So what happened here? One of the oddest ways a series had shifted.

>>714185279 (OP)
Decided to make it an action series instead of a CRPG.
Origins was the only good game of the series btw.

>>714185279 (OP)
Trend chasing, by-the-focus-group design and upper management idiocy. That, and past Witcher 3, we got to understand that BioWare writing was always cringe.

>>714185279 (OP)
complete and total identity crisis. each game felt like a different franchise, and all of them sucked.
>but origins was good!
ahahahah...no. no it was not.

>>714185279 (OP)
got taken over by activists starting from 2 onwards

I thought Inquisition was pretty good.

>>714185945
yes it was. kys jaded faggot.

>>714186002
Activists were always there. Just past 2015 they got no shackles to stop from going full retard.

>>714186068

>>714186142
i played it when it came out. it was painfully generic and was mogged hard by mass efeect.

>>714186068
Inquisition had moments, but was 5x too long. Most things past main quest kind of sucked.

>>714185279 (OP)
humiliation ritual
the fate of every franchise that you adore

>>714185279 (OP)
>So what happened here?

only the original is good and the sequels are shit
many such cases - mass effect being another one

>>714185279 (OP)
What's so odd about this? Every single sequel was a MASSIVE change
DAO -> DA2 -> DAI -> DAwhatever

>>714185279 (OP)
Lots of things but DA2 was where the series shifted to wanting to be more like Mass Effect which the rest of the franchise would follow. This meant a voiced protagonist which reduced the choices a player could make and more action focused gameplay (DA2 is technically a system pretty close to Origins but with different cooldowns and the wave system gameplay felt pretty different).
Frankly the writers themselves didn't always seem to know where they wanted to go and would contradict themselves all the time. Made it hard to get too invested since it felt like they'd just change things on a whim. It does make the absolute hatred for Veilguard a bit odd to me - most of the flaws were very present in 2 and Inquisition.

>>714186068
me too
>>714186317
that is optional, even though you have to do side stuff to advance the story it really isn't a slog, not in my opinion at least

>>714187245
This. Veilguard is, in many ways, logical direction for the franchise.

>>714187245
yeah but i feel that they tried their best with the voiced protagonist, especially in inquisition. there's tons of dialogue that is unique to your class, race and background. you get quite a lot of moments where you can elaborate on stuff like that in dialogue

>>714187852
I realised that and turboed the main quest fro about half of the game. Which ended in a whimper at the Corytheus fight.
> where is cory?
> <shrugs all around>
> le portal opens
> COME KICK MY ASS INQUISITOR, RAWR
Game of the fucking year right there.

>>714188237
Corypheus was the worst main villain of the games. For the flack Veilguard gets I at least gave somewhat of a shit about the elven gods. Cory was just nothing

>>714188116
I can agree with that. Inquisition in general is the best of the sequels.

>>714187245
I thought Veilguard was fine. The shit part was that you couldn't really be mean or particularly tough with Rook. That and it went full HR safe space mode the second Taash shows up.

>>714185279 (OP)
I liked Origins and don't like woke fantasy like bg3 or inquisition. Game recommendations?

>>714188237
>>714188360
true, corypheus never felt dangerous except for when he is introduced (but that fails to hit home since there is no buildup) and through the story you always see him fail, he never gets the upper hand as is typical in stories before you defeat the big bad in the final act

>>714188585
I'm currently playing it, and I think it is offensively average. Production values are there, systems are workable. Difficulty is customisable. Writing is 'friendship is magic'. On its own Veilguard is fine-ish.
Too bad they raped the lore and amputated the cliffhanger left by Tresspasser , which is the offensive part.

>>714188751
inquisition, you can role play very easily as a chud and the wokeness isn't showed down your throat.

>>714185279 (OP)
Decades of rot, where the old creators left, and incompetent fucks decided to make stupid polemics. DA2 was heavily affected by EA stupidity, and EA making random changes towards and away from multiplayer didn't help.

>>714185945
Hey, origins sucked, but Morrigan and Sten are in a different class than Taash.

7th gen killed gaming because the industry was at it peak but all the major studios got taken over by feminists within a single title release in gen 7.

Bioware for example attracted tons of negative attention from feminists for ME1's characters, enough to guilt trip the writers into hating their creation. When Me2 came out they were super pissed about generic model woman from the early 2000's being face scanned into the game. What they didn't notice was how they nuked all the romances and the women they did choose to be faace scanned were intentionally ugly.

>>714188425
i absolutely love it, it scratches my mmo itch. i've never liked online games so inquisition is perfect for that purpose

>>714186068
Inquisitions main issue was too much bloat.

>>714189217
Inquisition's main issue is that the writing is non existent and what is there is womenslop slavering over solas.

