Could communism really work in kindred society?

>>714228723 (OP)
communism is slavery - very inefficient system

>Could communism really work
no

>>714228723 (OP)
Fuck no, Vamps are even more individualistic than humans. They will literally suck each other dry just to get a bit more power.

>>714228902
Capitalism is slavery too, you're just a slave to earning money instead of a slave to the state.

Most humans are inherently greedy pieces of shit that always want more.
This is why communism will never work, no matter what you do or what you try some asshole WILL ALWAYS make it to the top.

>>714228723 (OP)
Superhuman society is probably the only society where communism could work to be desu with you.

>>714228723 (OP)
she's not a communist retard

>>714229319
How so?
Their egos would probably be super inflated, it'd only be a matter of time until someone truly powerful rebels against the notion of being treated the same as his 'lessers'

Nope, Socialism however, is

>>714229231
Why are you repeating this myth? Most humans do not inherently want to accumulate more and more capital. Thats just what rich people tell you so they can justify as to why they deserve to have "made it" and you dont

>>714229537
literally no difference between socialism and communism

>>714229040
>anon states a self-evident truth
>retard chimes in with "b-b-b-buh this is ALSO true!!"
why do anons do this?

>>714229040
capitalism is free market and works on incentive, surplus wealth is transferred into social programs which eliminated objective poverty

communism is totalitarian and works on enforced equality - everyone is kept poor - and enforced laubour = slavery

>>714229618
>surplus wealth is transferred into social programs which eliminated objective poverty
Except when its not anymore and neoliberalism erodes all social programs and creates a 2-class society lol. You have not the slightest clue of what youre talking about

Damsel is a retard. She hates the Camarilla, and wants to replace it with vampire communism... which is basically the Camarilla.

>>714229447
her ideology may not be red but my dick may be

>>714229581
Most humans are not willing to sacrifice something for the betterment of someone else's life, especially if the recipient his someone they don't know.

>>714229618
>surplus wealth is transferred into social programs which eliminated objective poverty
hahahahahaha

>>714228723 (OP)
Damsel is CUTE! And her retardation makes her even cuter.

lol no

>>714229598
Retard alert

>>714229901
>no argument

>>714228723 (OP)
communism can't work on its face because it requires equality and inequality at the same time.

>>714229616
Because capitalism is the actual mode of production we live under, while communism is just a theoretically envisioned end-state

>>714229991
Poverty is growing rapidly, social systems are being cut and less and less wealth is shared with the general populace. Are you going to deny that this is a thing? Or will you just say that its good actually?

>>714228723 (OP)
OP, she's literally insane with Brujahism. She can't think outside of whatever social brain damage she suffered at the point of being sired.
Strangely Nines has a sensible, modern head on him most of the time and just wants to stay free instead of take over or change everything, but I guess it depends on how extreme you were.

Also dominate, mating press, etc.

>>714229901
it is
just because you're a retard who thinks social programs = "provide for my worthless pathetic existence for the rest of my life" doesn't mean social programs don't exist
and the funniest thing is NEETs/nogs/illegals already abuse those social programs like they exist to provide for their worthless existences anyway

>>714228723 (OP)
It's like communism in the druggie community, sharing needles in stuff

>>714229731
these are 100% facts. objective poverty was eliminated. social programs are bigger than ever, you are living in a world of abundance thanks to capitalism

what you are angry at is inequality because you are just average middle class and not jeff bezos +bad governance, which is its own issue

>>714230304
i think nines got mating press'd by the werewolf

>>714230197
Now explain why poverty is growing.

There is nothing more talmudic than communism/socialism

>>714230563
"Abundance" but you can barely afford rent, groceries, etc.? Anon, there is material abundance and never-before-seen productivity, but its purposefully concentrated at the top. That is the purpose of capitalism, not a side effect

>>714228723 (OP)
Communism always fails, and ends with said capitalists they hate running the corporation called 'the state'. It goes like this
>the opposition group of the current regime want power
>encourage/fund the misfortunate/spiteful/willing to use violence
>have them take out the current regime with promises to let them led
>Kill them after to remove dangerous elements.
>The harmless people will praise the backer as peacekeepers
>Now Capitalists are in charge, with no threats

>>714230962
not him but groceries are dirt cheap, like you could feed your family for pennies if you absolutely had to. what people cant afford are luxury foods.

Vampires?

>>714231290
Where the fuck do you live for groceries to be dirt cheap?

>>714231440
literally anywhere, you just buy the cheap staple things instead of the expensive things. get used to beans and grains, you're going to be cooking them in large quantities.

>>714228723 (OP)
>Could communism really work in kindred society
Nigga it would be an even bigger disaster than on human societies. At least with humans you can pretend we are all equals. How are you gonna keep up that pretense when some elder can body you and 125 of your friend singlehandedly without breaking a sweat. You're basically not the same species.

Also kindreds are blood bound to their sire and to their bloodline. You might be a 13th generation Ventrue born 20 years ago and living in New York. But if the original Ventrue, who has been in torpor in his sarcophagus in a secret undeground tomb in Persia for 6000 years and whose curse has been passed down to you, suddenly has a bad dream, you're gonna be dropping to your knees and howling in pain from the psychic damage it causes you.

Vampires are all slaves. Slaves to their bloodline. Its even unclear to what extent they have free will.
You think it was your idea to go out tonight and bite that random in an alley? Maybe...Or maybe its some ancient crusty elder manipulating you through the blood and using you as a pawn for his ancient jyhad while giving you the impression you made that choice yourself and have free will.

>>714231440
Don't know her name, don't know her face, all I know is shes got an ass to rival Terezi.

You should really read more before you start your career as an internet revolutionary.
>Pirenne's Economic And Social History Of Medieval Europe
>The Periplus Of The Erythraean Sea
>Graeber's Debt: The First 5,000 Years
>Auzanneau's Oil, Power, and War
>Frankopan's The Silk Roads

>>714231619
Do you live in a bunker?

>>714232239
no but i am a bum

>>714228723 (OP)
There is no means of production in kindred society, they only live for human blood and they can't exactly pay for it. Their entire existence is based on predation and parasitism. No sort of monetary system like capitalism/communism can be applied to them.

The only real form of ownership in kindred society anyway is laying claim to hunting grounds, and I guess the goals of commie vampires would be to remove any ownership and let everybody hunt wherever the fuck they want however the fuck they want (which is retarded for obvious reasons)

>>714232276
What games do bums play?
and how?

