Thread 714126452

Just finished this. What's the /v/ consensus? Also which sibling was in the right?

Imo both were wrong. The ideal situation would be Maelle and her mother being mature enough to realize they shouldn't stay in the canvas any longer and just leave, wiping out the painted Verso and thus allowing Verso's world to exist without issues or interference (if possible).

In any case, I think the narrative absolutely stumbles in the 3rd act. Some might like the twist of "it's all fake", so might not, but the issue is what comes after.

We spent 80% of the game caring about Lumiere and the struggle of the Expedition, and then suddenly the story acts as if they don't exist. We don't get to see their reactions to not being real and instead playthings for the Dessandres. The game doesn't even properly explore their "humanity" or free will or consciousness, instead making an abrupt switch to melodrama between Maelle's desire to live in the fairytale world, and fakeVerso's desire to stop her from killing herself and making the real Verso suffer as well.

No one even cares what the Lumierians want. In fact in Maelle's ending it almost feels like she's mind controlling them or repainted them to be exactly like she wanted which raises questions about how human they were in the first place.

>what's le consensus le please tell me what to think, o great hivemind!
go back

>>714126452 (OP)
I liked it but yeah they definitely dropped the ball with the lumierians hard. They literally don't give a flying fuck about them
Even when maelle awakened her paintress powers, she does not revive gustave. You know, gustave? That father figure she was mourning that whole time? Who gives a shit about him, right?

Also the plot point of the gommage doesn't make any sense at all, if aline was protecting them from renior, then why was she thanosing them at all? Its not a mercy when renior is shown to not really care about them and only killed expeditioners to stop them from interfering.

>>714126452 (OP)
>We don't get to see their reactions to not being real
they make comments and ask about the outside world and stuff. idk what you even mean.
>No one even cares what the Lumierians want.
except the lumierians and maelle (albeit for selfish reasons)
>In fact in Maelle's ending it almost feels like she's mind controlling them or repainted them to be exactly like she wanted
congratulations
>about how human they were in the first place.
they're not humans. they're painted. what you mean is "do they have a soul" and "do they have free will" and the answer to both is only
>kinda
or
>maybe

>>714128017
>Even when maelle awakened her paintress powers, she does not revive gustave.
She does revive gustave if you let her kill herself. she doesn't have enough mana/power to do it any earlier than she does.
>if aline was protecting them from renior, then why was she thanosing them at all?
She doesn't kill lumerians, she protects them.
renior is stealing mana. every year aline gets weaker and has to give up the older generation of lumerians.

>>714128740
>she does revive gustave
Is this the other ending?
I picked verso at the end, and I don't remember any choice regarding giving maelle's life up

>>714128936
>Is this the other ending?
yep. go watch it on youtube. or if you haven't done too much after beating the game you can reload the save before you made a choice and make the other choice.

>>714129017
I think I might just go back and make the other choice, I beat the game just yesterday and did all of the side content (except simon, fuck that)
Kind of wish I didn't but it was also really funny absolutely bitch slapping renior on the first turn

>>714126452 (OP)
Good game, great story. Felt like the endings very much took a side though, so much that it really dulled any sense of nuance present in the latter half, which I would say is its main flaw

>>714126452 (OP)
didn’t you just finish this again yesterday?

>>714126452 (OP)
>What's the /v/ consensus?

Verso's ending is the obvious choice, Maelle is crazy, and we love Lune.
There, I saved you months of /v/ discussion.

>>714129834
but I love Sciel, not Lune!

>>714129882
sciel has ugly hair and a man jaw

>>714130178
And she's a whore who does ons even though she plans to "repaint" her husband

>>714129716
Different bread prolly anon. Do you have the link? I missed all the discussion last months and looking to talk about it

Cannon good ending is verso gets gormmaged and Gustave comes back and makes a deal with Renoir to make Alicia leave the painting from time to time.