>>714189217
you can solve that through role-playing. ignoring certain companions and side quests that don't fit with your character and the game becomes more manageable

>>714185279 (OP)
It's kind of funny that Mass Effect also has the major tone shift between 1 and 2 but less talk about it for some reason, though it doesn't have the shift between 2 and 3 like DA does.

>>714187245
Gameplaywise Valeguard is probably the logical endpoint for what they wanted, it was everything else that was shit.

>>714189437
yeah me2 is almost a therapist/counselor role-playing game

>>714189093
>What they didn't notice was how they nuked all the romances and the women they did choose to be faace scanned were intentionally ugly.
Was really funny too since they specifically removed most femshep romances. It's actually kind of crazy how fucked over femshep is in the romance department.

Origins > Inquisition > 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veilguard
For all it's faults, it's very clear that they gave a shit when making Inquisition.
Something which was clearly lacking in Veilguard

>>714189217
True.
It really shouldn't have had so many open maps.
A tighter more focused game would have made it so much better.

>>714189792
this, i feel that the last good AAA-games came out around that time, at least from a performance standpoint man inquisition runs and looks great

>>714189963
Frostbyte is a good engine, but the game does have it's rough spots graphics wise, mostly when it comes to cutscene animations.

>>714185279 (OP)
>reddit writing in DA1
>worse writing in DA2
>who literally fucking cares because of all the DEI shit in DA3
>how the fuck did they make the DEI shitfest even worse in DA4
DA has just always been an abortion of a series thanks to the timing of the EA acquisition. thankfully ME, as bad as it got, was still middling by the time EA ruined it.

>>714189772
femshep was one of the main complaints by feminists, I guess because they think it's somehow rape?

>>714189792
DA2 honestly made me angrier than Veilguard did.

>>714190063
i agree but when you have such an amount of cutscenes its no wonder they couldn't polish them

>>714190160
elaborate

>>714186068
It was. Some of the series highest highs were in that game.

>>714190160
In what sense? That it's overall a better game but it's flaws keep it from reaching it's true potential while Veilguard is flawed from the beginning?

>>714190113
No idea, though is funny how the femshep narrative has shifted overtime to people not giving a shit about her to everyone(including bioware) saying she was always the best option and they always had her in mind as canon despite overtly giving her less options than maleshep. It's really noticeable with the 2 romances.
>both jack and miranda you are able to rekindle that love in 3 even if it's barebones compared to the other options
>jacob literally cheats on you and thane dies so no option there for femshep
Like actually comical.

>>714186068
This unironically but actually 2

the cassandra romance in inquisition is among my favorites in any game, truly wholesome

>>714185279 (OP)
EA

>>714189437
Because ME2 had good characters. That's really all you need to save your rpg, there are still lots of people who love 2 and Inquisition because there are some good characters in those games despite everything else.

>>714189772
Same story in Andromeda. Straight men get the most romance options, followed by gay women, then straight women, and gay dudes needed to wait for a patch to make a dude bi so that they could get the "romance 3 people" achievement without fucking a chick. Woke losers have always been hilariously out of touch with the audience and developers alike.

>>714186068
Inquisition chads WILL be vindicated

>>714189772
Romances are cancer in RPGs.

>>714190354
Jacob was just an odd character, IO don't know why every black dude in fantasy needs mommy or daddy issues

>>714190558
my brother, pic related is from two playthroughs

>>714190272
The removal of different races, the change to a voiced protagonist, the change to combat with the multiple wave system making combat a chore, an unfocused plot with passive protagonist, the game looks hideous, unlikable party members, horrible jokes at inappropriate times (mostly if you do middle option Hawke admittedly), demonization of the Templar order to make the entire conflict one of the oppressor vs oppressed.....
Obviously Veilguard shares a lot of these traits but it had the advantage of coming out after 2 so these things didn't surprise me whereas DA2 came out after Origins so it pissed me off a lot.

>>714191040
Exceptionally based

>reboot also acts like it's the explicit sequel to the last game
Veilguard isn't part of of the trilogy

>>714190728
As long as they are optional and not forced down your throat, they are fine.
The problem is that Bioware basically forces them on you these days.

>>714185279 (OP)
EA kept pushing real hard to turn it into an action game like Mass Effect. That coupled with the environmental art shortcomings of 2 and the absolute failure of DAI’s “tactical camera” shifted the audience from a CRPG fanbase to more of a VN fanbase. Veilguard in turn is an abortive live service beat ‘em up that tried to circle back round to that VN audience but had neither the character design nor writing chops to pull it off. Dragon Age devolving into a Superfriends hugbox is just sad, and the answers they came up with for all the mysteries set up by the series were boring and unsatisfying. Basically a combination of corporate meddling and complete turnover of devs (multiple times).