>>714232365
well back in the 90s i was literally building machines out of dumpster parts but old OEM garbage runs anything into 2020~

>>714229581
>Why are you repeating this myth?
It's not a myth, we've had (and have) dozens of actual Communist countries now and every single one, was without fail, plagued by greed, corruption, and inefficiency, from top to bottom.

It isn't even about those things anyways. Everyone needs some kind of profit motive to work hard. Even if you aren't "greedy" you still expect to be rewarded in some capacity for your labor. Otherwise people will just do the bare minimum to survive and not one iota more.

>>714228723 (OP)
Yes. Vampires needs are pretty low, blood and shelter.
It wouldn't take much effort for then to set up a human farm in a flyover shit hole and raise humans like cattle.
The Masquerade is only really a problem because the vamps insist on living in major metropolitan areas and not exclusively feed on the homeless population
The Vampire dad from Twilight has the right idea, set up shop in a rural area as the only doctor for miles and you have quick and easy access to all the blood you would conceivably ever need.

>>714232436
>back in the 90s
Damn unc how old r u

>>714230563
abundancefags are unironically dumber than kids larping as communists

>>714232634
pretty old but i was a baby in the 90s or i'd have just stolen parts i needed from a library or school or something.

>>714232339
> vampires would be to remove any ownership and let everybody hunt wherever the fuck they want however the fuck they want
That’s sounds like what the sabbat is trying to do with vamp supremacy added in.

>>714229616
>>self-evident truth
Capishits just believe whatever they want to, huh?

>offtopic politics thread is up for 2 hours
>skg gets booted on sight
hmmm

>>714232823
I think you know too much and its in your best interest to stop digging

>>714232842
Okay retard if capitalism doesn't work and communism doesn't work then what does?

>>714232943
I don’t dig holes, I build bridges. Or maybe a nice causeway.

Can I make my Malkavian a friend to a Changeling?

Communism is bad because they send people to the gulag! By the way, isn’t Trump’s new Alligator Alcatraz based?

>>714229901
social programs usually mean someone else's pocket under communism.
communists always manage to know the LEAST about how their fucked up cult works.

>>714228723 (OP)
I'm beginning to think society as a whole doesn't work past a certain point. Ten thousand people maybe?

>>714230369
congrats on your issued rags and moldy bread line, comrade.
Excuse me as I, the manager of the program, retire to a champagne and caviar dinner.

>>714233160
Isn’t that a detention center for illegals? Are you really trying to compare people being sent to do hard labor for going against (or being perceived) as going against the government with people that are actually breaking the law?

>>714233178
Whos pocket do they come out of under capitalism?

>>714233160
>because they send people to the gulag
Yeah, never mind the reasons or context
Just that it happens
No one should ever go to jail

>>714228723 (OP)
I'm not take social lectures from literal parasites.

>>714233269
laws are just things the government likes/dislikes anon

>>714233290
The tax payer for government programs and donations for NGOs and philanthropic groups.

>>714233347
Hey man, Red's hot.

i might be exposing myself as low IQ here but i dont see the issue with capitalism. I live in a capitalist western country. I went to university, easily got a cushy job when I got out and now I make good money. Living in an apartment with my gf right now and saving for a downpayment on a house in a couple years. Everything seems mostly fine desu. Sure mass immigration sucks and the price of everything is rising but its not ruining my life. I can do my hobbies, play my vidya. My job is easy. I hang out with my friends regularly. Whats so bad about capitalist life and why is everybody complaining? Is it just a brown ppl thing where they want even more gibs?

>>714233363
A government is made up of people and in the case of the U.S. specifically the people elect representatives in order to make the laws. If you want to argue morality or ethics than I can give you a case as to why letting people in unregulated causes economic, social, humanitarian, and cultural issues.

>>714232996
Not him but any system designed by humans will be inherently flawed because humans are flawed. I don't think there is a solution to get around that fact.

>>714233520
Leftoid trannies who got a bug chasing degree and moved to the slums of LA just be complaining

>>714233596
So what, we're supposed to suffer our flaws and repeat our mistakes? forever?

The sad truth is that we are approaching the point where communism can work in human society through the power of AI. Which is why thinking people need to be extra vigilant toward commies. They are a greater threat now than they ever were.

>>714233520
just getting currency is make believe wealth instead of real wealth, they can steal the value right out of your pocket without ever lifting a finger.
>>714233557
lol didnt ask just saying a gulag is a gulag even if you like the government's idea of one. that applies to any prison though.

>>714233269
Everyone in the gulag broke the law too. In fact, if you know a single society in history that built prisons specifically for people who obeyed the law, I’d love to know.

>>714233520
How representative do you think your experience is, and why do you assume this would last forever? You even admit to observing negative trends in your post

>>714233480
>>714233347
I hate the bugman morality.

>>714233520
It’s less capitalism in of itself and more the by products of it like monopolies and shitty business practices. Mind you this is less of an inherent flaw within capitalism and more that greed is a behavior that exists. There are ways to curb the greedy behavior but they’re mainly suppressed by both the monopolists and marxists. The former wants to maintain their shitty status quo while the latter wishes to burn everything down and install a new shitty status quo. My advice would be to take the square deal pill and say fuck both.

>>714233290
the same as communisms, what bullshit are you talking about?
the money goes INTO someone else's pocket under socialism.
the government is retarded and inefficient the bigger it is, and it is always the biggest under communism.

>>714233786
I hate the Bugman as well, I just want to bang Red.

>>714233739
It’s not a gulag for the reasons I just stated. But good job playing your hand while admitting that you think gulags were fucked up.

>>714228902
So is capitalism.

Because they both don't work.

>>714233910
everyone in prison is a political prisoner even if their politics are retarded

>>714233823
No it's the fact that society is a hive system that enslaves it's participants. There is no working hive system, entropy will always overcome.

>>714233838
>the money goes INTO someone else's pocket under socialism.
How is this any different under capitalism? The state extracts wealth and then redistributes. Social programs, infrastructure, free tertiary education (if you have it where you live) are all indirect forms of putting money into "your pocket". Not sure what you're raving on about with the government being retarded and inefficient or whatever

>>714228723 (OP)
Probably. But vampires are factually and canonically even more retarded than humans in WoD since they're monsters so in reality it'd be even more fucked than human communism somehow. Probably something like forced diablerie for whoever the bigwig is on top to suck off underlings for more power

>>714233750
Many of them didn’t break the law, but were suspected of breaking it or thinking of breaking it. Meanwhile we know illegals broke the law given them being here is a crime in of itself. But keep coping. What were you unable to hang on /pol/ and thought it would be easier to push this shit here?

