>Corpo shills start shaking in their boots
That's how you know you've got them by the balls

If you haven't signed, this is the time to save video games
https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

>>714671361 (OP)

Isn't it kind of unrealistic to expect companies too keep servers up indefinitely? What if a game's servers are legit dead, with maybe double-digit players on a good day? Is a company expected to pay server costs for the 20 people still playing a dead game?

>>714672301
not my problem

>>714672397
And if that's the attitude the company goes with?

>>714672301

Then give players the possibility to host their own servers, easy

Reminder it's only ~500 votes till 1.2 million

>>714672301
even though this is not what the whole thing is about , do you even know how little hosting a VM for it costs? It's nothing , not even in the same leage as paying an intern. This isn't the 00s , cloud services are dead cheap.

>>714672301
>Isn't it kind of unrealistic to expect companies too keep servers up indefinitely?
that's never what the initiative has been about or what it is asking for

>>714672470
enjoy low sales

>>714672470
>And if that's the attitude the company goes with?
You mean like they're doing right now? Causing this entire hubbub?

>>714671361 (OP)
>Many titles are designed from the ground up to be online only
Yeah, those are glorified rentals, cut that shit out.

>>714672301
Counter Strike still has thousands of servers players host.
In fact company only servers are a noose on necks of players. It's insanely jewish and I remember that this whole shit started around the PS3 era, yea, when consoles became able to play online.

>>714672301
Couldn't they just switch to p2p?

>>714672397
>>714673018
>>714673214
>>714673234
>>714673598
>falling for the most obvious bait

>>714672301
This is why all games should have offline and lan modes. You know, like how it used to be? Technology is supposed to advance, not regress, but here we fucking are.

>>714673148
Do we unlock a special cutscene if it progresses further?

>>714673731
You know full well it's not about technology. It's about companies not wanting players to be free to do or host what they want.

How is FIFA 2026 supposed to compete with FIFA 2025 if people can keep playing the latter instead of being forced to pull their 5* players again?

>>714671361 (OP)
SKG will never pass in its current state because of the extra burden it will place on the indie developer community.
>Many marginalized developers—whether part of the LGBTQ+ community or working in underrepresented racial or ethnic groups—operate in environments already strained by limited resources, smaller teams, and systemic barriers to funding.
>“If these proposals become law without nuance,” said one Zurich-based queer indie dev who wished to remain anonymous, “we could be forced to release server code or build fallback systems we don’t have the budget for. Larger studios might weather that. We can’t.”

>>714673694
It's 2025. There are people who actually think like that.
A good ten years ago I stopped suspecting trolling instead of plain retardation and started assuming just plain retardation.
And even if we assume this is just bait, it's still important to immediately debunk those retarded claims so other retards won't actually start to believe it.

>>714673879
By making a better game?

>>714673881
Releasing server code costs nothing.

>>714671361 (OP)
Games are not physical products you can "own". They are walks in the park, a softball game with your friends, a trip to an amusement park. They are just things for entertainment to pass the time.
You don't gain full ownership of the park or ball game because you spent $20 on a ticket. Funny how that works huh

>>714671361 (OP)
I mean, they have a small point that they cannot protect players or their IP properly if they give players the ability to host it themselves. As long as it is written into the law that they can't get sued because some retards turn their dead game with player owned servers into a CP/Copyright infringement farm then I think the law should get put into effect.
Not being a corporate shill, by the way, just saying it IS legtit thing that needs to be worked into the law, not an argument against the law.

>>714673148
And we're there.

>>714671361 (OP)
Its afraid

>>714673881
Indies aren't making GaaS shit which is what SKG directly affects.

>>714673971
>Games are not physical products you can "own".
Yes they are.

>>714673971
Yes they are products and you should own them, mr. Goldbergshein.

>>714671361 (OP)
These fuckers don't want you to own anything. They're shitting their pants on how fast SKG is now gaining support. They're trying to turn this into another gamergate and I'm afraid it's actually working.
Game journalists are making Asmongold and Pewdiepie the face of the SKG movement.

>>714673881
>trying to experiment and innovate online interactions
What did he mean by this?

>>714673996
>I mean, they have a small point that they cannot protect players or their IP properly if they give players the ability to host it themselves.

Name a single time that an intellectual property has been threatened because of private servers. Literally one single time in history.

Diablo 2 has had private servers for decades.

>>714674104
Uhhh you know... like.. and uhhh...

>>714673148
it has just reached 1.2 million

>>714673971
>buy ticket to amusement park
>first ride, on to the next
>sorry anon, we decided a minute ago that your ticket is now invalid, please exit through the gift shop

>>714673996
This is insanely dangerous for our democracy

>>714674102
Game journalists no longer have any significant influence in anything.

>>714674102
>Asmongold and Pewdiepie the face of the SKG movement.
kek

>>714674102
>Many developers are now urging #StopKillingGames organizers to take a firmer stance against hate groups and clarify the movement’s values. “Preservation without protection is meaningless,” said Aviv Salinas, co-creator of Blood Nova. “We need to preserve games and the people who make them.”
>As the campaign approaches legislative milestones, its ability to remain inclusive and principled will determine whether it becomes a force for good or another flashpoint in gaming’s long-running culture wars.
That article is absolute fucking sjw sludge, how the fuck do we stop them?

>>714673881
Give me one reason Ronimo couldn't release the source code to run dedicated servers for Awesomenauts for people who purchased the game that doesn't involve Atari.

>>714674102
>I'm afraid it's actually working.
It's really not.

Remember to THANK Maldavius Figtree for SAVING VIDEOGAMES.

>>714673881
What indie games doesn't either have
>an offline singleplayer mode
or
>the possibility to host a local server
?
Almost every indie games that has been remotely successful has either of the above options and most actual indie devs support the idea.

>>714674151
I would say that Vanilla WoW private servers had a noticeable impact on WoW, but blizzard eventually caved and added their own and seeing how much the subscriber count increased after it was good for them.
It is not about past examples though. It is literally just put into the law that if a company lets players optionally host private servers after their termination of the game it does not mean they've given up on the IP and still have control over it. That is it. I support SKG, I just also know that you need to make sure the law is comprehensive and not slapped together otherwise it'll get overturned or not even implemented in the first place.

>>714673881
Funny thing, EA has headquarters in Zurich.

Now imagine if blizzard was forced to make Overwatch servers hostable.

>>714673996
>cannot protect players

?
From what?

>>714673881
>they do not have the budget to release the source code

>>714674437
Harmful communist influence

>>714673757
Stop calling him Thor, his name is Jason.

>>714674379
>It is not about past examples though
The desperation is palpable

>>714674437
From the jewish dick up their mouths

>>714674372
The AI-powered INDIE startups, of course!

>>714674379
>I would say that Vanilla WoW private servers had a noticeable impact on WoW,
What impact did it have on the intellectual property? What measurable impact?

>It is not about past examples though

Because they don't fucking exist because private servers have never threatened IP rights.

>>714673971
What is this?

>>714674543
Something they absolutely fucking hate. Nowadays even physical copies won't start until you connect them to the internet.

>>714674104
Experimental AI powered games
Games that make creative use of Blockchain verification

>>714673694
The super hacker who worked at Blizzard thinks this

>>714674102
Asmongold and Pewdiepie aren't some untouchable pariahs. If that's supposed to kill the movement, I'm afraid it's the worst possible play to make

>>714672301
I think people who posting this shit over and over should kill themselves.

>>714673971
Parks are public domain and owned by all.
Softball equipment is either
>owned by you or your friends that you lend each other
>rented out for set duration in a transparent way
Amusement park tickets give you a set duration of entertainment in a transparent way.

But somehow a perfectly working Digital products, that has no expiration date and can only be forcibly terminated and rendered useless willingly by the creator, therefore preventing customers for them rightful purchases, should get no regulation and isn't considered theft?

>>714674904
Why? Is it making you uncomfortable? Are you unable to pose an actual counter-argument to it?

>>714672301

>>714675004
>Why? Is it because I'm trans?
Yes it is, sister.

>>714674482
>"Hmm, I think the law should be comprehensive, cover all cases, and be given the best chance to succeed."
>LOL THE SHILLS ARE GETTING NERVOUS NOW BOYS WE GOT'EM WE GOT ANOTHER CORPO-KIKE HERE BOYS
Yes, I am very intelligent. Thank you for noticing.

>>714675159
Happy for you but you shouldn't overshare on 4chan...

>>714674808
The left fucking hates those two. We gotta be fucking careful in the coming weeks, those industry shills are playing real fucking dirty.

>>714674102
these two have more influence than all journos combined. more people with side with them than journos. the best thing journos could make is to ignore them but that didnt work either lol

>>714673971
>Games are not physical products you can "own".
The kike corpos WISH this was true.
>inb4 b-buh muh steam
*backs up a pirated copy on a USB or hard drive* pshh, nothin' personel, kid

>>714675308
The law was comprehensible and companies have been given plenty of chance to succeed without regulation despite anti-consumer practices and predatory schemes like MTX/lootboxes, always online DRM that ultimately don't prevent piracy, data theft, false advertising, on-disk DLC, changing economic model strategies after launch, and so on.

so for telling you this elder scrolls nigs but ross prefers gothic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9l93_8Muo

>>714671361 (OP)
they're afraid
very afraid

>>714671361 (OP)
am I the only one who find this kinda comfy?
For once we have a video gaming controversy that isn't about woke, misogyny, culture wars, politics etc.
Just gamers uniting around game-related legislation.
Feels like 2009 or something.

>>714674479
No, his name is FerretFucker3000.

>>714671361 (OP)
Supporting independent game developers, including those from marginalized racial groups, LGBTQ+ communities, and underrepresented backgrounds, is crucial for fostering innovation, inclusivity, and a thriving future in the gaming industry.
They are the ones who create revolutionary new experiences utilizing the blockchain, AI, and other emerging technologies, significantly expanding their creative control, unlocking new revenue streams through NFTs, fostering deeper engagement with players, and building a more inclusive and vibrant future for interactive entertainment.
This movement wants to put an end to all of it, so I BEG YOU TO NOT SIGN THIS!

>>714675879
Are you fucking blind? All these threads are a harassment campaign like fucking gamergate back in the day.

>>714673971
>Games are not physical products you can "own".
Then why are YOU claiming ownership over it?

>>714674102
>I'm afraid it's actually working.
Yeah schlomo I am sure thats why you're afraid

>>714673971
A walk in the park is free. So games should be as well.

>>714676107
1+ million people didn't sign a petition because of a degenerate furry. seek help.

>>714673881
I am still playing games from the 90s online without major issues. Don't even need any extra programs. These fuckers need to stop pretending LAN doesn't exist.

