Thread 714312232

What exactly caused the death of arena shooters? I still remember when the next Unreal Tournament was coming out but then Fortnite got popular and Epic stopped ALL PRODUCTION on unreal tournament and went full blown into Fornite. Was that the final nail in the coffin for arena shooters? Quake Champions is still being supported by devs but I am not even sure how it is or if its "alive". What do you guys think? What killed arena shooters? Was it gregors shitting on people relentlessly in the lobbies? Was it high skill curves?

Side Questions: Any good "boomer shooters" on sale for the steam summer sale? If so, which ones?

>>714312232 (OP)
zoomies don't like them.

>>714312232 (OP)
>What caused arena shooters to die?
Dunno I still could play UT2003/2004

>>714312232 (OP)
UT3
I mean it wasn't actually bad, but wasn't as complete as UT2004. We all wanted a next gen 2004. The hype died after that, and every other schmuck made Quake clones, and Quake kinda sucks balls compared to what the genre could be.

>>714312313
I could too. I think the problem is that a lot of newer gamers need some sort of skinner box gacha hook and older unreal tournament and quake didn't have that. I know people who literally won't touch certain games if you don't sort of "gain" something for playing it. So like points or currency to spend on something or move towards something like titles or skins or nameplates etc.

>>714312232 (OP)
>cool cyber british commando
>faggiest overdesigned unergonomic sci-fi gun

>>714312232 (OP)
Drop in testosterone, high skill ceiling, the times moving on, etc. If the games had good graphics and were marketed properly you'd see a resurgence. UT was gaining traction again but the publishers pull the plug because it wasn't another Fartnite with bright colors to entice the infantilized masses today.

>>714312232 (OP)
The answer is Fortnite

>>714312232 (OP)
Too high a skill ceiling for casuals to even compete. Quakefags get mad if you say that titles like Halo, Counter-Strike, Call of Duty were more successful. Hint: It's because read the first sentence.
/thread

UT4 was very fun, the movement and graphics were spot on
It had no maps and no models but 2, but what was there was excellent, and a nice base to build upon. But Fortnite started to become the super cash cow and there was no point in pursuing anything else.

>>714312232 (OP)
Modern mainstream gaming audiences need retention mechanics. They wont play a game otherwise.

Arena shooters don't force you to play them. You have to want the rush.

>>714312232 (OP)
Nobody was playing them. Quake posers would say they did. I even checked someone one time saying they're playing UT4 right now and when I went to go check how many people were online at that moment? There was 12 total people online.

Arena shooter fags love to pretend they play their games, but they don't. They are the biggest posers in gaming. They would also rather play other games.

>>714312870
Do you think testosterone dropping changes what games people play? Honestly, I think the issue is that people don't like losing or getting their ass beat and getting better at games. People want to watch guides and basically start "good".

>>714312232 (OP)
UT and Q3 perfected the genre. Something like Slipgate might've had the chance to give it a small revival but the dev team just drove it into the ground.
And games like Fornite and co have psychologists on them working out how to get kids addicted to them which makes the fomo pull so much stronger that they don't want to try something else instead.
You gotta understand, they don't play it because it's fun, they do it because they don't want to be left out by missing some new skin or emote all their friends got.

people already bitch about not being able to deal with sweat in casual games like CoD, they wouldn't last a single match in UT or Quake
And the further we'll go the lower the IQ will drop to the point all we'll be able to play is Fall Guys and Animal Crossing

>>714313302
I agree with this sort of. I think player bases would remain stable if the bottom line of players remained higher. People won't play if they see some shit like 10 players online. But if they saw 1000, I am sure that would keep a nice drip feed of players checking it out. People think games need like 30,000 players concurrently to be "alive". But really it just needs a solid consistent baseline. I am guilty of what you said myself though. I told myself I want to get into quake champions more but I never did because it looks like the game isn't alive. I am guilty.

>>714312232 (OP)
A lot harder to control win rates to drip feed zoomers into buying skins.

>>714313483
Don't want to side track the thread but I will never ever understand FOMO. I never suffer from FOMO but I have met people who suffer from it terribly. Like logging into games they hardly play to get little pets and emotes. Like why? What drives people so hard to do that? Is FOMO a literal mental health issue that is being exploited? or is it just weak people who can't help themselves?

