This is the worst character assassination in video games. Put Ishizaki in charge of From Software from now on.

>>714498096 (OP)
What is it with George R.R. Martin and incest?

Promised Bussybuster Radahn

Such an asspull to bring back the most overrated dogshit boss and make him even less interesting

>>714498271
is bussy really powerful enough to bring the dead back to life?

>>714498096 (OP)
Nobody's character was assassinated
>Radahn
Nothing about his character changed, he remained the brave hero and good natured person that the NPCs told you about. He became a victim post death and his body was puppeted by Miquella
>Miquella
The games makes it very clear that there was something sinister and threatening about him, we are shown multiple bosses who seemed unhealthy in love with him to the point where that was the focal point of their entire existence and we are constantly told Miquella was the most fearsome demigod of all. Nothing about the eclipse castle or Haligtree screams good person
If anyone was assassinated, it was Milenia, who devoted her entire life to a brother that couldn't give less of a shit about her and used her as a pawn

>>714498096 (OP)
Remember when anons were saying that this was "obviously" fake when this leaked. lmao

>>714498541
>Nothing about his character changed,
That's the worst part you fucking retard
The big climax of the story was yet another unga bunga sword fighter like we haven't seen that 100 times by now

>>714498096 (OP)
>character
He’s a souls boss, they’re fights not characters.

I’m more annoyed by Rellana stepping over Rennala and Ranni’s moons tbqh

>>714498096 (OP)
What upsets you? That's he's bi in a setting where gods fuck even animals and objects?

>>714498626
Well then that's a different problem than the one OP had

>>714498743
Rennala was never a good character either. She’s basically a feminist’s wet dream. A woman barges into a men’s magic science club and cancels the mad science and declares the moon so much better and “also I’m way smarter than all of you”, and no male has ever seen the moon / ever reached 70 intelligence.

Elden Ring is an insufferable feminist game.

>>714498541
>Well ackshully [a wall of text based on particular interpretation of 1.5 item descriptions that nobody is going to read]
I'm sorry but the only thing a non-autistic player sees upon encountering this boss is
>Hey remember this dude you fought in mid game? Well he's back and also he's gay now and in a gay marriage to a local crossdresser. This made him giga strong actually, prepare for a challenging fight.

>>714498560
Honestly this was such an obscenely retarded and absurd move, I can't even blame them. It's basically a shitpost from devs. I refuse to believe that whoever came up with it wasn't drunk or high.

>>714498871
Anon she gets completely broken by a man leaving her. Balance in all things.

>>714498096 (OP)
Which character got assassinated specifically?

>>714498096 (OP)
They put a NPC that follows you through the whole NPC spelling it out to you that Radhan is just a corpse being puppeted around

My main issue with the fight was that Radahn didn’t speak a single word. While it may make sense, given he was likely charmed by Miquella, it still would have been a good opportunity to hear his voice.

Consort could have been saved if they actually committed to making the first phase a disgusting half-man half-omen monstrosity
It would've cemented that Miquella had done something terrible to pursue his goals, and the second phase becoming prime radahn would have demonstrated the power of his illusion magic
Instead you get a weird half-ass measure where the only representation that you're fighting an undead Mohg is....some horns growing out of his bracers?

it should have been Godwyn
anyone that says otherwise is a shitter

>>714498871
Rennala isn’t the best wizard and she certainly doesn’t have the highest INT - which would be Azur and Lusat.

>>714498898
Do we talk about what is actually presented or what the impression a random smoothbrained retard is like?

>>714498096 (OP)
>radahn holds the stars in place to seal TLB's fate
>miquella who is supposedly allied with him at this point doesn't want this and sends malenia to kill him
>radahn is killed by the player and is required to unlock the DLC, thereby undoes everything radahn has achieved since the shattering
>later revived and used as a cumpuppet inside another body that crudely resembles his original one
>refuses to speak at all (or cant) and seems to follow miquella's every single command unquestioningly
>has bright glowing yellow eyes now
but you see he actually wanted this all along btw

>>714498096 (OP)
Miquella was a retard and the dlc is half baked.
>HMMMMMMMM, the guy who killed Radahn, who kills Malenia, who manages to unbind Destined Death, who kills my father the King Consort, that guy? I'm going to try and kill him
Smartest fucking would be god ever. Even Marika knows the Tarnished were worth gambling on.

>>714498096 (OP)
Is that zandibart?

>>714499528
Whats crazy is that people believe that the tranny, known to beguile people spoke truthfully when he said that Radahn made a promise to be his consort, even though Radahn fought his sister to the death and then stopped his machinations even as a zombie for thousands of years.

>>714499730
Miquella isn't used to people not tripping over themselves to suck his dick.
And at this point, the player has been told that Miquella has shed everything good about himself and become a monster, and has likely been tasked with avenging Mohg by Ansbach. The tarnished has likely already resolved to kill him, there is no option for diplomacy here, and I doubt Miquella would be very good at bargaining from an equal position

>>714500189
I would have been at least 50% more amenable to peace if his human dildo didn't try to kill me outright. Miquella brought everything on himself and I'm sure that's the point but I didn't like the dlc.

>>714499362
>oh I want more Godwyn muh Godwyn, muh slimy fish man
>Did you do Fia's questline?
>No
Every time

>>714499758
Holy reddit. Hows the Awoved/Veilguard subreddit doing? Did you get your gold star badge or whatever?

>>714500321
That's a big issue with Elden Ring's story in general, shit tons of NPCs try to kill you on sight for zero fucking reason
>Hey guys can I seek refuge in the Haligtree too-AGGGGHHH NOT THE ARROWS AAAAAHHH
>Oh hello Man-Serpents I seem to have discovered the interior of Volcano Manor after joining the Recusants and-NOOOOO NOT THE WHIP I'M SORRRRRYYYY
>To think there was a Dragon Communion temple still present in Farum Azula, hello good sirs may I learn more about the Dragonlo-AIIIIIEEEEE
And then Malina pleads with you to spare the world from Frenzied Flame like 98% of it isn't a desiccated ruin that wants you dead

Miquella is the most misunderstood character in this game. Feel free to ask me anything about him and I'll answer it to the best of my abilities.

>>714500698
is he gay?

>>714499357
This was something lost in translation, but the point wasn't to make Radahn a body-horror monstrosity (of which there are 5 already in the DLC). Mohg's horny corpse became a spiritual vessel, so that Radahn's (remember, a horned lion) newfound horns tie him to the context of the DLC's lore of the Hornsent.

>>714500698
The Mohg kidnapping was not part of his plan, right? It was improvisation once he realized what was happening? The story is too stupid otherwise.

>>714499362
He can't use Godwyn the entire story explains why, there's no soul to use.

>>714498096 (OP)
>character assassination
Fromsoft characters don't have real character, faggot

>>714498871
radahn is literally a magic god, he held the stars in place with nothing but his big muscle brain

>>714500321
That's really every demigod. I had zero reason to kill Milenia until she violated the NAP. Original Radahn is the only fight that isn't purely self defense.

>>714500974
There is strong evidence to suggest he and St Trina were an item, or that it was at least one-sided on Trina's part

>St. Trina's love for Kind Miquella is boundless.
>She is, after all, his other half. Or perhaps her feelings go beyond even that.
>Even if she was left behind, I doubt her heart would waver.

With this in mind think back to the part where Miquella abandons "his love". Why is his 'love' represented by St Trina? Of course in English its impossible to ignore the connotations "consort" has, and the obvious parallels to Godfrey/Marika. But the reading I have on his relationship to Radahn is that he was his childhood hero who had both the strength and kindness that he felt he was lacking.

>>714498871
>it's this faggot again

>>714499362
I subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the Scadutree Avatar could have been a repurposed Godwyn battle
>extremely similar shape
>golden-black aura extremely similar to deathblight
>thorns
>prominent face as an obvious weak spot

>>714498096 (OP)
I'm an unrelenting Fromfag but I agree this was a bad finale. "The same guy but remixed" is not a good DLC finale compared to DS3 Gael. A Miquella battle was obvious at some point but the actual final boss should have been something mostly out of nowhere like Gael.

>>714500638
As a Tarnished most of the Lands Between sees you as a graceless eyenigger who's there to kill the local demigod. As a player your prime objective is to become Elden Lord no matter how many corpses you step over.

>>714498898
What a retarded take. A brown take if I've ever seen one.

>>714500698
What do you think is the significance of the cocooned corpse at Mohg's place and the mechanics about entering/exiting the shadow realm?

What do you think about the timeframe of the DLC? I know generally how many years the lore and story span is controversial but I would like to think it's been a couple centuries since the Shattering. However Miquella only seems to have made his move in the shadow realm shortly before we arrive, as he breaks his great rune while we are there. Was he chilling for a long time either with Mohg or with Messmer?

>>714501012
Yes I believe so as well. Once again, we get a better interesting insight from Leda:

>But in his day, he was the feared commander of the Pureblood Knights,
who cleaved open Miquella the Kind with his blood blade.
>He claims he hasn't the spirit to take up his sword again,
but I doubt it'll be very long...

This gives us a rough timeline for when Mohg and Ansbach were charmed - Ansbach was younger and there were still Pureblood knights for him to command.

But what also makes things interesting, and this was a very ignored part of the base game, is this ghost in the Consecrated Snowfield. This is someone from the Haligtree, looking for Miquella.

I must stress, this ghost is a random nobody who:
>Knows Mohg by name
>Knows he's an omen
>Knows he took Miquella
>Knows he fled to the Snowfield where we can take a portal to the Mohg Dynasty

All of this paints a picture that Miquella charmed Mohg sometime in the past before he was cocooned. When and where could this have happened? Well, while it is sadly cut content, there was a quest about St Trina that took place in the very same sewers Mohg grew up in. Food for thought.

>>714501304
>I subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the Scadutree Avatar could have been a repurposed Godwyn battle
Let me just prove this wrong - its internal filename is ShadowOfErdtree. Internal filenames are one of the earliest things done in development, apparently, and changing them will break dependencies in the code, so its never worth it. Nevermind it does a pose that's literally mimicking the Scadutree.

>>714499528
>>radahn is killed by the player and is required to unlock the DLC
is he? can't you just skip him?

>>714501646
Timeline stuff is the biggest headache of the game.

>What do you think is the significance of the cocooned corpse at Mohg's place and the mechanics about entering/exiting the shadow realm?

As Ansbach says, Miquella used Mohg to enter the Shadow Lands. I think we can infer that it is specifically Mohg's blood that has some connection to the realm. This would explain how and why we need to touch the withered arm - Miquella's corpse is filled with Mohg's blood, and gathered blood from Bloody Fingers as the Lords of Blood Exultation implies.

>What do you think about the timeframe of the DLC? I know generally how many years the lore and story span is controversial but I would like to think it's been a couple centuries since the Shattering. However Miquella only seems to have made his move in the shadow realm shortly before we arrive, as he breaks his great rune while we are there. Was he chilling for a long time either with Mohg or with Messmer?

Yeah its difficult to parse. Especially when you factor in Miquella likely found Torrent, a horned horse, in the Scadulands (Or it was handed to him by Radagon/Marika? But this wouldn't refute that point, since Marika is from the Scadulands)

One odd thing to keep in mind is Radahn's revival appears to have taken place just before Miquella entered the gate. "Lord brother, at last you are returned".

>>714502107
No, Radahn and Mohg are required to enter the DLC.

OH NO NO NO RADAHN BROS

>>714498560
Imagine the shitstorm if Laurence had leaked lol. It is so much more blatant and lazy AND is a worse retcon than anything with PCR (The skull on the altar doesn't match anymore! He was the Bloodletting Beast!)

>>714498541
>Nothing about the eclipse castle or Haligtree screams good person
Worse when you look at the symbology and draw parallels to the hirnsent abd then wonder the plan he had for all the undesirables he was taking in.

>>714502878
I don't believe Miquella is evil but people had to ignore the bewitching branch and "He is the most fearsome Empyrean" in order to paint him as a perfect saint, and got blindsided by the DLC.

>>714500698
can you explain him and his motivations? what was the information we had on him in base game vs the revelations from the dlc?

>>714501175
He didn’t actually halt the stars, though.

>>714502501
>smalldahn
Gigadahn would have singlecockedly raped leyndell if he wasn't invaded and cheesed by Malenia. Morgott got really lucky.

>>714503615
Here's a rough summary:

>Born cursed alongside Malenia
>Was a golden order fundamentalist close to his father Radagon, they shared spells as a show of their bond
>Can charm people into loving him
>Hates outer gods
>However when the golden order couldn't help Malenia, he sought other means
>Created the Haligtree which became a haven for outcasts
>Was the only Demigod to care about Godwyn's fucked up condition and was trying to find a solution with Castle Sol
>Malenia grew up and became his protector
>Shattering happens at some point
>Malenia goes off to fight Radahn. We are never told why, but it had nothing to do with Miquella or Malenia wanting great runes, as Malenia spared him
>Mohg abducted him from his cocoon
>Despite this, Malenia remained convinced he would return and did not seek him out

Now for what the DLC adds

>Miquella was planning to become a God
>He followed in the footsteps of his mother, but chose to purify himself of his connection to her
>His ultimate motivation is better explained in Japanese - the "original sin" is breaking causality, the chain of events that led to all the suffering in the Lands Between which stated from his mother
>He had an entourage of Needle Knights, but the only surviving one is Leda
>St Trina is confirmed to be his other half, thus reflecting the dual nature all Empyreans share
>Mohg was confirmed to be charmed at some point
>Radahn was his childhood idol, and a vow was made between them that if Miquella became a God, Radahn would be his Lord

>>714498218
He has two sister

>>714504246
>as Malenia spared him
*And by him I mean Godrick. To expand on this point, we know they fought, Godrick lost, he begged her to let him go and she did.

>>714498096 (OP)
it's basically just marika and godfrey again

>>714504246
but if Radahn promised, why did Malenia go to kill him? You said she spared him but didn't they draw? What's so wrong with the Age of compassion? what does erasing causality mean? His mother was a racist psycho but he didn't do anything, what does stripping himself of everything acomplish? What are the lands of shadow and why did Miquella need Mohg to access them? Why even wait for Radah to die and use Mohg's corpse?

can I get a quick rundown on mohg?

>>714504246
>purify connection to his mom
Why? What did his mom do?

>>714504246
From DLCdahn armor description, he had Malenia fight Radahn because of their promise.
>When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear— "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort."

>>714504541
>but if Radahn promised, why did Malenia go to kill him?

I believe the answer comes from PCR's armor set - it is specifically the "Younger" Radahn set. So, we need to ask - Why did Miquella bring back a younger, weaker Radahn? Yes, weaker. Put the stupid "Prime Radahn" away meme for a second and lets anaylze this. He doesn't have his bow, he uses far less gravity attacks, his swords tell us he didn't become the Starscourge. This is not "Prime Radahn".

My read on this is Miquella brought back a younger Radahn as he remembered him, that had willingly agreed to the vow, but after he became the Starcourge, his mind would have changed. Jerren doesn't mention the vow, to be clear, only that he and Radahn swore to kill each other honorably. Freyja even tells us Jerren would hate to see Radan like this!

I'll answer the rest in another post.

>>714504784
Indeed, but for that part of the post I was using only base game information on Miquella.

Don't be mad you memed the forgive me meme into reality. Mememagic responsibly

Why didn't Miquella just marry Malenia?

>>714504541
>but if Radahn promised, why did Malenia go to kill him?
Seems like the shattering changed how Radahn felt.
>You said she spared him but didn't they draw?
I think that anon meant spar, doesn't seem like the bloom was planned.
>What's so wrong with the Age of compassion? what does erasing causality mean?
A tyrant of good intentions, removing free will.
>His mother was a racist psycho but he didn't do anything, what does stripping himself of everything acomplish?
Implication is it was needed to use tge divine gate.
>What are the lands of shadow and why did Miquella need Mohg to access them?
>Why even wait for Radah to die and use Mohg's corpse?
A place Marika sealed away, most likely accessible due to the hornsent connection with the onen curse.

>>714504617
I like to imagine that Mohg's crew was much less deranged prior to Miquella entering the picture. Just look at the contrast between Ansbach and Varre. I think at first Mohg and his nobles and pureblood knights were only concerned with cultivating their powers, and only after the cocoon was made did they become near-mindless killers collecting blood.

>>714504541
>What's so wrong with the Age of compassion?
Miquella had gone too far in divesting himself that by becoming a God he would have doomed himself to repeating the same mistakes his mother did. "A caged divinity is beyond saving". Trina begged us to kill him out of mercy towards him.