>>714674273
>problem movement?
>just inject idpol!
Words cannot describe my disgust with these "people"

>NOOOO IT'S UNREASONABLE
good, fuck corporate fags
>YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MARKET
I play video games, not markets
>BUT THE SHAREHOLDERS
fuck them, make good games and sell more of them

I don't even fully follow this faggy stop killing games shit but all of this shit
>live service
>microtransactions in single player games
>always online
>pre order bonus
>seasons for single player games
>fix it in patches not being "fixes" but entire chunks of the game being added in
burn it all down
corpofags can choke

>>714676610
>A walk in the park is free
Not at Six Flags or Disneyland it's not.

>>714671361 (OP)
The gaming industry just laid off tens of thousands of jobs this year alone, it's not in a good state at the moment. This movement is just another kick in the teeth while they're already down.
These demands are absolutely unrealistic and are impossible especially for indies to implement.

>>714676820
Sounds to me like you need a new hobby.

Videogames are not for you anymore.

>>714672301
Dedicated Server tools.

>>714676957
It's a shame Toby won't be able to implement that in his games like Deltarune or Undertale. Too bad! Indies are gonna take a hit!

>>714677030
>STOP PLAYING VIDEO GAMES
but I love playing video games and have fun every time I play them.

>>714676957
let it all die

>>714677096
That's an outlier, you just happened to cherrypick the most successful indie series ever.

>>714676957
If Indiefags really want to crash and burn with an always online game, let them. Retards deserve it.

>>714676957
>if triple AAA studios have a problem then so do Indies
If AAA studios would stop spending hundreds of millions making games that no one wants and ripping off governments maybe and just maybe they wouldn't have a problem.

>>714672470
Then refund me.

>>714676957
darn shitty practices i hate arent leading to success and will do even worse if i sign this?

>>714677218
Playing Black Souls without being always online? Impossible!

>>714677107
You clearly don't.

Judging by your posts you may even hate them.If you did like them you would want more of them and more people playing them.

>>714676957
This industry unironically needs a crash at this point. Just let it all fucking burn to the ground.

>>714671361 (OP)
Sorry, I'm not a commie who needs daddy government to pass even more shitty laws.
How about you learn some self control for once in your fucking lives?

>>714672301
>Isn't it kind of unrealistic to expect companies too keep servers up indefinitely?
Why do you think that? If you make always-online an integral part of your game, you commit to making sure that the game is ALWAYS ONLINE. You can't just decide to go back on the always part and make the game unplayable as a result later. Either don't make your games require an online connection to use to begin with, make sure they can be played offline if your shit company goes under, and provide players the means to run their own servers just like games used to. It's beyond simple and just a return to the old rules devs had to play by before the customer became the product.

Chief Manygame say
Server tools should be free
Like the buffalo

Hopefully this kills multiplayer slop. Single player chads win again.

>>714674273
These cancerous cretins will use every trick in the book to subvert, repurpose and hijack SKG just like they did with the occupy wallstreet movement in order to sabotage and defang it. I suspect we'll be seeing them push their astroturfed pilpul in the coming weeks leading up to 31 of July to social engineer their desired manufactured consent.

>>714676957
>the gaming industry, after years of anti-consumer practices, bug-filled game releases, and woke capitalism, isn't in a great state right now
>pls think of the poor game devs who haven't given a shit about you for decades now
No, I think I'll celebrate the burning of this dogshit cancerous industry and eagerly await what rises from the ashes.

>>714677425
>>714677349
>>714677290
>>714677254
>>714677180
So you're turning #StopKillingGames into #AlwaysKillGames? Thanks for proving PirateSoftware's point.

>>714677593
How do I turn it into #KillingYou instead, faggot?

>>714677593
It's more like
#StopKillingGames
#AlwaysKillTheIndustryKillingGames

>>714677450
>buy thing, own thing
>this is a new law
okay, commie. i WILL own things and I will be happy.

>>714677660
Seriously? Death threats?
This movement really did become another gamergate

>>714677593
>>714677770
WE GET IT ALREADY YOU HATE GAMERS

>>714674273
>Many developers are now urging #StopKillingGames organizers to take a firmer stance against hate groups and clarify the movement’s values.
Lmao this is literally how they subverted OWS, by making it all about IDpolitics and other nonsense. Notice how this only happens when you dare to take a stand against corporations.

>>714677593
>>714677660
>>714677770
AI posts

>>714677856
Same as those Truck driver protests. They were protesting shit pay and working conditions and all of the news media spun the narrative and turned it into an alt-right protest. It completely fucked.

>>714677770
I'm afraid trolling is not for you, sweetheart

>>714672301
Just don't get in the way of the players who set up replacement servers.

>>714676957
>This movement is just another kick in the teeth while they're already down.
That's what they deserve and then some, fuck em and fuck you too, nigger.

>>714672301
Steamworks servers are free.

>>714677593
How about you #KillYourself, niggertranny

>companies should not be held responsible for scamming customers out of their purchases
Then piracy should not be considered theft if companies don't provide ways for clients to enjoy their purchases due to arbitrary and predatory decisions.

>>714673881
indies who make multiplayer only games should be crucified desu
You have like a 1 in 1000 shot of actually getting players.

>>714678148
"Piracy" is not considered theft faggot. There is no IF.

>>714671361 (OP)
>never taken lightly
looking at the number of games that decision is taken for it sure does not sound like it

>>714673881
"Extremely unlikely" actually just means he's to autistic to say "No", because "idk, nothing's impossible"

>>714673881
Steamworks servers are free, dipshit.

1. If your game is singleplayer, it does not need mandatory online connectivity.
2. If your game is multiplayer, give players the means to run their own servers.
3. Plan for the inevitable bankruptcy of your company by making sure it does not affect your games, or the people that paid for them.

It's all extremely simple and every dev should be forced to comply at gunpoint. And if you can't, you have no business making games.

>>714673881
>THINK ABOUT LE INDIES
I swear to God these idiots are either actively lying about this or have the same pea-sized brain of the people screaming "THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN" when a privacy-killing bill is criticised.

>>714671361 (OP)
Why the fuck do they think they would be held responsible for the stuff people do on their privately hosted servers?
It's not like Skyrim is facing any consequences whatsoever for all the child killing mods and sex mods or whatever. These "arguments" are just lies.

The real reason companies don't want to do this is because they don't like old games competing wiht newer ones. You're meant to buy product, then get excited for new product and buy that. If you buy product and then play product for 20 years, you are BAD.

>>714674190
>we'll also take anything you buy in the gift shop back.

>>714671361 (OP)
Hm no.
That reply is litterally "we don't care lol we can use 30 different law reason to ignore your initative". Some are listed right there: illegal content, unsafe comunity content, players data.
They just need to say "well that game violates a data security whatever" or "if we leave local servers people will use it to make memes against israel" and they can keep doing whatever they are doing now.
Oh and the initiative is selling the data you used to sign, fyi.

>>714671361 (OP)
SKG shit just makes me realize how much people don't really understand or care about how the world actually works and only think about things emotionally and what they want

Live service games are not products.They are services you have the privilege of accessing

>Forcing game companies to give away the release the infrastructure and bones they created to allow people who don't own the copyright to run and even possibly make money off of their product
By far the stupidest thing SKG wants

>Everything Thor related
Because Thor communicates his thoughts like a jackass narcissist, most people just want him to lose out of spite rather than think about what SKG actually does to games long term

>>714673881
>git remote add publicgithub <URL>
>git push publicgithub

NOOOOO I AM BANKRUPT NOW!!!!!!!!!!11111 I am bankrupt because people can play a game I no longer sell!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>714675493
Gabe has had an end of life plan for steam since the beginning, he talked about it decades ago.

>>714674543
This confuses and enrages the corporate jew.

>>714678447
>copy pasta
kys

A bit of a side note
Remember anons
They big corporations calling people consumers instead of customers is like that of a jew calling people goyim (cattle).
When they throw around the term consumer, they're calling us unthinking animals that just consume. Not a thinking human being that is a customer.
All the while just like jews these mega corps are trying to make themselves out to be human or more human. Just look how much they try to humanize themselves and dehumanize everybody else.
>Consumer = Goy
>Whatever mega corp = *The Chosen Ones*
They even want us to have the same rights or perhaps even less than animals.

YOU ARE A CUSTOMER, NOT A CONSUMER ANONS! YOU ARE NOT AN ANIMAL THAT CONSUMES FROM THE TROUGH! YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING MAKING CONSCIOUS CHOICES! REMEMBER THIS!

>>714678447
bot post

>>714678717
It's literally shills, all they want is the attention/eyes so they can lie and misrepresent. Don't give them (you)s, let them die alone.

>>714678756
This faggot gets it.

>>714678447
>Live service games are not products.
>...to allow people who don't own the copyright to run and even possibly make money off of their product

>>714674104
>we want loot boxes, monetization and horse armor for sale in our games too but 'differenttly'

>>714673148
No anon you are phrasing this the wrong way. It is only 800k votes till 2 million!

>>714672301
Yeah.

>>714672470
>And if that's the attitude the company goes with?
They are and have been. Why do you think this petition was started in the first place, dum dum?

>>714674413
Blizzard's CEO will commit suicide on the spot, him not being able to scam and exploit gamers anymore would crush his will to live

>>714678836
>cherrypicking words
not an argument

>>714672301
>Isn't it kind of unrealistic to expect companies too keep servers up indefinitely?
Yes, which is why they should let the players do it so they can use the thing they paid for.

>>714673881
>I'm a brown gay communist and it's literally impossible for me to make a game you are able to keep playing after you pay me
Why can't these fucking faggots ever argue in good faith?

>>714674273
>how the fuck do we stop them?
By ignoring them.

>>714679787
Because they have no argument.
Thread after thread it's the same bot trying to derail traction and create division.
There is no downside to this initiative, regardless of its outcome.

>>714674413
Unfortunately the initiative is not retroactive.

>>714671361 (OP)
>That second paragraph

Oh yeah cos Valve has been sued how many times for the absolutely insane shit people get up to on CS and Tf2 private servers?

>>714680369
volvo had to pay millions because of my goatse spray

>>714679548
>stop pointing out my contradictory statements!

>Total Count: 1,203,019
The momentum slow down, but hopefully it will reach 1.4m by the end of the month.

>>714672301
You'd think so, but Guild Wars has kept its servers up for 2 decades and the devs have said the price is trivial and they'd keep it up forever if they can.

>corpo shills afraid because there is an opportunity for a legislative body to finally define where video games fall in the ownership vs license debate, thinking GaaS was enough to muddy the law enough and get away with it
>said body is known to favour customer rights protection vs brand/company rights
About time. Can't wait to see companies "threaten" to pull out of a 40B$ market while censoring games to markets worth significantly less.

>>714676107
Neither are a harassment campaign.

>>714680612
We most likely won't need much more than that. It's highly unlikely 200+ thousand signatures are phonies. It's all bot doomposting from corpo shill detractors.
People should still keep signing regardless because it only strengthens the movement, but this is going to the EU regardless.
Can't wait for the people who did bot signatures to get literally fucking v& in real time. Morons.

