Thread 714467985

How come 25 years later BG2 still can't be matched?

>>714467985 (OP)
checkmate

>>714467985 (OP)
Because all of the good writers and moved on to make movie games in other genres, the only people left making CRPGs are gameplay autists. Larian is the exception, they're the only ones making cinematic movie game CRPGs.

>>714467985 (OP)
We just don't have the tech (anymore)
Bg3 could've been In that league, if they would've skipped the propaganda and if they wl didn't gut the story last minute.
For an rpg that can rival bg2, you would need a. Good story, matching story telling, decent game systems and memorable characters. E33 is truly a mid game, but demand is high, so it's a huge success.

>>714467985 (OP)
Has anyone tried bg2 in nwn2(ee)?

>>714467985 (OP)
terrible writers

CLEAN AS AN ELVEN ARSE

>>714470782
Why would anyone do that? NWN graphics aged worse than bg2

>>714467985 (OP)
it was modeled after classic D&D tabletop adventures, and was created by a bunch of nerds that didn't have to present every decision to some corporate committee

>BG1
>job to wolves
>have to kite around kobolds to not die
>struggle with single wizards casting mirror image and horror

>ToB
>coven of vampires collectively piss themselves when you barge in
>2 dragons in a row then 2 more at once (one is a demigod) is the midgame fight
>break into a Lich's lair
>"WHO DARES ENT- whoa holy shit hold on now and let's talk about this"
Admittedly this is all ToB is good for but any other games for this feel?

>>714468210
>BG1/2
>good writing

>>714470785
>>714471178
Irenicus is one of the top villains ever

Baldur's Gate 2? More like Baldur's Gate WHO

>>714468154
>>714471280
>zoomer humour

>>714467985 (OP)
Nobody can write anymore, i couldnt even finish BF3 it was so cringe, also i loved the combat in bg2, it actually made me feel like a demigod in the world of faerun.

>>714471453
Bg3, sorry posting on a phone.

I really liked BG3 (evil playthrough so I could kill >>714471280 instantly), but plot-wise it doesn't hold a candle to BGTrilogy. Not even in the same league.

>>714471636
even if that's true, how does it matter?

>>714470916
I like the concept of playing game A in engine B.

>>714471912
go do your homework Jimmy

>>714467985 (OP)
Railroading theme park world and romances. Not as good as BG1.

>>714467985 (OP)
The days of 20 extremely creative, passionate and intelligent White guys, sweating away in a garage to create what they love, are just long gone.

>>714467985 (OP)
>Still can't be matched
AHEM.

>>714471280
Go suck your gay knife-eared vampire's rotten dick elsewhere, faggot.
>>714471636
>>714471256
>>714471178
It has good writing, in some places more than in pothers maybe, but generally, it's high quality. too bad ToB was kinda rushed but at least it ends the story on a great note.
>>714471114
This is what's goof with the original trilogy, you go from a fledgling adventurer that just left the nest to a hardened adventurer, then to a seasoned veteran and then finally to a demi-god with the power and might to match your nature. It's a simple but efficient rise to power story, but it works well.

>>714472383
Isn't this game about myrkul?

>>714471280
The BG3 plot is a side quest in BG2.

>>714472730
Yeah.
It's technically Myrkul vs the best boy Kelemvor. It's fun.

>>714474006
Bg3 at home? Or is bg3 mask of the betrayer at home? I might buy nwn2ee for the first time and play the expansions and some mods, if they work. Iwd 1,2 and bg1, 2 would be fun in 3.5e.

>>714467985 (OP)
Overrated reddit RPG game. Second worst IE game ever made.

>>714474645
The story of MotB blows BG3 out of the water. If anything, MotB is "we have Planescape: Torment at home". They even have the same in charge of the story. And it's interesting that MotB was made from the scaps of what the ORIGINAL BG3 was supposed to be about, back when it was still under Black Isle.

>>714472383
>>714475087
Also an overrated reddit basedrpg, Storm of Zehir was the only bioslop NWN-related thing of any value, even if it was half-baked.

>>714471114
I'd say WotR, but it scales up way too fast with the mythic powers. Nothing else does hobo to God like BG1 to ToB. Play it with the Ascension mod, it gives you a power that lets you ignore Time Stop like the other Bhaalspawn, and Amelyssan resurrects Bodhi and Irenicus to fight you right at the end of the game, you have a whole shitflinging match with Irenicus where you just flex your absolute might at that point.

>>714475087
>ORIGINAL BG3
The hound game? What's the initial story of the bg3 back then?