>>714313386
Look at tapes from the '90's when WCG was going on, the FGC, Daigo, Viscant, RX, Valle, etc, Arena shooter players Fatality and RTS/Korean Starcraft players. Even those fucking "nerds" look more masculine than today's troglogytes. Those players didn't bitch or whine, they fought through and so did many others. Today's players want to start games and already win them without trying or improving, it's a sign of a bunch of faggots. No one wants to learn mechanics or have the will to takes losses, wins and more losses while constantly improving. It's why the big three genres that takes skill are dying/dead, Arena FPS, RTS and Fighting games.

>>714312232 (OP)
Consoles. Although I'd say UT was better geared towards controllers than quake. there was no real way to translate strafejumping equally from keyboard and mouse to controller. you can also see why quake 4 went singleplayer route because they needed to release on consoles, even though that was one of the last times all the big pro names played its multiplayer on pc.

if an arena shooter launched today it would have rank based matchmaking so i dont get the skill ceiling argument.

>>714313830
I downloaded and uninstalled champions this week after reading about the backend upgrades. their biggest failure is STILL using a matchmaker when nobody plays their fuckin game. just use a server browser you fools

>>714314075
fomo works off the basis that you 'might' use the item, coupled with the fact that usually the item will never be available again. so even if your friends only play the game from time to time, it's probably a game they cherish so when they do play it they want all the options with regards to customization.

>>714313830
There are more people willing to:
1. get an original xbox
2. hook it up to modern displays
3. run an ethernet cable to it
4. modify the original xbox by ordering new parts like a compatible usb drive, a custom usb to xbox cable and using ancient windows xp era programs to transfer data to it
5. join up at extremely specific times every week
than there are people who wanted to double click unreal_tournament_4.exe.

That is what arena shooter fags have to understand.

>>714312232 (OP)
You just can’t compete with the zoomys love for battle royale, retarded skins, and loot boxes created by millionaire dollar think tanks to take advantage of people with addictive personalities. it’s over. the end of an era

They just need to release this as a f2p with some cosmetics
It needs NO work to make it run perfectly now

I feel bad for all the "modern" arena shooters that came out and subsequently died. Reflex, the one with the egg shaped characters, etc. I actually really liked reflex too.

Arena shooters are objectively shit and reptitive trash, boomers only like them cause there was no competition, once competition came(counter strike) that shit died away

>>714312232 (OP)
I don't know, were they even that immensely popular in the first place? I'm trying to think about what people were really playing back then. I used to go to internet cafes to play MP games in the early to mid 2000s and the only proper arena shooter people were playing was Quake 3 and even that seemed to be much, MUCH less popular than CS. I played and loved UT myself, played it with some friends but it didn't seem to be majorly popular beyond that.

If we're talking even later than that, I feel like CS ran off ahead even more and then by the time CoD4 came out if not earlier, arena FPS popularity was already mostly gone.
If you mean earlier than the 2000s instead, like the late 90s, the games were popular but at the same time internet access was less prevalent and MP games weren't as huge I think.

>>714316974
>the games were popular but at the same time internet access was less prevalent and MP games weren't as huge I think.
Q3 was very popular back then and, you know, QuakeCon exists
UT was successful back then as well, and it was the perfect device to teach people to use the UEngine

>>714317483
Yeah I know they were successful, what I mean to say is that MP FPS games when internet access was more prevalent seemed to reach another order of magnitude in players than the titles of the late 90s.

>>714316974
I think you're right about this. The fundamental reason people don't play these games is because most people just don't find them fun, at least in a long-term sense.

Maybe it's the realism factor that people enjoy more in games like CS/COD and even Halo to an extent (in terms of military-style weaponry). The arcadey aspect to AFPS might just turn people off from taking them seriously at a psychological level. I remember my sister walking in on me playing Q3 and saying "you're playing that game where you just run around and kill people." Like... the speed and pace make the game seem less serious somehow than CS where you just slowly move around and set up team-oriented tactics with clear objectives.

