Thread 714252779

>he hopes Nintendo will abandon the open world style for the next Zelda game

Sorry to burst your bubble, but these are the most commercially successful Zelda games ever made. Reality check: outside the /v/ and YouTube video essayist echo chambers, everyone loves BotW and TotK and can't get enough of them. Millions of people are eagerly awaiting the next big open world adventure on Switch 2, while you will seethe about not finding an item inside a dungeon that lets you open up more rooms.

I don't hope they abandon it I just hope they have a new setting.

>>714252779 (OP)
surely they'll make a completely new map for botw 3.0

>>714252779 (OP)
I just want themed dungeons man, they can keep the open overworld. I just want 6~8 linear ass dungeons with some puzzles, a gimmick or two, a theme unique to that dungeon, a boss unique to that dungeon, and an item unique to that dungeon to collect, preferably I want all of these to have a throughline too, the item/boss/puzzles/dungeon theme should all match in some way and I want the item in the dungeon to be useful in slaying the boss and solving the puzzles.

So long as I get my dungeons I'm happy, I don't care about the rest of it. I will only be grading the game on how well it delivers on the dungeons.

>>714252779 (OP)
Why would I want them to abandon the open world? Zelda was always envisioned as an adventure game from the very beginning.

Link if he Texan

>>714254054
Based Dungeonanon. Best of luck.

>>714252779 (OP)
Open world is superior game design. Having copypasted dumb puzzles and fucking korok seeds as rewards for exploration is not.
Linear design is LAZY and technology advanced past that more than a decade ago, despite what contrarian subhuman virgins here say

>>714252779 (OP)
meanwhile I hope they scale back the open world and add survival crafting elements and online multiplayer. The tech is already there, make building stuff matter, let me spends hours crafting a really powerful but not so durable weapon, and attach it to the front of my monster truck.

>>714252779 (OP)
I want something that isn't foggy.

>>714254418
>add survival crafting elements and online multiplayer

Get rid of the zonai device shit. That was my least favorite part of TotK. Aside from a handful of vehicles I hardly use it. And I never use it in combat. Half the shit I tried to build had an abysmal damage output, cost a ton of zonaite or got me killed. Actually there's one time I use them in combat, using the RC cars to bait moldugas.

>>714252779 (OP)
They had their fun with homo Link. He better be manly as fuck in the next one.

>>714254947
I mean specifically TotK is perfect for battle royale. You can fly down into the map, be outfitted as any Zelda character, and the zone could even shrink to the point everyone has to head underground or up to the sky islands. Would be so fucking dope. As for the survival aspects, it would make a lot of sense given the current direction. The story can take place over a month, and there could be a large amount of traveling, the journey of it all, as you tackle the iconic and archetypal stuff. Goron village flooding, Zora domain drying up, downpours in Gerudo valley, Korok forest freezing over, ect. In each of those scenarios you would be using the immersive simulation to thrive and pull through, it just makes a fuck ton of sense. Craft warmer clothes or a moving fireplace van contraption, convert it into a boat and then a submersible to explore dodongo caves, use volcanic rock to power the engine and speed around the overworld, it would be so much more fun than any previous Zelda game. Multiplayer makes everything better.

I was interested to see what people would be building after the game has been out for a while. But most of it seems to amount to little more than an art project.

>>714255250
>zone shrink
They already did the zonai crap to appeal to autistic fortnite kids.

>>714255335
They shouldn't get rid of it, there's more that can be done with it, so much more. Imagine the "zonai crap" being used in a competitive match of 100 players for instance, that's just one idea.

>>714255571
No.

>>714255830
Imagine that some player is building up a strong fortress and popping shots out of a window. Then you duck behind a rock and throw a rocket and a ball and chain onto a shield, sprint underneath their bridge and activate and dequip the shield.

it flies up to their floor, the ball swings around and bashes through the ceiling and sends them ragdolling out the window. would be so cash

>>714255967
Sounds like a completely different game.

>>714256098
it's just battle royale in TotK

>>714254054
if this is what you want then bugger off and go play it

>>714256152
Battle royale is for fags. Go back to Fortnite.

>>714256296
Fortnite is incredible and TotK is only lacking multiplayer and it would practically be Fortnite.

>>714255201
>He better be manly as fuck in the next one.
Yeah just like that other time he was manly in... uh....

>>714256418
Twilight Princess

>>714255201
Just because he has a full head of hair and you don't doesn't mean he's not manly, baldy

>>714256482
Kek
I don't think there is any Zelda game that is responsible for more Fujo content than TP.

>>714252779 (OP)
I just want
>new map
>non-apocalyptic world
>densely populated cities inbetween large stretches of thick, detailed wilderness
>involved dungeons
>challenging puzzles
>storytelling like twilight princess
it would be the perfect classic zelda adventure

>>714252779 (OP)
I don't hope anymore. I started by giving up on nu-Zelda and now I've given up on nu-Nintendo.
Switched 2 a Steam Deck and it just made me wish I did that years ago.

>>714257371
As a Switch and PC owner I gotta ask. What do you people even use the deck for? Why not just put that money towards a better PC? Everyone I know that owns a Deck or a Switch almost NEVER takes it outside.

>>714257371
Posts like this do not seem natural.