>>714191101
that's true but i don't feel that they demonized the templars, you get many quests and characters that shows both sides of the conflict.
>>714191138
i only played as a human rogue and then a mage in my playthroughs but i've heard that playing as an elf has a lot of flavor

>>714191336
Romances bring in the worst kind of normies to the game's community. Which then dominates the game's sequels with their whining.

>>714191498
It does!
Definitely my favorite Inquisition race

>>714191429
RATHER INQUISITION CAME OUT AND EVERYBODY THAT WASN'T A FAGGOT RETARD OR A WOMAN BOUNCED OFF OF IT
CAPS

>>714186068
fucking TRANNY

>>714190558
I rather like Inquisition combat once you crank it up to Nightmare+ and set up your party members to be self-sufficient as Tank, Archer, Ice/Barrier Mage and mostly ignore them. Doing broken rogue or mage DPS by yourself (Reaver is also okay) can be quite fun. It’s terrible to try to play as a party based crpg though. The party control options suck balls and if you’re constantly pausing in combat the giant environments become more of a core. Plus DAI has the denouement of Morrigan’s romance and she’s still the best.

>>714191784
the graphical artists did a great job, even though pic related is very simple graphically it looks so realistic, you get a sense of scale and distance that can only be achieved through artistry and not just raw graphical fidelity

Dragon age was always shit

>>714191845
It was very disappointing as a CRPG, but I was able to find the fun regardless.

>>714185279 (OP)
Just enjoy Dragon Age Origins as a standalone title is the best thing to do, if you romanced Morrigan then you even get a good enough ending by going through the mirror at the end

>>714192582
>$0.05 has been added to your BioWare account

>>714192582
As much as the open world definitely does detract from the overall enjoyment of the game, it did allow them to create some really pretty places

>>714185279 (OP)
The fundamental problem with DA is that it never had much of an identity to begin with, and it was literally dragged through every single one of the worst corporate fads of the past 10+ years.

It's actually quite fascinating for that reason alone. Every game is basically a time-capsule of the shitty trends of it's era. With the exception of Origins which was a call-back to trends pre-dating it's time, which is also why people have such fond memories of it, despite it being objectively pretty bad.

The point is: DA never had anything solid to build on to. At it's absolute peak it was a generic and barely functional callback to classic cRPG's with absolutely no unique selling point of its own.

After that it was consume by the Great Stupid of late Gen7, after that it was a symptom of the open world retardation, and eventually, a symptom of the pink haired STD of today.

At its best it made you nostalgic for days of better games. That is not enough to carry any form of an identity.

>>714193631
$0.10 has been added to your BioWare account

>>714193682
Sadly I don't think BioWare has that kind of money to throw around

>>714193739
for all the shit that game gets, corypheus's voice actor did a great job

>>714193916
They've always been good at picking good voice actors

>>714185279 (OP)
>Origins: made by ultra competent devs when the Bioware title was basically a golden mark that ensured quality
>DA2: cash grab made by B team that was pumped out too quickly
>DAI: made by entirely new team of untalented randoms and people who legitimately hate video games i.e. failed writers. Ruined the lore
>DAV: Stuck in dev hell forever, almost made live service game before completely starting over, any competent dev no longer even works in the company let alone the team, recruited any kind of they/them and xir/xem they could find, writing team ENTIRELY made of failed writers and people who fucking hate you specifically
this was unfortunately never going to end any other way

>>714185279 (OP)
First, it went to BUTTON AWESOME
then it was BUTTON FAGGOTS
then it was BUTTON BARVE

A series, that while never particularly good, owned itself so hard it's hilarious.

I liked Dragon Age 2.

>>714186068
Inquisition is a guilty pleasure of mine admittedly

>make a shit game
>know it will flop
>start marketing it as woke to try and boost sales because you live in a leftist bubble
>it flops harder
>now antiwoke grifters will shit on it until the end of time

>>714187245
>It does make the absolute hatred for Veilguard a bit odd to me - most of the flaws were very present in 2 and Inquisition.
Don't rewrite history. Past /v/ had taste, not like the faggots nowadays who parade Fallout 3 and Dark Souls 2 as misunderstood masterpieces.

DA 2 was shat about relentlessly by everyone on /v/ at release because it was objectively shit. I played it - and yes, it was shit. Very forgettable, very cookie clutter, a lot of reused assets, shit gameplay, etc. There is a sliver of a decent idea in the idea of following a party in the same city for years, but everything else was shit.

DA Inquisition was relentlessly mocked at release, too. Honestly I found it so boring I barely remember it or the criticism, which is maybe a reason for all the criticism.

It's just that a 4/10 video game followed by a 3/10 video game now has a 1/10 sequel. We went past "bad in every way but somewhat playable if you try hard" to that absolute banger of lol that is Veilguard.

