Thread 714545442

>called Stop Killing Games
>will destroy the genre of live service games
funny

Nothing of value will be lost

Blood must be spilled on the altar of immortality.

>>714545442 (OP)
Good

>>714545442 (OP)
If live service developers cannot make games that are compatible with consumer rights they will simply have to make something else.

>>714545442 (OP)
It won't. Companies will just have to let players host private servers of their games after they take them offline.

>lelddit screencap
kill yourself op
>>714545517
>and if the studio went belly up
I don't think squeenix, capcom, ea, ubisoft, tencent, mihoyo, nexon, microsoft, actiblizzard, etc. are gonna declare themselves bankrupt and liquidate all assets because they didn't want their games to remain playable
>b-but they can declare themselves bankrupt
and the courts are free to reject their declarations of bankruptcy

How are private world of warcraft servers able to be hosted locally when modern AAA devs say it's impossible?

>>714545442 (OP)
Can we cut this cope?
SKG is all about making sure the games you paid for have end of life plans Incase it needs online service.

Live Service games have 1 (singular) thing that make them exempt. They're fucking FREE

Good? Live service/games as a service is top cancer?

>>714545442 (OP)
>live service games
>genre

>>714545878
Those companies will simply not market their product in Europe.

>>714545879
because people spent years reverse engineering and rebuilding it all from scratch

I am fine with the death of live service horseshit if It means I can go back play some 5/10 ubisoft game

>>714545442 (OP)
Is that PirateSoftware's alt on reddit? This sounds like concern trolling.

>>714545985
Good :D
Less revenue for the companies and less slop for the consumer

>>714545879
Impossible is actually business speak for unprofitable

i don't get why would you EVER release a product in europe?
seems like you are just opening yourself up to get sued

>>714545985
The EU Market gigantic and indispensible, dumbass. They will cave like they did for every other regulation the EU forced on them.

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
WTF I love SKG now!

>>714545442 (OP)
>SKG will kill live service games
let me sign twice!!
LET ME SIGN TWICE!!!!!
LET ME SIGN TWIIIICCCCEEEEE!!!!!!!

>>714545442 (OP)
I think just kill people who thinks games should be a service and not a product you buy.

>>714546121
*press to doubt

>>714545442 (OP)
>hosting private servers is known to damage rights on your IP
absolute bullshit pulled straight out of their asses. games have had community servers for the longest time and no one has bat an eye
if it were that harmful microshit would be suing everyone playing age of empires II right fucking now
>i-if people r-reverse e-engineer your server i-if it s-sucks
literally an admission that the dev's shipping defective software. great.
security by obscurity is a piss-poor philosophy. a system is supposed to remain secure even if an adversary knows it from the inside out
>w-why can't we s-sell a s-service
you can. you're gonna have to give players an estimated date of shut down date before they buy (that may be renewed at your discretion)
if you don't wanna do that, give players a way to keep playing the game after shutdown

>>714545985
Didn't stop Apple from agreeing to EU's demands in order to sell their products here

>>714546121
>he EU Market gigantic and indispensible
was
its tiny now compared to china

>>714545879
Goy, we keep telling you. You're being extremely anti-semetic. For the love of YHWH, if you don't shut up, we're gonna nuke you

>>714546086
Big market, euros love to consoom

>>714546152
Why should everything be packaged up as a product. Life's not that simple.

>>714546128
Gachas are even worse than live serivce goyslop

>>714545442 (OP)
BASED
BASED
BASED

>>714545985
Good. Less slop and more good games for europeans.

>>714546162
Whats there to doubt? Its a fact. What do you think is more profitable, not being able to sell your shitty game to 450 mil people with middle to high purchasing power, or caving?

>>714546260
They wont release there if they make a live service game. Europoors will be out of luck.

>>714545442 (OP)
That is a lot of kvetching for something that is NOY MY PROBLEM. Plan for the eventual sunset or get the fuck back to the construction site.

>>714546170
There's already tremendous damage inflicted on Activision-Blizzard due to private WoW servers.

>>714546346
>Euros can't waste their money on shitty gacha slop and instead will fund real games
"out of luck" lol

>>714546316
They will simply release their live service models in other countries. Cannot wait for the seethe and crying.

>>714545442 (OP)
This will just ensure that companies don't make any new games at all because if they can't make them run forever (impossible) they'll just not make them run to begin with.

>>714545442 (OP)
Abortion isn't killing though

>>714546458
Anon, are you retarded? Its games, not basedbean exports

>>714545442 (OP)
You should get a full refund if you get banned too.

>>714545442 (OP)
>>will destroy the genre of live service games
More than that.

>>714545498
this, fuck that crap

>>714546283
This you?

>>714546702
retvrn

>>714545442 (OP)
>I think this movement will kill games made by indies-
oh my god yes
>that are service-like games
OH MY GOD YES

>>714546632
They've already done exactly that in response to loot box bans in Belgium, devs either disabled that part of their games or stopped selling them entirely in that country. Ironically, this includes Nintendo with Animal Crossing Pocket Camp, which is now earning praise as an example of a "good" live-service game >>714545521.

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games

>>714546773
>pedo pacman eating troons

>>714546432
>>714546810
How dare you not buy lootboxes goy, you're killing gaming!

How this would kill indie games if they're not live service? What is there that I'm not able to wrap my head around?

>>714545836
No, they will stop selling you the game and start offering nothing but monthly subscriptions. All this movement will do is end FtP online games, which is not a bad thing, but the idea that every dev is just gonna give out their server backend is retarded. They'd rather just block euros from playing altogether.

>>714546283
Every game you pay an initial box fee for should be a product. If it's like a free game that makes money through cosmetics that doesn't need to be.

>>714547253
>they will stop selling you the game
How, I already am not buying their slosh.

>>714545442 (OP)
If it de-incentivizes live service as a priority in that stupid ass hunt for Fortnite money, it's making the industry a better place. Live service should've never become what it has, and the industry has abused it and developers thoroughly to the point that something has to give.

>>714546000
So why couldn't the devs do it if some random fans can?

>>714545442 (OP)
HURAAAAAH!!!!!

>>714545931
>Live Service games have 1 (singular) thing that make them exempt. They're fucking FREE
I mean, that's not true. Subscription MMOs are live service games.

>>714545442 (OP)
Get off of /v/, Thor.

>>714546298
Aren't they typically free to play? SKG says they only want to apply this to games you 'purchase' (rent)

>>714547303
Thanks for conceding. If Europoors aren't buying then they wont even be offered.

>>714545931
Helldivers 2 is an online only live service game that you pay 40 bucks for. If the servers went down tomorrow you could never play it again.

>>714547385
I don't even care about the initiative. I only want it to succeed to spite this motherfucker.

>>714547424
Everyone kneels to Europa.

>>714547319
Don't ask the wrong questions

>>714547385
Why is he so bitter about this? Is it because he was wrong about what it even was about in his initial video and can never admit to being wrong?

>>714545442 (OP)
>CorruptThemAllGames
Stopped reading there

>>714547207
It is a philosophical "what if" thoughtplay.
"What if all indie games live service slop, wouldn't this initiative kill all of them?"
And the answer would be "No, indies would just need to correctly label their games service contracts instead of a product that you actually buy, and tell people who enter the contract beforehand that when the game is expected to go offline."

>>714545985
yeah no. they are NOT gonna stop marketing it in europe retard.

>>714547558
He made a dumb opinion, tripled down on it, and then everyone singled him out as such a colossal jackass that it made him dig his heels and consider everyone else the bad guys.

>>714547624
I cannot wait for the seethe and crying.

>>714545442 (OP)
>>will destroy the genre of live service games
GOOD

>>714547207
>How this would kill indie games if they're not live service
It won't. It won't even kill live service to begin with.
>What is there that I'm not able to wrap my head around?
You are assuming that people are making the argument in good faith.

>>714547669
Me neither
>>714547484

>>714547659
Okay that make sense, he always seemed like a piss baby.

>>714547207
It wouldn't. The poster is developer who is arguing it it would be too much work for indie developers who make a live-service game to ensure their game has private-server functionality enabled when they shut down their game, because their staff and budget is too small.

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
God I fucking hope so.

>>714547669
they will figure out how to get AI to convert their servers into a tool for cheap.
they can comply with the law and it will barely cost them anything.

>>714545442 (OP)
>>will destroy the genre of live service games
good
euros advancing humanity again
G-d Bless those crackers

>>714545442 (OP)
go to bed, Jason

>>714545442 (OP)
>this won't allow me to gamble and put all my eggs in a live service slop game that I can drop on a whim if it doesn't immediately provide me profits
oh gosh, how awful that devs might actually have to make sure they release games they are personally passionate about instead of flooding the indie market with more soulless get rich quick attempts!

>>714547778
We're trying to make it up to the world by not finishing off jews.

>>714546919
>The country if Belgium vs the entire fucking EU

>>714547751
which it won't.
no indie studio is making an always online game like that because maintaining the servers is expensive compared to making the game player hosted.

>>714545442 (OP)
Sounds good where do I sign up then

>>714547659
>The initiative would have died even without my videos, guise!
This fucking guy

>>714547253
>every dev is just gonna give out their server backend
I'm pretty sure he meant letting users host their own servers using their IP

>>714547917
https://stopkillinggamestracker.pages.dev/
We're already on new game++

>>714547945
its a worthless shill, anon.
they have tried this line 5000 times.

>>714545442 (OP)
Just don't sign it. Vote with your signature

>>714545442 (OP)
I'll never forgive mobile developers that shut down their games.

>>714545442 (OP)
Name some indie games this effects

>If [reverse engineering and MMO/service game] was that easygoing ahead, but it's never that easy
YES
YES YOU FUCKING TARD
THATS THE ENTIRE GODDAMN POINT
>The way servers are structured nowadays to scale and modern developer practices makes it much harder to even provide something that can run out of the box on any user PC
OH YOU DONT SAY
I WONDER HOW THAT HAPPENED

>support indies, they don't have the cancer that's killing gaming
>noooooooooooooooo not my heckin wholesum 100 live service games, you can't take that away from us

>>714545442 (OP)
>they have literal developer builds that run the whole stack on an Apple Mac Mini
Redditors are not developers.

>>714548590
They act like people want to support 1 million active users on a Dell Laptop from 2014.
Like no running a thousand clients off a mac mini is all we want.

>>714547253
They tried that years ago it failed.

>>714547751
>uh we are so poor so we made our whole stack on AWS that literally rapes your wallet
Yeah no.

>>714545442 (OP)
>impossible they say
>it will kill games they say
All they have to do is to release a self hosting tool once the game reaches EOL, if old devs could I don't see how nu-devs can't.

>>714545442 (OP)
Live service isn't a genre, it's a monetization scheme.

Will gacha games become normal games you can buy? Will their game play be reworked?

>>714545442 (OP)
live service is killing games

>>714545442 (OP)
>AI sloppa WEGger thinks he has an opinion

>>714547659
He had a vested interest in its failure. The business plan he laid out for Rivals 2 also included the inevitable Rivals 3, and making Rivals 2 forcibly obsolete. Absolutely seething that Rivals 1 wasn't like that, "cutting into the market share of the next games."

no game developer wants to take the time to develop and release the backend to some dogshit game slop like The Crew some other cycle of Indian temp workers did 14 years ago.