>>714673996
Did I miss the news that Microsoft lost the Minecraft IP because people can host private servers?

>>714672301
It is unrealistic which is why that's not what people are asking for.
We're asking for P2P and dedicated servers.

>>714673916
> I stopped suspecting trolling instead of plain retardation and started assuming just plain retardation.
This is the saddest thing to ever happen. Why did trolls become lolcows instead of making fun of lolcows?

>>714680612
i am hoping for 2 million +

>>714678447
WOW is a service
You give me X money, you can use my game service for a defined period.
Live "service" is not a service at all.

>>714680734
>Can't wait to see companies "threaten" to pull out of a 40B$ market
Doesn't matter if they do as it would make their current approach unsustainable so they'd have to change regardless. The real "doom" scenario is the big bois don't change, pull out of the EU market and then we see a massive crash as mega publishers cut everyone loose to secure their golden parachute. The indie devs aren't going to feel the burn as they aren't the ones making games that SKG is targeting as a rule.

You are delulu if you think it'll reach more than 1,350,597 votes

>>714681408
>WOW is a service
It shouldn't be.
I bought it, I still own the 16 install CDs, I should be able to play it without jumping through hoops and obtaining fan-made singleplayer servers.

>>714673881
>said one Zurich-based queer indie dev who wished to remain anonymous
Come on, who reads that and thinks that this nigger actually exists.

>>714680734
>>714681486
I wish. Imagine all they Eurojank that would fill the hole in the market.

>>714681517
whanna bet? i expect a big push in the last week of the month

>>714677218
Yeah, if Minecraft was forced to let people host their own servers and play offline it would never have become the biggest video game of all time

>>714671361 (OP)
>corpo
>posts a commie lobby
LMAO

>>714681562
i am already playing only European games

>>714681486
Pretty much. I see only positives for customers and game devs, whether indie or not, that will see their work not end-up disappearing because some greasy suit decided it wasn't "viable" anymore.

>>714672470
UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ONLY I LE CAN, OKAY????

>>714675308
The initative isn't meant to be a super specific law at this stage.
That's not how the process works, there's a reason the EU forces a word count on these things.

This is at best a criticism of the system the EU uses for citizen initiatives not of the SKG movement itself which is using what options it has available.

>>714678447
Why do retards like you think that companies that don't want to support the their game anymore actually also do want to support their game forever, even after end of life?

>>714680247
What's the point, then? New games suck ass, they should be killed, no one is going to miss shit like Hyenas and Concord.

Is there any way I can revoke my signature?

>almost any and all indie games, successful or not, can be played either offline or with locally hosted servers
>AAA games that are heavily designed for online play, can be played offline
>somehow the usual suspects like Blizzard, Ubisoft, Microsoft, EA, etc can't afford this
Curious.

>>714682468
>can somehow figure out how to do LAN for tournaments
>but can't figure out how to enable that for anyone else
Most intriguing

Pic related is proof, albeit indirectly, that preservation is possible and those against SKG are both lazy hacks and are full of shit

>>714682468
Online servers are basically free unless you're a cuck who doesn't want to use steamworks.

>>714671361 (OP)
How about we have a petition to stop killing kids and civilians?
You know that whole ongoing genocide you’re funding and ignoring?
I don’t give a fuck about your stupid game servers, get your priorities straight you toxic manchildren fucks

>>714682468
We don't tolerate nooticiers around these parts.

>>714682715
That, any and all fighting games and other multiplayer focused games that can still be played offline, is proof this is a problem created specifically by companies in bad faith towards their customers citing half-assed arguments like Brand/IP protection, modern tech costs and other bullshit.

>>714680734
this. they really don't have a lot of leverage beyond some vague belief that people's lives have become so miserable that they're hopelessly dependent on the novel stimulus of uninspired corpo-AAA slop. there are lots of good old games to play, they can get fucked

>>714673881
Fuck the Devs! All of them are cunts!

>https://www.twitch.tv/piratesoftware/clip/FunnyBombasticMochaM4xHeh-ZPy5NkvwEmh5EmXJ
>SKG = Kony 2012
I swear he spammed this here in this threads too

>>714676957
What are you some kind of indie dev? Will this affect your babby-tier project?

>>714671361 (OP)
great moment to push when all their money is invested into ai transition,
just be aware of the bots and drones pushing back.

>PLEASE SAAR REFER TO THE OFFICIAL CORPORATE STATEMENT
no

>>714672301
Solution:
Don't needlessly make you game require always-online to function.

There are over 30 years of games that managed to do this just fine while selling well enough to build a worldwide industry.

I AM INCLUDING MULTIPLAYER GAMES WHERE THERE IS A SERVER BROWSER INSTEAD OF A FORCED SERVER IN THIS EVIDENCE

>>714676957
>The gaming industry just laid off tens of thousands of jobs this year alone, it's not in a good state at the moment.
Anon, the industry is growing. Rapidly. Still growing. Before the Switch 2 released analysts were talking about how in the upcoming years comsumers would be spending unprecedented amounts of money on video games. They're not firing people because the industry is in a bad state. They're firing people because the bubble is getting big and the executives need to keep all the wealth for themselves before the bubble bursts.

>>714682940
I wasn't aware murder was legal in Europe, someone should look into this, this sounds like a problem.

>>714680734
>finally define where video games fall in the ownership vs license debate
There's no debate, it's licensing

Stop Killing Games won't bring Concord back, so what's the point?

>>714683936
It is but only if you're a migrant.

>>714684152
just because you identify as a female does not make you a woman.
its the same with good. just that you say its a service does not mean its classified as that in the legal system.

>>714684381
you seem confused about what these words mean
goods vs services is not ownership vs licences

>>714684359
good

>>714672301
>Isn't it kind of unrealistic to expect companies too keep servers up indefinitely?
Learn to read, faggot.

>>714673916
>And even if we assume this is just bait, it's still important to immediately debunk those retarded claims so other retards won't actually start to believe it.
This. What's obvious to you might be not-so-obvious to someone else.

>>714672301
Let players have their own servers

>>714671361 (OP)
>the protections we put in place to secure players' data

>>714673881
Don't make games in which you have given yourself a killswitch.
Simple as.

>>714684737
Less about what's obvious and more that if it's spammed enough people will get tricked into thinking it's a dominant perspective. And that's their strategy. Spam and flood out the opposition.

>>714672301
I will OWN my fucking games and YOU fucking kike wont do SHIT about it. Bend the knee faggot. HAIL THE EUROPEAN UNION

>>714684936
It's always for our own good.
Same as
>I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

>>714684359
Concord 2 will be safe

>>714684152
Doesn't mean shit when companies can market "purchasable goods" and state in their eula, after the purchase in some cases, the good is actually an "indefinite license". The intent is to clearly render everything as opaque as possible for the customer.
Hence the need for further customer protection regulation since you greedy asses can't help yourselves to try everything you can for any profit. Even taking stupid, sometime costly decisions only to gaslight that it's because the players don't know what they want.

>>714684152
There is no ownership vs license debate. A perpetual license is ownership. What the license actually is about is IP. You don't get the IP when you buy a game but you get a license to own your instance of the IP. That's what that actually means. Of course the misconception would never be corrected by developers because the belief you own nothing is beneficial to them.

>>714676957
Not my problem. I only want to own my games.

I can't believe this....things might actually change? For the better?

>>714671361 (OP)
We aren't "shaking in our boots". We're laughing at you. Chuds.

>>714687873
What is the most evil thing?
Give someone hope, then take it away just to see their suffering.

>>714680961
being a retard =/= being a troll

>>714687873
Nothing happened yet. The petition is just to get EU to LOOK at the issue.

>>714672301
One less yacht won't kill you Bobby

Post yfw the Commitee passes legislation and fucks over the corpos.

>>714673881
Reminder that this is a GPT generated bullshit that gets spammed by the same retard trying to bait anons.

>>714682940
This is a european initiative, you should direct your demands at the POTUS if you want to stop sending money to Israel.

>>714687976
faggola

A girl gave me a blowie because I told her I signed the Stop Killing Games initiative!

>>714688135

>>714680218
All these bots ever do though is piss people off against the obvious corposlop standpoint

>>714688458
Hell yeah! Was he hot?

>>714688591
She looked kinda like this.

>petition passes
>EU required to talk about it
>EU says it's not a problem and moves on because it's ran by boomers who don't give a shit about video games
Isn't this the most likely outcome?

>>714689137
Replace communists with libertarians and that image is now accurate.

>>714689137
no, the EU is actually incredibly pro consumer when it comes to this shit, and cucked apple into removing or changing lots of their anti consumer policies

>>714689137
They don't have to give a shit about videogames, they just need to give a shit about squeezing burger corpo balls.

>>714672301
>expect companies too keep servers up indefinitely?
Nobody said that.
Patch out always online requirements when you're ready to leave, or provide self hosting tools.

>>714689279
tbf they're also pro-government and pushed apple to add a government backdoor to their cloud encryption. This is irrelevant to SKG but it's important to remember the EU isn't our ally, we're just using the EU to get a good result.

>>714689841
never said its our ally, but in this circumstance the EU is absolutely in our favor and not like the US or British government

>>714674104
>What did he mean by this?
I'm a small indie dev and I dream of making a game with microtransactions + blockchain + cryptos + nfts and I want to be able to pull the plug whenever I have scammed enough people

>>714689137
They mostly care about customer protection laws. Whether it's video games or not won't matter to them but the fact that almost half the EU population plays games nowadays & an EU video game industry market is slowly but surely emerging with several EU made games that have had global success while already compliant with what SKG wants might make them consider the matter more seriously.

>>714683936
It is. You're allowed to kill unborn babies under a certain age. Very unfortunate.

>>714689137
Then we are in the same mess we are already in, but at least we tried.

>>714689137
It's probably not the most likely, but if that does come to pass, it is now on public record of them saying "You don't own what you purchase. You have no rights." That is only a good thing.
This shit is why companies do shit like forced arbitration and "settling out of court", because having their horrendous business practices on record for the public to see ruins their reputation.
There is only good that can come from the EU investigating this.

>>714689278
Are there any serious libertarians against SKG? I haven't seen any.

>>714684442
there are some caviotes but in general you sell goods. you license services.

>>714690308
It's not murder. It's the intrinsic right every woman has. Which is to spawn camp their kid.

>>714689841
Issue here is that there’s no obvious enemy the EU can use this movement to attack.

I hope it works out in the end, but ultimately this is going to lead to a discussion about licensing and if video games are a product or a service.

I think in the end developers that use these bad practices are going to sell their games as a live service to avoid having to change anything. The argument being made in the petition falls apart of the video game is legally a service and not a product.

>>714689137
They did the lootboxes in games on their own, as well as digital property laws for skins, so I dont see why they would skip on this one.