>>714475461
The best part about Ascension is Sarevok and Irenicus shittalking each other.
You have two supervillains going "my dick is bigger than yours" in the middle of the apocalyptic final battle.

>>714475629
Absolute cinema, wish more games did this.

>>714475545
>May Farrow and her gang of raiders have spent weeks tracking down the black hound, the essence of May's guilt for unleashing a great evil. The player character is resting by the firelight in an old barn to hide from the storm outside when a black hound arrives and after being shot twice by an arrow, it cries one last time before it dies on the player lap. May accuses the player character (PC) of being in league with the dog (meaning she thinks the player character is another essence of her guilt) and almost kills the player before the Riders of Archendale save the PC. They question the PC and take them to the magistrate, who question the PC further and inform the PC not to leave the areas of North Sembia, Archendale, Battledale and Deepingdale. Whenever the player then approaches somebody with great guilt, the black hound appears to him and eventually the player's actions make the player the essence of guilt throughout the four areas mentioned above. As the player unravels more secrets, he learns that he can't kill guilt, thus he cannot kill the black hound or what he has become (the player can physically die, but people won't forget about what the player did). Eventually, he learns the tale of a widowed farmer's wife, taking great guilt in her husband's death as for some reason she believes it is her fault, she tries to resurrect him. She succeeds but finds him to be an abomination and cannot stop him, despite him being very weak at the time. Through the course of the game, the farmer is growing stronger and stronger off the guilt absorbed by the black hound through the player. The player learns of this wife being May Farrow, who believes killing the hound would be a way to stop the farmer, the hound however latched its soul onto the player and uses him as a tunnel to channel guilt to the farmer and as a guide to the world.
I guess this whole "guilt" thing later evolved into the hunger of Akachi in MotB.

>>714475545
Looking up cancelled games. Scale bound was literally secret of evermore open world + a dragon instead of a dog.

>>714475775
Awesome thanks

Modern fantasy is just ass, people shill WotR but it has completely different vibe than 90's fantasy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFZcc567ADg

>>714467985 (OP)
BRUTALLY mogged by BG3

>>714476315
I still think Cyric should've been the main villain of BG3 and the story should have been about his keikaku to free himself our of his prison.
With Bane being your silent advisor against Cyric, because fuck Cyric.

>>714467985 (OP)
BG2 is THE definitive fantasy adventure game. It's not the best written, it's not the tightest in terms of gameplay but it perfectly captures that classic adventuring vibe,
There's no big ticking clock over your head, you just go around as a party of adventurers doing various quests.
Also, BG1-2 has the best character progression ever, you go from fighting random thugs to making demigods shit themselves in fear and it feels earned due to the sheer scale of the combined adventure.

>>714476315
Game with art direction like picrel would be awesome

>>714476564
They cut like half the story. There was a whole story line with the two god sisters selune and the other one. The two choose don't have much of a story either and even the gith plot feels rushed. Idk, they completely fucked up the management part. How can you finish anything before the story is done? I'm convinced that the emperor was the bbeg and they wrote the self into a corner. He was pictured in the mural at the beginning of the game. He was likely some mythological legendary mindflayer that only spawns like once in a millenia, intend to lead mindflayer away from their overlord brains.

>>714471114
>numbers go up : 0

>>714477327
It's almost as if Larian wanted the story about mindflayers, WotC wanted a story about the Dead Three and Hasbro wanted a story that promotes their newest FR module, that being the Descent to Avernus. And we ended up with this clusterfuck.

>>714470782
i tried bg1 in it many years ago, didn't bother finishing it

i did finish iwd in nwn2 though, was fun role playing as a full party of drow through that

nwn2 had a few alright modules but that wasn't one of them

>>714467985 (OP)
https://www.pcgamer.com/your-favourite-baldurs-gate-2-companions-were-a-bunch-of-cardboard-cut-outs-until-the-games-director-played-final-fantasy-7-and-felt-the-heat-of-competition/

>>714478829
>if only they'd gone one step further and strapped a minigun to Jaheira's arm
I wish

>>714467985 (OP)
wdym? bg2 didn't even live up to bg1

>>714467985 (OP)
>How come 25 years later BG2 still can't be matched?
I finally got around to playing Baldur's Gate II around 2 years ago and I was unimpressed with it. The story was nothing special and there wasn't a lot of player choice. Frankly, I didn't even enjoy it that much. It was better than 1, which I loathed and had to force myself to finish, but 2 still wasn't fun.
The only things I really like about 2 were how powerful late game wizards were and the Viconia romance.
Aside from that? I honestly enjoyed Dragon Age Origins, Pathfinder Kingmaker, Pathfinder Wraith of the Righteous, and Baldur's Gate III more. The story and the characters were way more likeable in those games

>>714482419
>The story and the characters were way more likeable in those games
See>>714479756
>>714479398
All in all it's the better game, but bg1 has this early adventure magic that makes it special. Bg1 can be played in the bg2 engine, which I will try out.

