Thread 714631320

Now that the dust has settled, is Fallout really pro-communist, anti-capitalist like all the "media literacy" types claimed? Why or why not?

>>714631320 (OP)
It's neither. Stop thinking in strictly binary terms you silly mutt.

>>714631320 (OP)
fallout isn't a critique of capitalism, it's a critique of imperialism (which is intrinsically linked to capitalism but not the central focus)

>>714631685
>imperialism is intrinsically linked to capitalism
>communist china also forcibly annexed most of asia in the lore
>the master and caesar's collectivist armies and goals

Neither. Tim Cain is right. It’s not some political critique. Watch the Fallout Classic Revisited where Tim Cain tells you what Fallout really is.
It’s just Wasteland but heavily influenced by 1950s sci-fi shit. It was never that deep. Never listen to twitterfags and redditors

>>714631320 (OP)
just watch the latest trailer for the outer worlds 2 and tell me boyarsky and cain aren't the prime example of the whole mark fisher capitalism critiquing itself thing

>>714631880
This. Why retards ever thought Gen-Xers and boomers would have a positive opinion on history's dumbest ideology is beyond me.

everyone with a brain knows capitalism is bad
sorry burgers

>>714631320 (OP)
tim was right, for once

>>714631320 (OP)
capitalism bad messaging comes from bethesdas sloppy entries, simply because it's the lowest hanging fruit in the neo50s aesthetic they frame everything in l, they're incredibly lazy

>>714631320 (OP)
No, it's just a game.

>>714631880
A fag and unironic socialist he may be, even J Sawyer said that the reason House has his wipe out the BoS quest is because the team was worried that he, basically capitalism incarnate, came off as being too clear cut of a good guy compared to the NCR and Legion, so they wanted to make him morally grey.

That makes me think that despite the screeching of media literacy redditors they did not in fact intend FNV to be a wankfest for socialism.

there is criticism of capitalism within fallout but it is obviously not the overarching point of the series to the point of capitalism being the primary cause of the war as the show implies

>>714631320 (OP)
No, the concept of rich people paying to survive in fallout shelters is just a coincidence. So is all the Consumer Republic advertising preceding a war over dwindling resources
It's not the main point, but there are critiques of capitalism within the setting. Kind of like how cyberpunk settings do it

>>714632207
They also criticize communism, at least Communist China.
>china fired the first nukes
>fev project was only started because china was attacking us civilian populations with bioweapons
>even betheshit has the chinese ghouls be psychos who shoot you on sight and they intended to kill their own loyal spy rather than have to reward him for success

>>714632168
I always took New Vegas to be a support for libertarianism.
Anytime there's any authority shown, it's always corrupt, evil, or incompetent.

>>714631320 (OP)
I never got why Redditors hate capitalism so much. Their entire identity is based around consumerism. The state isn’t going to manufacture funko pops and non-educational cartoons.

>>714632301
>rich people paying to survive in fallout shelters is just a coincidence. So is all the Consumer Republic advertising preceding a war over dwindling resources
That's a critique of consumerism and corporatism more than capitalism. If anything the games are very favorable to the classic definition of capitalists (the traders/settlers working and profiting from their effort). Then you have Mr. House who shows that even among the old corporate types not every single one of them was malicious.

>>714632168
When asked what he would do differently in Fallout New Vegas Sawyer has repeated time and time again that he regrets not being able to properly flesh out Legion to the point that they have arguments for choosing them and it's not just the evil sexist slaver faction.

Meanwhile Chris Avellone le based oldhead RPG writer has said the opposite, that they're so cruel that they can never be a serious choice. Sawyer just wanted to make a fun setting with fun hypotheticals to think about

>>714632307
they never outright state that china fired first which is to the setting's credit and yet another reason that implying american capitalists are responsible for the war is dumb. stop revealing it it's a bad idea

>>714631320 (OP)
I liked the world building, but Bethesda nor Amazon don't seem interested in it.

>>714631320 (OP)
taking place in a capitalist country, and having the pre-war countries do bad things, means that inherently there will be storylines that critique the capitalists.
Only retard chanchuds could find this insulting.

Showing ANYTHING pre-war is wrong.
Cain originally had lore for pre-war shit in the original game. He cut nearly all of it.
The lesson being, what happened pre-war doesn't fucking matter. The survivors don't care who was winning the war or who fired first. The world got nuked, and they're more concerned with surviving to next year.
Anytime you do anything pre-war you're going against that message.

>>714632468
>they never outright state that china fired first
They do in FO2. I mean granted you could say that President Richardson is lying, but the PC has no idea what China or the Great War even were so there's really no reason for him to lie about it to win favor for the Enclave.

fallout has gone so far off the rails than none of this even matters, it's not a franchise worthy of serious discussion

>>714632340
Between Sawyer's outdoorsiness, affinity for guns and the clear favorability the followers of the apocalypse get in NV you get a sense that the developers have sympathy for ancomm/libertarian left beliefs but without getting too overtly over-the-head biased about it. the postgame yes man ending used to have freeside in flames without a central authority ruling over it.

>>714632340
The problem is that libertarianism in the Fallout universe is one of the most retarded options, because you're talking about a post-apocalyptic world where almost every stretch of the country is in dire need of government and repopulation efforts. Anyone left alone to their own devices usually ends up being the boss of an abandoned house/factory/sewer/vault who has spent their days defiling corpses or torturing prisoners or fucking wild animals. Fallout is meant to portray a doomed world, because social structure is mandatory for getting things back in order but everyone keeps splintering off into their own factions.

>>714632468
the tv show leaning further into explaining the actual bombing is the worst thing they could do.

>>714632414
>avellone
Responsible for Lonesome "soapbox" Road and Old World "reddit" Blues. Grossly overrated. Just because he's got more reasonable political views than Sawyer doesn't make him a better writer. Quite the opposite.

>>714632595
>followers
Redditards only bring them up as the favorites when in reality at least according to Sawyer the team's favorite side was House. And in the Followers endings it's said they give away too much shit and get overwhelmed trying to accomplish anything.

>>714632538
Richardson is lost in the Enclave's sauce, he sells the idea that he's been brainwashed by the doctrine of the the faction he's lording over pretty thoroughly imo, he doesn't lie but that doesn't mean what he's saying is true

>>714632584
Fallout is like discussing the Roman Empire. It's fun for nostalgia, but it can never come back in full glory. All that's left are skinwalkers and pretenders.

Unrestrained, unregulated, subsidized, privileged and protected corporatism is bad

>>714632617
I can't believe people still defend having all the evil capitalists literally having a "Meanwhile, at the Legion of Doom" meeting about nuking the world.
>You're just mad they criticized capitalism!
No, I'm mad they took a plot from the Super Friends.

>>714632721
They probably wanted to make everything morally grey, but all of the major factions tend to engage in extreme and difficult to justify violence like House and the NCR with the BoS and Kings and Caesar being unfinished to the point where they're basically just evil raiders. Followers don't really do anything wrong and the things they do that are wrong are all motivated by good intentions and not spite and callous cruelty like House ordering a cleansing of one or two groups because he doesn't like them personally

>>714632817
Milennial writing at its finest

>>714632817
I hdan't even thought about how stupid their actual meeting scenario was, I just hated the spoken dialogue.
You're right it was literally the legion of doom. And not even in a Big Mt. funny way.

>>714632817
FNV always had wokies in its fanbase, but I noticed the whole "media literacy"/"fallout is pro communist" shit only started happening en masse after the show came out. Then after Cain, Avellone, and Emil all said that wasn't true, they all shut up about it. Makes me wonder if it was some weird botted astroturf to defend the show.

>>714631320 (OP)
No you fucking retard. Fallout is anti-war if anything. Its repeatedly shoved in your face that human nature inevitably results in conflict as a central theme to the series.

>>714632852
To be fair to the House-Kings bit, he only kills them because they rebel against him, and they then refuse to leave Freeside and willingly fight him to the death.

>>714631320 (OP)
none. you are stupid OP. stupid binary thread stupid person made it.

Fallout is a shit series written by a fag
For trannies
>But new veg-
New Vegas is woke trash loved by trannies
Your entire fandom is infested with DSPs,Furries and trannies and faggots
>war and peace sized pony fiction of the series
Kill yourselves.

>>714633558
What sucks is you're right.

>>714632646
No, all the other stuff he wrote makes him a far better writer.
Sawyer is responsible for le african-american venetian republics and Pallegina for that matter.

If anything Fallout has critiques of consumerism, which are two very different things than a broad theme of CAPITALISM BAD.
The main theming is WAR BAD, capitalism has no connection to how the war started or how the world functions afterwards. Resource wars aren't exclusively due to capitalistic ventures and if anything the economy of Fallout 1 and 2 is pretty damn good and it's very capitalistic.

They never recovered from it.

Fallout is a clear ripoff of A Boy and His Dog. I don't know why Ellison didn't sue when he sued a million other people.

>>714631320 (OP)
>the only alternative to late stage capitalism is communist dictatorship
fuck off evil

>>714631685
Capitalists invented empires.