>>714233520
Retards blame capitalism for literally everything. When most zoomers talk about capitalism they really mean "modernity" or they are criticising life itself. None of them would accually be okay with losing their right to own property. None of them would want to work on a commune or whatever. They are just whiney faggots and capitalism is an easy catch-all word to use.

>>714233520
>Is it just a brown ppl thing where they want even more gibs?
there are always groups of low class retards who are short sighted and greedy like that.
There are also spoiled rich brats who listen to the cries of that group and decide that this means civilization must be torn down and rebuilt as THEY see fit.
Their own complete lack of understanding of how the world works, what the current system is doing, and thus what needs they will have to fulfill is never seen as an obstacle, either.
They have been that way since at least as far back as Marx himself.

>>714233823
>anti-trust laws are suppressed by marxists
lmfao keep telling yourself that

>Communism level
>based and morally correct music starts playing

Oh no I can't go outside during the day around all the normies and I get super powers being a vampire is so awful

>>714233970
>everyone in prison is a political prisoner
Is this really how delusional you retards have gotten? First you say all media is political and now this? It’s not politics that made the drunk retard run over a family of four or caused some guy to jack off in public.

>>714233765
>how representative do your think your experience is
idk but i mean i didnt do anything special. My parents are middle class. I dont think im privileged, aside from them being good people and not-divorced. I just sought a degree that had promising employment perspectives and that mildly interested me, then went for that. I dont get why most ppl cant do this unless theyre either retarded or from a very broken and fucked up family (which happens all over the world regardless of the political system)
>why do you assume this would last forever
Dont jinx me

>>714233991
because the real world is far more complicated, twit.
under your boogieman of "capitalism" the funds can be taken away, the program abolished for being excessive, and people can donate money ON THEIR OWN to a charity THAT ISNT SHIT.
they are not forced as part of an uncaring government machine enforced by uncaring government workers that will never be subject to major change because only EVIL dares criticize your NOBLE GOVERNMENTS NOBLE GOALS OF GOODNESS.

>>714234145
it is exactly politics to believe maybe they shouldn't go to prison for such obvious crimes and everyone in prison believes they shouldn't be in prison. idk about media, certainly ideological.

>>714234063
>anti-trust laws are suppressed by marxists
Who are you quoting? I never said this, I didn’t even imply it. But thank you for showing how marxist such as yourself seethe at bullmoose progressive and need to make shit up to cope.

>>714233872
I only ever seen her cartoon avatar. I wouldn't know.

>>714233991
>Not sure what you're raving on about with the government being retarded and inefficient or whatever
this has to be bait.

>>714233978
>No it's the fact that society is a hive system
If this were true then communism would have succeeded by now. As it is you’re showing that you don’t know what a slave is or what the word slave means.

>>714232557
>Vampires needs
The problem is we learn with the often self-destructive ambitions of those like Therese and Lacroix that "needs" don't factor much in the unquantified years of boredom and paranoia from vampire life.

They don't need fine clothes, furniture, buildings or control over things like media, but they want to, especially if it's a remnant of their past life. If Damsel seriously tried to lecture Isaac on how he has to give up the showy luxuries and influence he's gained in Hollywood for some imagined philosophical ideal the best that would come out of it is some short animated silent comedy film with a red wig clown getting the shit kicked out of her every time she opens her mouth.

The worst is the Downtowners having a little trouble with vital intel and back up showing up on time whenever she's around. She and the others were seconds from being blindsided and steam rolled by Lacroix and Ming Zhao because of all their time spent day dreaming and preaching instead of being practical.

>>714234218
>they are not forced as part of an uncaring government machine enforced by uncaring government workers that will never be subject to major change because only EVIL dares criticize your NOBLE GOVERNMENTS NOBLE GOALS OF GOODNESS.
Instead theyre forced to do corpo-friendly legislation with lobbying groups and pass those very same anti-consumer laws you probably denounce all the time on this very board. And lets not forget all the tax breaks and bailouts

>>714234063
https://jacobin.com/2021/07/antitrust-law-monopolies-small-business-competition-large-corporations-bigness

as usual communists don't even know themselves.

The past few years has shown me that politics is gayer and more retarded than I imagined.

>>714234243
>it is exactly politics to believe maybe they shouldn't go to prison
And that has nothing to do with the crimes themselves and more a skewed morality that is adjacent to it.
>they shouldn't be in prison
Can the people in prison argue as to why they should not be there? Because that’s not political that’s just a matter of law and ethics.

>>714234271
Look at her podcasts. Shes not bad. Tomboyish with a nice ass and Double-D Tiddies.

>>714229618
>surplus wealth is transferred into social programs which eliminated objective poverty
I could respect capitalists if you said you supported it because it's what's good for you but instead you dishonestly pretend it's good for everyone.

>>714234393
no. what they do is NOT donate to charities that are shit and vote AGAINST shitbags that waste money on worthless programs that they will be FORCED to fund under communism.
>you probably
fantasizing already?
this is the sign that a communist is in full retreat.

>>714234243
There should be no prisons. Every crime should be a monetary fine. The higher tier of crime should be punished by cutting off the middle finger. If another higher tier crime is committed after that its execution.

This eliminates untold amounts of human suffering, saves money, saves time, is better for society, literally everything.

No governments do this because people are retarded and cannot properly contextualize anything. So a decade in a concrete box away from the public eye is seen as a wholesome thing. But simply slicing off a mans finger and letting him go home to his family that very night is seen as somehow more cruel and inhumane. People are just fucking stupid.

>>714234275
True. I admit, it was a retarded thing to say. Hes right: The government stands in the way of corporations exploiting you in the most efficient way possible

>>714233692
Yes.

>>714234393
under socialism those bailouts would happen anyways, retard.
the companies would instead be government entities and thus not allowed to fail regardless.
do you people never think, or something?

Communism works in any society as long as the society is small enough that everyone is personally invested in the success and well-being of all the other members. It's how a family naturally operates, it's how a community of families can operate if they're close knit, past that scale not so much.

I could see it working on the scale of an individual clan.

>>714234634
>under socialism those bailouts would happen anyways, retard.
the companies would instead be government entities and thus not allowed to fail regardless
You are thinking of chinese-style state capitalism, not socialism

>>714234474
morals and ethics dont are irrelevant, even the common laws. the breaking or enforcing of those laws are entirely at the discretion of the state and its agents and the disagreements between those choices are inherently political. theres all sorts of checks and balances throughout the justice system and the implementation of that leans more towards ethics but it's political.
>>714234519
yeah maybe idc

>>714234683
Is it really that bad if I just realized that communism is a play on community? Which makes sense considering communism originated from a shitty sub a hundreed people community in russia, IIRC.