And still 60k boughters on Steam, despite the history of past failures and the huge writing on the wall. Who the fuck boughted that shit. Certainly not people who played DA 2 or Inquisition.

>>714185279 (OP)
>dao
your typical og crpg
>everything else
awful action filled crap
btw inquisition has the ugliest characters in the series

>>714185279 (OP)
The series went to shit the instant DA2 was released. /v/ doesn't remember Hamburger Helper it seems like

>>714192828
>>714193682
is a bioware account even a thing nowadays?

>>714194623
I boughted 2 and DAI
2 wasn't great, but it was fine. It was unoffensive, which is still a downgrade from DAO, but I don't regret the money I spent on it.
DAI was dogshit though. Lore was dumb, characters were dumb, and like you said, above all else fucking BORING.
And because of that, and the obvious writing on the wall, I didn't buy DAV and I am filled with schadenfreude to this day about how terrible it did.
I'm fine with dumb fun, I'm not okay with ruining everything good that came before, filled with contemporary politics, and preaching from >people with nothing but contempt for the medium as a whole that all culminates in a boring mess.

>>714193665
the fade and the way it handled magic was fantastic and the qunari felt truly alien. the series has a lot of identity but it is squandered by the developers i feel
>>714193631
they did some cool things with the hub format, especially the area that changes from a stormy night into a sunny day with new areas to explore when you complete the quest to drain the dam.

>>714187245
Veilguard writing, and in particular the CHARACTER writing is fucking bland as shit. As much as I find Sera and Blackwall insufferable and actively avoid using them, at least the game is doing something with them writing wise and lets you actually react to their whole deals in various ways. For Veilguard literally everything is just a choice between “Humor Them,” “Encourage Them,” or “Encourage them (Let’s bang).” It fucking sucks. And that’s before you get to Taash and the absolute travesty of the complete squandered appeal of female Qunari in the series.

>>714195815
i'd probably buy the game out of morbid curiosity but thankfully my computer is too old and shitty to run it

>>714195815
>dragons don't have kings, they have queens :^)
>no notable female dragon in all of fiction
The only girl dragon I can think of is Saphira from Eragon.

>>714193987
what mod is that?

>>714196260
https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonage/mods/4666?tab=description
This one I think

>>714195028
We remember her. It's just that the vielguard writers are SO MUCH WORSE.

>>714196230
Maleficent. Tiamat. Lots of them in WoW. I’m sure I could think of more.

>>714195749
>the fade and the way it handled magic was fantastic and the qunari felt truly alien
Not really. It wasn't awful, but it wasn't great. The Qunari are very clearly the best thing in the franchise, but that is because they are quite literally the SOLE original idea on display, the one thing that portrayed some degree of actual imagination.

But everything else was just aggressively generic. Which is not inherently a bad thing. I'm personally not fond of what passes for generic fantasy these days, but I get that a lot of people enjoy it, and as far as DAO went, I think it more-or-less worked.

But it never was even remotely enough to carry the IP in any way. What carried DAO was the fact that it wasn't like Mass Effect. The fact that you had a whole party to control, the fact that it had actual proper dialogue trees, and the fact that the characters were somewhat personable.

Honestly, in terms of somewhat creative ideas, DA2 had more on display than DAO, by the sheer virtue of not being a save-the-world story.

But again, the core problem was: there really was no identity to it. Mass Effect, as much as I abhore it, had a world that was absolutely memorable and distinct. Not good, but it had a clear identity, enough to carry people through the progressively worse and worse writing and gameplay of the franchise.
There are people out there even today who will argue that ME3's issue was the ending, despite literally every second of that game being an absolute travesty - because of the sheer sense of investment that they had in the world.

But DA never managed to get even close to that. Even at its best, which was DAO, 99% of the experience was actually completely forgetable. Just a slightly different assembly to entirely generic elements with a Qunari being dropped into it.

>>714185279 (OP)
western developers just started expressing themselves very aggressively instead of making something interesting.

>>714196578
Not sure if Maleficent counts as a dragon, isn't she more of a witch that can just shape shift?
Tiamat definitely counts, though. I just find it strange to pull out the weird "dragons are matriarchal" when Dragons are one of if not THE most popular fantasy species ever conceived and is almost 100% represented in their hierarchy of males.

>>714197171
>isn't she more of a witch that can just shape shift?
Fairy technically

Rook is probably the worst written main character I've ever seen.
You don't have that connection of friendship with the companions like at all, you feel like you're just their therapist and manager who they barely tolerate since they dont invite you to the friendly book club or anything.
Not to mention the romances make you feel like a cuck since the companions are all written and designed for romancing each other, so if you have Neve and Lucanis in the party you hear them flirting and having better chemistry with each other than if you tried romancing either of them.