>>714318142
>where you just slowly move around and set up team-oriented tactics with clear objectives.
>CS
Like kek and lmao but also I get your point

It's on a psychological level maybe. Games that look more serious get the fantasy across. I guess if UT looked like grounded sci fi (something like Titanfall 2) would attract more people

>>714314136
Hell yeah! So based brother!
Here's your ALPHA (you) you random masculine testosterone-filled anonymous!!
>chad pic

>>714312232 (OP)
>>714312547
They had fuckall for content.
Same 10 maps, same kind of people, non-stop. Especially Quake 3. All it was was DM or TDM and thats it.

Atleast UT2004 had Onslaught to spice things up, and UT3 made it even better. Shame thats all there was to it. Granted, UT2004's Bombing Run, Assault, CTF, DD, Mutant were neat, but most flocked to Team Deathmatch and Onslaught.
IMO, Onslaught was the best shit UT2004 offered, and UT3 carried on with it. Except they needed more to it - more vehicles, more maps. And Epic did not do jack shit. Modders did. Add to it the fact that Epic went with Gears of War skin for UT3... it was not good at all.

Man, Unreal has such a potential as franchise and spinoffs - RTS, 4x, immersive sim, RPG, those Unreal Championship games, that Unreal 2... and they just fucking euthanised it all for a zoomer game.

>>714313302
>Quake
I want a Quake immersive sim. I want a Quake RTS. I want a Quake 4x. That Enemy Territory: Quake Wars was neat. The last thing i want is a Quake arena shooter that has nothing going for it but tryhards that tell you to git gud because you cannot do bunnyhopping or rocketjumping consistently.

>>714314075
FOMO is a form of psychological manipulation. Some people are more susceptible to it than others.
You should be angry with the people who use such manipulations.

>>714323210
>Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Fuck, I really liked that.

>>714316680
This post reminded me that I wanted to check out Toxikk as one of the only UT clone games. It's actually not bad, and somehow has 100+ players still so I will check out online at some point.
My inadvertent thanks.

>>714312232 (OP)
Splitgate is relatively popular. There are also plenty of other high-skill ceiling games that all have strong emphasis on fast movement and reflexes.
The problem with your argument is that your inevitable response will be that of no true Scotsman. Nothing will be Unreal. Nothing will be Quake. Therefor, no arena shooter can exist.

>>714312232 (OP)
consoles. consolization. aim assist. most players don't want anything but triple ayy games these days and no triple ayy studio is going to put money into a pc only game. gotta dumb down mechanics and movement and shooting for the masses to hit the largest "audience".

>>714312232 (OP)
too many cheaters

>>714314194
This, any other answer isn't getting it.

N64 and especially the OG Xbox kicked the door in enough to get attention from developers that FPS was finally able to be done on console, but it's the Xbox 360/PS3 era where it really took off. Most people play games on consoles, developers are going to cater to them when possible, and arena shooter gameplay is antithetical to being played on a controller. That's why you see the crazy sales numbers for console FPS, and it's also why the industry moved toward designing FPS for controllers first when it became viable.

overly refined formula that people eventually got tired of

my hot take is that games need to be a little shitty to be interesting

>>714324260
Apex was one of the largest BRs to come out and it had an insane skill ceiling comparatively.

i'm so confused here
if arena shooters died because the skill ceiling was too high, how did they get so popular in the first place?
were there just no alternatives? was the total fps playerbase so small that arena shooters took up a large chunk? or what?

>>714324748
Apex is weird and in a way sad case because yes it has skill but also it rewards playing like a bitch and the aim assist is strong.

I have 2k+ hours in the game and I tried so hard to "be cool" but every time you get beat to something cheap or just straight up rng and quit back into the queue and wait the queue, loading, charselect, landing, loot...... and then die to some bullshit again it's just... ok why am I even playing this game.

>>714325534
The skill ceiling thing is memed a bit I think cause even if you kinda suck, you can join a Clan Arena pub in Quake Live and get carried by the vets, and iirc there's even auto team balance. It's only in duel you'll probably suffer.

The reason it was popular is because Quake 1/World was a technical marvel at the time and essentially the first online multiplayer fps.

Just look at the adoration of the people here and you can understand. https://youtu.be/lxUQhy7JbUI?t=213

So can we say for certain that arena shooters are a dead genre? Halo, the most popular and one with the most casual appeal, is just a shadow of itself.

