
>Call of Cthulu or Delta Green
Omegabased
>any of the dozen World of Darkness rpgs
Omegacringe

>>713990479
>what is the Mercer Effect?
>what is the anachronistic inclusion of leftist modern LA culture in everything they touch?
Plus it's been accepted at this day and age that a lot of things about CR (yes even the first 2 seasons) were plastic. From fudged rolls, "St. Mercer" being ok with all kinds of player shit and giving leeways, fixed encounters, etc.

They're not getting called "theater kids" for no reason. They were here to tell a story first and fellate each other, gaming mechanics be bent about it. I mean it quickly became a fucking show business, what else is there to talk about about CR's "genuineness".
No go back to your teegee eceleb general, fap to his wife and her character and drop the kumbaya shit. This isn't the 10's anymore.

Gig's up, we're company now about making money and promoting ourselves.

>>713992181
>a good idea, on paper: remove all that bullshit. No spells, no bullshit, everyone is equal
Maybe that's better for balance but flattening everything out like that sounds boring as fuck

>>713969000 (OP)
The general obsession of rehashing the same tropes and things of the generic fantasy probably did more in terms of aesthetics, story, at least.

>>713991183
>"Critical role killed dnd" is something only retards think. They only have like a million subscribers
And you don't think that's enough to convince some executive that there's a new market to be pandered to?

>>713992965
4e had a shitload of distinction between classes, it was literally just
>noooo Wizards are supposed to be overpowered

>>713992965
Not him but pillars of eternity does an excellent job of implementing the idea of giving everybody castables on encounter. All mages get an aoe magic burst like a weaker fireball on top of magic missile spam while all fighters get "knock down" and accuracy or defense boosts. Everybody with a high enough athletics automatically unlock "second wind" which scales with athletics. Stealth is invisibility and is a stat not reliant on your dex but on your "stealth" stat. Dex isn't some magic ability that makes arrows hit harder either

>>713987679
...Now I kinda want to run a game where the macguffin cursed item is a wheelchair that binds one of the players into it, and the other players have to drag his ass up and down dungeon stairs and shit on their adventure

>>713992608
Thanks, bud. I kinda like preparing for something so ridiculously complicated, though. I can do it as one big project, then once I'm done, I can mostly just chill and enjoy playing with my friends afterwards. Having to do constant week-to-week prep wears on me sometimes, so getting it all out of the way at once can definitely be nice.
Naturally, I'm sure my players will find ways to go off the rails, but I've been improvising with this group long enough that we know how to make shit like that work.

>>713993349
PoE2 has phenomenal systems I think the game is really hurt by the open world format though

>>713992839
Don't be so quick to write off all of WoD. I had pretty similar thoughts at first, (and reading some of the modern VtM stuff will definitely make you want to die of second-hand embarrassment,) but then I had a brush with Hunter: The Reckoning. That shit is, thematically, a lot of what I want with a supernatural RPG. Just a bunch of regular joes figuring out whether or not the local hospital director is actually a bloodsucker (of course he is) and then planning how to kill him in his sleep.

>>713990479
>this big at three months
kinda wondering what she'll look like at 9...

>>713993349
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I never really liked fighters being given a bunch of fluff abilities as a class feature to make them more "interesting", I think they're fine just having high HP, good armor and being skilled with weapons. Having access to feats and skills in 3e was plenty
To be fair though, I'm thinking in terms of video games, where you're often controlling a whole party. Having nothing else to do but roll your thaco or whatever would be pretty boring in tabletop play

>>713993645
Yeah, I also enjoy running CoC/DG FAAAR more than D&D, and it's kind of a universal thing that there's more prep to begin with(prepping the mystery), but way less of a consistent grind.
Still, Impossible Landscapes is a god damn demon, so be ready for that, but I'm sure you'll handle it. Pic related was our conspiracy board by the end of it lmao.
Also, as a gift, use this at some point in your game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk-m3C3Bc5w&ab_channel=Jean420

>>713993446
one player once wanted to play a cripple. retconned that pretty fast into being able to limp wich gradually went to walking at normal speeds. i´m not even faulting him for it. its just not fun at all being that limited in your movement.

