Thread 714096967 - /v/ [Archived: 644 hours ago]

Anonymous
6/30/2025, 7:49:30 PM No.714096967
Villains
Villains
md5: 9ea8ae3ec8e60a89a967107cb9f32790🔍
Whats wrong with villains in games who are evil for the sake of being evil?
Replies: >>714097876 >>714098312 >>714098454 >>714098942 >>714099384 >>714099724 >>714100067 >>714100853 >>714103285 >>714104124 >>714104542 >>714104839 >>714106572 >>714106718
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 7:59:00 PM No.714097730
Nothing if they’re entertaining.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:00:55 PM No.714097876
>>714096967 (OP)
Sauron did have deeper reasons than just being evil
He was autismus maximus and wanted everything ordered instead of all the chaotic mess that free people bring
Replies: >>714098454 >>714098845 >>714104475
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:05:01 PM No.714098196
>"I coveted that wind, I suppose."
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:06:38 PM No.714098312
>>714096967 (OP)
What if the protags are queer diverse liberal art students and the villain is a straight white male who's racist and sexist?
Replies: >>714098454
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:08:24 PM No.714098454
>>714097876
Sauron being a blight upon middle earth because he was having an autistic fit, is the funniest way to explain it I've ever heard.
>>714098312
wow what an idea! are you a dev at sony?
>>714096967 (OP)
Palpy is just straight up evil and loving it, gotta love the guy.
Replies: >>714099051 >>714103938
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:13:25 PM No.714098845
>>714097876
Thing is Sauron was also Morgoths protege and his war-effort destroyed swaths of Middle-Earth and killed millions he wanted to rule over. Saruman himself would have kept strip mining and chopping down trees, eventually Isengard would be emitting smog and polluting everything around it.
Replies: >>714102863
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:14:33 PM No.714098942
hq720
hq720
md5: 5d058af12e4a40740b80c1cf509d9c84🔍
>>714096967 (OP)
Depends entirely on how great their evil laugh(tm) is.

Bowser KINDA works because he is cool as a dad, also you know he mating presses Peach on the regular which is pretty based.

Ganondorf on the other hand is JUST a piece of shit, which makes him great. He has zero redeeming factors other than an endless lust for power. He'd get along GREAT with Palpi. And when he's about to lose he has a maximum temper tantrum by basically committing suicide but becoming REALLY powerful in return JUST to kill you. Very much the type that goes "If I can't rule the world then let the world burn"
https://youtu.be/coDAn2_7_5A

The villains of the Xenoblade games tend to very much be "evil for the sake of it", too. Klaus in XC1 is just your totalitarian "I AM THE GOD OF THIS WORLD, I DECIDE WHO LIVES OR DIES!". Malos was pure Nihilism (the cringe kind) and Z was just... he literally did it for shits and giggles quote: "I do it because it amuses me".
Replies: >>714104390 >>714104987
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:15:46 PM No.714099051
>>714098454
and it's basically correct, Sauron was treating Middle Earth like it was his personal box of legos or miniature train set and the free people were all those annoying rugrats rearranging his god damn stuff
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:20:25 PM No.714099384
>>714096967 (OP)
Sauron was betrayed and rightfully sought vengance.

Palpy wanted to unify the galaxy to prepare for a university scale catastrophe that will wipe it all out.

Both did nothing wrong.

Source: my ass
Replies: >>714100808 >>714101737 >>714104619
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:24:21 PM No.714099724
>>714096967 (OP)
They’re fine if the execution is solid and they’re competent antagonists who pose a genuine threat to the heroes. Both Sauron and Sidious are executed exceptionally well, so they’ve become iconic as a result.

It’s only lame if it feels like they’re a Saturday morning cartoon kids show villain.
Replies: >>714100631
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:29:06 PM No.714100067
>>714096967 (OP)
a villain only needs to be complex if the story calls for it. if a game doesn't rely on the story, motivations don't matter. in a stoy driven game it at least needs to be entertaining if not compelling
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:36:39 PM No.714100631
>>714099724
villains just need to be entertaining, several saturday morning cartoons had memorable villains because they were entertaining
Replies: >>714101068
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:37:47 PM No.714100708
1436616710328
1436616710328
md5: 5a2608aed789142d7aa327ba1ccae46f🔍
one must really appreciate how Tolkien had the fucking balls to make an antagonist you never even see, has maybe two lines of dialogue spoken through a game of telephone and is not even met by any but the most lowly and untrustworthy of the characters and still is an overwhelming evil presence and iconic villain. they'll never be another like him.
Replies: >>714101086 >>714101338 >>714103482
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:39:06 PM No.714100808
>>714099384
NOOO YOURE RUINING THESE VILLIANS FOR MY AUTISTIC ASS.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:39:54 PM No.714100853
>>714096967 (OP)
It's realistic. Evil people are born evil and they'll never change no matter what.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:42:40 PM No.714101068
Zurg
Zurg
md5: 1a00a2d45b0bc2eb499b0fe3b9ef7d76🔍
>>714100631
My favorite is a villain who can balance comedic timing and execution of their evil plans and abilities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEn-W7OBuIo
Replies: >>714101175
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:42:56 PM No.714101086
>>714100708
even better still, as terrifying as he is, he's just the 2nd man to an even more evil, more powerful guy who already got whacked.