FPS games have been the most stagnant shit to ever be created as far as video games go

>>714327641
fighting games are going backwards.

>>714312232 (OP)
>What exactly caused the death of arena shooters?
Splatoon is right there anon

>>714328213
splatoon is playing below 60fps with p2p connections that doesn't sound enjoyable

>>714325534
Skill ceiling is high, but the skill floor used to be low enough that noobs could still have a good time in pubs. Why? 16-player servers instead of 8 or less like Champions does. Noobs got shit on in 1 vs 1 duels still, but they could still get a few frags in the chaos of a high population server. A full, high population server is the multiplayer equivalent of playing on easy mode, a necessary setting for the noob to learn at a leisurely pace.

>>714312232 (OP)
Like RTS, it just died a natural death

>>714328361
Somehow doesn't invalidate the fun I've been having.

>>714313302
fucking hell i'm the same age as totalbiscuit when he died

>>714325534
>how did they get so popular in the first place?
As the other anon said quake was pretty much the first ever online FPS game, a pretty revolutionary step for gaming at the time. Once the novelty of the tech wore off the casuals moved onto the next big tech leap and only the hardcore remained.

>>714312232 (OP)
Gameplay loops are gay as shit

>>714312232 (OP)
lack of swag to unlock.

>>714327559
Speaking of Halo, if that Halo 1 remake ends being shit (most likely considering its 343), they gotta let the IP die.

>>714312232 (OP)
>What killed arena shooters?
CoD. COD took arena shooter formula and made it mainstream. Fast TTK, loadouts, customization, progression are aspects not found in classical arena shooters. Look at Splitgate 2, it has most aspects yet still failing because TTK is slow.

>>714333094
>COD took arena shooter formula and made it mainstream. Fast TTK, loadouts, customization, progression are aspects not found in classical arena shooters.
That's because COD is nothing like arena shooters.

>>714333905
>That's because COD is nothing like arena shooters.
False

>>714316947
>reptitive trash
>Counter Strike
Brother you've been playing same map(Dust_2) with same weapons(M4A1, AK47, AWP) for the last 20 years and you are calling arena shooters as repetitive trash?

>>714322927
Torlan sucked balls

I said it. It's true. It sucked balls and was cancer.

>>714334848
>>714316947
This
Counter Strike is Dust2 and AKs with M4s, everyone, all the time
I haven't played a more repetitive shooter ever, i don't get Counter Strike. It is bland as fuck.

>>714312232 (OP)
UT2004 makes me so hard
People has been missing these thrills. This is peak video gaming, you have to try it to understand it

>>714312232 (OP)
The fact they suck.

Im an oldfag so I will try and answer.
They didnt evolve past a certain point. The logical thing to do would follow in the path of UT2004 and Tribes games. Focus on bigger maps and objectives that let shit players still contribute something, or just have fun zooming around.
Every arena shooter after a certain point was just trying to remake Quake 3 over and over.
And on top of this the arena developers listened to the siren voices of the 'hardcore' players who were never actually that numerous to begin with. When arena shooters were big the majority of people were dicking around in bigger games, using weird mutators, and consistently voting for the gimmicky non serious maps like longest yard. If you base your game on catering to the tiny amount of loud people who just want to play 1 vs 1 duel you will fail

>>714312232 (OP)
The exact same thing as RTS of the classic formula.
Scrubs just don't want to git gud. And without an influx of said scrubs the game will just naturally die. Even with all the veteran players they'll just start to move on eventually.

>>714312232 (OP)
Too bloated, yet tedious to play. Why do you need 10 guns? Why does a mechanic that's not even supposed to be "tech" become mandatory?
Although I agree that FPS games on computers should move like this, there's no reason for a game on a device that only understands 1 and 0 inputs to be slow

>>714335695
>>714335624
based

the movement is a bit stiff to me and I don't like that compared to quake as much, and I wish it had armor degredation, but it's great

really wish I had bros to try Bombingrun with, I never got to play that and it makes me sad.

pic related, someone that got mad


>>714335976
while 1v1 duels at the highest level are incredibly cool, I agree it sort of pidgeonholed or flanderized the whole genre when other genres got big