>>713994119
Ok yeah Hunter is actually really good, I just don't like all the other ones.
I MIGHT(emphasis on might) give Mage a try out of a sense of morbid curiosity, but Vampire and Werewolf just don't interest me at all.

My friends and I literally only play 4e when we play d&d

>>713994236
I guess it kind of comes down to the player's creativity doesn't it for how their fighter behaves

>>713969000 (OP)
> muh e-celebshittery is ruining my game
Retard. As long as you let corpos create games to check lists instead of being fun you will get slop.
Had it not been CR, it would have been someone else. You just failed to gatekeep.

>>713979546
>Primaris marines
I'm still waiting for this to be a Fabius Bile trick and Primaris were always heresy
> Female custodes
I dont know why people fucking seethe about this. It never happened, it would have never sold minis besides someone buying them for coomer reasons, and it was just some muh culture war bullshit content to make 40K fans look like "that guy" caricatures, and to be fair, the corpo won, retards actually sperged about it

>>713986821
If you want to play without theatre tards and don't have an old group lined up you pretty much have to go to OSR people, except redditors partially co-opted that term to include them so now the hardliners go by CAG. (well that or run it yourself and explicitly say what you're going for)

>>713983054
I'm gonna be honest, I hate when it's just a nomadic adventuring party without an Inn or Hub Town they can return to for downtime. If it's ALWAYS on the road, I check out fast.

>>713988452
>I dont think anons comprehend that wotc is the ONLY profitable branch of hasbro.
Because of MTG, not D&D.

>>713988603
Yeah, but the second I want to bring in a Warlock-like character with an Old Net AI in my eye to the Cyberpunk campaign, I'm told that can "Change the setting." That's the fucking point, I'm a player character, aren't I supposed to move the setting!?

>>713988452
>I dont think anons comprehend that wotc is the ONLY profitable branch of hasbro
(X) it's one of the least profitable branches of hasbro and why they tried so hard to push BG3 to try and convince hasbro not to axe them

I love laura bailey!

>>713969093
Isn't Critical Role made specifically for genre tourists?

>>713969093
The difference is that they were sincere back then. Everything now is through a thick veneer of irony. They can't write anything with genuine emotion because that would require too much vulnerability and humanity.

>>713997397
yes

>>713997276
I want to do her.

>>713989547
>>713992528
/tg/ has the worst mods on the site as of right now.
Not only do they protect e-celeb shit they're also heavily hostile to the OSR general and will angrily troll in there (usually about 2E being OSR or everything being OSR) and then hand out 3 day bans to anyone who tells them to fuck off or even just argues that 2E sucks balls.
The cunt is basically trying to kill off that general and it's very blatant.

>>713997629
/tg/ has always been an overrated board, but I can't imagine it's any worse than modern /co/mblr.

>>713997629
>2E sucks balls

>>713969093
>crpg were full of wacky bazinga humor before these guys were even born
That's not the issue. The problem is they singlehandedly changed DnD from being about going on perilous adventures with some light humor to keep the mood light, to wholesome scrungus slice of life shit. That's the entire aesthetic DnD has taken on as a result of Critical Role.

>>713997276
>her oc is a big titty half-elf
hmm...

>>713997992
>as a result of Critical Role.
do you not remember 3e?

>>713998021
>half-elf
Ehm...sweety.. it's heckin problematic!

>>713998123
3e was a better time. Drizzt clone Drow fags were unironically more tolerable than freakshit Tiefling tards. At least the former actually wanted to lean into the rp afforded to them by their race.

>>713995694
>As long as you let corpos create games to check lists instead of being fun you will get slop.
The people inspiring the check lists are also a contributing factor. They corpos can and do fuck up in any ways, but they can't fuck up their product to chase a new audience if that audience doesn't exist in the first place.

>>713998556
You think I'm talking about the players and not the creators of the game pushing the game to weirder and weirder people?