>>714257482
With 3DS and Switch 1 I was kind of meh on the idea of portable gaming but having used Switch 2 I finally see. It's actually really comfy to play on a coach. I already sit at a PC at work way too much. But the screen the sound and ergonomics must be good. Switch 2 kind of made me wanna try out playing on a Deck or a ROG Ally to see how it would feel.

>>714257482
I value portability. I have a good PC, but the Deck is a companion device that I can play for 20 minutes anytime anywhere with instant sleep/resume, all the convenience of a console and all the capabilities and games of a PC. I've honestly started using it more than my desktop for gaming.
>>714257531
What's not natural is the Nintendo I grew up with going to hell and forcing me out.

>>714257619
>the Nintendo I grew up with going to hell and forcing me out.
you never had a chance anon

>>714256289
Zelda is about exploring a series of dungeons, finding a new item that gives the player a new ability in this dungeon, the dungeon then being a series of puzzles teaching the player the intricacies of their newfound ability, and capping off with an exam on this new ability in the form of a boss monster. As the game progresses these abilities will compound giving the player more options and providing the game with depth. Its also nice if the dungeons have a visual theme that makes them unique and stand out visually from the others. I really don't care about anything else.

>>714257619
I dont understand sentiments like this. It's the same damn Nintendo that it's always been. Were you permastuck as a child until recently or what.

>>714257717
>Zelda is about exploring a series of dungeons
>dungeons
Never been a focal point of Zelda, just a sacred cow. Zelda has been about exploring a world filled with mysteries. Any new abilities obtained were only for that end, and in instances could provide the possibility for more extensive puzzle design, which hardly ever was the case.
Dungeons can go, bosses with a repeating pattern can go, for a game to be Zelda it just needs the focus to rightfully be on the game world.

>>714257729
The hell it is. It's run by an accountant and an EA executive. Their games feel wildly different and they're far more directly assholish to just their basic everyday consumers. Nintendo has always had a bit of a mean streak and pulled some bullshit that they got away with for the same reason Disney does, yes, but they're way worse now.

>>714257729
The biggest Tendies always become the biggest Nintendo malders. People who were never extremely attached to Nintendo seem to fair better.
Same goes for Pokemon honestly. Every normie I know liked S/V, I only ever see pokeautists complaining.

I prefer open world zelda anyway desu

>>714257904
>Their games feel wildly different
in what fucking way do they feel different? seriously
>assholish
literal what?

All I ever see anymore are assholes who want to steal their IP's and piss and moan when Nintendo rightfully puts a stop to it. Entitled brats

>>714257729
Nobody hates modern Nintendo more than old Nintendo fans.
And nobody hates modern Nintendo fans more than modern Nintendo.

>>714252779 (OP)
>filters thirdies niggerfaggots
based

>>714257904
>Disney fag
>Characterized businesses like they are/were his friends
>"It's run by an accountant"
See? You literally can't end up like this without being a massive tendie first.

>>714257895
Don't care, didn't read, only interested in the dungeons. Thanks.

>>714258031
I'm not denying that I was a tendie, I literally said I grew up with Nintendo. I never viewed corporations as my friends, I just expected a basic level of respect and good products. Nintendo doesn't deliver that anymore.

>>714258078
>I literally said I grew up with Nintendo.
Tons of people grow up with Nintendo. That's not what makes them tendies. You had an extra level of obsession that cemented the delusions.

>>714258060
You probably can't even read, it's a skill in decline. Zelda doesn't require dungeons, and thankfully Aonuma isn't going back to that toddler era.

>>714257895
>Never been a focal point of Zelda
Bullshit.
And what had been a focal point of Zelda was a strong sense of progression and pacing.

>>714258078
They make good products, you seem to have outgrown them. Time to move on? shame you went with a Linux lol.

>>714258149
The irony here is you're getting offended by me on Nintendo's behalf because you are the literal tendie right now. You can project that onto me, I don't really care, I used to be like you, so I recognize what you are.

>>714258194
>what had been a focal point of Zelda was a strong sense of progression and pacing.
L O L

>>714258283
Pre-Aonuma slowly fucking it all up, yes. BotW's slop has no such concept of progression or pacing at all.

>>714258194
For starters that's not mutually exclusive with what I said at all, it complements it. Dungeons have never been the focal point in Zelda games. They've always been an obligation, an expectation, but never the focus. How come you never revisit them in virtually every game? When a dungeon is a focal point it looks like the Temple of the Ocean King. (players all hate this dungeon)

>>714258419
>Dungeons
>When a dungeon
Dungeons as a concept and feature were absolutely a focal point. You shouldn't have to switch to a single dungeon that you visit repeatedly to try and argue against that.

>>714252779 (OP)
Well these games can be better with just a few changes but they need the Triforce of Courage to follow through on that.
>entirely new world with new NPC creatures
>less repetitive quests
>dungeons per environment, not just 4-5
>each dungeon unlocks a new ability
they can do the open-world and satisfy most old fags

>>714252779 (OP)
who are you quoting?

>>714258527
Dungeons are not a focal point of the series, they are a sacred cow and don't need to be in the games. I thought Ocean King Temple was a pretty good example of a focal point, and judging by your reaction you don't like the dungeon either. The focus in Zelda games should always remain on exploring a game world.

>>714258203
>shame you went with a Linux lol.
It's been great, actually. Was worried, but after spending a month with it, it's literally just like a console, but I have way more options and control.

>>714258758
I'm gonna get an Xbox handheld, it'll be better.