>>714185279 (OP)
I'd imagine a few things:
>Talented writers from the first game filtered out of Bioware after the first game's release.
>The industry was becoming more politicized as the series went on which brought all the problems you'd expect.
>Bioware as a whole became known for interpersonal relationship drama which they doubled down on with all their games.
>This shifted the audience from men interested in dark fantasy to women who just want gay sex simulators and DnD lite.

>>714196969
>Not really. It wasn't awful, but it wasn't great.
elaborate. i thought it was clever, making dreams to be the product of spirits who try their best to simulate human experiences but failing since they can only imitate, and not create. it was a cool way to explain why your dreams can be so weird and fragmented.

i don't know of any other franchises that tried to make magic seem as realistic and grounded as dragon age did. so many ip:s make magic too op and available without any consequence

>>714197774
I liked how The Fade is an actual place and since dwarves have no connection to the fade they can't use magic. Thought that was cool world building

>>714185279 (OP)
>dev gets bought out
>releases a good game or two
>management steps in to introduce get rich quick elements (appealing to the lowest common denominator and then whoring out for government money by shoehorning DEI elements)
>original talent departs
>game quality drops sharply
Nothing odd about it at all really.

>>714185279 (OP)
if you believe the """insiders""" evil EA ruined everything

>>714198162
and that also ties into gameplay, you can't play as a dwarf mage which is great, it makes the world feel so much more alive. they also did a great job with the andrastian religion, tying it into the fade with the black city and everything. they integrated religion in a good way without being preachy or demeaning and even letting you roleplay as a devout andrastian in inquisition with much flavor in the dialogue options

>>714198371
What other explanation is there?

>>714197774
>elaborate.
Maybe I'm spoiled by a long history of custom tabletop campaigns, but to me this isn't any more novel or interesting than say, the concept of the Immaterium from 40k being originally benign echo of mental states eventually twisted and ruptured by a civilizations obession with excessive experiences.

I mean I don't think it's a terrible idea, personally I'm very fond of any fiction that explores dreams in particular, but I have two main issues here: 1) I've already seen very similar things, both in various TTRPG's, and even in something like the Dreamsleave which I've learned about in relation to Morrowind long before playing DAO, and 2) it's never anything more than a rethorical prop in Dragon Age. It does not really construe the experience. The Fade sure as fuck does not feel dream like, neither are any of the elements connected. It lacks actual impact and presence in the story.

World-building isn't just writing down cool sounding ideas, it needs to be baked into the experience, and that is where DA absolutely cocks it up.
Also, I remember it feeling rather inconsistent, but then again, it may have been consistently, just consistently forgetable, making me zone out major portions of deeper lore nearly after reading them.

Either way, it's not that novel of an idea to me, which is a subjective statement, my expectations are likely very skewed, and it really isn't integrated well, which is not a subjective statement - the execution just does not communicate the ideas at all.

>>714198371
I mean EA didn't help the situation.
For as much as people want to point to new writers that didn't get the series and blame them there were several who had been at BioWare for over a decade. Sheryl Chee wrote Leliana and Wynne in Origins and she was one of the staff on Veilguard I doubt she wanted to ruin a series she was on the ground floor for.

>>714198573
Maybe that 90% of the devs were literal trannies?

>>714199136
Who hired them?

>>714198573
that their writing team were made up of Hamburger Helper Jr's and They/Them's and people who believe all media and culture should be subverted and that a tranny saying "we need to look natural, quick let's make out" is funny and not at all weird and cringy and gay

>>714199248
alright by that logic, where we just continuously work backwards, isn't it our fault for buying their games in the past and funding their company?
Is it our parents fault for giving birth to us?
Is it an economic boom started from the industrial revolution and recovering from the great depression and war spoils from WW2 that created an untold era of prosperity's fault for creating the culture that led to our parents being born and raising us in a particular way?
Is it England's fault for taxing the US and leading to the creation of the US?
Is it France's fault for fighting England in the Seven Years War, thus causing said taxing from happening?
It's an infinite feedback loop of "well someone caused this" we live in a world of causality.
I think instead of continuous game of pointing fingers backwards, we blame the people who actively did the thing. No matter what color your hair is or what mental illness you have, they could have said "alright, let's try to make a fun game with good characters and respect the lore!" but they didn't, so I blame those people.

>>714198726
i'm mostly comparing it to other video games, i haven't much experience outside of that but on it's own without comparing it to anything i think the lore is very solid. but then again im not so traveled when it comes to different worlds and ip:s outside of the handful of video game universes im interested in

>The Fade sure as fuck does not feel dream like
they had to try to integrate it into the gameplay in a way that didn't turn people of or go over their heads lore wise. i'm guessing you have to sacrifice a lot of creativity when it comes to making a product that will sell and make a profit, especially when ea is involved

>it's never anything more than a rethorical prop in Dragon Age
do you mean the fade?