>>713997872
The TLDR of 2E is that it's an inferior version of 1E with cool settings (or more like setting ideas considering the shit execution of half of them) and absolutely garbage modules outside of a few Carl Sargent pieces.
But that's beside the point, it's not on-topic for that general at all. There's an aspergers retard shitting up /osr/ because they told him his houserules were retarde. He spent weeks trying to create another general /todd/ out of assmad and when that failed he started autistically chimping out in there once every other day and abuses his janny position to ban regular posters there. (just check the archived versions of those threads for all the deleted posts)

>>713997816
its about on par with /co/mblr
>make post that was totally innocent and no different from a post 10 years ago
>get banned
Ive been banned less on /a/ for calling people seamonkies and spics than I have just using nigger casually on /tg/ and getting a sitewide 3 day

>>713998768
Non weapon proficiencies were in 1e? maybe it is better

>>713969000 (OP)
NOT
VIDYA

>>713998849
Sounds obnoxious.
>Ive been banned less on /a/ for calling people seamonkies and spics than I have just using nigger casually on /tg/ and getting a sitewide 3 day
Sounds like the same type of thinskinned power hungry dipshits that mod for /vt/

>>713997629
for some reason the commander general got an unhinged lunatic who spent a solid two years attempting to kill the general and the dude had mod protection the entire time

>>713998849
>he makes threads
>on 4chan
>where mods ban you for no reason
>instead of just derailing threads to talk about what you want to talk about

>>713969000 (OP)
I like how you can tell Travis hates Matt Mercer.

>>713999302
>implying Im making threads on /tg/

>>713999376
>le trolled
>banned
lmao they're assmad

>>713992181
There's nothing broken about Vancian in actual Gygaxian D&D. They have component costs and spells go off later in combat, possibly even the next round, and if hit during that time it stops them going off at all.

>>713982696
>Daggerheart
What a shit name

>>713969093
name 3

>>713973523
Thanks for informing us of the birth of this problem

>>713999856
BG1 is metal as fuck and is quintessential late 90's kino and this is expounded by the fact that misc is canonically mentally retarded

>>713999072
They were introduced in some of the worst late-era supplements of 1E and the idea sucks balls.
In practice it means someone taking an NWP for needle-knitting or fire starting and another taking the concentration munchkin bullshit one.
Nevermind the fifty different NWP lists spread out across 2E complete books.
In good games you either know to do something, being an adventurer with levels, or you don't and go pay someone who does.

>>713999302
>>where mods ban you for no reason
>enter thread about funny drama about game studios
>make post about some korean game studio having to sack some insane rogue employee
>5 mins later Im banned
>look at banned post for what rule I violated
>apparently because I used g**k once in my greentext that was enough for a sitewide 3 day
>the ban was so fucking fast the mod or janny reporting it must have been in that thread
utterly bizarre how the mods on this site behave in regards to bans. The only time Ive been banned for using g**k was when /a/ had a rogue mod that would instaban you for insulting korea during the Solo Leveling anime airing

>>713982696
Why do they have to insert this stupid shit into everything?

>>714000031
Non weapon proficiencies are so much better than 3e+ though. Like you can actually craft and repair armor or as you said, start fires in a rainstorm. I think it opens basically an infinite pool of talents your character can be good at outside of killing stuff which adds immeasurably to the roleplay

Fuck ivory tower gaming, let me be a berserker that's also a chef or has intrinsic knowledge of woodworking and can create a raft in 10 minutes or something

>>714000145
>utterly bizarre how the mods on this site behave in regards to bans
Not really
They're overemotional seethelords and if you rustle their jimmies you get banned. Simple as.

>>714000145
They do it because you can instantly dodge the ban, they do it for free.

>>714000217
Because they aren't forced to, they just want to do it and they feel better about it

>>714000418
>Non weapon proficiencies are so much better than 3e+ though.
That's like saying chronic incontinence is better than a malignant tumor. I don't want either.
>I think it opens basically an infinite pool of talents
That lie outside the focus of the game and are just an excuse for irrelevant and/or munchkin bullshit.
As seen in literally every AD&D 2E game that allowed any NWPs outside of the core book ones.

Who in the ttrpg world is responsible for making DnD players think that a Nat 20 lets them do whatever they want?