I'm also adamant about the fact that even newcomers can LOVE these games for stupid explosive fun if they can get matched with similarly skilled players easily and get to play modes they personally gel with

the hyper competitive duel players enjoy the game very different from FFA chaos enjoyers, to players who solely play CTF and objectivebased modes

>>714336321
>the movement is a bit stiff to me and I don't like that compared to quake as much, and I wish it had armor degredation, but it's great
Yeah actually, UT isn't THAT fast. You jump around and can dodge with double tap, but it's kinda grounded. You can take cover around things unlike Quake where it's better to just bunnyhop around. But I loved that from Unreal, because every tap could either dodge a proyectile or too soon and you're a sitting duck when landing. The movement gameplay was great. And also it was thought around several other gamemodes with vehicles and objectives and such, so it had a balance.

And yeah, Bombing Run was great. The thrill of dunking was the best.

>>714312232 (OP)
Devs wanting their game to be an endless service that milks people forever instead of something they buy and enjoy for a while.

>>714312232 (OP)
Arena Shooters have been dead longer then they have been alive

>>714313084
But Halo is an arena shooter

>>714336581
yeah they're different
it's not as fast but it has less momentum so spazzing around lastminute is a lot more effective and you can dodge the slower projectiles better

>And yeah, Bombing Run was great. The thrill of dunking was the best.
yeah that is exactly what i meant

it's like dude, what if you had CTF or counterstrike bomb diffusing
but... you RUN INTO THE ENEMY BASE
and then you throw it to explode
OR get MORE points
by fucking DUNKING THE BOMB IN FOR 3 TIMES THE POINTS

just based beyond belief and I really wish that mode had more staying power

>>714336905
BR could be a F2P concept frfr

>>714312232 (OP)
Consoles. The focus on trying to make these shooters playable on controllers killed the genre, it all became slow and unresponsive. The downfall was Unreal Tournament 3.

>>714335542
>haven't played a more repetitive shooter ever,
Quake

>>714335542
>dust2
Somebody doesn't play

>>714339668
Yes Quake3 is kinda meh
>>714339737
No because CS sucks balls

>>714340825
>i'm not bad it's the game that sucks

>>714340985
Niggur I don't give a fuck about CS

>>714313084
>Too high a skill ceiling for casuals to even compete
Bullshit. Arena shooters are some of the simplest games to pick up and play. The objective is simple, the mechanics are easy to learn,. Casuals cant compete in any game. If you take someone whose never played Halo before and put them in a match with someone whose played since Halo 2 they'll get their ass handed to them and probably wont get a single kill. That doesn't mean Halo is hard to play.

>>714336850
Halo is unique

>>714341026
Yet you talk about it.
Curious.

>>714312547
I dunno, have you played UT3 with mods? It kind of rocks

>>714341758
I like UT3. I actually play it by myself sometimes, it is an actually good game even vanilla, but just lacked content unlike UT2004

>>714312232 (OP)
Prioritizing trend-chasing to an unreasonable degree rather than making a fun, distinct game (relative to the offerings at that time) and maybe putting trend-chasey stuff in for-fun side-modes.

>>714312232 (OP)
Remember when Epic was going to release a free, cross platform version of Unreal Tournament 3? What happened to that?

>>714312232 (OP)
I think that they died because the games started focusing solely on the hardcore audience instead of the casuals. You can't survive while targeting that small of a player base

>>714312313
I'm tired of team arena master 2bqhw(You)senpai

>>714342747
they realized someone had to actually work in it instead of pushing new fortnite content

>>714319940
you will never be a female

>>714315645
there is a dx12/vulcan with multicore support in existence but epic cockblocked the guy that did it from releasing it

>>714343497
>

>>714312232 (OP)
I'm just talking out my ass here, but I think it's a combination of things. The biggest of them is focusing HARD on esports. So many of these games immediately turned to shit when they tried to appeal to the top .1% of players. You could see it in everything from gameplay mechanics to map design. Then you have the fact that the entire skill set to play them was replaced. I'll use Halo as my best example just because it's the one I played the most, but even in >>714335624 and >>714335695 you can see what I'm talking about. These games were slower, more methodical. It was more about positioning and map awareness than it was about reflexes. Halo felt like a dance or a game of chess, now you look at these games and it's spinning all over the fucking place to the point I don't even think the people playing know what is going on. A lot of modern shooters lack the ability to have varied playstyles. They want you to play the game in specific way because that's the only thing that's viable. There's 50 different weapons, but only 2 or 3 are actually worth using. You look at Halo's sandbox and barring a select few weapons, everything could be used in a wide range of situations. Other things that contributed to this is the erasure of social features. Pre/post game lobbies, custom servers, voip, etc. Now we live in HR world and nobody talks to anybody. Trash talk was half the fun. SBMM also absolutely fucking RUINED these kinds of games.

