There is no reason why a game should have 200 different classes.

>>714440205 (OP)
True, especially when they all play the same, like in that game

sure there is; fun for me, makes casuals seethe and quit

Truth nuke: Rogue Trader has more build variety than Pathfinder

>add/take away a feature
>call it a new class

>>714440564
what builds? I just make my main guy a bolter guy that I don't even remember the name of, used 2 guys to give him a billion turns, and bitchslapped Unfair.
There are other classes?

>meanwhile is Big Gay 3
>the classes level up themselves
>no choices
>4 of them are 'auto attack: the class'
LOL

>>714440658
True.
There are maybe 6/7 proper classes in this game.

Why wouldn't they just make it an even 200

>Pathfinder niggas when a new wizard archetype is released (it has a +1 damage to disintegrate when targeting demons of slaughter during a leap year)

>wojaktards

>>714440205 (OP)
fuck you, I like reading

>>714440693
Yes, and each of them can have different build depending on your talents and your weapons, all of them have vastly different playstyles, unlike Pathfinder where every caster is the same and every martial is the same
Also trying to use the game's piss easy difficulty as an argument is funny when Pathfinder is the exact same, in RT you just get high momentum in turn 1 and decimate everything, in WotR you just prebuff (with a mod lol) and auto-attack everything to death, or use a single spell to clear the room

>>714440960
>all of them have vastly different playstyles
hahahahahah
AHAHAHAHAHAHA

I enjoy 2nd edition more than the original Pathfinder.

>>714441023
>PFsissy already coping
For fuck's sake, even pets are implemented better thanks to the latest DLC, it's crazy how much better the combat in RT is, although it's still far, far from being great, but they're improving, here's hoping Dark Heresy delivers

>>714440205 (OP)
There's few classes that feel different from each other, like Kineticists.

Btw, the gather mechanic is such a fun way to limit spellcasting, much better than any variation of vancian bullshit.

>>714440742
its not Larians fault that 5e is shit

Do you all ever consider this is maybe why there's multiple of these types of games?
Not everyone likes baldurs gate
Not everyone likes rogue trader
Not everyone likes pathfinder
If it makes all of you feel better, this entire genre of games is for the socially incapable
And you're all basically arguing which flavor of shit is superior
Maybe get along and be friends, because nobody else is going to want to
At least you've found someone who likes shit as much as you do, take advantage.

>>714440205 (OP)
Most of the reactivity towards your class and spells just doesn't exist in the game. That greatly diminishes the point of playing certain classes outside of very limited flavor text. It's fun building towards the legend mythic class and going for complete build autism.
Pathfinder WoTR just spent a lot of the time immediately after its release incredibly broken though especially the mounted and pet based classes and it still breaks from time to time, some values stop tracking, some classes don't mesh well or have conflicts causing certain feats not to work anymore.
They need to just pair back most of the classes and have more reactivity to the ones that do exist. It was cool going for something like Hellknight and getting some reactivity out of the world but those instances are few and far between.

>>714440205 (OP)
Functionally a Fighter and Barbarian are the same class, one rages for better to hit numbers and the other has inherent better hit numbers
They both use the same crit fishing weapon and you click on the enemy and idle until everything is dead.

Every class follows this format, some just do it better than others.
Functionally you have: DC kill guy, Buff guy, and martial click and idle guy.
This game says it has 199 classes but it really has 3 very boring classes.


Theoretically the Arcanist Archetype Magic Deceiver could have been cool, but the spells they gave you to combo either don't work together or amount to one option being correct and everything else being ignored.

>>714440205 (OP)
Build autism simulator: the game

>>714440743
I challenge you to name them then if there's so little

>>714440205 (OP)
It can be 9000 poopzillion classes for all I care, it ain't worth shit if the gameplay doesn't actually change, which is the case with pathfinder.

>>714445656
The "autoattack in melee" class.
The "autoattack from range" class.
The "cast support/healing spells" class.
The "cast DC spells" class.
The "cast ray spells" class.
That's it. The only people propping up these shit games as "zomg epin builds bro" are either the special type of autist who couldn't care less about actual gameplay, deriving enjoyment simply from adding a bunch of +1 to their rolls; or retards who see the character creation screen and piss themselves in awe thinking this is some gigahyper ultracomplex shit without realizing that 9/10 archetypes are just a bunch of passive bonuses swapped around.
It's as quantity over quality as it gets.