>>714252779 (OP)
I want the big worlds but let's get some better monsters and NPCs holy shit.

>>714258797
That's cool, hopefully they've fixed up W11 by then.

Next Zelda game will be BOTW style open world (you are delusional if you don't think Nintendo is going to continue) but maybe it will be made by a different person other than SS, BOTW and TOTK so there's some hope it won't be for 3 year olds

>>714258705
>Zelda games should always remain on exploring a game world
Dungeons are that too. They were just Metroid puzzle boxes before that required to unlock a new ability to open the world up more. Even when they are linear, dungeons more than anything evoke exploration and discovery

>>714258947
As if we needed any more proof journos are cocksleeves for major publishers and rabid fanbases in order to ensure early access gifts and ad revenue.
Also, both of those have userscores in the mid to low 7s.

>>714259003
Holy cope Batman!

>>714259059
Yes, you are. The six journos who reviewed those, some of which have Nintendo in the title, are corporate cum guzzlers, just like you.

>>714259153
Xhe's fucking seething

>>714258282
Tendies can leave consoles, but they can never leave their Nintendo tier cringe behind I suppose.
Good luck fighting against your past anon.

>>714258705
I wasn't commenting PH's dungeon, I was commenting your argument revolving around semantics.
>Dungeons are not a focal point of the series, they are a sacred cow
Same as this. Basically you just saying they're not a focal point because you don't like them. Even Aonuma disagrees with you, hence the existence of shrines and divine beasts, crummy and neutered as they are.

>>714252779 (OP)
I'm replaying TotK right now on Switch 2, this is peak adventure gaming.

>>714252779 (OP)
herro
we make evelything open wolld naow
we wirr make Yoshi open wolld
we wirr make Dankey Kong open wolld
we wirr make Wii Fit open wolld
we wirr make Xenoblade open wolld
we will make Bayonetta open wolld
we will make Smash Blos open wolld
the next Shitch 3 tutollial will be open wolld too

prease undelstand
bows

>>714259267
And you, your present, anon.

>>714259423
The only one of those that actually happened was Xenoblade and that happened before he was president.

>>714259491
that's the joke, the pencil pusher has no clue what he is doing and doesn't even know what games they are making.

the next Project Zero will also be open world
and the next Mousou copy+paste fest will also be open world

>>714252779 (OP)
Your post feels a little false flaggy

>>714259574
I'm sure the OG Wii U version didn't pause the game, but instead you selected the item on the gamepad.

>>714259558
>the pencil pusher has no clue what he is doing and doesn't even know what games they are making.
So... you're saying he should have been making these games open world the last 8 years?
I think the only one that has been made open world on his watch was Mario Kart. Zelda and Xeno were before him.

BoTW/ToTK is here to stay. Cry about it.

>>714254947
Holy fuck that’s Fujimoto Miki. Do you like morning musume? This is from Hello Morning???!!!?? I did not expect to see this on western internet especially in 2025. >>714254947
>>714254947

>>714252779 (OP)
This game solely responsible for genshit and subsequent explosion of chink gachshit. I hope it dies a fiery death.

>>714259574
>menu opens on the exact item he needs

Yeah TotK haters are confirmed low IQ retards.

>>714259698
the other games were already in production

>>714258970
>Dungeons are that too.
Dungeons are an extension of exploring the game world, it need not be dungeons though.

>>714259336
I'm saying they are not the focus of Zelda games. The games aren't all "gotta go do those dungeons!" they're "I need to do this or that, and oh that seems to pertain to a dungeon in this region" it might look like semantics at a glance, but context is very important to understanding the difference being presented here. We already have what a game lacking in exploration looks like, it's riding a train to and from a dungeon to the other dungeons stopping at the towns. I don't believe you like Zelda when the focus is dependent on dungeons. I could use a food analogy if you'd like.

>>714260297
No they weren't.
Xeno X and BotW released in 2015 and 2017. Furukawa became president in 2018.
Iwata was president during both of their productions though lol.

>>714253118
Aonuma confirmed that next game will have a new setting after TotK released. TotK doesn't have a DLC in the first place because they've "done everything they wanted to do in that world"

>>714260443
Why does it need to be all or nothing? It was never all or nothing until Aonuma started floundering on his own and making games for his kid who liked trains and birds. Nobody would say the overworld is a useless waste that doesn't need to exist, but it's equally dumb to argue the same for dungeons.

>>714260575
Totk is the DLC

>>714260575
The problem is it won't matter where the world is or what it looks like if the core is the same. It'll still just be open world botw slop.

>>714252779 (OP)
theres nothing wrong with open world games, but modern nintendo is 0/3 at making a good open world.

>>714260475
Xenoblade has been open world since the start
Zelda being open world was an actual RISK

this Furukawa shit is now turning everything into open world slop, see Mario Kart

>>714261104
If Xenoblade has always been open world, then OOT is open world too I guess.
>this Furukawa shit is now turning everything into open world slop, see Mario Kart
Yes. That's 1 single example in 8 years. I'd hardly call that "everything".
But hey whatever floats your narrative.

>>714261430
Kong Shitnanza is open world too, literally a copy of Odyssey

>>714261430
>OOT is open world too
false
BotW lets you go to the final boss if you want it, and if you are skilled enough you can beat him.
can't do that in OOT, unless you use glitches and bugs. OOT is as open worldish as GTA.