Hey guys, what about Monarchism? One King Vampire and Queen Vampire?

>>714234320
Oh ok, enlighten me?
As far as I can see, it forces you to comply to it's bullshit.
And at the barrel of a gun.
Sounds like slavery to me.

>people actually think communism doesn't work like other slave systems
Pure delusion. Society itself is a slave state. Were it not for density of population, it would not exist.

>>714234683
that is basically anarcho communism.
its a useless theory that no one can advocate for and be taken seriously because it just creates a power vacuum ripe for exploitation.

The only truly viable concept of communism requires a utopia already be in place. No scarcity of resources.

>>714234759
>its not communism its OTHER communism
no child, I mean communism.
china is nothing special, you just have no fucking idea how literally every attempt at communism larger than a tribe of retards goes.
The only use it has in modern society is as a tool used carefully to pool resources for very specific things that require the standardization a government can provide.

>>714234909
not if your education system is american. it comes from commune, specifically.
it really originated from retards during the french revolution (the kind who thought throwing bloody tantrums until plagues spread in the river filled with bodies was a form of government) and spread to worthless NEETS like Marx.

>>714234437
I still think Bolshevism is an anglo psyop targeting Russia and Germany in the early 20th century. It reeks of it.

I like how there are Chinese people in this thread that don't think their state is an oligarchy or a technocracy.

>>714235037
>power vacuum
i mean it also reserves unchecked individual power for anyone to take down such an exploiter. wild west shit.

>>714234437
it has always been this way. you just are learning to see how gay and retarded things are now.
a decade, or a century ago things would be just as gay and retarded, but in different ways.

>>714234928
There's only one King Vampire for me, and he's Cain (pbuh)

>>714235037
>no child, I mean communism.
Centralized capitalism is not communism. It wont become true no matter how many times you characterize it as such

>>714235171

>>714234767
>morals and ethics dont are irrelevant, even the common laws. the breaking or enforcing of those laws are entirely at the discretion of the state
If that was the case then murder would not be seen as a crime more severe than vandalism or destruction of property and rape would not be a crime at all given that it does not actually harm the state in any meaningful way. A person can be replaced and a raped person is still alive and able to do their job barring any mental trauma that comes from the experience. No it is based heavily in both morality and ethics as are many crimes.
>the disagreements between those choices are inherently political
You’re desperately trying to get away from the fact that the crimes themselves were not politically motivated and are saying that due to scruples with dealing with them that is what makes them political. Which is asinine given that it is the crime itself which designates the nature of the prisoner. One would not consider Bobby Sands to be on the same level as John Wayne Gacey.

>>714235114
>wild west shit.
the wild west disappeared because that fantasy you just dreamed about rarely ever happened.
its this thing called civilization.
people band together for shared interests and consolidate power.

>>714235176
>reeeeeee no my super special OC hedgehog isnt a sonic
its communism
your worthless distinctions are meaningless and have proven to be meaningless via the millions of lives that have suffered and been lost in the pursuit of your bullshit.

>>714234909
It's not even a community. It's just a nightmare.
It's like socialism. It's completely anti-social.
Or capitalism. It doesn't make capital.

They're all doublespeak. All of them.
Conservatism is never truly conservative.
Liberalism is never truly liberal.
Nationalism always ends up having globalist interests.

All these things inevitably fail at fulfilling the goals they ascertain.
This is just the nature of our universe too. It's a sad reality we live in when anything we want never really happens. It's the devil.

Best style of government for vampires would be National
Socialism/Totalitarian Dictatorship, look at Nazi Germany/Imperial Japan, probably the most socially cohesive society's in history at the expense of shit tons of human rights violations which I doubt vampires would care about much.

>>714235343
thats a lot of words to crash out over political labels not matching up with the politicians behind them.

labels are just that, labels.
People can put them on anything and they can be made to mean anything.

Elders and Methuselahs would have to be culled regularly. Honestly any vampire over under 12th gen would have to be culled.

>>714234970
It doesn’t, you do not need to work, you do not need to anything but if you do not you will not eat or be able to support yourself. But that has been the case for humans for thousands of years. If you don’t hunt or forage for yourself you’re going to starve. If you want to say we are slaves to our own biology fine, I’ll still call you a histrionic faggot but you’ll technically be right. But at the end of the day there is no inherent group mentality which draws us as a species to do something or follow any kind of unseen prerogative in the same way bees or ants would. No pheromonal bullshit. Just simple survival.
>people actually think communism doesn't work like other slave systems
Do you making shit up like this? Because I never said that. Have you taken your meds today bud? You seeing shit that isn’t there?

>>714235237
a person murdering or raping or stealing is usurping the powers reserved for the state by the state.
>>714235302
>rarely ever happened
thats the same thing as a vote then

>>714235108
All states on this planet are tho

>>714235504
no, people have voted quite often anon.
do you not know how voting works, or something?

>>714235503
>we could technically prevent anyone from starving but we wont because thousands of years ago we physically couldnt have, its the law of nature or something to that effect

>>714235434
>Best style of government for vampires would be National
Schrodinger is best boy btw.

A state that isn't national or sovereign is not a state.
Though that said, the rebellious asshole at Hutt River only just recently surrendered, so there was clearly some form of recognition of something pertaining to a state there, despite the dominating state trying to deny it's existance (because it was clearly a shitpost IRL to the point where the government couldn't even intervene kek).

>>714235504
It isn’t given it does not actually threaten them on any real scale. And as I said murder still be punished just in the same way that vandalism or destruction was of property would. As for rape it would do exactly what the state wishes and add to the number of people under its control pregnancy were to follow.

>>714235610
nta but the real reason world hunger isnt ended is because there are a bunch of retards out there that don't care and will breed endlessly if they have sufficient food, unless you start culling the population like china did to their own.

>>714235653
Why doesn't Seras, the superior vampire, simply assert herself and bang Schrodinger?

>>714235492
Close, but not quite.
Mother nature selects a common neural pattern in your brain which dictates labels if you want to get into it.

>>714229598
Only because of modern day leftists are retarded, leftists insist on ideological purity like how its mandatory to worship Marx if you consider yourself socialists. Despite the fact that Non-Marxist socialism was the norm prior to the Bolsheviks declaring that they would only provide aid and support to Marxists.

