Project M got a massive update with loads of new characters and stages, but Melee fans still will stick to their old game.

https://youtu.be/0sEO-vzyUaQ

>>714182867 (OP)
My problem with project m mods is that usually the new characters are kinda janky and the animation quality isnt up to snuff, which is fair and to be expected of amateurs. Project m itself didnt really have this problem, the ones they added and even the WIP ones like lyn and knuckle looked pretty good. Fun to fuck around with friends but it's pretty obvious why there's no competitive scene (for heavily modded PM anyway, P+ is still pretty popular).

>>714182867 (OP)
So I don't get it, did they increase the amount of system memory that is available normally? How is that even possible?
I did not think such a thing would be possible even with Dolphin.

How is it that this game has more moddability than melee? Is it close to a decomp?

>>714182867 (OP)
Let me know when they add more Kirby copy abilities.

>>714182867 (OP)
That Master Chief looks fucking jank

>>714182867 (OP)
>but Melee fans still will stick to their old game
because our old game can be played at large tournaments and livestreamed without getting C&D'd and lawyer'd to death

>>714183918
No, I think it's because it's on the Wii, which is ridiculously easy to load mods on, so it's more accessible.

>>714183918
Melee is closer to a decomp actually.

>>714183319
Legacy XP had mostly polished characters, but there's only a handful outside of that mod and PM that of a decent quality. These big mod packs always have too many characters, and a good chunk of them just have really shitty visuals. They need to trim the fat and focus on the few characters that are close to being pretty decent instead of adding Doctor Luigi or some other meme character.

>>714183918
>>714184269
this
the wii is infamously easy to fuck around on, mario kart having a massive modding + online play scene is the best example of this

>>714182867 (OP)
Melee has rollback netcode while none of the Brawl mods do, you retard.

Only Incineroar and Sceptile were good. The rest of the picks were awful.
>Shovel Shit
>Sol Badguy
>Rock Howard
>A fucking Primid
>Kumatora looks like a Lucas reskin with no PK Earth, no surprise there
>Dragon King, essentially adding a FIFTH falcon, six if you count Ganondorf
>Master Chief before Doomguy
Awful, it's like all the faggots from Ultimate throwing every third party at the wall except they went and did just that with a mod.
>The ending credits
All these modders are bleeding into each other and now any chance of good or unique picks went straight out the window when they can just port a character from another mod and call it new.

>>714184208
This. Back when you could play pm at tournaments it was literally played more than melee.

>>714186136
What would PK Earth be like?

>>714186041
What about BrawlBack?

>>714186136
What good or unique picks are missing from this roster? Remember they are only just now realizing they can create ultimate tier character gimmicks.

>>714186041
This. All of these crazy Brawl mods are dead in the water until Brawlback releases, and there's STILL no release in sight. Until then, Rivals of Aether 2 is filling PM's niche

>>714182867 (OP)
>play melee or brawl heavily modded to play like melee
Tough choice

>>714186771
>play melee or a spin-off of melee where every character is actually playable, there's more of them, and there's a ton more fun stages and quality of life features
tough choice

>>714186914
Not to mention a bunch of new game play options

I wish auto-l canceling was default so I would not have to enable it though the debug menu to have it on for single player modes.

>>714182867 (OP)
Are they really bragging about jiggle physics being a huge undertaking?

>>714186638
Rivals 2 seems to just be pushing people back to melee

>>714186429
I'd put it as her down-b, charge it up by holding down B, and going by how it works in M3, the damage will be huge for those with a low percentage but lower for those with a high percentage.

>>714186614
>No Dixie Kong but have six falcons instead
>Still no Villager
>Still no Mega Man but have X and Zero
>No Skull Kid
>No Crash Bandicoot
>No Doom Guy
>No Black Mage or a classic FF character
>Any of the remaining characters officially added in Smash
When two Pokemon are the highlight of the newcomer showcase, that's not a good sign.

>>714183319
FPBP. I recognize at least half these characters from one big other mod and half the characters in it basically fucking ghosted forward with animations that lasted about half a frame rather than smooth movement, had shit hitboxes both on being hit and on attack, etc. If they polished them up to actually being something good, awesome, but until then they're just bad filler.

>>714186614
rosterfags will never be satisfied and it's best to tune them out

>>714184208
>can be played at large tournaments and livestreamed without getting C&D'd and lawyer'd to death
Enter furry Project M

>>714187175
Melee players are like people who refuse to eat anything other than the same dinosaur chicken nuggets they've been eating for the past two decades. I love Melee, Melee is easily much more technically demanding than RoA2, but the fact is that it's new, it's good, and it's being updated every month. Fighting games in general have a Goldilocks problem, where people will simply refuse to play anything that isn't "just right", which is never realistic.

>>714186136
As long as they're fun, it's fine.

>>714186914
>Play a game that's polished for the most part or play a faggy mugen-tier mod with janky animations and a bunch of hamfisted characters that literal underage like >>714187860 will defend simply because it's a big number

Fuck off shills, your discord mod sucks

>>714188084
Yeah, I can't wait to see fucking Goku and Spider-man in the next update. They literally have a Dragon Ball stage in the mod, may as well stop trying to pretend they have standards.