>>714671361 (OP)
Its so fucking funny how terrified all these jews are of just simply LETTING PLAYERS MAKE THEIR OWN SERVERS
Theres zero downside to that, unless of course you happened to be a control freak semitic tyrant who thinks the stupid goyim should not be allowed to have opinions or say things, that their every word must be carefully monitored and censored

>>714690773
That’s murder, anon.

>>714690869
Subscription model is unsustainable for most games thats why they dont use it

>corpo shills astroturf their own campaign
>sell tshirts
>”we got em now boys”

Yeah, DONT mail them a bomb. Please!

>>714690869
>this is going to lead to a discussion about licensing and if video games are a product or a service
It won't. Because every life service outside of MMO subscriptions will be considered a good.

>>714690667
plumbing? auto repair? restaurants? consulting? construction? lawn care? phone? internet? theaters?

>>714671506
uoh

>>714690959
Doesn't count because babies are not alive. Just like killing communists doesn't count because commies aren't people.

>>714691027
They can just do a pay as you go system with premium options. Dont underestimate how scummy they can get with portraying everything they do as a service.

This discussion very quickly expands past games and goes into the realm of digital goods and services. I hope it ends up well but this is a demon of a fight that I’m not sure the EU will deliver much on.
In the past, the good rulings from the EU came due to the intent to slap an American corporation for bad consumer practices. Issue here is that there’s no obvious American corporation to target.

>>714672301
Shut the fuck up Jason this has been debunked in every single SKG thread you slimy jew

>>714691134
> Because every life service outside of MMO subscriptions will be considered a good.
According to what exactly? Hopeful thinking is good and all, but this isn’t a simple fight and there is a lot of money to be lost if this ends up killing digital services.
>>714691229
Incorrect. Babies are alive.

Licenses have nothing to do with services. Licenses are extensions of copyright, which is an entirely separate (and unlawful) concept.

>>714691373
Licensing is an issue here because most modern devs are using third party tools to facilitate their online systems. These licenses cannot legally be passed to the general consumers of the product being sold.

So a change in this would require a review of the current software licensing system, which will awaken a sleeping giant in EU that is the weird relationship between EU governments and digital service providers.

I guess that in this decade we'll finally decide whether games are a product or a service

>>714691625
Hopefully it will be determined for all digital products. That’s the golden prize for this entire movement imo.

>>714691251
>They can just do a pay as you go system with premium options
Will only further ignite more regulations. Companies have a simple cost-effective choice really.

>>714689137
You know the EU banned gambling games right?

>>714691761
Ignite more regulations from who exactly?

>>714691363
Based on precedents from court cases regarding the resale of digital goods. Ross (I'm e-celeb shilling) has a video about it. When a company sells you a perpetual liscense(which is what they're doing when they sell a game on steam or whatever) they're giving you ownership of an instance of the IP. And are ceding control of that instance to the buyer. This has also been upheld at times in the US(US flip-flops a bit) with the "first-sale" thing. It's already determined, the only reason it doesn't seem that way is because no one's suing and bringing these cases to the highest courts.

>>714691829
EU, who else are we talking about here?
As >>714691775
stated, they already regulated shit like gambling systems and loot-boxes. Strawman arguments like "we can't control or protect customers from what happens within a locally hosted server" doesn't hold when hundreds of past and present examples blow it out.

>>714691775
just belgium

>>714692120
A company selling you service to their game is not selling you a perpetual license to the software they use to run the online infrastructure. You’re conflating different licenses here.

>>714692190
From what I can tell, tiered internet packages are not illegal in the EU. If tiered internet services are within regulatory bound, why wouldn’t tiered gaming services also be within regulatory bound?

I think you’re just hoping that the EU does the right thing, but unfortunately politics doesn’t work like that. I don’t see any precedent that would make tiered digital services (for online games) illegal since it’s legal for other software and internet services.

>>714691251
It doesn’t really matter what system they choose or want to choose, pretty much the best deal they can ever get is to make a player pay full price upfront. Because everything else lowers initial gains drastically, increases playerbase requirements and requires you to actively retain players to be profitable. Say you need 60 mil for a game to break even, if you just sell it for 60$ you only need 1 million people to buy it. If you instead set 10$/ month subscription price you need to have average 1 million players for 6 month

>>714691775
It's not EU-wide.
Each country has their own gambling laws.

>>714671361 (OP)
question: does skg do anything for live service games currently being offered?

>>714691539
While it's true a lot of games are built with obnoxious AWS and MS Azure bullshit in the server architecture, most of that crap is for authentication, billing, and managing hundreds of thousands of simultaneous connections. NONE of which would be necessary for a user-run dedicated server.
Furthermore, every dev ALREADY HAS an in-house server build that is stripped of all that crap, because they would be almost completely unable to test their game otherwise. All they need to do is clean that build up a little bit, then release it to the public. Hell, they don't even need to clean it up that much if they just release documentation alongside it. Although there are degrees of that which could be considered malicious compliance.

>>714671361 (OP)
God I hate corpo shills and sheep especially those who don't get paid and shill for free, I hope they get colon cancer

>>714692326
>A company selling you service to their game
You've already fucked up in the first couple words. They can't sell you the "service to their game" The game(product) itself has to be the service. IE, pay monthly to access game. If they're not telling you when access ends, and there's no expiration date listed on the game, then it's not a service. They're not selling you a service.

>>714692470
I don’t understand how you can say it doesn’t matter when there are legal paths available for them to maintain their predatory services.
If the EU doesn’t bother clarifying the difference between a digital good and a digital service it doesn’t fix much. Bonus points if they insist video games must be classified as a digital product.

>>714692585
Irrelevant. The low quality games that we are talking about mostly use third party backends because they don’t have the technical background to create one for themselves.

>>714692685
Show me where the EU dictates that video games must be sold as digital products and not digital services.

>>714677559
>These cancerous cretins will use every trick in the book to subvert, repurpose and hijack SKG just like they did with the occupy wallstreet movement in order to sabotage and defang it.
The joke's on them. Because none of these people and nothing attached to them will ever show up before EU hearings.
The actual initiative's authors will. And they're a pair of no-names that have intentionally, precisely for this reason, kept a low profile and kept themselves out of any mudflinging.

>>714692549
No. Laws are not retroactive. In some insane best case scenario GaaSes that are still alive and updated after the law passes will have to do this, but generally it will only be relevant for games released after

>>714692695
>The low quality games that we are talking about mostly use third party backends because they don’t have the technical background to create one for themselves.
Hey, if this further helps expose the competency crisis in software development, I'm all for that too.

>>714692801
They can be sold as services. WOW is a service. They just aren't because most gamers don't buy services. If Gamers liked services, arcades would still be popular. But the console market took over, because it's more profitable to sell goods the consumer have perpetual access to.

>>714691539
>So a change in this would require a review of the current software licensing system
The EU Commission already has a taskforce investigating necessary revisal to IP and copyright legislation specifically in the context of videogames and providing a fair balance between consumers and developers. It's literally part of a core initiative to reinvigorate the local videogame industry in Europe. It's a safe bet that they won't be above giving the predominantly US-based videogame AAA industry an especially hard time, to give their own industry a leg up.

>>714692695
Because it is simply cheaper for the vast majority of games to make a EoS plan and sell for full price than bank on being successful with subscription model.

>>714693020
Agreed. I’m simply trying to engage in discussion of some of these caveats because this is an issue that expands past video games and quickly becomes a very muddied topic.

No one has really tackled the issue of determining where to draw the line between a digital service and a digital product. Just look at how major publishers started shipping a download code instead of physical media, thereby entering into this gray zone of product or service.

Currently a lot of digital goods get to pick and choose which one they are based on convenience. I hope this becomes rectified as a result of this movement.

>>714693039
They aren’t because there is no real difference between a digital service and a digital good. There’s never been a reason for publishers to explicitly state their good is a service.

>>714693339
Why do you assume it has to be a subscription model?

>>714693392
Hmm my terminology is a bit muddied. The question is if it’s a good or a service; both would qualify as the “product”.

>>714671361 (OP)
they don't even have real arguments

>>714689137
Part of why Trump is mad at the EU is because they're not afraid of coming down hard on tech giants.

>>714693683
Trump is mad at the EU because they were actively censoring his campaign lol.

its funny all the points corporations bring up are identical to piratesoftware

>>714692231
No. ALL OF THEM.
The EU recently put out a guidance document for the industry on the application of the existing package of consumer rights legislation to virtual currency and digital content and DOs and DON'Ts for the industry to avoid being fined moving forward.

This guidance document contains of 7 core principles. Most about scumbag practices wrt the display and handling of virtual currency. Two though, are very interesting. The 6th and the 7th.

The 6th bans terms of contract that give developers the unilateral right to remove access to digital content the user had previously purchased. (Basically: it confirms that what SKG said should be illegal, the EU actually considers illegal. Already. Without new legislation.)

The 7th bans any manipulative or coercive sales mechanics, game mechanics, or means of presentation that would lead vulnerable players to initiate commercial transactions they otherwise would not have. It doesn't just ban lootboxes. It bans ANYTHING that is judged to be coercive or manipulative. Unbroken login chains on battle passes; countdown timers on 'daily deals'; etc. The full works. All of it.

>>714693746
>because they were actively censoring his campaign
How so?
Also, how would it matter if they censored it in the EU, where, you know, people can't vote in America?
By the same logic the american government is censoring any and all european election campaigns because they don't cover them in the news.
God why are you migapedes so retarded?

>>714693871
Just proves how much of a bigshot he is at Blizzard

>>714693981
They were initiating take down requests on American users discussing issues regarding the Ukraine War. Their logic is that since the American’s comment can be viewed by a European that they were within their right to request take down.

I can’t believe you folks don’t know about this. It’s the single biggest reason why Trump is going scorched earth on the EU.

We were too late to save concord from dying, but we can still preserve FAIRGAME$ from sharing that same outcome

>>714693938
you can see the banned gacha games on steamdb. its only belgium. rest of eu is fine.

>>714688070
For some people that is their idea of trolling though. It's gotten particularly lazy with the younger generation. Trolling used to be a art. Now it's just about making the most low effort garbage post possible for engagement

>>714693483
Any model with perpetual payment

>>714694119
So you're saying they were cracking down on foreign agents influencing european public opinion? In short, enemy propaganda?
God why are you migapedes so retarded?

>>714692801
They can be sold as a service as long as they have a set ending date.
MMOs like WoW that use monthly renewals can (and are) sold as a service.

But the European Court of Justice has years ago established that software sold under a perpetual license is to be classified as a good for purposes of applying consumer rights legislation and legislation that concerns itself with ownership and rights derived from that.

The license that accompanies software is not what you buy in the EU. You buy a copy of the software. The license forms a set of additional terms and conditions, ancillary to the contract of sale.

Also - the right to copy and distribute are denied via copyright legislation in the individual member states. These are rights you do not have by definition, unless explicitly granted. So they do not need any kind of license to deny them to begin with.