>>714446192
>The "autoattack in melee" class.
>The "autoattack from range" class.
>The "cast support/healing spells" class.
>The "cast DC spells" class.
>The "cast ray spells" class.
Okay, now let's see you come up with new classes that don't fall under the ones you've listed.

>>714440564
Not really because Cassia just kills every enemy in the first turn thanks to my officer MC giving her infinite turns

>>714446375
In what frame do you want me to come up with new classes? Owlcat's pissfinder? Probably not possible, as their framework is utter garbage.
If it can be any D&D or D&D-adjacent videogame then BG3 is a great example of how to do classes properly, everything's got distinct playstyle.

>>714446619
>If it can be any D&D or D&D-adjacent videogame then BG3 is a great example of how to do classes properly, everything's got distinct playstyle.
Go ahead and list them.

>>714446725
Too much work. I can see that you're trying to come up with a gotcha, but consider the fact that there's no autoattack in BG3. Dwell on that.

>>714446375
Rogue Trader does it decently enough, both Argenta and Yrliet are long range attackers and yet they play extremely differently, one is a sniper, the other is focused on using burst (machine guns) and area (flamethrowers) attacks

>>714446870
>can't prove point
>gives up

lmao not even that anon, just stopped by to call you a faggot

>>714446870
>consider the fact that there's no autoattack in BG3
Pathfinder has both no autoattack and autoattack modes. Now go ahead and list them, coward.

>>714446619
>everything's got distinct playstyle
Featuring such exciting choices such as:
>The "autoattack in melee" class.
>The "autoattack from range" class.
>The "cast support/healing spells" class.
>The "cast DC spells" class.
>The "cast ray spells" class.

I do actually think BG3 is mechanically better than WoTR but that's due to better environment design and the environment actually being interactable. The classes and mechanics underneath all of that are borderline identical, though - D&D 5e tightened the math and simplified a lot of bonuses to advantage/disadvantage but it and PF both stem from the same mechanical roots given PF was a spinoff of 3.5. Also 5e's classes splitting off into different schools with different themes is likely inspired by how successful Pathfinder's class archetypes.

I don't understand the OPs issue with subclasses,
like you have a base class, just stop clicking through the subs if you don't wanna read nigga

>>714447148
>Pathfinder has both no autoattack and autoattack modes
Doesn't change a thing. Pathfinder is built around rtwp, turn-based mode is an afterthought and it can be seen clear as day because the pit spells still don't function properly in it after all the patches.
>Now go ahead and list them
Alright, I'll give you one. Let's compare druid in both games.
In pathfinder, you either focus on wildshape OR on spells, no matter the subclass. That's simply how it is due to how wildshape works. But even if it were different, there'd still be no reason to ever mix and match those because none of the encounters require it, nor really do the gameplay systems. As a bonus, you're gimping yourself by picking druid if you wanna go wildshape route, because shifter archetype exists and it's just a straight up upgrade. That's another great example of why pathfinder classes suck.
In BG3, druid has a unique playstyle of being a spellcaster that can also wildshape in addition to that, or vice versa, thanks to the fact that base physical attributes are derived from wildshape form, unlike pathfinder where they're the same as in your "human" form. You can cast a concentration spell and shift into a bear which has a lot of constitution, allowing you to tank without losing concentration. Or you can shift into a bird and just fly away/take a highground. The environments and encounter design allows for that and much more.

>>714447359
No, it's from 2E kits and 4E subclasses and class features.

>>714441127
>dogs in Pathfinder can auto trip
>dogs in RT can protect companions, bite enemies and latch onto them, attacking them every time their master attacks said enemy, look for hidden objects without needing to pass skill checks, among other things

I wouldn't shit on it as badly as others but there are definitely dead classes that shouldn't count in any way. Why does warpriest exist when there is already a cleric? A cleric is literally a warpriest.

>>714440205 (OP)
The final redpill is realizing there's really only 6 builds in Pathfinder.

Melee Build - Will take Improved Critical, Combat Reflexes, Seize the Moment, and Shatter Defenses. Depending on your build, you'll then either take the Cleave Line, the Intimidate line, or the Two Weapon Fighting line

Tank Focused Martial - Will take dodge, crane style, crane wing etc. basically every +AC feat you can think of

DC Caster - Will take the Spell Focus, Initiative feats, and metamagic feats

Blaster Caster - Will take Point Blank, Precise Shot, and metamagic feats

Archer - Will take Point Blank, Precise Shot, and the rest of the archery feats

Mounted - Will take Power Attack and the Mounted Combat feats

Every "class" is one of those builds I just listed. All of the class abilities are just renamed, but they all fundamentally do the same thing (buff your stats and make your attacks more effective)

>>714448839
It's actually 5 - "mounted" doesn't change how your character plays other than adding more tedium in form of mount/dismount action.