I've always believed trying to frame Fallout's themes as a political statement was silly.
For sure you can see some things in the background involving politics but it's not exactly the main focus. The whole idea of Fallout was that pre-war America was gone, the survivors don't know exactly what that pre-war society was like, they're just living in the hollowed out corpse of that world.
>There is an expression in the Wasteland: "Old World Blues."
>"It refers to those so obsessed with the past they can't see the present, much less the future, for what it is."
Fallout seems to have lost that concept over the years unfortunately, when was the last time there were tribals even?

Starship Troopers
>dude if you agree with the humans you're a heckin nazi and missed the point

Fallout
>anyone can interpret art in their own way dude, fuck capitalism

>>714634167
Yes, I too remember when Alexander used the Invisible Hand to conquer the known world, and when Octavian declared himself Princeps and was renamed Adamsmithgustus Caesar

>>714631320 (OP)
It's just a fucking game. Imagine trying to find a deeper meaning on fucking fallout, or even caring about it in the first place. Absolutely pathetic.

>>714634270
>reddit: fallout was always about anti-capitalism and pro-communism
>fans of fallout: no it wasn't
>reddit: media literacy
>creators of fallout: it actually wasn't
>reddit: death of the author

>>714631320 (OP)
>is Fallout really pro-communist, anti-capitalist
I don't care.

>>714634225
It is silly because it’s just retards projecting their retarded ideas onto something that was just a Wasteland copycat made by a small company on the verge of bankruptcy

>>714634225
>Fallout seems to have lost that concept over the years unfortunately
I mean the concept of Fallout was already lost when they did shit Tactics and BoS. It’s a miracle that New Vegas exists

>>714631994
sure buddy go live in the forest and rob campers for sustenance.

>>714634570
>Wasteland copycat
No argument there. Sure is nice to have two cakes though eh?
>>714634720
I'd say the concept of Fallout was already lost during Fallout 2's development. While there are some good parts there sure is a lot of random bullshit which really takes you out of the experience as opposed to Fallout 1 playing it straight.

>>714631685
Fallout is an about conflict (war), it critiques certain ideas but only in so far as they are involve in conflict.

>>714634720
>>714634983
I'd go as far to say the concept was lost at the end of FO1. Before you meet the Master a bunch of really goofy and totally unexplained magical psychic bullshit happens.

>>714635095
all the vault co branded bullshit, and particularly nukacola, is clearly poking fun at consumerism and, in particular, the nuclear age in the 50s and 60s

>>714635135
>really goofy and totally unexplained magical psychic bullshit
I'm mixed on the idea of Psykers. Seems to be more a holdover from when Fallout was originally a tabletop and they wanted to include "magic".
I think if done right and not put directly into focus the concept of Psykers can be interesting, Fallout New Vegas had the Forecaster which for a lot of players is easily missable.

>>714635135
F1 could have gone goofier. The retail game might actually be its most toned down form.

>>714635361
If Fallout wanted to do psykers then the player should at least have some access to it. Underrail and System Shock 2 have psionics

>>714635361
I unironically think it was just a lazy 40k reference. About the time FO1 came out 40k was spiking in popularity.

>>714634394
I hate these death of the author type faggots. Not only because Barthes was a commie pedo fag (average 60s french philosopher) but because they only apply this theory to themselves.
If you get the « wrong» understanding of a work of art, they’ll be the first to point out what the author intended

>>714635297
That is secondary to the core theme of conflict. It just goes to create the tone and make it clear who were facing off against each other during the war. As well it is also used as a sort of reminder of the past, kind of like statue of liberty being shown in Planet of the Rapes. Ruin and scrap of what once was the only remnant, yet even as it is gone war endures.

>>714634983
>I'd say the concept of Fallout was already lost during Fallout 2's development
Facts. Too many irl weapons, quips, and a whole bunch of shit that didn’t fit the original aesthetic

>>714635416
>"As for the Burrow, this location was written by an early designer associated with the project. While it was well written, I felt that its content was not appropriate to our Fallout universe, mainly based on its style and feel in the game and not on its artistic merit. So I did not approve its addition to the game".
>Quote from Tim Cain
Gee seems like Tim Cain really was the only person who tried to keep Fallout "Fallout" and it's no wonder he left after Fallout 2 jumped the shark.

>>714635542
That's the hypocritical part, yeah. Their interpretation = always correct no matter what. If you disagree you're media illiterate and if the creator disagrees then death of the author applies. You're not allowed to have your own interpretation, but they are. It's cretinous bullshit.

>>714635597
fax

Capitalism bad

i am fully convinced that reddit types were tricked into being 'anti-capitalist' (or, appearing that way, seeing as they have no real convictions)

because it makes others who are genuinely anti-capitalist look bad. nobody with any sense wants to be associated with fags and commies. it benefits the capitalists to have all of their opponents dragged down by that filth.

>>714635485
I agree with this, probably shouldn't be obvious to the player how they attain Psyker abilities but considering that FEV can do anything when the plot demands it having some psy-powers would be neat.
Hell, the SPECIAL system, Perks and Traits are practically Psyker powers already are they not?

>>714635648
I don't know what he expected when he wanted to do a Wasteland successor. The game with combat nuns.

>>714635992
Fallout felt like it was supposed to be a more serious version of Wasteland, which they bungled with 2 but sorta-kinda got back to with Tactics, 3, and NV. Then 4 and especially 76 brought it back to wacky parodyland.

>>714635992
>written by an early designer associated with the project
There's your answer. Simply the concept had changed from being a direct Wasteland successor.

>>714634983
Yeah kinda, Fallout 2 was a mess but it did do some things right that Tactics and BoS just didn’t
I feel like New Vegas was a better execution of what Fallout 2 was aiming for. A more developed wasteland but with a consistent tone

>>714635941
>or, appearing that way, seeing as they have no real convictions
This is it
It's trendy and makes you look "intelligent" but never have to put actual effort and just get easy validation despite barely know or understanding terms like Capitalism, Socialism or Communism beyond "thing I like is X and thing I don't like is Y"

>>714631685
>imperialism (which is intrinsically linked to capitalism

>>714635941
A lot of them are american commies so they don’t really have an experience with trying anything but capitalism. They’re only communist because «America bad»
From them you can hear some stuff like «capitalism is inherently racist and sexist», they don’t really have an idea of what they’re talking about

>>714636074
>sorta-kinda got back to with Tactics, 3
Lmao

>>714635597
>>714636091
It's funny because while I am a Fallout 1 purist I like the aesthetics of both 2 and Tactics.
Felt like a natural evolution of post-post-nuclear society to have larger bands of either Raiders or Mercenaries fighting over the scraps on the decaying metropolises.
Fallout 2 introducing more modern firearms with their own twist on it was cool, supports the idea that technology didn't exactly stagnate in that universe but instead took a slightly different path. A idea that was thrown out with 3 and 4 onwards.

TLDR: Wastelanders driving around in Hummers and doing warfare is cool.

>>714636083
Only to Cain it sounds like, rest of interplay must have not gotten the memo. even Fallout 1 was never played as straight as say Metro 2033 since it's still a game with Mr Handy robots, Nuka-Cola, the gun from Blade Runner, Psykers, Mad Max references, etc.

>>714634728
Replace forest with the hood and it's capitalism

>>714636723
The lack of cars in Fallout always rubbed me the wrong way. Sure fuel might be scarce but anyone with half a brain would try to make them working again due to the advantage they give
New Vegas got around it by telling they’re more common in California and that the Mojave is more backwater but Bethesda totally gave up on the idea

>>714631320 (OP)
The Communists fired the bombs first.
It's not a critique of either Communism and Capitalism, it's a remark about the nature of humanity and how we're intrinsically linked to war, the consumption of resources, and ultimately self-destructive behavior.

>>714637314
>>714636723
I figured it was technical limitations. Fallout Mad Max is a no brainer.

>>714636867
90% of Fallout is a mix between A boy and his dog and Mad Max. A boy and his dog even had the 50s Vaults

>>714637314
It's purely from laziness from bethesda, and maybe some difficulty being a first person game now, though they could use motorcycles instead.

>>714637314
>>714637474
It was technical limitations. There were working vehicles as far back as Fallout 2, not just the Highwayman as there's multiple NPCs who not only have knowledge of what a car is but how to work on them.
Plenty of trucks sitting around in New Vegas as well, we just don't see them move because of technical limitations.

>>714631685
for you. For me it's a 6-star wanted level simulator featuring radiation.
I'm unironically Patrick Bateman in every fallout game but 4

>>714636723
>Fallout 2 introducing more modern firearms with their own twist on it was cool
>with their own twist on it was cool
There was no twist. They literally just copy & pasted actual irl guns into the game. The same goes for Tactics
>I like the aesthetics of both 2 and Tactics
To each their own, I suppose. The aesthetic didnt feel atompunk to me. It felt more like generic sci-fi but post apoc

>>714637474
I think more cars are meant to be implied, at least in 2 as there's mechanic or garages around the place
MCA talks about there being sort of low tech pre war cars in the fallout bible

fallout isn't a critique of anything, why do people keep thinking this
the "message" of the game is simple and it can be summed up as "war is as natural to humans as breathing" since retards are too simple to understand "war never changes" no matter how much they try to dress it up

>>714637825
Fallout gets over analyzed by pseuds because we need a way to critique todd and his lack of farms.