>>714128740
>what you mean is "do they have a soul" and "do they have free will" and the answer to both is only "kinda" or "maybe"

This really doesn't work in any kind of narrative though. You can't ask players to go through a long adventure with characters and then say "ummm actually they're just philosophical zombies or illusory egregores". Most players simply won't buy it by virtue of having gotten to know and like these dudes. Which is probably why the games "twist" has left some people with really mixed feelings and "total painter death" is a common sentiment.

>>714126452 (OP)
it was good
The story and setting you see in act 1 and 2 are runded by the subversion is act 3
Verso

>>714126452 (OP)
Yes, the entire family was wrong on how to do something you the player wants because this is a tragedy not an epic/hero's tale. The entire game focused on loss and the ending was how to approach grief as either an unhealthy need to cling to memories or to let go and move on.

Most people that say "wow, this story is amazing" are most likely just remembering act 3 where Act 1 and 2 are kind of slogs especially the optional camp stories.

The good ending became permanently out of reach the moment Verso let Gustave die. Gustave was the one person who could have made Maelle come to her senses, and maybe even Renoir too.

E33 is what happens when a story's main character dies too early: Only bittersweet resolutions are possible

>>714126452 (OP)
>its all fake
Its not and they are real, if you found out God was running us on a super computer, youre still real, just not in the way you expected.

>>714130696
Shes the dedicated toy for the expedition obviously, cant have them living their last year without some fun here and there. Its all part of her job

Gustave wouldn't accomplish shit

>>714130696
He died years ago and she found out about that after

>>714136463
Gustave is the reason the lumina mechanic exists, every pervious expedition had to make due with pictos alone

>>714126452 (OP)
sequel

>>714126452 (OP)
You know i keep wondering how they plan to handle the twist in the sequel? Do they just say fuck it and keep it revealed from the get go and trailers, retroactively ruining the twist in this game for anyone playing it in the future? Do they do the same twist a second time making it so that whatever game you play first will be the one that reveals the painting worlds? Are they going to expand on the writers and other mediums hinted at like music? Do they have their own worlds? Is clea going to be involved?

Anybody else noticing the pattern in this thread? Posts trying to go against the game seem to be written in extremely poor English. Posts in favor of the game seem capable of speaking like a real person. Coincidence?

>>714126452 (OP)
>No one even cares what the Lumierians want.
They are all already dead in Act 3. People seem to constantly forget that the genocide has already happened and Maelle's ending isn't magically undoing what Renoir did. She repaints everyone to her own will and ability, the gestrals reincarnation is a perfect allegory for how it works; they might be back but they aren't the same because their memories aren't the same (since they will completely rely on what Maelle remembers/knows about them). Sciel and Lune are the only exceptions as she could grasp their essence when they gommaged unlike literally everyone else, including Gustave who didn't even gommage in the first place and they make it very clear that she enforces her will on Verso against his will. The question of if they are real or not also doesn't matter because again, the genocide has already happened so the question is what you will do from there and the logical choice is to have Alicia move the fuck on and stop the cycle of grief instead of letting her repeat the cycle and cause even more suffering for all the people she repaints once Renoir comes back to finish the job either before Alicia dies or after she dies. Or Clea does it.

>>714129475
For what it’s worth the parts of act 3 that is the story route is bitch made even if you don’t do the side content.

>>714128017
>she does not revive gustave. You know, gustave? That father figure she was mourning that whole time? Who gives a shit about him, right?
I think they say she can only revive those killed by necrons but I could be wrong

>>714126452 (OP)
I agree with you about a lacking third part in the story. This is why the game didn't reach the heights of the good FF games. The story deviates to a shitty family soap opera instead of Lumiére's battle for survival. The first two acts are some of the best in any RPG though.

>>714126452 (OP)
It's a 6/10.
7 if i'm being generous.

>>714137915
She can revive Lune/Sciel because they were gommaged and she grabbed their essence before leaving Lumiere. Basically if its erased she can restore it if done quickly. Dead is dead though. Only way to" bring back" dead is to paint a new version like Verso.