>>714260780
Well, I replied to anon who wanted a new setting.
Not being beholden to BotW's Hyrule will let them rethink how they want to approach dungeons, shrines and such while still being open world

>>714261523
It's not and neither way Odyssey, numbnuts

>>714261912
it's a carbon copy, it even looks the same.
Pointless shit moons were replaced with pointless shit bananas

if you would show screenshots to anyone, they would say: "that's odyssey DLC"

>>714258461
I found both of these games to be incredibly boring.

>>714262037
plus they now added a skill tree, which is totally retarded.

>unlock double jump
>unlock double dig
wtf
Of course Odyssey had something similar
At a random point the game goes: you looked through the worlds already? well let me add pointless copy+pasta crap to them, so you have to do it all over.

>>714256349
Fuck off zoomer

>>714262220
dont hate the player hate the game, lulz

>>714260725
Because those previous entries got really stale. I think people who want them to turn around and do another "lock and key" design are out of their god damn mind. You lack vision for the potential in moving forward.

>>714262835
Then end the series and create a new IP. They don't because they just want to milk a brand. I think people who don't see that never really gave a shit about Zelda to begin with.

>>714252779 (OP)
surely they wont recycle the map a THIRD time right?

>>714252779 (OP)
I'm fine with open world. I just want proper dungeons back. Totk was a little better than BotW in that regard but not enough.

>>714262037
Ok, and what does that have to do with calling Bananza open world when it's not?

>>714262835
>You lack vision for the potential in moving forward.
I thought BotW had potential. The start was good at least. The rest was a meandering slog, but there was potential to fix and build off of what BotW did in future entries. But by this point it's beyond obvious Nintendo has zero interest in capitalizing on any of that potential because it would mean having to create structure and put more time, effort and money into something that people will mindlessly consume regardless.

>>714252779 (OP)
the problem isn't the open world you dumb nigger. the problem is that aonuma doesn't have the talent to make a good one

Is nu zelda worth playing?

>>714263149
The near universal critical and financial success of both BOTW and TOTK disagrees with your assertion here.

>>714252779 (OP)
>6 year development period for BotW, had to rush and cut just to hit the Wii U sunset date
>6 year development period for TotK, had to cludge something together because it was fundamentally still relying on being a Wii U title
Shorter 3-4 year development periods without open world slop are much more robust when it comes to developing games that aren't just indefinite passion projects.
The problem is that Fujibayashi has communication issues and a lack of self esteem, which interacts badly with the fact that Aonuma is an absentee manager with unrealistic expectations.
>>714254226
Open world is shit. If you can come up with a compelling and coherent structure, then it is always better than an open world slog. Connections from place to place are much more powerful than meandering around until you find another neon thing to interact with.
>>714257895
>Zelda has been about exploring a world filled with mysteries.
What is a dungeon, but a microcosm of mysteries? The creation of a sense of place and purpose can't be understated as a gameplay and narrative device when contrasted with finding a shrine in the openworld and just playing an insular challenge while you take a shit.
>>714260153
Then it still fails at the stated goal of encouraging experimentation.

>>714264067
We probably won't see a TOTK successor until at least the mid-point of the Switch2's life in like 2030. We'll probably get some small Zelda spinoff games remakes and remasters to hold us over but the next major release is still a long way off.

>>714262946
>Then end the series and create a new IP.
A very knee jerk reaction. Actually, just go all in on overworld exploration. Now that we have a return to its spiritual roots, lots of immsim elements, the possibilities are through the roof. No doubt the next entry is going to be incredible.

>>714263129
>The start was good at least.
The beginning, the middle, the end, it was a great game. It should elucidate how Zelda is a game series that is about exploration and discovery, and it doesn't require dungeons.

>>714264067
>What is a dungeon, but a microcosm of mysteries?
A portal test chamber, where players have to concoct theories to explain away their very presence. You can tell they need to go, because a vocal minority is screaming about needing them.

>>714264345
one will probably come alongside the movie in 2027

>>714263067
>Odyssey is not open world
haha, hilarious

>>714264674
>A portal test chamber, where players have to concoct theories to explain away their very presence.
Well-made dungeons in Zelda games can often have a robust sense of place and don't need that much explaining. You are describing the shrines from the open world Zeldas much more than you are dungeons.
BotW literally had a precursor race of Japanese game designers be responsible for everything, looking so far into the future that apparently a woman collapsed in front of them for want of a Pina Colada was an expected challenge.

>>714264741
Oh to be young again and so optimistic.

>>714264543
>No doubt the next entry is going to be incredible.
Considering the last two entries after botw sucked so hard precisely because all they did was lift the worst of botw's design decisions and aonuma is a total brainlet who has no idea why he lost goty, I highly doubt it.

>>714264980
Is Banjo Kazooie open world?

Yeah it’s likely not going away. Only hope for real Zelda fans is they still throw us a 2D bone every so often still

You are going to climb and you are going to glide and you are going to like it, Chud. This is Zelda now link will just have wings in the next game.

Yep this is what Zelda is all about standing still while your murderbot and four summons counter the opposition, triforce of courage btw
>inb4 you control the buttons you press

>>714264980
>multiple sandbox levels is "open world"
>super mario 64 is "open world"
Congratulations, you're the stupidest nigger in this thread.

I like every Zelda game equally

I enjoyed the plateau in BOTW and the great sky island in TOTK. So I don't think open world is fundamentally wrong. But I'm really crossing my fingers that they design the whole world as intricately as the tutorials were in the previous games.