which is a sort of Theme of LoTR, by the time of the story, all the most important things already happened, everything is a lesser version of its grander self.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:44:04 PM No.714101175
>>714101068
Eggman is like this, the Comic version that is.

though Comic Eggman is.. well its really fucking evil, especially jarring for the setting.
Replies: >>714101657
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:46:24 PM No.714101338
>>714100708
The shadowy, unseen puppet master behind the scenes is an underrated villain archetype.

It seems like every villain nowadays has to have some kind of personal connection/rivalry with the protagonist. Sometimes though, all you need is someone you just get hints about throughout the story, and don’t even meet properly until the third act. For a vidya example, look at Kingdom Hearts. The main antagonist of the first game gets one scene near the beginning of the game where he’s just some mysterious guy in a hood, and is then is never seen again until he shows up in the second last world. So little screen time, and yet he’s one of the most iconic vidya villains ever.
Replies: >>714101527 >>714102025
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:48:48 PM No.714101527
>>714101338
>see Valkyrie Profile villain

on KH , it helps he was voiced by BILLY ZANE and ate the entire fucking scenery.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:50:27 PM No.714101657
>>714101175
I don't know much about the comics but game Eggman tortured Sonic for like...a year or something? And then hes cracking planets or unleashing eldritch gods or assailing entire nations.
Replies: >>714102085 >>714102316
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:51:24 PM No.714101737
>>714099384
>Sauron was betrayed and rightfully sought vengance.
...No he wasn't.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:54:33 PM No.714102025
>>714101338
that said if you're not competent at writing a villain like that you can run into the whole "what did they actually "do" sort of issue where the puppetmaster villain is the villain because people keep saying they are

Sauron actually has a constant oppressive presence throughout the entire story, in large part through the presence of the Ring, but there's also other ways
Part of what also helps is that aside from the Witch King, the Ring Wraiths aren't really written as characters in their own right, they're the fingers of Sauron, his talons reaching deep into otherwise safe territory

Then there's the corruptive influence he has, Saruman, Denethor, even the reduced power of the Elves or flat out the lands themselves being warped by his touch

And course the final trap that LotR avoids is to have a hypercompetent minion overshadow him, don't get me wrong he actually has competent underlings, Witch King is a very capable military leader in the book at least, but he doesn't overshadow Sauron
Replies: >>714102526
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:55:23 PM No.714102085
>>714101657
anon, game Eggman is a saint compared to Archie Eggman.

Archie Eggman is cruel on a level that is honestly, impressive.

he gleefully admits he could have used Thermobaric weaponry on Sonic and his pals at any time, but enjoyed slowly torturing them and turning their loved ones into robots and letting them win battles that didn't matter, because he had already conquered the entire planet, and roboticized some 90% of it.

he once put a bomb in a little girl, because an new recruit joined his little evil people club and her stipulation was that he cure of an affliction, which he did not, all he did was stabalize it so she'd live, but be in horrible pain, and basically stated he COULD cure her, but he won't, just to fuck with her and keep her in line.

literally the only thing holding him back is his insanity, Sonic and Crew regularly get wallopped and lose big when he's briefly sane.
Replies: >>714102237
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:57:13 PM No.714102237
>>714102085
reminds me a bit of Transformers honestly
comic Shockwave is on a completely different level than any other incarnation
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 8:58:15 PM No.714102316
which-eggman-scares-you-more-v0-0xe7c5gh3wvc1
which-eggman-scares-you-more-v0-0xe7c5gh3wvc1
md5: af451659aab37525a745367a8df8e0b5🔍
>>714101657
Comic Eggman is a horror villain where you sometimes forget he's a barely sane, barely held together monster who will do anything, to anyone, for any reason.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:01:03 PM No.714102526
>>714102025
Technically, a puppet master always “does” something because they’re the brains behind the entire operation. Those lackeys all answer to them.