>>714188254
>melee
>polished
half the characters aren't even viable, the bottom half of those that are are only viable because of chain grabs, bowser has an 8f jump squat, game & watch's shield doesn't work, there's an inescapable o-to-death combo that took people 15 years to ban
melee isn't polished, it's just fun

>>714188490
>I can't wait to see Goku in the next update
This but unironically

>>714182867 (OP)
>Melee fans still will stick to their old game.
They have the right to. I'll stick with vanilla Brawl and Brawl Minus, myself. There's not much that I find appealing about the idea of inserting Melee things into Brawl, I could just go and play Melee if that's what I desired.

>>714187370
Villager is still in development.

>>714188556
>for the most part
There is less jank in Melee than these mods you keep shilling and defending. I will take Melee 100 times over that shit OP posted.

>>714186041
Whats the importance of this? Ive seen people refuse to play some fighting games that has lacked this.

>>714188490
As long as they're fun, it's fine.

>>714187370
>No Dixie Kong
I would not be surprised if she is in development.
>No Crash Bandicoot
Probably in development.

>>714187370
>>714186136

One of the devs just confirmed that Kumatora has PK Ground.

>>714188938
>muh fun

>>714187993
I mean more rivals 2 is still struggling to figure out what it wants. I don't feel some of the systems like the grab game and how low commitment everything is are ideal yet, and the devs have been making fairly massive core mechanic changes that tell me they are still fucking around with ideas. Not that it isn't fun, but I can see melee players just going back when they don't have as much fun playing it.

>>714186914
>every character is actually playable
We have DK and Yoshi consistently getting top 8s in Melee these days, I do not give a shit about PM mods futzing with character balance every other month

>>714188490
It seems like no non game characters are getting in.

I want to see Krystal already. Ultimate has a moveset for her that is amazing.

Just copy the animations if that is possible.

>>714189167
You're a rosterfag, of course you don't care about fun, and the gameplay at all.

>Liz got in before Seiba even got moveset concepts
I'm still confused by this, was someone on the PMEX Remix team just a huge waifufag for her?

>>714189539
Is this a fate character?

>>714189158
Good.

>>714189539
Who are these characters?

Honestly could we get SpongeBob? Just rip his animations from NASB

>>714189254
Yoshi only top 8's thanks to aMSa, and he stopped winning tournaments as soon as players realized that they needed to learn the MU for one specific player. Link and DK, similarly, is an issue of MUs, MU inexperience, and counterpicking. People really overestimate how good these characters actually are because they fail to understand the context for their relatively small window of success. It isn't just about the inherent attributes of the character, it's about players (and specifically players not adapting).

Regardless, no one here is getting top 8, top 16, or top 32. Except Morse. It's certainly possible to fuck around and have fun with characters who can't actually win tournaments, but if that's your goal, then PM has 3-4x as many characters to fuck around with.

>>714189539
LIZ LOVE!!!

>>714182867 (OP)
>banjo is in
>sora is in
No thanks, I think I'm good. I'd rather not play a fanfic Smash mod if they add in meme sloppa right away.

>>714189815
Why did he stop playing PM? he was one of the best Lucario players.

>>714189462
I don't give a fuck about fun if you're more focused on adding sixty characters for the sake of it rather than adding two characters and polishing them up extensively. Anyone with a brain knows this.

>>714189871
enough about smash ultimate

>>714189962
You're right. Smash Ultimate is even worse because that's an official game, not a mod.

>>714189815
>Pm has many more viable characters
>Also has more dogshit characters I don't want to face to compensate like snake, rob, Diddy, Squirtle, ECT
A curse we must bare

>>714189232
True, but it has a consistent design philosophy that's healthy for the game: high skill ceiling, low skill floor, don't let mechanics get in the way of skill expression. I've liked pretty much every patch since the game's release, personally. I think floorhugging needs two or three more tweaks (like making it impossible to do if you're not actionable), but that's about it. Maybe more endlag on specific moves.

>>714189539
Based saberchad

>>714190034
Well ultimate is just a mod of smash 4 so...

>>714182867 (OP)
I prefer Smash Remix.
Much better than Memelee.
Crash in 64 is kino.

>>714189539
it was an existing moveset from brawlvault

>>714189913
I assume he wanted to compete in the game that's actually financially viable to dedicate your life to

>>714190270
Smash Remix is just more polished than all of these Project M offshoots imo

>Incineroar
>Sceptile
>Dark Samus
>Primid
>Kumatora
>Rock Howard
>Sol Badguy
>Shovel Knight
>Dragon King
>Master Chief
Unless I was skipping through too fast, I think that's all the characters. I like Primid.

>>714189569
She’s basically the poster child of VNs

>>714190270
Considering the Smash Remix team is helping I imagine Crash could be a possibility

Reminder that Melee has killed more people than any other Smash game and is currently imploding right now due to drama, and that's a good thing.

>>714190547
Dark Smash just got her ultimate moveset added as an alternative.