>>714448215
Based RPG combat enjoyer. I love both these games and enjoy Pathfinder's build autism but in terms of actual class expression BG3 is miles ahead, it's annoying to see people pretend Pathfinder is better just because it has arguably has more number crunching

>>714448776
>Why does warpriest exist when there is already a cleric?
It's basically a Cleric that qualifies for all of the martial feats because you use your class level instead of your Base Attack Bonus for the qualification of feats. So you can grab the top tier martial feats much faster, and you can also straight up grab martial feats that a Cleric will never qualify for.
in spite of this, I agree with you, a War priest is fucking useless compared to a Cleric, especially because they can't even spellbook merge

I hope in the next Pathfinder game that Owlcat takes notes from Larian on how magic can be used outside of combat to traverse the landscape, solve puzzles, and get an edge on people you're in a conversation with via spells like detect thoughts and the mind control spellls

>>714440205 (OP)
It has that many because it's attempting to be an accurate and comprehensive adaptation of a system that accumulated that many through decades of expansions. To not have that many would make it a worse adaptation (and probably not even a better game).

>>714448839
You missed summoners for one thing

>>714449418
>I hope in the next Pathfinder game
oh no no no no

>>714449616
>You missed summoners for one thing
Summons are ass and their stats can't keep up with the enemies if you're playing on one of the higher difficulties

>>714449616
Summoner is a worse melee with extra steps.

>>714449418
They're doing that with Dark Heresy btw

>>714449774
Nope.

>>714449717
>>714449774
Summons exists exclusively to be meat shields

Especially when 199 of them are dogshit compared to Mutation Warrior

>>714450389
Why nope? Most summons are melee attackers, and they're worse than dedicated melee characters.

>+1 to AC while under the effect of life bubble on a mondays against demons of magic
Holy shit bros, new pathfinder archetype just dropped!

>>714440205 (OP)
I think I just beaten the maze but im not feeling the combat so far. It's fucking confusing with the positioning as the elf chick with the rapier keeps getting her ass kicked.

>>714440205 (OP)
There is if you want 180 of them to be unplayable garbage and 20 to be broken in different flavours.

I really wish Owlcat would make a Shield Bashing Fighter archetype because as it stands right now a shield basher is way too feat and stat starved considering you need the three two weapon fighting feats, double slice, shield bash, shield mastery, bashing finish, ontop of the normal martial feats like improved critical and shatter defenses. The fact that you also need like 19 dex + a high strength score is absurd, especially when the damage lags behind a normal martial with power attack.
There should really be a Fighter archetype that gives you Shield Bash for free at level 1, said archetype should also waive the dex requirements for Two Weapon Fighting. It should also give you Shield Mastery and Bashing Finish for free like how a Dragonheir Scion gets Dazzling Display and Wings for free

>>714450732
That just means you have a semblance of taste. Pathfinder gameplay is trash.
Also the further you are into the game, the more and more of your time will be spent applying buffs.

>>714450732
>just beaten the maze
What the fuck was Owlcat thinking? WotR's prologue is so fucking garbage compared to KM and RT's

>>714451017
>Also the further you are into the game
if you run a DC caster, once they come online you can skip buffing for 90% of fights

>200 classes
>they are all the same except for one or two skills/passives
>500 skills/spells
>480 of them are useless garbage
C H O I C E

>>714440409
Yup. Implementation matters.
>>714440564
Yup, it's also very poorly balanced overall, but your options are much more distinct.
>>714440742
A single-class barbarian has more variety in that game than anything you can manage in Owlcat's PF games.

>>714441081
2e is objectively better for everyone who isn't some kind of minmaxer or numbers autist. I hope 2e gets a good crpg before they ruin it with bloat like they did 1e.

>>714451017
>That webm
Unironically mandatory for the final dungeon in Kingmaker, considering every enemy there drains your levels, drains your stats, targets your touch ac, paralyzes you, stuns you, petrifies you on sight etc.

>>714443714
You have blaster guy too, don't forget him.