>>714482419
Pathfinder characters were fucking terrible, especially Wotr

>>714483983
>Pathfinder characters were fucking terrible
I really like Ekun, Regil, Nyrissa, the Hand of the Inheritor, Nok-Nok, and Ember.

>>714483939
You can't have BG2 without the setup BG1 provides. Both games are a single complete experience.

Posting the only worthwhile Baldurs Gay games ITT

>>714484073
Finally, some good fucking bait. I love you, Anon.

>>714467985 (OP)
Best video game ever made.

>>714484058
Yet they are two separate games and you can perfectly compare these two games with each other.

>>714472245
That sounds really gay bro

>>714484043
very reddit

>>714484353
It's only technically real time, all actions occur over 6 second rounds, you can even set the game to pause on each round.

>>714484416
That sounds even worse, FAGGOT.

I think BG1 is way better than 2, the party members in 2 shifted to the modern exposition dumping story focused style, where in 1 they felt more like real people in the world.
Made it feel more like an adventure along with the open world.

>>714484353
There is nothing real-time about BG1/2 all actions are executed in order and there can't be two actions happening at the same time.

>>714484513
If it's not button mash hack n' slash, it's shit. Simple as.

>>714484496
I do like that BG1 has so many options for party members, but I don't think BG2 goes too far in terms of you having conversations with them. BG2 characters still exist as their own characters in the world rather than being stuffed up your ass forever after you meet them like later games.

>>714484513
>all actions are executed in order and there can't be two actions happening at the same time
Per character, all characters act simultaneously, so there's a lot more to track and less time to track it compared to straight turn based games. It also means it's harder to take advantage of the initiative order to deny action to enemies.

>>714484354
>very reddit
Okay? It's not my fault the only characters I enjoyed in BG2 were Viconia, Keldorn, and to a lesser extent Edwin. I'm not gonna lie and say I hate the pathfinder cast and love the Baldur's Gate cast for street cred among anons. I simply like what I like, and I'm not ashamed to say so

>>714484891
I don't think it goes too far either and a lot of them are really charming and have nice stories, but I feel like it was definitely the start of a decline in terms of how CRPG party members are handled.
Having so many party members with their own agendas in 1, how they refuse to join in certain circumstances or straight up start fights and kill each other was soulful. Having chucklefuck get killed in a dank cave wasn't the end of the world either. It's a lot better to have a game where you feel like you can keep playing when something bad happens rather than immediately going for the reload key.

>>714486034
The start of the decline was after the first video game, mate. BG2 isn't responsible for your victimhood.

>>714486034
BG1 is definitely more inspired by classic D&D/dungeon crawling with the idea that you will have characters die along the way who'll need to be replaced by new characters whereas BG2 more assumes character continuity, which I think makes sense given the power level escalation. I don't think either is "wrong". BG2 still has character conflicts too.

>>714484513
>order all my units to attack
>they all attack at once
>not real time
Lockdowns really did fuck with you kids, eh.

>>714486630
every action(spell casting,weapon speed etc) has animation speed and can be interrupted, initiative adds a hidden roll to it.

>>714484513
>There is nothing real-time about BG1/2 all actions are executed in order and there can't be two actions happening at the same time.
What in the absolute retardation am I reading.

>wtf why won't Minsc pat his head and rub his belly at the same time

>>714484073
I don't have any friends anymore so I can't enjoy these ever again.

>>714489109
They have a singleplayer mode you fucking diva

>>714489271
Yeah but it's boring. They're meant to be played co-op.

>>714489394
No they aren't.

>>714472820
I find it fascinating that the game-spanning Cult of the Absolute is so much less intriguing and intimidating than the fucking sidequest Cult of the Unseeing Eye.
Also, were there multiple people who gouged their eyes out for the Unseeing Eye, or was it just that one retard you first run into?

>>714472820
>>714489561
What a massive reach, you didn't actually play either game and you are just baiting now.