>>714550886
saaar chat gpt will replace you

>>714550886
1. That's a lie, it's the publishers who don't want that.
2. Who gives a shit what any of them want

>>714550886
Maybe they would if the game was not dogshit.
Maybe the solution is to develop better games instead of worthless slop?

>>714545879
They assume that became lost knowledge.

Why is it impossible for people to realize that an offline version of a game was possible back in the day and its still possible today and that the reason we're here is because of greed?

>>714550886
if your game is developed as online only from the get-go, you're a bad developer or you have dogshit management. furthermore, as more and more fans prove with bypasses and hacks for various games, most of this shit is NOT actually requiring online to physically play these games normally, so it really isn't even hard to remove some shit and take out the restriction.

>>714546702
White guys and their White guy friends make the games people want to play, althoughbeit...

The only real argument i've seen against this is "yeah but that would be hard and I don't feel like doing it" which is fucking pathetic. Nobody is going to be ok with having the product they bought being purposefully designed to stop working one day just to make some fag's office job easier. Holy shit what fucking happened to this industry, there are so many stories of developers being told that something they were trying to do was literally impossible but they did it anyway, now having the game not kill itself whenever they feel like it is considered an unreasonable request. I wish the industry was as small as it used to be, it's nothing but morons and the greediest motherfuckers on the planet nowadays.

>>714545442 (OP)
It would be a good thing if it did that but unfortunately thats not actually what it does, thats what the strawman version of it that pirate software made up in his head does.

>>714545442 (OP)
After the release of Mechabreak and finally seeing a game that I enjoyed playing absolutely destroyed by predatory bullshit I'm fine with this.

>>714551561
I feel like publishers will take the path of least resistance and just move to gacha and mtx.

I just learned about this shit today and a friend argued with me because I said it was kind of unreasonable.
Pretty much the only argument he had was "they just need to pass it on to the community" but unless they pass along a bunch of private IP the servers will need to be reverse engineered, and dying games won't have the manpower for that.

It kind of feels like a psyop or reddit tier nonsense.

>>714545442 (OP)
All of those are stupid arguments, specially considering a "Stop Killing Games Protocol" would only activate when the devs/owners/company is going to shut down a multiplayer game that people have paid/put time and effort into.
and most gamers "post-shutdown" would probably host some small parties to play together or even simply to play it singleplayer.

>>714552035
>unless they pass along a bunch of private IP the servers will need to be reverse engineered
No.

>>714551819
They already tried. They stopped doing f2p nearly as much because they got btfo by the ones that already existed. Players won't switch to a new gaas slop unless it's actually good.

>>714552128
Backend software and source code are IP too.

>>714552035
>and dying games won't have the manpower for that.
Why are they waiting until the game is dying to do this? Shouldn't they be prepared before the game even releases?

>>714552035
>>714552271
you don't need to hand that over, stupid.
have it in compiled form like people have been doing for fucking decades.

>>714545442 (OP)
Yes. Stopping people from making games that are built specifically to inevitably die is part of the point.

>>714552325
"The community" of a dying game won't have enough people who are willing to do free work to make it playable again.
Like even if sony handed off concord nobody is going to even bother trying to get a server running.

>>714552487
>"The community" of a dying game won't have enough people who are willing to do free work to make it playable again.
Not dev/publisher's problem.

based, make FPS devs supply the ability for people to host their own servers again instead of only letting people go play on tranny-infested official Live Service server

>>714552487
What's stopping the developer from doing this?

>>714550289
It's lostech of the ancients requiring virgin sacrifice, please understand

>>714546086
Nah they just accept a smaller profit. That's the thing that really shows the bullshit. Everything Europe does and they STILL make a profit. They are just crying that the profit could be bigger.

How many games are even affected by this?
Obviously f2p games are exempt because you don't buy them
Same for subscription-based games
So what's left? Single purchase always online games? Diablo 3-4 and Helldivers? Maybe some other multiplayer games? There can't be that many.

>>714552035
>but unless they pass along a bunch of private IP the servers will need to be reverse engineered
Yes, they will have to pass on the IP.
>and dying games won't have the manpower for that.
Yes, the company will have to allocate manpower for that, and/or build the game so it can be EOL'd easily in the first place.

What is with the corpo cocksuckers who think it's unreasonable that a law actually require anything from corporations selling products?

>>714552625
>There can't be that many.
It's rapidly becoming every single game sold for money, anon.

>>714547465
the whole galactic war actually ensures that it cannot come back as it needs a game master to oversee it.

>>714545442 (OP)
>>714546702
One can only hope. Fuck man.

>>714552035
>dying games won't have the manpower for that.

Then just make the game with it in mind from the start.

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
>make f2p gacha
>rake in millions
>shut down game anyway because it wasn't *sold* to begin with so customers never owned anything
problem, moldman?

>>714552810
Why can't whoever admins a HD2 private server designate someone as gamemaster? That's exactly what happens for the official server, right?

How did games survive before always online and company servers? I could swear I've played multiplayer on them before

>>714552810
You're correct and it's because of planned obsolescence. Helldivers1 doesn't have this issue and can be played offline without war progress being recorded.

>>714552770
The last 4 games I've purchased are Nightreign, shapez 2, E33, and Haste
All of them are working offline just fine
That's why I'm asking because I can't really name games that are affected

>>714552923
>I could swear I've played multiplayer on them before
You're wrong and anti semitic.

>>714552703
Because I don't suck state cock either.
If a game or corporation is egregiously anti-consumer just don't buy it.

>>714552923
Sorry anon but you're delusional. Starcraft LAN was actually hosted on AWS.

>>714545985
The EU is like 1/6 the entire global economy and the people there have relatively good disposable income for things like games at normal prices.

>>714545442 (OP)
I didn't care before but now I support it, total GAAS death

>>714552920
except this isn't just one sever the GM oversees, but ALL of them, you can set up a private server for a mission, but that server is still part of the same exact galactic war, which also decides what content is available.

>>714545442 (OP)
Shut the fuck up, PirateSoftware. You retard nepobaby fuck. I'm glad you got fired from your studio, you're such an arrogant know-nothing know-it-all twat.

>>714545879
cool it with the antisemitism

>>714553095
You literally cant they ask for id, address and or passport number you retard

>>714545985
Lets roll with that logic. Now, real games have wider reach, and are more profitable. more games chase the larger market. More games become single purchase products. gaming is saved.

>>714552923
Peer-to-peer hosting by the only brazilian in the lobby who ragequits 5 minutes into a match

>>714545498
fpbp

>>714553330
Is that how UO shards survived?

>>714545879
impossible = not profitable enough

>>714552923
MotD begging for donations

>>714552035
>the servers will need to be reverse engineered
It's not retroactive. New games will be made with end-of-life in mind

>>714553217
That depends on the country you pretend to be from.

Can someone give examples of good games that died because the devs stopped supporting them and closed the servers? Because I can't think of any anyone would give a damn about

>>714545985
>huge gap in EU market
>new studios and companies take advantage to make games for them, since they still obviously want stuff to play
>The white man of EVROPA creates a game renaissance
>zero tendies, zero snoys
Sounds good to me

>>714553217
dark web ID dumps for 100 bucks of entire govt databases
I know what I said

>>714553517
Nosgoth was fun

>>714553517
Tribes: Ascend
Hawken

They weren't amazing but they were alright

>>714553517
DDO before chuds resurrected it.
City of Hoes, same thing

>>714545442 (OP)
>>will destroy the genre of live service games
Excising the cancer subsequently saving games.

>>714553613
>>714553648
>>714553648
This whole movement is stupid. Nobody gives a shit about your glup shitto game that died for a reason. Just play something else. Also, if the game was a free to play game then the devs can do whatever they want, they don't owe you anything and you didn't pay for a product

>>714546507
>Companies won't make more Concordslop
What's the catch?

>>714545442 (OP)
>it takes away developer choice
Yes. But in a good way. It takes away the choice of a developer to say: "We might shut this down in 2 months and you're left with a brick". (or more likely a publishers choice).
I do not think this will kill live service games at all. Just force them to have a plan for when the servers go down.

>>714545442 (OP)
Not reading all of that this is his game btw
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3249970/Corrupt_Them_All__Tokyo_Meow/

>>714553876
Point are not the games themselves(especially because this won't be retroactive, so it will only affect the future games), but to stop the progress into shittier future.

>>714545442 (OP)
>predatory game practice will be forced to be less predatory
oh nooooo

>>714547253
>>714545442 (OP)
>>714546458
Companies don't have a say on this matter, the consumer demand is what drives the market.
If big companies leave, their position will be filled instantly by new studios.

>>714553918
>>714553997
>>714553863
Why are you so hateful?

>>714553876
F2P games aren't free, they're supported by microtransactions. The products you paid for are the skins/characters/etc you purchased with real money, and once the game shuts down you no longer have access to your property.

>>714554061
I'm antisemitic

>>714545442 (OP)
>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
good

>>714546458
>the state of indian shills
They can't even concern troll or consensus crack right. I'm not even mad, I love the companies are hiring you retarded fucks to argue for them and replaced whites to do it, because you're so fucking incompetent you don't even realize how stupid your argument actually is. It's great when your enemies are fucking retarded.

>>714554127
They should do "Stop Killing Software" next to destroy the concept of saas as a whole.

>>714553517
All the console games that no longer work online. I'm positive that there are people out there that wished it still worked for their favorite game.

>>714553517
Shattered horizon
Battlefield 1943

>>714553517
Hawken

>>714553517
Bad Company 2

>>714547385
>pirate software
>"yarr" title
>Pirate motif
>Refuses to ever pirate
>Biggest corporate cocksucker in existence
For what purpose? Why is he trying to culturally appropriate piracy?

>>714553517
People can list off games they lost, I'll say something like the Hitman reboot trilogy does NOT need its always-online progression system retardation and Elusive Targets FOMO crap. And fans literally proved it with their own replacement mod that fills in for the official servers without needing online play. If IO ever shits the bed or get bought out again for some publisher's grubby bullshit, you'll get to play the missions you bought, and literally nothing else is accessible, which is like 98% of the gear you can't OSP on the levels themselves.

>>714545442 (OP)
The Whole point of this initiative is to kill retarded gaming practices. Service games is one of the most retarded of practices.

>>714545442 (OP)
>notice how backend devs in the comments trying to say that this is insane work
then that person isn't a backend dev as its no work for them to create a reasonable default config for the server and then also provide a download for that or make it apart of the default game download. The backend people are not even the ones who need to bother to deployments and have no would reasonably require almost zero work, they are talking about a completely different job so they are obviously not an actual backend dev and are just larping.
you don't need to make some super special magic version, you literally just ship what you are running on the server, much like games with community hosted servers did for decades?
games to this day STILL do this, every survival craft game is 100% community servers, even when server browsers go down you can still connect directly to an IP and they work.

it doesn't have to be some low system requirements bullshit, if your game is an mmo or other heavily server based live service game thats a reasonable assumption and it doesn't ask for that. but they don't even have high requirements when you don't have legitimately thousands of connections at the time, the requirements scales directly with how many users you allow.

>source
actual dude who has written bare metal network code to process business logic and created servers for billion dollar companies with millions of users of them and makes indie games, multiple of which are multiplayer.