>>714137565
>Maelle's ending isn't magically undoing what Renoir did
Actually she does literally undo it with her magical painting powers. Pay attention to the narrative

>the gestrals reincarnation is a perfect allegory for how it works

No, devs have already confirmed it works completely differently for gestrals and humans, completely different rules for them.

If you had even an ounce of brain, you'd realize your false narrative makes no sense and cant explain things we see in the story.

>Sciel and Lune are the only exceptions as she could grasp their essence

Once again you dont even know what the words mean. She didnt "grasp their essence", she took their chroma. All she needs to bring people back is their chroma, that's all. The only ppl she can't bring back are those killed by nevrons.

How the fuck do you think she brought back Pierre that she never knew and never met, you retarded baboon?
>she enforces her will on Verso against his will.

So you deny that she can bring people back, which she literally said she will do, but at the same time invent imaginary powers that no painter ever had? She isnt controling anyone and she can't. Kys you dont understand anything and can't grapple with the most basic philosophical questions.

>>714139581
I disagree with almost everything you said except the ending. I don't see why people assume Alicia is controlling Verso in a literal mind control sense. Isn't it stated Clea is literally the only one of them capable of painting over another's creation?

>>714139849
You disagree that gestrals and humans have different rules to them and what is said about them doesnt apply? Which literally was confirmed by devs?

You disagree that she took their chroma and that she can bring people back if she controls the chroma in the canvas, which she said she would do?

Like what do you disagree with?

And yes Clea is the only one who can paint over a creation and even then it was an abomination that killed herself.

>>714139581
>invent imaginary powers that no painter ever had?

Yeah anon, there is no point in the game where a character, say, a boss, ever displays powers that can directly affect the minds of Painted People, right? Cmon now

>>714140051
Grasp at whatever straw you want to rationalize your dogshit brainlet interpretation.

>>714140012
Stop posting like that. Can you link or point me in the direction where they said that? She referred to the other expeditioners as "old chroma" implying the only reason she could save Sciel/Lune being she grabbed their chroma shortly after it was dispersed.

>>714140180
>looking at the things that happen in the game is grasping at straws now

>>714140187
She referred to expeditioners killed by nevrons as "old chroma", and she said she can't bring people back at the moment because Renoir is controlling all the chroma in the painting, so they need to defeat him to be able to bring more people back.
There is nothing about being able to bring back people depending on how dispersed they are or not.

Verso literally writes in his journal how Aline will bring Julie back after they win the war. Didnt seem like he was concerned about chroma being too dispersed or too old.

>>714140187
spoonfeeding ... https://youtu.be/bus8mQ678ug?t=174

>>714126452 (OP)
>Old friend, you've traveled miles, spinning in circles
>Your blind eyes on the dial, stripping out colors
>But it's time to say goodbye
>Until next life

>>714140552
You literally link to a video that shows that having chroma alone cant bring the people back. You need to know their essence, verso teaches this to her in the very same video.

Pierre isnt pierre because maelle has no idea who that is, she has no idea of his essences especially since he died when she was 9. its just a very rough caricature that she creates. They even make a point of showing that maelle didnt really know anyone from lumiere.

>Failed painter chooses genocide
Verso's ending is the Hitler ending

>>714139581
I agree with you but you're wrong on you're last point. Clea brainwashed her counterpart into becoming a nevron factory. However Clea is also the only one that is capable of doing this.

>>714142402
She painted over her, but she is not using jedi remote control that is implied by the other dorks, clea isnt directly puppeting her.

>>714126452 (OP)
I agree with the OP, nothing else to say here.
Painted Alicia a cutie. She and her father were treated like dogs and nobody cared.

>>714126452 (OP)
>We spent 80% of the game caring about Lumiere and the struggle of the Expedition, and then suddenly the story acts as if they don't exist. We don't get to see their reactions to not being real and instead playthings for the Dessandres. The game doesn't even properly explore their "humanity" or free will or consciousness, instead making an abrupt switch to melodrama between Maelle's desire to live in the fairytale world, and fakeVerso's desire to stop her from killing herself and making the real Verso suffer as well.
This was the point of the first half of the game. The player would otherwise never sympathize with Maelle because the player is too detached from the game to identify with "fake" people. The direction they took allowed them to put the player in Alicia's shoes. The question of whether they have free will or personhood or whatever is irrelevant to all the characters involved.
With that said, Alicia doesn't care about the Lumierians, she only cares about herself and the life that she found in the canvas. She fell in love with the world Verso created and decided to co-opt it for herself, just like her mom did. The game leaves it to the player to distinguish Alicia's desires from their own attachment to Lumiere.