You do, however, have full ownership over your own copy.
Which is also why you have a right to resell in the EU.

>>714694394
Are you engaging in a perpetual payment model when you eat at a restaurant?
Sorry for the dumbed down comparison, but I don’t think you appreciate just how loose a “digital service” is, by definition.

>>714694464
> They can be sold as a service as long as they have a set ending date.
According to who, exactly?

>>714694256
The document in question is very recent and the first case running based on it, is against a small time Swedish developer.
This is a matter of "wait for it..."

>>714693392
>Agreed. I’m simply trying to engage in discussion
You sat that bad then you say
>there is no real difference between a digital service and a digital good
Even though I listed things like
>pay monthly to access game. telling you when access ends, expiration date listed for the game.
Pic related is and Austrialian Court case which is saying that the games sold on steam are goods and not services. This is ripped from Acursed Farms video on the subject, and he has cases from the UK and US as well. I will post them in separate replies.

>>714694374
>Now it's just about making the most low effort garbage post possible for engagement
tbf, it's not "now". Though I must admit the share of HURR I TROL U tards is steadily increasing.
I can remember, it must have been 15-20 years ago, on one of those chat platforms. Omegle, chaturbate or something like that.
/b/ got wind of it and started trolling people. One of my first chats was literally going
>you have been connected with stranger
hi
>LOLOLOL FUCK YEAH SEAKING
>POOLS CLOSED
>EPIC WIN
>User has disconnected

>>714694526
>According to who, exactly?
The European Court of Justice, which is the highest authority on the matter in the EU.
If it's sold with a perpetual license, it's to be classified as a good. Period.

>>714692801
https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/study-european-video-games-sector
>official EU Comissioned group states "Video games are complex products"
Hence the opportunity to finally establish in a clear way whether video games copies are a sold perpetual license or a service with an expiration date.
If you want to see what future regulation might look like for what form video games might be designated as check
https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/regulatory-framework-video-games

>>714694629
> You sat that bad then you say
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here.
Are you suggesting that the EU will lean in the Australian ruling of insisting steam is selling goods and not services?

That would be lovely if it’s the case, but I don’t know if the ruling in regards to steam can just be copied and pasted by the EU since steam is a marketplace and is a digital equivalent of a corner store selling physical copies.
If the corner store is selling goods, logically steam must be doing the same.

I don’t know how this is going to be taken to apply to live service games since the foundational argument here doesn’t seem to match. You can’t buy most of these live service games in a corner store.

>>714671361 (OP)
It's impressive how much disingenuous everyone against SKG is...

>>714694724
link the ruling or law that you are using to make these claims please. I don’t understand if you’re citing existing law or just insisting that this is how they should rule.

>>714694840
>video games are “complex products”
That’s not a good thing if that is their official stance. The complexity of the nature of digital products is precisely why we are in this mess.

They need to simple state if it’s a good or a service. It can’t exist as a complexion of both.

>>714695036
>>714694840
Furthermore, I think video games should be unquestionably classified as a good so the traditional consumer protections regarding goods would be applied.

I don’t think video games should be classified as a service since that invites these questionable monetary practices. Riot Games for example does not produce goods but instead produces services.

Explain how WB were able to turn this massive failure of a game into a SP experience?

>>714694914
Steam has plenty of incentive to want to classify their products as digital content i.e. goods, rather than digital services
This is because the EU's right of withdrawal which allows consumers to back out of any purchase within 14-days.
While it does have a waiver clause for digital content and Valve is having Steam make use of that, the EU Court of Justice has decided that this term has to be interpreted strictly - i.e. it applies ONLY to digital CONTENT. It does NOT apply to digital SERVICES.
Which means if Steam classifies their products as digital services, you cannot be asked to waive your right of withdrawal and anything you purchase on Steam, you can legally ALWAYS return within 14 days for your money back. Period.

>>714688135

>>714695309
So it’s still up to the publisher to announce to the world whether their product is a good or a service?
That’s the part I contest. They shouldn’t have the option. Producers of physical goods and services don’t have this option so digital equivalents shouldn’t either.

>>714695036
>link the ruling or law that you are using to make these claims please.
It's an indirect link, but this one also provides the necessary context:
https://www.cuatrecasas.com/en/global/intellectual-property/art/the-cjeu-revisits-usedsoft-does-the-online-supply-of-software-with-a-perpetual-license-equate-to-sale-of-goods

This is basically a re-affirmation of what was already concluded during the famous Usedsoft vs Oracle case.

>>714695481
Thanks, exactly the sort of info I want to see.

>>714694914
>I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here.
I said
>This is ripped from Acursed Farms video on the subject, and he has cases from the UK and US as well.
I'm putting the Australian case there just to show this isn't a rare thing.
Anyway EU. They say exclusive rights are exhausted on first sale. This is what I'm talking about, you get ownership over your instance of the IP. That makes it a good.

>>714695464
>They shouldn’t have the option.
They don't. Steam is TRYING to though; and if they do - it will backfire on them monumentally because of that little boobytrap hidden in the right of withdrawal.

>>714695036
>That’s not a good thing if that is their official stance. The complexity of the nature of digital products is precisely why we are in this mess.
Not different to movies or music.

Isn’t this whole thing about always online games getting shut down and unplayable? I why are they saying this will affect indie devs? Indie devs don’t usually do online games in the first place.

>>714695612
US. Supreme court affirms the first-sale doctorine which is basically the same thing in the EU case. The copyright holder loses their exclusive rights on the first sale. It's a good, you own it. Granted the US is inconsistent, so until there's a big supreme court case about digital goods it's up in the air somewhat.

>>714695612
This anon answered my question
>>714695481

>>714695618
From what I can tell they still have the option, although it’s not as if that option is legally granted to them. It’s more due to the gray nature of this topic.

>>714695650
That doesn’t make it any better. Netflix and the like are legal in the EU, correct?

Again just to restate for clarity: I think the ability to sell a digital product as a service instead of a product (in Netflix’s case packaged as a subscription model) is an issue. There needs to be some concrete qualifications that applies to digital goods and keeps them firmly as a good.
And according to this it looks like there’s precedent for something like that to occur:
>>714695481

>>714696034
The EU has more regulatory authority so it will likely be the first to crack this egg once and for all. The US will likely follow suit since it’s a very muddied issue over here as well.

>>714671361 (OP)
i will not sign the meme petition, no thanks

>>714672301
you're retarded
you don't know the topic
stop talking

>>714692549
EU didn't make Apple recall every iPhone to replace them with USB-C.

>>714672301
The board is full of manchildren who have completely stopped mentally growing past their tweens, ofcourse they'd fail to understand the passage of time, what did you expect? The idiots who think offline software can still be bought and sold like their action figures will never grasp the idea that there is no such thing as an eternal server where it never shuts down and mommy and daddy eventually die due to old age, its simply a reality thry cannot process

>>714672301
>to keep servers up indefinitely?
that was never the idea you fucking illiterate faggot

>>714683167
Just take a look kek
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/text/kony%202012/

>>714672301
>Company cannot host a VM for $10 a month

>>714695739
EA and Ubishit are trying to go:
>WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???
To try and save their asses.

>>714696241
>US
>not sucking corpo dick
The mutts are likely to get rights because of this, but only because vidya is a global market and they won't make different versions of all the games just to keep scamming people outside the EU. They won't pass legislation of their own, specially with dorito at the helm.

>>714695029
I guess, if you haven't been paying attention.

>>714697053
Just tell them they need id verification to sell any game with an online component.

>>714692549
>>714692994
Most likely scenario is that it'll only go into effect for newly released games 1-2 years after it gets passed, to allow developers time to integrate necessary EoL setup before games are released.

>>714697149
Comments like this are why so much vitriol has been invited against SKG.

Stop turning this into a US v EU fight. Dont forget the petition was effectively dead before a bunch of American influencers started talking about it.

>>714697312
Didn't know pewdiepie is american

>>714672301
They need to allow private servers dummy. Quake Live has zero funding from the devs and the multiplayer is still doing fine.

>>714697496
This behavior is why people are actively trying to sabotage this European centric movement.

>>714694440
We're funding your little faggot war we can say whatever we want about it, europoor.

I'm hoping SKG does well and sticks so nearby non-EU countries (looking at you UK and norway) can go "see, the EU did it so lets adopt their regulations as well as they've done the hardwork".

>>714697578
>fucking yuros man
>again we had to help your asses you ungrateful subhumans!
>wtf why are you being mean to me ;_;

>companies can boast about their goods & products when they break record sales to shareholders during meetings
>but wait, actually it's not goods it's totally services now that potential Legislation is rearing its head
>companies can host LAN tournament in venues but locally hosted servers by players is unthinkable & expensive
>offline play for games with single-player elements is impossible because... new tech and netcodes and moderation for minorities & children
Can they make it less obvious?

>>714697657
You’re the one who imitated this discussion with your explicit anti-American comment.

>>714676957
The best time to correct a monster is when they are already reeling though. The industry needs all of its teeth kicked out.
>indies
No indies are making always online live service games.

>>714697312
I mean, honestly, people spamming two ugly eceleb faggots for the entire length of this has made me a hater of the entire movement.

>>714697595
>your little faggot war
>your
Were you literally born yesterday or are you just legit retarded?

>>714697312
I'm not turning it into and EU vs US thing. I'm not american and I don't live in a EU country. I'm just saying it as it is.
Moldman tried pushing action in the US, the conclusion he got is that you just don't have rights. He didn't say it out loud because he has a heart of gold.
Some EU countries pushed legislation against lootboxes, did the US follow suit? Straya gave us refunds, did the US follow? All those things you have because other countries pushed for them, the US just sat and cried a bit because million dollar corpos would have to make do with 0.0001% less revenue.

>>714689841
>they're also pro-government and pushed apple to add a government backdoor to their cloud encryption
That was the UK.

>>714697736
Doesn’t matter since it helped get the word out to more Europeans to sign the petition.
>>714697756
>im not turning it into a EU v US thing
Yes you are lol.

>>714697717
>imitated
ESL or just nigger? I'll go with the second, because the first would be too cuckish.

>>714697312
SKG was started by an American. And you know why that American went to the EU to do this? Because he knew there was fuckall he could do in America to effect change.

So what’s the actual downside to this? Developers cutting back on the development of new online/multiplayer games? I mean I guess to some people they’d be fine with that. But I’d rather play coop and multiplayer games because I find single player campaigns to be a bit depressing.

>>714697838
auto correct. stop being a divisive fag.

>>714697858
>So what’s the actual downside to this?
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE PUBLISHERS

>>714697760
I always fucking forget brexit happened.

>>714697756
>Moldman tried pushing action in the US, the conclusion he got is that you just don't have rights
mostly because a court set up a precedent that software is a service rather then a product.
of course there was a car related court case that basically said that companies must fuck over the workers and consumers in favor of the shareholders and investors.