>>714190696
What drama is happening?

>>714190547
I can’t believe masterchief didn’t make it to ultimate

>>714189539
Liz is too powerful.

>>714190803
If I had to make a guess the shit with Mang0.

>>714190869
I am out of the loop is there a video about it?

>>714190803
A dude killed hismelf
>>714190856
Fuck you

>>714190547
Dark Samus just got her ultimate moveset added as an alternative

Huh, I thought this project died years ago. Even tough it's stupidly jank, I still like to boot it up once in a while to fuck around a bit. Between this, Smash Remix, and Akaneia, fangame bros are eating good.

>>714189815
My point is the meta of PM will never develop organically because balance boils down to a) too many cooks in the kitchen b) no unifying vision besides "make it play like Melee and add my favorite characters". Axe, amSa, and Junebug, and lesser mid-tier players shifted the meta with solid fundamentals, high-tier play, and a deep understanding of the game. Now you actually have to prepare for the MU instead of just bullying your way through with a better kit. You can't significantly change the way people play matchups and develop the meta in PM because there's no separation between the devs and the comp scene, so it just bounces back and forth between varying states of "OP, please nerf!" and "ugh when does MY main get buffs?"

>>714190962
I would prefer if Tails got some more moveset changes to align with Akaneia since that is more polished.

Also add Raichu

>>714184208
Instead you'll get molested, I'll stick with project m

>>714190856
based

>>714191049
>molested
The pot calling the kettle black, gotta love it

>>714191016
Fair enough.

>>714190172
Wont lie, I don't like dealing with the characters with very low commitment bs like zetter or stupid 50/50s like clairen, but i would still play regardless.

What made me quit a few months back was the dogshit servers/netcode. I shouldn't be struggling to deal with some of this when i have input delay strong enough to make punishing characters with tight gaps in their offense incredible unsatisfying. And it can't be my connection because I can just play fine with ZERO issues in fightcade 2 with a friend, so I don't think I can let it slide.

>>714190962
Which is better Akaneia or Beyond Melee?

Well I'm sure Akaneia is more polished, It only has one character that isn't just a backport from brawl

>>714182867 (OP)
Looks fun, but the trailer is really awful, they claim that they collaborated with the smash remix team to make a character, they could ask them for help to make a better trailer, it takes itself too serious.
If I don't play online and like to play with a lot of fun characters like RoA mods or Smash Crusade what kind of modpack should I try? This one?

>>714190696
>and is currently imploding right now due to drama
no it isn't.

>>714188907
There's 2 major design ethos when it comes to online multiplayer: delay-based and rollback. Most MP systems use delay-based, trying to match the inputs of every player and send the packets between them. If someone moves slower, delay or lag the game until you reach parity with everyone. This works FINE for most video games, except if you are a 1v1 fighter where everyone is working on the speed of individual frames. It never really worked for fighting games, most people just tolerated it for like 20 years until people said "No, this is an unacceptable standard, I shouldn't be completely fucked because one of us is on college WiFi".
Rollback attempts to solve this by having the game work forward, scanning the game environment some frames ahead of time and make a guesstimate on what a player will do. If its correct, play that outcome on both players side; if not, rollback to the last point and use what actually happened. It's expensive and processor heavy, but when implemented correctly (COUGH COUGH STREET FIGHTER V) you have a much smoother and lag-free experience. It does kind of mess with the illusion of multiplayer gaming some, and can't be added to every MP game, but it generally works for fighting games extremely well.

>>714191746
Considering how they're reeing over Technicals exposing them, yeah it is.

>>714191647
Akaneia's the only one actively supported as of now. Beyond Melee's a curiosity at best, especially since there was a troon on the dev team.

>>714191043
I do not see the hype around playing as Dedede or Diddy in Melee when I can just play PM

>>714191870
no one is talking about that anymore. people have already moved on like nothing ever happened.

>>714191618
I stopped having server issues a while ago, but I also play from pretty popular regions (US West and East). At worst, I'd get some weird hiccups from the Dallas and Chicago servers. Also, I believe they're working on optional P2P connections (although this is probably only for lobbies at the moment), as confirmed by Dan's response to the whole Stop Killing Games review bomb. For people outside of the US and EU, it's probably a Discord fighter.
I also hate Zetterburn and Clairen, but Zetterburn at least got nerfed recently and Clairen is likely next, especially depending on her GomL / Evo performance. That said, I dislike how the game being actively balanced encourages people to bitch about the character / mechanic of the day. >>714191016 has a point about how a "stagnant" game actually forces people to adapt and evolve the metagame, and there are too many people who just run to the developers whenever they're beaten by someone or something in RoA2.

>>714192024
No one is talking about it because people keep fucking off from Melee, leaving only the faggots who either watched Hax die or directly contributed to his death.
I already disliked the post-Slippi Melee community, but the whole thing cemented that dislike and I never want anything to do with them again.

>>714192079
It's mostly just the netplay hindering my enjoyment. I'm fine with annoying characters when I have the ability to make reads and punish stupid shit, but when netplay makes it where I have to proactively be doing punishes before it's meant to happen because of delay, I get salty as shit.