>>714137256
Congrats anon you've noticed that 4chan's demographics at some point in the last decade became mostly bots and/or humans who are so irrelevantly incapable of intelligent conversation they're biological bots all the same.

>>714143825
shut up, meatbag

The impression I get is a large part of your enjoyment of the game is going to come from whether you get sucked in by the jingling keys of the family soap opera melodrama or if you're the kind to go "wait a second, these guys are literally responsible for genociding a world of thinking beings. Why do I give a FUCK about what happens to them or one of their own 'learning to move on from grief'? Total painter death. One fire wasn't enough."

>>714139581
Retard.
>No, devs have already confirmed it works completely differently for gestrals and humans, completely different rules for them.
At no point have they "confirmed" this, your claim is solely based on the words of Alicia in the game who isn't even a trustworthy narrator.
>She didnt "grasp their essence", she took their chroma.
Literally nitpicking on words that basically mean the same thing, aka strawman argument.
>How the fuck do you think she brought back Pierre that she never knew and never met, you retarded baboon?
By creating a person based on the words and description of Sciel?
>So you deny that she can bring people back
I never said that, I said that the people she brings back aren't exactly the same as the original.
>invent imaginary powers that no painter ever had?
Did you miss that Clea could paint over people, which at the time of finding out, Alicia claims only she can do it yet here we see a now aging Verso who wanted to die prior to said scene, hesitating to sit down and play the piano while Alicia looks intensely at him, she is very clearly forcing him. Don't mistake force of will as mind control, she isn't mind controlling him but she is forcing him to bend to her will.

>>714126452 (OP)
I thought the whole game was just kinda bland and generic. The hype baffles me

>>714126452 (OP)
>Some might like the twist of "it's all fake"
If that's what you got out of the twist that its a created world you're an absolute brainlet. I still can't believe people keep fucking this up.

>>714144727
Who gives a shit

>>714142772
>She and her father were treated like dogs and nobody cared.
The only ones that could have cared or done anything are the worst people in the planet (Verso and Maelle) which is why Alicia's hopes were misplaced, those chucklefucks couldn't talk their way out of a wet paper bag.

>>714144727
>Don't mistake force of will as mind control, she isn't mind controlling him but she is forcing him to bend to her will.
As a Verso enjoyer, I don't think this is clear cut. I think it's extremely possible that Verso is simply incapable of death and resistance, and has resigned himself to some literal version of the piano mines. Alicia's painter eyes could just be how Verso is observing what Alicia is doing to herself.
I think the strongest argument in favor of the forcing argument is actually the Chroma that's floating around the opera house. Maybe this is my own memory failing, but I don't believe there are many/any examples of this in the game, which might indicate that Alicia has painted the entire scenario in some way.

>>714144985
>bland and generic
I thought the intro was really unique. Got me invested early. The areas are pretty interesting as well. Now that I think about it, you're a fucking retard.

>>714145104
>I thought the intro was really unique
How?

Other games in recent memory that are straight up classical tragedies without good endigs?

>>714145104
>The areas are pretty interesting as well
You mean the generic floating rubble aesthetic slathered in bloom that's been done in a thousand other games?