>>713973991
Just....don't play with troon friends?
This can't be that hard right? /v/'s social circle is full of mentally well and based individuals, right?

>>714000217
because it upsets people like you, which makes them happy.

>>714000620
You don't think it's cool that you can have a player enter a dungeon with a blacksmithing background with no equipment and they end up leaving having hodgepodged some armor together ready to eat and fuck?

>>714000685
Introduced in AD&D 2E as an auto-hit, popularized by 3.5E retards as an I-win-button.

>>713969046
This. Literally who?

Tabletop RPGs should have gone the way of the dodo the millisecond video games were invented. The settings are cool but clearly shine far better in video game form. The mechanics are absolutely abysmal. Needing to roll 15 different dice 100 times just for a character to take a fucking step. Combat and situations that are supposed to be visceral and exciting boiled down to dice rolls and sterile mathematics. Talking in silly accents and acting like a complete theatre kid sperg at table with other theatre kid spergs. It's the most embarrassing thing in the world. Fundamentally there is no experience one could have with Vampire the Masquerade on the tabletop that would be as good as playing Bloodlines. Same is true for Forgotten Realms and BG2, Planescape with Torment, etc.

>>714000953
that's the selling point though. DnD was for kids that couldn't afford overpriced 0's pcs and had the draw of a tangible playing space like you were playing with a ouija board or something

>>714000775
Correct, it's not cool and is made for people who don't play by the actual rules of the game i.e. dungeons have ever-present danger and you don't get downtime to repair armor in them. Every thirty minutes you face the risk of a wandering monster.

>>714000773
I stopped being upset some time ago, I just think it makes them ridiculously stupid

>>714000953
>Needing to roll 15 different dice 100 times just for a character to take a fucking step.
There are no die rolls to move.
>Combat and situations that are supposed to be visceral and exciting boiled down to dice rolls and sterile mathematics.
Still exciting in the original game, precisely because it's fast-moving.
>Talking in silly accents and acting like a complete theatre kid sperg
Is nu-school shit.
>Fundamentally there is no experience one could have with Vampire the Masquerade on the tabletop that would be as good as playing Bloodlines. Same is true for Forgotten Realms and BG2, Planescape with Torment, etc.
Sure there is, you have an actual reactive setting present that isn't limited to 1-3 options.

>>714000739
>this somehow changes that the game is filled with gayshit

>>713969000 (OP)
No it hasn't. This shit only affected DnD shit CRPGs. It's just that half of /v/ thinks that the only games that are CRPGs are old-Bioware, Owlcat, Larian, and Infinity Engine games.

Basically people with shit taste.

>>714001167
A player using their blacksmithing proficiency to repair/equip their new armor before the scheduled 30 minute goblin patrol is rule breaking?

>>714001423
Just homebrew it out lol

>>714001627
>just homebrew a video game you didn't make

>>714001521
It's tension breaking if anything and armor doesn't break often enough to justify adding a bunch of extra skill systems on top of the game to begin with. Might as well add an anti-rust monster skill while at it.
NWPs suck in actual play no matter how much read-onlies jerk off to them. I've actually played with them tons of times and they never actually add anything good, it's always shit your character should be able to do anyway without any die rolls (like lighting a fire), shouldn't be able to do (like roll a die to ignore central combat mechanics) or irrelevant shit not even the DM bothers remembering.
99% of it can be replaced with X class knows this, "maybe, roll under your constitution" or "you can't so go pay a hireling/sage".

>>714000953
>Tabletop RPGs should have gone the way of the dodo the millisecond video games were invented
Video games are still very limited in scope, at least until AI can create them on the fly. Being able to tell an open-ended, collaborative story within a defined set of rules is still a unique experience that hasn't been replaced by technology.
I mean, it has its problems, sure. And if you don't like it, that's cool. But it's by no means obsolete.

>>713969000 (OP)
Is there any D&D youtube series that isn't as corporate/saccharine as Critical Role, preferably in a familiar setting and not some homebrew world?
I just want a comfy adventure to listen to at work.