There's only so many times I can deal with loxo's long normals like ftilt and be unable to punish even this unsafe move because delay makes it that much harder. I'll eventually retry and see how it feels but playing with these connections for months just took a toll.

>>714192264
same faggots got Mang0 drunk like that ludwig faggot and thought it was funny until he went around a girl.

>>714182867 (OP)
Why Silver and not Amy or Blaze?

>>714192715
Because he's cuter and cooler than both those cumrags

Should projects like these use AI to assist?

>>714192981
Silver is the cumrag though.

>>714193067
Maybe in color, but he's definitely a rapebastard

>>714192690
You can’t get drunk anymore?

>>714193476
the melee community thinks this way now.

>>714192981
>>714193424
Try saying that to sthg

>>714193887
Is this unironically true or is there more to it

for the amount of seething I see towards Sol being here I don't see anyone complaining about Nu-13 from Blazblue as a playable character as well

>>714194227
That was years ago, backported into this project, and is a cute yandere robot girl and not the creator's literal Cooler Than You self-insert.

>>714194227
Where is ragna

>>714183918
>>714184278
>decomps
>worlds most irrelevant code project type award
You can already mod melee easily. Decomps have accomplished nothing for all the other games that have them

>>714194564
>where's ragna
>in a post CF world
bro...

I would only download PM if seiba got in now that I know it’s an option

Respect for my nigga Primid

>>714194096
He got drunk and air humped some e-thot's head on stream. Now he's banned and got dropped by Cloud9. Now everyone is talking about how he has an alcohol problem but he's also a grown man despite Ludwig and co getting him drunk for content. Don't even care for Mango, but in a more just world this shit would be handled between him and the girl rather than having an entire legion of reactionary pearl clutchers go on another witch hunt.

I appreciate the amount of work that went into this but several characters don't look very polished and it still looks like a quantity over quality MUGEN thing

>>714196391
I thought this was America

>>714196391
Did not Hax$ get into trouble as well?

>>714183319
Holy fpbp
P+ was full on in the quality still.
LegacyXP / PMEX remix / Rex (newest) all are quanitity over quality.
Some of that new quantity being so close to the quality standard PM had, but then some were just plain bad.
I run pmex remix when I have friends over, and if we want a more serious match, it's still just P+ if you ignore the new content.
>>714186041
>>714186512
Brawlback is making snail progress. I'd be incredibly surprised if we get anything playable before 2030.

>>714182867 (OP)
>post a youtube video
>no download link
>no website
Like I get wanting to avoid Nintendo but like, how do I get it?

>>714191557
I'm glad you like it tho. I'm gonna try and get Remix goin on my PC this week. I don't care for PM specifically, but a flourishing mod scene is always dope.

>>714191747
Cheers m8.

>>714198476
I tried Remix and while the mod is very high quality, 64 gameplay simply isn't for me: tap jump being relevant, no C-stick, the insane amount of shield pressure and lack of defensive options... it's a pretty crazy game. And maybe I'm bad, but character balance is all over the place. I'd pick up a character and immediately be able to tell that they're broken or just fundamentally good, and then I'd pick up another and they have fucking nothing going for them.

>>714199089
Not having watched much of any gameplay, I'm guessing it's busted as hell with the philosophy of leaving the 12 OGs untouched. You're just never gonna balance well when you're increasing the roster 200%. That said, I love 64 gameplay in general. It's so chunky and the sound design is awesome.

Brawl mods are honestly the perfect way to play smash bros. I saw saber posted earlier. Is there a good saber character mod? She’s my favorite and I want to have sex with her so bad

>>714199378
The OGs are somewhat updated, but... I don't know. I was going to say that they replaced some of Kirby's moves, but I think it's just been forever since I played 64 so I don't remember them clearly. Mario is good. Luigi is good (his upB goes diagonally now), Falcon is good, but Samus and Link were fucking ass from what I played of them. Dark Samus and Young Link are just infinitely better characters and have moves that definitely cocked an eyebrow. Marth, Roy, and Dr. Luigi also seem fucked up good.

The biggest sticking point for me was that they gave Ganondorf's utilt a significant speed buff, but retained it's power, and it exists alongside Samus' utilt, which is slower. Wild stuff.

>>714182867 (OP)
>Fanmade slop
Yikes
>Melee
Yikes

>>714195145
>>714199438
Closest I ever found for a Saber mod in any Smash is a skin/costume for Lucina in Ultimate

>>714201316
Sad. I love saber. I want to take her in the missionary position

>>714201482
same but with jannu

>>714182867 (OP)
Melee fans are forced to stick to their old game. The last time a bigger-than-grassroots tournament attempted to host PM, a Nintendo lawyer told them to knock it off.