My other answer is less satisfying but is likely just the cold hard truth - From/Miyazaki didn't want to sell a new ending for $40. Whether they would have foreseen people complaining about it, or didn't want to bother with the logistics of implenting a new ending to the base game, its just not something they've ever done barring SOTFS, which was a re-release that was seen as a scummy practice at the time.

>>714504682
> what does erasing causality mean? His mother was a racist psycho but he didn't do anything, what does stripping himself of everything accomplish?
First, erasing causality means that Miquella would have founded a new age free of the influence of the past one, which his circlet as the basis of it. We don't know if the Elden Ring would be involved at all.

As to why he was so hellbent on divesting pieces of himself and severing his ties to his mother, Ymir says this:

>Ever-young Miquella saw things for what they were.
>He knew that his bloodline was tainted. His roots mired in madness.
>A tragedy if ever there was one.
>That he would feel compelled to renounce everything.
>When the blame...lay squarely with the mother.

Miquella is actually very self-loathing when you get to down to it.

>>714498096 (OP)
I still hate the way the story unfolded and the ending.
I still don't like the overall lore of the DLC.
There's something wrong with all of it, making it non-canon.

>>714505975
Nah Hornsent/Marika/Messmer story was kino, and so was the dragon plot. Trina by herself was good too.

>>714506257
Midra is the best part of the DLC imo. Between him and Revanant's quest in Nightreign, Fromsoft needs to do a real horror game.

>>714506257
Really it's just the ending. Everything else is kino, really the misstep is not making Messmer the focus since he's way more interesting as a character.

>>714506447
With that and bloodborne they clearly have the chops for it. Was hoping something like that for Dusk Duskbloods when that trailer started but alas.

>>714506524
People would have just complained the DLC was about a nobody zanzibart and demanded more Miquella/Godwyn stuff. Two years of waiting created expectations that a Fromsoft DLC was never going to meet.

>>714504541
>What's so wrong with the Age of Compassion
1. It wasn't real and it would just be him mind controlling people
2. He is already the fuck up guy. Every plan he does inevitably goes awry or he fucks off leaving shit in its wake
3. He did the one thing he should never have done (remove his heart/humanity) so at best he'd have just become Marika 2.0

>>714506642
We'll need to see more but Duskbloods is looking to have great cosmic horror stuff in it already.

I'll never forgive Miquella for doing poor Trina so dirty

>>714506761
Yeah but tge multi-player aspect will hinder the horror stuff. Still shows there mind in there.

>>714506989
Yup it sadly won't be the survival horror we want, but I still feel the game has a lot of potential. I can't defend the Switch 2 exclusivity though, what a shame.

>>714506824
I thought they there the same thing

>>714507153
they are two halves of the same whole, like Marika and Radagon

>>714506257
Marikas bits of lore sucked, I hate the shaman village, the jars and all of this shit, Messmer would be interesting if we knew more about him and how he came to be, Marika lore would be interesting if they explained/expended the fucking ascention and the process on how she became a god at the gate.
It is hugely desapointing, even the alien stuff with Metyr sucks because it feels so fucking thin and weightless.
There's a problem with how they brought up those things and how they presented them.
Trina, it was nice to see her, but ultimately underwhelming.
Bayle and Igon was kino stuff.
They fucked up Miquella in such a way that I though would not be possible, I would have never imagined that they would fuck up this bad, I thought that this DLC would have made Elden Ring the best game ever in the genre, but this fucking DLC managed to stain the base game for me, this is a fucking achievement.

>>714498871
People are throwing shade at you, but you're into something here. If you analyze the game carefully, all the most powerful figures are women or literal crossdressers.
>Marika
>Rabbi
>Melania
>Miquella
>Rennala
Don't know if I'm forgetting somebody. I don't have a problem with traps but it's kind of weird. There are no traditional male heroic archetypes in Elden Ring and it has something to do with their pretension of being dark and edgy.

Lorekeeper anon do you know anything about Messmer? Why was he left behind? Is he Melina's brother? Why the giant demon blood serpent?
And about Miquella, why make his plan so convoluted? How was he the only one to know about the ShadowLands and the god machine in there? Why couldn't anyone in the shadowlands use it for themselves?
Sorry if I'm asking too much questions but I actually quite enjoy the story of these games even if it's more convoluted and ofuscated than fucking fnaf

>>714508189
Please kill yourself

I should have been Miquella's consort. Me!!!

>>714504682
nigga she hated what the Hornsent did to her people but went full nuke on them and basically holocausted them with her edgy son. That and shenaningans in the Lands Between

>>714508189
>There are no traditional male heroic archetypes in Elden Ring
???

This thread was just made by the textwall loreschizo to have an excuse to post his made up shit and claim it as fact

>>714508221
Messmer is so great, I can never take anyone who hates the DLC seriously just because he's in it. There's a lot to cover with him so I'll keep it simple:

>Why was he left behind?
I believe Marika's reasons were both personal and political. We know she did love him and tended to him, but it was also apparent she feared his true nature and tried her best to snuff it out. Once it became clear there was no "fixing" him, and owing to how unpopular he was in Leyndell (We're told he "fled" it, apparently), she left him behind after he made himself the figurehead of the crusade she wanted against the Hornsent, so she could kill two birds with one stone.

This is where I feel the political aspect comes in - not only did Messmer commit genocide on Marika's behalf, he was also responsible for planting the sealing tree that hid away the Tower. I feel this must have been on Marika's orders in order to hide away her means of ascension, another way for her to maintain her foothold of power.

>Is he Melina's brother? Why the giant demon blood serpent?
Yup, and if you look closely their faces do share a bit in common. Both are associated with flames too, especially if you buy into the possible GEQ/Melina connection, but that is another story. As for the abyssal serpent, it seems to be tied to either Eiglay, Rykard's serpent god, or even the Fell God which the Hornsent feared and Marika defeated. A recurring trend is that many of Marika's children are cursed, and Messmer was dealt the worst of it.

I'll address the Miquella stuff in the next post.

>>714508579
I didn't make the thread but I was very happy to infodump, yes. I'd love for you to tell me which parts were made up, since I did my best to keep everything as close to in-game sources as possible. If any wrong headcanon did seep in, that's my bad.

I just want more people to understand the lore of the DLC independent of the outrage and disappointment much of the fandom felt when it wasn't going to turn out how they wanted it.

>>714498969
Why do Carian women love faith chads so much?

i wanted more elden beast lore in the dlc

>>714508221
>And about Miquella, why make his plan so convoluted?
Convoluted plans were always his MO - from creating needles to ward away outer gods, to a weird Eclipse ritual to try and undo Godwyn's horrific soulless death, and even implanting himself in the Haligtree.

>How was he the only one to know about the ShadowLands and the god machine in there?
We can't really know how he found it out. Did his mother tell him? Did he learn about it while as St Trina, who entered his mothers dreams? We'll never get an answer on it. All we do know is he shared this information to Leda at some point.

>Why couldn't anyone in the shadowlands use it for themselves?
As established in my Messmer post, when the crusade on Belurat began Messmer planted the sealing tree to hide away Enir-Ilim in Shadow, and with it the Gates of Divinity.

>>714508836
>on par with Radahn in terms of being a respected leader to his men
>castle has an infirmary where they're trying to help JAR'd people
>castle has a giant repository of preserved hornsent cultural material that he didn't want to fully wipe out
>castle is even populated by hornsent phantoms who joined him (???)

He's so cool.

Reminder that they most likely replaced Godwyn with Radahn because they wanted to have a fanservice final boss after all the gay ass Radahn memes. Honestly i am surprised they had the fucking restraint to not shove some on the nose LET ME SOLO HER reference or something.

>>714501021
Just make it miquella reviving godwyn only to realize there's no soul and evil eldritch ungabunga outer god possessed his corpse to rape twink bussy and now you are fighting gaping miquella of rectal cavity loss or some shit

probably more kino than whatever radahn avengers assemble ending was

>>714508386
I just started elden ring a few days ago, and it's a coop mod with some friends, most of the lore is getting missed.
If the game is anything like DS1, I would probably have beaten it without even knowing what t he fuck is going on anyways. That game was beyond vague, unless you read every item description, apparently.

>>714508836
so apparently Marika used him as a scapegoat of some sort when people found out he was genociding an entire race. "Direct thy maledictions, thine ire, and thy grief towards me alone." Which just makes Marika an even BIGGER fucking whore of a mother. What about Glome Eyed Queen? Man I don't know, maybe it's the bigger scope but I feel this game leaves us with more unanswered questions than any other souls game which had just enough mistery. Almost everything here is unexplained

>>714509358
Why do people assume things were replaced, the entire plot points to Radahn. And Godwyn gets his own stuff in the DLC. They'd have to have shifted things before development even started.

>>714498096 (OP)
Know whats funny? Now that the creator of Berserk passed away, Miyafraudi will have to come up with his own ideas instead of ripping off-- er, I mean, being inspired by berserk for his games.
Does not bode well. Everytime he tries to make something original without ripping off berserk it flops.

>>714509358
They didn't. PCR's internal filename is RadahnOfMiquella (I've said this earlier but this is one of the earliest things they seem to do, its why the Putrescent Knight is GloamEyedKnight and Mohg is GreaterDemon), Freya and Gauis exist purely to lead up to Radahn's involvement, there is no cut content related to Godwyn at all (Godwyn has the least cut content of any demigod, actually). And he has an ending in the base game dedicated to him.
These are all cold hard facts. How disappointed you feel is one thing, but don't mix it up with the actual data we have.
God, is there no one who appreciates Godwyn as the fucked up silent horror he is? Must I be alone.

>>714509685
>Does not bode well
Looks pretty kino to me.

>>714509658
>They'd have to have shifted things before development even started.
Headcanon

>>714509837
>Battle Royale slop
Its fucking over

>>714509837
This is a passion project he has talked about wanting to make for years, too.

>>714509813
>God, is there no one who appreciates Godwyn as the fucked up silent horror he is? Must I be alone.
Especially with how that was expanded in the DLC with his corpse infesting the shadow realm and the death knights.

>>714508503
This, strong and important guys exist but due tot he circumstances of "God being a Woman" all of their fervor and fire is used towards women's ends or ideals.
Barring Mogh pre bussy mind control

>>714509837
After Fortnite Ring, look forward to PUBloodborneG

>>714509972

>>714509907
you don't know a single thing about game development. it would have taken countless manhours and thousands of dollars just to make radahn walk forward a few steps.

>>714509314
The phantoms aren't actually hornsent I believe, they don't have horns

>>714510107
Its Escape from Bloodkov acshually

>>714510107
Fortnightreign

>>714510464
Many do they are just hard to see, shorter horned so just random peasants.

>>714498096 (OP)
>self-insert as radahn because malenia made you seethe
>get offended when he actually has relevancy to the story
Just accept your femdom fetish already.

>>714498541
Radahn wasn't puppetted. He's there under his own free will.

So was Miquella Torrent's former master? I remember concept art of them but I don't know if that's canon or cut content

>>714498871
>woman that was so mindbroken by her husband divorcing her she literally becomes an invalid
>feminist wetdream
Do you actually play any of these games?

What was her problem?

>>714510902
Ultimately they left it up to interpretation, but this is what I agree with, since Ansbach addresses Radahn directly but does not state he's charmed. I do think his agency is still called into question however, since this is a Younger Radahn who doesn't seem to have his memories or powers as the Starscourge.

>>714511089
Frenzy follower who jewed Midra into it. She or her collaborators tried it before with whoever the frenzy torch spine belonged to.

>>714510937
Its not something the DLC chose not to elaborate on, ultimately. I think the takeaway is that Torrent must be from the Land of Shadow, given he is a horned animal, but how close Miquella was to him is uncertain. There's room for "Torrent's former master" to be him, or Radagon/Marika, or even Melina.

So why did Miquella send his sister to kill Radahn only for her to fail and poison an entire region and then he has to wait thousands of years for some random Tarnished to kill Radahn for him instead of just charming Radahn into killing himself in the first place and saving himself all that trouble?
>Radahn's too strong to be charmed
Would make sense but I can't find anything in the text supporting it. His remembrance spell references "one who wouldn't be embraced," but that's the player in the event they defeat him, and even the player can be charmed if you get grabbed

>>714507745
You are gay

I kill Messmer and Miquella for she.

>>714510902
>>714511091

One thing I must agree with is that having Radahn be a stone faced stone hearted mute poker face ass who doesn't talk was a complete waste.

Think of how many characters have a total of 3 lines in Elden Ring but they're so memorable that people love them inmediately because of that, Margit, Godfrey, Godrick, Rykard, Messmer... Imagine having all of them be mute and say 0 lines, it's just be a waste no? Was there really no way to do justice to Radahn? I'm sure Miyazaki could find a way to pull of a "gigachad" type character in an appropriate manner.

It's so boriung to have Radahn come back to life and nothing new about him is revealed, he's just the guy that likes using the big sword and kills you, though he doesn't even seem to enjoy himself in the bossfight, so we can't even see that.

Maybe the attention was to have him be an obvious Miquella drone but all the other NPCs still hold their personalities when Miquella charms them, they just get nudged to serve Miquella but other than that they speak and act mostly the same.

>>714512738
>So why did Miquella send his sister to kill Radahn only for her to fail and poison an entire region
I'd say Malenia's scarlet nuke was not part of the plan whatsoever. It goes against everything Miquella wanted for her, and Millicent's quest-line addresses that Malenia had to sacrifice her dignity to do so:

"There is something I must return to Malenia.
The will that was once her own.
The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot.
The pride she abandoned, to meet Radahn's measure. "

Radahn was going to die eventually. Miquella visited the aftermath of the war himself, and might have assumed Radahn would succumb to the rot or eventually be offed by the festival.

>charming Radahn into killing himself in the first place and saving himself all that trouble?
Because this isn't how his charm works. It's not puppeteering someone to do his will, it pacifies them. And, even as a literal God, he needs to touch someone to charm them - Radahn would have destroyed him. Personally, I also feel Miquella wanted Radahn willingly as they had vowed.

>>714513258
They planned for Radahn to have dialogue, but it was literally nothing. Just naming his parents and saying he loves to fight. Miyazaki was clearly resistant to ever having Radahn speak, since I feel Radahn's point is his nature as a larger as life hero.

>>714498096 (OP)
Should have been Godwyn and that's an objective fact
>B-B-B-B-B-UT THE LORE SAYS-
Should have been Godwyn and that's an objective fact

>>714513401
Godfrey is the larger than life hero revered by both the hornsent and golden chuddies and when he opens his mouth it only makes him even better. Radhan is a nobody.

>>714509813
Why is he a fish anyway?

>>714506665
Hyping up Godwyn is complete reddit tier and having him be a final boss would be worse and more fanfic adjacent than Radahn, HOWEVER I don't blame people for having so much curiosity about Godwyn and his huge merman morphed body... The game's lore trailers and the intro show him as the catalyst of the shattering through his assasination but we don't get ever learn more about that, mfer just died and now his body is weird, at least it'd be good to have more lore about the forces of "death", back in the early days of SotE people thought the scadutree was like a deathroot infested version of the Erdtree and I don't blame them, it'd be nice to find out more about that, or have people talk about him, or anything.

>>714513410
No matter how many times its drilled into your heads that Godwyn was a finished story in the base game with an ending, it'll never get through your thick skulls. Fundamentally you wanted an entirely different game than what we got. It would be far better if you just accepted this and maybe just play Bloodborne again.

>>714513596
Primal crucible energies are devolving him.

>>714498626
>This is the worst!!! His character changed
>Actually, it didn't change
>This is the worst!!!! They didn't change his character!!!!!!!!!!!!
very compelling, retard-sama. filtered by dancing lion, i take it?

>>714513001
What the fuck is that?

>>714513547
Ironically its the opposite, Godfrey's purpose is to show he's not the grand hero he's mythologized as - underneath his noble exterior is a savage warrior with a lust for blood.

>>714513258
Yeah, it really sucks.
You don't need that much material for people to love a character who has a good intro.
But Radahn gives you nothing. Stoicism doesn't work when you only have 5 seconds of personality exposure.

>>714513636
Don't care. It should have been Godwyn

>>714513732
>underneath his noble exterior is a savage warrior with a lust for blood.
Lorlet thing to say. These "savage warriors" he comes from are noble and enlightened beings. This is shown in the DLC with them being the only non-horned humans the hornsent respected and didn't genocide.

>>714507745
I am not as negative as you on the DLC but I do agree with the idea that the concepts were good and they just failed at the execution.