What would YOUR ideal Fallout game be like anon?

>>714638109
I kinda just want an HD version of the old titles with the balancing fixed up. Make it so that the skills and stats are more in equilibrium. Also I liked the factional politics of NV and F2 so more of that while also maybe bringing the horror of F1 back.

>>714638242
Forgot pic, remasters would also be cool.

>>714638109
2 but every location is on par with reno and vault city quality wise
maybe north of NCR focused on different tribes in the PNW and how they interact with NCR
give me the rebalanced skills of fallout sonora too

>>714638109
Give me the different factions and interesting locations of Fallout 2 with the tone consistency of Fallout 1 and I’ll be a happy man

>>714638487
Are you literally me?
>>714638109
Out of nowhere, Todd & Emil remove the TV show and all the Fallout games except Fallout 1 from canon. Then, they make a proper Fallout 2 by improving upon the footsteps of Fallout 1

>>714631685
A specific manner of profit-driven colonialism done by the British Empire and the Netherlands is driven by capitalism. Various forms of imperialism has been done by every ideology with the power to do imperialism.

Communism is incredible brain rot because of the virtue of being born in the 1800s. If people were taught about the Victorian period properly, they could put this ideology into context much better. It's as outdated as the white man's burden. Context has changed.

>>714638109
I've made this pic to answer this question everytime it pops up and what should've been Fallout 4

>>714638838
>Are you literally me?
Anons replies basically all say the same thing. Tone of F1 + politics of F2. Bethesda has an easy answer to please us right now but they'd rather make more son and dad stories.

>>714631685
>imperialism is intrinsically linked to capitalism
only in my wildest dreams

>>714632817
>there's a lot of money to be made in the end of the world
no, I'm mad they made every character in there pants-on-head retarded to the point that they thought destroying world would bring them profit. I'm also mad that everyone still praised the shows writing despite almost every character as well as most scenes being retarded if you payed attention in the slightest.
the main character basically gets raped in the first episode and the show doesn't even mention it despite it being something that should specifically heavily weigh on her with how she was shown to be in the first episode. Somehow nobody realizes this.

>>714638998
>tone of F1
You want to get lost not knowing what the fuck to do in a game where you can die to the first mob?

>>714639142
>He didn't stop by Shady Sands
I'm sorry you got lost anon but I would like the lack of handholding vault tutorials yes.

>>714638109
>Jagged Alliance Combat
>Fallout New Vegas quest design
>Fallout 1 tone
>Takes place in Texas
>Give it some random subtitle, create new factions so it doesn't have the baggage from the previous games.

>>714631685
All nation-building is linked to imperialism. It is in fact, its very goal to grow into one.

>>714637703
>in every fallout game but 4
Why not 4?

>>714634570
werent some of the wasteland devs people who worked on fallout? I thought fallout was made specifically because some of the wasteland devs lost the rights to wasteland.

>>714639237
>uh oh looks like you just sprayed the living shit out of your companion and now he's dead
>didn't level Guns? Fuck you
>didn't level Speech? Fuck you
>didn't level Lockpicking? Fuck you
Cool game, anon

>>714639242
>create new factions so it doesn't have the baggage from the previous games
But what about shoving the Brotherhood in for the... Actually has there been a SINGLE Fallout game that doesn't feature the Brotherhood? Is it a mandate they need the power armor on the cover or what. Even 76 which takes place 20 years after the war and on the other side of the country managed to cram not only the Brotherhood but Enclave into it's setting.

>>714639324
I also want it to be balanced. I'm not pretending Fallout 1 is flawless. That's the biggest sin against the first game that nearly every sequel improved on, broken skills and shit companions.

>>714639242
>Jagged Alliance combat
I'd rather have Silent Storm.

>>714639324
you dont even lose an hour to catch up if you, for some retard reason, didn't level guns.

>>714631320 (OP)
You retardos really latch onto random twitter talking points for years, huh.

>>714639142
>game where you can die to the first mob?
You have to make a pretty bad character to get killed by rats
Fallout 2 travel encounters is worse. You’re constantly harassed if you don’t get a car asap. Fairly accurate depiction of California in fact

>>714639324
>Didn't read the manual or use your brain? Fuck you
Yeah, filtered.

>>714631320 (OP)
Fallout is communist propaganda just like disco Elysium

>>714639507
>manuals
>in this day and age
wat

A Boy and His Dog was basically just anarchist propaganda if I remember right.

>>714639428
76 has to have the worst writing i've seen in any sequel. Let alone the complete retard idea of having the entire story presented on audiotapes.

A post apocalypse plot (fallout), which is a second post apocalypse (scorched and first vault leavers) when the entire fucking premise of the games marketing was you would be the first gen to leave the vault.

Actual fucking morons.

>>714639542
Only if you believe every critique about nation-states is anarchist.

>>714639535
The game released in 1997 anon. You can't be this dense right?

>>714639428
Fallout 2 somewhat. The brotherhood is there but they're really sidelined for the NCR, Shi, and Enclave.

>>714639428
You could easily have power armor on the cover without the BoS.
>Tribals raided a military base
>They're now the most powerful faction, easily run the entire region. Their leaders wear barely working armor, which is still better than anything else.

>>714639507
You want a game that filters you, play something made by Iron Tower. Fallout hasn't filtered anyone since arguably Brotherhood of Steel.

>>714639624
Much like New Vegas then. I'm still surprised by how many people manage to miss the Brotherhood bunker until someone like Mr. House tells the player they exist.

Its also a lgbtq propaganda that normalise men sucking another men's cock

>>714639709
I don't think F2 and NV wanted to focus on them at all but with F2 they had to answer the question and NV was probably asked by Bethesda to include them

>>714631320 (OP)
Niggers in the middle would never lend their neighbor their Nintendo switch

>>714639709
Veronica introduced me to them my first go.
Which is too bad, it made me not hate them enough. The quest you get if you wander in there would have made me seethe at them.

>>714639542
The book or the movie ?
In the movie, the Vault sucks a lot but the outside world is pure hell. The first bits of the movie shows how common it is for a woman to being raped to death by raiders

>>714639665
How have they still not done this image as a cover yet? Even as someone that likes the Advanced Power Armor, it would have been a better cover.

>>714639665
So the Legion?

>>714639665
Easily indeed. If nothing else Fallout 4 having "Raider Power Armor" was a neat idea.
Not the first time the idea of either raiders or tribals scavenging military bases has been done in the series, see the White Legs or if I remember correctly The Ciphers were founded by pre-war scientists and military personnel.

>>714639903
Yeah, sure.
Legion was a cool concept ruined by cutting all their content. I wouldn't mind another go at 'cold, cruel, but effective and safe'.

>>714639902
Actually Tim Cain did want that as the Fallout 2 box art.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STbUQVbQvQE

The larger problem is that some people are unable to enjoy genre slop for what it is. Fallout 1 grew from adventures with time travelling and dinosaurs and didn't really "grow" past that. Fundamentally, the whole game is about saving your village by getting a practically magical item that fixes everything along with defeating an evil sorcerer hellbent on conquering the world with the help of a knightly order. There's nothing wrong with it, too: you can enjoy things that do not have a real message behind them and just enjoy the adventure, which *is* the message here. However, there's a tendency to try to present slop as deeply compelling because people feel lacking if they don't fill themselves with perfect 10/10 philosophical masterpieces every time every day.
So you have this thing with people who have not really played either genre slop or 10/10 philosophical masterpieces, so they elevate Fallout 1 to this SCARY DESOLATE GUT-WRENCHING EXPERIENCE and then they watch a video essay on Fallout 2 which is actually closer to Fallout 1 than anything else and are surprised that it has more wacky shit by account of just having more to do than its predecessor. If anything, it's more serious on average: now there are actual political structures and groups which coordinate according to their interests (getting to eat, flooding the market with cheap drugs, avoiding irradiation from a nearby NPP, getting a cushy NCR senator seat). NV expanded on it, but funnily enough it is also less serious: compare the Vault City-NCR-New Reno quagmire to ancap robot armies-NCR-Rome LARPers or laidback yet still lurking FO2 Brotherhood to the Mojave chapter. The big takeaway thing is still not really there, because adventure is still the message. The biggest thing there is is "hubris doesn't get you anywhere" considering how this tribal guy can dismantle the US govt, several crime families and Mr. Bishop's wife and daughter by just not fucking around.

>>714640085
Yeah, the sheepshead isn't a bad cover since at least it's not another T-series and the Enclave play a major role. But the tribal one would have been so cool. It's fits the power armor motif but also highlights the post-apocalyptic vibe so much better. Not too late, especially if they did a Caesar's Legion game like what some anons are saying.