Whatever happened to UT4? Is all that work just gone now?

>>714345685
Yes. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. It wasn't even that good anyway.

>>714345321
nothing against that anon but he would get fucked by an average player, he doesn't even dodge jump

>>714313302
Total Biscuit isn't exactly wrong here. Reflex was actually very good and should have revived Arena under ideal circumstances. But I'm always playing niche games, I've never confined myself to only arena. It's a hard life to balance out when so many games want my attention at a time but then i have to dedicate myself to another community.

>>714312232 (OP)
Because starting in the mid-to-late 2000s, everyone wanted to be able to play online and host without port forwarding, and it took a while for anyone to make AFPS games where you can easily play online and host without port forwarding, and now it's too late for AFPS games to really squeeze themselves back onto the market when now you need way more going on for gimmicks and such to attract players.

>>714312232 (OP)
There is not one thing technologically impressive about any of these games. Its the exact same product, over and over, with the only change be art style.

>>714312232 (OP)
Combination of UT3 and Quake 4 at the same time.

You all should try out STRAFTAT for a pretty unique take on this genre.

>>714347540
He was pretty wrong, thoughsteverbeit
>TOXXIK
Failed more because of the deceptive and poorly executed F2P model that pissed a lot of people off
>Warsow
Failed more because they were waiting for the Steam version that got Greenlit, only for Warfork to come out long after interest died off
>UT4 Alpha
Failed more because the game still had a lot of missing features and shit that needed to be tweaked up until it was abandoned, and even back then, people weren't jazzed about the Epic Launcher
>Quake Live
Failed more because it was clunky and unintuitive to a lot of players with its browser version, and things like the loadout focus and eventual addition of a pricetag made things confusion as it shifted to a standalone version

The only ones that were just straightforward and viable options for a pure AFPS game that didn't have much actively going against them were Reflex and Xonotic, but then we're talking about another open source fork with Xonotic, and Reflex was an incredibly small indie game that was only able to survive its failed kickstarter because it hit right in that period where Greenlight and the beginnings of Early Access were both a thing. Asking for tens of thousands of players for games with literally no marketing and the smallest of grass roots communities is just ridiculous.

>>714348371
STRAFTAT is just first-person Duck Game, but it's not like that's a bad thing.

>>714312232 (OP)
The extremely fast-paced gameplay not based around ADS (aim down sights) basically meant players had to focus on building skill of their own gunplay and reflexes rather than just map awareness and camping.

In other words they were too hard for most folk.

>>714349238
T. Never seen how zoomers play COD.

>>714347540
Reflex was cool but it was the most DOA game I've ever played, I tried out diabolical when it came out and the same thing, no one played it more than once.
I think Warsow would have had the best chance at "making it" if the creator bothered to put it on steam when greenlite first started. The genre WANTED to die.

The only games i know of that do 'what if arena fps but singleplayer' is Ghostware Arena of the Dead and Doombringer. Ghostware is a disappointment and the shooting just doesn't feel satisfying enough and Doombringer looks like an abandoned early access scam. Trying to tie that into OP's thread since he asked for games on steam sale.

>>714313302
Total biscuit in the grave tonight

It was me, I killed them.
I'm sorry. ):

>>714336850
Movement speed is too low for it to count for me, not a lot of movement options either

t. boomer

>>714349942
Diabotical soured a ton of people due to both the rotating queue system that limited what modes you'd actually be able to play, and the fact that dressing up your ball-bot was such a big thing and instead they basically took all the stickers you were used to using in the beta and made you pay to get the pass to be able to use them again.

>>714312232 (OP)
Do you consider Halo to be an arena shooter?