Bayle and Igon works so well because the idea is great and the execution is flawless, Marika and hornsent lore is a cool idea but the execution is mid af, and Miquella is the same, so hyped up only to appear in one cutscene and then dies, I guess more screentime wouldn't neccesarily fix it but damn Marika's dead body in the base game still managed to have more mystique to me.

>>714498218
I'm not so sure GRRM was even behind that, ***treign is about 2 VERY close siblings.

>>714513891
What Youtuber are you parroting this from

>BRoOOOOOOoooO it's good if you watch 6 hours of lore vids first (but pretend you just figured everything out yourself)
trash LMFAO. when a final boss steps to my reaction should be "f*ck thats epic...alrigth lets gets swaggy bitch" and if it doesn't then its shit

>>714513926
>>714513998
ayo fr it was mid as bruh on god

>>714513945
>***treign
Wylder... please stop...

>>714514076
bet cuh

>>714513998
naaaaaahhhhhhhhh thats CRAZY skull emoji

>>714498871
>Elden Ring is an insufferable feminist game.
did you miss the part where she gets buck broken by a man, loses her mind, destroys the academy and is only saved by ranni when you (male) come to kill her?
or the entire cut questline about how the "merchants" are actually evil and want to give the world to a chaos demon god and say things like "what did i ever do?!" then laugh as they die, implying they know exactly who they are and what they're doing
>ooo but they were perrrrsucuteddd!
name a single faction in this universe that hasn't been

>>714513998
trvth nvke niqqaaaaaaaa :flame::flame::flame:

>>714504541
Radahn's promise could have easily required his defeat in battle.
He was a man that loved combat.

>>714513774
Even stoic people say shit, Godfrey in the base game came off to me as a resilient and commanding character (though I don't really like the Hoarax Loux part that much, I get the concept but I didn't like the tard screaming).

Radahn can still be cool and say something

>>714513401
I still think that there was a better way to execute it though. Hell maybe you can have Radahn be mute but his cutscenes showing some personality, show some kind of sauce bro please, even Hercules in greek mythology wasn't an actual emotionless robot, even having Radhan show a determined face as if he recognizes us from the festival would be something nice.

>>714513976
Hoarah Loux is one of highlanders. Pretty obvious after the DLC. He even uses bear animations. He's a crucible warrior.

>>714513998
>this is the type of person who posts on 4chan now
Grim.

>>714504682
Marika is genuinely a pretty awful woman.
She's genocided at least 2 races and banishes children with a certain type of birth defect to live in shit just because they remind her of a group she hates.

>>714506761
This shit looks like it's from yoko taro game, completely unfit for fromsoft.

>>714513774
>>714514353
In the end I see it that Radahn serves as an extension of Miquella's role as a Marika parallel. In my view, the biggest failing is how he references and calls back to a trailer that isn't in the game and has to be seen on Youtube. The pieces leading up to him were there but did not come together properly for it to land as effectively.

With that being said I personally like him more after the DLC. But to be clear, I just thought he was a stupid ugly ogre in the base game.

>>714514661
Heaven forbid they do something new

>>714506761
ayo dis shit like if u told a ai to mash da mf moon from zelda n dat gay niqqa emil from nier together mayne hahahha!

>>714514765
Copying certified hacks is never a good sign. Better stick to stealing from Berserk.

>>714501021
the Rune of Death is NATURAL DEATH
his soul was NOT destroyed, he was cut from the rebirth cycle of the Erdtree and went to the place used to go before
the DLC was supposed to be a death dreamscape where St Tryna was your guide

>>714504541
I agree with much of what you say but I do have to reply to a couple things:

1.Miquella needs to divest himself of everything, even love, because he wants to rule impartially and show equal favour to everyone, despite what people may have you believe, Miquella is truly selfless and truly has love inside him, but to love someone more than other person is something that can cause suffering and conflict, as such, if he can't feel love, he can't favour any one person over another, and see things emotionlessly and objectively.

2. The age of compassion would bring love and peace and happiness to the lands between, but the price is that everyone will constantly be forcibly injected with heroin, that's it, is a world where everyone is happy not because of fulfilment in their lives but because of feel good drugs a truly good one? Maybe you see it thgat way, the world will have order and be happy but only because Miquella will have succeeded into having everyone charmed into compliance and aquiescence

Elden Ring is a game about struggle for ambition so I see how Miyazaki may have chose to just have the set ending be killing Miquella, though there's rumours that initially we were gonna have an ending in which we can comply and serve him.

>>714513732
>>714513891
I'm pretty sure the lion thing that getting an eternal piggyback ride on Godfrey is specifically there to keep Godfrey's savage warrior bloodlust in check, at least until the tarnished challenges Godfrey enough that he decides to go all out. Godfrey was always a savage warrior who was just larping as a leader-type after he agreed to serve as Elden Lord for Marika.

>>714514943
fr fr fr

>>714515004
proof bitch? anser quick or your done

>>714502501
Morgott is the best character in the game.

>>714515006
>though there's rumours that initially we were gonna have an ending in which we can comply and serve him.
This is true only of the base game, but its from a very early draft of it - before voicing was even done, apparently. It also appears to have been part of the cut Malenia questline, and would have involved Miquella dying.

>>714515038
>who was just larping as a leader-type
He created a entire civilization in the badlands in his exile.

i hate the dlc only because thematically the final boss sucks ass, messmer should've been the penultimate boss with either godwyn or the gloam eyed queen or some other aspect of marika herself as the secret final boss hidden behind a questline
you can leave miquella in but just have him play a minor role, he wasn't that interesting as a character
all the other lore surrounding everything else was great, there are some bad enemy designs (fire golems) but overall its a good experience with good bosses and vertical exploration
such a shame

>>714514668
Why did Fromsoftware use their CGI cutscenes for trailers in Elden Ring and Armored Core instead of for story intros?

The AC6 CG trailer is so good and it's sucha waste if you play the game without seeing it, and the power point in Elden Ring is fine I guess but not as cool as the "story trailer".

https://youtu.be/K_03kFqWfqs

https://youtu.be/Vs2piSWfofQ

>>714515006
I think your thinking of him having a cut Great Rune questline in the base game.
Originally he was going to give you the Rune for The Age of Abundance in which all life regardless of origin or intent would of flourished equally.
But it was cut and the content was reworked into the DLC version of things.

>>714504014
Radhan already invaded Lyndell with a entire army and lost. He was in Caelid because Morgott pushed him into that shithole. You have markers of Mallenia's army marching route for Caelid and guess what she was avoiding Lyndell too.

>>714515274
Radahn was thematically the perfect choice.

>>714515293
Man I didn't know they did it with AC6 too, I haven't played that yet.

>>714513636
no one cares, his "ending" was a different color of a dude sitting on a chair, it sucked ass, it should've been expanded upon in the dlc
i dont give 2 fucks about the trannyfaggot and his age of ass-sex

>>714515293
>Why did Fromsoftware use their CGI cutscenes for trailers in Elden Ring and Armored Core instead of for story intros?
They had to scrap the original intro in the last moment. Originally you would start the game with Godfrey and the intro reflected that.

>>714509193
Imagine how stanky she is if Radagon decided he's rather be asexual

>>714504617
Mohg probably was always a blood cultist.
But it went from Illuminati type shit, to just feral murder for the hell of it over time. Either due to Mohg's own degeneration of religious extremism and obsessing over his dynasty, or through Miquella trying to get Mohg killed.

>>714515147
>Malenia questline

I fucking knew it, so fucking weird for Malenia to be shilled so much as the image of the base game only for her to be a side character and she literally just wants to kill us for no reason, we walk into the room and she gets hostile but why???? What did we do??? Is it implied that we come with evil intentions to just steal her rune? It felt so off to me, characters can just be characters they don't have to be excuses for bossfights.

>>714509193
Isn't that Messmer bit totally wrong? Messmer abandoned the crusade ages ago when he realized it was a setup. You find hornsent working in the keep library alongside his knights.

bros when are we getting another non multiplayer game?

>>714515569
Mohg's agents only target tarnished. Just like the soldiers of any other demigod. They can't invade non-tarnished.

>>714515571
I am of the belief Malenia is the game's most botched and wasted character, far more than Miquella. Its so weird to me that everyone complains about him but not how badly his sister was handled. A recurring joke before the DLC was why she just attacks you like a rabid dog when you know where her brother is.

>>714498096 (OP)
disingenuous nigger

>>714509193
Isnt rellana messmer's aunt?

>>714498096 (OP)
>radahn is the fanbase's darling for the base game
>gets revealed to have gone FAGGOT
>is one of the most hated bosses in the DLC in terms of gameplay and lore
>popularity drops off a the face of the earth
honestly it's one of the funniest things these souls games have ever done

>>714515571
>>714515807
From my understanding Millicent was originally meant to be an amnesiac Malenia and after guiding her to the end she would regain her memories and you would have to fight her to get to Miquela for the Age of Abundance.
Also if I recall that twinblade in the DLC was originally meant to be a Twin Princes Style weapon you got by upgrading a Scarlet Rot Twinblade you got from Malenia.

>>714515516
>>714513789
latch onto another game you stupid fucks

>>714515387
Wrong, he sucks ass and was one of the worst shardbearer boss fights in the base game, both pre (too much emphasis on a giant battle of you+friends, tedious start dodging his arrows, high base damage requiring high vig investment/reskill) and post nerf (way too fucking easy)
he's only saved by rykard behind a giant piece of shit boss with the worst design in the game

>>714515890
Literally none of this is true. Malenia always outshone him in popularity and everyone wanted Muh Godwyn.

>>714515949
t. can't comprehend the glory of going into battle with your allies against a grand threat.

>>714515807
Neither of them was botched or wasted when you understand the story. Malenia attacks you because she is defending the roots of the Haligtree

>>714515890
Only people that liked him were closeted homos. That's why they are so offended with him already having a boytoy.

>>714516050
Too bad it didn't feel like that, but maybe in Elden Ring 2 they can make a boss that succeeds in that regard after the practice they got with Nightreign

>>714516052
The DLC helped with her motivations somewhat but I still feel its too little too late.

>>714515890
>gets revealed to have gone FAGGOT
there's no sex in the Lands Between

>>714515151
He was already the leader of a bigass army before exile and he just remained their leader after exile. Do we ever get any reason to believe that society in the badlands was much more than a bunch of warrior tribes with Godfrey/Hoarah Loux as the chief? From his remembrance:
>After the Long March of the Tarnished came to an end, Godfrey divested himself of kingship, becoming a simple warrior once more.

>>714508221
Messmer was born with a cursed primordial flame inside him that was similar to the Giant's Flame, powered by the great serpent that resided within his soul. A flame that could have burnt the Erdtree to the ground. He also apparently is known for his capability for deep rage and hatred. But was still charismatic enough to gather dedicated followers like Gaius or Rellana.
Marika was understandably terrified or disturbed by this and used him to get two birds stoned at once. Turn his rage and anger on the Hornsent, who she wanted dead, and then seal them all away so neither could ever touch her new perfect Golden Order.

The time period for this is most likely shortly after Godfrey was banished by the demand of the Two Fingers. Because Messmer knows what a Tarnished is, and Godfrey was the first Tarnished.
So Marika finished off her first most dangerous enemy, the Fire Giants. And then she dealt with her second most dangerous enemies, her own son and former tormentors.

Radhan is a little bitch that ONLY cares about battle and nothing else and it's shown in the DLC through Freyja being abandoned by him despite years of loyal service.

>>714499362
Miquella never cared for Godwyn
>>714499528
>>radahn holds the stars in place to seal TLB's fate
headcanon

>>714515807
Malenis is a shardbearer, you are a tarnished. This isnt about muh miquella, the fight is about her shard plus she wouldnt let you leave that room without a fight after your achievements to get there since shes a fight autist

I don't understand the intention behind Godwyn's ending in the base game. Those Who Live in Death are all nonverbal skeletons that attack me on sight, why should I care about including them in the new order or "staying their persecution?" Furthermore, what's stopping me from killing Godwyn properly once Destined Death is fully released after killing Maliketh?

>>714516050
no thats fine on its own, its the execution
its a shit gimmick fight and doesnt require you to use any of your character's kit, it is by definition bad design same with rykard, same with yhorm the giant, gimmick shit fights that (almost) force you to fight "their" way, it completely defeats the point of crafting your own character and build

>>714516220
He cared for Godwyn enough to want to put his mutated corpse to rest, but otherwise people overstated how close they were.

>>714515649
He kills us because he's still focused on the Crusade. He says himself when he kills us that anything that isn't Graced dies by his hand.
He might have slowed down on his genocide, but he's still supporting one.

>>714516119
There's no "late". It's their DLC and the game in general is literally incomplete in all the story department for almost every character.. Malenia, Miquella and Radahn have a full story and their motivation and events are now clear and laid out, but even the Lands Between, the shift from Golden Order to Fundamentalism, the Omen curse and 60% of the game make actual sense now.

>>714516451
I agree the DLC did a lot to improve the base game's lore, but too many people still suffer from Radahn Derangement Syndrome to see this. I just feel her cut quest was a waste.

>>714516381
>He cared for Godwyn enough to want to put his mutated corpse to rest
He didn't care about him and wasn't doing it out of charity. There can only be one Prince of Death. Castle Sol is trying to bring a soulless Demigod to life and Godwyn being alive halts that. The solution was using Mohg as vessel instead

>>714516318
You can't kill Godwyn anymore. Because of the ritual he fell outside the power of the elden ring entirely. It's not like Ranni who has a soul, something which is part of the elden ring's order and can be recycled. If any rune could fix him it would have been the second half of the mark of the centipede but it did shit all.

>>714515293
Its crazy because their 3D cinematic trailers always explain way more about what the fuck is going on than the actual introduction we're given.

>>714498871
Anon if you wan't an actually feminist Fromsoft game go play Bloodborne

>>714516318
>Those Who Live in Death are all nonverbal skeletons that attack me on sight
wrong

>>714516651
>bloodborne is feminist
cute wrong opinion, did a yewtuber give it to ya?

>>714516052
nigga what are we gonna do to the haligtree? As far as I know we just visited because we were curious what's up in that place

I recall dinstinctly moving around the haligtree and thinking "damn this Miquella dude seems cool, he's against misbegotten and albinauric racism" all the while I am killing endless midbegotten and then Loretta the albinauric because they're just mindless zombies and then I get to Malenia and she's mad and has a boss health bar so oh well, guess he has to die too, it has this huge fucking dissonance that I don't think any other Fromsoft game has.

When I play Bloodborne and Dark Souls and Sekiro I keep thinking "damn of course I have to kill the monsters and zombies and wolves".
When I play Elden Ring I don't even know why the Raya Lucaria wizards are mad at me, are they zombies too? No one else seems to aknowledge the zombification of the lands between in the same way everyone aknwoedledges the beasts and hollows in past games, we kind of just accept everyone in Elden Ring is mindless and hostile because it's a game and we need enemies in the game.

Hell, think of Godrick's banished knights, they seems like mindless zombies to me but the guy guarding castle Morne is obviously human and non hostile to us, and Kenneth Haight, lands between citizen, why is he not a zombie? He0's not tarnished so then.... What is going on?

>>714516318
They attack you for the same reason any other enemy attacks you. You are a tarnished and to them tarnished are guided to kill the demigods which includes Godwyn.

>>714516710
>nigga what are we gonna do to the haligtree? As far as I know we just visited because we were curious what's up in that place
stopped reading, this is wrong and whatever else you typed after this is wrong, you clearly dont know anything and should remain quiet

>>714516710
That's irrelevant to Malenia. Malenia is defending the Haligtree

>>714516318
every character in the game is nonverval and attacks you on sight, idk why we should care about anyone or anything, are they gonna dezombify if you mend the Elden Ring or something? I don't mind repopulating with Ranni but I need as many bitches as possible to avoid incest, I guess that's cool, good incentive to pursue the Elden Throne, getting bitches.

>>714516710
based and undeniably true in all regards
>>714516798
seething lorechimp who dedicates all his free time to watching lore vids

>>714516710
>As far as I know we just visited because we were curious what's up in that place
You are there because Gideon told you how to get there to kill another demigod. That's the in-game reason. That's why everyone wants to kill you. Including Mallenia.