>>714554176
>DO NOT REDEEM THAT INITIATIVE, BLOODY BHENCHOD SAAR.

>>714547558
1. He cant stand being wrong
2. He was initially against it because he was with offbrand as like marketing advisor or some shit which was creating a gaas game gaas as in games as a service so he had a vested interest in skg's failure. Since then the controversy with skg has led to him being let go and losing said position, hes become a laughing stock and all his dirty secrets dug up for the public eye and constantly pushed in his face, and people actively voting in the initiative to spite him. This is like a turbo nightmare on crack for this motherfucker.

>>714554086
Sounds like what you're actually advocating for is a digital bill of rights.
SKG is not that.

>>714554407
Undercover enemy

Which argument is worse the
>There is only 5 people playing this old ass game
Which is counter acted with: And I hope those 5 people have fun.
or
>Modern server architecture is too complicated
Which calls into question on what the fuck is the point of the modern software industry when everything is becoming more complicated, not less?

>>714554407
Not to defend him or his argument, but often people on opposite sides of an argument have similar views if they remember nuance exists.

What fucking backend developer is complaining about this?
>oh no don't put greedy corpos in a position that forces them to give me job security rather than throwing me away like a used cumrag the second the earnings report comes in

>>714554525
I'm not advocating for anything. An anon said something stupid and I corrected him.

>>714545442 (OP)
Any live service game designer who can't add client config to swap the host server IP and provide documentation for the host server program (if not provide a full as-is executable so the autists can decompile and reverse engineer it) deserve to get sac-tapped by this for designing shitty unmaintainable software.

>>714554778
Yeah, furthermore, other types of people that worked on the game (Programmers, modellers etc.) would probably be secretly jumping for joy at this because that means that their portfolios have examples that are still around.

>>714553876
>hurr durr, game sucks, who cares if it goes away
Literal baby-tier argument

>>714545442 (OP)
Go back 2 reddit and stay there

>>714554856
Nowadays it could be stupidity, but I'm just as ready to attribute it to malicious intent. Like how you have planned obsolescence in physical products and shit that will easily break and degrade so people keep buying a new copy of that tool or thing over and over, I'm certain some asshole execs up top have floated game expiration dates as an intentional "inevitability" of live service. Just look at Call of Duty: unless you play Warzone, all your shit retires every year because nothing carries to the next game, besides very specific exceptions, and every so often they reboot Warzone so all the old progress is gone too. Keep buying the new thing to keep up on the curb, and forget about all those old things.

>>714545442 (OP)
Will it though?
The way I understand it the point is that if you shut down the servers you have to release some form of dedicated server software that allows the community to keep the game running. If you're shutting down GAAS it means it was already dying, meaning that it won't affect the profits from other GAAS you may have or the market may have. The idea that you can't just release the software as-is is also kind of questionable. Yes server tech is complicated and it likely won't be an executable file that just lets you host the game, but seeing as private MMO servers have existed while having to start from 0 to functional server emulation it's not unthinkable that the backend software being there is enough to "resurrect" any GAAS from the community level.
This kind of technicality is what the lawmakers will have to consider heavily - what constitutes preserving the game, if it's literally you can turn it on on any PC then OP's concerns are correct it will often be technically impossible, but if there's some way to establish whether they can be brought back to function with relatively reasonable amount of effort(but still an effort) then it doesn't.

The IP discussion is imo. bad framing by the dude. Having ability to access server software to 10 years old CoD game that had its own servers turned off is unlikely to lead to massive increase in bot and hacker numbers. Vulnerabilities have existed for a decade at that point and most likely were exploited when they were first found, there probably won't be much interest in developing them now. It also practically doesn't affect indies in any way I don't know why he's bringing them in the discussion.
>>714545879
I actually remember playing with very old WoW emulators back in the days(as in setting up a server, not just playing on private server) and honestly the main hurdle was scripting, if they'd have og blizz scripts to work on pservers would be perfectly accurate within a month.

>>714550719
I bought rivals 1 during the summer sale the other day.

Who in the FUCK is buying rivals 2?

No mod support and live service Battle pass garbage.

The only default character I've ever touched is Shovel Knight because he's the only one that isn't some weird homosexual furry

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
finally some good results

>>714547558
He was wrong, doubled down on being wrong, and then got proven an arrogant, lying narcissist because he painted a fuckhueg target on his back by being so incredibly wrong so publicly

>>714553525
What Sony or Nintendo have to do with it? Both companies still make games that aren't always online and GaaS

>>714554975
>calling anyone baby-tier with shit taste

>>714555580
Sony has been one of the biggest GaaS pushers in recent years. Concord, Fairgames, Marathon... each and every one would be primed to defraud customers of their money.

>>714555230
The bigger concern about old server software is in re-used code. It may reveal security flaws that are still around, or lead to a leak in some sort of important source code.

Also what the hell is the community going to do when the servers don't run on modern OS anymore, they don't have source code, and the old OS is too insecure to run safely.

>>714545442 (OP)
gaas is not a genre you retarded gorilla nigger

>>714545442 (OP)
You forgot to attach the gigachad image.

>>714555747
>what the hell is the community going to do when the servers don't run on modern OS anymore, they don't have source code, and the old OS is too insecure to run safely.
People have been patching multiplayer connectivity issues literally for as long as online gaming has existed

>>714555747
Setting up a server in a way that exposes your entire network is an unironic skill issue.
There isn't any management or design tool that gets around this if you're clueless enough to allow it to happen in any way shape or form.

>>714545498
>>714546735
>>714553365
You should not be allowed to dictate what I am allowed to buy, you fascist fucks. If I want to pay for live service games, or gacha, or whatever, that's my own damn business. Fucking scum.

>>714555951
While I appreciate the anarcho-capitalist mindset, in the real world your ability to buy harmful things will be limited in one way or another.

>>714553517
Runescape Classic was fun for the 0.5% of players not botting it, and I assume the other 99.5% had fun treating it as an idle game.

>>714547659
>dig his heels
And like that poor ferret, it won't stop things from moving forward.

>>714554548
seems like it.

>>714546121
India will pick up the slack.

>>714553517
It's quite the opposite, honestly. There are tons of games that would have been vastly better as private servers based on specific builds.
Games like Tribes: Ascend would still be played to this day if there was a 1.0 build to work off of, rather than the disgusting abomination Hi-Rez turned it into within a year post-release.

>>714555951
>You should not be allowed to dictate what I am allowed to buy, you fascist fucks.
This. Fuck fascist for not allowing me to buy crack, nukes or cp

>>714546432
>funding real game
like Dustborn.
I rest my case

>Hey Picasso regulations say you need to add green paint to Guernica
>Hey Beethoven regulations say you need to use a harpsicord in this symphony
>Hey Wright Brothers this plane doesn't have the required number of safety belts we're going to have to demolish it
>Hey developer just add an entire single player offline mode even though the game isn't designed to work like that
Let innovators innovate. Don't let government bureaucrats or bitter losers stand in the way of creative people.

>>714545442 (OP)
>nooo, we can't make live service games if we have to put 1% of our profits into adding a way for people to host their own servers
Nobody is asking them to host everything themselves forever.

>>714555747
That's not a concern, that's a fucking feature. The devs should be THRILLED that their userbase is mass-testing their shit for vulnerabilities. The number off good-intentioned ones that would submit a bug report and say "hey, we found this bug in your server software that could lead to X, Y, or Z" would VASTLY outweigh the number of people who would openly exploit X, Y, or Z. And even if a bad actor gets lucky, their impact would be limited because individual private servers only affect a small number of people.

That type of gaslighting may work against teenagers but i think anyone older than 20 distinctly remembers when community servers were just the standard expected thing that everyone used to play multuplayer games and no one ever had a problem with it, no one asked for that to go away and no one asked for publishers to dominate every server option to play their online games.

>>714556334
At least Dustborn sold more than american concord slop

>>714556347
Globalist AAA megacorps aren't innovators.
They're anti-innovation, because new inventions force them to compete.

>>714556347
You can innovate, but if you invented is harmful for the consumers, we ban it, like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

>>714556347
Please don't innovate your way into my house and take my shit, nigger.

>>714556287
Nukes aren't real.

>>714556347
The wright brothers designed planes to fly to other destinations not in circles

Who has a bigger ego, Lelouche or Jason?

>>714557730
did you compare fucking Code Geass to some random hippy looking faggot redditors used to love

>>714554856
>>714555053
you retards. live service is live service. there's none of this retarded muh have muh client server sunsetting. it's all or nothing.

>>714554693
of course everything is more complicated than your stupid fucking NES and Genesis from 40 fucking years ago.

>>714558183
why do ancient toilets only require the occasional flushing, but modern toilets expect me to flush every single time?

we must retvrn

>>714547319
>why do the people doing it for a salary not have the time for it compared to random people who do it for free?

>>714545442 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nMzTj4oDYg

>>714558225
Retard, most developers aren't even using their own engine anymore, of course they think the basic low level stuff would be more complicated than coding something from scratch.

>>714558537
Wouldn't the person getting paid to do it have more time to do it since they don't need another source of income to keep themselves afloat?

>>714546702
We back?

>>714545442 (OP)
Sweet

>>714547385
what does this even mean?

>>714546702
>name's Kay Bell

>>714558952
Pure passive-aggressive seethe.

>>714558952
He's still parroting "muh vague initiative" when it's pretty clear what it wants.

>>714558952
that games stop being killed and the end result is games stop existing, but only in eu
some devs would consider the legal requirement too burdensome and not make a game, others would release stuff like gachas in asia and na but not in eu
publishers might make eu version of a game with minimal legal requirement, and the actual full game elesewhere

>>714546702
take me back

>>714558952
he still thinks the SKG stuff is about forcing games to stay online forever and trying to shit in the pool about how it'll monkeys paw on folks

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
And?

>>714545442 (OP)
Good

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games

Banning lead in gas will literally kill automobiles, someone needs to think of our profit margins!

>>714545442 (OP)
>>will destroy the genre of live service games
Lmao I thought it was retarded but if that happens it might be ok

>>714559262
They unironically should have left lead in the gas. The paint too, for that matter. Lead really isn't even that bad, I've been drinking out of a Guinness cup with lead paint for the last 5 years and I feel fine.

>>714558723
They are assigned tasks to make more money, not tasks to keep the game running long after it has stopped making money.

I gotta ask; where the FUCK are all these corpo shill fucks coming from? Are they just Anons being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, or have they truly drunk the kool-aid?

>>714545442 (OP)
Live service are not games
So good

>>714545498
Op faggotshit subhuman btfo just like that

>>714560010
I've noticed that a lot of people, not just shill anons, who make these arguments think that one day they'll be at the top raking in the dough. It's fucking insanity. Not everyone can get to that point, so even if you are in a higher creative role, would it not be better to find a solution to benefit you as someone who is both consumer and creator?

>>714560010
Corpo shill fucks are corpo shill fucks because they take corpo money to shill for said corporations. Anyone doing it for free is just fucking mentally retarded and thinks said corporations are working in their interests out of the goodness of their nonexistent hearts.

>>714556514
I like how that's the one thing you take issue with lol

>>714545521
NOOOOOOOOO! making an offline version of your game is too HARD!!!

