Why do Morrowbabbies pretend that the casualization didn't start with their crappy game first?

arena and daggerfall are literally more casual-friendly and accessible
im not even joking

>>714682934 (OP)
some cope about everything being handcrafted, even though it's an embarrassment that someone designed quests that boring and dungeons that linear

>>714683296
>arena and daggerfall are literally more casual-friendly and accessible
Thats cope, even boomers back then noticed morrowind casualization

>>714682934 (OP)
65% of Daggerfall's skills did absolutely fucking nothing. The game was an empty buggy mess randomly generated slop.

>Oh no I can’t put useless skills in major and put money in a bank, this is casual crap

>>714683431
>>714683454
/thread

>>714682934 (OP)
Daggerfall had very little depth with most of it's mechanics (language skills are all fucking gimmick tier), and was incredibly easy but it had a lot so people didn't like that Morrowind was smaller.

Because most normalfags started with Morrowind because Daggerbvll had time Limits for its main quest and that made them shit their diapers. It’s easier to shit on the games coming after for being Emil fanfiction action slop but at least their fans are honest about it. Only 70~ IQ morromidwits seriously try to convince Daggergods that their kikebrides fanfiction is totally super interesting because his “lore” is “complicated” forgetting that people with actual lives don’t care that in a schizophrenic blogpost kikebike revealed that dingus bingus ate bringus bongos cock forming the schlarfembarf ruins.

>>714683431
>>714683454
>65% of Daggerfall's skills did absolutely fucking nothing.
So like real life
>NOOOOO I DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT SKILLS TO LEVEL, EVERY SKILL SHOULD ACCOMPLISH EVERY PROBLEM

>>714682934 (OP)
Morrowind is honestly an entirely different game from Arena and Daggerfall; the core gameplay is basically nothing alike. It's sort of like comparing Fallout 1 and 2 to Fallout 3, 4 and NV.
It's natural that people aren't going to be analyzing the changes between games that are so obviously different.

>>714683718
>hurr just like real life
so dont play videogames then dumbass, then everything will be like real life

>>714682934 (OP)
>this is so causal bro i can't even take out a small loan of a million dollars that i never have to pay back and have infinite money 10 minutes into the run

i think its time to admit that at no point was TES ever a hardcore series
its always been the role play first

>>714683718
>So like real life
This is such a retarded argument that I'm going to give you an opportunity to switch to a different one.

>>714682934 (OP)
TES was always pretty casual and were closer to escapist adventure games than actual RPGs
Morrowind is just when they started catering to consolefags who can't even be bothered to use simple skills in dungeons

>>714683412
>where are lycanthropes
Obviously he wouldn't know but they came later and were more balanced than Daggerfall's busted werewolves
>Where are the horses and carts
Unnecessary since you can just leap across the world and take silt striders
>Where is the ability to buy houses and ships?
3 player houses that require you to spend resources to get
>24 hour shops
A reasonable gripe, Morrowind feels the same day or night
>Any city to city travel
Casual as fuck
>Non-icon based inventory system
Worst thing about Morrowind to be honest
>People of Morrowind too poor for banks
There are vaults in a few spots, but honestly probably, most people in Vvardenfell are living on ancestral land, shitty shacks, or are part of a Great House

>>714683718
>NOOOOO I DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT SKILLS TO LEVEL
>"Mmm wonder what I should lever, Long Blade or Nymph language?"

>>714683670
>time limits
Not once did I miss a time limit in Daggerfall when I tried to do the main quest. It's only a problem if you fuck around and avoid the main quest.

>>714682934 (OP)
Ywnbaw

I don't mind most of the casualization in Morrowind from Daggerfall, but the one thing that does kinda piss me off is the fact you can't break down doors anymore. Mages can cast unlock, theives can pick locks, but barbarian or strength builds are just fucked unless they break immersion and take one of the first two routes. Also why is there no disarm trap spell?

>>714682934 (OP)
because its their first RPG

>>714683916
In fairness, I think the Dunmer actually are way too poor for a game that hands out 10K+ value items like candy.
Dremora aren't THAT strong; it's hard to believe that no one hasn't just found 20 guys to help them kill dremora on the promise of splitting the profits from selling their daedric weapons.