>Abolish IP
Intellectual property doesn't exist, ideas aren't scarce
>Corporatism bad
>EU bad
>Touhou good

>>714631880
/thread

>>714638109
Game taking place during the fall of the NCR where you play as a security force officer trying to barely keep the peace.
Only so we can go full circle and have a Fallout game become the first Mad Max.
Not going to happen now thanks to the show going 'dey got nuked, war never changes.'

>>714632414
>Chris Avellone le based oldhead RPG writer has said the opposite, that they're so cruel that they can never be a serious choice. Sawyer just wanted to make a fun setting with fun hypotheticals to think about
And he was correct. Fallout was never an "all choices matter/valid" game.

>>714631320 (OP)
Fallout is about whatever you want it to be about. Fallout is a set of narrative tools, the story conforms to the player, not the other way around.

>>714636236
Social media, especially reddit, has influenced people to be obsessed with validation. Reddit with its retarded upvote system ensures that quick and quippy comments about capitalism bad will get far more upvotes than longer autistic but correct arguments about why communism sucks, which will get hidden thanks to downvotes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIgjRNWj0J8
kino

>"War, war never changes"
>Ah yes, this must mean that humanity will keep nuking each other and isn't meant to be a statement that while times and people change there will still be conflict.
What the fuck were they thinking.

>>714640298
It really does feel like anons here over sell how dark and atmospheric Fallout 1 is. There's an NPC in the boneyard that had a nuka-cola addiction. There's no super deep commentary that Fallout ever went for. Deus Ex is more relevant to our society than Fallout ever would be and it's by complete accident.

>>714631320 (OP)
Fallout is about Transexuality

>>714639324
Jesus fucking christ learn to play a video game faggot i easily cracked the game by pickpocketing/savescumming guns off random guard events near junktown im not an old fag either my first fallout was 3 learn to play you little bitch or how about you just stop posting

>>714640428
I like this idea anon. I can picture the player being a local officer in some more rural territory of the NCR as the main state collapses. Eventually communication with the larger NCR dies down and you're forced to keep the peace or set out to figure out what happened.

>>714640404
Why hasn't anyone made a Touhou parody game of Fallout 1?

>>714640580
Fallout is pro-War and it implies it is necessary for anything to change.

>>714640298
>>714640637
I think the reason why people over sell the tone of Fallout 1 is because in comparison with the rest of the series it sure seems a hell of a lot darker.

It's anti war which is fundamentally anti Communist and anti islamic

>>714631320 (OP)
He was not the writer.

>>714640637
>It really does feel like anons here over sell how dark and atmospheric Fallout 1 is
It’s not like that. Fallout 1 was just more serious and retrofuture compared to the newer Fallouts that abandoned the original tone. In Fallout 1, there’s no superhero quests or becoming a fucking tribal pornstar. There’s little to no modern firearms or quips in Fallout 1. A lot of diehard FO1 fans miss that

A lot of diehard FO1 fans miss the original atmosphere*

>>714632817
KEK, that meeting was so stupid

>>714641068
modders get it right. pretty much all of the fallout 2 total conversion mods are some russian dude's ideal for a proper fallout 2

>>714638109
>>714638973
>>714640040
Based on Van Buren, the game takes place with you in a brutal Legion slave camp (the Legion having not adopted imprisonment) and whichever way you can escape the prison (becoming a gladiator, conducting a jailbreak, becoming the prison warden itself, etc.) The main faction you'd be dealing with would be the Legion and their interpolitics. Caesar is still alive but bed-ridden and kept secret as a council emerges to speak on his behalfNew Vegas is hinted to be Independent

>>714631320 (OP)
House is based, and I don't care if that's a boring take. An independent New Vegas is a clean and happy New Vegas.
>>714631685
retard

>>714632301
>Kind of like how cyberpunk settings do it
the critiques of capitalism aren't incidental in cyberpunk doe, they're like 50% of the genre (the other 50% is body modification and high tech low living)

>>714632301
It's as much as a critique of capitalism the same way Dawn of the Dead was a critique of consumerism.

>>714640903
Sure but it's because the content of every sequel eclipses the content of Fallout 1. Fallout 1 could be beat in a two day sitting. A lot of the jokes in the later games were there to break up what would be a 50 hour experience. Fallout 1 would also likely have more jokes if it were a bigger game in general, it's not completely humorless.
>>714641068
Because Fallout 1 is 1/3 the size of Fallout 2. New Reno alone is the content size of Junktown, Hub, and Boneyard put together. Now Fallout 2 did overdo it but you can also look at New Vegas for what the tone of Fallout 1 would be if it had more content. What side quest did Fallout 1 really even have? You'd get bored in Junktown if you weren't doing the Killian/Gizmo thing (of which one of the jokes being that Bobs Iguana bits is made of people) It just feels like /v/ is eager to nitpick every joke in the sequels while also ignoring the serious tone that those games have for a majority of the time as well.

What's the first thing you think about hearing this, anons?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZZKzJTGI9E

>>714642108
Needing to grab some Radaway and Rad-X. Oh, and playing chess with an AI.

>>714642108
I think about how the classic Brotherhood were massive isolationist cunts. And boy do I miss that aspect of their faction. Fallout 3 practically made fun of that by having the Brotherhood Outcasts.

>>714642108
Shooting inactive robots for the XP
Also the moments where I drop small guns to become a plasma caster chad

>>714641324
why always russian

>>714642380
For a time it was the right call, can't let some asshole raiders make good waste of a plasma gun because he needed to get back at a rival gang. That isolationism wouldn't lass long though if bigger fish came by, whether is superior tech like the Enclave or pure bodies like the NCR.

>>714642046
>Fallout 1 would also likely have more jokes if it were a bigger game in general, it's not completely humorless
>you can also look at New Vegas for what the tone of Fallout 1 would be if it had more content
Dude, I don’t think you understand what you’re posting. You argued that FO1 is mostly serious because it was smaller. Then, you just admitted that a larger Fallout game could maintain its consistent darker tone by claiming New Vegas does that. Just think a bit more before you post

>>714641324
>>714642540
russian and eastern euros love atomic stuff. its in their blood. they always make classic mods for the newer fallout games too. must be Cold War fever or something

>>714640903
I actually blame Mark Morgan. He's a great composer as evidenced by his work on Planescape and Wasteland 2 and it wasn't really his fault since it was Tim Cain's idea to make the OST a fan remix of an ambient album he had on his hands, but imagine having a town made of car parts and shit where there's this fat guy who is glued to his chair and runs a casino against a goody-two-shoes sheriff and the soundtrack to it feels like being stuck in a giant death factory making fucking white phosphorus artillery shells or something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqGXf4pOMBE
Or this one. This is a much better Enclave theme than any track afterwards conveying magnificence, danger and pride a thought-to-be extinct fallen empire military remnant would have and it was done for a bunch of charity nerds in LA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlSPkJ0zy7M
A lot of Fallout 2's new tracks have scaled this down to be more wistful or dangerous than outright hostile, and they did a good job. Compare Industrial Junk to Gold Slouch, for example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fjM9pKeEGw
>>714641324
It's great partially because the entirety of the game's design is made by a single Siberian guy who is assisted by an amazing 3D artist, a couple of editors and QA testers and some people who helped make a couple of videos + a composer who has become really good by Sonora. He absolutely knows what he wants to do and he's either a massive fan of genre slop or is very responsible when considering his influences. The design documents and references for Sonora are in open access and a ton of it is like referencing an obscure Mexican drama from the 1940s or a 5.7 1953 American movie about bikers and shit or some rare episode of the Twilight Zone. It's both very consistent for things it wants to show and is practically unreadable for a modern audience, which is great as showing a strange and alien is one of the biggest parts of delivering a good setting like this.

>>714642729
What I'm trying to say is that Fallout 1 is mostly serious in general, not completely serious like what I feel most anons push about it. It's not a doom and gloom game, and New Vegas I think is what Fallout 1 would look like if you extended the content. That's why I find it weird when it's pushed as this 100% atmospheric game and the sequels completely did a 180 by making it a jokefest, that's not the case. But maybe my point got lost in my original post.

>>714643035
>I actually blame Mark Morgan
Honestly this is a really great point. If one were to turn the OST off for both games which is hard to think about because the music is great, the tone of F1 and F2 would likely be on more even footing. Though not entirely, F2 did recycle a good portion of the original Fallout OST after all.

>>714632410
Are you trying to imply house was not malicious? Because his whole "I will rule over this planet of morons like an immortal god" thing seemed pretty malicious to me
That's part of why I shot him in the face (the other part was so I could seize control of his giant army of unstoppable killer robots)

>>714639108
>I'm mad they made every character in there pants-on-head retarded to the point that they thought destroying world would bring them profit.
You say that like such a thing is not literally happening right now as we speak
>hey guys should we take any steps at all to prevent the impending, catastrophic collapse of the global ecosystem we all depend upon for our very survival?
>nah fuck that shit quarter on quarter profit growth is more important

>>714643078
You’re definitely right. However, you took what we said too seriously. FO1 die hard fans know Fallout isn’t a super serious doom and gloom game. But, it had a consistent serious tone where it didn’t delve into vampire LARP raiders, Chinese kungfu masters, and whatever the fuck the OWB DLC was. If you compare the FO1 side quests to the newer Fallout games, you would see a HUGE difference in tone. What FO1fags like me are basically complaining about is that huge difference in tone so we want the atmosphere of FO1 again

>>714631685
In modern history sure. There countless examples of imperialistic societies not purely driven by the maximalization of profit and acquisition of resources.