>>714516318
Those who live in death are not necessarily skeletons. The majority of them is because MArika's people were absorbed in the roots while the Sun Realm people were buried and use the emblems of the Sun Realm
Ironeye is also TWLID

>>714516919
>i dont know what we're doing in the haligtree
>accuses other people of watching morons with wrong theories on jewtube when he doesnt even know the answers to the simplest questions the base game spells out for you with multiple characters
the lack of self-awareness is very sad

>>714516318
Those who live in death can be intelligent (especially if we take Nightreign into account), The Skelies are just animated by rancorous spirits that through cracks in the order fell outside of it and are kept around by their negative emotions.
Putting the rune in normalizes Living in Death as a natural part of nature, if everyone can become a zombie or ghost does it matter anymore?

>>714517076
you got owned hard (by me) lmao. stop posting

>>714516798
>>714516846
And she jus assumes we're hostile and comes to kill us because we had the audacity to step into her boss room.
What the fuck is the tarnished ven gonna do about the Haligtree? In fact I am pretty sure the Haligtree was a failed project anyway, why can't I fucking tell Malenia that I know where her brother is if I know where her brother is? Are we supposed to to just assume the tarnished we control is thinking "damn I gotta get these bitches out of my way because I want to be the one and only elden lord" all the time and nothing else matters? I just don't think the execution is very good.

>>714517126
i can smell the brown skin through the screen

>>714504541
>but if Radahn promised, why did Malenia go to kill him?
Because a Lord and a God must be reborn, as it is shown in the Secret Rite Scroll.
Are you retarded?

Just dropping in to say Fire Giant is the most overhated and underrated boss.

>10/10 audiovisual presentation
>gameplay complaints are all skill issue
>10/10 lore, this massive imposing enemy is mid-sized for his race, he's the last imprisoned and cursed survivor, and he's badly injured hobbling toward you on a bad leg and clumsily defending himself

>>714517209
Consort Radahn is far more overhated

>>714517171
okay SEAmutt

>>714516921
And every enemy just sees us and inmediately knows that, every fucking dude in the lands between thinks "oh damn, thast tarnished wants my lord's rune! I must kill him!".

Maybe you can accept that but I'm sorry I don't think it's very well done and I know Fromsoft has done better before because this doesn't happen outside Elden Ring.

>>714517158
>why can't I fucking tell Malenia that I know where her brother is
Your grace extends only towards killing demigods. If the game had balls you could tell Mallenia the truth but lose grace and have only one more death and it's game over and a deleted save.

>>714506447
>>714506642
Bloodborne is their horror game.

>>714517158
just because you dont understand the motivations doesnt mean the motivations are bad or wrong, its been spelled out for you, think harder please

>>714517076
explain to me why everyone is a zombie but not Kenneth Haight and Hyetta and the Morne castle guy

>>714517309
Well I want another one, something closer in nature to Kuon perhaps.

>>714517280
There isn't a single NPC in the game that can't tell you aren't a tarnished form a mile away. The merchants even shout out to you from a far distance knowing you are a tarnished. There is something that makes everyone know who the player is.

>>714517276
nevermind ill be more specific, i can smell the self-loating indian through the screen

>>714517209
>underrated
>fighting an ankle
no thanks

from lorecattle are some of the most pathetic bitchboys in existence kek. if i met you irl i would jerk my chest out towards you and you would recoil in fear and be like "a-ahhh! no, no no please don't hurt me please!" hahaha. fucking pussies

>>714508189
They toss shade because they can’t cope with the massive feminist angle that Miyazaki goes for. Even in the original Dark Souls he was going to have some pyromancies be female exclusive. Thank god he scrapped that idea - which was only partially brought over in the third.

Anyone who says “but she got mind broken!” or “but it’s a female moment game!” ignore that all the great nations were begat by women. Women are as much civilization enders as they are civilization starters.

>>714504541

Did you play the game?

>A scroll made of white tree bark.
>Few can decipher the scroll,
which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway
said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow.
>"A lord will usher in a god's return,
and the lord's soul will require a vessel."

>Greatsword patterned after the black steeple of the Helphen, the lampwood which guides the dead of the spirit world.
>The lamplight is similar to grace in appearance, only it is said that it can only be seen by those who met their death in battle.

>Incantation of the servants of rot.
>Enchants armament held in the right hand with poison. This incantation can be cast while in motion.
>Those who dwell within poison know rot all too well. The death that begets life, that comes to all equally.
>That is to say: it is the cycle of rebirth put into practice.

>Ohh great sun! Frigid sun of Sol!
>Surrender yourself to the eclipse!
>Grant life to the soulless bones!

>Lord Miquella, forgive me.
>The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking.
>Your comrade remains soulless...
>I will never set my eyes upon it now...
>Your divine Haligtree.

>>714517371
>explain to me why some are zombies but some aren't
? idk what you really expect me to respond with?

>>714517413
stop trying to act tough rajesh. every interaction is me pwning you hard while everyone laughs at you lmao

>>714517371
Lordsworn soldiers definitively aren't zombies because Jerren orders the Redmane soldiers to leave their posts in the fortress for the festival.

>>714498218
Japan has been writing incest garbage long before George R.R. Martin was even born, the gods they worship in their religion are a married couple who also happen to be brother and sister.

You know it says a lot there's virtually no Nightreign in this thread

>>714516710
I don't really disagree with your point but there's a few explanations. Grunt enemies are mostly mindless if we take into account Patches' story, but even that story shows that you can sort of communicate with them outside of gameplay limitations. Stronger beings, I think, are implied to not be mindless at all considering their fighting skill and the examples you named. Plus almost all the DLC NPCs are sound of mind and some of them are evidently very old (Ansbach/Freyja having known Mohg and Radahn personally pre-Shattering).
It's just that as a Tarnished most enemies never even bother reasoning with you plus you are a canonical murderhobo collecting runes. Become Elden Lord, that's your only goal as a Tarnished.

>>714504541
You have to die to be reborn as Lord and God
The Tarnished, all of them that try to become Elden Lord, have died and are reborn in a vessel
Radagon and Marika die and are reborn

>>714517561
>sars do not kindly redeem the (you)
okay

>>714517401
I don't think they have it in them to do that style of horror game anymore. Bloodborne 2 is the best you can hope for.

>>714517637
Nightreign has the most obscure and undecipherable lore since King's Field 4.

>>714517280
>>714517412
Anyone from the Lands Between has golden grace shining in their eyes, some more, some less, but its total absence outs you immediately.

>>714517741
lol! great post bud. NOT! *punches you hard in the face so you fall down* haha! now what pussy boy?

>>714517637
nightreign hides a lot of lore moreso than the base game or dlc, also its clearly either so far in the future or different timeline it doesnt apply much to the base game beyond a few key revelations

>>714516710
Retard
>Follow the path that has been set for you, and you will make enemies of all others: the monks, the sorcerers, the ancient dragon knights and the scions of gold. Heed me — the Lands Between offers no welcome to the Tarnished.

>>714498096 (OP)
ZAMN

>>714517934
kek

>>714517321
The motivations in Elden Ring are completely decroded from the point of view of the main character, you can say that "oh in the lore we are gathering runes to improve the Elden Ring we will use when we become lords" but the game doesn't give off that vibe at all, Morgott, Godrick, Rykard, Rennalla to a certain extent, Mohg, and Radahn, wirth those character I get why I am there to kill them, they're either gross or incompetent or completely corrupted or completely brainwashed, but when I get to Malenia I just don't understand what's going on, we went to kill her too? We have no good excuse, Ranni was just hanging out and then we spoke to her and agreed to work with her, that's cool, Malenia though... with her it's on sight, she sees us and smells that it's bossfight time, not even a cutscene showing some conflict, or giving any reason to think "oh she doesn't want us tobe elden lord", she just appears, says she has a sad backstory, then fights and I only think we're fighting her because Elden Ring needs bossfights and not for any other good reason.

I completely get why I have to kill Godfrey, we're competing for Elden Lord title, I respect him, he respescts the tarnished in turn, then we fight, and with Maliketh, I don't like the execution but well at least it makes sense that he would withhold the rune of death given his character...

Of all the characters Malenia is the only that puzzles me this much, it legit feels like they wanted to do more but then gave up and decided "fuck it just make her into a hard boss and people will shill her"

>>714517998
>Of all the characters Malenia is the only that puzzles me this much, it legit feels like they wanted to do more
Literally true, she has an entirely cut questline.

>>714515571
Yeah, she really is a badly executed character.
In the story, she's either a mindless drone or an absolute bitch that killed 1/5th of the world because she was too salty to accept a tie with the other strongest living demigod. All in service of her dumbass brother's plan.
But in-game, more than any other boss, her attacking the player has almost no justification. She's not meant to be insane or sadistic like Godrick, or actively hunting Tarnished like Morgott. Instead she just starts hunting the player as soon as we walk into her room without prompting. Which fits well with her having a questline that eventually led to a tragic showdown, but doesn't fit well with From's sympathetic portrayal of her character in the game.

>>714498218
Dark Souls had it before. Gwyn was doing an incest/selfcest thing all throughout the lore of the first game.

>>714504541
A Lord and a God must die and be reborn

Miquella wishes to use grace like the Fingers do, but to control the Fate and minds of all the Lands Between, invading and conquering anyone who opposes him

Esrasing Casuality means reverting the creation of the grace of Gold and restoring the Grace of Light, removing shadow. The player is animated by the Grace of Gold and would lose his immortality or even die if that happened

Miquella needs to use Mohg because his ritual to restore life to the soulless bones of the Rotal Remains failed

Miquella accesses the Realm of Shadow through Mohg's blood powers

>>714498271
>>714513220
>>714515293
>>714516798
>>714517495
>>714518164
stfu retard

>>714515571
>>714515913
>>714515147
>>714515006
>>714518094
>source: my ass

>>714498871
What’s insulting is that looking deep into the fucking galaxy (the primeval current) takes up less intelligence than staring at the fucking moon.

HOW? WHY? ???

And then the DLC reinforces this insult by giving us Ymir - someone who should be more powerful than Rennala is given just another lousy mini boss treatment - very much like poor Gideon.

Why did Miyazaki give Rennala and Rellana their own legitimate boss fights while they gave Ymir and Gideon lame ass encounters? For fuck’s sake.

Don’t even get me started on Ymir’s spell Fleeting Microcosm. Why should creating two moons take up more intelligence than creating a miniature universe?

It’s insufferable logic. Ymir’s crown even says “the moon is but the closest body in space, nothing more”, and yet his spells are still quite pathetic.

Is Miyazaki rubbing his horse shut female brained logic into the game? Maybe. But I sure hope not. He even made his favorite Carians a whole lot worse by introducing Rellana - who turns the Carian legacy in to a giant fucking joke (“lol them Carian gurls love red heads XD haha”), which is a bit weird. Why would he do that? It’s ab oc donut steel edgelord tier character.

>>714517998
>The motivations in Elden Ring are completely decroded from the point of view of the main character, you can say that "oh in the lore we are gathering runes to improve the Elden Ring we will use when we become lords" but the game doesn't give off that vibe at all
well no shit because that idea is moronic and wrong, idk where you got this from but being mad that this doesnt make sense when nothing in the game tells you this

>>714518134
her knights attack you on sight, why would she be any different

both of you are just sitting here saying "I DONT UNDERSTAND ITS BAD!!!" when its been clearly explained to you why you need to fight her....

>>714517562
Nigga have you seen how they look

>>714517518
Yeah, why is everyone in the lands between zombified except some cherrypicked NPCs? Makes sense demigods wouldn't be I suppose, and tarnished as well, I get why they're still human and sane, but why do the lands between commoners... like that? So many enemies are obviously mindless grunting mad crazy motherfuckers who were once capable of reason but not anymore.

Hell, why the fuck dod ragons attack us? IU get why wyverns like Agheel may be agressive, but literally what the fuck kinda problem does Lanseax have with us? She used to be a smart lil girl who communed with the people of the golden order, and we see a peaceful dragon priestess in the DLC, but Lanseax seems to just be crazy and attakcs us because we should fuck off in particular I guess???

It's pretty obvious Fromsoft just needed the game to have enemies and didn't bother to justify it as well as with other older games of theirs IMO.

>>714518313
go see a therapist

>ignores the concept of stagger
How is this legal?

>>714518134
You didn't understand the story or Malenia at all
Malenia uses Scarlet Rot for Miquella.
It's the power of rebirth and lifesteal

>>714518378
it's not, he knows it's over and that he has nothing to lose so he's hacking

>>714518304
Nigger

>>714517998
>be Tarnished
>grace says become Elden Lord
>need to mend the Elden Ring with Great Runes
>Two Fingers, allegedly in contact with God, tell you to kill the demigods because they are failures
>demigods have Great Runes
>cue boss fight
But I still agree it's less easy to get behind than in other From games.

>>714498096 (OP)
I can't believe this MS paint comic became real

>>714518365
>Nigga have you seen how they look
Looks identical to the northerner race from the character creator.

>>714518365
>and didn't bother to justify it as well as with other older games of theirs IMO.
annnd there it is, another ds1 fanboy who is buttmad elden ring wasnt dark souls 4 and will complain about anything they can find
fuck off and go play your easy ass game

>>714518378
There are like 6 of these guys in the whole game

>>714518478
KINOOOOOO

>>714518371
I’m just putting it all together you enormous fucking brainlet. If you’re mildly familiar with the cosmos you’d know just how stupid this decision was.

>>714498871
>A woman that communes with a divine entity found in an abandoned city and uses it to reach a position of power she is specifically said to be unfit to hold is a feminist wet dream
It's hilarious how all criticism of every single bit of Elden Ring story is in some extremely ignorant post that didn't understand the game at all
You are a fucking retard

>>714518378
cant you stagger them? i remember being able to but maybe those were my cold procs

>>714510902
You killed his ass. He's a corpse puppet

>>714518478
Heolstor is their most Zanzibart type boss yet

>>714518478
HOLY KINO
Miyazaki truly carters to my tastes only.

>>714498096 (OP)
>This is the worst character assassination in video games.
Malenia's was worse, at least Radhan was puppeted, she was willing.

>>714518331
What are the motivations in the game then? I was pretty sure the goal was "become elden lord" and that's literally what we do in all the endings, why gather runes otherwise?

I have never seen a single critique of Elden Ring story that actually understood even the most basic elements of Elden Ring story

>>714518678
heres one bitch: its trash ahahaha!

My favourite shard bearer

>>714504541
A lord has to be reborn into the role.
Tarnished all fit this criteria by default, but anything else has to die first.
This is even implied to be the case with Placidusax, who lost their first head long before Bayle took the other two, to the point that all of Placi's iconography depicts them with four heads, despite clearly having 5 necks.

The problem is Malenia is a sore fucking loser, and tried to flip the table when she got her ass handed to her, and gave Radahn super aids, instead of killing him.
This is arguably why she was abandoned the way she was, her fuck up over her ego was DISASTROUS to Miquela's plan. If she'd just accepted the loss she could have tried again, now Radahn's body was useless.

>>714518634
You gather runes to gather strength for yourself to defeat the shardbearers and anything else in your path, it has nothing to do with "improving" the elden ring once you become lord, melina explains at the start of the game, runes are the game's enumeration of power

>>714518737
Godefroy?

>>714518737
i like the fight, but having his "brother" in the everjail was pretty cringe

>>714518469
All I know is that when I was invading Stormveil and killed Godrick it all made sense to me, when I invade the Volcano Manor it starts to feel weird because Tanith is friendly with us but then we invade the manor to kill Rykard but she's stiull friendly? Then with Leyndell I get that Morgott and golden order soldiers hate us, makes sense again, Ray Lucaria has been closed off during the shattering and when we enter they just become hostile on sight which seems off to me but ok, I can suspend my disbelief a little, then we get to the Haligtree though, and I just don't know anymore, it never seemed to me like Haligtree dwellers would have a particular reason to be made at tarnished, and again, this can be fixed in the canon if I just accept "oh, in the lore the tarnished came here to kill Malenia to gather her rune" but I'm sorry I just don't like that, I wanted to kill literally everyone else but not Malenia, and my character in this games is literally me, so I was just confused.

>>714518581
All of what you just said affirms his point, and shows just how much in denial you fags are.

Also she didn’t glimpse the moon under the ground you stupid fucking lorelet.

>>714518678
You have to remember we're on /v/ and talking about games you haven't played is the norm. You'll always see these people whining about stupid and wrong shit they heard from lore video essays because that's their sole point of interaction with these games.

>>714510902
The chains on his arms make it clear that the implication is he's controlled. When his soul starts awakening more with the red aura, Miquella even rushes out of the gate to try overwriting the aura, even though his arms aren't fully created yet. Miquella absolutely does not want Radahn to fully manifest, because he'd be uncontrollable and would reject Miquella.