>>714683718
Yes, cutting useless skills and replacing them by usable ones is a good thing actually

>>714682934 (OP)
there are many facets to the games each with their own degree of "casualisation" (including casualisation into non-existence)
certainly morrowind was casualised from daggerfall
most of these changes were for the better, some were for the worse, some didn't go far enough

>>714684367
You mean like how Oblivion did it to Morrowind?

Daggerfall and Arena are both just casualized DnD

>>714684367
yeah, I'm glad we've streamlined all those useless weapons skills in one handed/two handed and all of the diplomacy skills into speechcraft.

>>714683916
Banking was a freaking gimmick in Daggerfall honestly. Gold weighting you down can just be ignored by putting it in the wagon (which is casual shit that allows you to pick up everything in a dungeon)
Like pretty much all these praised Daggerfall mechanics. Nice idea but they end up being a mere gimmick

>>714684543
your tabletranny garbage has been nothing but a massive detriment to video games

>>714682934 (OP)

You ain't gonna give a shit about what you just said when the Morrowind remaster comes out next year.

arena and daggerfall were both shit. In fact the only good game in the entire elderscrolls series is morrowind. Oblivion and skyrim are also shit.

>>714684282
The value of items is way too inflated for me to believe that would be the realistic worth. Notice how most Dremora at low level use nothing but dwemer weapons or dreugh staffs or something and it's only when level scaling kicks in that you start getting daedric weapons constantly so I'd expect that would be the same in a real situation.

>>714684660
4chan is just a casualized version of a classical greek forum. Your post is just a casualized scribble on a stone tablet. Your life is just a casualized version of what your ancestors 1000 years ago were doing

>>714684829
microsoft isn't going to remaster morrowind because even they know its unsalvageable

i actually recently have been playing arena+df+morrowind a bit. daggerfall is great and unironically has more satisfying combat than morrowind as an archer anyway. i'm missing 50% of my arrows in mw, and there's no feedback at all, but tbf my daggerfall unity is modded so i think the feedback might be from a mod idk. it just feels bad shooting a rat point blank and the arrow just phasrs through him, i'd rather it just did lower dmg

>>714682934 (OP)
It was their first TES game and they think history starts when they become aware of things.

>>714685172
Daggerfall was better designed all around. Morrowind suffers a lot from being rushed.
People talk about how Daggerfall has useless skills but the entire stealth part of the game is nonfunctional in morrowind.

>>714682934 (OP)
do you know what my main gripe is with Morrowind?
music doesn't change when you enter dungeon/building
every other main TES had that, daggerfall has some fantastic dungeon music, Morrowind's merry tune is only interrupted by combat

>>714684046
> You are fine as long as you do what you are told.
Drones gonna drone.

>>714684876
This. But include Morrowind to the list of shit TES games

>>714684223
I did always think it was weird you couldn't break doors

>>714684506
Oblivion added no skills tho, it just removed shit
>>714684556
Lmao it’s no way near what I said tho. Morrowind has more weapon skills than Daggerfall and more types of weapons. But the horror, they merged swimming and running into one skill
The Etiquette/Streetwise thing was another gimmick. Yeah it’s sad that it got cut, but I’d rather have Armor skills, Enchant and Alchemy than this shit

>>714683825
>>714683889
>NO VIDEO GAMES CANT TRAIN ME FOR THE REAL WORLD, JUST DELUDE ME INTO THINKING EVERY SKILL IN LIFE IS WORTH TRAINING

>>714684932
Yes, inflated values is definitely a problem.
Like, sure, the Daedric Crescent is probably incredibly valuable. But is it really more valuable than the entire city of Balmora? I don't think anyone would be too upset if it was only worth 18000 instead of 180000.

>>714684942
this post goes hard not gonna lie

>>714684223
That’s a weird thing with not only TES but also other RPGs where bashing locks disappeared as a feature for no reason

>714685597
>

>>714685495
True, every single one is shit

>>714684223
I always thought it was strange how traps don't have levels like locks do. A random dipshit straight off the boat can disarm a trap on a level 100 lock wihtout any difficulty.