>World-building isn't just writing down cool sounding ideas, it needs to be baked into the experience
do you mean the gameplay experience? if so i think they tried, for example you can't play as a dwarf mage since they don't have a connection to the fade (where magic comes from)

>>714186068
i wouldn't say pretty good
but it was definitely way better than i thought it would be back when i bought it for few euros on sale, Origins is still the king, i just wish the game didn't re-use so many fucking assets because it kills muh immersion in the setting.

>>714199072
EA also didn't do the normal EA thing of squeezing them to a tight schedule on the later games. Only demanded stupid changes. EA's not the reason why Barving is going to be a meme forever.

>>714187852
>thats optional except when its not
Retard.

>>714199828
Nice wall of text to say it was EA who hired the troons.

>>714200917
whatever you say bro, keep spending money to support troon hiring companies. It's all your fault

>>714185945
yes it was good and still is good. im the chad, youre the basedjak. based game enjoyer vs cringe game complainer. you see it in your head.

>>714200132
>i'm mostly comparing it to other video games,
As I said, my standards on this probably are unusually high because I used to have (and to a degree still have) a fascination with the concept of world-building and I consume a lot of it and pay a lot of attention to it. But then again, even if I compare it to games only, I still see things like Morrowind or The Longest Journey or Pathologic, not to mention Planescape, that just did so much better job of it. Hell, even Icewind Dale did a better job and that is a fucking Forgotten Realms game.

And yeah, I'm aware that a lot of concepts can't translate easily into gameplay. I mentioned the Dreamsleeve which is part of Morr's lore but to be frank, but to be frank I'm not even sure if it's explicitly mentioned in the game or if it comes from some of MK's blogs... but the thing is, even if your resources are limited, you have to maximize what you have. Morr and Pathologic are such a good examples of how you can work with very little to still incredibly effectively compliment the lore. The issue with DAO is that it really does nothing, aside from the Qunari, that would actually be imaginative.

And I get that was the point. It was the off-brand-bin FR game, a nostalgia trip into days of Infinity Engine. Just like Mass Effect was an off-brand KotoR.

But it still is a major problem when you look at the whole thing as a Franchise, rather than just a one-off experience. Because... there really is nothing to root the franchise in. And that is always a massive problem when you are creating something that is gradually developed over the case of many, many years. People will change. Later entries will inevitably be made by different directors, different artists, writers, designers.

You need stand out iconic elements, a thematic or aesthetic through-line to kinda keep everyone on the same boat.
And DAO just didn't have that from the very first entry.

>>714201843
You're right since the franchise has derailed. It took them ten years to release a new game after the original creators had left. But it seems very common, that franchises go haywire when the creators leave or die. Can you really keep an ip intact through decades and several generations? I'm thinking about the rings of power and how amazon butchered Tolkien's work, how do you go about making a franchise that will stand against many different writers and designers and their respective views?

>>714201003
Are you retarded?

>>714202938
>he says, while funding a company with tranny hiring practices
idk anon, are YOU?

>>714202736
>Can you really keep an ip intact through decades and several generations?
I think you can in theory, but it's very hard, and frankly, I often wonder if it's even a worth-while goal to begin with. Like my fascination with world-building probably started due to Star Wars, and that franchise arguably managed to maintain its core world-building qualities more-or-less intact until the new trilogy, even through many off-shoot branches, such as the KotoR games.

But looking back at it... I really have to ask myself whenever it wouldn't be better if they just left it at the fucking original trilogy, and then just moved onto something new. When world-building devolves into purely exercise in familiarity and tickling that "I recognize this so my dopamin levels increase", world-building can actually become a detrimental concept.

But then again, very, very few IP's ever grew into the size of Star Wars.

The thing that I actually find so fascinating about DA, is actually the lack of memorable world-building. Because since it didn't have enough stand-out ideas even for just one single game, it really became a massive trap for every single cliché, trope and (usually really bad) habit of its respective era. And that really makes it weirdly fascinating.
Shame that for the most of the experience, its also thoroughly unpleasant. It's like a museum trip except the museum is half-flooded by sewage. There are interesting artifacts there and you could learn a lot about the past there, and hell, some of the exibits may have been pretty cleverly put together... but you are still waddling through shit.

>>714203573
Maybe games oughta do what some tv-shows do, with a pre-planned story that will stretch over 2-3 seasons or in this case, maybe three games and then end. With well established lore and character arcs before you even start development.

>actually the lack of memorable world-building.
C'mon, don't you think everything with the blight, archdemons and the grey wardens are cool? or the andrastian religion? or does one become bitter the more you read and explore different lesser known worlds and universes that maybe should be more popular than they are?

>>714204217
>Maybe games oughta do what some tv-shows do,
Even TV shows often fuck that up when the run-time exceeds like 2-3 years, and those things have a far faster production cycle than games. At least usually.
Remember Lost? Or hell, Game of Thrones?