>>714518581
>reach a position of power she is specifically said to be unfit to hold is a feminist wet dream
Yes……? That’s feminism right there. Shoving women into places they really shouldn’t be.

>>714518891
That was his father.

>>714518496
This isn't true, in fact, I have never played Dark Souls 1 or 2, I have only played Elden Ring, Dark Souls 3, and Sekiro, overall my favorite is Elden Ring but if I have to play one for 20 hours I'd choose Sekiro, I am fond of DS3 for being my first though. Also I played the DeS Remake knowing that the revamped graphics were soulless but hey I didn't have a PS3 so what could I do? That game was really fun too.

My experience with DS1 and 2 is through streamers and while I can appreciate the first game I don't like the fags who still think it's the best and Fromsoft fell off afterwards.

>>714518905
>when I invade the Volcano Manor it starts to feel weird because Tanith is friendly with us but then we invade the manor to kill Rykard but she's stiull friendly?
because you literally agree to join her cause when you walk up to her, and she remains friendly until you either end the questline and kill rykard or you discover rykard by snooping around through the secret tunnel....................

its so clear so many of you just button mashed all the dialogue, dont read anything, dont read any item descriptions, then complain about the lore and story in threads like these, please stop posting unless you have anything worthwhile to say or at least until you actually play the fucking video game

Mohg

>>714518634
>What are the motivations in the game then?
The Two Fingers in their incantations are said to hope for the Tarnished to endlessly fight, leave saplings and struggle endlessly. The Tarnished are specifically indicated as enemy number 1. The Fingers actually control through Grace a lot of enemies, in a similar process to what Miquella's Age of Compassion would be, to try and kill the Tarnished because their struggle is what they want. In the end Marika sought nothing more than for the Tarnished to kill Demigods to generate that power, unseal Death and kill herself and Radagon anjd merge in divinity, because that's how a true God is born, using death sacrifices (from all the tarnished) and being reborn merged after death.
In the same way the Two Fingers control all enemies with grace, Miquella wants to tame everything

Read the Two Fingers incantations

>>714518313
>Why did Miyazaki give Rennala and Rellana their own legitimate boss fights
You don't even fight the real Rennala.

>>714519227
A Great Lord. Worthy of service and loyalty. He would bring a new beautiful age for all the rejected and despised.

>>714498871
Azur and Lusat reached 70 int and that one guy in the DLC was around that level too since he taught the sisters.

>>714519342
And it’s still given boss fight status.

>>714519342
This retarded schizo doesn't care, woman bad even in a game where you kill them and steal their shit.

>>714519227
My FUARKING Lord

>>714519341
Which is revealed by Gideon at the end, but nobody wants to read into it and prefers to meme it lol
Patches also foreshadows this talking about how Lords and Gods use their soldiers and then throw them away

>>714519227
Peace Be Upon Him

>>714519135
Niga I read the dialogue, I watched Vaati, I have appreciated the good things in this game many times over but I'm sorry to tell you sometimes the game does things in a way that seems a bit shit to me, that's how it is.

I join her and from her point of view she doesn't even know for a second that I found the illusory wall and I am in her house killing Rykard servants and serpent soldiers willy nilly? Doesn't notice? Doesn't mind? I get that if you kill Rykard she seems sad but respects you for it due to Rykard's fucked up ideals and the way she's eaten them up, but it's still very weird that at no point does she comment on us literally cleaving through her house trying to find her husband and is just like "oh btw go kill this guy for me pls".

The assasiation questline is also ass btw, locking so many armor sets behind it and also having it let you skip a whole dungeon seems like shittass game design to me, so unsatisfying.

>>714518581
The moon being some sort of entity is why it costs the most intelligence. ALL sorcery is alive to some degree. But she (Rennala) herself does not have the most intelligence since her brain isn’t a hunk of the stuff sorcery is made of.

>>714519402
I wonder if Ymir secretly laughed at the crystalized fools that thought they grasped a fragment of truth when he was perfecting the power of the Microcosm. Which is the actual power of creation not some gay star dust and phallic glintstone shards.

>>714519341
>>714519513
Gideon found out about this and was happy about it and decided to defend it? Why is he doing that, doesn't seem like he's a very standup guy.

>>714519341
…Where is it implied that the Fingers control enemies through Grace? They’re stumped when the Erdtree is sealed, and it’s clear that Marika is the one guiding you.

>>714519341
>>714519513
This is bullshit but I believe it

>>714519513
Most people on /v/ were adamant that killing the Elden Beast you killed the Greater Will.

>>714519667
He didn’t transcend humanity. He’s not a surviving ancient astrologer. He’s not on the same level as Azur and Lusat. Also, his spell only costs 42 intelligence.

>creating a miniature universe costs 30 less INT than creating a miniature moon
BRAVO MIYAZAKI

>>714519531
>I watched Vaati
LMAO
that faggot steals everything from us and gets 60% of his videos wrong
the only original thought that retard ever had was about the fucking land octopi and he was dead wrong about that too

listen, just keep your dogshit opinions to yourself if you dont know whats going on or just ask basic questions without qualifying things as "good" and "bad" if you dont understand them

>>714518891
>>714518880
He is really good gameplay, lore wise boss and he reminds me of myself. He is the weakest of them all, therefore he grafts, and he still a weakling. He tried all different things and nothing helped. The castle in decay, I don't even think its rightfully his.

>>714519694
The game is vague and never talks about the level of lucidity of the enemies or why they attack you, so lorefags need to work very hard to create reasons why even though the actual reason is that the game needed to have enemies to overcome so that's why everyone's hostile except for like 3 guys who are NPCs.

>>714517637
Why would people talk about a non-canon spin-off in a lore thread?
Heolstor bodies PCR btw

>>714519821
>He didn’t transcend humanity.
He quite literally learned how to create life in the same way Metry did it. He is so far beyond any other sorcerer in the setting it's not even funny. Graven mages collect humans to make a star like retards. Ymir learned to create a entire universe and draw power from it.

>>714516710
>No one else seems to aknowledge the zombification of the lands between in the same way everyone aknwoedledges the beasts and hollows
Because there isn't really zombification going on. We see soldiers doing things, the people when unarmed run from you and hide in fear. Kenneth wasn't ousted by a zombie he was ousted by a Knight who was working for Mohg. Because you are a literal foreign barbarian who is specifically here to pillage.

>>714519848
I watched vaati was a short sentence to communicate that I have taken an interest in the game's lore and I have cared but I'm sorry to tell you that even the things I love can have flaws, and that's what's going on with this game, I criticise it so much because I know From can do better and they have done better before and I expect a lot from them because I respect them.

>>714519968
>Heolstor bodies PCR btw
based and correct-pilled

>>714519667
>Which is the actual power of creation not some gay star dust and phallic glintstone shards.
Um. Ymir IS a glintstone sorcery and DOES equate glintstone to the greater will. It’s how life started. The great rupture or fracturing of the one great. His speech is a nod to how we all come from stardust. It’s the building blocks of creation, and life. It’s the root.

>>714519968
Heolstor is just Soul of Cinder again but with even less lore. At least there's something to talk about with PCR.

>>714519868
Stormveil belonged to a "Storm King" that Godfrey defeated and for all we know it was an unmanned ruin when Godrick decided to flee there.

>>714520084
yes we know, the radahn fight was so bad from both a gameplay and story perspective that both of you are correct

>>714520071
Upvoted my good sir
>I clapped when Zanzibart split the sky

>>714519978
>He is so far beyond any other sorcerer in the setting it's not even funny.
He’s a failed finger mother. Lusat is legit turning into an Astel.
>Ymir learned to create an entire universe and draw power from it.
Nah. He found it in the finger ruins. The microcosm is explicitly ‘fleeting’ unlike the one Metyr is grasping.

>>714520074
Becoming a rock like a glintsone tard isn't the key to uncovering the secrets of life tho. That's why he quit while he still wasn't a walking fossil.

>>714520101
a storm king you say.....
>>714520167
forgive me......

>>714520146
You can at least point to bosses like Messmer or Libra instead of settling for bland nothing like Heolstor

>>714519227
A shame what happened to his vessel. Miquella deserved the worst of the worst.

>>714520146
NPC spotted

>>714519868
Credit where it's due for Godrick
He seems to have his shit together more than pretty much anyone else.
Godrick himself is more or less sane and in control of himself, he's not dying of anything, his troops are maintaining the roads to a much greater extent than anywhere else, and he has actual people living in his territory that aren't complete lunatics. He's not overrun with terrible monsters, and, in his own way, he's come out on top in most of his interactions with everyone else. Sure, it's easy to say he lost to Malenia, but, did he really? Malenia went home having accomplished none of her goals, he went home having accomplished all of his.

>>714520015
Ashina soldiers look like normal humans, lands between citizens don't, lands between citizens also never speak, even Yharnamites speak in the early stages of the beastly scourge.

Lands between residents just grunt and try to kill you except for the wandering nobles sometimes, and I guess the super rotten zombies that appear sometimes like the ones wandering the roads on Caelid.

There's obviously a process going on that's made people crazy and fucked up in the lands between and that's why the enemies are the way they are.

>>714520268
both of these are also true
i cant understate how much i disliked the radahn fight compared to many other From bosses, even after learning to no-hit him
thankfully they removed some of the visual clutter in the nerf

>>714520191
>He found it in the finger ruins.
>A finger sorcery of Count Ymir, High Priest.
He is the inventor of finger spells. All of them are his work. That's a new school of magic. His second btw, after the moon spells.

>>714520268
>>714520084
Bodies him in a fight, anon.
I will say that what little we know of Heolstor's lore is better than PCR, though.

>>714518378
Classic SotE trash

>>714520385
He's weak to holy he wouldn't stand a chance
>I will say that what little we know of Heolstor's lore is better than PCR,
Zanzibart was consumed by the evil darkness and so he became the dark lord of evil

>>714520218
Becoming the stuff that sorcery is made of is what glintstone sorcerers strife for. It’s a form of trans-humanism. Azur and Lusat are quite literally based on the Sokushinbutsu from Sekiro, or ‘living Buddhas’, and it’s a form of cosmic horror Hindu (Buddhism stems from Hinduism) logic. They’ve ascended. You can’t even DO anything to them. It’s why there’s a third eye symbol on their heads. They’ve opened their inner eye and are probably astral projecting into the cosmos the way Sellen astral projects out of her prison.

But for all we know we killed Ymir at the beginning stages of his transformation. I am really unsure. He might have become a true abomination.

>>714520101
The storm king was a giant hawk. You find his ashes but can't use them because you aren't attuned to the crucible like Nepheli.

>>714520438
Classic shitter

>>714520365
Yeah he seems derranged but I get why a soldier may want to support him instead of the other demigods because all the other places are incredibly fucked up too, even if you can say the other demigods are cooler and more powerful it may still not be a very good prospekt to serve for them.


Though Gostoc does say that Godrick was particularly tyranic but hey maybe it was just to him, after all I think Gostoc was a bastard of Godrick's no?

>>714519553
Sorcery is souls like in every Miyazaki game. Glintstones are souls as seen with Sellen.
The Moon is an entity created through the Eternal City sacrifices and is the one with the most souls. Nokron's Moon was foun by Rennala, the Black Moon was said to be hanging from the sky of Nokstella and guide countless stars)
>>714519694
Every single spell of the Two Fingers is a pronouncement
>Follow the path that has been set for you, and you will make enemies of all others: the monks, the sorcerers, the ancient dragon knights and the scions of gold. Heed me — the Lands Between offers no welcome to the Tarnished.

>Gideon gained true knowledge after his long exchange with the Two Fingers - discovering all had been broken long ago;
that the trembling fingers, bent with age, and the Erdtree itself, were no exception.

In the DLC, the Lampreys can use spells that bind the player, that0's the effect of their Figer-like powers
>Light-pink mushroom resembling a wizened finger. Material used for crafting items. >Exceedingly rare to find. Used to by those who wish to become fingers to induce hallucinations. They call these mushrooms the stillborn of the Two Fingers.

Ranni specifically says she discarded her body to "not be controlled by that thing" and both Grace and Frenzy grow in the eye of the host and can have effects of controlling and bionding emotions and actions, such as the non-aggression zones imposed by the Fingers but that the Confessors who lack Grace can actually violate as assassins

There's also Irises of Occultation and Grace created to imitate and supplement the lack of actual Grace in the Realm of Shadow, used to control Messmer troops, who would otherwise desert and disobey, something n ot seen in the Lands Between.

This is why Ansbach correctly remanks how scary and dangerous Miquella is, regardless of what his intentions are.

>>714519812
Elden Ring in general filters low IQ individuals with its goated story and lore

So many people in this thread just can't accept that people don't like Radahn that much and, its not really about the gameplay or boss design, hes just not the best fit for a final boss and its hilarious.

>>714520504
Yup, that's better than PCR.
Not even considering the stuff concerning Wylder and Duchess, too.

>>714520369
It's because normal death is extremely difficult because of the entire Rune of Death thing, but previously there was the custom of Erdtree rebirth. Now that civilization has mostly collapsed and most catacombs are infested with deathroot no one can get properly recycled anymore and withers away.
This much can be inferred from in-game info. My own headcanon is that stronger enemies are less decayed and more lucid because they're sustained by more runes.

>>714520614
I'd say the Radahn Derangement Syndrome is funnier.

>>714518378
The only one of these that sucked was the ice one. And there’s only one ice one in the whole game.

>>714520601
Also the Nox use Mirrorhelms to deflect the Grace, specifically to counter the vassals of the Greater Will (the Fingers), something Iji also uses to further prove the Fingers use grace.

The Fingers can control the Shadowbound beasts in the same way

>>714520369
>There's obviously a process going on that's made people crazy and fucked up in the lands between and that's why the enemies are the way they are.
Disruption of erdtree burials which fucked up death since is no natural death.

>>714498096 (OP)
>>714498218
THE LOATHSOME SIBLING FUCKER!!!

>>714520593
That's cut content, but Gostoc is missing an arm, Godrick probably wanted one for grafting, maybe as punishment.

>>714520847
delete this

>>714520504
I'm pretty sure Heolstor was a Carian prince or noble who died during the shattering and was promised to marry dutchess?

Maybe I got it wrong? And the lore is that in his despair after being defeated he cursed the world and gave into the night.

Although nightreign item descriptions say Heolstor "faced the hero" which seems more like he fought Radagon or something like that, it also would make more sense if there's carian nobles who died during the Liurnia wars, but then... if he died how the fuck did the night take hold of him?

What the fuck is even the night? It's just like an abstract force that turns cool creatures from across time and space into nightlords because we need cool bossfights I suppose.

>>714520614
>hes just not the best fit
It is the only fit because the story, from the ground up, was built with him as final DLC boss
You not liking it is irrelevant to that
>>714520787
Not sure if shadowbound beasts have grace or are controlled through the Finger Mimic method instead desu

>>714520383
>He is the inventor of finger spells
No. It’s mentioned he found them in the ruins. He went from there. Microcosm spells were already being used by Metyr. The lampreys are casting finger sorceries.

Rennala and Ymir didn’t discover moon magic. People who gazing at the moon for a much longer period of time. Rennala and her sister saw the moons as children when they were being tutored by Ymir.

Whether Ymir was coping about the moon or sincerely wasn’t impressed, I’m unsure.

>>714520615
At least with PCR we get a parallel to Marika and her journey. Helstor is a generic nameless knight who has the Moonlight Greatsword because remember the Moonlight Greatsword, we're Fromsoft we have to have it, my guiding moonlight.....
Nightreign had the potential to break free of its trappings but they chose to play it safe and the final boss reflects this. You can hate PCR all you want but I won't let an actual fanservice boss get sucked off in comparison.

>>714520590
Classic SotE apologist

>>714517637
I actually like Nightreign’s bosses more than SOTE’s overall. There’s a lot of A-tiers. Only Libra matches Messmer, Midra, and Bayle. Rellana and Dancing Lion are cool, and I never hated Gaius, but the rest of the bosses are just kinda meh.

>>714514496
He is right.

>>714520961
nope, sideshowed in, learn2datamine lorelet

>>714519341
>>714519513
Actually eye-opening

>>714498096 (OP)
This was such an artistic failure that the only way Miyazaki could ever possibly atone for it is to commit suicide.

>>714520846
Erdtree burials were already disruptive according to the DLC. The proper way to die was being cremated and your ash should be either dispersed or gathered in a place of rest. But when Marika came to power she forbade the usage of fire in burial rites. These ancient practices are the source of all the ash related arts and have no connection to the edrtree despite what the golden order claims.