>>714697825
>yes you are lol
>I'm too fragile to read the rest of your post and have a conversation, plis say my country is the greatest on earth and that we have freedom
It's hard not to look down of you americans because of shit like this.

>>714697858
Worst outcome is less live service games in the EU but that’s not really a negative.
Best outcome is some digital consumer rights that cascades into other western countries.

>>714697924
kys dumb phoneposter

>>714698018
stop contributing divisiveness to this thread. thanks.
>>714698106
no

concerned yet?

>>714674102
If you told me like 6 years ago I'd finally be on pewdiepies side with something I would never believe you.

>>714673881
This copy pasta is in every SKG thread and you retards fall for it every time.

>>714698234
If nobody replied to it, easily influenced low-iq teenagers (i.e. regular american 4chan users) would think it's a valid point.

>>714698138
This confirms my theory that most threads here are made by shitposters themselves and not real anons. They do this because it de-incentivizes making a thread yourself(duplicate threads bad) and it's easier to spam your own thread than to find one to spam. We should just assume every-time a thread is already up that it's a shitposter thread, make a new one.

>>714674273
TKD

>>714698030
>less live service games in the EU
not even Apple and Google were able to NOT bend the knee to EU so I don't think even the ibggest vidya publishers will be able to.

>>714697858
>So what’s the actual downside to this?
Publishers wont be able to as effectively kill off old games in an attempt to force players onto their newer games by essentially cutting down competition.

That's literally it.

>>714672301
btw forgot to mention that im trans

Fucking industry corpo fucktards.
>Private servers not viable because uh....
>we uh..moderate stuff and we'll get sued if you fuckers screw up
So long as its obvious that a private server, much like a mod, is not official game content there is no reason to think there is any major liability on the original publisher. Hell, I know no newfags will remember it but the niche european MMO Ryzom (it was surprisingly well done and had unique races and lore outside of the normal things, as well as live events) shut down as a for profit endeavor and turned the whole thing open source and to the community to manage - its basically a FOSS private server that gets updates and even has subscribers these days. City of Heroes was secretly exfiltrated out of NCSoft's hands when it shut down, developed in secret and (despite some autist fuckery between different communities) released private servers with ALL the in game content and more, with updates since. Don't even get me started on EverQuest, Star Wars Galaxies, and WoW private servers.

This whole thing feels like an exercise in IP control rather than anything else, the desire to keep something unplayable in a locker for a decade or more so you don't have any legal issues when you try to reboot it and/or you claim its part of your IP roster when you sell your company to another vulture to pick the bones.

>>714698124
OK, I'll stop hurting your feelings.

>>714673971
Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that videogames are products, which means that they are entitled to all of the protections afforded to such, included in Directives 2019/770 and Directives 2019/771 which are currently in force.

The falsehood of videogame that you purchased being something you "rent" and not own is coming to an end.

>>714698691
Apple and Google have a lot more to lose by being shut out of the market.

>>714674273
>#StopKillingGames organizers to take a firmer stance against hate groups and clarify the movement’s values
>clarify the movement’s values
As if the fucking FAQ doesn't exist. I cannot contain my hate.

You know, never in my life have I met an "Aviv."

>>714671361 (OP)
take notice how must of the companies and devs against this are not europeans

>>714699192
>I shall settle for nothing less than complete submission of corporations in face of VIDYA and Gamer as its prophet, WTFPWNED

p2p is cancer, it's only good (enough) for co-op

>>714674273
You want to stop them? Don't fall into their trap. Just start yelling about queers and niggers and trannies and whatever the fuck else they want you to do. Keep it professional, keep to the games. They win if they can frame it as
>THEY THREATENED SARKEESIAN AND NOW THEY THREATEN THE SMOL BEAN QUEERVELOPERS WHO CANT AFFORD TO MAKE A GAME PLAYABLE AFTER IT SHUTS DOWN THEY ARE JUST HATEFUL CHUDARINOS WHO KNOW THIS WILL KILL LE HECKIN ONLINE LGBTWTFBBQ DATING SIMULATOR THEY DONT CARE ABOUT GAMES OR PRESERVING THEM AND OH YEAH THEY ARE PROBABLY BIG EVIL PIRATES TOO
It was sad to see people fuck up gamergate because there was a deluge of slack jawed retards telling Sarkeesian to kill herself for taking away the tiddies or whatever the fuck, which let them frame the whole thing not about journalism or gaming but incel problematic behavior , where the industry saw it happening en masse in real time. This is what got you a decade of "woke" censorship and consultants from concerned twitterfags, do not repeat this stupidity playing right into their hands

>>714675004
>>714675159
stop bullying xer

>>714698889
>This whole thing feels like an exercise in IP control rather than anything else, the desire to keep something unplayable in a locker for a decade or more so you don't have any legal issues when you try to reboot it and/or you claim its part of your IP roster when you sell your company to another vulture to pick the bones.
That and forcing your customers to move on to the new thing.

>>714699364
They can't win, because they are not involved with this. They missed the window of time they could have occupied to subvert the movement. It's not their work that is going to go to the EU hearings, but that of Ross. He is going to be there, talking, if this goes into the European Parliament. It's going to be fucking hilarious because that man has the patience and autism of a saint to out-grind all of those kikes combined.

>>714699364
>Keep it professional, keep to the games.
Most important thing, shame most retards can't do that. Although I think that Chuddha's teachings have become rather popular, so maybe we'll get less autistic screeching that doesn't help the cause.

>>714673676
p2p is cancer, it's only good (enough) for co-op

>>714673694
it's not bait, just a retarded /pol/tard who can't use critical thinking

>>714698889
but anon if people can host private servers they wont buy cosmetic MTX and worse they won't buy the new game they push out next year!

>>714671361 (OP)

>>714674102
look at these two beautiful, peak white male specimens. god i'm jealous
both patriarchs in their own right

>>714699676
Seychelles???

OH WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE COR- I MEAN CHILDREN?

>>714672301
>Isn't it kind of unrealistic to force apple to make usb-c the charging standard?

>>714673881
>trying to experiment online interactions
>NOOOOOO DON'T SIGN IT I WAS TRYING TO LIVE SERVICE MONETIZE MY SHITTY ASSET SWAP NOOOOOOOOO

>>714696075
There's plenty of precedents that have been set, but the issue is, since there is no hard legislation, corporations just keep doing it and they are punished rarely if ever, only whenever a powerful enough individual or a company takes them to court over that grey area. This has to stop. They have swindled and laundered billions using this grey area. It is completely unacceptable.

>>714699871
The best bit about that is the other big players who the EU consulted saw which way the wind was blowing - albeit after the EU lent on them to actually pick a standard because they were stalling - and agreed ahead of the deadline. Apple just refused to get involved after the initial consultation and threw a hissy fit where they were told to suck it up. Apple kept bitching until the 11th hour when they bent the knee knowing full well the EU wouldn't fuck around and drop the hammer on them to make an example.

>>714699552
>but anon if people can host private servers they wont buy cosmetic MTX
Conan Exiles or even WoW debunks this.
But also let's not forget that, as presented in the initiative, community hosted server would be a thing when the developers decide to pull the plug and stop supporting their game. Which means it's not competing with them.
>and worse they won't buy the new game they push out next year!
Games like the Monster Hunter series or the Souls series debunks this.

>>714677315
this

>>714676957
Most indie games allow you to host your own dedicated servers. Always online centralized server indie games are the outliers here.

>>714699516
Yeah that's possible as well, sadly.
>>714699519
While this is hopefully the case, if the corpos wearing whatever idpol culture war issue as a mask manage to shift the conversation from the technical aspects of SKG to
>Uh look at these people's communities, their private servers are full of nazi shit that would be illegal in Germany and makes Jews feel unsafe, has pictures of hanging troons with bloody axe wounds etc.. is this who you want to be EU? You're gonna be doing massive harm to vulnerable people and letting very problematic, sometimes illegal content be used in all of these private servers/game IPs...d oyou want to be responsible for that hmm? Also something about jihadists too!
then people are arguing the merits not of the technical/legal aspects but that if they okay this they're going to have corpos backing every "concerned" group claiming well now instead of games just going away each company has to watch their games become some sort of chud haven completely out of their control where radicalization can thrive and conduct undesirable or in some cases illegal in EU member states is more likely to happen! Or...we could just you know, NOT do this and let IP holders being the single point of creation and moderation with a vested interest to protect their creation and its playerbase?

Not saying SKG can't win, but just be prepared for these kinds of arguments and narratives.

>>714699527
Chuddha is an improvement on what there used to be, but distancing ourselves from the tard quotient who refuse to be tard wrangled into not shitting up the entire thing will take some effort. I'm wondering how much pushback will uplift obnoxious stuff in the hopes of getting the autists to sperg out and make the movement look bad, but lets hope for the best.

>>714697712
>Can they make it less obvious?
Yes. But it costs too much money.

>>714700620
I know, that they are going to push the idpol angle hard, but it's not going to work because the public at large has massive idpol fatigue too. It would have worked in 2016. It won't work today.

>>714671361 (OP)
>"our community"
bitch, who the fuck are you? some nepo-hire?
fuck right off

>>714700112
Yup. That's the gist of it, really.
It's times for some lines to be drawn, of the "To here, and no further" kind.

>>714700737
I hope that's the case, but I think we have to prepare for
>This is the EU, not Burgerland
I'm not sure if they have the same fatigue in the same way. I'm sure there is some overlap, but considering a lot of the culture war garbage, the tourists that came here etc... were from a Murrica-centric viewpoint, I'm not sure if its universal for the simple reason that things eiither didnt happen the same way other there or there was some abstraction because it was happening elsewhere.
>We're not contending with the general populace, we're dealing with elected (and to a degree appointed) officials who have to consider how this stuff makes their member country and the EU look
For instance, if the argument is made that gaming servers will turn into an unpoliceable hydra of neo-nazi radicalization that is in violation of their "We won't holocaust again we promise" laws, then no matter if the people are tired of oversensitive shit this may be passed. Hell, for a long time Germany had gaming censorship laws on both violence and anything having to do with authoritarian aesthetics, as well as not being able to use Nazi iconography unless it was for "serious" historical context. where games like Wolfenstine had to be edited.

I don't understand why this thing is such a major subject of interest right now. Does anyone really think the EU parliament has the knowledge or interest to tackle this issue. Sure they'll talk about it after lunch (with 20% attendance) but that's about it. Nothing will come of it. And even if by some miracle it's seriously looked at, the EU is severely corrupt and corporations wil lobby against it.
And in the end I hope nothing come of it, I don't buy live service game and if you do I hope you get scammed.

>>714701654
EAT
MY
ENTIRE
ASS

>>714700957
You know they sucked their way to the top

There are solutions like dedicated servers but those who refuse to acknowledge the alternatives that let people enjoy games in 20 years from now are definitely led by greed.
>>714678756
Yeah, just like people in relationships calling their gf or bf "partner" (corporate, soulless term), sometimes using specific words is quite telling...