>>714145104
>I thought the intro was really unique. Got me invested early
Yeah it's called lazy gimmick writing that works really well on the feeble minded

>>714126452 (OP)
It insists upon itself

>>714144727
>At no point have they "confirmed" this
Your confidence is proportional to your ignorance. https://youtu.be/yB-nPIBW-Ks?t=3092
>Literally nitpicking on words that basically mean the same thing

No it means completely different things. "essence" is used by Verso instructing Maelle, and he didnt mean "chroma".
>By creating a person based on the words and description of Sciel?
I see you dont even give a shit about making any logical sense or what characters in the story are like. Sciel explicitly said she doesnt want a copy of Pierre, she wants Pierre. How the hell do you think you can make the exact person with their personality and memories based on description? Are you retarded? Do you think Sciel wants some blow up doll?
Please try a little harder to rationalize your brainlet narrative
>back aren't exactly the same as the original.
The only people weve seen her bring back are exactly the same as the original, and all the characters only want the same kind of originals brought back, not copies. The story addresses the issue of copies and they dont want those. Do you get it motherfucker?
>Clea could paint over people
Yeah paint over and not perfectly either and not perfectly, not mindcontrol them.
>hesitating to sit down and play the piano while Alicia looks intensely at him
Everyone intensely looking at him, he is the star of the show, they are there for him you retarded baboon.

You dont even understand the characters, Verso doesn't need to be forced to play, he'd play on his own even if its just for Maelle to make her happy. Nor would Maelle want to control her in some evil woman ways you incel.

>>714145262
Give 3 examples of games you think are well written

>>714145189
Give 3 examples of other games like that, or 3 examples of good area design

>>714144727
>>714145401
Two retards fighting

>>714145425
Which unreal asset pack was your favorite?

>>714145078
>Chroma that's floating around the opera house
it's just literally dust.

>>714145456
>nitpicking a completely unremarkable area from the overworld map

nice one you absolute nob gobbler

>>714145457
Dust doesn't flicker bro, start watching this a bit before 10 minutes. https://youtu.be/QEk75rd7hi8?t=584

>>714145591
You cant possibly actually think that looks good

>>714145434
>Aline vs Renoir
>Light vs Dark
>Retard vs Retard

It's like poetry, it rhymes

>>714145591
>i-is that muddy unreal asset store slop??? GOTY

>>714145634
see
>>714145425
>Give 3 examples of other games like that, or 3 examples of good area design

>>714145591
This game is actually fucking hideous

>>714145705
>>714145683
>>714145591
>>714145456
I cant tell which of these are bashing the game and which are saying it looks good

>>714145683
Damn which Steam indie darling about depression is this from?

>>714145683
Did chatgpt do the art for this game? This is the most generic shit I've ever seen

>>714145347
This, the whole game is the definition of style over substance. Long scenes with beautiful music and endless stares with a bunch of pseudo-deep words and quotes thrown in. Once you look at the actual story, the characters, the writing it all falls apart. This is basically an art-house fan's versions of a French soap opera

>>714126452 (OP)
If it's just a question about Maelle's escapism, then obviously Verso is right. That kind of escapism isn't healthy. It is not a remotely complex philosophical question. There is a single obvious and objectively correct answer.

The fact they think this is a complex question should be enough to put a damper on the ending sequence, but it's so painfully overshadowed by the fact that this is not the most pressing issue. They are destroying an entire world whose people appear to be entirely sentient. Who gives a shit about Maelle? This is bigger than her, and the game somehow can't realize that.

A plot-focused game can't fumble the ending that hard and still deserve all the praise this shit is getting.

>>714145797
UBW is about depression?

>>714145838
This is a joke but most of the assets do feel AI generated. That said the whole it's a painted world explanation pretty much prevents any such criticism

This is the most beautiful game I've ever played. Nothing else looks like this

Only trannies think this looks bad

Is this game the latest fun thing joyless Discord trannies are latching onto to hate

>>714145883
This. Making a game about the expeditions and then acting like they don't exist or deserve any mention whiel focusing on the shit between Maelle and Verso and their fucked up family basically cheapens your entire game.

Why would anyone even replay it, when the game itself doesn't give a shit about the companions or the world itself, where everyone can be repainted and be immortal if the painter so desires it? What's the point?