With games, there is the whole "keeping up with tech" on TOP of retaining relevance as a franchise (e.g. hoping your word does not start to bore people), which makes the process even harder than it is with TV shows or other more passive media.

And again, as much as I find the concept of creating consistent and coherent fictional worlds fascinating, usually I end up enjoying most of them due to one, maybe two works tops, and the rest... I honestly could do without.
Like TES, which is one of my favorite fantasy worlds. Except... I feel like I would have lost exactly NOTHING if Oblivion was never made. Hell, 95% of Skyrim could have been skipped too. Ultimately, it's really about Morr being so damn great and giving me reason to get sucked up into the whole world-building, than it being about the world-building so good that it carries other experiences.

And then you have the exact opposite, with games like Gothic, where the lore can suck a big fat dick for all I care but its still one of my all-time favorite games ever. Again, because cool lore can (but does not have to) enhance a suggestive overal experience, but that is the limit of its magic.

>C'mon, don't you think everything with the blight, archdemons and the grey wardens are cool?
I genuinely don't. But again: that is a me problem. I'm genuinely just tired of these tropes. There is nothing to them. Copies of copies of copies of something that once was a symbol representing something interesting but... what ever made them interesting was washed out in the endless cycle of copying.
Yeah, I'm very, very snobby when it comes to fantastic fiction. It's kinda my day job, actually.

>>714202736
They did it with the bible for the most part.

>>714185279 (OP)
>EA demanded a sequel a year later right after DAO
>EA wanted DAI to be a mmo which explains why its like that.
>EA then wanted live service DA which resulted in Veilguard.
Yes I know you hate the gay, elf stuff and shift from edgy western fantasy

>>714186068
it was real mixed bag
too gay, and too many mmo elements in it
it was close to being very good, something that cant be said about veilguard

>>714205232
>Morr
who's that?

>It's kinda my day job, actually.
cool, would you be willing to share what you do?

>>714205724
especially after martin luther rebooted the series and returned it to its roots. the lore had become too bloated with popes, antipopes, indulgences and so on

>>714189792
>For all it's faults, it's very clear that they gave a shit when making Inquisition.
i really liked how the DLCs were just a giant epilogue
you could tell the devs cared

its the last time bioware did

>>714185279 (OP)
they abandoned CRPG to monetize console fags. simple.

>>714206187
trespasser is great, the fact that so many of your choices get acknowledged and are commented on is great

>>714206596
Trespasser made me excited for Dread Wolf, such a shame

>>714206106
>who's that?
Morrowind, as in Elder Scrolls 3, I'm just too lazy to spell it out.

>cool, would you be willing to share what you do?
Sure, since it sure as fuck isn't bragging: I teach anthropology and linguistics, and within that job, on both departments, we have some "cute" classes focused on fiction. One of them is entirely about applying anthropological methods on movies, games and books notable for interesting world-building. It's fun, though these are the kind of classes that are treated more like extracurricular activities than a serious endeavor.

On top of that, I write reviews of books, movies, TV shows and occasionally games for local magazines. It actively pays less per-hour-of-work than doing nothing would, but I enjoy doing it and I have been doing it since I was a kid, in fact if it was possible to make a living out of it, it would be all I would do.

>>714206596
bioware looked at that and thought "no thanks" but then still decided to bring characters like isabela back

>>714206596
Trespasser's one of those DLCs I hesitate from praising too much because a lot of it should've been in the base game. Mostly the quality of life stuff like the golden nug and the ability options. ME3's DLC were the same way - all pretty good (barring Omega) but they shouldn't have been DLC to begin with.

>>714206835
i wonder why it took so long for the sequel,if they'd kept the steam from trespasser going i think what became veilguard would've been better
>>714207028
you ever try to get into the game industry as a writer?

>>714207531
>you ever try to get into the game industry as a writer?
Yeah. Unsuccesfuly, and for a good reason. Understanding something does not make one good at it. Being a good writer, and being someone who analyzes writing for living, aren't that much overlapping skill-sets.

I actually did once publish a book, got it to stores all over the country. So I feel uniquely qualified to say: I am NOT a good writer.

Also what litter literary skill I have is in my native language, my english is barely coherent, and since my native language is one that is only spoken by another few milions of people on the planet, that makes my potential audience and reach very small.

>>714207929
but you seem to have a good critical and analytical eye, maybe you'd do good as an editor or as a part of a team who worldbuilds a franchise

>>714207531
Development got restarted like 2 times because EA wanted DA Fortnite.