>>714700957
actual literal corporate shills, like it's openly available information on their website: https://www.videogameseurope.eu/about/our-board/
AND THERE'S BARELY ANY EUROPEAN COMPANIES IN "VIDEO GAMES EUROPE"
(there's 4 right at the bottom, and they're not actual companies, just trade associations or unions, for France, Germany, Belgium of all fucking countries, and the UK... meanwhile fucking Nintendo's on here)

>>714701693

>>714701482
This argument is rather easy to debunk given that all of the older games that possess private server hosting capability are still playable and do completely fine. And there are plenty of modern, existing games, released as recently as a year ago such as Palworld that permit the same exact thing. In fact, Palword rose to such prominence precisely because of how easy and accessible it was to set up a server to play with friends or distribute the game.

>>714701798
>kundratitz
>maslowicz
these polish folx must have a lot of experience in games!

>>714701654
>Does anyone really think the EU parliament has the knowledge or interest to tackle this issue.
The EU has put it on their official website of what a good example of an initiative looks like.

>>714702046
1000% polish jew nepohries.

>>714699535
P2p operated completely fine in Xbox360 major titles such as mw2 and there was zero lasting stignmatism of the occasional match getting stalled from a dropped host. It works fine

>>714701654
Video Games are Digital Goods.
Eu citizens own their perpetual licensed game copies, and they'll be happy, enjoying their owned purchase.

>>714677406
Your post suggests that you don't play video games and you just join the grift as a contrarian. I feel sorry for you.

>>714671361 (OP)
I hope this fails because I hate gamers

>>714674437
>Official servers for game get taken down, no more updates ever again
>Multiplayer switches to peer to peer system
>Exploit allows ransomware to be sent to other players 3 years later
>Mainstream media blames original devs for ransomware attacks just in time for their next game to release
I'm not sure who would actually be liable for damages, but it can happen with outdated software

>>714702102
That's actually pretty cool

>>714702618
>>Exploit allows ransomware to be sent to other players 3 years later
>>Mainstream media blames original devs for ransomware attacks just in time for their next game to release
Microsoft right now has COD WW2 on it's gamepass.
It has had an RCE for YEARS, yet you don't hear anything about it or Microsoft getting sued.

>>714701482
Identity politics stuff hasn't taken off to anywhere near the same extent in the EU. Even Germany, which is probably the worst offender. I really don't think it's something to worry about in this case.

>>714702618
>>Mainstream media blames original devs for ransomware attacks
dedicated servers have been a thing for 30 years, so go ahead and post an example of this happening.

>>714702743 (me)
Best I can find is a fat woman.

>>714702618
True, I got ransomware attack just the other when I joined a CS Source private server hosted by russians and lost everything but my computer! Fucking Valve...
Oh well, I guess I'll try out CODWW2 for now.

>>714702618
The companies can escape this liability with one neat trick.
Would you like to know more?

>>714702618
>what if I make up an extremely convoluted scenario to prove myself correct?
If they have dropped support for the game, it is no longer their responsibility.

>>714671361 (OP)
>>714671506
the solution is to disband the Eu, they need regime change they wish death to developers. We need a regime change they have weapons of mass developer destruction we must stop this at any cost, gamers cannot have weapons they can use against developers. developers are small group of people and we cannot allow gamers to grow in strength.

>>714673971
>Games are not physical products you can "own"
Then they aren't physical product I can steal. After all nobody seems to own it. I'm buying nothing that can be owned, so I'm stealing nothing that can be owned.

>>714702994

>>714672301
>Isn't it kind of unrealistic to expect companies too keep servers up indefinitely?
That's literally not what's being asked.

The Club by Ubisoft had an entire singleplayer mode that was like 20-hours-long. There was no reason for that to have been cut and disabled along with the multiplayer component.

>>714693673
their arguments are retarded but this ai reply is even more retarded

>>714702743
from what I remember the old CODs that Activision still sells on Steam have RCEs and they are yet to be sued.

>>714703362
But remember! Publishers and game devs companies invest ALL they can into making a completely secure platform when you're gaming online! These games HAVE to be online always for us to protect you, your data and your life!

you pathetic racists thought nobody would realize that "inggar" is just an anagram for the n-word
>b-but it has the letter a
you fucking predictable weaselly racists and your pathetic excuses for thinly failed fascist movements never fails to make me laugh, the "inggar" just happens to be after the word "kill"? Explain that one away you cowards. At least be honest about your racism.

will we reach 2 million signatures /v/ros?

>>714703709
1/10 bait

>>714703671
It's wonderfully ironic.

>>714703786
Eh... I wouldn't particularly bet on it, but there's a solid chance this gets another big boost in the final week of the campaign. 1.4 or 1.5 should be a reasonable expectation, at least.

>>714703709
Shit bros he found us, the 4th reich defeated again….

>>714701654
>Does anyone really think the EU parliament has the knowledge or interest to tackle this issue.
Yes. They've already done their homework.
https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/study-european-video-games-sector

>>714703793
his post appears to me from my perspective in my opinion to not be a serious attack onto the skg initiative but instead moreso a satirical writing

>>714702743
Activision actually pulled the Microsoft Store re-release of COD WW2 offline, while they "investigate reports of an issue" -- https://x.com/CODUpdates/status/1941286795565728085

>>714703671
>These games HAVE to be online always for us to protect you
i would love for them to make this argument, i would love it especially when one of the companies that fill their games with lootboxes and other predatory monetary practices
>we care for you goym! we want to protect you end little timmy that's why you need always online
>at the same moment the game is turned into a slotmachine meant to fleece little timmy who is 12 years old

>>714704119
Somehow took 4 days.

lmao
TOTAL CORPO DEATH

>>714679213
This game was a great example of the absolute bad faith game companies operate on. They insisted that it was impossible for that game to work offline. Until they finally acquiesced and added an offline mode.

Claiming that they can't offer an offline mode or private servers for games is impossible for me to believe anymore given rarely publishers speak the truth.

>>714671361 (OP)
The corporations are right, stupid customers should be exploited and scammed.

>>714671361 (OP)
I will not sign. It's simply a bad idea cooked up by a moronic e-celeb that would stifle the creative freedom of developers.

>>714700156
>full well the EU wouldn't fuck around and drop the hammer on them
It's so strange to see Americans hyping up the EU as some kind of consumer rights powerhouse. Everyone who actually lives (or lived) under EU rule knows how utterly corrupt, inefficient and incompetent they are. They are NOT the people you want regulating videogames. I thought /v/ was a libertarian board but when there's an opportunity to shit on Ubisoft suddenly you're all government shills.

>>714703439
>doesn't even know the name of the game he's pretending to be offended about
Cringe

>>714705096
Kill urself, Piratard

>>714705096
You can get (You)s with less words, anon.

So anons, what do you think will be the last "dead" game? Upon further thought, we're not going to count Korean MMOs for it since they probably won't need to comply with EU law since there are a shit ton of Korean MMOs that never leave the country.

>>714673881
I feel like the title of indie developer has become the current day musician. Every single untalented hack or unemployed trust fund rich kid is now an indie developer.

>NOOOO you're either a government shill or a corpo shill! There's no in-between! How dare you ask companies to be held responsible for holding predatory schemes or scamming people?! It's because of people like you that great studios like Mythic, Visceral or Westwood were destroyed! Praise publishers that have to deal with customers that want basic customers protection laws!
Suck it!

>>714672470
They want my money, not the other way around

>>714705779
depends on how fast the EU will act on this, we might be talking about 2028 games

>>714673971

>devs start making LAN modes again
>hamachi and garena make a comeback

>>714674808
Asmongold is, but Pewdiepie has such gigachad energy that he can make up for it threefold(at least).

>>714677089
they wont do that because they would lose all the monetization on skins etc since you could just enable custom skins. all this shit is just corporate greed and suits wanting to keep free content out of player reach. they created a fucked up mtx ecosystem for a decade and it all hinges on the premise of always online, connected to developer controlled servers.

>>714680247
>Unfortunately the initiative is not retroactive.
The initiative is there to get the EU to talk about it. The eu decides if its retroactive, and to what degree, not skg. Skg is just bringing the issue to the table.

>>714706980
>The eu decides if its retroactive
That's not how laws work, retard.

>>714706980
>EU decides it's retroactive
>concord is saved
>will live forever as the definitive guide of what not to do if you're making a game
>gayming is saved

>>714706616
>they would lose all the monetization on skins etc since you could just enable custom skins
Cases like Conan Exiles debunk this + the fact dedicated server tools would be put out once the devs decide they'll no longer officially support their game.

>>714699364
They can always false flag or just fabricate events that never happened. Theres no amount of self-policing that can prevent that from happening

>>714707103
Do you?
The initiative is a petition by citizens to get lawmakers (ie the parliament and the commission) to look at the issues written by citizens and legislate on it.
If the lawmakers decide to act on it, and decide that it's retroactive in cases concerning ACTIVE (so currently supported) games, then they'll do just that. And game companies will either comply, eat a fine or pull out.

>>714708381
Is this a bot post or just a pajeet? Laws are not retroactive, they can't just decide that actually you all are criminals now.

>>714672301
Serious question. Why are you so goddamn stupid?

>>714706980
this is actually true, the EU could decide that this is not only for games that currently started development but for any game that is still being sold, so it could be semi retroactive

>>714709130
That would also be hilarious.
Either they pucker up and comply or they go
>law effective as of Jan 28
>On Dec 31 we will pull the plug on all our online-only games
>massive shitstorm ensues

>>714698889
just look at gmod or tf2 mario kart servers, sure it's whacky fun and that has it's place but if you make every game like that it quickly becomes a creatively bankrupt cesspool of plagiarism where the every game has to have it's legacy fucked in to the dirt by a bunch of gay furry bullshit, through official means, it's one thing to have unofficial modifications, but now anyone who creates a game is asked to cede authorship control over to anyone by making an official tool that's like a GECK and endorsing it's use whenever they choose to end the online portion of the game, some games are even made to be limited experiences by design like mario 35 or curiosity what's in the cube, no man's sky might have even been like that once someone found the centre of the universe at one point.

>>714708381
>>714708474
EU doesn't allow retroactive law I believe. Though arguments about currently supported online games coming under a potential new law that forces dev to guaranty access (be it offline play or dedicated server tools) to said game once they end support is definitely a possibility, will be interesting.

>>714709427
EAT
MY
ENTIRE
ASS

>>714709407
i wonder if EA shutting Anthem is so they get ahead of this

>>714674273
Is this from somewhere or is this the new >>714673881 ? The Dexerto article isn't pulling up anything and google just returns back this thread

>>714683725
so just outlaw modern technology? cloud computing, AI and immense commercial grade computing power exists whether you like it or not, the gap between commercial and consumer grade hardware is so much bigger than it was in the past and that gap will only grow, you're demanding that we never develop as a culture and express this technology through artistic means as an interactive medium

>>714709427
Fair Use Doctrine.