>>714235610
Are you just going to keep making these strawmen? At this point why not just admit you have nothing to actually say to counter what I’ve said.

>>714235672
punishment is usually irrelevant too, the same as banishing someone from participating in society.
>state wants
they dont do that

>>714235542
At the moment.. sorta.
All recognised sovereign states are.
The ones that are not are potentially not.

We call old regimes that wouldn't be recognised today "states" often in historical lit.
Mongol "states" especially get this treatment from memory. Something about recognising after the fact for the purpose of future formal states.

>>714235753
No, I am quite correct.
I speak of them as a sociopolitical construct.
Shared language that can and has been weaponized for far longer than any of us have been alive.
I have watched slimy politicians, highschool girls, and communists in general expertly exploit the use of labels to alter the way people think about other people and various things.

>>714235037
>its a useless theory
What I'm describing isn't a theory, it's just how small scale societies operate. See: any tribal culture.

>>714234204
>My parents are middle class. I dont think im privileged
Being born into a middle class family in a western country is privileged as fuck

>>714235108
well, based on the more recent purges by Xi it isnt a proper oligarchy anymore.
much closer to your typical communist dictatorship enforced by a technocracy under said dictator.

>>714235834
>punishment is usually irrelevant too
So you have no actual counter to what I said in my last post and now you’re just making shit up? Because if punishment was irrelevant then all crimes would just have the same punishment no matter what. There would be no need for any other if it didn’t serve some kind of purpose.
>they dont do that
So they don’t want more people thus adding to both population for both workers and military and revenue to the tax pool? Really? Get real.

>>714235782
Its not a strawman. You're born without being asked wether you want to or not, and then you have to work for the privilege of staying alive. This wouldnt be a problem if there were no other choice, but with modern productivity you technically wouldn't have to, atleast not to the extent you do now. So what is that if not slavery?

>>714235434
but who would work in the corporate slave camps though? humans or low ranking vampires, both?

>>714236016
>Its not a strawman
Okay, highlight in my post where I said those exact words. If you can’t then yes it is a strawman and you know you can’t actually argue what I said and need to make shit up to make this easier for yourself.

>>714235747
Hello? Schrod is a Hitler youth?
They have a yaoi rep, anon... to the point that Hitler had to intervene and get rid of Goring.

But ignoring the fact that he's a literal catboy as well...

>>714228723 (OP)
>could modern day slavery work, where all you do is work and will never own anything or be happy
No.

>>714229040
>a slave to earning money
Where is the chain around your neck forcing you to get a job?
In capitalistic societies you have a choice.
In communist societies the government puts a gun to your head and tells you to work.

>>714235961
you havent seen how tribes operate under various conditions.
the "well being of other members" typically just translates into "the well being who the ones with the most power cares about, as decided by the ones with power"
it gets worse when resources are scarce and the culture twists around short sighted gains.
every bit of excess is squandered on cheap thrills in some african tribes, (and any attempt to save resources for a bigger project gets the shit beaten out of you, so everyone learns to hide shit from each other due to a lack of trust) but the scarcity of resources in australia aboriginals during and before colonial times is the worse I know of.

Straight up cannibalism of the sick and infirm to preserve resources. The elderly, malformed or wanted infants, etc.
EVERY tribe in australia was doing that in one form or another, and people get assmad if you bring it up.

>>714236029
Probably both, if I remember correctly in the game, people with vampire blood diluted enough made you essentially as weak as humans but little to none of the vampire perks. In a real life situation I could see maintaining the masquerade just so people think their choices/votes matter in world politics when the reality is a few extremely powerful vampires control everything. Essentially what we actually have now but replace vampires with pedophiles.

>>714236320
No bro it’s like *hits joint* being a slave to the system, and like desire, we have to like break free.

>>714236014
punishment is literally irrelevant. in judgement theres still things like restoration and theres protection of society and then way way way way way removed there's politicians arguing punishment and deterrence who are writing laws in a vacuum before they are enforced or enforceable. its a thing that is theoretically desirable but it's completely arbitrary and detached as written and completely unusable as practiced.
>want
politicians want more people and they also want less people and they also want all the people and they also want none of the people. all at the same time, "the states will" is just market and political forces pushing in one way or another. it doesn't act efficiently or in its own interest.

>>714236320
Communists like to forget that the entirety of the soviet union was fed on literal slave labor until the 70's.
farmers were serf-slaves bound to their land and not allowed to leave, paid in a tiny fraction of the food they grew, and not even allowed to so much as acquire unapproved paint to prevent their equipment from rusting.

>>714236327
tl;dr you're a fucking pseud

>>714236327
>EVERY tribe in australia was doing that in one form or another, and people get assmad if you bring it up.
They can get mad, but can they explain why its a bad thing?

>>714235915
I'm talking primitive sounds and phonetics on the ear.
They're not as malleable as you may think. When making abstractions they might become more malleable, but they can relatively objective at the primitive level. That's the core of linguistics right?
You do see common patterns at a more macro level too sometimes too, like abstractions relating to common symbols like blood or the sun.
Be careful to assume all labels lack objectivity.

But political abstractions? Generally it's bullshit yeah.

>>714236208
... And?
That just means he gets to pet a real kitty.
While said kitty bounces ontop of him and crushes his pelvis.

>>714236460
>reeee don't you dare confront me with examples of how tribes actually operate!
and this is why I call your bullshit a theory.
its an ideal that tribes usually can only aspire to.

>>714236465
I am exclusively speaking of political abstractions here, sorry for not being clear.

And yet, the sun is ALWAYS the sun.
There's a CALIBRATION of labels that happens with human language. I guess it comes down to the rate of calibration and how easily it is calibrated.

>>714233692
yup until the day of judgement or gehenna i guess

>>714236320
>Where is the chain around your neck forcing you to get a job?
In capitalistic societies you have a choice.
You dont have one if the alternative is starvation or risky neetbux existence.

>>714235434
>>714235653
Some sort of feudal system would be better, it would be comprised of 3 castes, enslaved humans, ghouls and vampires.
Enslaved humans that do all the work and provide fresh blood form the base of the economy, some humans would be selected to become ghouls, they get paid in an amount of blood necessary to maintain their status and would serve as the main security force to keep an eye on the slaves, at the top there would be the vampire lords, they would have to pay a small blood tax to maintain the system working in exchange for full control over ghouls and slaves.