The only way I feel you can to a puppet master badly is if they literally come out of nowhere, and you have no idea who they are until the final confrontation. You need some kind of foreshadowing at the very least, no matter how subtle.
Replies: >>714102908
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:05:30 PM No.714102863
>>714098845
>Sauron just wanted to play Factorio in peace
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:06:06 PM No.714102908
>>714102526
something I dislike heavily about puppetmaster villains is writing them where they retroactively win through contrived means
like your saturday morning cartoon where the entire episode the heroes win, and then suddenly in the last 30 seconds the villain says something like "actually because you did all of this while the moon was in it's second quadrant and didn't say 'shabalabaloo' I can now complete an ancient ritual nobody has ever heard of before and I still win"
Or when the series intentionally obscures the villain's goals just so they can arbitrarily say that the villain came super close to achieving them completely unearned

LotR in this has the actual balls to put Sauron's goals out in the open very early on, and every single plot of Sauron that is discovered along the way fits within said overall goals
There's no curveballs, no random assets that come out of nowhere just to arbitrarily rob the heroes of a well earned victory
Replies: >>714103318 >>714103473 >>714103752
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:11:16 PM No.714103285
>>714096967 (OP)
The writer making them look uncool and thus the protagonist less cool for defeating them
Typically because pure evil villains are allegories for something real that the writer hates and doesn't want to accidentally glorify. Rorschach from Watchmen is a good example of this
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:11:37 PM No.714103318
636842_in_1000x1000
636842_in_1000x1000
md5: 777d15ea76891dc25a7420f756c06df7🔍
>>714102908
Fandaniel is a good one.

he's very open that he wants everyone to die, you just don't know how he's going to do it, and the fact he wants you to kill Zodiark makes perfect sense, in retrospect, simply because the cast had no idea what Zodiark was even doing.
Replies: >>714104507
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:13:33 PM No.714103473
>>714102908
I think that’s just a trap amateur writers fall into with plot twists in general.

Sometimes though writers will throw plot twists at you just to keep the story from going stale and hold your attention for longer. A plot twist for a plot twist’s sake is bad. An actual good plot twist recontextualises the information we already know, rather than completely invalidating that info.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:13:36 PM No.714103482
>>714100708
>And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dûr was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung.

>From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain.

>‘The realm of Sauron is ended!’ said Gandalf. ‘The Ring-bearer has fulfilled his Quest.’ And as the Captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell.
Replies: >>714104074
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:16:39 PM No.714103752
>>714102908
Something that people forget is Sauron is practically winning by the time FOTR starts. Hes built up entire armies and is beginning his final assault on a realm thats diminished in population, culture, strength and dignity. Gondor was losing morale and the elves in Mirkwood or Lothlorien were diminished. So even if they were to toss the ring into a 8000 foot chasm or in the ocean somewhere he still wins and by some inexplicable twist of fate, it ends up in his possession anyways.
Replies: >>714105385
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:18:55 PM No.714103938
>>714098454
Pulp had reasonable ideas about how corrupt the jedi were in their willingness to do nothing but suppress their own heritage in order to appease some galactic bureaucracy. He just happened to take a full sip of that Sith juice because everybody else was trying their best to vilify the force as some sort of containable entity when it is an inevitability of equilibrium. The Jedi had it too good for too long, and it eventually balanced itself out.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:20:14 PM No.714104074
>>714103482
which really highlights how important it was that Gandalf and Elrond knew the task was set, to destroy it.

and thankful everyone, Gandalf and everyone else, should be, of the vast heroics of Sam and Frodo, especially Sam, who is one of the most steadfast, heroic characters ever put into a book.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:20:47 PM No.714104124
01928336917293
01928336917293
md5: 7f11d4c8c796dadb9694556d9951792f🔍
>>714096967 (OP)
Evil bastards with no redeemable qualities are more realistic. Trying to make them sympathetic is lame and gay.
Replies: >>714104910
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:23:43 PM No.714104390
>>714098942
I really wish Xenoblade wasn't solely played by tendies, what a terrible post
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:25:01 PM No.714104475
>>714097876
>claims to want order
>creates a belligerent mutt race to fight for this endeavor
We need more retarded villains
Replies: >>714105132
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:25:23 PM No.714104507
>>714103318
>Shows up possessing a dead guy
>Acts like Zeno's insane court jester. No one takes him seriously
>Turns into a primal the story has been hyping up for a decade
>Defeat primal
>Actually that was my 4D chess
Fandaniel is shit and exactly what this anon is describing. They were trying way to hard to make another Kefka
Replies: >>714104675
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:25:51 PM No.714104542
>>714096967 (OP)
it's a judeo christian simplification world view.
Replies: >>714105108
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:26:51 PM No.714104619
>>714099384
lol nah Sidious was just the final phase of a 1000 year plan. Sauron wasnt betrayed if anything he betrays Melkor by pursuing his own vision for Arda. Melkor wants it dead, Sauron enjoys being there
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:27:46 PM No.714104675
>>714104507
he isn't anything like kefka, the whacky shit was all an act to make the cast not take him seriously.

as the story literally shows you his entire backstory POST death, you find out the truth.