>>714643035
I do feel the soundtrack fits the background themes of a desert wasteland though. Almost like the wind is blowing through the rebar skeletons of a dead city.
Also the soundtrack lead me to some good music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCDxCaCOKQA

>>714643623
>However, you took what we said too seriously.
because 90% of the time it's used as an attack as to why Fallout 1 is the greatest game ever made and Fallout 2, New Vegas, and 3 are complete garbage that should never be touched. You yourself likely don't do this but I have seen anons use this argument before. Sometimes it feels like they didn't even play the game they're defending. I remember one anon saying Molerats weren't in Fallout 1. I can agree that a good balance is needed but I get tired of people acting like the first game didn't have a Tardis special encounter or that OWB completely invalidates the tone of New Vegas.

>>714643623
>and whatever the fuck the OWB DLC was
OWB is seriously a shitstain on the rest of the game. It blows my mind that shit ever got greenlit.

>>714633558
>New Vegas is woke trash loved by trannies
>NOOOOOOOOO OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THING I CANT LIKE IT ANYMORE
Rent free.

>>714631320 (OP)
>capitalism bad
unregulated capitalism IS bad and isn't some pseud take. the whole reason fo universe is gone to shit is because unregulated free market. unregulated free market is the reason vault tec exists and can out veto governments, why money grubbers micromanage regular peoples lives. fallout's core message is entirely antithetical to capitalism.

>>714631320 (OP)
not really a stretch to believe that within the fallout universe governments, corporations and the military industrial complex take advantage of war, nuclear or not

>>714643982
>>714643623
fltered

>>714631685
>if we just had REAL communism we would never have war again
lol, lmao

>>714631685
>imperialism is capitalism
Anon?
You do realise capitalism prefers a borderless world, right?

>>714644868
They could take advantage of and predict it but it is a tad retarded to think they'd want it. Even if House liked being a 200 year old vegetable.

>>714642873
It's a fun thing, really. While "wandering lawman" movies are not foreign to Europe (which i consider USSR/Russia to be be a part of), no one entertained a nuclear war. No one just thought "eh, I could survive in a nuclear war as a vagabond or something, like a black comedy". It's a full-on YOU'RE GOING TO DIE IN PAIN DON'T EVEN THIN OTHERWISE thing. The UK and Russia are much more similar to each other with Threads/Dead Man's Letters to the US with A Boy and His Dog.

Where can I get Sonora and Olympus in english?

>>714643623
>If you compare the FO1 side quests to the newer Fallout games, you would see a HUGE difference in tone
I would certainly see a huge difference in quality. Fallout 1 side quests are boring in a fuck.

>>714643035
new reno's ambiance is one of the highlights of FO2 for me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0M7FAoK3fM

imagine being trapped in a dark post apoc city after your ride gets stolen when all you want is to leave as fast as possible

>>714645892
>imagine being trapped in a dark post apoc city after your ride gets stolen when all you want is to leave as fast as possible
So San Fransico irl?

>>714645736
Not to mention pure black and white.
There's a good guy, there's a bad guy. Who do you want to work with? The cop who want's to keep the law? Or the gangster who wants to kill the cop?
Future games at least added some grey morality.

>>714632307
>china fired first
Ambiguous but implied due to world lore always saying China was losing.
>bioweapons
I don't think any released Fallout game says that was China and not completely unexplained and completely forgotten about (along with FEV being something that only existed in 2 laboratories in California).
>kill their own loyal spy
That quest was fucking weird not just because "Why would the player character do this?". I remember being confused why the secret bunker was built under a house owned by a specific family but I can't remember why I thought that family shouldn't be Chinese sympathisers, especially when Fallout 3 already established that one food industry as being a Chinese ruse yet never had any spy plot quest attached to it which Point Lookout's quest would have mutually benefited with.

>>714645938
I always thought the best of the side content of Fallout 1 was the Mariposa base, It's always fun to explore and dismantle it. Not even Fallout 2s Sierra Army Depot would compare. But yeah The Hub especially could have used more quests.

>>714632852
>They probably wanted to make everything morally grey
I'm trying to think of how many ending slides in Fallout New Vegas are good, compared to how many are just "Well that sucks"

>>714643795
Oh yeah, I'm not implying that the OST is actually bad or anything. I've started listening to some similar ambience like Steve Roach's Dust to Dust or World's Edge myself. It's just this funky thing where the structure almost reads like a fairy tale (like Vault Dweller's diary in FO2's manual) yet it makes great effort to feel hostile.
Now that I think about it, deliberately or not, but Fallout does not have a "combat theme" like Arcanum or Planescape. Since most of the combat is actually done through random encounters, most of the time you're going to associate the combat with Desert Wind (or maybe Underground Troubles if you're in caves).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaRiY7WkMhw
It doesn't call you to combat, it doesn't have any "rhythm" to it, it does not goad you into confronting the dangers. It's just the default state of the world. It's a perfectly bare field, no grass, not a bush, nowhere to cover. It's the middle of a night and it's you and a Vault City patrol and a bunch of raiders throwing curses at everyone. A raider shoots a 10mm at you, misses, a patroller fires a burst, a raider explodes into gibs and falls down in a puddle of blood. Some guy gets critically wounded, tries to run away and you shoot him in the head and he follows his friends. It's over, you have a pile of corpses to loot and a patrolman says hello like nothing ever happened and he's somewhat right cause the wind's still whistling and blowing at you and you never feel like you've passed out of combat. It's a living.
Classic Fallout's combat never really felt slow to me and I guess that's kinda why. It's more about who gets to live and die today than triumphing over something.

>>714633558
>point out 76 has tranny flags in another thread
>trannies dogpile and say "Nuh uh! There's no LGBT in fallout!"

>>714646356
>Now that I think about it, deliberately or not, but Fallout does not have a "combat theme" like Arcanum or Planescape.
Thank god, Arcanums Combat theme almost ruins the somber mood everytime. It's not even good at getting you hyped for blood.

>>714645736
You prefer superheros, stealing the Declaration of Independence, talking deathclaws, and hubologists. Well, keep enjoying the taste of poop. Not everyone likes it though

>>714640637
>cram every conspiracy theory you can find into a single plotline
>accidentally predict the future
Really makes you think.

>>714634225
>the survivors don't know exactly what that pre-war society was like

>>714645938
Fallout 2 also had a lot of black and white conflicts. As Warlockracy said, it’s mostly a conflict between the good choice and the contrarian option.
Thing is, Fallout 2 has developed factions that bring more nuance to these conflicts. It also has a lot more neutral quests like the New Reno families

>>714646532
Haha, it's just a game about Area 51 bro, it's just a silly conspiracy game bro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b-bijO3uEw

>>714646356
Pretty good analysis on the lack of a proper combat theme anon. I completely agree with that. The lack of combat theme/desert wind being that theme does make you feel like no matter what you do the wasteland combat will remain the same even after you're gone. All that's left is the desert wind blowing across your bleached bones.
There's a good amount of remixes online that do tend to amp up the usual atmospheric soundtrack that I enjoy, not well suited to the gameplay but it's a nice iteration on something you've likely heard for a total of hours on end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_fKQfJTMlI

>>714646683
I wanna say there's more neutral quest in Fallout 1 as well but ironically I think that shade of grey purely comes from the Unity. Otherwise Gizmo is just a piece of shit as are most conflicts you find in Fallout 1.

>>714646086
The Mariposa is part of the main quest tho. If you kill the Master without blowing up the base, the Overseer will tell you to fuck off

>>714647078
Eh, it's debatable since it's not mandatory, but you are right in that it's meant to be a part of the main storyline. Otherwise the big sidequest really is the Killian/Gizmo conflict.

>>714639576
>Let alone the complete retard idea of having the entire story presented on audiotapes.
Did you not play after they added people?
The writing was mostly the same but now you're talking to the girlbosses and you can say something wacky to which the response is basically "Um, cringe!"
Half the dialogue options seem to be a literal "I'm BORED this is BORING" and I have no clue why a writer would include something like that nor would think "Maybe my writing should be more interesting...", especially when you complain "in-character"... you don't actually get to the quest faster and sometimes increase the amount of dialogue you have to sit and listen to.

>the entire fucking premise of the games marketing was you would be the first gen to leave the vault.
Yeah this part sucks shit. They shouldn't have said you're a loser who canonically was the LAST person to leave, seemingly AFTER all vault life support had ended two months ago or whatever the time gap was.
And then your overseer is a 10 minute hike away and still alive! And all her audio logs are her bitching about how sad she is!