>>714709512
it won't be ''retroactive'' if the game is still being sold

>>714709726
>>714709584

>>714674273

>>714672301
Sup dipshit

>>714709741
i'm not concerned about fair use, like I said that already exists in tf2 and gmod and companies can choose to do something about it or ignore it as they desire, my point is that not every game is meant to be this community creative endeavour, and by enforcing this philosophy of democratized hosting you're essentially every game ever made ends up looking like littlebigplanet, artists should be free to create art without being forced to hand over authorship to other people, which is what you're doing when you hand over backend tools with every game that's been made.

>>714673971
The park is in my fucking house.

>>714702002
Trying to perceive their argument is that for the moment its development and the server browser is under Palworld's devs command. A game that allows a user to create private servers (even something like Minecraft, Conan Exiles etc) is still able to be browsed by the official client. If you tried to say.. make a Conan Exiles server where you could go up in the ranks to unlock SS uniforms and turned all evil bandit camps into Happy Merchant stereotypes who stole your resources with every hit, dungeons into synagogues etc... your server would be delisted at best, maybe your accounts banned depending on what their EULA said about shit like that. THis would not necessarily be the case with a private server totally decoupled from Funcom's official system or if the game shut down. I think that's the argument they'd make compared to the current status quo.

>>714707847
While they can always do that, the amount of credibility it gets from random third parties is dependent on the scale. Everyone knows there are assholes on the Internet everywhere, but the difference between a handful of shitty comments and a complete deluge of harassment is significant, especially when the other side's point was
>all these incel manchildren gamers hate women and tell us to go back to the kitchen and that we're not real gamers and threaten to rape us and only want big tits in games and...
only for anons to deliver thousands of examples as if on cue. Hell, Moot had to ban harassment bullshit by proto-tourists here and it caused the schism leading that part of the community to focus on Infinity where they could continue their behavior

>>714710037
We're are gonna bully the million dollar corpo and there's nothing you can do about it, shill.
EAT MY ENTIRE ASS

>>714709726
Exceptional gaslighting, please explain why Diablo 3 can't be played offline?

>>714675004
>I'm peeing on you! Why are you mad? Does it make you uncomfortable?

>>714672301
>this is the kind of low-quality bait that nets you 34 (You)s these days

>>714709650
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePci_R9Hk2k

>>714702102
Thankfully they haven't stopped finning, we'd lose so many votes.

>>714710037
You can't want free market self-regulation and expect customers to comply with increasingly anti-consumer practices. You don't get to decide how your customers should play the game they purchased from you.

>>714710294
how do you play pokemon go offline? in your mind what kind of ship of Theseus game are they even supposed to deliver? just something that vaguely resembles the game they made? just a static map with the same character model?
the point i'm making is that video games as an interactive medium are inexorably linked to the hardware they're made on, if you make them on server farms and cloud computers you end up inventing features like texture streaming, huge simultaneous player counts, shared large online worlds, ai integration that just isn't something made on the infrastructure of consumer grade hardware

>>714710667
>if you make them on server farms and cloud computers you end up inventing features like texture streaming, huge simultaneous player counts, shared large online worlds, ai integration that just isn't something made on the infrastructure of consumer grade hardware
Nice buzzwording, for your next post you could use something like "generative" and "data lake".

>>714710667
Explain why Diablo 3 can't be played offline?

>>714710584
of course I get to decide because I'm the one making the game, If i make a racing game then it's a racing game and I'm making that decision because I have creative control over the game, some games like littlebigplanet play with the idea of giving the player creative control and letting you design your own maps and whatnot, but this as legislation would essentially but every online game ever in the same kind of genre as that by mandating I hand over creative tools to make something like a server browser.

>>714710814
SKG isn't retroactive, it only applies to games made in the future

>>714709713
>is this the new 714673881?
always assume that if there's no sources.

>>714711084
Why can't Diablo 3 be played offline?

>>714709726
>>714710342
Makes me remember there was genuine concerns when Capcom launched MHWorld and people thought it would be an always online Live service game.
Once they finished supporting it with content and moved on to Rise and more recently Wilds, guess what? You can still play it both online or offline. Hell you can still play all the past titles if you still have your copy and a working console!
Companies can offer the solutions SKG demands, most already do.

>>714706432
beautiful, isn't it?

>>714711283
If Capcom can do it then there's no excuse why the lobby can't do the same

>>714697825
>Yes you are lol.
Not that anon but the only one turning this into eu vs us is you. The other anon just stated a few facts and you got very sensitive about it
>>714697858
>I’d rather play coop and multiplayer games
Maybe a few wont be made, but every other game would have to give some option for players to host their own server instead of leaving multiplayer completely dead. So way more multiplayer games will survive in some way or another if this passes

>>714710993
What are you going to do if I decide to drive in reverse on your racing game? Revoke my ability to play the game? Delivering creative tools isn't what's asked. What's asked is the ability to play the perpetual licenced copy of the good I purchased either by offering an offline mode or dedicated server tools.

>>714676957
Imagine if AAA could die forever?
Maybe they shouldn't have made games for no one with budgets they can't afford?

>>714684152
Okay, then stop using words like "buy" or "purchase" in favor of "renting" and add a clear "expiration date" to everything you rent. Why does sony need to redefine the word "purchase" in their T&Cs? That's scummy as fuck.

>>714711283
>Companies can offer the solutions SKG demands
how do you make cloud computing and AI work on consumer grade hardware, if you make a game that's a technological expression of the immense computing power that doesn't exist in consumer grade hardware you can't just code up an exe file for someone to run, these services depend on the complex infrastructure that's only available to large firms, and that gap between professional and consumer grade computing solutions is only going to get bigger in the future. how do I make a dedicated server tool for you if I've got a very specific kind of cloud computing server structure, are you just going to outlaw AI or any kind of modern technology?
>>714711624
dedicated server tools like that will inherently affect the genre and legacy of the game, so if it's not in your creative vision to have a game that looks like littlebigplanet where the bones of the game can be bastardized in to basically anything and everything and end up looking like a gmod server. you're essentially demanding a kind of authoriship over someone else's work, and demanding everyone make the kind of racing games you want to make where everyone that plays the game can make their own racetracks, and make them as whacky or as different from the creator's vision for the game as possible. you're denying every single person the opportunity to have true authorship over their own work

These threads are a (you) goldmine.

Hey guys remember how Crackdown 3 was going to change the gaming landscape thanks to the "cloud" calculating the real time physics destruction?
What's that, they dropped that?
And the system they had was worse than Red Faction: Guerilla?
Um...

>>714712113
>how do you make cloud computing and AI work on consumer grade hardware
"THE CLOUD" is just a remote server, i.e. a drive with an operating system.
"AI" is just a bunch of algorithms that runs on a computer.
Now stop trolling and kill yourself.

>>714712113
Anon there are no fucking "AI online experiences" and even if there were, fuck that. AI takes time to iterate into a new and more complex form, once it's like that it's trivial to run. Even accepting that, it's unlikely to be worth bothering with for an extended time.

>>714712113
What games can't offer either an offline solution to play or community hosted servers with actual good reasons? Why do decades old games that have significant singleplayer elements like Diablo 3 require you to play online? Why does Overwatch 2 or Battlefield 2042 that offer plays with AI bots not have offline modes with said bots? Why do fighting games which are entirely focused on multiplayer can still be played offline with bots or with friends locally?
Locally hosted server do not affect your game's genre/image or whatever unless you designed it to be easily modded by your community.

>>714712319
a large AAA online game with modern features just can't be run on consumer grade hardware, the technology gap is too wide. it's just unworkable, it only works on professional, extremely expensive computing solutions that are immensely powerful and immensely expensive. trying to get it working on consumer hardware would be a gigantic clusterfuck because there would just not be enough power, too much latency, the entire game would break, the machines used to run the game are built using different architecture than consumer grade stuff, you're asking the impossible
>>714712542
>Anon there are no fucking "AI online experiences"
there literally already are RPGs that use ai responses for dialogue, and as time goes on and AI is developed and invested in this will grow and grow
>>714712940
pokemon go? live service games? games developed in the future? pretty much any game that's developed to utilize features only present in commercial hardware?

>>714689278
Not really, communists tend to be the biggest corporate bootlickers on the scene.

>>714713158
This fact confuses and irritates the americano.

>>714673148
This is extremely antisemitic.

>>714672301
>"nooo, you can't reasonably expect developers to maintain servers forev-"
Then they should build games with offline modes like they used to. Ain't my fault they don't want us to own our games.

>>714713124
>to utilize features only present in commercial hardware?
...such as?

>>714712261
I think that was the initial pitch. And they either ended up not using cloud at all, or it was only used in multiplayer or something like that.

>>714713124
>pokemon go? live service games? games developed in the future?
I own the perpetual license of the copy I purchased and I expect to be able to play whether you support it or not. If you disagree, refund my purchase and fuck off.

>>714713124
>pokemon go? live service games? games developed in the future?
Locally Hosted server or offline play.

>>714713265
Yeah.
It's great, isn't it?

>>714713353
look at something like microsoft flight sim, it uses a gigantic database of servers to stream the game world, do physics calculations, these servers are managed by AI coordination across instances that have to be perfectly synced up and working at a low latency, the kind of DIY dedicated servers SKG propose are simply incapable of delivering the same game
>>714713590
>>714713739

how do i even provide an offline version of pokemon go? do i make a new game that looks like pokemon go? you're literally just asking me to make a new game at that point that doesn't have the same features, what does this new ship of theseus game even look like?

>>714713810
>how do i even provide an offline version of pokemon go?
That's a you problem.

>>714713810
Please answer my question. I was asking about what features are only present in commercial hardware. No, simple scale up by numbering up is NOT a feature only present in commercial hardware.

>>714713810
>the kind of DIY dedicated servers SKG propose are simply incapable of delivering the same game
that will be the customer's problem I suppose.

>>714713810
>Microsoft Flight Sim
Actually good question. The game relies on streaming assets from a library of 100s of terabytes so how would Microsoft provide a "reasonably playable" version of that offline

>>714713920
no that's a you problem because you're the one making the demand, a demand you don't understand or comprehend and you're trying to outlaw technology based on your lack of understanding
>>714713960
>I was asking about what features are only present in commercial hardware
I listed them, synchronous cloud based organization of servers with AI coordination is only available at an enterprise level - not consumer grade, you can't make a game like flight sim work on consumer grade hardware, go open a book and read about every difference between personal computers and the kind of machines enterprise level firms use if you want to learn more
>>714714180
SKG make it the developer's problem because they require a developer to provide a playable version of the game for consumers, which is a material impossibility today, the only solution they offer in the FAQ is to say games in the past did it, so they're essentially just outlawing any modern technology

>>714714283
Lower fidelity low LoD tier assets

>>714713124
And all of those AI responses are not iterative, they are from an existing architecture that is trivial to run.