>>714520614
you mean people dont want 2 brothers assfucking for eternity in an Age of Cum-Passion as the final boss?
crazy

>>714520614
I like Radahn's design
I like the kinda neat juxtaposition of the big, warrior, fighter man actually being a very talented mage.

I like almost nothing else about Radahn, and that was before the DLC. I like Radahn's aesthetic, I do not care for the character, or the lore figure, and his fight is hard carried by summoning your goons, and charging up the beach at him, the actual execution of the fight is eh.
The DLC added nothing to Radahn that I enjoyed, besides the slightly different armor set, and a bit more that I disliked.

>>714521009
You like Nightreign's bosses more but also only one boss matches the best of SOTE? Its not the bosses you like more, you just like Nightreign's gameplay more.
Like how is lmao 2bugs better than anything? Maris? Three dogs? There's a lot of uninspired stuff here.

>>714520601
>Sorcery is souls like in every Miyazaki game. Glintstones are souls as seen with Sellen.
It’s deeper than that. It’s life force, period. It’s where all life comes from. It’s blue. The nature of yellow in relation to blue is an intentional mystery—and we know that Metyr predates the Beast. It’s likely that the Ring sent life on a certain path, but is not responsible for life itself. Life is working differently away from the Erd, as we see underground and on the mountaintops. It’s a ‘goldilocks zone’.

>>714521009
gaius' reputation got fucked up because of his charge attack, otherwise he's fine

>>714518678
I have never seen a defender of Elden Ring who could answer even basic questions about continuity errors without inserting their schizo headcanon.

>>714521109
That is different, the twinbird soul burnings was one way, yiu see what the golden order did bring, where your body is given to the roots to be recycled. This got fucked when Godwyn was given to the roots because he had no soul thus causing the spread of deathroot and those who live in death.

>>714521231
list some continuity errors you believe exist

>>714521109
There's no singular proper way to die.
The Sun Realm buried their dead in graveyards and catacombs, that are now full of raising skeletons for this reason
Marika took the Rune of the Unborn from the Shaman Village and removed the concept of Death, but the real reason the Age of Plenty might haveendedcould be her not being more than a usurper rather than the Erdtree burial being wrong

>>714521009
Nigga you just said all the main bosses in SotE are from amazing to good and only 2 are meh.

I'm not saying you should think that though, but it did seem like you said that.

I love SotE bosses but I think Radahn 2nd phase is ass and Metyr is ass and Gaius is ass. I can forgive it because personally I love every other remembrance boss to death.


It's fine if you prefer Nightreign's lineup though cause there's so much cool stuff in there, Fulghor runs circles around Gaius and I wish we got him instead in the DLC.

>>714520601
>The Moon is an entity created through the Eternal City sacrifices and is the one with the most souls. Nokron's Moon was foun by Rennala, the Black Moon was said to be hanging from the sky of Nokstella and guide countless stars)

An artificial moon below ground amid the subterranean nebulae was surely a giant missed opportunity, but the Eternal cities weren’t always underground, and they worshiped the moons before they were buried.

Specifically, in game evidence supports that the black moon was destroyed when it attracted a bunch of Astels which then laid waste to the Eternal, sinking them.

>>714520957
there is no lore its Nightreign, there are Dark Souls bosses thrown in.

>>714498096 (OP)
>AND HERE IS THE FINAL BOSS OF THE SERIES....
>THE SAME GUY YOU FOUGHT BEFORE 50 HOURS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
will never not be shit

>>714521231
Elden Ring loregods are constently btfoing haters though.
They are doing so in this very thread which was made by OP seething after getting BTFO in the one yesterday
Are you the guy pretending every lore post si from the same "schizo"

>>714521425
Is this the most brainlet take possible?

>>714521390
Wrong.

>>714521326
Miquella abandons his flesh twice.

>>714521425
the final boss of elden ring is still radagon/elden beast

>>714521192
>but is not responsible for life itself.
The Greater Will is the origin of life and the Elden Ring is the roadmap it evolves from.

>>714520614
Radahn is literally the ultimate elden lord rival, the strongest demigod, admired and surpassed Radagon and Godfrey, his two role models, it makes sense that Miquella would have him as a lord to enforce his age and it makes sense to fight him for the spot of lord cause he needed his time in the spotlight, after all, he aspired to be lord and it got cut short by Malenia.


Now, the lore around Malenia and Miquella and Radhan and whatever the fucking vow is is complete horseshit and unsatisfying yes, but Radahn as a concept is not bad, I think the execution was bad, but the concept was great.

Funny how both glintstone sorcerers and Erdtree folk are death cults. Roots and rocks. It’s all the same. Repurposing life and death.

>>714521135
Two Bugs is cooler than something like Metyr and Scadu Avatar because the fight is more unique both solo and in multiplayer as there’s actual aggro management involved. Maris is more fun than Elden Beast but that’s a base game boss, I’d still say it’s better than Metyr because killing the adds actually has an effect on the boss and you’re rewarded for destroying the nuke and being aggressive for the sleep move.
Besides Caligo which was kind of a whatever fight and Libra which was great, all of Nightreign’s fights were A tier. Gaius and Romina are B tier. Radahn, Putrescent are C tier, and Metyr is D tier. And then the new non-remembrances are either B or D, none are C.

>>714521464
no, that would be "I enjoyed Promised Consort Radahn"

>>714498096 (OP)
Why can't people express opinions about Elden Ring that aren't hyperbolic to the extreme
It's either that it's the peerless apotheosis of the gaming medium, or Elden Shart Dogshit Worst Game of All Time
It just makes any attempt at conducting normal critical discussion about the game virtually worthless because it's impossible to distinguish discord trannies and mindless fromdrones

Personally, I couldn't care less about Radahn's incarnation in this instance. All of his glories as the Starscourge are still intact. The guy was a bloodthirsty warmongerer who thrived in battle and was clearly piqued by Miquella's ambition.
By the juncture you face his reincarnated form, regardless of his vow, he's clearly just one of Miquella's brainwashed, mutated sycophants. From won't divulge why the ascendancy ritual requires a consort anchor cause it's meant to be eerie mythic bullshit, but the role of Elden Lord seems to require a masculine being of great might, bellicosity, and physicality, and Radahn's really the incontestable best candidate in the Lands Between.
Also, anyone who sincerely believes Miquella's own character was tarnished for being a cold-hearted manipulator is naive as hell. Any character with the ability to compel and warp people's hearts in fiction always turns out to be a twisted psycho with ruthless utilitarian goals.
For me, it's Mohg who received the greatest character assassination. I genuinely liked him more believing he was just this comically demented and diabolically evil edgelord with a silly raspy voice who stole Miquella for his grand blood dynasty because he was utterly insane. Knowing now that he was actually just a rational, level-headed, white-collar grotesquely disfigured horn demon is lame.

>>714498096 (OP)

What makes you think he isn't being enslaved? That is supposed to be what makes Miquella terrifying, you literally cannot say no to him.

>>714521587
Now you understand golden order fundamentalism. Radagon learned both and realized they were just the same.

>>714521538
he abandons parts of his flesh and other aspects of himself in multiple places, hence the multiple miq. runes, it doesnt need to happen only once, not an error you just dont like it

i want to cum inside miquella

>>714521556
No, it’s earlier, the One Great is the equivalent of the Big Bang. One Great Big Bang. It fractured itself and became various things. The Greater Will is that cosmic mind, based on the Nous. Life existed before the Elden Ring, which may act as an evolutionary guide, but is not the sole way for life to evolve. The Elden Beast is like Lavos from Chrono Trigger in that it hijacked a planet’s natural course of life and re-coursed it for its own purposes—like for sustenance. Experience.

>>714521390
well, that would fit with the night just being an abstract force that turns powerful being across time and space into nightlords or servants of night or whatever, yeah it's retarded marvel tier shit but the excuse is there and the game is all about beating the night and undoing the time paradox so I'll accept it though I think it could have been better executed to seem less like a cashgrab cause let's be honest the optics of Nightreign were terrible when it first got announced and even know it still seems kinda off to me even if I like it.

>>714521583
>admired and surpassed Radagon and Godfrey,
>Godfrey
NEVER EVER. Godfrey fought actual gods. Subjugated them and exercised them from this reality. He definitively fought something rot related and beat it too. Oh and Godfrey is actually undefeated.

>>714521649
Most of this still comes down to Nightreign having better base gameplay, which is true. So I get where you're coming from but I can't really agree, Metyr adds so much to the setting that lmao 2bugs don't and she would be a much better received boss were she in a game with Nightreign's mechanics.

>>714521658
PCR is the ultimate midwit filter

A lot of interesting discussion in here, BUT

>>714521587
Heresy is not native to the world.
All things can be conjoined.

>>714521660
Personally, eny time I talk about Elden Ring I talk about it critically but I still think it's amazing, I just think it makes more sense for me to talk about what I found lacking or not to my taste because it's more interesting to me, everyone has already glazed the game a hundred times over, so I like to say "yeah but..." even if I still love the game.


However obviously Elden Shills and Shazamtroons are very annoying indeed.

>>714521894
I agree, just in the opposite (and correct) sense.

Everything in the DLC felt like a retcon. But at the same time I didn't betray his character, it's just that people are so in love with him. Of all the bosses he seems the least evil and From's painting him as brave and even fighting him doesn't make him seem so bad. Despite him being described as a mindless zombie

>>714521937
>just burn everything away, goy!
fuck off (((merchant)))

>>714521937
When you know that the Frenzy Flame is just a seething part of the Greater Will it stops being interesting or scary.

>>714521791
Go fight Godfrey and then Radahn right now bro.

I ain't disrespecting Godfrey but c'mon Radahn had the determination and his rune to help him ad I'm sorry he just surpassed him it is what it is, I respect Shaq but Lebron is still the goat it is what it is.

>>714521983
Redmane BAD

>>714521968
Elden Ring is full of missed opportunities and I use it as proof that Miyazaki rushes everything and is the polar opposite of George. He should have spent another year on Elden Ring but he didn’t for some reason. He always rushes the ending.

Magic in general was under done. There should have been many more sorceries. There should have been a constellation based conspectus as a contemporary to the Carian phalanx sorceries, and there should have been more to the phases of the moons. Crescent moon sorceries, etc.

>>714522139
The truth is Radhan was just too weak for Bear Communion.

>>714522070
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DIVIDE AND CREATE FORM, YOU MUST REMAIN ABSOLUTE AND ONE
>AHHHHHHHHHHH IM GOING INSANE FIREMAN SAVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>714521784
Duskbloods is going to mog it so hard for the like 3 people that can afford to play it.

>>714522038
I really don’t think Miyazaki has any lore integrity. He just wings everything.

I remember thinking Marika betrayed the Eternal/Nox to become a god, and I was partially correct in that she betrayed the Hornsent to become a god.

How often do you think Miyazaki changes his mind?

>>714521791
Dude Radahn conquered the stars themselves. And was able to maintain that even after he went crazy.

>>714521716
He abandons his flesh in Mohgwyn Palace, all of it. This is how you get to the Land of Shadow. Then he abandons his flesh again in pieces around the Land of Shadow. Miquella abandons all of his flesh twice.

>>714522238
The crescent is a holy symbol of the golden order. If such magic existed the fundamentalists would blow up the moon and anyone that ever tried to cast it.

>>714521352
>An artificial moon below ground amid the subterranean nebulae was surely a giant missed opportunity
That's literally what they are
>but the Eternal cities weren’t always underground, and they worshiped the moons before they were buried.
What's your source on this? It's wrong.
It's literally seen that all the dead dwellers are in the underground, as bodies in the ground praying to a skeleton giant. The skeleton giants of the Eternal Citiesare similar to the Grandmother of the Shaman Village or Miquella's old body in the cocoon, an elected Saint that became a gateway for spirits, a medium to create the Moon.

The reason the Moons are not underground is that Ranni and Rennala both "have them" in the same exact way you can have a Great Rune or the Elden Ring, and in the same way they appear in the sky.

>>714521231
Every single Elden Ring lore hater is a midwit with low IQ. Ths is the actual first game that is truly understood by few very intellectually gifted individuals, and the remaining 90% of them either hates this or makes half-assed meme and toddler tier lore theories (or takes them from Vaati, who is equally ignorant)

Final DLC boss should have been a warrior jar that ate fucking everything in the world, even Marika's crusty old porcelain ass

>>714522352
He didn’t actually halt the stars. Day and night still progress and fallingstar beasts are still around. “THE STARS HAVE ALIGNED”. What Radahn did was flex to the space bugs his territory and made his family immortal.

I hate DLC with passion and don't even care about ER lore deep enough compared to other from games. Such shame.

>>714522378
>He abandons his flesh in Mohgwyn Palace, all of it.
This is an assumption and never stated anywhere.

>>714522386
No, nothing about that says the moon was underground. You SEE the dark moon in Ranni’s ending.

>What's your source on this? It's wrong.
It’s quite literally said. In game. I’m not continuing this conversation.

>I aggressively refused to understand anything and instead cling to a half-assed fanfiction made up in my head, and when new information came out that clarified things, I have no choice but to throw a tantrum instead of admit I'm wrong.
It's bad writing because it expects me to read.

>>714522352
And Godfrey conquered the a god that was the very concept of fire and made it a slave to the order. Concepts and Gods>shitty rocks

>>714522386
>Every single Elden Ring lore hater is a midwit with low IQ
You are too low IQ to even understand what a midwit is.

>>714522352
Radahn "conquering the Stars" just affected his and the Carians fates. In particular, he made it so that unlike other Demigods, Radahn had his own death restored.
It's badass that he wants to fight and die like a hero and had himself remove the literal respawn cheat Demigods have, but itt's not like he literally beats the shit out of the Stars or any space invaders shit

>>714522593
your a retard noob! die now!!!

>>714521937
>Midra theme has a part where the Merchant's violin theme plays quietly and off-key

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48cBHDzllmY#t=3m43s

>>714522593
Truth Nuke

>>714522516
>This is an assumption and never stated anywhere.
It is stated. Gideon explicitly says the body in Mohgwyn Palace is Miquella.

Imagine Radahn raping Miquella lol

>>714521213
Yeah
Discounting that charge, he's on the upper end of the dlc fights
Granted, that's hardly high praise, but, really, Gaius isn't bad.

>>714522378
He abandons aspects of himself in land of shadow, including st. tarina, it never says anywhere that all his flesh is abandoned in the land of shadow
>>714522516
this is another explanation, we only see an arm in the cacoon, its not clear how much is in there, left to interpretation

either way, not an error, you just dont like it because its vague

>>714522386
>The skeleton giants of the Eternal Citiesare similar to the Grandmother of the Shaman Village or Miquella's old body in the cocoon, an elected Saint that became a gateway for spirits, a medium to create the Moon.

No. You’re making shit up. What those giant women were, were albinaurics, like Philia, a towering sleeping albinauric who is said to rebirth their race.

The irony is that when the Nox got buried they resorted to alchemical means to live, since life works differently away from the Ring, and this included making giant maternal figures to birth their people the way Marika birthed hers, through the roots.

If you can’t see the overwhelming similarities between Philia and the sleeping giants, you’re not playing the game correctly.

Sellians once bled silver before they returned to the surface, and surface life normalcy. They no longer needed a giant maternal birther, and this is why their giant throne is empty.

>>714522759
It is high praise, the DLC has some of the best fights in the game. Gaius isn't one of them though.

>>714522729
>Implying Radahn x Miquela isn't Josou Seme

who the fuck is gideon?

>>714522785
>it never says anywhere that all his flesh is abandoned in the land of shadow
He explicitly abandons body parts in the Land of Shadow that you can see sticking out of the cocoon in Mohgwyn's Palace. Miquella abandons his flesh twice.

>>714522386
>The reason the Moons are not underground is that Ranni and Rennala both "have them" in the same exact way you can have a Great Rune or the Elden Ring, and in the same way they appear in the sky.
Nah. They’re selectively seen. You see yours when you find Ranni’s moon. It’s a personal event. But they’re still orbiting.

>>714522378
>>714522723
There's an example of this exact thing in Elden Ring already.

>>714522723
"the body" != "the whole body" in the conversation he's just telling you where 'miquella' is, its left open, its not an error, you're just autistic and upset about it not being specific

ER has the best lore of these games. One interesting thing is how they try to create the lore around the gameplay. Since the game is “open world” they made most of the bosses optional and you can take different approaches to them. With just a few key figures. I watched a video that calls out the aimlessness of Fingers and Erdtree. And it's clear that most of the game's bosses are waging pointless battles, with only a few bosses having any kind of plan in mind. Of course, these compromises are there to justify From Evargol's (boss replay), and the reuse of enemies throughout the game. There are other series of lore decisions that take gameplay into account.