>>714643293
I think a fair point of comparison is the OST to Fallout: Sonora made by Nobody's Nail Machine. By the time Sonora released, he had managed to nail down Mark Morgan's style for both Fallout and Fallout 2. I really love the variety he achieves here with the OSTs for Sonora and its DLC. Just a couple examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfXmiL_ds9k&list=OLAK5uy_kNXDKPF-evQ5yIgHIZTiO24RBxKKuzkA8&index=8
Army remnants on the edge of the world, outside of America, amassing forces, readying themselves for future expansion. The march is slow, irregular, but still presents danger. There is no threat for now. There may be a confrontation in the future. It is not for you to decide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pjvL_xn8mg&list=OLAK5uy_kNXDKPF-evQ5yIgHIZTiO24RBxKKuzkA8&index=11
People presenting themselves as the heroes of the land in spite of strict taxation. Much more organized, at the ready, in the middle of a fight. They believe that their cause is just. Of course, you can join them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXgx_0HoGjA&list=OLAK5uy_kNXDKPF-evQ5yIgHIZTiO24RBxKKuzkA8&index=10
A tribe of cannibals who have kidnapped one of your compatriots. Lots of bones and idols of a long-gone vault. Even children are active combatants. Nothing good can come from this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eiJiyeQk_8&list=OLAK5uy_kNXDKPF-evQ5yIgHIZTiO24RBxKKuzkA8&index=2
Your isolated home village, razed by bandits. As you help and get out, a wistful guitar reminds you that things will never be the same now. There's only one way and the way is out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWk8VOwSOy4&list=OLAK5uy_kNXDKPF-evQ5yIgHIZTiO24RBxKKuzkA8&index=13
A small town that introduces you to the world. Lots of things to do, people getting you to your side since you aren't dangerous but may be of help.
https://youtu.be/6rVVt59sPS8?si=gnq6X_yqvopKWz7h&t=521
YEAH!!!! MY OWN BIKE!!! WOO!!! YEAH!!! WOOHOO!!!

>>714646519
No I just prefer quests with interesting premise besides «kill the deathclaw(s)» or «choose between the sheriff and mob boss»
Despite all the silly shit, Fallout 2 still have more interesting side content than 1. Hell Klamath itself has more interesting content than any location in 1

>>714647160
It is mandatory tho ? You can’t get to the ending without blowing up Mariposa. The Overseer gives you two objectives: killing the leader of mutants and destroying the mutant base

>>714646873
Sky Moone is great, love their work. The Khans cover is nice, feels prickly and exotic but still reminds you that you're working with criminals right here. My favorite one is All-Clear Signal as it drops OST accuracy entirely and goes "we Half-Life now", but still manages to achieve this "dystopia which thinks it's superior but can back it up" feeling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKkjKsaWJT8

>>714647446
Not sure about Klamath, it's a tutorial town that's no different than Shady Sands, and even then Shady Sands had the better premise. But I can't deny that nothing in The Hub or Boneyard would compare to the amount of content of New Reno, NCR Shady Sands, or Vault City, each having a quest far more involved like working for the Wrights.
>>714647581
iirc Yes it is technically optional, you can b-line it straight to the Cathedral if you wanted to and completely ignore Mariposa. At least I recall doing that one game.

>>714646959
Kinda sad that they didn’t go with the ending where the Junktown can only florish under Gizmo
Then again, at not point the game even hints that Killian might be a bad leader
>>714647736
Yeah but Shady Sands has shit questing besides the Raider quest that you only get after some time. In Klamath you already had a more elaborated quest with the choice between Torr and the hillbillies. Sure the concept of Shady Sands is better but there’s not much to do there.


As for Mariposa, yeah I’m bit sure now. I generally beat the Master last. But anyway, it’s more of a part of the main quest than side content, even if it can be optional

Got to wonder what they were smoking when they made Brotherhood of Steel. It's pure 2000s edge-slop and I secretly admire it for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8_AeAADP6U
I still think the intro for the game was pretty good, overdone sure but does set the tone for a more action packed apocalyptic setting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w79fpRAIz4
I like the idea that the mod "Fallout New California" had where there was a raider clan that had their own pirate radio station of banned music from pre-war America. Feels fitting to have a near tribal group of raiders worship what would've been "satanic" before the bombs dropped.
https://youtu.be/ACdlPRaqTLk?t=556

>>714648349
If Brotherhood of Steel just embraced itself more as being an irrelevant spin-off I don't think anons would complain. It was just released at the wrong time when the fate of the IP was unknown. Kinda like when Nintendo dropped Federation Force.

>>714631320 (OP)
>Critique not being the point precludes making any meaningful statement
Ok bro, stay in school

>>714631320 (OP)
fallout isn't some cringe leftypol capitalism critique, yes, but that also doesn't mean emil's view of fallout as being "le quirky everyone is stuck in the 1950s and LARPs as a gumshoe or greaser" shit is correct either.

>>714648349
>I like the idea that the mod "Fallout New California" had where there was a raider clan that had their own pirate radio station of banned music from pre-war America
Kinda cool desu. The whole «people just stopped making any cultural change past the 1950s» was always kinda stupid. It’s more logical that the US enforced this culture as mandatory much later and that they banned all the other stuff
My headcanon is that the Chosen One drove his highwayman while listening to some ACDC holodisks he bought in New Reno

>>714648879
>It’s more logical that the US enforced this culture as mandatory much later and that they banned all the other stuff
That's kinda how I read it too, all the 50s aesthetics are purely the old world US as a ghost. A relic from another time.

>>714646519
>superheros
isn't that quest about two schizos pretending to be heroes from comics? you talk like they were actual superheroes

>>714648879
I like to think that the world map theme when driving the highwayman is meant to actually be diegetic. The radio in the car is still picking up long forgotten frequencies and through the crackle and hiss the Chosen One can hear music completely foreign to him.
>The drums in the track are tribal in nature because the Chosen One only has what he heard from his village as a frame of reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxn1sqAQ-c

>>714646458
I can see your point. It's strange since the combat music is both the location music for the Wheel Clan and has a callback in one of the endgame scenes. I have no idea how much of it is deliberate framing of your battle with Arronax and the journey to Vendigroth being foretold despite the prophecy never being valid in the first place and how much of it is the devs running out of time since the rest of the OST is pretty well-coordinated and thought out. Some tracks are foreboding enough to not be interrupted by the combat music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEnuVm_WyKw&list=PL747E3997A25A9FF6&index=16
I can also see why they added the track, though. Since Wilderness — a calm and tranquil thing that indicates that you're going somewhere, yet not indicated why — is the track that plays outside of known locations is the world map theme in general, it would also play during combat encounters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv95sMMEZnM&list=PL747E3997A25A9FF6&index=3
It's a great track, but this playing while three black bears are mauling you and your friend out of nowhere would be incredibly funny, which is how I think a conversation went when they thought about adding it.

>>714631320 (OP)
the chinese commies won

>>714632521
You can show prewar stuff, it just needs to be treated properly, like a completely disconnected era. Going through pre-war ruins or vaults should be akin to archeology, more like looking through some aztec temple ruins. The issue is bethesda games treat the post-apocalyptic era 200 years after the bombs dropped as a continuation of stupid 1950s cliches, when all that should have ended the second the bombs dropped.

>>714649151
The fact of the matter is the quest is corny as shit and doesn’t fit the atmosphere of the game. It’s not really that hard to figure out

I'm super-late to the party, so I apologize.

The Legion not having more quests in New Vegas works in their favor, in my opinion. If the Legion needs such little help from the Courier, then it shows just how hyper-competent the Legion is. The NCR, both from the number of quests available and the admission of citizens within the NCR (Boone, Cass, Hanlon, etc.), is consuming itself. House literally cannot move forward without a Joker activating the Bunker. Meanwhile,

>the Legion WILL blow up the monorail unless the Courier intervenes
>the Legion WILL take Camp (Forlorn) Hope unless the Courier intervenes
>the Legion WILL take Hoover Dam unless the Courier intervenes

and more. That, I think, speaks volumes more about how "morally gray" the Legion is than adding more quests for the Courier to do on their behalf. There is this engine of war that is totalitarian, identity-annihilating, dogmatic, and running on nothing but pure hatred for the other, and it's not only WORKING, it's SUCCESSFUL.

>>714645938
>Not to mention pure black and white.
>Killian vs Gizmo
Yeah but you side with Gizmo to get easy cash to start the game with and I'll pretend that you don't get a lot of guns to sell by looting all his guards, the best pistol in the game for players who intentionally aren't going with small guns in their build but haven't got a good weapon yet, and the earliest weapon trader that the quest probably affects prices for or something.
Then you get to Fallout 2 and it beats you over the head with black and white morality in half of it. Some of it reminds me of Fallout 3's side quests like the vampires where it beats you over the head with "This indoctrinating cult of queer culture which says cannibalism is um okay actually is for those with Lawful Good alignment and siding against it is for those with the Stupid Evil alignment who thought Dick Richardson was right, so you're gonna pick cannibalism over kicking the puppy and wearing a swastika armband, right?". The only nuance I remember is Vault City where if you decide you hate slavers and refuse to work with them or get yourself kicked out... you can't cure jet.