>>714201482
Call that a final smash

>>714186136
Fuck you Primids are awsome

which of these melee mod packs have the best options for waifufags i just wanna play a cute anime girl and i dont wanna have to make it myself just because trying to balance a figthing game character without bias sounds like itd be impossible

>>714182867 (OP)
Kumatora is a cool addition

seeing as there is a comical amount of modded characters here, I wonder if adding new bosses or new subspace emissary stages would be harder

It's alarming how many of these characters don't have footsnap enabled in animations where they should be grounded

>>714182867 (OP)
>finally figured out how to integrate custom Havok physics
Wow. I know that was something hackers have been chasing their tails on for like 12 fucking years. Good on them.

>>714186136
>incelroar
>good
I hate furries

>>714201950
>nintendo won't let melee players play PM
>nintendo won't let ultimate players ban steve
lmao

And now, the classic question: name your characters that you want in, bonus points for the more niche options

>>714205928
Distinct design > anime trash

>>714207115
kain highwind, final fantasy 4
>actual spear user, not somebody with a morphing weapon or pokes
>dragoon job is iconic to final fantasy
>from a "classic" era of final fantasy where cloud and sephiroth are from a more modern/contemporary era
>extremely distinctive voice and look
>aerial-minded weaponfighters basically don't exist

>>714207115
Saber

>>714182867 (OP)
Looks a bit silly with too many 3rd party characters.

I wish we got a mod that just finished what the OG PM team planned with Lyn and Isaac. If i wanted Cloud and 25 3rd party characters i would play Ultimate.

>>714186136
fuck you shovel knight is fantastic

>>714207115
some sort of monster hunter monster. Preferably lagi

>>714187370
>No Black Mage or a classic FF character
yeah... smash flash 2 made me realize the potential. maybe you could make the mage look like game and watch or pac man's ghost attacks.
though just making it vivi would be a better choice tbqh

>>714182867 (OP)
Remember when the trailers were consise and actually good?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIxskj3UFV0

>>714194767
>Decomps have accomplished nothing for all the other games that have them
>Provides zero examples of decomps accomplishing nothing
You would be a terrible debator

>>714194767
you are wrong

>>714207115
Demi-fiend

>>714187993
>Fighting games in general have a Goldilocks problem
this isn't just a fighting games problem, it's an appealing to oldheads problem. look at every boomer arena shooter that tries to quake. people will say they want quake 5 or 4th strike but what they actually want is to relive the era when their game was hot shit, not to play a minor iteration on something they've already been playing for 20 years and will keep playing indefinitely purely out of inertia

Bumping

>>714182867 (OP)
Project M was hardcore melee pedos reaction to Brawl. It's so far beyond irrelevant I can't believe mods even allow this topic.

>>714182867 (OP)
>Haloid reference as the focus for the reveal trailer.
Man, brings me back. I miss you Monty Oum, why'd you let an e-girl gaslight you into taking allergy shots which led to your death?
Also Yeah I know the spartan in Haloid wasn't Chief, but still

>>714182867 (OP)
A bunch of characters IDGAF about, punctuated by two furfaggot mainstays instead of any other more suitable pokemon reps. Can't say I'm surprise, you know what kind of filth infests the average modding team these days.

>>714211074
SSF2 has some amazing character designs in general for a fan game. Sandbag and Krystal are utter fun.

>>714210883
Lagi is too big. It should be khezu. Just imagine the agony of playing against him.

>>714182867 (OP)
>Every new character is just a marth ken combo reskin
At least liz is in. Fate extra is underappreciated

>no rollback or matchmaking
dead in the water

>>714183918
it's had a much longer hack history that's for sure

>>714187993
>Fighting games in general have a Goldilocks problem
The issue is more so you got morons who want their ideal fighting game to play exactly like "X game" and if anything deviates slightly then it will be dropped and they will go back to playing their old ass game despite knowing it has so many bugs and whatever.

There really is no way you can appease these faggots. I mean Sakurai tried with Brawl, the Melee fags declared it the worst game ever made. Sakurai tried with Smash for Wii U, they didn't really give a fuck. Sakurai tried with Smash Ultimate, and around half of them still didn't give a shit.
There are some people you can simply never appease as a developer and are just simply not worth taking into account when you design your game.

>>714223854
>Sakurai tried
He never did. You can't look at Brawl and think that he tried to appeal to meleefags at all. Sm4sh had a lot of the same problems Brawl did as well, the only difference is that he said it's "faster than brawl" whatever that means. Ultimate is the only attempt at him that in some way succeeded, but it's the least pleasant game in the series to look at, and even sometimes play. Even if Sakurai understood full well the appeal of melee, he has actively added or removed mechanics to the future titles that are antithetical to what melee players actually want.

>>714186136
>Master Chief before Doomguy
Doomchud flopped though

>>714182867 (OP)
>but Melee fans still will stick to their old game.
What's wrong with that?

>>714223854
Probably because Melee feels the best to play and hasn't been topped. From even a casual standpoint. I don't give a fuck about all the advanced techniques, and even wavedashing I could probably do without. It just feels good to play and has actual momentum, which has been absent since. Brawl was pure AIDS and Sakurai has only been barely compromising since.

>>714226390
This. The new games just aren't good. Why compromise on something that's less fun when you have something more fun available?