>>714126452 (OP)
Holy shit nigger who cares? This game's writing is AppleTV+ tier generic soap opera slop for retards

>>714145104
>I thought the intro was really unique. Got me invested early

Literally nothing else looks like this

>>714126452 (OP)
I did feel they've dropped lots of threads after the Act 2 reveal. The very beginning intrigues with Gustave clearly contracting a PTSD, expeditions history, the technologies, the outside world having some sort of civilizations and it all comes down to young adult-tier story of some war between magical painters and writers, almost in-your-face depiction of trauma cope and all the dots being there to connect and not many things left to your imagination. Despite the game being fine, it left me disappointed in many ways (technically and gameplay-wise as well but it's a whole other can of worms).

>>714145401
Retard.

>>714146445
I don't think there's any point staying in this thread and trying to argue in favour of the game. It's been taken over by a bunch of bad-faith actors. Probably Discord troons trying to torpedo any actual discussion like they've done for just about every popular/well received game for the last 2 years. Just wait a few months and we might be able to actually discuss it.

>>714145165
I liked the concept of the gommage and how much it showed in how the people live and adapted with it.
>>714145189
You didn't enjoy the underwater area? Gestral area? Lumiere? Some of the canvas side areas are really nice.
>>714145262
>>714146205
>hello i have autism
Good for you champ.

>>714146091
Well you seem to care enough to reply buddy

>>714149617
I'm not your buddy, friend

>>714126452 (OP)
Verso was in the right but Maelle ending makes more sense in the game

>>714147097
Hoping they'll die off after it wins GOTY

>>714126452 (OP)
Why does the left keep shilling this game? It's like the liberal tranny's starter pack game.

>>714134683
I really am not a fan of subversion like this in stories, where everything up until that point is rendered redundant. It's one thing to tell the player they've been working for the wrong side until now and their actions have been detrimental to their overall goal, MGS did this, and more recently KCD2 did this over and over again. It's another thing entirely though to tell the player more than half way through the story that everything they have seen and cared about until now has been entirely fake and ultimately inconsequential and here's the real story you should care about. I hated it in Metro: Exodus and I hated it here too.

>>714150152
Name 5 things liberal or tranny about it

>>714150468
>It's another thing entirely though to tell the player more than half way through the story that everything they have seen and cared about until now has been entirely fake and ultimately inconsequential and here's the real story you should care about.
The game's literally not saying that at all. I will never understand you brainlets purporting this shit youtube-comment tier opinion. Especially when the game blatantly tries to tell you the opposite all the time after this reveal. You literally got filtered by baby's first philosophical creationist argument. This is literally simulation hypothesis painted (hur hur) in the lens of Belle Epqoue Paris and you, like the smoothbrain you are, let it slide right over your silky grey matter.

>>714126452 (OP)
>shit combat
>shit level design
>boring 1-note characters
>cringe writing
Yep, its goyslop

>>714126452 (OP)
If Ubisoft published this game everyone would unanimously consider it mediocre and forgettable. But because its success can be used against Square Enix and Ubisoft people pretend it isn't aggressively average

>maelle selfish
>maelle evil
>maelle bad
yeah but she's cute

>>714150943
You're wrong. Based on your interpretation, the dilemma at the end is absolutely overwhelmingly trivial. One family's drama versus an entire universe of sentient creatures. The game clearly does want to at least entertain the possibility that the painting is fake and nothing matters.

Verso was completely in the right.
>b-but muh painted people
They are basically more elaborate Sims.

>>714151405
Go shower asmonigger

>>714150943
Also adding on a few other, very basic philosophies/concepts E33 touches on with its themes of "Is this created world REAL"

>Plato and the Cave
The residents of Lumiere are the chained observers in the cave. The Dessendre family are those casting the shadows and speaking to them, painting their perception of their world.

>Gnostic Cosmology
Lumiere is a prison and the Dessendre family are a collective Demiurge

>>714151285
I'm not wrong you retard. It's what gives the finale greater choice and meaning. Of course the world is real, but it's doomed to fall apart and be destroyed one way or another. Whether its by Maelle going insane like her mother, or Renoir coming back and destroying it to get Maelle out. The canvas is a playground for the Dessendre family, almost in the same way the mortal plane is playground for Gods in so many other forms of fiction. Part of the finale is that Verso argues Alicia can make new worlds after his canvas anyway, and he doesn't want to keep her from that.