>>714002038
Sounds more like you have bad DMs that can't create a situation where it's raining and you have to start a fire

>>714000928
> Gokai pic
based post, we can close the thread now

lol I listened to like 7 hours of this shit waiting for it to get good and instead it only got increasingly cringe. Imagine literally inviting women to D&D and thinking it would work out and not be cringe and Marvel tier trope filled garbage. But I really wanted to like it not gonna lie.

>>714002287
Guess every single 2E DM i've ever come across, and the actual advice in the books they give, are bad then.
NWPs blows.

>>713969000 (OP)
It's just the inevitable consequence of not gatekeeping your hobby, as shown by pic related.
D&D is currently at step 6/7; it has become mainstream and the rules of the game have been dumbed down and corrupted in order to satisfy the new players at the expense of the original fans.
Eventually it will become so pozzed that the core fanbase will become so disenfranchised that they leave (or go back to private groups playing older versions as seen in this thread), then due to that reduction of popularity the casuals will also abandon it and the whole thing will eventually implode.

>>714002451
>the books, the rules
Isn't a major part of being a DM looking at your player's skills and creating situations that they need to use them?

>>714002158
Ai presidents play dnd is fun

>>714002074
Yep. If anything D&D should have moved in the opposite direction of video games. It should be made to be as simple as possible only require one die. The less brain power that is devoted to technical bullshit the better. But of course you can imagine the whole industry basically dies when everyone realizes all you need is a regular die and a piece of paper to play and its better that way.

>>714002402
Was it the first campaign? Because it starts rough and gets a bit better once they kick out the guy playing the dragon born for cheating and going insane.

>>713999371
I don't get that impression, but I've only seen campaign 1 and a bit of campaign 2.

>>714002158
I can vouche for these two:
https://www.youtube.com/@thedungeondelver/streams (1E Greyhawk)
https://www.youtube.com/@OwenEdwardsBooks/streams (2E Settings like Dark Sun / Planescape / Spelljammer etc)
I've heard good things about Merciless Merchants (https://www.youtube.com/@TheMercilessMerchants-yx8pd/videos) and Bandit's Keep as well. Some people like 3d6dtl but they're snail's pace and spent three years exploring what most people could do in maybe a month or two of sessions.

>>714002707
No, a major part is setting up a game world with tons of situations to involve themselves in, dungeons to explore, loot to be had, cities to visit.
What's on the character sheet isn't terribly important.

>>714003405
haha, a fool's game then. no wonder it filled with faggots

>>714002814
When things get too simple they have no longevity. Long-term campaign play past 5th level is already near impossible running Basic D&D.

>>714002158
Glass Cannon. They don't play D&D though.

Fuck it, post TTRPG setting that are immune to normal faggotry. The fact normies won't play this because "muh slavery bad!" Is fucking hilarious.

>>714003901
Didn't Dark Sun have a normalfaggot reboot in 4E?

>>714003901
Thanks for proving once again that Dark Sunniggers don't play games, there's already plenty of slavery in something like FR.

What is it with modern TTRPGs and tranny shit? I was looking for a good mech game to play and the literal first page of the Lancer core book is about being inclusive and fag shit, and then I took a quick look at community stuff and literally everything was about rainbow flags and buttsex, nothing at all about the mechanics of a supposedly crunchy game
What attracts this kind of garbage?

>>714000953
>Sex should have gone the way of the dodo the millisecond porn was invented.

>>714004087
The only real change I read was that failing a constitution check against dehydration and sun exposure didn't kill you outright.

>>714004932
They're write-only products for the most part.
I don't know anyone who plays any of the editions with troon prefaces.

>>714004932
you have to understand that the TTRPG scene is incredibly small and the bigget guy on the block: wizards of the coast, is currently being wrung for every penny by its parent company hasbro. When you combine blackrock investing in them for pushing tranny shit, the fact that nerds are the easiest to trick into trooning out, and that troons are the easiest consoomerbase to milk, and you have a niche hobby completely heel turning to pander to them.

Rate my halfling barb idea (5.5e)
>world tree barb
>farmer background
>greataxe & maul only
>ancient tree in homeland needs a special magical fertilizer (or remedy if tree afflicted by blight)
>go adventuring to find special components to make said fertilizer (dragon poop, magical skele bones, magical crystal dust, etc.)
>takes every opportunity to show off strength when someone mentions his small size / atypical class

>>713977179
No, it's not.