>>714648269
>at not point the game even hints that Killian might be a bad leader
Is this the alternate/original ending?
>With Gizmo out of the way, Killian enforces his brand of frontier justice on Junktown. The city remains orderly but small, as travelers steer away from his rigid sensibilities.
Is that a bad ending? It sounds like a happy town by Fallout standards, ideal by some morals. The canon ending is basically the same but doesn't say if Junktown remained the same size or not.
Gizmo's original(?) ending is unwarranted - it basically says he's a supreme benevolent entity who used the power of gambling to maky everyone happy, rich and famous, and (peacefully?) got rid of any drug dealers and criminals on the streets.

>>714649109
I loved how the classics pushed the pre-war stuff in the back. The only way you’re going to learn anything about how America was is from old holodisks
The people of the Wastes do not care. That shit is over, nobody’s pretending to be american. The only thing people will say about it is «good riddance»
The old world should not matter and the only faction that tries to bring it back are genocidal maniacs

>>714649489
>Is that a bad ending? It sounds like a happy town by Fallout standards
Compare it to Gizmo's cut ending
>Under Gizmo's leadership, Junktown becomes a trading center and resort, where people come from miles around to gamble, spend money and enjoy themselves in relative safety. Gizmo keeps the town prosperous but healthy, as he has no desire to injure his own affluence. The inhabitants of the town become wealthy and famous.
Still a safe town, but also economically prosperous.

>>714649414
>the quest is corny as shit and doesn’t fit the atmosphere of the game
The game? Fallout 3? It fits.
Fallout 2? Yeah it'd fit, you'd just have people asking why it isn't as out there as the magical super mutant or Modoc, its shitter, its chicken, and the long fingered mutants who steal children. It'd be the most grounded encounter in the game.
Fallout 1? NV? 4? Not a chance.

>>714649423
That's a valid point, but the issue isn't so much a lack of quests for the legion in and of itself, so much as just a lack of overall legion CONTENT altogether. That doesn't just mean legion quests, it means legion locations, legion NPCs, legion dialogue, legion companion, etc. It's underwhelming to just hear about supposed things about the legion (good or bad) without ever actually getting to see legion territory for yourself. all you get to see are a handful of their forward operating bases. Meanwhile with the NCR, you see a hell of a lot more of their bases in the mojave, as well as seeing not just military personnel and locations, but also civilian too. You get absolutely zero equivalent to this, except a single random-ass trader at the Fort who says legion trade routes are safe and that's it.

We really should've had at least a few locations on the other side of the colorado showing more of what legion territory was like. I get that legion content was cut, and that sucks, but they also did 4 DLCs. One of those DLCs could'v been in Arizona and fleshed out the Legion. But no, we couldn't even get that (and no, honest hearts doesn't count)

>>714649489
The point is it's grey. Gizmo is an objectively terrible person but he does bring lucrative opportunities to the town to help it grow. Kilian's law and duty will might slowly kill it despite being morally right. That's what it means to be grey, that there's benefits and consequences to what is apparently the right or wrong decision.

WHO CAREEEEEES????????????????????????

FALLOUT SUCKS

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS

>>714649414
>corny as shit and doesn’t fit the atmosphere of the game
just because it's corny it doesn't make it bad
it wouldn't fit FO1

>>714649768
Yeah, that's why I said I don't understand why people think Killian had a bad ending when it's just that Gizmo had a stupidly morally rewarding ending.
>>714649787
>might slowly kill it despite being morally right.
But neither original nor canon ending says that? It only reads like that because Gizmo makes it bigger.

>>714649489
>Is this the alternate/original ending?
Yeah, Tim Cain did a video about it. The playtesters didn't like it because the problems with Killian weren't foreshadowed enough which made it feel like the player was being punished for doing the "right" thing, and by that point they didn't have the time/budget to get the VAs back to record more dialog so they just made Killian the good guy.

>>714649489
The nuance of Fallout 2 comes from things that aren't obviously evil, like yeah of course slavery is going to be looked down on by anyone with a hint of moral conciseness and the Enclave are just taking an extreme measure to make sure they come out on top (like a certain 6 pointed star nation). The real nuance usually comes from the other factions like New Reno and it's near lawless nature causing gambling, drug, and prostitution problems but one of the families has their son become a victim of it and looking for change, or how Vault City has "not-slaves" that's used by the law to keep their city prosperous. Redding has the issue of these 3 greater factions looking to control the gold mines. I guess it's the difference between necessary evil and comically evil and Gizmo, especially after the ending retcon falls more under the latter.

>>714649538
Fallout 1/2
>"Oh this building? Not sure what it was built for... Or even when it was built, it might've just always been here. Does it matter? It has a roof and three walls."
Fallout 3/4
>"Yeah this was a DINER where people would EAT HOTDOGS before going to a BASEBALL game, anyways check out this PRISTINE 1950s SUIT I have."

It just seems Bethesda wants their apocalypse but stuck in a perpetual "it just happened so everyone still knows what America was" state.

>>714649489
Well the thing is they canned the good Gizmo ending because the quest in itself is too black and white. There was the idea of making it more difficult to choose who to side with but the quest itself doesn’t have that aspect. The bad Killian ending/Good Gizmo ending would have felt like a middle finger to all the players who picked the logical choice.


The quests in Fallout 2 are black and white but the factions aren’t. Vault City are slavers but they’re a also advanced enough to help the Wasteland. NCR might be the most morally good faction but they still do shady shit with New Reno.
Fallout 1 doesn’t have any factions really, Junktown, the Hub and and Adyum felt samey and the quest conflict were pretty generic «bad guy mob boss vs good guy sheriff» with Adytum having the «originality» have having the Regultators being the bad guys

>>714649783
On the one hand I understand that, but on the other not knowing what the Legion is really like beyond hearsay makes them both alien and intriguing. Everyone, both pro- and anti-Legion players, only have assumptions about what the Legion is actually like, and pick and choose what they can see to reinforce their personal biases. That's what makes them work.

The NCR has definitive vices and virtues that can be pointed at that make them work as a government. So, too, does House. All that can be said about the Legion is that they "hate women" and "endorse slavery", and we don't get to actually see the consequences of it. We just hear about the good and the bad, and even that is "I heard this from a guy who knows a guy", and that's wonderful.

>>714634367
capitalism is literally just trade you moron

>>714649251
Love the highwayman theme so much. It’s actually the first thing I listened while driving when I got a car IRL
>It's 106 miles to Arroyo, we've got a full fusion cell, half a pack of RadAway, it's midnight, and I'm wearing a 50-year-old Vault 13 jumpsuit. Let's hit it

>>714648349
Interplay saw their chance and went for it. Many video game publishers would do the exact same, like Ubisoft with Far Cry, pumping out slop that would not even sell a 100k copies.

>>714649489
>The only nuance I remember is Vault City where if you decide you hate slavers
the irony of calling them slavers when you complained about lack of moral greyness

>>714650185
The problem is that Todd was a fan of Fallout because he loved the whole «50s retrofuturism in postapo» thing. And he loved that so much, he ignored all the other stuff
Fallout 3 feels like a fan fiction made by a dumb teen who would have been bullied by NMA purists

>>714649423
We're only 250 posts in, it's fine. As you can see, I'm enjoying this thread a lot so far despite the premise.
I think a lot of the discourse surrounding the Legion largely stems between Obsidian being pressed both by the time constraints and the internal discussions on whether Legion should be a full-on villain of the game or not, while most players would see a joinable faction as either good or at least redeemable evil. Some Obsidian devs have probably regretted making it joinable altogether since it would make things more manageable scope-wise.
>>714648349
As someone who played it this year and even managed to do that stupid Vault Dweller fight on the arena while being woefully unprepared for it, the main issue with it is that it's fucking boring. It's not dreadfully boring enough to make you skip it, but it's just not a thing that makes you go "wow, i must go back to it!". I've never played Dark Alliance, but I sure do hope it's much better than this one. Maybe it also relies on having a friend to do stupid shit together, IDK. It was a painful 5/10. I wish my brain was more fried so I could fap to Dr. Vidya or Raider Matron or something.

>>714650674
That would have been fine if they just made another IP to do it. Like how Fallout itself wasn't going to be a true successor to Wasteland and is scorpitrons. Borderlands shows there's an audience for a non-serious post-apocalyptic setting. Bethesda has a bad habit of raping IP names for no reason, Prey also fell victim.

>>714650794
>That would have been fine if they just made another IP to do it
That would've been Apocalypse Road which was thrown out once they got the IP to do a Fallout game instead.

>>714635135
>>714635361
>>714635485
>>714635491
>>714635969
Anomalous cognition patterns and mental phenomena have been observable and studied since the Cold War. Studies done by institutions like SAIC and Stanford Research Institute where they not only figured out how to influence Shannon's entropy but had machines to measure it as early as 1994. Morphic Resonance by Rupert Sheldrake is just one book that covers the details. At this point stuff like ESP and psychokinesis is about as much science fiction as rocket technology or antimatter.