>>714186068
There were definitely good moments in it. Also Dorian was a surprisingly good gay character, Solas was an interesting villain, most of the maps looked beautiful (the Emerald Graves map is still the best forest I have ever seen in gaming), the music was perfect for the setting, and the lore was finally getting interesting. Its tarot cards also influenced fanart to levels people here can't even imagine: you couldn't browse tumblr, reddit, or twitter without encountering custom tarot cards every two posts, but most of them looked genuinely beautiful and creative, and that particular style even crossed borders to other games and fandoms.

The game wasn't perfect, far from it, but it gave fans some hope, especially because it seemed they were finally focusing on origins and races again (there were a lot of race-based dialogue choices, far more than people were expecting).

>>714185279 (OP)
DEI

>>714185610
Fpbp enough said

>>714209732
>mfw I realized the 7 of swords depicts Duncan

>>714210064
i dont get it

>>714210196
nigga got decapitated

>>714209732
good post, yeah the art direction took a step forward. dragon age 2 made everything too cartoony
>>714210239
i don't remember that

>>714210298
>i don't remember that
yeah when he's wounded and the dark spawn is running at him

>>714210382
still don't remember. and i replayed origins this winter. it's joever... the dementia has already set in

>>714210489
hey
just means you'll be able to experience the games again

>>714209732
I hate how they tried to bring this style back for Veilguard. They knew it was one of the most beloved characteristics of the previous game, and they even hired a famous DA artist to draw the companions' tarot cards, but they don't even hold a candle to those from DAI. They actually had to reuse a lot of the old ones for Veilguard, just like they reused Morris' Lost Elf Theme for the ending, since even Zimmer's music was an absolute disaster. They couldn't get ONE single thing right in Veilguard, holy shit.

>>714210542
true. that's why i wait at least a year before i replay any game

>>714210489
Don't worry, no dementia yet, anon. He isn't shown being beheaded in Origins, but that tarot card indirectly confirmed his fate, and fans were happy/sad to see him referenced again. To be honest, Inquisition was quite generous with past callbacks and references. Pretty much everyone is mentioned in it, and they even included Loghain as a Warden, a choice very few people made in Origins.

There was a small shitstorm when Matt Rhodes, one of the main artists, posted a "what-if" picture showing Anders hiding from Templars in the wilderness, half-naked and mad and missing a limb. It was just a random brainstorming picture, but Anders' fans went mad lmao

>>714185279 (OP)
EA bought them.

>>714211176
>but Anders' fans went mad lmao
ah so the mad radical with a spirit(maybe a demon by now) inside of him didn't turn out to be a wholesome chungus man just because hawke spared him, who would've thunk?

>>714186068
tried it a few times at a friends house and did not care for it, felt like I was playing an MMO with nobody else on

>>714209732
>the music was perfect for the setting
>that glorious opening track https://youtu.be/DFX7v83OTbc?feature=shared
>all the bard songs, sung both in English and French
>that lilting motif you heard at the start of the Temple of Mythal

Morris saying he hadn't been called for Veilguard again confirmed all my doubts about the game truly being shit. Gaider could be insufferable, but he cared for the setting.

>>714212045
one of my favorite main themes of any game

>>714212045
>Morris saying he hadn't been called for Veilguard
which is really ironic because the only memorable parts of Veilguard music wise was when it was using Inqusition's motifs.

>>714187057
/thread

inquisition angers me more than veilguard because it actually showed promise behind all the layers of shit

anyone who liked cisqueersition should neck themselves

>>714212045
But you don't understand. Bioware upgraded to Hans Zimmer. He certainly didn't get a ghost composer and slap his name on it

>>714188585
Yea it's funny because veilguard got shit on and didn't sell amazingly yet I thought it was a significant improvement over inquisition. I thought inquisition was pretty shit yet even here people were sucking it off

>>714186068
My second most played one after Origins but it is very flawed. I stil like the setting, there are some good story moments, the trespasser and dwarf dlc are great and I like some characters. As far as gameplay is concerned it is basically a brainless collectathon timesink. Think about it. Of the 10 or so maps literally only ONE is related to the story.

>>714217191
qt

>>714185610
>>714209848
This but even the first game was pozzed but not in a preachy woke way

>>714186068
It's no masterpiece but I loved the environments and some of the companions were based

>>714217547
qun t

>>714218194
sexo

>>714185279 (OP)
Inmates running the asylum

>>714185279 (OP)
Dragon Age is the most unessecary franchise in RPG history
There is literally no reason to make a franchise out of it, the whole series is just eclipsed by all other fantasy RPGs

The Witcher and Elder Scrolls are better and do more interesting stuff than Dragon Age ever did.

>>714195815
I liked Blackwall. I found it funny his writer wanted me to find him unlikable.

>>714219405
I mean he did kill a bunch of children

>>714219405
in my last playthrough i never got his approval high enough so i didn't get his quest, even though i took him with me on every mission.

>>714219703
So did Tom Cruise's character in Last Samurai (in his past).