>>714224563
Yeah, as much as I like modern Smash games, Sakurai have ACTIVELY sabotaged the Melee experience. Brawl legit have a hardcoded 1-5 random frame buffer, IIRC, that does nothing but make complex tech harder. Sm4sh have the most extreme form of Rage with no way to turn it off or down. And Ultimate's buffer was never toned down, even as casual complained it caused them to air dodge off the ledge. And there's a lot to be said about Nintendo's draconic approach to tournaments.

There's a point to be made about the FGC as whole wanting every game to just be Street Fighter 2 or Mortal Kombat, and the Melee crowd ain't much different. But Sakurai never tried to meet the meleefags halfway. He spent years fucking them over, even at the expense of the casual crowd. Shit like tripping, lacking options, the hazard switch being both buried in options and fucking useless, or FS Meter having zero balance represents this stuff.

>>714226390
You literally just proved my point.

Nobody can really explain why Melee is better than any of the other games than a "feel". Sakurai and various Brawl mods have tried to make every game since Brawl play faster, with fewer lag frames, fewer input lag delays, having the console the newer games are on with less input delay from the controllers, increasing the gravity of characters, and pretty much anything else you can think of that would make the game play faster.
But none of those objective metrics matter when you are going to say a game that isn't even finished, has half of the roster being clone characters or be obviously unfinished like Mr Game and Watch.

Also its worth noting that the only content Melee fags really give a damn about is a very specific set up where all items are turned off, only about 8 of the 26 characters are actually use, and 5 of the 29 stages. Melee fags literally only play about maybe 10% of what the game has to actually offer. Smash literally has nothing beyond 1 v 1s on those 5 stages with those 8 characters to every melee fag.

>>714182867 (OP)
Great, more FF and Persona wank-
>Rock and Sol
Now I will play your tranny mod

>>714226390
>actual momentum
This, I hate freezing midair when I jump in a post-melee smash game. That's literally all he has to bring back and you'd see a lot more people from the Melee crowd praising a newer title.

Wow, that's a really good trailer and the mod looks pretty...
>the build itself is in the horizon yet

Not getting my hopes up, all it takes is one cheeky C&D or one of the tranny devs to have a psychotic breakdown to take the whole thing down.

Nintendo modders will never learn, the only way to have a secure release is to shadowdrop.

These mods are getting progressively worse characters

>>714186136
>A fucking Primid
It's Brawl, you fucking moron. It makes sense that a Primid would be on the roster
>having Sol Badguy
Not only is he a great fighting game pick, but Guilty Gear itself has a platform fighter. It makes perfect sense
>Master Chief before Doomguy
Way to out yourself as a huge fucking poser. It's not about "muh FPS rep," it's the fact that Chief has a much more useful roster of weapons and such to create a distinct movelist for this kind of game. Doom just doesn't have that unless you dip into dogshit Nu-Doom territory, at which point it would be a more casual and dogshit pick than Halo.

>>714233398
Not him, but that is an awful excuse for a mook to be on a roster. Brawl sucks dick.
Guilty Gear sucks dick too.
>Muh moveset
Doomguy has plenty of moveset potential from the first doom game alone, so way to out yourself as a casual who doesn't know shit about the games he's trashing.

>>714233398
The only thing they gave Chief that Doomguy wouldn't have access to is the grav lift.

>>714182867 (OP)
Fun picks, it's always cool to see more fighting game characters added in. They seriously need an actual artist on board to animate these characters though. The character animations and the CG trailer are both really bad. It makes these look like modded characters from 13 years ago

>>714230160
>Nobody can really explain why Melee is better
I can.

When you run and jump in Melee with Captain Falcon, he moves in the air as fast as he was moving on the ground, and he is carried far.
Being able to jump far is exciting.

In Brawl, this doesn't happen, since there's no jump momentum. So it's less exciting.

Does that explain it for you, you gigantic fucking faggot?

>>714233398
Chief is also way cooler. Halo>>>Doom

>>714235368
Not really since most Brawl mods and I am pretty sure Smash Ultimate have momentum conservation and I think every game since Brawl have a much higher air move speed for each character.

It is really amazing how inarticulate melee fags are at explaining why their game just feels better.

>>714230160
Jumping cancels your momentum and smash games since melee have more lag

>>714235612
You’re wrong
>so inarticulate
You’re literally wrong and he’s right

>>714223854
>Sakurai tried
I agree with your point, but you picked the absolute worst possible example. What Sakurai tried to do was design multiple games that were explicitly antagonist to the very concept of Melee. People who don't like Brawl, 4, and Ultimate have every right to dislike them. Not necessarily because they're "slow", "floaty", or "boring", but because the design philosophy o every post-Melee Smash is a radical departure from pre-Melee.

I think about it more in terms of traditional fighting games. There are a lot of legitimate criticisms of SF6 for example, but it's still a well-made fighting game with an active community. There's a point where you need to accept that you're never going to get your exact, ideal fighting game and compromise. Sit down and eat the porridge with the rest of the fighting game community before it goes cold.

>>714182867 (OP)
Does Charizard still have thunder punch instead of fire punch for some dumb fucking reason?