>>714264674
>dungeons are isolated puzzle rooms the player has to explain away
>fucking shrines are properly integrated somehow
So this is how detached you have to be from reality to like BOTW...

>>714270069
What's with the forest temple in Ocarina of Time?
Who Knows.
What's with shrines in Breath of the Wild?
Blessings and the like prepared for the chosen one.

>>714270902
>mysterious overgrown castle deep in the woods
>obviously fits in with the area around it
>no questions raised about what it's doing here now
>questions raised about things that are supposed to be mysterious like what happened previously for it to exist

>shrine
>obviously plopped there at a time entirely detached from now
>no questions raised about how it wound up there
>questions raised about things that shouldn't even be questions like why this particular shrine is where it is

>>714271714
At no point in BotW did I ever wonder where the shrines, towers or divine beasts came from. It's all explained in the story.

Holy cope is this bullshit what you obsess over?

>>714257895
Botw tranny faggot thinks he has any room to speak on what’s the focal point of Zelda
Zelda on the NES had dungeons that are more similar to Zelda games before botw, braindead tasteless faggot

>>714271998
And that is the problem. OOT gives you a dungeon that justifies its location through its design and then raises interesting questions about what kind of history the world has. BOTW gives you the answers about the history of the dungeons, because they all have the same fucking answer, right away.
>b-but raising questions without answering them is bad!
Raising questions about elements important to the current plot and then leaving them unanswered is bad. Raising questions about the background of the world is good.

>>714272510
>BOTW gives you the answers about the history of the dungeons, because they all have the same fucking answer, right away.

What's it like being wrong?

>>714271714
You have to make up reasons for it >>714264674

>>714252779 (OP)
My ideal Zelda game is actually open world but maybe next time they can go for quality over an immense quantity of pure fucking garbage.

>>714272321
>Zelda on the NES had dungeons that are more similar to Zelda games before botw,
that's not remotely true, and it's not related to the points raise in the comment chain dumb third worlder

>>714272862
Why do I have to do that? It makes sense for it to be where it is no matter what reason I invent because it is an aesthetic match for the area around it. Unlike BOTW, where you need a story explanation for the shrines being everywhere and looking identical.

>>714273012
How many dungeons in Zelda 1 require a specific item to either access or clear?
How many in BOTW?

>>714252779 (OP)
They can keep the open world, I just want actual dungeons placed in it instead of 200 shrines.

>>714260575
So are we going to have a repeat of new world followed by second game in that world that wants to pretend it's not a sequel

>>714273389
Sorry, that's forbidden. Part of what makes "actual dungeons" is not being able to access them immediately which apparently means the entire game is linear.

>>714273167
>Why do I have to do that?
rhetorical? you did it because nowhere in the game is the place explained, unlike Breath of the Wild.
>>714273280
I have no idea where you're trying to pivot with these questions.
>How many dungeons in Zelda 1 require a specific item to either access or clear?
like 3
>How many in BOTW?
like 7

>>714273389
>How many dungeons in Zelda 1 require a specific item to either access or clear

Three. Dungeons 4, 5 and 8.

>how many in BotW

At least 5.

Can't leave the Plateau without the glider.
Can't access the water divine beasts with shock arrows.
Can't access the death mountain dungeon without using the Gordon.
Can't access the desert town without the troon costume.
Can't access the bird dungeon without the Rito

>>714273761
linear games fucking suck, glad we're passed that shit

>>714273761
>Part of what makes "actual dungeons" is not being able to access them immediately

Can't don't that in BotW or TotK either. Have you even played these games?

>>714256289
>game from 50 years ago
Explain why it's unreasonable to want a new one.

>>714274167
because god damn it Wind Waker sucks unless it's randomized, which makes it open world and removes cutscenes, and that results in emphasizing just how BotW evolved beyond it

>>714259574
I never spent more than like 3 seconds at a time menuing.
All you need is sort most used and sort highest damage

>>714273840
>you did it because
I did? I don't recall making up a reason for the Forest Temple to be there. I remember imagining a few, but I didn't feel a need to have a solid theory before the area could feel like it belonged to its surroundings. Unlike BOTW.
>like 3
You need the bow to beat at least two and the recorder to enter one and beat another. That's 4. Then you've got the candle to enter the one under the bush, the silver arrows to beat ganon, the meat to get to ganon in the first place... Zelda 1 had you going all over and collecting specific items which you used in specific places elsewhere.
>like 7
There are only five dungeons in the game. Four of them are gated behind a quest. Two of these quests involve acquiring an item with a genuinely new utility, and in both cases you only use this utility while approaching the Divine Beast, not even inside of it.
>>714273886
See above. Zelda 1 had a lot more item checks than you remember and that was a core part of the appeal. If as much of Zelda 1 opened up just from you getting to it as it did in BOTW, the only dungeon with gating would be Ganon's.

>>714275576
you did right here>>714271714 I thought, if you didn't then there's no reason for it to exist in the game unlike BotW

>>714275576
>There are only five dungeons in the game.
There's like 120 of them, dude

>>714275576
>Four of them are gated behind a quest.
gated..
>involve acquiring an item with a genuinely new utility
I thought that's what we were discussing
>you only use this utility while approaching
ok?