>>714489271
They are actually very unfun to play in singleplayer. Because the enemies are damage sponges if you go solo. And god help you if you pick an elven sorceress, you'll be so fucked.

>>714489561
>Also, were there multiple people who gouged their eyes out for the Unseeing Eye, or was it just that one retard you first run into?
There were multiple IIRC. The quest is actually metal as fuck, I just wish it didn't end on such an anticlimax. I wanted to have a conversation with the head beholder or something.

So what difficult level do you play? Core rules?
Are you supposed to bring custom characters to help?

>>714490614
Always Core Rules.
WDYM custom characters? The multiplayer ones? Nah, it's the companions or bust.

>>714486458
I suppose being a ttrpg enjoyer is what made me enjoy BG1 so much. Having a DM who reads his shitty fantasy novella to the players out loud instead of leading the game is agonizing torture.

Actual Baldur's gate boomers love BG3, whilst zoomers cling onto games older than themselves to look cool in their community.

>>714490709
EE lets you make custom characters in singleplayer without having to fiddle around with multiplayer. It's usually worth having at least one in the party apart from the player character since companions don't make use of class kits.

>>714491323
You're trying too hard, this one isn't even believable.

>>714489109
Bruh, you don't need friends to enjoy these games. Half the fun is micromanaging your band of dysfunctional weirdos like you're some kind of fantasy HR manager. You're already replacing half the party every few hours when they start killing each other over a magic rock or a slight insult anyway. Just lean into the schizo energy and enjoy the ride solo.

>>714491875
...He's talking about Dark Alliance games.

Honestly, what the fuck is this stat block? 8 or 10 is average human strength and here's Nalia packing the strength of a fucking gorilla.

>>714467985 (OP)
There have been a nearly uncountable number of mediocre games since then.

>>714468210
> Writing
> Video games

That is like saying you read Playboy for the articles. I believe you but you are doing it wrong.

>>714493079
>87
Yeah, her stats are ridiculous. The only reason Edwin is a better wizard than her is because of the stupid cheater medallion he has.

>>714493341
It's definitely high fantasy levels, the distribution is just weird for her class combo and background. The woman is absolutely ripped and retarded.

>>714493549
> and retarded
She is, but she's lovely anyway.It's her romance mod that made her edearing for me. Because it doesn't even try to pretend Nalia knows what the fuck she's doing most of the time and you have to keep playing her tardwrangler all the time.

>>714493972
Care to share? I'd like to take a crack at my retarded magic gorilla.

>>714494073
https://www.pocketplane.net/dearnise-romance/
And for the ToB part:
https://skitias-stories.com/mods-view.php?name=Nalia%20At%20Last
That'll be $29,95.

>>714467985 (OP)
Interplay was based, that's why. Tim (Fat nigger) Cain said it was filled with anti faggot white MEN.

>>714494417
I can pay you in NFTs, as soon as they're worth something

>>714490502
sorc sucked yeah since gear upgrades had no effect on your magic iirc
barb/rogue/monk had no issues keeping up

>>714467985 (OP)
>modern game devs can't write a script longer than a tiktok video
>job is just a corporate job, unlike the previous 5 nerds in a garage passion project. No pressure to do your job right, it just has to "look right" to retarded HR roasties
>they don't have real life experiences, only ironic deconstructions from the garbage media they consume.
>they have never know friends that aren't vapid, disloyal, with idiotic opinions, mostly illiterate, and terrible people overall.
>they are also oversocialized by extreme exposure to such garbage people, so having their own ideas to explore without the backing of the garbage hivemind terrifies them
>pushing the Message™ takes priority over everything else

tl;dr: garbage people make garbage games. Modern game devs are garbage people

>>714484353
>it is mechanically exactly the same as turn based, but faster
Only reason to hate it is that you are too stupid to place your fireballs (protip: place them where the enemy is going to be, not where they are, retard), or because more than 1 thing going on simultaneously overwhelms your single brain cell (protip: use the pause key to asses the situation if something happens, retard. That is what the key is for)

>>714471178
The Master Wraith fight was kino, don't you knock it.

Why didn't Elminster just kill the mindflayers?

>>714493079
Dex 18, elf like dexterity, few elves are better.

>>714484073
>console poop
ew stinky

>>714493316
Yakuza 7 has a decent story, Rdr2 has good story telling.
>Playboy articles
Really depends on what you want from it? Is it a scientific paper? No. Can it be fun? I once had a few 1960 in my hands and read them. Cool stuff ngl

>>714499456
Elf racial bonus to dexterity comes in at +1, so peak Elven dexterity sits at 19 while peak dexterity for all other races, barring Dwarves, comes in at 18.