If you wanted to compare this to some other JRPGs, you could say Alicia is revealed to be the daughter of God, but the world she is on will kill her, even though it feels like her home. Her father is trying to save her from the world but the only way he can do it is by destroying it. The created world being destroyed isn't invalidated, but her father, a god, sees the deaths of the mortals as a price worth paying to save his divine daughter, especially if they can make a new world together after. One that won't kill her.

>>714151181
>if if if like if in my fantasy world like
Grow up.

>>714151697
>Lumiere is a prison and the Dessendre family are a collective Demiurge
Except there is no gnosis or escape for the people there, they can only cease to exist.

>>714150592
>inspired by final fantasy
>most characters are women
>pretentious and bad story
>millennial writing
>over emotional bullshit

game oozes soul. also lune's feet.

>>714152108
Just like real life

>>714152453
3 of those things are subjective and only 1 is "leftist" you tremendous faggot

>>714151697
>Of course the world is real, but it's doomed to fall apart and be destroyed one way or another.
The choice is completely trivial for any sane rational person. You can't rationalize prioritizing the life of one girl over the lives of an entire world on the fact that the world ends anyway, what, how many generations later? Newsflash, Maelle dies anyway. She is not immortal. Verso sure wasn't.

>>714151697
>Also adding on a few other, very basic philosophies/concepts E33 touches on with its themes of "Is this created world REAL"

All that shit is stupid though.

The people in the painting are obviously real. They're real because we the players spent time with them. You can't have us journey with characters and get to know them and grow attached to them and then say that in-universe they're philosophical zombies. It doesn't work, unless you're a psued.

>>714152453
ok zoomzoom, now go suck a dick or something

>>714151697
>If you wanted to compare this to some other JRPGs [...] but her father, a god, sees the deaths of the mortals as a price worth paying to save his divine daughter, especially if they can make a new world together after.

Yes but in a stereotypical platonic jrpg this would be the VILLAIN plot and at the end you'd kill him and save the world in such a way that the people of that world can decide their own destiny and not be the pawns of an amoral higher power.

>>714153423
>>714154158
Congrats retards you're understanding the nuances of a philosophical debate. Glad that you needed a fucking video game of all things to prime you for it.

>>714154158
>You can't have us journey with characters and get to know them and grow attached to them and then say that in-universe they're philosophical zombies
The game literally does not say that at any point. Maelle argues the opposite constantly, saying the canvas is her home.

>>714137256
anti-E33 schizos have been exposed as pajeets multiple times.

>>714154558
>Congrats retards you're understanding the nuances of a philosophical debate.
>nuances
>debate

I think the other anons point is that there is neither if you really think about it what is at stake.

>The game literally does not say that at any point.

(You) were kinda implying it by making reference to le platonic cave and le gnosticism.

Maelle never asks for Renoir to spare the painted people's lives on behalf of themselves. She doesn't make the plea that they're living people who deserve life and that him killing them all is wrong. She only ever asks for the canvas to stay because she finds it fun.
Maelle doesn't see the people in the canvas as real people. They're essentially video game NPCs from her point of view. They have no real emotions or free will.
This means that the Verso ending is objectively the correct ending, as the Maelle ending is just Alicia becoming a NEET and locking herself in her room to play The Sims until she dies.

>>714155552
>Maelle never asks for Renoir to spare the painted people's lives on behalf of themselves. She doesn't make the plea that they're living people who deserve life and that him killing them all is wrong. She only ever asks for the canvas to stay because she finds it fun.

People say the game is a tragedy but I really don't see how it's supposed to be if you step back and think about what a bunch of raging douches the entire painter family.

I'm reminded of when people say God of War 1 is actually a tragedy and Kratos is tragic character but I get no pathos from it because he's such a raging cunt that he gets no sympathy. In fact I WANT bad things to happen to him. He deserves it.