>>714276161
Point out where in that post I made up a reason the forest temple existed in the first place.
>if you didn't then there's no reason for it to exist in the game
??? What the fuck are you talking about? Do you think there has to be a specific, canonical explanation for who built a given structure and where, otherwise that structure shouldn't exist in the game? What the fuck? What kind of insane moon logic is this? BOTW gives objective answers to questions that don't need them and never did.

>>714275576
Here's a shocker anon, BotW is not a 1:1 remake of LoZ Zelda 1. For a start its in 3D.

But the appeal of Zelda 1, the thing that made it stand out in a sea of linear left-to-right slop, was its non linearity and lack of handholding. The gameplay is informed by nothing but the player's own curiosity.

BotW is closer to this design philosophy than any game in there series. That was immediately apparent to everyone the first time they played.

Everything from Zelda 1
>the non linear world
>game play characterized by player curiosity, exploration and discovery
>the use of items, weapons and abilities to progress
>the success reward of new items and abilities to signify player growth and progression
>dungeon gatekept by conditions

It's all there in BotW. How are you still coping this hard a decade later?

>>714276482
You say it obviously fits in the area, are you not explaining why it is, or assuming, or
You say questions arise about it, so, are you just being pedantic because it's a waste of time.
We can go back a bit farther and nail the goalpost down, it would be more fruitful.
right here >>714270902 what is the reason for the forest temple, who knows, you have to come up with it yourself

>>714276441
>gated...
Quest gated. Not item gated or exploration gated. You go and start a linear story driven quest to approach the divine beast.
>I thought that's what we were discussing
Two of the EXTREMELY few uniquely functional pieces of loot in the game are stuck within the plot of the quests to approach the main dungeons.
>ok?
If people are allowed to bitch out TP for not using the spinner I'm allowed to bitch out BOTW for not using the waterfall climbing armor.

>>714276875
I'm confused why you talk about there being a quest for the divine beasts. Earlier you mentioned Zelda 1 having a lot in common with previous 3D Zelda games, those all have story linearity to them. If you're talking about how you can just go inside and do dungeons in Zelda 1 with no story and such, there's no other game like that but like Zelda 2.

You do use the zora tunic outside the dungeon though. People "bitch" about not having a few more areas to use the spinner outside the dungeon in the overworld. BotW doesn't have those "problems" it's almost entirely focused on overworld exploration. You don't even have to DO the divine beasts.

>>714276730
>You say it obviously fits in the area, are you not explaining why it is, or assuming, or
The forest temple is an aesthetic match for the area around the forest temple. That is what I am saying.
>what is the reason for the forest temple, who knows, you have to come up with it yourself
And if the "reason for the forest temple" was just "someone built it to house stuff related to the hero a long time ago" it'd be much worse. On a subject that isn't core to the plot, a lazy objective answer is worse than an open question.

>>714277159
An aesthetic match? if that's all you care about then BotW is rock solid, no? It has consistent aesthetic. Besides, what I mentioned before I'm not talking about asthetics, I'm talking about a story, in-setting, reason for it being there, present in the game. BotW does that, and OoT.. It doesn't.
I don't subscribe to the belief that having a reason would make it worse. I'm inclined to believe if it required a reason, maybe we could have gotten a game without the forest temple. I for one hate the music in that dungeon. I hate all the block pushing puzzles. If we were in a timeline without that existing it would be better.

>>714277140
>I'm confused why you talk about there being a quest for the divine beasts
Because BOTW being supposedly "all about freedom" and then implementing some of the only times you get a major new tool as linear segments of quest is self-defeating.
>People "bitch" about not having a few more areas to use the spinner outside the dungeon in the overworld.
People bitch about not having a few more areas to use the spinner AFTER IT IS INTRODUCED. Not specifically "in the dungeon" vs "overworld", "when it's new" vs. "when it should just be a mechanic".

>>714277508
>BotW is rock solid, no? It has consistent aesthetic.
If the shrines at least changed what their glowing accent color was for each of the major regions, I'd give you that. But no. The fact that I can walk into any "dungeon" and it'll have the same color scheme and tile set as any other is not aesthetically matching any given dungeon's surroundings.
>I'm talking about a story, in-setting, reason for it being there, present in the game. BotW does that, and OoT.. It doesn't.
The level BOTW gives a reason for its dungeons to be in the game is "someone foresaw that this would be useful to the player character". That's nothing. I prefer no answer over that.
>actually I just think the forest temple shouldn't exist because le block pushing puzzle
Ah, so you just have a grudge? Cool.

>>714277868
>BOTW being supposedly "all about freedom" and then implementing some of the only times you get a major new tool as linear segments of quest is self-defeating
I'm not seeing it, because you aren't required to do them, unlike say Ocarina of Time for instance.
>AFTER IT IS INTRODUCED
as opposed to .. before it's introduced? Believe me I know people wanted to use the spinner more, I mentioned it in the comment you're responding to. BotW gives ample opportunities to use the zora tunic by comparison.

>>714278156
>it'll have the same color scheme and tile set as any other is not aesthetically matching any given dungeon's surroundings
why would it need to do that, it would be inconsistent for what the game says. If the game said something like "the sheika from this region preferred this other color" it would make sense, but that's not what the game says. It's very consistent if not a bit "plain".
>I prefer no answer over that.
I do not.
> Cool.
not a grudge, I distaste for it. it's comparable to you railing on against BotW.