>>714522691
I don't get why From never restored the Kale questline
It's practically finished and it's genuinely well voice acted
I get that they likely wanted the Frenzy Flame proscription to be hidden and cloistered away from players who weren't willing to thoroughly explore, but it's something they could have added back later
I don't think it conflicts with much if anything

>>714499730
Miquella thinks that the homunculus Mohg-Radahn he can create will be close enough to Radahn's full strength and skill as the Starscourge that the Tarnished will be defeated. Radahn's peak was just before sealing the stars, since after that he had to keep the stars sealed, and even then be defeated Malenia (albeit in a pyrrhic way due to the mega Scarlet Aeonia). Radahn at his best can't be controlled by Miquella, but Miquella hopes to get close enough to Radahn's best that all other foes in the Lands Between couldn't win anyway.

>>714517634
No one gives a shit about Japanese. They were living in mudhuts and eating people while Greeks were the pinnacle of civilization

>>714522436
I hate that we never fight the Greatjar. Just how powerful is it?

>>714520957
>if he died how the fuck did the night take hold of him?
IIRC, he pulled an Iguazu and got so mad at his killer that hus sheer rage made the Night go "I like the cut of your gib" and grant him enough powers to tear the Lands Between a new asshole, brainwash Godrick and Morgott, and bring entities from other worlds to join his ranks, including sole of the Night Lords and the Dark Souls bosses.

I don't think the Empyrean and Consort necessarily mean you have sex with the God/Goddess as the Lord Consort.
I mean you can't exactly fuck a statue Marika but you are essentially Lord Consort to her in some of the endings.

>>714522916
radahn's body exists in both places, both in caelid when you fight him and in the land of shadow as well, is this an "error"?
if so, i dont think these games are for you

>>714522572
>No, nothing about that says the moon was underground
yes it does
>A talisman engraved with the legend of a queen.
>Raises intelligence.

>The young astrologer gazed at the night sky as she walked. She had always chased the stars every step of her journey. >Then she met the full moon — and, in time, the astrologer became a queen.

The Night sky is the sky of Nokstella
Rennala reached Nokstella and there found the Full Moon
Similarly under the crypt throne of Nokron there's a talisman of the Black Moon, showing the connection the thrones have.
And again each throne is surrounded by ciorpses in the same state as the piles forming the Gate of Divinity.
It's very clear
>>714522812
>No. You’re making shit up. What those giant women were, were albinaurics
And the albinaurics are individuals artificially created by the Eternal Cities, which is exactly why the Moon was created after their banishment and why they created towering giants that then became skeletons

>>714522386
The moons were never underground. The moon (and sun) is incredibly important to astronomy and it wouldn’t not be in the sky.

>>714522974
Margit won

>>714523090
The DLC goes out of its way to explain that Radahn's body is a repurposed Mohg body, though.

>>714521660
I kinda like that the most evil looking guy in the Lands Between actually is just a completely normal guy, being emotionally abused by divine beings, and just wants to not be treated like shit, something he never really gets.

>>714515004
They specify that Godwyn's soul was killed/destroyed. The DLC, to our knowledge, was always about the hornsent territory, not a naturally different dimension.

>>714522949
The fingers primary concern is to control things. I don't think they necessarily have a goal in mind as long as they're the top dogs with their hands in every cookie jar.
I still think that's a big reason why Marika broke the ring. She's being worn like one on the hands of the Fingers.

>>714519868
I think his role in the family tree is really interesting, as a distant descendent of Marika who tries to keep up with his great aunts and uncles in their war. Having Godrick around kind of sells just how old these characters are, if there's so many generations between him and Marika.

>>714521660
Rykard already fits the cartoonish villain niche, Mohg always had more nuance to him.

>>714523093
That’s not evidence. You’re twisting what is there. The text even says Rennala looked to the night sky. That’s not the underground.

Raya Lucaria actually has the same architecture as the Eternal, or very similar architecture, and cuckoo imagery is seen on the moon of Nokstella. The academy is the one area of central Liurnia that isn’t sinking.

They were once the same culture. The cities got buried while the academy had remained above. Why do you think all of Liurnia is covered in past gravitationally wracked geography?

The Eternal was once above ground in Liurnia and it spread all the way to Caelid.

>>714522812
NOTHING here contradicts the fact that the thrones served to create the Moon
In fact it adds credibility to it
>>714515004
nice headcanon

>>714523090
NTA, but you necessarily have to kill Radahn to access the DLC. His soul is put in someone else's body for the DLC fight. His original body is never in two places at once

>>714522974
>Miquella thinks that the homunculus Mohg-Radahn he can create will be close enough to Radahn's full strength and skill as the Starscourge that the Tarnished will be defeated
Then why does he entreat the Tarnished to join him?

>>714523370
>In fact it adds credibility to it
No it doesn’t. Nothing there suggests it.

>>714498096 (OP)
you realize that if youre strong enough, everyone is relatively a female to you

>>714523186
okay so what about mohg's body in the overworld that we fight and defeat, its not just left there? its "brought in", by who or what? where did it come from? what methods did they use to transport it, was it miquella, why not use his magic elsewhere if he can just transport things between worlds? why not stop us from killing malenia during our fight? if it wasn't, what entities did, how did they pay for the workers to haul him all the way to the top of the spiral near the divine gate? what compensation were they given, was it minimum wage? are they unionized?

your autistic retardation serves no purpose, you may as well ask about the rune tax policy during the 2nd carnian war

>>714501676
The spirit could know Mohg's name because his followers proclaimed it while attacking Elphael. Alternatively, that person was once a prisoner in Leyndell's sewers and thus would have known Mohg, then later managed to escape to Elphael. As for knowing that Mohg is an Omen who kidnapped Miquella and went to the Consecrated Snowfield, that would just require seeing Mohg, seeing him carrying Miquella, and seeing the direction he fled in.

>DLC all about Miquella
>not a single mention of Malenia, even offhandedly.
Between that and the Godwyn shit, I get the feeling something major was changed.

>>714523364
>That’s not evidence. You’re twisting what is there. The text even says Rennala looked to the night sky. That’s not the underground.
The Night Sky is the way the game calls the sky of Nokron.
The place where you find the talisman of te Black Moon is right there in Nokstella so the devs are clearly specifically saying this
Both the Moons were created in the underground through the crypt-thrones because it's the same process of ascension Miquella does to become a spirit.
Next time check your sources better

>>714523093
She met the moon either at the mountaintops or the moonlit altar, not underground.

I stand by the fact that if it at least wasn't literally just 'Radahn 2 ft. some spikes and new moveset with callbacks' it would've been salvageable, make him some horrible half-omen monstrosity sealed up in full body armor or something with the horns peaking out to show how Miquella's "love and order" is all a facade

>>714523093
>And again each throne is surrounded by ciorpses in the same state as the piles forming the Gate of Divinity.
It's very clear
Those are mud men. Without their mother they turn to mud, not mercury. The silver tears you find in the cities are all falling apart.

>>714502252
Miquella is already in the gate before Radahn's soul is placed in Mohg's body. Miquella announces that the soul will be put into Mohg's body during the introductory cutscene.

>>714522956
The current way to find it is simpler that Kale's cut quest which involved the seeking birds.
>>714522929
This is just a walking validation of all hornsent believes. Quite literally one of the spirit animals which is spoken in the divine warrior invocations.

>>714523634
It has already been established countless times in this thread why Godwyn was never going to be part of the DLC.
And Malenia is mentioned by Moore and in PCR's armor set.

>>714523460
I have standards in storytelling, and Miyazaki likes to use vagueness to skirt around basic things that make for functional storytelling a lot, like characterization and basic continuity. When you are using Miquella's abandoned flesh to get into the DLC, and less than five minutes later you encounter NPCs who tell you that your objective in the DLC is to track down Miquella's abandoned flesh, that is not just bad storytelling, it's outright retarded.

>>714520982
I'll take fanservice that's connected to three of the playable characters over butchered fanservice that makes characters look worse than they did in the base game.

>>714523093
>The Night sky is the sky of Nokstella
fucking lol
No anon the night sky is the sky when it's night. You know, the same sky you can see in the game and see the moons there? Fucking lmao, this is seriously the most retarded shit I've seen. You LITERALLY see the moons in the game, in the actual sky and NOT in the underground cities which you can also go to.

>>714523634
what pisses me off is the amber starlight shard, one of the few things to show both gold+blue, stars and gold, is under the statue of malenia+miquella in a hidden area only shown on a withered map, and they did absolutely fuck all with that in favor of niggerfaggot heckin chungusarino horserider radahn

miquella was not an interesting character and should not have been the basis for the dlc

>>714523642
nta but Renalla uses the full moon and Ranni the dark moon. Both unrelated to the black artificial moon of the Nox.

>>714523642
Ah, I see you’re just spontaneously generating fan fiction to kickstart discussion. Nice.

>>714523805
This is the same game where you fight Margit's magical hologram body that bleeds, and then you fight him again, and then again. Like this is the wrong game for you to autism over.

>>714522891
Tarnished Batman, in a setting where the Justice League isn't being handicapped for his benefit.
He's been in the game a long time, and is trying to be the most informed person in the room, but is woefully out of his depth. He's trying to be a player of the game, when the board is several levels above him, and he doesn't meet the basic criteria to even be a player.
He contrasts well against Goldmask and the player; both Goldmask and the player simply do, while Gideon endlessly prepares for something he never will. If anything at all, Gideon is a champion of the status quo, because anything really changing means he has to start over.

>>714522593
he's mad

Why does the Carian manor look older than the academy or the eternal cities? Are Carians older than the Nox?

>>714523645
I don't care about your post-debunk cope/rationalization. The game is very specific and the 4 belfires literally guide Carian Royals to the Eternal Cities, ending in specifically placed gateways.
>>714523634
Because you are a braindead cumbrained poster

>>714523805
I think you may be incapable of enjoying fantasy.

>>714523905
Miquella could have been an interesting character, and there was lots of interest in what he was up to before the DLC dropped. The failure is Miyazaki's, he is not competent at storytelling.

>>714523802
WE KNOW YOU COLOSSAL FAGGOT HOLY FUCK
PEOPLE WHO DONT LIKE IT DIDN'T "MISUNDERSTAND" OR "NOT GET" THE LORE
WE GET IT
WE ALL GET IT
ITS CLEAR AS DAY

ITS JUST A DOGSHIT DECISION
ITS YOUR IP
YOU CAN CRAFT IT AS YOU WANT
WHY PICK THE SHIT OPTION?

Ranni sucks and only cucks choose her ending

>>714498096 (OP)
>character assassination
This requires a character to assassinate which is not the case.
Elden Ring bosses mutter 1 line when engaging, 1 line when killing the player and 1 line when dying. That's it.

>>714523805
literally
>but what was the tax policy!
the post

>>714523859
PCR isn't fanservice at all, Godwyn would have been fanservice
>>714524065
Look at the absolute derangement exhibited her because the dead body with an ending wasn't an epic boss.

>>714523906
Every single Moon is "artificial".
Each Eternal City generated one by sacrificing the inhabitats

>>714523979
It's always morally correct to be angry at idiots.
Like this fag here.
>>714524065
Who wants the writing to be worse for no reason other than to tickle his nuts.
He just wants to see Godwyn and doesn't care about anything else.

>>714523906
There was no artificial moon. Both dark and black are synonyms and both dark and black moons are described as cold and leaden. Ranni is the inheritor.

>>714524003
Carians are moon worshipers who stayed above ground while the others got buried. The ‘old dynasty’ were likely related to the Carians, maybe even the Carians themselves. They go all the way back to the ancient astrologers on the mountains.

>>714524014
>The game is very specific and the 4 belfires literally guide Carian Royals to the Eternal Cities,
The belfires are build in the style of golden order architecture. They even lead to Farum Azula which is golden order aligned.

>>714524054
Miquella is far more compelling to me now. I never cared about him pre-DLC.

>>714524213
>They even lead to Farum Azula which is golden order aligned.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH

>>714524164
Nothing in the lore points to that.

>>714523905
Miquella is an interesting character, it's just that From's writers are incompetent and can't think of a way to use a character that doesn't involve using item descriptions to tell a story or killing them off.

>>714523936
>>714523805
See the thing about that is that there will be loretards who will defend how the game's lore is perfect and flawless and there ar eno holes in the story.
I can appreciate the good parts of Elden Ring's lore and story, I can appreciate the art direction, the music, the gameplay, but we also have to be honest with ourselves, there's also retarded shit that makes no sense or is unsatisfying or is obviously the way it is because Elden Ring is a game so they had to design a game around it, I'm sure Miyazaki-san put a lot of effort in his lore but it's VERY obvious that sometimes he cuts things or changes things around or just fucking wings it cause it's a game so we need a mcguffin to teleport us to the lands of shadow.

>>714524234
Same. I like that he's a direct parallel and possible repeat of Marika's failures, and has a history displaying what kind of person he is. Earnest and well-meaning, but ultimately ineffectual.

>>714523936
I agree that the game's storytelling and worldbuilding is lazy and slapped together without much thought, but if they're going to hide this shit behind vague item descriptions I think basic coherence is the least to ask for in return.

>>714524050
I think Miyazaki is not fit to write fantasy, plenty of authors who write fantasy do not make humiliating mistakes like this.

>>714524213
epic bait

>>714518313
Ymir is a retard.
Stop thinking that he knows what he's talking about.

The four belfries contains an image of that old guy Moses underground. The original eternal cities.

>>714524359
It's not a mistake, you're just dumb.

>>714524280
One lead to the place Maliketh lives.
One leads to a golden order stronghold - Stormveil
One lead to a Crucible knight which is also a servant of golden order.
If they wanted to guide the Carians it would only lead to their death.

>>714523905
Do you even know what amber stalight shard is?

Dogshit ending to an otherwise great DLC and retards pretend to be smart by saying "you didnt get it" when everyone does, its just bad

No one i spoke to enjoyed fighting Radahn again and left disappointed

Some people didn't buy nightreign because of this decision, it was objectively, both thematically and monetarily, the wrong call.

>>714523061
All of those porn animations with Marika and the Tarnished? 100% canon.

>>714524429
“Yeah. Deep space isn’t important. He’s just coping. He can’t stand that the moon is feminine and matters more than science”.

>>714524478
Didn't ask

>>714518420
She's just his mindless weapon, then.

>>714524556
too bad, you read it anyway, get fucked like your tranny

>>714524313
>Nothing in the lore points to that.
Excepot everything that actualy does, which I listed and to which you couldn't form a compelling counterargument, losing the discussion and showcase how you don't know Farum Azula lore
>>714524452
Correct, The Dynast, of the Ancient Dynasties from which the Eternal Cities descend

>>714518596
People don't die when they're killed.

>>714518313
>It’s insufferable logic. Ymir’s crown even says “the moon is but the closest body in space, nothing more”, and yet his spells are still quite pathetic.
Almost like he's dismissing the closest, obvious truths to look at something more vague so he can make shit up about it and tell everyone else they're wrong for disagreeing with his theories.

>>714524625
Yeah nope.

>>714524152
>"Prime Radahn" isn't fanservice at all

>>714520982
>actual fanservice boss
I think Heolster is barebones and literally just 'coolguy the captain' for the sake of a final boss but come the fuck on if you don't think nu-Radahn isn't that, they literally have the fucker doing base game cinematic poses and whipping out shit like Pontiff combo mid-fight, he is literally fanservice for the same game he shows up in somehow

>>714524572
No, she is Isis, and a successor of Miranda, which is Miyazaki's ripoff of Flora
>>714524461
Stop embarassing yourself

>>714524458
>It's not a mistake, you're just dumb.
What's lore drop I missed that explains the very obvious continuity error that a five year old could spot?

>>714524685
Almost like it’s horrible writing. See >>714524554

Also, to claim the moon is more magical than deep space is highly disingenuous. There is NOTHING more occult or more alien than the deep black abyss that is space. Nothing more horrific, or grand. It is THE biggest black box of all. That’s magic. Confronting the unknown. Truest mystery.

There’s nothing truly mysterious about the moon.

Miquella is not gay, but if he was he tops.

>>714524804
Magic, dipshit. Same reason why there are tons of fleshy beings in the land of the dead and not just spirits. Not all of those things got transported through Miquella's body like the player.