>>714230160
It's better than other Smash games because it's accessible for casual players but has a high skill ceiling that allows players to be extremely expressive depending on how creative and technically skilled they are. No matter how creative or technical you are playing 4 or Ultimate, you're always going to come up against the fundamental mechanical limitations of the game. The only exception to this is probably Ice Climbers in Ultimate, which is an insanely technical character in the right hands.

Ultimate also has a disgusting amount of input delay and input buffering, which is exacerbated online because online has baked-in input delay for no discernible reason. The game feels like fucking ass to play if you ever stop playing it for more than a month. It isn't a matter of adapting to playing in molasses either, because input delay makes a lot of stuff un- or less reactable, especially online.

>>714183918
Brawl's modding scene is so much more developed because it got mods within a year specifically in response to its gameplay changes from Melee. Before PM, there was Brawl+. The game was also one of the main ways to load homebrew on the Wii back then thanks to the Smash Stack exploit.

>>714235612
Ulimate doesn't, but you're right about Brawl modpacks.

It's such a retarded idea that you can get melee players away from melee. They want to play melee, they stuck with it for this long for a reason.

>>714232712
SSB6 should implement a feature where you sacrifice your shield for offense. Like hitting Jump + Shield lets you jump with conservation of momentum in effect. Cause otherwise I get the point of it not having Conversation of Momentum; it's a balancing factor to differentiate characters much more.

Project M repacks peaked with Legacy XP. Every other mod of its kind was simply too janky and buggy to be fun for more than 10 minutes.

>>714183918
The Wii was Nintendo's first attempt at developing a "complex" OS, which resulted in a hive of exploits that allowed hackers to develop software from day 1. Plus having USB ports and a SD reader made installing software on the Wii 1000x easier than on every console before it (which had proprietary ports that required adapters or physical modifications).

>>714223854
>There really is no way you can appease these faggots. I mean Sakurai tried with Brawl, the Melee fags declared it the worst game ever made. Sakurai tried with Smash for Wii U, they didn't really give a fuck. Sakurai tried with Smash Ultimate, and around half of them still didn't give a shit.

Sakurai most certainly didn't try with Brawl. It was designed to be as accessible and easy as possible with the target audience of nongamers being introduced to gaming with the Wii. SSB4 was when Sakurai started inching back to make it more competitive and SSBU is peak Smash. Don't mind the meleefags who complain SSBU hasn't topped Melee. Melee is a dying community while SSBU had its biggest Smash Bros tournament this past April.

>>714235612
>I am pretty sure Smash Ultimate
The game is 6 years old and you don't know? I haven't played Ultimate since before the end of W1 DLC and I can tell you it wasn't there. It's instantly noticeable. Just like in 3DS/Wii U and Brawl

>>714207115
Saber and Shantae. Saber's cool and Shantae could push Brawl's limits on what can and can't be done with mods. Biased pick would be Fiora

>>714236648
Legacy XP is kino

>>714182867 (OP)
Yes I will, because PM's artificial balance doesn't feel natural. The game still to this day feels glued together, the physics don't feel right because its the brawl engine. You can mimic melee's framedata 1:1 but it still wont feel the same. I know your next damage control is to greentext me about ">gaaame feeel" but its very important to what Melee is.

PM isn't a bad game, by any means. its actually good, but why would i play a mockery, with annoying brawl characters, with artificial balance that feels forced and unnatural when I can play the real thing?

Before your protagonist sydnrome kicks in no im not a top tier main in melee, not even close but I still like the game more.

>>714194767
Decomps give you a rebuilt game with the source code available to the developers of said project. It is infact, altogether intrinsicly superior to mods and its stupid to debate otherwise. It'd be like if we marched into Nintendo headquarters and stole melee's sourcecode. But instead of that the community made it themselves so Nintendo cant say shit because its our code. At most they can claim the characters in a autistic fit of rage and all we gotta do is reskin chars and items and they cant do shit because they dont own the property.

>>714236729
Melee will never completely die even if it goes through bust or hiatus periods. Ultimate will only stay active until the next Smash release, just like Wii U and Brawl before it. No Smash games feel as good to move around in as 64 and Melee, I don't care if you have 100 viable characters on the roster if it feels like shit to play, and Ultimate can't even break away from it's watered-down, neutral-dominant interactions.

>>714235368
There are characters that are insanely mobile with super tricky movement options in Diddy and Sheik. Heck, even DK is super mobile.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/95UW_zb64YE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy4KUHELAkI

The conservation of momentum in Melee and gameplay speed gives the game an inherent nice flow speed (if you have the technical skills to keep up). But later games pushed in favor of character specific traits as opposed to universal mechanics so that characters are far more unique.

That being said, Wavebouncing and B reverse are monumental for movement options in SSBU (first introduced in SSBB) and they don't get enough credit.

>>714237318
Yes, Melee isn't going to die, and yes, Ultimate players will migrate to SSB6 barring some complete reset a la Melee -> Brawl.