>>714650129
>nuance of Fallout 2 comes from things that aren't obviously evil
I disagree on the grounds that I can't recall any nuanced situations and almost all of them are written with very blatant moral cores and I say that as (a normal person) who disagrees with a lot of the morality shown by the writers who ran off to make their parts of the game in isolation without oversight.
>has their son become a victim of it and looking for change
Are you talking about the one who rapes <4Int <5End female PCs? Who you get +Karma for putting a bullet between his eyes?
He has an insane amount of dialogue and interactions, and a talking head... but he's a badguy who gloats about killing... was it a hundred or hundredS of slaves in his invention of jet and its ongoing perfection?
You don't even become a childkiller despite his age.
>Vault City needs slaves for prosperity
I don't think the game ever explains why they need slaves, just that they have them and it's shit for everyone. There's even a shanty town of sickly non-citizens that Vault City routinely enslaves, beats up, or both. I'd argue their prosperity is why they have them - Gecko is enslaved only if you increase Vault City's "prosperity" (power supply).
It felt like it was as underwritten as the reasoning why the NCR allows slavers to operate at its gate but also doesn't think it's a bad thing if its only major vigilante group murders the same slavers.
>Redding
I wish this was better written. Vault City automatically wins in vanilla if you fix Gecko's power (I think?), there is some implied logic to this when the stock broker satire ghoul says Vault City can get bigger if you conspire to increase Gecko's power output. There's no "If you cure jet, New Reno was the only thing between Redding and Vault City, so think about the pros and cons". The NCR choice is a good girl. The New Reno choice is a bad man who you are deliberately given a dialogue option to bait into a "I'll fucking kill you for that!" response.

>>714631320 (OP)
Mocking the caricatured failings of something does not need to mean that you are for or against something you propagandized niggercattle
Sometimes blue curtains are just blue curtains >>714631880

>>714650236
It helps making the faction more mysterious but it doesn’t help them as a main faction. New Vegas shows us what life is like under NCR, under House or in independence. But the Legion is just some invading army, you have no way of actually knowing what their rule will bring

>>714651202
>Are you talking about the one who rapes <4Int <5End female PCs? Who you get +Karma for putting a bullet between his eyes?
That's Myron who works for the Mordinos, I'm talking about the son of the Wrights who got radscorp poisoning. Like the other anon mentioned, it's usually more about the morally grey character of the factions rather than the quest themselves, though Redding lets you put chips in favor of said faction. And I'd at least say New Reno is more grey than the Legion is in NV.

>>714651202
Not him but
>Are you talking about the one who rapes 4Int <5End female PCs? Who you get +Karma for putting a bullet between his eyes?
That’s Myron, he was talking about the Wright kid murder quest
>I don't think the game ever explains why they need slaves
It does tho, they have fertility problems, they just can’t grow their own manpower.
>I wish this was better written. Vault City automatically wins in vanilla if you fix Gecko's power (I think?)
Nah the Vault City ending happens when you give the jet cure, no matter who you gave the chip to

>>714650189
> The nuance of Fallout 2 comes from things that aren't obviously evil
I wish I could pull out my own post which elaborated more on the interconnectivity of Fallout 2, but i can't find it in the archives and I'm too lazy to write it again, so I made this simple pic instead. Barring San Fran which doesn't really go anywhere and Modoc in which no one is interested in, I don't really feel like the amusement park argument is true. There are just a lot of actors and they all follow the "fuck you got mine" rhetoric because it's just what it is in the Wastes.

>>714651419
>>714651792
Alright then I never met Wright I don't think.
Yes I'd agree New Reno is more grey than the Legion is. I never understood legionfags when the entire game is saying "This is the villain".

>It does tho, they have fertility problems, they just can’t grow their own manpower.
They are infertile. They are just that one Star Trek episode. They can grow more whenever they want.
>when you give the jet cure
My mistake I misremembered.

>>714652382
>I never understood legionfags when the entire game is saying "This is the villain".
They're just Enclavefags that hate women, it's the same villian larp.

>>714652369
arroyo klamath and the den care about one another?

>>714652369
I actually like Modoc because of it being disconnected. Its a town the Chosen can truly make their own. And I find the premise of a dying farm town really fascinating, it's a very homely topic that tends to get ignored in favor of invading mutants or high tech plasma guns.

>>714652527
I think his map is saying that The Den has an effect on Klamath which has an effect on Arroyo. I'd imagine some of the Arroyo villagers have also been victim to The Dens slavery.

>>714631685
It's moreso humanity's natural tendency to wage war on itself and the cyclical nature of societies being formed around ideologies and then destroying each other when they inevitably collide with one another. This has been true since Fallout 1, the earliest encounter being when you reach Shady Sands and have to save Aradesh from the Khans.

>>714652527
Bitch of a stretch, yeah, but IIRC Klamath is one of the points in which caravans stay before departing for villages including Arroyo and Metzger buying a radio from Vic implies that there is at least some degree of communication/trade there. Vic also is the go-to guy when a tribal needs something and Metzger wants to listen to what the fuck the Enclave and New Reno are doing, so there is some agency out there as well.

>>714651186
>didnt mention Dean Radin

>>714652382
>I never understood legionfags when the entire game is saying "This is the villain".
Because legionfags are low IQ poltards. But if I had to root for a villain, yeah the legion is pretty kino
>They are infertile. They are just that one Star Trek episode. They can grow more whenever they want.
Can they ? They wouldn’t ask you for you sperm if it was the case. And there’s no kids in the city, which you can point out. Without natural way to gain manpower, slavery seems like a logical choice for xenophobes like them

>>714652369
Yeah while Fallout 2 has a problem of tonal consistency, all the hubs were pretty much interconnected. In Fallout 1 they were isolated from each other, which makes for a lesser world building

>>714632920
It's non-gaming normies being exposed to the series by the TV show, and only having the TV show to base their opinions on. You'd be surprised just how little normies actually know about certain topics before they decide to mouth off about that type of shit.

>>714653223
>In Fallout 1 they were isolated from each other, which makes for a lesser world building
This wouldn't be too much of an issue but I feel like F1 also repeats the locations they design. The Boneyard, Hub, and Junktown have an overlapping feel. It might have been more beneficial to just stitch them all together, or at least the Boneyard, Cathedral, and the Hub.

Surprisingly a good Fallout thread even if OP intended to bait people.
Cheers for the discussion anons. Always enjoy classic Fallout talks, until we meet again.

>>714631320 (OP)
I think Fallout is an fun game that shittalks a couple of things on the side

>>714653792
I just like the games, even the more flawed Bethesda ones.

>>714653792
It’s because we’re talking about the classic games. Zoom zoomz don’t even know what the fuck we’re talking about. If you talk about New Vegas, you’re going to have summerfag election tourists spam you shitty memes

>>714634225
>when was the last time there were tribals even?
New Vegas in the Honest Hearts DLC. Bethesda obviously doesn't like the concept of having tribals not because they don't understand the franchise, but because twittertrannies will bitch endlessly about marginalizing "indigenous peoples" so they've done all they can to erase them from the franchise.

>>714654056
>complain about natives having representation because it's not accurate
>now they just don't exist
I guess even the mental space was stolen.

>>714645301
how is that working out in practice morethoughover

>>714639320
>>714634570
They made Wasteland, but because EA was EA they didn't actually own the rights. That's how Fallout came to be a separate franchise despite still having a lot of concepts from Wasteland, even the whole "robots replacing people" thing that FO4 uses.

>>714654404
Makes sense, it's the same reason why System Shock 2 has like 3 unrelated kids.

>>714653792
I love talking to people and hearing their opinions on things when they're interested in discussing them. There's a cool quote by a Russian literary analyst Mikhail Bakhtin which goes like
> To be means to be for another, and through the other for oneself. A person has no sovereign internal territory, he is wholly and always on the boundary; looking inside himself, he looks into the eyes of another or with the eyes of another.
There is a bit of value even in ragebait. Don't feed the trolls, but even a malicious thought can make a good discussion point sometimes. CRPG discussion is great for this because you can easily understand who's here to talk and who's here to shit.
The path is perilous, for it has immense hoe-scaring capabilities. Treat lightly, but carefully.

>>714632350
To be rich is glorious though.
>The less you eat, drink, buy books, go to the theatre or to balls, or to the pub, and the less you think, love, theorize, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you will be able to save and the greater will become your treasure which neither moth nor rust will corrupt—your capital. The less you are, the less you express your life, the more you have, the greater is your alienated life and the greater is the saving of your alienated being.
Consumerism is human nature and it will prevail under the post-capitalist mode of production, sorry.

>>714636723
>A idea that was thrown out with 3 and 4 onwards
Well 4 tried to bring back new weapons manufacturing, the problem is Bethesda were retarded and went with the pipe shit instead of actual parts. You'd think BAHWSTON would have at least one gun factory, hell there isn't even a pre-war gun store to be found.

>>714654010
Oh anon, i'm an 04 zoomer. Can't blame you for thinking I wasn't though.

>>714654902
> To be rich is glo- AAAAHHHHHH NOOO DON'T KILL MY 1.2 BILLION FUCKIN' UGLY REDS NOOOOO

>>714655481
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtYF_9e2azE