also we are told explicitly that Zodiark stopped the Final Days, and you kill it, it was obvious what he was doing.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:29:56 PM No.714104839
>>714096967 (OP)
They are bad, and wrong
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:30:56 PM No.714104910
>>714104124
yeah
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:31:57 PM No.714104987
>>714098942
I don't even remember Z. man, XB3 sucked arse
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:33:23 PM No.714105108
>>714104542
>now Ultron, that’s a bad guy i could make a video essay about :)
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:33:40 PM No.714105132
>>714104475
Stop being antisemitic
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:37:07 PM No.714105385
>>714103752
the battle for Minas Tirith is a massive showcase of just how elaborate Sauron's plans were
The movie doesn't highlight it properly but in the book it isn't just one single plan, he has failsafes upon failsafes built into every single thing he does, and given the information available to him, every single one of his plans was plotted perfectly

In the movie the arrival of the Rohirrim is treated as a grand surprise, but in the book Sauron actively planned for that event, the Witch King had a secondary force split off and block the most direct route to Minas Tirith, with a force large enough that even if the forces of Rohan broke through it would delay them enough that they would arrive long after the siege ended
He simply couldn't have accounted for the wild men to set aside their dislike for Gondor and Rohan and guide them through an unknown path, because Sauron himself would have denied it out of spite

But even then, with that bypassed he STILL had a failsafe in the form of the corsairs which if they arrived would have still turned the battle into his favor, and again these corsairs were undone in a way Sauron could not account for what so ever, Aragorn managing to make a supernaturally hard journey to gather the dead men in time to not just lift his blockade but actively commandeer the ships and fill them with enough troops to turn the tide of battle

Also the fact that he frames the siege of Minas Tirith as a siege is again, a brilliant move on Sauron's part, because it tricked Denethor into preparing for a prolonged siege (which mind you in the book he prepares with the utmost competence for, book Denethor is genuinely a good leader), and then upon arrival, he successfully manages to breach Minas Tirith's gate in a ridiculously fast timespan

And even on top of all of this literal divine intervention was necessary to blow away the dark clouds he conjured and to kill the Witch King, which would have likely tipped the scales
Replies: >>714105567
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:39:36 PM No.714105567
>>714105385
And even, on top of all of this, the defeat at Minas Tirith is not in fact a crippling defeat
Sauron still manages to inflict enough damage and keep enough troops in reserve that he knows that when he lands the second blow, he will win
And it's not just him saying that, Aragorn admits as much, if it was a conventional war, without the ring being a factor, even despite the immense heroic effort to win the siege of Minas Tirith, even with divine intervention on their side it still would not have mattered in the long run

It's something LotR does incredibly well: it allows BOTH sides to be competent, and as a result every victory feels earned
Replies: >>714105920 >>714106493
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:44:29 PM No.714105920
c474f79f-samwise-gamgee
c474f79f-samwise-gamgee
md5: cabc97aba223467114b9a478961dd00c🔍
>>714105567
>Shoulda thought more of the little guy, fucker!
Replies: >>714106274
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:49:09 PM No.714106274
>>714105920
even then Sauron's assessment that nobody had the willpower to destroy the ring was correct
Neither Frodo nor Sam could have willingly destroyed it
Replies: >>714106467
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:51:27 PM No.714106467
>>714106274
I mean it didn't matter, their combined will was enough, sure it was Gollum who tipped it over, but no one else could have ever gotten it that close for it to be possible.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:51:53 PM No.714106493
>>714105567
>it allows BOTH sides to be competent
Why are modern writers so bad at this?
Replies: >>714106774
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:52:21 PM No.714106519
nothing if they are fun
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:52:56 PM No.714106572
Peter_Thiel_2014_by_Heisenberg_Media
Peter_Thiel_2014_by_Heisenberg_Media
md5: 67c1eaa0943401ac3697ab2ebf36b156🔍
>>714096967 (OP)
Nothing. They are actually one of the few types of believable VILLAINS, rather than just antagonists.
Replies: >>714106816
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:54:37 PM No.714106718
>>714096967 (OP)
felt to discriminatory to company heads
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:55:26 PM No.714106774
>>714106493
>Why are modern writers so bad at this?
Their literacy and educational degrees consist in watching Marvel and Star Wars.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:56:03 PM No.714106816
>>714106572
this guy is comically evil.

it isn't even about political disagreements that I say this.
Anonymous
6/30/2025, 9:56:09 PM No.714106823
the_hobbit_poster_socamom
the_hobbit_poster_socamom
md5: c47faf95ed7422435b0f62ab61b5abf0🔍
So why do people hate The Hobbit movies more than 'It's too long?'

My only complaints were Legolas getting NTR'd with the OC elf girl, and Thorin instantly becoming a total asshole the moment he even got near the Lonely Mountain, you'd think that gold madness would take some time to set in.