>>714236426
>punishment is literally irrelevant
I literally just said how it wasn’t and you can’t even actually address the claim and instead started talking about deterrence when it’s not about that but rather the existence of other punishments proving you wrong. Why do you have to latch onto shit that fails like this? Why do you think doubling down is going to work?
>politicians want more people and they also want less people and they also want all the people and they also want none of the people
So you can’t actually argue my point so are saying that because certain people disagree that the overall goal of the state and something that works to its benefit actually doesn’t.
>”the states will" is just market and political forces pushing in one way or another
Semantics, in the end it’s still the same outcome. Trying to say that it does not want what I have described would be a boldfaced lie.

>>714236463
they would spout some bullshit about promoting racist views of the current petrol sniffers, is my uneducated guess.
I wouldn't look down on the current tribes for their cannibal past, because its fucking AUSTRALIA.
Eating each other is unironically a safer choice than a lot of what grows and crawls and flies there.

Frankly they shown own up to it and rock that past as part of how hardcore australia is.

There is no single flawless type of guvmint, period.

>it’s just one bunkertroon having a tantrum
Why the fuck are they like this? Why do they have to constantly sperg out and the samefag for hours?

>>714236564
For me it's a tie between him and Integra.

>>714236675
>Some sort of feudal system would be better
Better for who?
The state?
Certainly not for the people.

>>714236764
I disagree, one where I am emperor is flawless because I said so. Behead those that reject this ruling.

>didn't Empress Wu do something like this?

>>714236676
>>714236014
>if punishment was irrelevant, same punishment no matter what
is just flat bullshit, theres no system in which that could ever be true. punishment serves a political purpose to a politician but not to a judge or criminal and the state can't give a fuck.
>overall goal of the state
is a fiction, not even sufficient for a pipe dream
>something that works to its benefit
does not particularly sway its actions because it doesn't have a will or a goal it has a process and that process will proceed no matter what.

>>714236769
2bh this is just a Hellsing thread now.
I got bored with the talk of politics because it goes nowhere.

>>714228902
Slavery isn't inefficient if you're good at managing your slaves.

>>714236572
>I am exclusively speaking of political abstractions here, sorry for not being clear.
Well as I said, if the label is so rigid and able to be calibrated perfectly and super regularly, it might have something.
If it could be as easily recognised as the sun maybe.

>>714237105
Slavery is the literal the root of the definition of inefficiency. What on earth are you talking about?

>>714237105
Slavery is economically inefficient relative to other systems, so if there's a competitor employing a better system and you both go to war, he can impose his system on you.

>>714236769
This is exactly the problem with any political discussion with someone who doesn't already mostly agree with you, it's just meaningless back and forth that eventually devolves into trading insults when they realize that there are fundamental differences that no one will budge on.

>>714236859
I'm talking about vampires, not boring real life politics.

>>714228723 (OP)
No, Caine was an anti-communist libertarian

>>714237224
You're a slave to money
No difference there

>>714237224
>Slavery is the literal the root of the definition of inefficiency
Ideology. Sniff.
>>714237275
>Slavery is economically inefficient relative to other systems
Slavery outcompeted citizen labor in Rome, it's inefficient in the US because niggers are actually pretty bad quality for slaves.

>>714237027
>is just flat bullshit, theres no system in which that could ever be true. punishment serves a political purpose to a politician but not to a judge or criminal and the state can't give a fuck
Okay, again then why don’t they just all have the same punishment for all crimes? And what the state and politicians are not the same now? If so why did you try to argue that one of the reason why things in the other occurred?
>is a fiction, not even sufficient for a pipe dream How so? You saying it’s not real is not sufficient.
>does not particularly sway its actions because it doesn't have a will or a goal it has a process and that process will proceed no matter what.
And the process itself is done and exists because it benefits the state. You’re trying to get around something only to find that you’re right back where you started.

>>714237396
So you're saying money is inefficient and a poor method of measuring the efficiency of the economy?

>>714237291
I wouldn’t say it’s meaningless. The point of these kinds of debates is to not sway the other but to show how they are wrong for a hypothetical onlooker. I am not attempting to sway the opinion of a dishonest ideologue.

>>714237418
>Ideology. Sniff.
Actually, it's entropy.

>>714237476
No, i think we should go back to the gold standard of using coins

>>714237546
I disagree, I think people that want to use coins at all should be put on a spike to make sure the same mistake never happens again.

>>714234204
you're probably some low standards faggot with a shitty job and a fat gf

>>714237627
Enlighten me on the mistake

Capitalism, Communism, Fascism, Feudalism – doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the quality of the ruling class/elites (and there is always a ruling group)

>>714237291
Not him but I sorta realized this with certain topics like abortion

>Go to religious private school
>Religious standpoint: abortion is bad because you are actively killing a human being which innately has value
>Left wing standpoint: abortion is fine because its just a clump of cells that doesn't have human level consciousness

Like the inherent foundational knowledge is interpreted so differently from one another that even with w/e perfect argument you come up with, you are not going to convince 99% of people to sway their thought on this.

>>714237418
>Slavery outcompeted citizen labor in Rome
Yeah but Rome was a near universal power at that time. If a system with a better system that didn't use slaves existed, it might have overpowered Rome.
Oh wait that did happen.
Anarchy. Anarchy killed Rome.

>>714237520
>but to show how they are wrong for a hypothetical onlooker.
4chan is a mostly ephemeral medium full of opinionated morons who are on average only bothering to read a sentence of what you wrote so that they can immediately write a kneejerk response based on a perceived flaw in your argument.

It's actually wildly optimistic to assume that there is even one impartial audience member paying attention in any 4chan argument.

>>714237724
just beg the other person to accept your views

>>714237680
Mistake?
Mate I'm not here to argue.
It's a demand.

>>714228723 (OP)
>
probably on like a faction level esp since vampires can just be parasites on human society and don't actually have to partake in the important parts of society building
but it also would be insanely impractical and irrelevant since half the point of communism is seizing means of production but vampire society and structure isn't based around factory labor or any sort of way marx could even see labor as so not it really couldn't just because communism was made for humans not vampires

>>714236771
I just want them to smash and have a big happy ass family.

>>714237428
the sentence for crimes is created before the crime exists and is directly related to the effects of that person continuing to exist in society. if it was somehow profitable to allow murders to go free then maybe they would go free even if it was simultaneously profitable to write laws against it. one or more of those forces may be the state.
>politicians aren't aren't the state
politicians, including criminals, all load the gun of statehood and try and point it at someone else. the gun will continue to go off whether it benefits anyone or not. benefits are never taken into consideration.