>>714685326
>entire stealth part of the game is nonfunctional in morrowind.
idk what u mean but i'm playing as a catgirl thief with points in stealth lol so maybe i bricked my character idk. desu i have not been able to make good use of stealth yet, enemies see me too fast and i can't lockpick or pickpocket anything without being spotted instantly. maybe i just need to cheese level stealth a bunch. i wanna do sneaky backstab crits and stealth archer memes

>>714685839
If you kinda think about it you can kinda make a stretch. Like maybe most people who really wanna lock stuff figure that a level 100 lock will filter most of the retarded ashlanders, orcs, nords and zealots that dot Vvardenfell, so harder traps just aren't needed. We know that traps are all magically charged too, so we don't even really know by what mechanics traps are armed on locks

>>714685437
No reason to be upset about missing the main quest if you don't ever plan on doing it so it's kind of a moot point. First time I played I met the agent at the tavern and then fucked off into the woods for 20 hours.

>endless daggeretard seething and coping
every time

>>714686140
Sure, we can invent reasons for it being that way all day, but it is still strange that the strongest of daedric locks has traps that are just as easy to disarm as that urn with the Mentor's Ring in the starting area.

>>714686224
Morrofags and Daggertards should come into alliance against the true annoying casuals, Skyrimbabies and Obliviontards

>>714686472
oblivion fans aren't too annoying right now, since the remaster has all of that game's flaws fresh on everyone's minds

>>714686472
>the true annoying casuals
All you Bethesda faggots are. Including the Fallout fans

>>714686367
well like I said, we don't even know by what means traps are armed, considering they're magical they may use soul gems, but that also wouldn't explain why they're so easily disarmed by a simple probe. I mean maybe it's literally just a simple switch hidden deep in the lock.

>>714686618
go play your gookshit "rpgs" then and stay out of these threads

>>714685326
both Morrowind's and Daggerfall thief related skills are atrocious
>Pickpocketig
Daggerfall has a realistic percentage unlike Morrowind, unfortunately it is also fairly useless there
>Sneaking
Daggerfall requires absurd amount of skill point to pull it off as melee character, to add insult to injury, you need a mod so your character actually moves instead of shambling along trying to sneak
>Lockpicking
you get ONE try in Daggerfall for one door after that you will be kicking that door 10 times before guards arrive
>Bow
roughly the same deal, except Morrowind doesn't allow you to enchant your bow properly

>>714686472
The tens of fans won't make much of an impact.

>>714686790
>Bethesda beaner thinks Bethesda games are the only wrpgs

>>714686648
Yes, I get that. What I am saying is that baseless speculation doesn't really accomplish anything, since it is nothing more than fanfiction at the end of the day.

>>714686841
Everyone plays a potion-chugging mage in Morrowind so those things do not matter at all.

>>714682934 (OP)
Morrowind is more complex than Daggerfall mechanically

>>714686961
then why don't you tell us what games you like since they're so superior in your opinion? You seem to be toeing around mentioning names, wonder why

>>714686995
how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?

>>714686472
I actually really like Daggerfall, but I won’t just pretend like half of it’s mechanics aren’t broken

>>714687129
Same as normal; I rarely eat breakfast. On the other hand, if I had eaten breakfast I'd probably feel a bit bloated.
The one missing the point here is you, anon.

>>714687021
really?
I used magic to cure illness and teleportation in most of my playthroughs

>>714687059
Pick any early 90s dungeon crawler like Might N Magic 4 or Eye of Beholder. All better than this gay series

>>714687028
The " Always Use Best Attack" option would like a word with you.
Morrowind is the most forgiving TES game ever made.

>>714687330
How old are you?
INB4
I am a youngster who despises new games.

>>714682934 (OP)
Nobody cared about TES before Morrowind. It's basically the first game.

>>714687458
Directional attacks is a good example of Bethesda implementing an idea poorly, and then cutting it in the subsequent game because they are too lazy/stupid to improve it.
Having multiple attacks with different properties would have done wonders to make combat less tedious in Oblivion and Skyrim.

>>714687587
Daggerfall and Battlespire are kino, but yeah Morrowind is peak. Oblivion is fucking dogshit in comparison. It's so bad I don't consider Shivering Isles a part of it. Haven't played Skyrim yet

>>714687587
most of the names for locations and gods were created during 1st and 2nd game, all derived from fans
delusional faggot

>>714687587
> It is basically the first game.
Community Notes.
It is actually the third numbered entry. There are also adventure games that used TES as a setting made prior to Morrowind.