>>714451190
>one enemy resist a your instakill spell and comes into melee range
>level drain level drain level drain attribute drain attribute drain attribute drain
>spend the next two minutes casting restoration

>>714451208
Yeah, I really wish they'd just cut half of the spells in the game and give us some of the fun shit from the crpgs, like Time Stop, Project Image, Contingency, Simulacrum, Spell Sequencer etc.
There's no real reason to have the blatantly useless spells in the game like Meteor Storm (which is hilariously outpaced by any normal spell with metamagic), Flare Burst, Stunning Barrier, True Strike, Stone Call etc.

>>714451281
>I hope 2e gets a good crpg
May I tide you over with a decent little tactics game while you wait?

>>714451236
No they don't.

>>714448839
What a retarded post. That's not "classes", that's roles, you fucking inbred son of a bitch. Fucking tell me that Assassin and Warpriest plays the same despite both being melees. They are fucking not.

>>714451373
>>spend the next two minutes casting restoration
Why not just make it a menu option where you click restoration and it's healed instantly? Consuming spell slots, obviously, and only out of combat, in combat you have to do it the usual way
I don't get why developers are allergic to basic qol shit like this

>>714452286
Basic qol shit would be to not make every third enemy you encounter drain your stats.

>>714452246
>Fucking tell me that Assassin and Warpriest plays the same despite both being melees.
They quite literally do. Buff up and then melee autoattack until the enemies die.

>>714452359
It doesn't happen that regularly

>>714451373
>enemy resist a your instakill
I did a DC caster run last year, after it gets rolling on core / unfair the mobs that can resist / have DC too high are pretty much limited to DLC bosses and optional challenge fights like playful darkness and those can be thrown into the 10% for buffing / debuffing
even unfair deskari requires 0 buffs for a decent DC caster

>>714452246
>Fucking tell me that Assassin and Warpriest plays the same despite both being melees
Ok. Assasin and Warpriest play the same (true).

>>714452374
>>714452435
You never played them.

>>714440205 (OP)
is that true? I just bought the game and it’s my first crpg, do I need to use a guide for this game?

>>714452479
You send them into melee and watch autoattacks happen. Every single melee archetype in pathfinder is like that, there's no gameplay variety.

>>714452374
>>714452435
You forgot that sometimes you akshully get to hit smite evil or study target o algo before auto-attacking!

>>714440521
it just makes casuals follow the meta guide some youtuber made for youtube money

>>714452550
You probably won't understand jack shit unless you're ready to autistically read every single thing the game throws at you, and it throws a lot

>>714452667
idk why people play games like this to watch someone else make a meta for them
the fun comes from figuring out whats good on your own

>>714452603
>o algo
Kill yourself.

>>714446870
yeah cause it's turn based you retard. if it was rtwp there's 0 reason to not use cantrips as an autoattack on any caster that has better cantrips than weapons to autoattack with

>>714452407
It happens often enough to be annoying and tedious, especially if you're playing with extra enemy abilities difficulty option on.

>>714452932
damn okay, so I can’t play it casually like DA:O?

>>714453336
You can, the game literally has a story mode, but if you intend to learn how to play it properly and to increase the difficulty then that's when it gets autistic

>>714453336
>damn okay, so I can’t play it casually like DA:O?
Just play on Normal and if you're still getting filtered then play on casual. The game isn't hard but it's built around an ivy tower design philosophy where there are skills, feats, and spells that are straight up useless. Likewise, some classes are straight up better than others.
The higher difficulties also expect you to understand how to stack attack and ac bonuses as high as possible via buffs and feats. If you don't know what you're doing on Core for example, it's easy to run into situations where you'll have a 1/20 chance to hit the enemy (the Blackwater dungeon especially is infamous for this, especially before the enemies there were nerfed)

>>714440205 (OP)
Camellia should have gotten a multitute of terrible sexually explicit bad ends of the violent objetification and degradation of women kind as one of her punishments for being a cunt larger than the Worldwound. I'm not into waifufagging, but this bitch gives me such a hateful hateboner for getting away with her bullshit that I demand justice.

>>714453336
>>714452550
So is it your first crpg or did you play DAO?

>>714455021
I guess second, i played DA:O but that was….15 years ago?