>>714499635
wow it's almost like few elves are better

>>714499635
Indeed, she's comparable to peak elves. Just a tiny bit worse. Ridiculous. Unfortunately no game takes stat seriously in terms of mapping onto the game life. Halsin being huge and bearing Str 8 is just ridiculous.

>>714499703
Ye, i don't get what exactly is his >>714499635 problem.
>>714467985 (OP)
Whta are modern crpg lacking, say the cheap bg1 clone black geyser or the other clone iron conspiracy.

>>714499703
Elves will generally sit at or near to 18 as a baseline, while it's much rarer for any other race to attain that level of dexterity naturally. Remember the average for most humans across all stats is 10, no bonuses and no maluses from core stat rolls. That said, Nalia is comparable to Viconia, a Drow, at 18 dexterity and faster than Jaheira at 17 who is half elven.

>>714474006
>best boy Kelemvor
Commit suicide. Now. Myrkul is based. You're just a faggot.

>>714500071
Sorry no, correction, Viconia has a base of 19, the highest possible before modifiers.

>>714500071
that's like saying humans will sit at 17 as a baseline

you are retarded

>>714500172
>that's like saying humans will sit at 17 as a baseline
That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying Elves sit at a higher baseline for dexterity, not humans.

>>714499625
>Rdr2 has good story telling
You just got tricked by long, drawn out riding cutscenes and le pretense of depth because muh TB boohoo.

>>714500071
Not really.
The +1 increases the minimum and maximum.
If we go by 2e rules (the system BG2 is based on) and we use random rolls, even with a 4d6 stat block with drop the lowest you're not necessarily going to get 18 as an elf.
Even with a 4d6 reroll 1s and drop lowest you're not assured: you need a 5 6 6 to get to 18 as an elf or a 6 6 6 to get 19.
Nalia not only got maximum dexterity possible, she also got 5 6 6 on intelligence and 5 6 5 on Constitution (or potentially a 4 6 6).
Her stat block is made for God tier characters.

>>714500505
If you played d&d rolling legit most chars would be on the ballpark of 12-16, maybe a single 17 or 18. Many chars in the game have "unrealistic" stats.

>>714468210
nobody cares about the story in baldurs gate

>>714500762
I mean even with point buy her total score is 87.
No matter how you look at it her stats are absolutely insane by any metric.

>>714500505
All the elven party members are statted for high dexterity by default, while not all human party members are. What I'm trying to say is that Nalia is a clear outlier for dexterity in terms of the human norm, but it's not an impossible stat for a human to have. It's way up there though, 18 in any stat is basically considered peak ability in that stat before you start straying into demi-god/god territory. When statting NPCs, it's considered more normal for elves to be closer to that level of ability compared to other races.

I'm about to learn that you retards think I'm noldorfag or something

>>714500240
yeah, they do, by one point

>>714500303
Never said a word ablut depth. The storytelling is good, because the tension is always exactly there where it should be. Riding and talking is a good way to conceal loading times.

>>714500303
>>714501205
RDR2 is a dumb story told very well, which is preferable to a good story told badly

>>714471256
>Irenicus is one of the top villains ever
He's really not, he's a paper tiger of a villain that tricks you into thinking he's better than he is. He has a very good voice actor and a line where he scoffs at monologuing his plan so you'll think he's clever, but then you just find the various journals he left lying around where he outlines all his plans. Then there is his actual backstory and plans, which is "My girlfriend broke up with me after I tried to kill the Godtree and was exiled and cursed with mortally, so now I'm incel-mad about it and want revenge"

>>714501386
Every char can be turned into strawman clown if done in bad faith. Post some allegedly good char and I will illustrate.

>>714501386
>but then you just find the various journals he left lying around where he outlines all his plans
You're not meant to find those obviously, since he intends you to be killed immediately. It's his retarded sister's fault you found the journals at all, but then again, Saemon went through them before you did, and there was nothing stopping Irenicus from blowing you up in the tube then and there.

He's not just trying to kill the godtree, that's just a side effect of using its energies to become a god.

>>714501339
Indeed. That's why I never mentioned the story, it is, as you say, dumb.

>>714501386
>he's a paper tiger of a villain that tricks you into thinking he's better than he is.
Anon the fact that he can do this in the first place and actually be convincing about it makes him good.
And you're seriously downplaying both the severity of what Irenicus actually did and how unbelievably cruel (if totally justified) his punishment was.