>>714687585
Old enough to play game past multiple generations and not make lame excuses for not

>>714687881
but muh lore written outside of game is non-canon o algo

>>714687021
Alchemy is too OP in a game that is already too easy for me to care about it
My main gripe with Morrowind is how magic is near mandatory. But I guess that’s the curse of non-party based RPGs. Either magic is near mandatory and being a barbarian sucks or magic sucks and being a barbarian is a good option

>>714687925
So very.
Explains the crankyness.

>>714687330
i just installed might n magic 6 and 7 actually, been in an rpg mood, gonna try em out. you think the older ones are better? i tend towards 3d

>>714687863
Skyrim is certainly one of the games ever made.
It has plenty of neat ideas, but most of them are poorly implemented. The game generally feels like Bethesda was trying their hardest to keep you from being strong or creative.

>>714687721
There was no saving Morrowinds combat.
They had to start over from scratch.

so im only like 4 hours in, should i reroll to a mage then?

>>714688064
Yet Morrowind fans do the same to Oblivion and Skyrim fans

>>714688114
NTA but world of xeen is the best imo. you're still fine starting with 6 though

>>714682934 (OP)
I want a remaster. Fuck it. Just upscale and sharpen that shit with basic controller support. $30 free money, Todd.

>>714688523
literally just play OpenMW. Why would you spend money on something that's already been done for free?

>>714688523
Download OpenMW then you braindead retard. You probably we're retarded enough to pay for the System Shock 2 remaster and Doom classic in the summer sale

>>714688523
hello shitskin zoom zoom

>>714688523
Play it in VR. Meeitng Vivec in VR is surreal

>>714688628
>>714688654
>>714688665
I want to play Morrowind on my ps5. I have a laptop right here with the OG and openMW of fucking course.

>>714688863
Then play it on the laptop, what's the fucking difference?

>>714683412
Morrowind is a different region and designed as such so some of these complaints are retarded. Where are the werewolves and horse and carts? lmao sorry they didn't make the exact same game for you.

>>714688863
OpenMW supports controllers as I recall
there is even android version

>>714688863
plug your pc or laptop into the tv n set up controller binds?

>>714688523
Thankful to not be plagued with gay thoughts like this anon

>>714687021
potion chugging grug you mean
spell casting is worthless with how many reflects and botched resistances you encounter

>>714689045
Okay I'll look into this, thanks anon. Linux wins again.

>>714688523
>playing Morrowind with no TR
Yeah no thanks

>>714687587
>nobody cared about TES before Oblivion
FTFY

Morrowind was dead on release and dead now

>>714688275
That is hardly true; the problem is mostly just one of feedback and guidance. Bump up the base hit chance a bit, make animations for missed attacks, and not provide the player with a weapon most characters are dogshit with, and I think most people would be fine with it.

>>714689342
You are right. I considered using spells such as unlock as proper casting but hardcasting fucking sucks ass.

>>714684829
morrowind requires a full on remake because as the game exists now casuals who have only ever played skyrim aren't going to like the dialogue system, or means of travel. I do think the game could get away with dice rolls for combat and spells now because of the popularization of BG3, they would just need to make feedback on misses better.

>>714689753
No, it wasn't. Daggerfall was sick as hell because it felt like we were getting so much closer to real 3D worlds.
MW fixed many complaints of DF at the expense of cool shit like climbing.
Shortly after Morrowind was the advent of 3D mmorpg like Everquest and Asheron's Call. Both of those early MMOs owe heavily to the Elder Scrolls

>>714689753
>Morrowind was dead on release and dead now
morrowind single handedly saved bethesda from going under and informed their decision to make their next game Oblivion around console hardware

>>714688705
Morrowind in VR is so fucking cool. Getting drunk and stumbling around Narsis and the catacombs was an experience.

>>714690362
They can now add voice acting.
Shame none of the NPCs have anything interesting to say.

>>714690897
I have an old PSVR1 helmet, can I get that to work?

>>714691435
>They can now add voice acting.
I don't think you understand how much voice acting that would require, every race and gender would need to record duplicates of a SHITTON of lines because of how that shit works. there's a reason why they changed how NPC interactions worked in oblivion with the addition of full voice acting

>>714682934 (OP)
Because streamlining is not the issue, per se.
I'm not mad at Morrowind for taking away shit from Daggerfall that served no purpose.
Skyrim wasn't wrong in simplifying aspects of the game Oblivion ruined either.
People complain about Oblivion and Skyrim because they're just worse games than Morrowind, whereas Morrowind is better than Daggerfall.