>>714560010
I think some people just genuinely cannot comprehend the ideas of government doing something good or normal people participating in the process of government. And I can't blame them, how often does this actually happen instead of the opposite?
Plus maybe some backlash from the cognitive dissonance of having the American government dropping any pretense of caring about the future of the country.

>>714560129
>>714560391
It's insanity, I don't understand it!
There's so many instances of people making private servers (see: >>714550289) that work and have active participation, and STILL Anons are like "UHH NO THATS BAD AKSHUALLY!!!!"
Like, what the fuck!

>>714546702
Man, I wish...

>>714560129
There are plenty of poor idiot bootlickers who think they're just temporarily embarrassed billionaires.

>You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it

>>714550886
>no game developer wants to take the time to do work
They have my sincere boo hoo.

>>714560732
I personally don't get it, even in the hypothetical scenario that I do become rich, I wouldn't want to destroy the thing that got me through until I reached the point of being rich. Then again, I'm not rich so I don't know how their minds work.
I wouldn't want to be a rich motherfucker who still has to deal with my games being stolen from me.

>>714560732
Thanks Morpheus.
Now AI, make him twerk (for the lulz)

remember your roots.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvcJuBOaQE

>>714558952
I think it's like when a character makes a wish to a genie, and the genie interprets the wish in the most shit way possible.

>>714560482
>I think some people just genuinely cannot comprehend the ideas of government doing something good.
Sadly, I think this is the truth. Trust in the governemnt by the people is at an all-time low. And that's everywhere. And that's not something that can be solved easily, nor by one person; it has to be an ongoing process, and sadly that process has been disrupted for a very long time.

>>714560636
Private servers are taboo for corporations making live service games precisely because of what happened with WoW. Players didn't want to follow along with retail bullshit and Blizz didn't want to host servers for old content, so the players took it upon themselves to reverse engineer the servers and write their own scripts, and the private servers got so popular Blizz had to step in and host Classic servers because they were losing customers to the private servers hosting old versions of their own game because the old game was better than the current shit they were churning out. Modern game studios worry they will run into the same thing and try to make it impossible to do the same thing, which is why they are in total uproar about this movement.

It's NOT about live service games or MMOs, anyone bringing that up fell for PS's bait. This is about making sure games aren't designed to call home and shut down if it can't get that link because the devs shuttled the verification servers.

>>714545442 (OP)
not my problem. Maybe the big game publishers should use some of their billions to find a way to comply with the law?

>>714561379
Wrong, ross and reddit would rake you over the coals for saying this.
PS said what you said is the initiative and everyone jumped on him for being wrong. It's not about singleplayer drm, it's about ALL games you spend money on.

>>714560954
I love that even a decade+ later, Ross' speaking mannerisms haven't changed, nor his editing style.

>>714545985
>America is at risk of going to shit and the market might not be as stable
>think they'll drop EU when they'll a very large market share

lol lmao

>>714553517
Idk how popular it was, but i really enjoyed Ghost Recon Phantoms even with the shitty monetisation.

>>714545442 (OP)
again with the "indies"
i've never seen a live service indie game, and i don't think i ever will

>>714555951
Cry more then kill yourself

>>714545442 (OP)
live service killed games

>>714545442 (OP)
fpbp
live service games have been the worst thing to happen to gaming

>>714555951
>You should not be allowed to dictate what I am allowed to buy
we don't care for your cuck fetish
you're the reason the industry sucks and why idiots receive a new copy of FIFA every year with marginal improvements
>who are you to say people can't play their old versions

>>714545442 (OP)
>live service game
>genre

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
I have played waaay too much of that shit and I would gladly see it gone forever.

>>714545442 (OP)
I hate live service games with a passion. You pour hours into them, then the devs shut it down on a whim and you get nothing back. Total scam. I don't care if live service game got killed in the future. No more mmorpg in the future, that's fine with me. I don't give a fuck. Live service game is fucking cancerous.

>>714547390
they do have microtransactions in the form of skins, which by ross's words, they would have to let you access your purchased cosmetics somehow

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
The only bad thing about this is that we can't get a law passed that will also make it legal to murder people that play GaaS

>It's too hard to make a sunset plan!!!!!
Just release the source code and there will be an end to the horror

>>714547558
He and his dad are both former blizzard employees, they were both likely indoctrinated into a very anti consumer mindset at the start of their professional adult lives, perhaps even earlier in "thors" case. Blizzard has always been the covetous hand rubbing jew who only wants money while valve is the blue eyed aryan in pursuit of innovation and tech, and nintendo is basically a childlike spirit of soul and fun. Pirate faggots mindset is imposed by his lineage both genetically and professionally.

TL:DR
Blizzard alumni are kiked.

>>714545442 (OP)
>Indie NSFW Games
lol it's just some WEG slopper complaining that devs won't be able to be as lazy anymore

>>714558952
He believes the initiative is asking for something that will make the gaming market worse for everybody both gamers, devs and publishers.
Now that they got a lot more support he is wishing for a monkey paw scenario where they get exactly what they asked for (which he thinks will be awful for everybody) instead of what they want which is to preserve games.

TL;DR: he wants the entire world to burn just so he can claim he was right all along regardless of the consequences

>>714550289
dedicated servers is like mirror reflections without ray tracing
lost tech nobody knows how to do it anymore

>>714545442 (OP)
so many people wade in their opinions without reading anything

>>714546406
There is? is that why WoW is still one of the most played MMOs, if not still a considerable candidate at first spot?
How come the MMO that's the most selft-hosted is still able to be profitable and competitive in the market?

>>714560010
This site is filled with contrarians that will latch onto anything and play the devil's advocate.
Additionally there's many that hate the EU and like to paint it as ruled by lobbyists and unelected bureaucrats out of touch with the common folk.
Being a champion for consumer rights and a successful grassroots initiative would go against that narrative.

>>714553517
Gundam Evolution
Battlefield 2142
Battlefield heroes
>>714553648
>Tribes: Ascend
Damnit.

>>714545442 (OP)
>you don't get it, our server is only used for verification while 99.9% of the game is installed on your pc!
>It's simply too unfeasible for our codejeets to patch that out or just develop the game with that in mind!

>>714564335
Fucking CHOKE that Doro into DEATH!!

>>714560010
lol what do you think this place is? who do you think you are talking to 90% of the time.

>>714545442 (OP)
>Reducing cheating
>Keeping game competitive
Counter-Strike has always had dedicated servers, this is a non-argument pushed by a tranny.

>>714551561
To preface, I'm in support of whatever EU wants to do here, GDPR is a huge pain in the ass but it's worth it and this presumably will be too. The problem I see is more enforcement than straight up technical. People are right to say that converting existing large scale multiplayer live service games (think FFXIV, Diablo 3/4, WoW, Warframe, whatver) would be difficult to scale them down to reasonably run out in the wild. And while that's not what the initiative is asking to do, who is going to ensure that studios are actually designing games in a way that isn't running into the same pain points for an eventual end of life plan?
It's not very viable to ask a company with a failing game to just figure it out when they're basically about to die, using a mix of licensed software they don't own the rights to and a backend that solely exists on hardware they don't own. Is someone going to be held legally responsible for that fuckup? Or will the game die anyways, with single games now being made by throwaway companies that disappear with the game?

>>714553517
You can't get pic related legally anywhere, you need to get modded versions through pirate sites.

>>714553876
>This whole movement is stupid. Nobody gives a shit about your glup shitto game that died for a reason. Just play something else.
If AoE2 was live service back in the day, absolutely nobody would buy the HD remaster or play competitively these days.

>>714545442 (OP)
>>will destroy the genre of live service games
That people actually think this is a bad think is mind boggling.

>>714545442 (OP)
>takes away developer choice
good fuck you
>make live-service games more difficult to invest in and cause fewer publishers to consider making them
good fuck you
>it's haaaaaaaaaard, then we would have accountability, that's not fair.
good fuck you
>if we make private servers possible there are ip problems to iron out, we might not make live services anymore
good fuck you

>>714545442 (OP)
>Muh reducing cheating
>Muh in game economy integrity
>Muh competitive games

>Technical challenges
There is no challenge in allowing private servers, that is all is being asked when the games life ends
>Muh studio going bankrupt
Doesn't change a thing, all SKG is asking is for developers to lay out an exit plan for games that are reaching the end of their life in support terms.
If a company is going bankrupt then a provision to allow private server hosts to enable continued use of the game should be made so people can still play the game they bought.

>IP ownership and server property
Noone is asking for them to turn over IP ownership nor requisitioning official servers, nor are people asking companies to keep servers running forever.
>Muh server binaries
Noone is asking for them to be made public while the game is still alive and supported
This ENTIRE movement is about plans for non-official support and continued available of a game AFTER official support ends.
So when a company is fed up and moves onto the next game they can pull the plug on official server and SKG now asks that they allow people to make their own servers so that the people can still play the game they paid for.
>Servers cost money
Irrelevant, noone is asking indies or publisher to keep one going forever.

>Why can't we sell a service?
You can, SKG is about when that service ends

>I think this movement will kill games made by indies that are service-like
Good job you're a nobody that is irrelevant, you have no idea what SKG is about and every point you have made is irrelevant bootlicking crying about incorrect assumptions.


This whole thing is literally people not understanding what the matter is about, making assumptions and crying about it.

>>714545442 (OP)
well then

it's ok for games to die, everyone does eventually

>>714564335
What even happened to all the games promising big awesome bullshit from networking and shit
Remember Crackdown 3? "Oh you'll have 100% destructible environments thanks to the CLOUD servers!" And then oops, the game had none of it, too ambitious, got scrapped. I could at least see the necessity of something if they actually harnessed networking worth a damn, but like, 95% of these games basically rely on clients telling the server they're playing fairly because modern coders are retarded.

>>714565089
Yeah but that's usually by customer choice, not because the publisher said "lol, lmao".

>>714546702
Yeah I'm thinking we're back

>>714565736
Out of everyone I feel the most sorry for Tom Hall.

>>714545498
/Thread. Not my fault kikes in suits put all their shekels in the wrong horse.
>>714546702
Took long enough

>>714545442 (OP)
>MUH CREWWWWWW
Ubishit owns you.

>>714563269
>however, you can still play these games offline, using single-player mode or local multiplayer
Imagine getting dunked on by a gay commie calling you a fascists for saying that you don't care about some dogshit mmo dying because you can't read.

>>714567328
>party game
>>singleplayer
quite the dunk there you commie retard

>>714567563
You owned yourself there, you retarded nignog. Imagine being so stupid that you can't even read your own shit when trying to dunk on some faggot calling you a facists. You can still play your faggy co-op, but you can't play ranked anymore because the servers shut down. Buy the new game so you can collect all the best niggerball stars, faggot.

>>714545442 (OP)
Why should I, as a consumer care? If you're selling me something I either want to be able to play the game in some form after developers stop managing the game or I want a full refund.
Also >>714545498

>>714568050
Is throwing a tantrum over a dead mmo the best you faggots have to offer? Cope harder.

>>714568814
Who's throwing a tantrum? Did you see me mention anything about an MMO? If you're gonna disagree at least apply yourself.

>>714568913
You fags are crying about the crew, right?