>>714237318
>Ultimate can't even break away from it's watered-down, neutral-dominant interactions.

what is this supposed to mean? You want to zero to death every other neutral interaction?

>>714207115
Melia, with a similar art selection to Shulk. Let her summon different elements that change up how the rest of her moves work.

>>714237318
None of the games after Melee have their own fanbases, just people who buy the newest game.

>>714237719
>02D
Not necessarily (altho it is fun in 64). I feel since 3DS/Wii U the punish state has been absolutely abysmal, so once you get past 50/60% the exchanges become this excruciating drawn out neutral exchange where players are trading aerials every 5 seconds unless you're one of the lucky characters who has any sort of true combos. This is another, semi-related issue with recoveries being too strong in general trivializing the risk-reward of off-stage play for many characters; what would be gimps in earlier games now just become ledgeplay (with ledge mechanics favoring recoveries, too). I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that Melee is perfect regarding punish states and ledgeplay.. I think you can make a fine argument against them, but like most design from Brawl onward, there seems to be a conscious decision to remove the "unfun" portions ("nobody likes being stuck in a combo!") that tends to draw out stocks and leads to campier gameplay.

>>714205928
Literally the current permameta in VGC, that has to account for something
Also I lñike the entire "Heel" idea the cunt has, at least it ahs more personality that the other Alola starters and the Galar trio

>>714237719
Not him, but the flow of Ultimate is largely dictated by short neutral interactions because advantage and disadvantage are both so watered down. Watered down definitely feels like the correct phrase. The most consistent way to kill people in Ultimate in general is to force them to burn a defensive option and then punish, because you can't really preempt or intercept defensive options when the game is so fucking slow and things like air dodging (especially neutral air dodging), jumping (3f jump squat), spot dodge (5f spot dodge cancel), and even rolling are so safe. Meanwhile, you lack the offensive options to approach, pressure, or push advantage state unpredictably.
The result is that past a certain %, players are reduced to throwing out safe, auto-cancel aerials while trying their hardest to utilize what few offensive mix-ups Ultimate has.

What makes platform fighters and especially Melee good is that dis/advantage is so fluid and active. Both players are actively making fast-paced decisions even if they're getting their ass beat. It's why you'll sometimes see people pop off for recoveries. Ultimate just resets to neutral way too often because of way too many factors to list, and it's slow, boring, predictable, and restrictive.

>>714238881
I hate the "SSBU recoveries are overpowered" argument because that's a preference. It's a platform game. If you someone off the stage and barring low angled moves, if they didn't reach the blast zone, they should be able to make it back. It's a game design problem if the characters can't make it back, whether it's through the blast zones being too far away or the recoveries being too bad.

With the magnet hands, the stage controller now has to be aggressive to get the kill or they can play it safe and ledgetrap. The best players in the world clinch wins with spikes and early kills with edgeguards so it's not like it doesn't happen. Melee on the other hand, tune into a Top 8 and half the stocks are taken from edgehogs, that's retarded. Why the fuck would you want that? RotA2 follows in Melee's roots in keeping edgehogging but they overdid it with the recoveries so off stage battles don't look nearly as dangerous (but I can't tell what's going on) but last ages.

>>714239389
Hello Sakurai

>>714183319
>janky
this isn't a word and means nothing, stop using it

>>714239389
On the first paragraph, we fundamentally disagree. I get your point, but I like off-stage to feel dangerous for both parties due to the risk (gravity/fall speed and short recoveries). IMO, this is another reason to favor momentum conservation because it made deep off-stage play feel rewarding and gave players a way to navigate back to the stage without overpowering recoveries.

I do see your point about securing kills off-stage vs. holding ledge. I don't think Melee has perfect ledgeplay; the one feature I did like in recent iterations was removing invincibility on regrabs (I don't like a regrab limit, however.) I guess it comes down to preference. I don't mind seeing players fall to their deaths because they can't recover if most recoveries are tempered by gravity/fall speed/high predictability (for the good recoveries). It doesn't feel "unearned" to me.

I just want rollback for P+ hurry the fuck up retards

>>714238381
Some dude that made a few other xeno characters seemed to be working on a Rivals version of her, but I'm not sure how far along he is.

>>714182867 (OP)
Well yeah, that's a mod of Brawl.

>>714188679
Brawl is ass but respect if you can play that crap. Is Brawl Minus the game without tripping?

>>714240835
looks like she's holding a phone in the thumbnail.

>>714241107
>Is Brawl Minus the game without tripping?
Almost every gameplay mod removes tripping. Brawl Minus is the mod that makes every character broken as fuck.

>>714241643
I love how even project teams who wanted to stay truer to Brawl knew that random tripping was fucking indefensible.

It is me or they made that Moga Island area from Monster Hunter 3 as a battle stage in the trailer?

>>714220715
Just use discord.

>>714242531
It's an objectively bad design choice. No one defends it, compfags and casualfags alike.

>>714237310
Nintendo doesn’t do anything to you now you stupid melee tranny, you just want to feel oppressed.

>>714197730
Not available yet.

>>714202350
REX actually.

>>714239625
It's in my dictionary althougheverbeit?