>>714004932
its all about fantasy and imagination where whatever you say is true has to be true in the game. it doesn't work that way in real life so they fall back to games where they can pretend to have the control nature refuses to give them

>>713984475
Players don't hide their die, the GM can if he wants to. He's the one behind the scenes, after all.

>>714005474
Sounds fun. Just don't fetishize the scat hoarding.

>>714005474
Sounds interesting enough. Can halflings use greataxes and mauls, though?

>>714003901
Dark Sun would never be as popular because it's the only D&D campaign setting where survival plays a big role. As dangerous as they are in their own right cities in Dark Sun are preferable to taking your chances in the wasteland.

>>714006091
In 5.5e rules, heavy weapons got changed so any size can use them as long as you have 13+ STR

>>713985039
I need to go back and finish S1. I dropped it some 75 episodes in when the bard leaves the group and is replaced by the dude in expensive armor and robot butler

>>714006168
that dude has gotta be rich as fuck to afford that metal stuff

>>713974274
>Wight Reynolds
The real DND doodler of legend was Tony D and he did art for one setting.

I think I caught the Critical Role brainrot where I care more about the soap opera RP in D&D than the actual dice rolling and combat

>>713992091
I hope you lose an eye some shit you fucking faggot

>>714006168
>3.5 and 4e introduce travelling Jews to the setting, and ruin it
Why?

>>713992091
>goblins trying to make you kiss their feet
that's hot.
you talking about the shortstacks goblin girls?

>>713985039
>>713992908
California. Not even once. See what happened with itmejp's RollPlay too. It was doomed from the start despite TB and inControl just wanting to shitpost and have fun.
>>713970067
>Sam had to kneel to the motherly route and let this gobbo take an entire backseat which botched most of the dynamic with Liam's wizard
Liam must have went back to his terrible singing in Ergo Proxy's OP to cope. Such a dogwater show too.
>>713983678
The only reasonable (rare) board game enjoyers gave up on tabletop cafes and retreated their dwindling cliques to dedicated home setups. Why do you think wyrmwood tables are still in business? You'll otherwise have to coexist with MTG players and the smell they emit. Now is a good time to remind yourself that your favorite IPs, hobbies, media mediums, technologies, /out/ activities, etc are irreversibly raped and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>713969000 (OP)
Never heard of this video game before.

>>713974576
It was the time of MMORPGs, and they thought they could siphon off a few WoW players by making some rules more similar

>>714007047
No, it's some m*le goblin

>>713973417
dunno about that but divinity original sin 1 and 2 have a lot more quirky humor shit than bg3 does

Let me give you the real redpill, /v/: TTRPGs got "ruined" long before Critical Role even existed.

People usually concieve D&D as essentially a collaborative storytelling game where the GM is a kind of arbiter-entertainer directing the players through an epic "campaign" leading to a final confrontation with the big bad. This understanding of what a campaign represents is not, however, how Gygax, Arneson or any of the OGs understood the term.

D&D was at its conception a wargame, and it's from wargames that AD&D DMG explains the idea of a campaign: You have a vast map of a wilderness frontier with factions of different alignments scathered therein, dotted by dungeons to plunder for treasure so after a while the players can pay vast mercenary armies to conquer the region. Players are not only allowed, but in fact encouraged to have more than one character in the map, each doing its own thing perhaps continents away, with absolute agency to pursue whatever goals they may have. The world of the campaign is a living one, not ruled by a metaplot but by the actions and discoveries of the players.

D&D purpose was, essentially, to run living fantasy worlds, sandboxes, and to offer rules for all levels of play: from small heroes to vast fantasy hordes. It wasn't never a game about a central "party" eventually rising to confront some forced GM antagonist, but of many heroes and characters pursuing their own individual goals across a vast map. It was mostly with Dragonlance, and thanks to the influence of the fantasy novels of the 80s, that this changed to theater kid paradise.