>>714568993
Again, did you see me mention the Crew anywhere? I get you're trying extremely hard to get a "gotcha" but it doesn't help if you try to straw man. At least try reading what I write.

>>714569090
You're not getting a refund for an mmo.

>>714555951
>you should allow me to get raped in the ass
No.
We WILL save you.

>>714569150
Nor would I be entitled to one given that I do not play MMO game. Is this really how you're spending your time anon? Go so something better with your life.

>>714568993
The Crew is being used as the lead example because it is an european game. If it was a foreign one, the EEUU can't do shit to force outsider companies to change their laws, but if it's lcoal, then they can see how these practises might fuck with the consuemr rights we have over here.
Then, if any change to the law happens, jsut like it did with lootboxes, UBS chargers or twitter, foreign companies can either comply or leave.

>>714569150
Nobody is, the petition makes it clear it is not retroactive.

>>714545498
Fippy Bippy, death to battle pass slop

>>714545442 (OP)
>How all "Regulations" work.
You want the kind of innovations that led to vidya even existing, stay capitalistic. EU is for marxists and communism leads to stagnation.

>>714569268
>you can't just shut down an mmo
>I bought a license and ingame currency
Cope.

>>714558537
They don't have to reverse engineer to begin with though? It's their tech, it's not opaque to them.

>>714545442 (OP)
Just call it a subscription or make it free to play. Why pretend otherwise?

>>714545442 (OP)
>called Stop Killing Games
>will destroy the genre of games that get killed
funny

>>714545931
Anthem is Free?

>>714569301
today, enforcing private property, is somehow marxism and communism

>>714545521
bro's, how did they do it?
I asked a zurich-based queer and zhe told me that we just don't have the legal infrastructure to support this kind of thing?

>>714546283
I mean it won't affect somethign like WOW where you've got a clear service deal of you pay me X and you get access for this specific period. No lose access at any time for any reason or no reason bullcrap.

>>714547593
The rivals of aether 2 devs, which are not a large studio and has been working with pirate software at the time denounced pirate, said they support SKG and that their game will have an end of life plan.

>>714545442 (OP)
>>714545498
>>714545985
>>714560010
>>714560636


>If a developer shuts down a game that people paid for—especially if it’s single-player or includes content that could be preserved—they should make reasonable efforts to let players keep accessing that content.

Gotta be all shills repeatedly making posts claiming that SKG wants all liveservice games to eventually have single player. The lucky part is that pirate is the human manifestation of this narrative and he can used as a punching bag to gas the movement up whenever.

>>714564159
>>714550289
>>714550289
Matchmaking zoomies and millennials cannot even comprehend the value of dedicated servers. They have so little interaction with the concept that they've never experienced it to see the value it offers. Such as gaming communities, mods and long term preservation. Dedicated servers were mostly for PC PVP games or MMOs. Most gamers are console/mobile niggs. So there's a majority population of 'gamers' who've never joined a non official server on any game ever. With that in mind, its more likely the case for employees of a game studio to never consider to tinker with the idea. I wonder if the thought even comes across game devs that are responsible for matchmaking/back-end.

It's that and or with deliberate higher up choose to have a vice grip on the experience/image of their IP. Which is also gay.

>>714550289
you're killing gaming! TAKE THIS PICTURE DOWN RIGHT NOW YOU ANTI-SEMITE!

>>714545442 (OP)
Stop making me like this movement even more.

>>714569816
>Matchmaking zoomies and millennials cannot even comprehend the value of dedicated servers.
they're kept contained in their own safety matchmaking bubbles. whenever there's someone who says mean things or teabags them, they just report and ask to be matched with other randoms. they can't stand seeing randoms more than once, because to them interacting with strangers beyond a quick match is a harrowing experience

>>714547253
According to the EULA of many companies, like Blizzard, they already don't sell you the game. They sell you the (temporary) privilege to play their game and install it, but reserve the right to cut you off from the product you legally bought for any reason. We're already at the "they'll just stop selling games" step, if anything we should demand companies sell us the fucking game and then fuck off. What the customer does with the disk or code afterwards shouldn't be their concern.

>>714569816
>and millennials
Millennials were like the core audience for games that ran dedicated servers or games that focused on LAN and such.

When has EU legislation actually killed a sub-industry in this alarmist way? Companies just adapt

>>714570109
>What the customer does with the disk or code afterwards shouldn't be their concern.
that's more or less how the first sale doctrine works. unfortunately, with digital, these cunts like to look the other way and pretend the 1s and 0s on your computer don't constitute a copy and that the doctrine doesn't apply

>>714545442 (OP)
I hope it does.

Isn't it literally as simple as changing it from
Connect to IP = Connect to host
Obviously you'll lose most of your control over the game but if its dead, it's dead.

>>714545985
EU market is big. Their purchasing power is also relatively high probably more so than the US. Game devs can’t ignore it.

>>714551561
Even with the 'its hard' argument, is it actually any difficult or require much more labour to make a game at a baseline 'functional' when going from online to offline? Like nigger, all I did was unplug and the ethernet and you're telling me it's impossible to access my menu of jpeg waifus? Don't believe it

>>714554061
Yeah! They should stop being so antisemitic!

>>714570378
the only real problem is that many companies have locked themselves in into using amazon web services or equivalent other cloud providers. Those cloud providers don't want you to go to other providers, thus moving your code from that provider to another provider is almost impossible by design. That makes moving the server binaries from the cloud to users very difficult.

but this is a fake problem, if they did not relinquished control over their code in the first place they would not have this problem at all.

>>714546237
Are you retarded? I seriously think most people here are sub70 IQ. China’s GDP per capita is low which means most people there don’t have any disposable income to spend money on games. Who buys the games the most? People with disposable income. Europe for that reason is a huge market for the gaming industry.

>>714566961
>First MMO driving game
Damn, I really miss Auto Assault.

>>714546919
None of the lootboxes "laws" went into effect, all of the momentum died and even belgium doesn't forbid lootboxes, they only ruled that pay2win lootboxes meet all the criteria for their gambling laws and thus you need a license
Or make it so lootboxes don't meet all of the requirements
Or get a license

>>714570117
>Millennials were like the core audience for games that ran dedicated servers or games that focused on LAN and such.
PC gamer millennials to be exact. Console/mobile millennials are still the majority.

>>714545442 (OP)
1 would just mean that developers have to work differently. Thanks to containers, it's pretty trivial to run even a really complicated clutster of applications together easily with one command.

2 is nonsense, the IP is mostly in the game client anyway and that's what the customer paid for. You're not giving them extra access to it, you're just no longer allowed to take it away. And if your server is insecure BS that's easily botted now, good, that's no longer your problem, you no longer run the game. It affects yoru next game, since it runs on the same infrastructure? Fix it, then.

3 You can. You just have to make it available after you no longer offer that service.

Is this a node.js developer in charge of the website of a game studio, or something?

>>714546000
It takes years reverse-engineering it because they are a bunch of autists doing it for free on the side and they're starting from scratch with zero help. If the devs want to do the same thing, they have the resources, the source code, the financial backing, it would not be hard at all to make private servers possible and available.

>>714545931
Not true. They have micro transactions and, as the proposal specifies, they need an end of service plan to let you keep being able to use the things you paid for.

>>714570673
>the IP is mostly in the game client anyway and that's what the customer paid for.
Anon, they're talking about Intellectual property, not Internet Protocol.

>>714570202
It sounds like it would be a pretty easy slam dunk for any lawyer to take a company to task about what is essentially a one sided contract with the consumer. Expecting people to pay 70 bucks minimum, with microtransactions after that, and not only do they not own the product, but their usage of it can be revoked without a reason. That is some next level bullshit.

>>714546919
Removing ~1% of your revenue because you don't feel like adhering to regulations is something companies can tolerate. Removing 33% or however much it is depending on the company, on the other hand, not so much.

>>714545442 (OP)
This.

>>714570857
>It sounds like it would be a pretty easy slam dunk for any lawyer to take a company to task about what is essentially a one sided contract with the consumer.
You'd think so but no. Everything you just said isn't exactly unlawful after all.

>>714545442 (OP)
Look this up, guy sounds like a dumbass who refuses to say what the "Technical challenges" is.
Like here. Why can't a local server do this?

>>714570857
In the EU maybe, in the US prior precedent makes it hard.

>>714570951
What about selling games as a service but marketing them as a complete product? Is that grounds for deceptive marketing?

>>714570845
And the IP isn't being lost. PEople being able to host servers isn't a violation of IP laws, and people trying to make money out of dead games would still violate said law and companies allowed to shut them off.

Again, I don't get why this is an issue when we've been throuhg this for decades before GaaS. WoW private server were never a threat to official ones, and they only became close to it when Blizz insisted that people did not want wow classic, and when it blew up and finally bended the knee, they profited hard from it too.
At the end of the day, what companies truly fear is having to actually put effort and work into their products so you have a reason to move on, rather than being forced to because the old product got removed from the market for no reason other than lazyness and greed.

>>714570982
he is implying that there is some reason they cannot deliver the binaries of the server to end users, due to licenses of software they have bought to write server, or because they just don't want to.

it is just a them problem toh

>>714570982
because they're either techlets pretending to be one.
>monolithic architecture is when all the functions are performed by one process
>microservices are just different processes that talk to each other, so you can run the processes on different systems
wooooooow that's sooo complex

>>714547558
He's right tho

>>714545442 (OP)
>M-MUH INDIES!
>w-well, I know most of you are not and will never work on these kind of games but, t-theoretically it could affect you too!
god I hate these disingenuous scumbags so fucking much. if it actually fucked shitty indie devs then GOOD, I don't give a fuck either way, but not ONE fucking indie is actually making this kind of slop so it's pretty obvious that these faggots are just trying to hide behind them because they know what they are doing is indefensible. I hope it becomes law and I hope the penalty for failing to comply is DEATH.

>>714571054
Thing is a game with DRM isn't a game that's being sold as a service, it's just an anti-piracy measure and they're already required to put that on the box/store page.

>>714545985
>Just like Apple and Microsoft and Google and Twitter and Steam and EGS!
Oh wait

>>714571116
>Again, I don't get why this is an issue when we've been throuhg this for decades before GaaS
That's because you don't quite understand what falls under IP. You're under the impression that it can only be the property aka the characters, worlds, story etc. but code and software also fall under that.
As for games in the past that came bundled with server software that was all the choice of the developer rather than being forced by law to do so, in addition they were often unique to each game so giving it out wouldn't compromise other games but in this day and age with more and more games coming out using third party software, servers or using software for multiple games isn't uncommon.

>>714571757
>every single one btfo'd the EU
????

Are you telling me that developers will have to dig up ancient technology like allowing people to host servers?

>>714571850
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>714555951
you will still be able to throw your money into the trash no problem.
only thing which changes is that the trash has to say on the box that it is in fact trash

>>714545442 (OP)
>genre of live service games
Your organs should be tied to a subscription model and "live service", you retarded, terminally domesticated debtcattle.

>>714545442 (OP)
Good there have been like 5 good live serves games. The only people that will be upset are corpos and whales.