>>714237775
Absurd hypotheticals about what would have outcompeted Rome or the idea that it was defeated by a 'system' is a waste of time and totally speculative. Rome dominated its neighbors and made them its slaves, it fell because the quality of its rulers deteriorated.

>>714237692
>Capitalism, Communism, Fascism, Feudalism – doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the quality of the ruling class/elites (and there is always a ruling group)
All I see is an extinction event.
Pure madness. Any state with a ruling class becomes an extinction hazard.

We just saw covid mate.

>>714237785
Not really, we do not know who is lurking here and simply reading through. Just like we do not know who will reply and when. It’s like a sort of panopticon deal where there is always some hypothetical onlooker. Not to mention of this was not a thought that went through their heads they would not need to come here and spam and defend their ideas. There is value here. That alone is seen by the fact that they are here. It’s like going to a pond and seeing a bunch of ducks and then asking, “is there food for them”.

>>714237836
Demand for what?

>>714237785
there are always lurkers.
all the world is a stage.

>>714237985
Well actually, it fell because the quality of it's currency system and it's religious ideology maintaining the strength of the state deteriorated.
And anarchy took over until another cartel replaced it.

So it goes to show, constant anarchy is the only cure for this shitfest turning into another mob ruled cesspit.
..
Maybe I do need to check out old Trosk.

Communism: lame
Capitalism: borning
Fascism: pretty much pessimistic socialism also yawn
Monarchy: 1000 year Empire peak humanity

>>714237836
>people that want to use coins at all should be put on a spike
They tried to put me on the spike through their coins already btw.

>>714237940
>the sentence for crimes is created before the crime exists and is directly related to the effects of that person continuing to exist in society
How can a sentence for something exist before the concept of the thing itself? That’s like saying that you killed your father a year before you were born. One cannot exist without the other and there have been many times where people have not been able to prosecute crimes due to the odd or confusing nature of a crime or the debate over its actual status as a crime. But this has nothing to do with what I said in regard to there being the same punishment for crimes of the punishment was actually irrelevant.
>society. if it was somehow profitable to allow murders to go free then maybe they would go free

So you’re showing that the punishment is in fact not irrelevant and serves a purpose by the fact it helps the state profit in some way.
>politicians, including criminals, all load the gun of statehood
You’re contradicting yourself again, first you said that politicians were the driving force. Then you said they were separate, and now you’re going back.

>>714238332
woops meant for >>714238047

you understand that in a vamp society humans are the means of production

>>714238262
>Well actually, it fell because the quality of it's currency system and it's religious ideology maintaining the strength of the state deteriorated.
Rome had periods of existential crisis, economic peril, the mass depopulation of its cities due to plague, imperial overreach, political corruption, crushing military defeat, the mass execution of its rulers at Cannae.
Sometimes many of these things it once.

No. It's not 'the economy' that broke Rome. It was the accumulation of bad breeding practices which led to the increase in the occurrence of these crises to the point where it could no longer save itself from the brink of disaster.

>>714238385
states are in perpetual motion and need no driving force

I believe that the economic system of a society automatically arises from the means of violence available to that determined social group, it's a form of materialism, but instead of being based around production means like Marx, it's based around the means through which violence can be employed that are available at a given time.

For example, a caste based system like in medieval times comes from the fact that the weapons available for the most time required great skill, this means that a smaller group of elite warriors could place a larger population under slavery with ease.
If you analyze how society was organized back then, it was buit around military bases (castles) and followed what is essentially martial law.
When new firearm technology became available that allowed a large group of peasants to threaten and kill the King and his guard, the World changed.

Now power was in the hands of large masses of armed people, this gave rise the totalitarian States of the 19th and 20th century that could gather those huge masses under one guiding ideology, it's also the reason for the rise of democracy, each person has a vote, each person has that potential for political violence within them that is represented by that vote.

But technology is changing at a high rate and maybe extremely refined and exclusive technology will bring back a caste system with transhuman lords, maybe a new system entirely.

The fly buzzed with glee as it landed directly in the center of a fresh pile of steaming dog droppings. Without hesitation, the disgusting insect began its feast, eagerly sipping up the foul-smelling brown liquid and smearing it all over its hairy legs and body. It seemed to revel in the putrid taste and texture, slurping up every last drop with delight.

As the fly ate, bits of fecal matter clung to its hairy legs and body, encrusting it from head to toe in a layer of poop. But the filthy insect didn't care - it was too busy savouring the delicious excrement. It wallowed in the muck, rubbing its body into the mess to fully coat itself.

Finally, the fly arose from its disgusting meal, its body now encrusted in dried dung. But rather than clean itself, it seemed to take pride in its new coating of filth. It buzzed off towards its next destination, ready to spread germs wherever it went. The poop-eating fly was an unappealing sight to behold as it soared away, dripping with the remnants of its revolting repast.

The fly's feast on feces was the pinnacle of disgustingness and dedication to defilement. It went above and beyond in indulging its base instincts, gaining great satisfaction from wallowing in waste. The fly was a true lover of all things loathsome and repulsive. For it, no meal could compare to the taste of hot, fresh dung.

I think economics is BORING. Behead all economists.
At least I don't make the extinction convoluted and boring.

>>714238554
So you can’t argue that punishments are irrelevant or that you did not contradict yourself and are just going to deflect to a whole new topic.

>>714238741
i can.

>>714238618
I see you've been taking too much of Reg's brown pill.

>>714237418
>Slavery outcompeted citizen labor in Rome
First, that was pre-industrial society where the only thing that mattered when it came to labor was pure physical manpower. When it comes to industrial society and a commercial economy it actually helps to have workers who aren't illiterate slaves with no personal purchasing power.

Second, slavery was only profitable for the patricians and the plebs lived in fucking destitution constantly reliant on bread handouts by the government.

>>714238594
I believe what you’re speaking of is the monopoly on violence. Basically anyone who is able to hold said monopoly through iron and blood has control and can thus create and support whatever systems they wish.

Imagine, after fucking covid, still talking about economics like it could be achievable in any fashion without causing all of our deaths? It literally nearly caused our extinction trying to prevent our extinction.
Society is over. Let it die.

>>714236256
but enough about rentier capitalism

>>714238813
>First, that was pre-industrial society where the only thing that mattered when it came to labor was pure physical manpower
I'm not reading the rest of your dialectical bullshit.
Fuck you, you're retarded.