>>714524804
>this is whats wrong
>told 4 different times it isnt an error
>yeah im just gonna ignore those posts and say it is
okay, no point (you)ing you anymore

>>714518313
It's rather obvious. Ymir reveals the truth to you and sends you to see it first hand in the ruins. Comet Azure is just dropped into your lap with no explanation. It's simple luddo narrative. Try to keep up.

>>714524701
>>714524746
It's literally not "Prime Radahn". The game tells us its a younger Radahn before he became the Starscourge. You fell for memes and refuse to actually examine the game.

>>714523728
Agree
They really, really needed to play up just how fucked Radahn's existence was at this point. All the weird shit stacked on top of his basic template needed to feature, not just be fucking Vengarl with a twink cape.

Fukkin, just spitballing ideas here.
He needs to be sprouting horns throughout the fight, that he either cuts off with attacks, or rips off and throws at you. He needs to be sprouting wings he treats similarly, his spells need to be unstable mixtures of gravity, light, rot, and bloodflame that shift in midair. It needs to be clear that this vessel is being ripped apart by all the different things crammed into this thing. Fuck, this even ends up being a thematic bookend if you do it this way. You get the forced order between these different things manifesting in a crucible like, roiling, mutating form. His blood needs to drip fire, and sprout horned crosses where it falls, the feathers from those wings need to shift into scale, then rot into slime as they hit the ground.

>>714519047
The chains are only over the parts of him that have horns.
It is a sign of him controlling and restraining Mohg's body and Omen traits.

>>714524854
>It's horrible writing because I think this one guy should be able to channel vague space magic better than actual Gods and Goddesses descended from Marika and Renalla.
ok.

>>714524338
People need to accept this, and it's not just with Fromsoftware, writing story and lore or anything for a video game is always very difficult because it has to try to make sense with the gameplay, and having a coherent interesting story with no holes in a game is just hard, video game storytelling is very hard to pull off competently, much harder than movies or books, games are more inmersive and interesting on many fronts sure, but a game's story will often fall victim to contrivances or plot holes or just retarded shit as an excuse for it to be a game and for things to happen a certain way in the game, you can't ever plan ahead fully, sometimes shit happens, sometimes you have to change around the story cause we need to cut this area and we don't have time tod evelop this other thing so we have to make do or yada yada yada, and sometimes that's gonna make the writing in a game not mesh well, or feel retarded, or contradictory, or unfinished, and that's just how it is.

That's not to say we can't expect better and criticise the issues we see, don't be a fucking friomdrone, but we need to understand that making story and worldbuilding in a game has it's unique challenges too and it's very hard for everything to be perfect so it's important to have realistic standards, and in that front, Fromsoft lore is not as deep and well planned and flawless as many people may say, but it's also not an incoherent mess with made up shit like many other may say

>>714519341
Grace is Marika's thing, not the Two Fingers'.

>>714498096 (OP)
shit boss

>>714523936
>Margit's magical hologram body that bleeds
There's no magic bleeding hologram.
Omens with horns are resonant with wraiths and can summon new bodies of themselves. There's a boss that literally does this. Mohg is used as vessel exactly because he is an Omen
Elden Ring is a literal IQ filter though so it's normal that idiots like you are too stupid to understand it

>>714524926
Again, this game is riddled with offensive missed opportunities. Miyazaki should have spent another year on the game. The BASE game. Although the DLC also could have used some extra time.

Again. He is the OPPOSITE of George.

>>714524916
Why do you think I put it in quotes, anon? You're still just fighting a stronger version of Radahn, but now with eye cancer beams.

>>714524429
>Ymir is a retard.
>Discovers the truth not even Marika knows
Ymir must have had a field day when he discovered Marika is going against a god that left her to rule as she please before she even became a god.

>>714523728
Miquella's love and order isn't a facade though, he truly does want people to be happy, t's just that his plan to do it is to brainwash the world into being happy with magic and not through genuine means.

>>714524886
>Magic, dipshit.
Griffith being offered a chance to regain his vitality by sacrificing his followers is magic. Miquella just somehow having endless reserves of body parts to shed and nobody remarking on his ability to abandon the same body parts over and over again is bad writing. Fantasy does not excuse authors from adhering to basic standards of storytelling.

>>714524894
I accept your concession.

>>714525016
Rennala isn’t a god/demigod. Sorcerers are proof that you don’t need to be a god to have godlike powers. You can’t even kill or hurt Azur or Lusat. They just ignore you. In the pre-release version they also blasted you back as a “fuck off”.

The Greatjar of Caelid also just ignores you. It’s above you.

>>714525034
>Grace is Marika's thing
No, Grace existed since time immemorial.
It used to be the "first grace", aka grace of light
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Helphen's+Steeple
Then Marika created the grace of Gold.
IQ filter Elden Ring strikes again

>>714524338
Nobody thinks the game's lore is perfect and flawless but you have shit arguments that are all based on misinformation or you weren't paying attention and now instead of learning from your mistakes in an environment that will do ZERO damage to your pride (it's an anonymous imageboard) you're doubling down and throwing a tantrum.

>>714525083
Because its literally not what people meant by "Prime Radahn", its a disingenuous argument. Did you get mad at the two Isshin fights in Sekiro?

>>714525098
Marika's rebellion has nothing to do with the presence or lack thereof of the Greater Will, because she's bound by the Golden Order even without it being around.
The Elden Beast still chains her in place even if its Daddy left a million years ago.

>>714525117
Miquella is misguided evil. He’s tragic in that he’s committing atrocities because he just doesn’t know any better. All of his projects end unfinished like an unhatched chrysalis. He even tortures himself for the sake of global happiness.

He’s not consciously evil. He’s just an eternal child.

>>714525034
Grace is literally the same as the written language of the two fingers. You have two weapons that are only composed of it.

>>714525039
why would you post something so correct

I think Heolstor is cooler than PCR because he's partially a guy sacrificing himself to keep his sister alive forever.

>>714525080
No, you are just too stupid to understand the story, and that's ok, it's not meant to be understood by everyone
>>714525158
>Griffith being offered a chance to regain his vitality by sacrificing his followers is magic.
Which Miquella does in Aeonia
>Miquella just somehow having endless reserves of body parts to shed and nobody remarking on his ability to abandon the same body parts over and over again is bad writing.
This doesn't happen

>>714525187
I am not throwing a tantrum and I have also not seen any convincing arguments that have made me feel better about the things I find lacking about the game's storytelling and worldbuilding.

>>714525280
>>714525039
Still better than Malenia

>>714525158
>Miquella just somehow having endless reserves of body parts to shed and nobody remarking on his ability to abandon the same body parts over and over again is bad writing
No you just don't like it. God forbid a God be able to regrow themselves in a land where death is literally removed from the source code of their world lol

>>714525158
>I accept your concession.
what a strange thing to post when you have no argument

Loreschizo was right. People who hate Elden Ring story consistently get it wrong nd are dumb as bricks when it comes to understanding the most basic shit

>>714525176
There’s themes of numerous types of gold. Yellow gold, white gold, red gold, etc.

>>714525312
>I have also not seen any convincing arguments
You never will because you're not capable of considering them. All the shit you've said has been explained to you countless times. You bring up the exact same points every single thread. I'm not even certain you're a real person anymore. A bot maybe? A troll just keeping lore threads going and you don't actually believe what you say? I don't know how to deal with you.

>>714525039
.... i kneel....

>>714525309
>This doesn't happen
What item description or character comments on Miquella abandoning his flesh multiple times?

>>714523936
>Margit's magical hologram body that bleeds
Nigga what hologram
Omens have many souls in the same body, they literally vomit souls and there's an ending where people can reproduce again because their souls are Omen

>>714525391
That's the entire reason videogame stories are so shit.
They need to be able to be decipherable to people who have never opened a book.
People can't just say "I don't know, maybe I missed something." They have to say, "I don't know, therefore it's the game's fault, it's shit writing."

>>714525391
Yeah but the lore schizo is intentionally a schizo though. He repeats wrong lore (seriously his theories change every time in every thread, they are always different and never the same) just to start discussion because interest in the game is dying.

>>714525256
Sword Saint Isshin wasn't the final boss of the nonexistent Sekiro DLC, you retard. When people say "Prime Radahn", they mean "I want to fight Radahn when he wasn't a rot infested zombie". Even if phase 1 PCR isn't technically Radahn at his peak, it's STILL just a copy of Radahn before he got infected.
Furthermore, you don't even fight both Isshins in the same route. The entire point of Genichiro's character is that he's clinging to Ashina's past glory and refuses to let that day, which is represented with the summoning of SSI. PCR is just Miquella's never before seen incestuous love for his brother forcing itself into becoming the final obstacle for the Tarnished.

>story
>it's just lore
It makes me so mad that Fromsoft can make actual stories like Sekiro and Armored Core but Souls is still the mute murderhobo bossfight hallway.

>>714525529
Hilarious and based if true. I speak wrong opinions just to get the correct opinions reinforced by others arguing against me all the time on /pol/.

>>714525039
>elden bros...

>>714525467
Miquella abandons parts of his flesh in 3 crosses. Is this the only cope you could come up with after you have been laughed at for claiming Miquella had a double body? Why have you stopped posting D like the avatarfag retard you are?
>>714525427
There's no different types of Gold
There's light and then gold
the "red" gold is tarnished gold, if something has reddish rusty gold then that used to be gold. All the Crucible armors are ruined and tarnished.

>>714525630
The story of Elden Ring is that you're an ambitious murderhobo that the local goddess likes, so she sends you to murder her useless kids.

>>714525630
Souls games have the word Soul in them, so I think it's apt the intent is to display a dying or dead world where the spirit of it is still drifting vaguely about. Its history is over, the player is just watching the ghost seek redemption of some kind.

>>714525627
>, it's STILL just a copy of Radahn before he got infected.
Its not Starscourge Radahn, get that through your thick skull. No bow, no horse, less gravity magic. Its Radahn as a character doing something entirely different in a completely different context.

>>714525717
Nah red gold IS the crucible. Yellow gold is what the Crucible became. The Erdtree was originally the Crucible.

>>714525526
There's a staggering lack of literacy and ability to contextualize info.
I blame it on phones and feeds/reels of completely unrelated pointless info scrolling through people brains

>>714525275
The way Miquella's ideas work arte very interesting, and indeed I do think his age of compassion isn't something I'd look forward to, but I do think it would bbring happiness, at least, for everyone but him, my thought about it are here >>714515006


I legit think many people in the real world who've suffered a lot and struggled through terrible circumstance may actually agree with Miquella's plans for the future, after all, if you see "genuine happiness" as unattainable, then... well, at least "drugged" happiness will make you feel good and forget in the end, no? People with a chance in the first place are the ones with the privilege to have enough will to disagree with this, I wouldn't blame an albinauric being tortured to death in Volcano manor for yearning for Miquella's age even if it doesn't sit well with me when I think about it as if it was real. Though if you let go off your ego for a while, if you see the temptation to stop thinking and struggling for a second... I do kinda see what's so alluring in it, after all, what's wrong with guaranteed eternal peace and happiness?

If you are a slave but you could choose to one day just... be happy as if you were living your wildest fantasies and dreams every day of your life (even though the past you would find your fate to be horrible) then... what's that matter now? After all, the new you is happy, what's the use in worrying and caring so much? Just choose the happiness button, just choose the happy drugs, take your happy pills, there's no downside is there?


It's a very interesting topic.

Okay, but all that said
Which demigod gives the best sloppy toppy

>>714525627
A better example would be Owl, or even Margit and Morgott. Except PCR is even more different than those two.

>>714525874
Godrick
100%
>Spend your entire life feeling inadequate
>Find the one thing in life you feel good at
Yeah

>>714525717
Red gold is associated with life.

Ordovis's Greatsword - Greatsword of Ordovis, one of the two honored as foremost among the Crucible Knights. This sword is imbued with an ancient holy essence. Its red tint exemplifies the nature of primordial gold, said to be close in nature to life itself.

>>714525785
I just meant that it's disappointing that it's Radahn AGAIN, especially since the base game Radahn fight was a much better send off. Mechanically, PCR is a lot less interesting than Starscourge.

>>714525435
give me an example of something that's been explained to me because I can't for the life of me find anything that hasn't been complete cope, Malenia gaurding le haligtree is not a satisfying answer to my question, it's on the level of "why is this person doing something that makes no sense? Oh well, they want to do something that makes no sense"


Why is Kenneth Haight not a green zombie like the 50 soldiers of Godrick in the game? Tell me, give me the actual true reason to, something foolproof, go on.

>>714525823
>Nah red gold IS the crucible.
No it isn't and there's still zero evidence of this theory.
The game calls it the Golden Crucible
All the Crucible spells are golden
Red refers to the Erdtree amber, to the dew of the primordial stage of the Erdtree, and that's just Red, but there's no such thing as "red gold" in game.

DEATH IS REQUIRED TO ASCEND TO GODHOOD.
That's why the tarnished were residents of the lands between, were banished, and brought back "in death" with grace, like going to valhalla.
Since death is removed from the Lands Between, it was necessary to get it elsewhere in order to ascend.

As for why none of the Empyreans themselves left, they either couldn't, or sought death in other ways.
Ranni's thing with death is obvious, she took an elaborate roundabout method to not just kill herself but be free of the Fingers influence.
Godwyn was killed too so he was eligible but became a horrid festering cancer without a mind or soul.
Radahn fought to death in wars, but again in a land without Death, empyreans find that pretty hard and he needed to be sent by the player.

I'm probably missing a lot it's been a while.

Remember when this game released and Nepheli/Kenneth's questline just wasn't finished and it took a month to get the update that fixed it? Good times

>>714525717
>There's no different types of Gold
Quite literally wrong the primordial crucible gold is red tinged. You see it venerated by the crucible knights and the hornsent as the true form of gold.

>>714525874
Get a couple glasses of wine in Rennala and she'll suck your soul out, then cry afterwards
Worth

>>714526039
They are so different, as you yourself have stated, that it doesn't matter. They are entirely unique bosses.
And heart stolen is more mechanically interesting to me than summoning a bunch of NPCs to kill a mid-game ogre.

>>714526256
Not a demigod, but tru

>>714504246
The original sin is separate from causality. Miquella's going is to transcend causality as a god. Also, part of why he maimed his very soul was to get rid of the parts telling him that using the Gate of Divinity was a bad idea.

>>714498096 (OP)
>The Eclipse plotline died for this

>>714526348
They are one in the same in Japanese IIRC

So which cross did Miquella abandon his cock at?

>>714526426
The Trina one.

>>714526406
What plotline? It was a failed attempt to resurrect Godwyn. Just like Miquella failed to cure Malenia. And failed to make his own Erdtree.

>>714525957
The red tint is Tarnishing effect which references the amber
>A medallion with crimson amber inlaid.
>Raises maximum HP.

>The Erdtree's old sap becomes amber,
>treasured as the most precious of jewels in the age of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord.

>A primordial life energy resides inside.
>>714526254
All Ancient Erdtree uincantation are the color of gold, no red tint. Every single one of them
>>714526113
>Since death is removed from the Lands Between, it was necessary to get it elsewhere in order to ascend.
Radahn obtained Death in the Festival by conquering the Stars

>>714523191
We already had that, though. That was meant to be one of the points of contrast between the Omen brothers

>>714526260
That's just a somewhat unique grab attack. The arena isn't even as interesting as Starscourge Radahn's.

>>714525717
Wait till you learn why the crucible worshiping ancient dragons have red lightning.

>>714526547
>It was a failed attempt to resurrect Godwyn
False
>>714526406
there was no Eclipse plotline

>>714526547
You mean the devs failed to explore or develop any of the plot threads they created in the base game.

>>714526549
>Radahn obtained Death in the Festival by conquering the Stars
Pretty sure that was Malenia's doing with the scarlet rot. Radahn stubbornly didn't die so quickly, the rot was killing him really really slowly.

>>714526463
>S.T Trina is literally a girl dick
Kino

>>714526659
The plot thread is that Miquella failed to help various people in his family. That's what the eclipse lore is there fore. More supporting evidence for Miquella's entire plot thread. It's not a plot thread in and of itself.

>>714526549
Idiot

>>714521660
Mohg is still arguably quite evil as fuck, but he wasn't a complete lunatic.

>>714526564
>Morgott restricts his nature, and is a dick
>Mohg frees his nature, and is chill
Thas some color coded oni shit right there, man, except Morgott is yellow, not blue

>>714526549
There’s green amber and blue amber too you bloody dolt.

>>714526837
>and is a dick
???