Mainly I don't understand the slogan at all.
It is effectively the opposite of stop killing games. There is no good game that's affected by this. So this is about killing off shitty games. Why would I put any extra time or effort into this shit as a developer? I'll just change to something else, I'm after profit after all. Game that no longer is playable becomes game that was never playable by virtue of not existing in the first place. If you want this then it should be called "start killing live service games". I'm all for it actually.

>>714571775
I understand that, it still does not work againt the current market. The code is still property of the company, and therefore using it oturigh for another bussiness, makign profit selling a product, is illegal. That won't change with SKG, same way you're allowed to open your car or PC and fiddle with the aprts and design as much as you want, as long as you understand you're letting go your warranty. The EU even forbids many companies from itnentionally putting obstacles in you trying to repair or change parts.
The whole point of these movement is that now the "bundle server software" would be mandatory to a degree, and therefore responsability of the developers to prepare for that eventual day. Remove unique or experimental code,comments and everything you need, but release it. If the situation where you cannot offer all the services as when the game was online is possible, then do the closest. But specially, if you're awarwe of this before a game even begins development, then not delivering is entirely your fault. People keeps focusing on MMOs when SKG states that they are the trikiest part and the ones that will likely not be able to fully deliver, but whatever they do, one should be able to boot the game and play, even if all online functions are missing or even the tools to set up a server.

To me all these feels like a kid who never cleans after playing getting mad that he has to clean now, ignoring or refusing to aknowledge all the other kids or even elder brothers who always clean and never had this issue. There is no need for most GaaS games to be GaaS, it's jsut a market strategy to ensure control of the consumer.

>>714570845
Thats just a case of a redditor being retarded like always. The retard is essentially arguing that owning a book in your shelf is infringing on the copyright of the book author, which is not fucking true at all.

>>714572341
>Why would I put any extra time or effort into this shit as a developer?
ffs
YOU DO NOT NEED TO
IF THIS EVEN PASSES
ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS
INFORM YOUR EU END USERS
BEFORE THEY BUY YOUR GAME
THAT YOUR GAME HAS A FIXED LIFECYCLE WHICH ENDS AT DATE X
AND THAT YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN EOL PLAN
NOTHING MORE

>>714572538
Yeah but people won't read that, ever, in a million years. So it won't be valid.

>>714572341
warcraft 3 has been destroyed when they released warcraft 3 reforged.

>>714545498
fpbp.
>We are shutting down the sludge factory
>"BUT MY JOB IS TO PRODUCE SLUDGE!!!!"

>>714555951
you aren't human so your opinion doesn't count.

If modern devs can't even figure out how to make a game run without always online web services is it even a game worth being made?

>>714572578
what are you even saying?
nobody fucking cares if you do or do not read it if it says on the box and the EULA
you got informed, everything after is up to the consumer

>>714572341
That's the thing anon. If your game is already online and multiplayer (pretty much the only games effected by SKG) then making the servers available isn't going to be extra time or effort. You already have those tools in house for testing.

>>714572742
Dif guy here. What would happen if they said that service ends 12 months after release but then they end up shutting the server down 6 months in? I think an expiration date is a good idea but what's the actual punishment for not holding up their end of the rental agreement?

>>714572341
>There is no good game that's affected by this
Turnign these discussions about quality rather than rights is how companies are able to keep getting away with bullshit.
If you only move when your toy is being removed and not when toys start to get removed, you don't have a right to cry when yours eventually get removed too, as by then the law agrees that's legal.

Is the constant spam of fake shilling meant to be funny? cuz I'm not laughing.

>>714546000
yeah with zero budget, zero access to the original code and at best some leaks of the beta version of the game

>>714545442 (OP)
this is meant to be a bad thing?

>>714572907
that would probably fall under fraud
not a lawer though, so this this information is supplied without liability

Why are people acting like a glorified petition is a fucking act of legislation? Are you pretending to be retarded?

>>714573053
Because it's has the right of initiative. The European Commission is obliged to respond and at least consider turning it into legislation through the European Parliament and European Council.

>>714572391
>The code is still property of the company, and therefore using it oturigh for another bussiness, makign profit selling a product, is illegal.
That's... Not even remotely illegal. It's their property to use at their leisure.
>same way you're allowed to open your car or PC
Anon, hardware isn't software. They don't follow the same rules.
>The whole point of these movement is that now the "bundle server software" would be mandatory to a degree,
Thing is you can't really do that the way things are now because it may not be the company's IP to give if they're using third party software.


>There is no need for most GaaS games to be GaaS, it's jsut a market strategy to ensure control of the consumer.
Like you were told before games with DRM aren't necessarily GAAS games.

>>714572683
Please. Old games you bought had servers they would contact for updates when you launched it. When those games went final they'd shove a servicepack on their website for about a year, shut down the live update servers and instead run their end-of-life server that basically told players "Hey, update servers shut down now, thanks for playing" and players would have to figure out where they could download the final service pack update with a quick google search.

There is absolutely no need to murder a game once running the live update servers become a burden. You can still find updates for The Sims 1 online and that game is almost 30 years old.

It's all about profit. Forcing you to give up a game means forcing you to buy something else. They also think that licensing prevents piracy which is hilarious.

>Laughing FitGirls.jpg

>>714573165
And they likely won't since EU "democracy" is blatantly corrupt.

>>714555951
And you and your trashy taste shouldn't be allowed to dictate how games are developed

>>714545442 (OP)
dont care

clean it up wagie and make it playable

>>714545442 (OP)
>developers will have to solve a problem that was already solved 30 years ago and somehow got "unsolved" when that aligned with making more profit
Lmao

>>714573227
People no longer fall for that ploy.

>>714546702
>white dude saying this
Kek hate these evil retards

>>714546702
we're so back guys

>>714545879
IT ISN'T SHUT UP.

>>714573180
One of the other arguments I've seen is that modern games are filled with so many third party licenses that are only valid for xyz years so they CANT give the players those tools.
Actually I have a good example right here in pic related.
The devs talked about how they REALLY wanted to add mod support during the entirety of early access. Then the moment the game goes 1.0 they say "Oops lol we can't cuz license agreements sorry!"

Fuckers. But the excuse as annoying as it is still stands. I suppose they would just have to either get a permanent transferable license or figure it out so they don't need one in the first place.

>>714546000
Very based.

>>714545498
How did the thread get any further than this?

>>714548104
underrated

>>714547319
Devs aren't gonna hand you over their shit so you can run pay to win scam stores hosed in some shithole.

>>714545442 (OP)
>but a company will be suddenly forced to rewrite the game when it's already unprofitable
No retard, you know what the rules are and that all games will hit end of life eventually so you design it in a way that makes it easy from the start

>>714573176
>That's... Not even remotely illegal. It's their property to use at their leisure.
Iwas talkign about the consumer to open the software offered and reusing the code for something else. That is idneed illegal.
You cannot techncially make money out of private CS 1.6 servers. People does, but Valve could shut them down rightfully if they wanted.

>Thing is you can't really do that the way things are now because it may not be the company's IP to give if they're using third party software.
And with this change, companies now know they'll have to do that before setting up the server, therefore needing to look up for an alternative that works. Hell, even more, if the law passes and this is enforced, then said 3rd Party software companies will know of it and work to also offer said services if possible, sicne that's what the market demands now.
Even in the situation where most companies refuse to oblige and leave the market, it will only take for 1-2 medium to big projects that actually deliver on this and cash on european market along new laws for others to follow.
Is it possible? Yes
Will it cost more resources from devs? also yes. But I don't see much issue with that. You made consumer pay for itnernet twice, monthly fees and microX on top of paying for a game, a little bit extra on the developer doesn't sound too bad.

And you be the one to walk into the executives room and tell them "We're leaving the european market because we don't like the new laws", see how they react and agree to lose even 10% of consumers.

It won't be easy, but it's also possible, specially since it has been done already. Times are different, but that doesn't mean the old tech cannot be adapted or improved for it.

>>714545985
>Make one small patch in couple of years
vs
>Not engage with whole market
This constantly comes up, its such a retarded take.

John Videogames himself just opposed the petition. SKG trannies in shambles.

https://www.videogameseurope.eu/news/statement-on-stop-killing-games/

>>714572909
yeah well I don't pick shit toys, so, uh, keep malding.

>>714545442 (OP)
Good
>>714545498
FPBP

>>714545985
I don't understand how there are this many fucking cocksuckers on this site that genuinely think that corporations are going to avoid a multi-billion dollar market because they will now make slightly less money because some of the development cost has to be dedicated for end-of-life plans for live service games. It's as retarded as someone arguing that when seatbelt regulations first came into existence car manufacturers would have just stopped producing cars for countries that require seatbelts. The industry adapts if there is money to be made. It always does.

Did the tech industry stop selling in Europe after
General Data Protection Regulation (data privacy regulation)
Digital Markets Act (app sideloading on smartphones)
Digital Services Act (combat illegal content, transparent advertisement, combat disinformation)
USB-C
No?
Will it stop selling in Europe with the upcoming Replaceable Battery regulation?
No?
So why the fuck would anyone with a single functioning braincell think that sunsetting regulations will cause a dent in the amount of games released in Europe unless they haven't paid attention to the history of EU regulations that have had exactly zero impact on availability of products that are being sold in Europe.

>>714550289
not even old
I've got at least 2 of those from last year's games

Ross should just become a full time EU policy pusher. Theres a bunch of other ones he should bring attention to.

>Noo not my gaas slop
Tick tock Funcom

>>714573592
who knew a video game lobbying group would try and discredit something that threatens the video game industry to actually improve?

>>714571843
USB-c being standardized and power consumption stickers being mandatory are all EU changes. Companies complied instead of ditching EU. Its very funny how trannies try to argue that big companies will just ditch EU when Apple has been sucking China's dick for years just so they can manufacture their cellphones there.

>>714573651
why are they doing this? are they just stupid?

>>714573651
No, you don't understand. The entire videogame industry was completely unprofitable before liveservice games existed. Every single multiplayer title required billions of dollars in development budget. Did you know that in order to develop Quake the devs had to siphon funding from a NASA project? Four rockets crashed but Quake multiplayer survived.

>>714563472
>which by ross's words, they would have to let you access your purchased cosmetics
BASED BASED BASED

>>714555951
Sorry, we're anti-retard

>>714573808
No, but the people in charge of making these laws might be ignorant enough to believe it. I really hope the EU can find experts on BOTH sides to explain what the truth really is. Assuming they even care enough to listen in the first place. Lobbying here in the US is a shitshow with closed door meetings backed by multi billion dollar corporations.

>>714573583
>companies now know they'll have to do that before setting up the server,
The problem is that's altering copyright and ownership rights as well as introducing a bunch of security issues.
That's the main issue here and I doubt the EU is going to compensate every single affected company and developer if there's a security breach.

>And you be the one to walk into the executives room and tell them "We're leaving the european market because we don't like the new laws", see how they react and agree to lose even 10% of consumers.
No one said that they're going to leave the Europe, that's always been a strawman just like permanently keeping servers on. The most likely scenario is that they'll just stop making online games in general but double down on dlc and mtx because it's just too much of a risk.

>>714545442 (OP)
>um actually this will kill games because I'm a game dev and this gives me anxiety and I don't wanna do it
Lolrw

>>714573847
>muh peer to peer arena shooters
Retarded nigger.