>>714254054
>So long as I get my dungeons I'm happy, I don't care about the rest of it. I will only be grading the game on how well it delivers on the dungeons.
Zelda was never made for you. It was never about dungeons; the dungeons were always just there to facilitate the feeling of exploration and puzzle solving which is why the player spends as much if not more time in the overworld.

>>714253118
An ocean like Wind Waker, with mountain tops and forested landmarks sticking out above.

Being able to dive underwater and enter "Atlantis".

That's the kind of shit I want out of Open World Zelda. I was never opposed to the idea, I just hate how much BotW ends up leaning in the way of "JUST HAVE FUN, HAHA, SO MUCH FUN" than inserting more curated and interesting places in the world that feel truly secret.

Essentially these games are just "Myst if 3D & Action Oriented" to me. And the TotK hate thankfully tells me that even the mass-market audience for BotW aren't interested in the "Roblox" type shit or the Shrines necessarily. They want the same thing as the old Zelda fans: More intriguing stuff to find in the world.

>>714278647
>I'm not seeing it, because you aren't required to do them
Think of it this way: The only time BotW feels comfortable replicating the old Zelda experience of knowing you need to enter a location and finding the solution to it in a new ability is in a quest. Beyond that you get all your gating abilities before you can leave the tutorial.
>as opposed to ..
You said people just wanted to use it "in the overworld". I said people wanted to use it either in the overworld or in future dungeons. Because the thing people like about old Zelda isn't, contrary to your belief, getting one item per dungeon and using it to solve that dungeon effortlessly.
>BotW gives ample opportunities to use the zora tunic by comparison.
The hazard that makes it more than a funny convenience ends in the quest you acquire it.

>>714254054
TotK did this and they're pretty okay.

I want them to stop the "Press 5 switches!" thing though. You know they looked at the old formula (Maps, Compass, Small Keys and Big Keys) and threw it out intentionally, which is fine. I was never that amazed by that design pattern. But there's no way you can tell me the "Press 5 switches" and having a voice clip counting down every time you push one of them, is a great "dungeon formula."

They need to reinvent dungeons again, because the Divine Beasts/Temples from TotK ain't it.

>>714261606
>OOT is as open worldish as GTA.
I'm not sure that argument works in your favor, because GTA is famously an open world game. You can't skip to the end no, but that's not how you define open world in video games

>>714278873
>why would it need to do that, it would be inconsistent for what the game says
They should've made the game say something different then. Every "dungeon" using the exact same tileset and palette makes them aesthetically stick out more, not less.
>I do not.
Explain why. What about having a lazy, but objective, answer makes the game more enjoyable to you?

>>714254226
I kind of agree. Exploring Hyrule itself in the way you do it in BotW is kino. But that doesn't make having 120 Shrines that all look the same on the inside, and all have the same boilerplate "here's 1 orb" cutscene, great.

I desperately want a BotW where the "shrines" is part of the ready-rendered map. The lightning-puzzle in BotW's mushroom area is excellent. It's pretty boilerplate with Shrine orbs, and reminds me of the Poe Hunt from OoT's forest temple, but it happens OUTSIDE, and feels elongated as a thing you can do in the world itself.

Those were by far my favorite discoveries in the game. Ditto with the Trident puzzle next to Zora's Domain. But the disappointment is immeasurable when you clear it and just see a Shrine pop out of the ground. Same with the Mazes in the corners of the map, which all feel kind of ominous and mysterious, but all that's waiting for you at the core is a Shrine. But I liked that crazy Guardian room with the Flame Great Sword inside it that happens after reaching the Shrine in one of them.

I just want more shit like that. Also Eventide. I wish a whole BotW game was built around where you go in the map, and then each "place" you find has some kind of Eventide-esque moment. Not that you should lose everything you have every time, but that there's a very unique challenge from everything else in the game wherever you find something peculiar.

>>714252779 (OP)
Turning the next Zelda into 4 player nightreign would be the only way to have a decent openish world game. The system isn't as clear for Zelda though since there's not really anything particularly good in botw and totk but a multiplayer Zelda where people drop in as zoras, gorons and dekus could be neat

>>714272510
>oot gives you a dungeon that justifies its location through its design and then raises interesting questions about what kind of history the world has
Why does a fish have puzzles in it?

>>714264067
>The problem is that Fujibayashi has communication issues and a lack of self esteem, which interacts badly with the fact that Aonuma is an absentee manager with unrealistic expectations.
The problem is that Aonuma feels jailed to work on Zelda by the point when Fujibayashi even started becoming a mainline Director on the franchise, so Aonuma hasn't been there to mentor Fujibayashi into what's really important about Zelda if you're going down a new direction.

With TotK you can read parts of the dev interview-round where Fujibayashi can't really explain what Zelda is. He talks about having fun gameplay and being able to "think like puzzles" about making your own vehicles and says "That's kind of puzzle-like so that could also be what Zelda means."

He's arguing that you can do anything you want and slap "Zelda" over it and it becomes Zelda at that point. He needs to get replaced soon, whilist the company and the rest of Aonuma's team still try their hand with Open World stuff. But I'm pretty convinced that Fujibayashi isn't the right director for these, even if BotW is largely attributed to his process. (but so is Skyward Sword. The WORST Old-Zelda title.)