>>713969182
Can't speak on 2 or 3 but I've played BG1 and it's totally farcical half the time. I mean, not that Forgotten Realms was ever a setting you could take very seriously anyway, but they don't even really try. It's not totally a joke but it does have a lot of dumb shit happening like Lord Foreshadow showing up to advertise new Bioware games, or the fact every companion has exactly one stupid gimmick as their sole character trait.

>>714006902
Combat is only part of D&D point: The full package is exploration, combat and wargaming.

That said, you are right that soap opera crap ruined much of it.

>>714007856
>DnD wasn't ruined in 1974, it was ruined in 1984!
So it was good for 10 years and shit for... 41?

>>713973991
Maybe I'm just autistic but an RPG being D&D kind of ruins it for me. They have multiple generic fantasy settings but they're all stuffed so full of contradictory lore and spells that would completely break them it's impossible to take it seriously.

The weirder stuff like Planescape is cool but I don't think D&D can really do straight medieval fantasy and it would be better if it didn't try. Giving more attention to the more gonzo stuff like space travel or the Gith creche that's supposedly in orbit in BG3 would be cooler.

>>713990479
You write like a faggot

>>713969000 (OP)
roleplaying games were never really meant to be played outside your group of friends

>>713983678
Bought that for a friend, box is huge

>>714008621
Not quoted but it's more like it was a slow death from 1984 onward. Up until 1984 that was the dominant playstyle and it didn't go away overnight just because TSR started moving away from it.

>>713992181
I don't get why they didn't take casting time with them from 2e to 3rd, just make every spell cost a certain number of iniative points and anyone who smacks the wizard in the face during that time forces him to make a concentration roll or fuck up. it's such a simple system.

>>714008664
The gonzo shit is boring as fuck. Just look at BG3, who really cares about the illithids as presented in that game? Faggots into beastiality that's who.
Mind Flayers were closer to horror monsters in the original game and worked much better then. Even back in NWN1's expansions you could see them handle it better.
Gygax was also hyper-detail minded when it came to that setting stuff and wrote out that a) Wizards were rare in an already population scarce setting, b) were secretive and very unwilling to share magic and c) magic came at a cost.

>>714010084
Because late 2E and 3E are cargo cult systems made by people who didn't really get what D&D was about.
It's not even that hard to tell.

>>713969000 (OP)
>>713969093
>>713997992
its entirely dm/player choice how they play it. you have no argument.

>>714008621
It was a gradual change.

See, the thing about D&D is that initially Gygax and Arneson players were mostly wargamers: While the game introduced many new things, there was common understanding in regards to progression and how a campaign worked. As D&D became more and more popular, people with no knowledge or background on the hobby started picking up the manuals and running it in many different styles, and theater kid mode slowly became dominant after a while.

It didn't helped that even the fictions that inspired D&D got slowly forgotten: The pulp heroes and adventures of Appendix N, all Gygax inspirations, were replaced by a deluge of bad Tolkien imitators during the 80s and the 90s. The framework of what a fantasy adventure should look like mutated completely.

>>714008894
And you take it up the ass like a faggot.

>>713969000 (OP)
How so?

>>713969178
>your games ALWAYS pandered to my extremist political ideology
I'm yet to see a game that panders to my anarchist believes, certainly not a fantasy one.

To anyone who may find it interesting:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U3hUXFH-y-A

https://harbingergames.blogspot.com/?m=1

That's an interview and the blog of a dude that has been running a continuous AD&D campaign for 45 years now. Besides the duration alone, it's an excellent example of a game run by-the-book with little to no theater kid bullshit, as a sandbox world for players to explore and conquer.

>>714010584
I'm sure pajeet AI will enable people with down syndrome to code a video game one day

>>713974512
If it was scripted you'd think they would trim down the neverending shopping/bathing episodes. You could see the light leave Matt's eyes every time they went on some retarded detour in season 2

>>714007856
wasn't it white wolf that started the trend with their storyteller system encouraging narrative play and invited all of the gay theater kids that eventually led to the current state of tabletop rpgs?

>>714015038
Nah, Cthulhu and arguably even Traveller are also storyfag systems.