>>714351620
Yeah

>>714312232 (OP)
They arent fun

It isn't just console gaming getting popular and high skill ceiling for the time (advanced fortnight play makes UT and Quake look easy). The death of dedicated servers did a lot of damage as well. imo UC2 was the last good arena shooter to drop and while some stuff got watered down it still has a lot of sauce and is the first hero shooters.

First person shooters in general are dying for some reason. Consumer tastes are always changing.

Counter Strike happened. Now, instead of mindlessly running around the arena, you can strategize and socialize with your team. The FPS genre evolved but AFPS chose to stay behind, and got left behind.

I play Quake Champions but duel only because anything else is braindead. In EU the queue times for duel are short but because of a small player base you'll often have big skill gaps. So you'll need a bit more resilience than the average zoomer.

>>714312232 (OP)
There hasn't been a good arena shooter since Quake 3, that's the actual reason.

>>714312232 (OP)
I reckon epic would kill it if they made a new unreal game that was a combination of ut2k4 and championship 2

>>714312232 (OP)
Fags migrating to CS and other squadslop.

Mobashit and royaleshit are kind of interesting in that they're both PvP games where you can spend a lot of time not actually interacting with enemy players which puts less "pressure" on a player and it's easy for people to blame their losses on bad teams or RNG. They're basically the polar opposite to high pressure 1v1 games where you've got nobody to blame but yourself and you need to be on game all game. Games like UT and Quake can be played extremely casually, but their fast and direct nature means even in team modes you're still have to be responsible for yourself.

>>714312715
>I could too. I think the problem is that a lot of newer gamers need some sort of skinner box gacha hook and older unreal tournament and quake didn't have that. I know people who literally won't touch certain games if you don't sort of "gain" something for playing it. So like points or currency to spend on something or move towards something like titles or skins or nameplates etc.
Literally every current multiplayer has that

Priced out by battle royales for skinslop

>>714312232 (OP)
The truth is the genre is niche and irrelevant and not even nostalgiafags that pretend it's good support the newer games coming out.
Quake Legends or whatever it is called was born dead.
>inb4 muh mtx
Not p2w. You arena shooters for the gameplay, don't you?

>>714312232 (OP)
I dont think arena shooters died out, they evolved and became heroshooters. Granted a lot them like Evolved, Lawbreakers and Battleborn did die, and for probably the same reason why arena shooters have gone extinct. But one of them became the biggest shooter game in world for a short time.

>>714362795
Battleborn died because Randy is a retard who tried to compete with Blizzard who stabbed him in the back and basically killed it with the release of Overwatch. You had legions of blizzard cocksuckers saying Battleborn sucks on the internet when it came out, it was the most cringe shit ever because Battleborn although a bit clunkier was still superior to overwatch in every way. Fuck blizzard shitgobblers

>>714312232 (OP)
Probably because companies started to try and make "the next big x" instead of doing what they want.

>>714312232 (OP)
>What exactly caused the death of arena shooters
game devs stopped making tdm/btb/ctf/bomb modes because they wanted to ride the waves of pubg/fortnite, tarkov and overwatch. battlefield has the entire genre locked down outside of anything beyond like 6v6. we'll never get shit like casual 10v10-20v20 server browser lobbies in sandboxy shooter games ever again.

>>714312232 (OP)
There are super experienced players that destroy lobbies. That's the reason. There's also no casual role for players with bad aim, so they are forced into being as good as these super pros. A death spiral in the player base soon occurs when newbies are blown out 0-30 and quit the game. In no time at all, games like Quake Champions go down to 200 players concurrent globally.

>>714312232 (OP)
probably the same thing that ruined every other kind of shooter (for me at least), the lack of servers. Eternal matchmaking hell fucking sucks.

>>714312232 (OP)
arena shooters can't be heavily monetized like Fortnite because there's no social aspect to them and it's only about getting kills which doesn't hold the attention of zoomers

it's like trying to sell pong for 70$ with denuvo to a millennial

>>714313302
>companies release half-baked, substandard arena shooters that are either carbon copies of Quake/UT2004 or regressions of games that came before, or a literal fucking alpha of a game
>ACKSHUALLY IT'S YOURES GUYS'S FAULT ARENA SHOOTERS ARE DEAD
God damn it what a faggot.