>>714280209
One thing is for sure. Whatever the next Zelda is, a large part of its conception is whatever has been mandated by the Corporate top of Nintendo, which is usually based on market trends now, just as how Mario Kart World was mandated to copy Forza Horizon because "Racing Games are Open World now." Minecraft and Ubisoft games "inspired" BotW, and you can tell they pandered to the Genshin audience with the Genshin Impactified look of the Sky Islands in TotK and pivoted to "Roblox" with the construction mechanics.

They'll be looking at what kids are playing right now, and what's trending in the larger space. So it'll most likely have some kind of Fortnite/Tarkov element, and I could see them totally fuck the franchise up with it, like making the whole game play like a shooter but with Bow & Arrow.

>>714252779 (OP)
I remember 8 years ago everyone loved open world and said old Zelda was too linear with too small of a world.
Now suddenly you all hate open world??

Dungeonfags are a blight on this series and never understood what it was actually going for from day one.

>>714282590
>b-but it's more faithful to the original Zelda!
And nobody even cared about the original Zelda except NES boomers. aLttP and OoT are what made Zelda what it is.

>>714252779 (OP)
Who's "he"? BoTW was one of the greatest games ever made, and for one of the greatest consoles ever made. It was the reason for buying a Switch, if you didn't already have one. Both were wildly successful, and probably way more successful than Nintendo expected.

>>714282938
ALttP has you spending maybe 20 minutes in its dungeons at the absolute most, not to mention the dungeons themselves are barebones as fuck, but nice try at lumping it in with OoT and its piss poor excuse for an overworld. If anything OoT is the outlier and I can tell you grew up with it because you don't understand what a Zelda game is.

>>714282938
>And nobody even cared about the original Zelda except NES boomers
Okay? NES boomers have better taste than you.

>>714283489
OoT is literally LttP but in 3D, sounds like you're just separating it based on your arbitrary standards and preferences.

Botw was a good game, bad Zelda game. Opening area was kino kinda fell apart from there. Open world with real dungeons or palaces (like LA) would’ve been kino. Also the bosses sucked versions of ghoma and horsehead would’ve been cooler than shades of ganon or whatever the fuck they were. I was fine with durability but the durability of everything should’ve been roughly doubled. It was all just formulaic eventually and I feel like you get the glider way too early being landlocked a little longer wouldn’t have hurt only helped. Climb glide climb glide hit mobs until time to throw weapon repeat got old. Still an incredible game but could’ve been even better. Haven’t played totk not sure if I ever will.

I honest to god hope Nintendo gives tendies the same world for $90 the next go around.

>>714283916
No, it wasn’t even a good game. The game incentivized you to avoid combat. Turned it into some faggy Ubisoft tower simulator.

>>714283740
>OoT is literally LttP but in 3D
No it isn't, OoT is OoT and ALttP is AlttP. What I said stands and it's telling you don't have a counterargument.

>>714284302
>The game incentivized you to avoid combat.
What? no. The game incentivizes you to git gud and not waste your more valuable weapons on trash and actively seek out the more powerful enemies that have stronger weapons

>>714284346
Your argument is basically "LttP is closer to Zelda 1 than OoT because I like it and because I said so" even though anyone with half a brain can see that every Zelda between OoT and SS traces their structure and DNA back to LttP. LttP started the Zelda you claim to hate, it's a fact that you can't deny.

>>714284595
Thanks for rewording what I just said and agreeing with me.

>>714284679
You quite clearly said avoid combat, I did not. Clearly you lack reading comprehension.

>>714284891
>oh wow a camp full of the only enemies 3 this $70 premium game has
>but they’re a different color so they are health sponges
>I can waste my good weapons killing them and earn garbage in return so I can open up that chest that has 20 rupees in it
>or I can just ignore them and not fight them
To the tendie this incentivizes combat. To the person who didn’t first play an open world game in 2017 with Nintendo Presents: Ubisoft towers, it does not.

>>714284670
That's not what I said, but thanks for proving that dungeonfags lack reading comprehension too.

Do TotK-enjoyers not remember games after playing them?

I liked the first sky island, but after that I was overcome with a feeling of "I've already been here before in BotW, why did I pay 70$ for this?"

>>714286351
The opposite is true, TotK haters don't remember games after playing them and seem to have a lot of brain deficiencies in general. Kinda sad that such a great series has attracted so many retards.

>>714286351
After that island, that was it. Every other island was small and destitute. They really blew their load on that first island.

>>714269961
In TotK they already did. The whole Ultrahand mechanic is that moment when you chopped down a tree to cross a ravine in BotW's GP, on steroids.

>>714286351
I find TotK have more "memories" than BotW did, and I did play BotW on launch week. Back in 2017 it wasn't the game I needed and I failed to see what everyone else saw in it.

Forward to 2023, playing TotK, I really zoned into it. I remember the Zora Waterworks or some such as part of the Water Temple lead-up quest, which felt like a true ALttP "classic Zelda" moment in the game. A very unique underground area inside the mountain of Zora's Domain where you have to raise the water-level by standing on rafts and stuff. I accidentally found it early and couldn't figure it out, only to return to it as part of the quest and if felt really cool. I also remember having to fix the Deku Tree at the end of the Story Memories content, so you go into the Depths and there's a whole path up to the tree-roots of the "Gloom Hands" which somehow became the first time I saw Phantom Ganon in the game.

A lot of the game still feels as boilerplate as BotW, but I think they managed to create "moments" better in TotK, harkening back to that "True Zelda" feeling again.