>>714238794
If that were true you would not need to do this. Are you going to turn this into a histrionic spite game where you try to make it seem like you’re trolling/don’t care to save face? Because
1. It’s obvious you’re not trolling since you only started doing this now when you failed to argue
2. If you didn’t care you wouldn’t have done all of this nor would you have continued to reply.
So yeah, there it is.

>>714239080
???
the fuck do you mean?

>>714239081
you could try re-reading all my previous messages and following that line of logic to a conclusion instead.

>>714239047
Subscription capitalism
WEF/Davos communism

All I know is you fags better not post smug anime girls at me...that would really piss me off

Remedy that anarchy is the only system that achieved it's goals because it's not really a system kek.

>>714228723 (OP)
No for the simple reason that older vampires can control younger vampires. You would have to kill all older vampires and then scrub their blood out of existence to have a ghost of a chance of communism working. And considering it took the full force of multiple supernatural factions that each have their own plot armor to "kill" just one of them that woke up its pretty unlikely to ever happen.

>>714238003
Covid burned up all the remaining political capital of the Managerialists. Anyway when has there ever been a state without a ruling class?

>>714238934
what happens when society dies?
what comes after?

>>714239202
What so so you can create a loop of going back and forth? If I’ve misinterpreted or argued something that you have not then you would have said that already. But you didn’t you just failed to actually give an argument. And now you’re trying to start it all over again in a desperate hope that things will turn out differently.
>following that line of logic to a conclusion instead
This is the conclusion, you being unable to argue your point and just replying trying your best to continue something that has already ended. In short you failed.

>>714239298
>Remedy
Huh?

>>714239448
Anarchy followed by various new attempts to recreate society and civilization. They all fight and face off against each other until one inevitably rises to the top.

>>714239448
The age of Aquarius (age of le fishe)

>>714239562
a endless cycle

>>714235117
Political ideologies aren't retarded enough; people care more about aesthetics.

>>714239529
It's a suppository, open up

>>714239762
Thus is life.

>>714239562
That's just warlordism
It's exactly what communist hated because they knew anarchist don't want to do anything but impede the creation of the state
They helped the Bolsheviks topple the Tsar.
Bolsheviks killed off all the other left wing groups during the left-wing uprisings against the bolsheviks to consolidate power
left-wing enemies were dealt with by the Cheka
Lenin and the bolsheviks killed off and destroyed the menshiviks, constituent assembly, malhnovshchina, burnatskom, nabat, green armies, black guard, narva and other various anarchists groups also the SRP, ARF, BDA, SFP, USRP and the Left SRS.

>>714236764
Digital direct democracy. Everyone gets a vote on everything and anyone can call a vote on anything. The true will of the people manifest. No middle men, no distortions, just pure efficient decision making.

>>714239370
Whenever they collapsed.
It's arguably always the state when you think about it. The people just need to know it.

>>714239936
>pure efficient decision making
>Everyone gets a vote
Lmao

>>714239448
Orgies usually.

>>714239529
Reminder*
derp

>>714239562
Mother of all omelets?

>>714228723 (OP)
I bet she has cute nipples

>>714228723 (OP)
Communism doesn't work. But it's so effective that people still think it's dead due to the faked collapse of the USSR by the end of the 80s. Today the former soviet states all live in some form of hidden communism or neo-communism. So that's kind of like the masquerade i guess? It's practically just socialism for the time being on the other hand with some veneer of capitalism and free market if we talk about most of the countries like Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, Hungary, Poland, Georgia, Ukraine etc. And Russia and Belarus closer to the USSR. Belarus and Russia still sings songs about communism conquering the whole world with big smiles on their faces. And in terms of how it could work for a kindred society? the TRUE communism that is Marxist Leninism is a natural fit for it. Since Lenin's ideology is amorphous, it's always the constant state of revolution and nothing else until world revolution is achieved. Lenin even thought to impersonate capitalists and get them on board with him.

>>714240102

>>714240105
There is hair around her nipples

>>714238882
It is related, but I see it as less intentional, people didn't think up feudalism, it naturally arose from the martial means available to humans at the time, by the same metric, modern populist ideologies come in different forms, but in the end they are based around the concept of employing arms in mass towards a common goal, which was made possible by firearm technology.
But things are always changing, the advent of high tech weapon systems could mean that only totalitarian State capitalism will prevail for stance.

>>714240161
Man, everyone just became a version of Australia, even China.
And look where that shit got Australia. That's your future.

Enjoy.

>>714239936
Absolutely retarded, you fail to understand just how stupid everyone is A digital republic could be based with the right rules to it though. A hierarchy where votes can be rescinded and moved at any time. You simply give your votes to the patriarch of your family. He gives his to the most based guy he knows in the community. So on and so fourth.

>>714239448
Unga bunga

No one here knows that I'm jackin' it in San Diego.

I just want to GRILL and enjoy my white monster energy drink

>>714232439
>actual Communist countries
what is bro yapping about
leninism was a mistake it literally killed the entire movement

>>714228723 (OP)
Wanted to fuck her so bad

>>714240494
Hey man, lets Grill together.

>>714241001
After I cut my yard then we'll grill.

>>714228723 (OP)
No, communism artificially limits people's individual capabilities for the sake of creating "equity", which invariably requires copious amounts of social engineering, which in turn leads to economic stagnation.

>>714241080
While you cut, I'll grind the meat. Shooting for 70/30 for patties around five inches wide, a fourth of an inch thick.

>>714228723 (OP)
No.

>>714231302
Vampires.

>>714234082
It sounds comfy when you put it like that, but you're surrounded by other, older, stronger vampires who do not have your best interest at heart.

>>714236675
This is almost exactly how the First and Second City were run, the only real difference is the ghouls were also slaves, just a higher tier of slaves.

>270 posts of nonsense.
I just want a Changeling game.

communism could work if we have unlimited resources

>>714242381
Changeling is faggy shit for theater kids. Being shackled via shared universe to all those other terrible game lines is one of the worst things about VtM.

>>714242381
I was just hoping for a Vampire thread but since we're on the subject, I'd love a Prometheus game.

>>714242381
>>714243358
For me it's Hunter: the Vigil.

>>714242992
To be fair the writers themselves couldn't decide if it was actually a shared universe or not to the bitter end.

Your table is under absolutely zero obligation to include anything or even acknowledge the existence of the other gamelines, no matter what OneWoD autists insist.

>>714239370
yeah a state presupposes classes you fucking maniac that's like wondering how you brush ur teeth wihout a brush

>>714233520
> saving for a downpayment on a house in a couple years.
i got bad news for you, retard-san