>>714455357
And how much do you remember of it? I would recommend just playing it again, or failing that, just play BG3

>>714454961
There should have been an option to leave Camellia in the abyss to get raped by demons

>>714440205 (OP)
Yeah, especially since there are only, like 5 classes, and the rest are just pallete swaps

>>714446431
Sounds like you've played the game on story mode when it was released and then never again

Normalfags get overwhelmed when they have more than single digit options and angry when they cant just have their character be the best at everything but its ok kid friendly games like BG3 exist to satisfy your needs.

>>714456539
No one is overwhelmed, it's just shit

>>714455591
>no [demon] option to just throw Camellia at a random place in Alushinyrra netting a special bad end slide for her
>sell her to the Brothel
>sell her to the flesh blob in the flesh market
>throw her in a random alley and forget about her
>sell her to the arena
>just throw her in the ishiar to get qlippothd
>dress her in an arue cosplay and leave her in the fallen azata fag's doorstep
>sell her to vellexia
>force only her and lann to stay in an empty Nexus for 8 fucking months, then leave her there and recruit lann
>sell her to the shadow demons for cheap drugs
>loudly scream that she's the Hand of the Inheritor when meeting the Echo of Deskari

>>714456391
I think I played on core, but yes I played at release.

>>714456391
It was Daring, whichever that is. The game was trivially easy after the prologue. I might try it on hard some day.

>>714446619
>5E core classes and larian's signature "throw heavy objects around" shtick
>distinct playstyle
come on anon

>>714457794
They nerfed the shit out of Cassia, she's still strong but not as overpowered as she used to be

>>714441127
>playstyles
>combat
>gameplay
They're all XCOM clones. They all play exactly the same. The gameplay for 2 vastly differently built characters is exactly the same because you click them, you click an enemy, and then you watch. It's all the same.

>>714458446
That's good, I'm looking forward to my replay after all the DLC is out

>>714457251
>>sell her to the Brothel
Bitch was going there on her own, she would enjoy it

>>714446192
>actual gameplay
Optimizing the build is the gameplay, more fun than the auto-attack part. Literally nothing wrong with every class "boiling down to" some basic fundamental mechanic. If minmaxing is not gameplay, and attack/skill use is boring, then there is no RPG worth playing at all.

>>714458480
>yeah bro you like, press buttons, so they all play the same
Least disingenuous PFbro

>>714451281
>ruin it with bloat
isn't that the entire tabletop model of releasing extra rulebooks? are you saying that 1e has too much boring rulebooks, or that psionics/tome of war/called shots shouldn't exist at all?

>>714458559
She was enjoying because she was the one calling the shots every time she paid. Camellia definitely is the type that can dish out but can't take it so the second she's in the receiving end she would snap.
Plus Nocticula was tidying up the place for the knight commander so she toned down the degeneracy.
PLUS Cam was using MY fucking money to do that shit.
P L U S shouldn't her being a spirit hunter cause the demons to see her with different eyes? I mean, demons eat souls and all that and Camellia talks to those guys hourly, she'd be like a prized truffle pig on a skirt.

Canon KC is;
>Aasimar
>Female
>Bard
>Chaotic Good
>Azata
>Romance Arue
>Ascension ending
>Impregnated with twins

>>714460126
>Impregnated with twins
only if she got surprise impregnated through tribadism.

>>714460657
arue is impregnating the mc here

>>714460949
even better because arue can probably pull that off with a smug smile that the kc won't understand until it comes knockin'

>>714461143
how big do you think her balor breaker is?

>>714440205 (OP)
Mogs your game’s build variety

autistically building characters from 200 classes is like the main reason to play these games

>>714440658
It's called a subclass you mongoloid.

>>714461412
>Infiltration specialist
It won't matter if it's as small as an ant or as large as an oil tanker, when you find out it will be too late. Field reports says its both for some reason.

>>714452953
this is the norm now actually. zooms tend to be lazy and would rather copy paste a build rather than experiment.

>>714453336
the party stuff is interesting but then you run into the army management and the game grinds to a halt. I hate that part.

Fighter and Mage are the only real classes, everything else is mental illness

>>714457120
If irs just shit why even talk about it? Why not just move on and play the game you find not shit? Unless the game was simply too much for you which made you take it personally and now you have to go on the internet to run damage control for your shattered normalfag ego.

>>714446619
>BG3 is a great example
AHAHAHAHHAHAH

>>714463651
>fighter rogue cleric wizard are the only real classes, everything else is mental illness
fixed

>>714440205 (OP)
this one doesnt have 200 classes though?
it only got 199 classes.

>>714468046
they're counting subclasses as separate classes, there aren't even 199 classes.