>>714573952
>but the people in charge of making these laws might be ignorant enough to believe it.
considering companies like apple tried to pull a similiar trick and it didn't work I don't worry about that.
>Lobbying here in the US is a shitshow
well yeah because America isn't an actual democracy, it's run by corporations and is a barely functional country so of course they can lobby to stop things, EU countries are for the most part actually functional.

>>714545442 (OP)
>CorruptThemAll
thanks for you opinion gay pedo redditor

>>714573952
>but the people in charge of making these laws might be ignorant enough to believe it.
Germany keeps trying to push for more internet restricting laws, which France and Finland always vote No against. So german meps are the most likely people to vote No if any SKG-related law gets to the voting phase. So its not a slam-dunk case at all.

One thing the pro-SKG side should argue is that it will fuck over Silicon Valley companies, EU is openly hostile against the big US tech. So with that angle it might just pass.

Only through faith in Yog-Sothoth and deep exploration of the Dreamlands can we discover the mythical, unspeakable knowledge known to the ancients as "dedicated servers"

>>714572909
So wait, this is all about hypotheticals? And what about the right to profit from absolute retards?

the amount of posts that are just gloating that something lots of people pay for and enjoy could disappear is telling

Games are not physical products you can "own". They are walks in the park, a softball game with your friends, a trip to an amusement park. They are just things for entertainment to pass the time.
You don't gain full ownership of the park or ball game because you spent $20 on a ticket.

>>714573961
>That's the main issue here and I doubt the EU is going to compensate every single affected company and developer if there's a security breach.
Given these wouuld all be for end of service, I doubt the EU or companies would be held responsible for it. If you get hacked for playign in some scumy CS1.6 sevrer, Valve doesn't need to do anything. Don't forget, all these demands only need to become active once the company annoucnes they're leaving the game for good, and not one second earlier. Until that point, they way they operate and run these infrastructures wouldn't be any different than what they alreayd do. And again, if delivering full service after end of service isn't possible, you don't have to do that. For cases like The Crew, a way to just boot up the game and play offline without any way to connect with others and no host tools would be fine. Being able to open WoW and walk around alone in the world with the characters you made (by simply downloading a bunch of files related to which character are tied to your account before it dies) would be okay too.
I am aware WoW is a bad example here since the game is complex (and poorly coded) enough that something like that would be hard, but also since the law isn't retroacctive they wouldn't have this issue. But a future WoW 2 would have to.

Ross has mad eit clear along the sldies that the end goal is not to force companies to do whatever we want but to start a discussion to find a middle ground that pains the least both sides: any solution that allows consuemrs to keep playing one way or another and publishers/devs to be relegated from responsabilities beyodn the stablished dates.

>>714574235
Talking about quality is talking about hypotheticals, you're the one engaging ina conversation with no defined limtis or metrics. And you can still profit from retards, jsut don't use propietary code for it.

I find it funny how devs pretend the architecture is just too complicated for the community to setup by themselves, yet there has never ever been a single vidya preservation project that had the required components but couldn't make it work. In fact, all the popular community projects improved on the netcode, security and so on compared to the corpo version somehow.

>>714574304
>Games are not physical products you can "own"
the game files are a physical object inside my machine

>>714545442 (OP)
>live service
>genre

>>714545442 (OP)
>Devs might have to work a bit harder so that means consumers shouldn't be allowed to have rights
Nah fuck em. I don't give a shit if the bill also stipulated that all devs must get spanked on the ass for every line of inefficient code they wrote too. Consumer rights come first. Fuck devs.

>>714545985
Denying market access is why China is very effective at censoring things outside of China, companies will bend over backward for access to a sizeable market. The cost of EoL plans is nothing compared to the loss of revenue from not operating in Europe at all.

>>714574371
Technically not if you have an ssd

>>714574338
There's a defined metric, it's a live service. Just don't buy a game that says "we may terminate shit at any given moment". You already get raped while the game is active.
>>714574338
>jsut don't use propietary code for it
Give me a single example of something open source that's gacha profitable.

lol EU as a market has more to say than US

>Lazy devs use a bullshit game engine and a bunch of third party software
>The licensing is only good for 5 years
>In those 5 years after release they never once thought about writing their own and switching to them in the EOL update
>Whoops sorry!

Modern gaming was a mistake. Take me back to 2003.

>>714574338
>Given these wouuld all be for end of service, I doubt the EU or companies would be held responsible for it
Are you under the assumption that every game that uses the same software would die at the same time?

>>714574636
Wait I just realized. Everyone's going on about how "it's not the source code we're demanding it's just the server tools" and now some motherfucker wants it not to be proprietary. Make up your own mind guys. Right to repair seemed more clear about this.

>>714574787
How did Notch do it?

>>714574636
>There's a defined metric, it's a live service.
Not a real metric since the enviroment is unrelated to the game experience. You could make [insert your favourite game here] always online for DRM but that wouldn't make the game tiself a bad game, just the way it is delivered to the consumer. And at some point, it is likely all games work liek this if things don't change.

>Give me a single example of something open source that's gacha profitable.
Propietary code that you don't own, retard. You can totally make your own software to scam retards as long as you comply with the law and consumer rights.

>>714574701
No? Never said that. I said that the moment a company goes "we're stepping away from the game and no longer providing service for it" but delivering the tools necessary to keep playing (regardless of it is off or online), they're no logner responsible for what happens to the consumer with it. If someone changes the tools or makes new ones to play online and that fucks with people from a third party, that's a third party, company has nothing to do with it.

>>714574787
Have you even bothered to read the initiative or is this you getting confused because you're absorbing all of this off of 4chan

>>714574304
your examples require intrinsic access to external spaces that is not natural to video games, it must be contrived by deliberate design decisions
the equivalent of the park is your computer

>>714574787
The point isn't for there to be a single solution, by nature of all the different games that's impossible.
But there always is A solution, especially if it's a known requirement that has to be accounted for ahead of time. All that matters is the result.

https://www.twitch.tv/piratesoftware/clip/AssiduousTiredBoarRitzMitz-j0W1S8wiY9wGCtK7
how was this not posted yet
dude is absolutely assblasted lol

>>714574968
>and that fucks with people from a third party
And the other games that still use that software that are still online?

>>714574968
>Propietary code that you don't own, retard.
u wot m8

>>714575159
Ew, Twitch, that's disgusting.
Post a streamable or something.

>>714575152
>All that matters is the result
a rare moment of accidental clarity.

>>714574968
>but that wouldn't make the game tiself a bad game
I beg to differ, it would put me off right away. Since there's a reason for always online DRM, that reason alone is enough for me to stay away from it. It could be Skies of Arcadia 2, I just don't give two shits. I see that there's something like that in there and I just don't bite.
It still takes resources to make a game online only like that. You think some random guy in his basement is going to do the same with his 2 year old project as Ubishit does with a racing game meant to have multiplayer online?

>>714575152
What -is- the result?
Lay it down in detail.

>>714575159
Now that's some proper butthurt.

>>714575159
Ive seen this picture of him crying, but where's the clip? Or is that shopped?

>>714545442 (OP)
How? Live service games have EOL and once that hits whether or not people can host their own servers is irrelevant from profit perspective.

You vill change for the better and you vill like it.

>>714575159
pfffthahahah,he is really assmad

>>714575159
Bam...that was a mic drop!

>>714575414
I mean, the guy IS basically being tumblrized. That would piss anyone off.

>>714575190
SKG already adresses this.
If said third party software is too risky to be given at the end of servcie, then you do the next step, which would be a way to play offline without it, even if there's missing features. As long as the consumer is able to boot up the game and play it, that's fine and the developer free os responsability.
And if the game is made after the law is active, then the developer should know better than to set up an infrastructure that doesn't allow that once the game is about to die. If you know you have to do something before you start, it's your responsability to deliver in some way, to find the alternative.

>>714575274
Okay, but that's you, not the whole world and specially not the law which shouldn't work on subjective tastes. You're doing good not buying these games, but if that's the case, then you got no ball in this game. Wetehr this passes or not, there won't be a change in your life. If anything, maybe now that you have the security that you'll be able to play forever, you might also give a try to some of these games.

Oh no what will the poor gambling addicts do?

>>714545985
>apple folded
>valve folded
>ea folded
>google folded
>twitter folded
>egs folded
I'm sure it'll be different this time though.

>>714575618
>>714575159
>>714547385
lmao it's the same phrase he posted on discord
dude must have been sitting there thinking about a "comeback"

>>714545442 (OP)
Uh, yeah. That's literally the idea, moron. Before SKG's, Ross's activism magnum opus was "Games As a Service is Fraud"

>Yeah, we found out that your product uses a chemical compound that poisons the water supply and creates mutated children, you don't get to sell it like that anymore
>"B-BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO STAY PROFITABLE? THINK OF THE POOR SHAREHOLDERS. HOW ARE WE GONNA PAY FOR THE ROOF OF OUR HEAD. WE CAN'T AFFORD THE R&D TO FIND A REPLACEMENT COMPOUND"
>tough luck. You'll figure it out or stop selling in the EU
>"THIS IS GENOCIDE. THIS IS COMMUNISM. AAAAAAAAAAAH SAVE ME AMERICAN LIBERTARIANS AND INDIANS!!!! I AM BEING OPPRESSED"

>>714575668
>not the whole world and specially not the law which shouldn't work on subjective tastes
It's more common sense than a taste thing, but I guess the government should regulate not only what kids get to like but also what manchildren get to like.
>If anything, maybe now that you have the security that you'll be able to play forever, you might also give a try to some of these games.
Assuming they'll even exist, because there's less of an incentive. I think I will just see less online games in general, good or not.

>>714575668
>If said third party software is too risky to be given at the end of servcie, then you do the next step, which would be a way to play offline without it, even if there's missing features
That's not something that was ever said in the FAQ but okay that would also require a whole new game to be made for games that are designed around online play that don't necessarily have a single player campaign.

>>714575796
>"THIS IS GENOCIDE. THIS IS COMMUNISM.
It's funny because you have rightoid retards calling it communism while you have leftist retards calling it fascism. When you've managed to piss off both sides of the status-quo-upholding aisle, that's how you know you're truly doing something right

>>714546121
Only markets in the world that matter are
>US
>Russia
>China
>India
Dystopian communist bureaucratic hellholes need not apply.

>>714575839
>now that seatbelts are mandatory to be implemented in their designs by car manufacturers we will surely see less cars

>in the future indians will be forced to play games as a gacha
>europeans can buy the full game without any monetization
Enjoy your world power in 2050 status.

>>714575892
>>US
looool smaller than EU. You only sell services, there's a reason why Trump bitches about trade deficit

>>714575668
>Wetehr this passes or not, there won't be a change in your life
That's not how it works, retard.
This affects how games are developed and can both increase development times and what kind of games are being made.
Regardless of buying those games if a law is passed you're going to be affected.

>>714575965
>smaller than EU
Hardly. Only by 15%

>indie AInigger redditor /weg/ ""developer"" screencap
500 replies

>>714575796
Why do you people always try to equate entertainment to fucking food?
B
How is a digital file or plastic disc going to poison and mutate your child exactly?

>>714575796
>chemical compound that poisons the water supply and creates mutated children, you don't get to sell it like that anymore
Not a problem because people simply won't buy it if it's that bad. Vote with your wallet and don't let corrupt unelected government officials to "regulate" your way of life.

>>714575891
The funniest to me is the whole "government overreach regulation thing." Yeah, if you're not going to enforce your will with the tools given to you by the government, then corporations will enforce their will by using these same tools. Like nigga, it's one way or the other. Corporations love it when you don't make use of your rights and allow the government to protect those rights.

>>714576003
>Dedicated servers
>Increase development time.
It does the opposite. Matchmaking systems are more time-consuming to make than just hosting servers where people can join.

>>714553517
Need for speed world, it was cheater infested and p2w but playing with friends was comfy.

>>714545442 (OP)
It's not going to kill them outright, it'll just discourage publishers from being dishonest greedy pigs.

Getting big net neutrality vibes from this shit

At this point the only thing keeping me on the SKG side is this shit honestly >>714573592

>>714575930
To be fair in realm of car regulation environmental standards choked out entire classes of vehicles because they are written in retarded way and favour larger cars that actually pollute more because they tied it to weight.

>>714576276
Isn't that an american thing?

The whole light pickup not being hit by environmental regulations but sedans getting the ban hammer leading to SUV muh truck hellscape?

>>714576054
>Why do you people always try to equate entertainment to fucking food?
This isn't about food, retard.

>>714575930
Holy shit yes, let's compare preventing death to just setting you back some dollars for something you enjoyed for a few months than you can enjoy for longer.

>>714575939
lil bro makes idle clicker games with AI porn in the background

>>714575939
>goes bankrupt

>>714571310
He's never been right once in his life

>>714576132
>Not a problem because people simply won't buy it if it's that bad.
Are you retarded? You don't get to avoid that shit just because you don't buy it. Look at PFOA and led poisoning.

>>714576392
>Sorry but your license to read this book has expired. Now burn down your bookshelf or else!

>>714547659
This graph isn't even 100% accurate, the initial downturn corresponds directly with him talking about SKG on stream originally, he made the youtube video a few weeks later to rub it in

>>714575159
oh he absolutely reads these threads, by the way back this up he will probably get it deleted soon

>>714545442 (OP)
>BUT THEN INDIES CAN'T MAKE LIVE SERVICE GAMES
serious question, why would you ever make a live service game as an indie developer?

>>714576392
In the capitalist society "dollars" is literally a section of your life you'll never get back which is why stealing should be punishable by death

>>714576172
>Getting big net neutrality vibes from this shit
Modern /v/ would have wanted SOPA back in 2012
The amount of cocks this place sucks would make Sasha Grey look like a nun.

>>714575796
>Can no longer play a shitty racing game by the shittiest of corporations
>"I'm literally being genocided right now guys"

>>714564587
They would make an end of life plan during production, simple.

>>714576634
>"I'm literally being genocided right now guys"
Or I will just sign the initiative and watch the (indie) game dev meltdown over something that demanded less than 5 minutes of time and attention from my side.

These fuckers don't want you to own anything. They're shitting their pants on how fast SKG is now gaining support. They're trying to turn this into another gamergate and I'm afraid it's actually working.
Game journalists are making Asmongold and Pewdiepie the face of the SKG movement.

>>714575159
I like how he's more butthurt about people trying to discredit his "accomplishments" than the actual harassment

>>714576172
>>714576614
explain why this is comparable to SOPA or perish

>>714576778
only if we let them, we just have to fight back, and honestly, we need Ross to still be the figure head and really convince him to keep pushing through and more importantly support him financially

>>714576539
>Your bookshelf
Sorry but "your bookshelf" is something that's taking my own space. I will burn it myself, I don't need to tell you to do it. Maybe you should have bought your own bookshelf and your books you can keep in there instead of agreeing to my terms. Now pay up for the sequel faggot and don't act like you won't be fooled twice.

>>714576386
Then why do you people keep bringing it up?

>>714576054
>>714576634
>but i didnt have breakfast

>>714576906
Poisoning water supply is related to shit like PFOA. It has nothing to do with poisonous food additives.

>>714575159
he is so fucking mad everyone finally learned what a fucking idiot he is
>he is still pretending the review bombing is real
unreal

>>714553517
wildstar :(

>>714576353
Europe ended up with the same effect but for slightly different reasons.
>1t car gets to emit 10 units
>3t car gets to emit 30 units
but it's not practical to scale an engine down even more so smaller cars are struggling to hit the limit. I can buy an SUV that is way more car than a need or a small car with a shit lawnmower engine. I can't just buy less car with the same engine because that's a sports car fuck you. You will drive an underpowered SUV and you will like it.

>>714576903
Actually, the bookshelf is taking MY space, since it's in my house. I might've paid you an initial fee to install it aswell as from time to time to send me books, but just because you decided you no longer wanna sell books and bookshelves doesn't mean you have a right to come into my house and take it all away, same way I cannot start seeling them under the same name you used.

>>714577003
Are you being retarded on purpose or do you not realise humans need to drink water to survive and that's the most common way of ingesting liquids?

>>714577434
Water is not a food.

>>714577414
Your space is volatile as shit and everytime you try one of your troonux distros you have to come to my house and copy the fucking bookshelf again and it's irritating as shit.
Also I did not take whatever you have away, I'm just no longer giving you the required access to my shit.
>Then bring it over
So what, so you can go and provide the fucking bookshelf to other people? Nah fuck off I'm the one making moola here nigga

>>714577490
Water is indeed considered foodstuff.

>>714577637
>So what, so you can go and provide the fucking bookshelf to other people? Nah fuck off I'm the one making moola here nigga
It's not like you're giving away the game's isntaller, just enough that I can keep playing it.
Hell, you could even keep selling the game at a lwoer price with a warning while you focus on your new projects.

Really, this whole shit feels like the classic corporation entitlement where they want success and profit out of doing nothing rather than actually providing a new product that's competitive enough for meto want to let go old one. That's the whole reason GaaS and online DRM is so common, because they can make new games, remove old ones and force you into the new products by removing alternatives, and we have cases for both games where the old one is there but the new one succeeds by virtue of being better or having more features and games where new ones bomb because the miss the point the old one had, which was what players wanted.

>>714575930
You people can never make accurate comparisons.

>>714555951
>you fascist fucks

>>714545442 (OP)

This people think they work for free for fucks sake, and are completely ok with anti consumer practices as long they work less. STOP KILLING GAMES cunts! Things are not ok as they are. I payed for a product, not matter if it's a fucking license, leave the thing that I payed for in working state, and make that a priority from the get go.

>>714577837
>this whole shit feels like the classic corporation entitlement
Okay not to be that guy but come on, they're the ones making this shit, it's their product and software. It's not entitlement to control what you own.
YOU are the entitled one here asking for protection and rights for things just because you don't want to accept you fell for FOMO bullshit.

>>714545442 (OP)
>will destroy the genre of live service games
So God willing.

>>714545984
Right! That's only a shit corpo practice, not a genre.

>>714577895
>asking an AI
No wonder you people make these retarded analogies.

>>714545498
fippy bippy

>>714578057
>It's not entitlement to control what you own.
Then why are they taking something I own away from me? I bought the game. Not a limited license to use their servers, I purchase a copy of the game. They took away access to the product I paid them for.
I'm curious how my rights of ownership are superceded by theirs even though I bought this thing and therefore OWN it in perpetuity.

>>714577895
Did you just ask Chat GPT if water is food instead of just googling it and finding the correct answer? Because even in the EU it's regulated as a food.

>>714578057
Because the FOMO and artificial scarcity, as the words say, are intentionally made, and not limited by physical limits. That is the whole point, these scarcity doesn't exist, you can copy digital goods idnefinetly, so why can't we? The company has the right to keep their property, make new or or profit from it alone, but beyond that, these limtiations have no place. What reason do you even have to forbid people from using stuff they already paid for? IF you're admitting that you're abandoning it and is no longer your responsability, then what's the problem with allowing me to continue it privately?

That companies created a fake enviroment to profit on, even though we know they can profit without it anyway.

>>714578261
Being regulated under food safety doesn't make it food, you low IQ subhuman retard. Literally just google "is water considered food?" and it will explicitly point out that for the sake of food safety it is sometimes classified under food but generally isn't otherwise because it doesn't have any calories.

>>714578239
>Then why are they taking something I own away from me? I bought the game. Not a limited license to use their servers
You bought a game with DRM that was advertised as having drm and could be shut down. You're not having anything taken away from you that you shouldn't have known about had you just looked before you leaped.
>I'm curious how my rights of ownership are superceded by theirs even though I bought this thing and therefore OWN it in perpetuity.
Their rights supersede yours because they own the property, that's how copyright works. Every piece of media sold is a license, book, game, dvd etc

>>714578261
>ethanol is food

>>714578261
>Uranium is food because there are food safety regulations for it

>>714578385
>Literally just google "is water considered food?" and it will explicitly point out that for the sake of food safety it is sometimes classified under food but generally isn't otherwise because it doesn't have any calories.
Anon, the Google AI summary does that because it takes from incorrect quora answers not because it's actually true.

>>714578523
NTA but that's literally because there are trace amounts in a ton of fucking food.

"Live service" is not a genre. It's a business model.

It's like someone saying "we're killing the streaming genre". No one can be that stupid on accident, you have to be that stupid on purpose.

>>714576594
>serious question, why would you ever make a live service game as an indie developer?
Because you're retarded, trying to launder money, or took the "suicide" from "economical suicide" too literally.

Where's this energy against things like data collection and gathering, and digital game ownership in general?
Why isn't people fighting to push Valve to allow things like trading your games with other people, for instance? People have thousands of dollars spent on shit that can just disappear one day. They can't legally sell their accounts. Some games on Steam are DRM free, but most of them aren't. What about all those surveys? Why are they allowed to fuck with your system files? Hell, if you're going to be protected from this, why shouldn't you be protected from also playing a game that directly shoves a dick up your system kernel's ass just so you don't do anything funny? Or your right to play the game is taken away because you said a big N ono word or were a little toxic? Extend this campaign to solve that problem. These are not any more justifiable than taking the games out of service on a whim. If you're really worried about ownership, you should be really against the concept of cloud gaming because there is no ounce of control in there, you don't even get to keep game files in your hands.

>>714578762
SKG is a pro corporation campaign.
It's basically another means of manipulating consumers by giving them a false sense of security while they send off pajeet shills to demoralise people into thinking not buying doesn't work or that it doesn't affect you if you don't buy.

>>714578762
the difference is that if you try to do that, the entire software industry will come and lobby at the EU to make sure that nothing like that ever get passed.

skg is attempting a much less threatening approach to not wake up the bear of saying "nothing changes with copyright laws, just give us a way to run the game ourself after a company stops profiting form it"

>>714578457
>You bought a game
Yes, thank you. I bought a game, not a limited license to play, I bought A GAME. And I own it now, in perpetuity.
>Their rights supersede yours because they own the property,
So if a car is sold, the company that sold it can take your car from you at all times because they own it? See how that doesn't work? Because you bought it so you own the property?
>Every piece of media sold is a license, book, game, dvd etc
Wrong. A book is a PHYSICAL OBJECT. The publisher can't come into my house and take the book away from me, because I bought it and now I own it. It is mine in perpetuity, not for a limited time.

>>714553517
fractured space