>>714689950
It is clearly true. They started over from scratch and have never looked back.
No other company has adopted Morrowinds combat.
I don't know what you are basing your conclusion on other than nostalgia.

>>714691702
>I don't think you understand how much voice acting that would require
There already are ai generated packs actually, and they're pretty serviceable.
Better get used to the idea of most background voice acting being handed off to ai in the fairly near future anon.

>>714691838
We can all agree that Oblivion was a mis-step into the abyss. I see the attempt at correcting the problem in Skyrimjob with much less aggressive scaling but it still sucks because of dragonspam.

>>714691702
Every VA would have to spend a week just reading wiki articles.
A remaster wouldn't cut it. They would have to do a full on reboot. If you are going to do that may as well just make a new game.

>>714689950
>Bump up the base hit chance a bit,
>and not provide the player with a weapon most characters are dogshit with
they don't even need to do this, hit chance is generally fine if you just use a weapon you're proficient in. if people get filtered by such a simple thing then let them, molding a game's design around the worst players is exactly how we ended up with Skyrim in the first place. just add more feedback on a miss so people and the problem is solved IMO

>>714692171
>No other company has adopted Morrowinds combat.
No game since 2002 featured real time stat based combat?
Did you just miss literally every hack&slash of the 00s?
>hurr but muh camera angle

>>714692252
>man so stupid that he needs a robot to read exposition at him in a videogame with simple writing thinks AI is the future
lol

>>714691838
I couldn't get over who sterile and lifeless Morrowind was.
Minimal ambient noise.
Static NPCs were the norm.
After the initial "That's neat" reaction to the overworld it just started feeling samey.

>>714692743
>it's sloppa and i don't like it
>therefore greedy executives won't push for it
Lmao

>>714682934 (OP)
Daggerfall is like living a second life. Bethesda should still be making games like that but it was also a good idea to make the open world adventure concept more streamlined. and as we've seen thus far if Bethesda didn't do it then nobody would have.

>>714692743
You have a sensible chuckle but it would work. Normgroids would love Morrowind with an AI voice reading out some of the quests.

>>714692934
oh yeah because everything greedy execs push for become the norm eh kiddo? You still buying online passes for new games? you have your digital sex robot read this post out-loud to you too?

>>714692491
Which one are you thinking of?
> You know the thing.
I didn't know Joe Biden posted here.

>>714691473
You'll need some kind of software to bridge it to your PC. TrinusPSVR was the only service I got to work but that costs money, so you might be able to use a free alternative maybe, but I'm not sure.

Honestly the PSVR1 is not the best once you've used better headsets, but I don't want to just tell you to buy another whole fucking headset just for one game you haven't even sampled in VR yet. Only getting wordy with this because, especially if you go to places like Narsis or Old Ebonheart, performance can kinda take a hit if your PC isn't beefy enough. Combine that with the PSVR1 experience itself and believe me when I say go into this shit with a forgiving mindset. If you still like it enough, consider a Quest 3 on credit or something if you don't want to spend much money all at once.

>>714692743
>not using the ai packs for the goofs like the fighter's guild head in akamora having an orgasm when she tells me she has orders
ngmi

>>714692443
i took archery as primary and have been using it almost exclusively and i still miss constantly it's annoying af

>>714682934 (OP)
Morrowind had a hard development schedule and still managed to get most of it right. It's sad we don't get boats, or banks where you can put money in or out, and Todd wrote the Legion questline which is the worst in the entire game, but mostly, Morrowind tried its best. And succeeded.

Again, from a (at that time) dying company, full of jank, a game where you play a whatever hero in the fucking middle of nowhere, full of weird quests and nintendo hard, it's no surprise that it is as loved as it is now.

Yes, it got many issues. It's a miracle it worked as well as it did. Todd wrote the Legion questline. But yes, it is, ultimately, a flawed masterpiece.

>>714692991
Well the save system was so poorly coded it is like life in that you never know when it will be game over.

>>714693136
NTA but diablo clones come to mind, like the Sacred games

>>714693136
Sacred? Titan quest?
Literally every single game with real time combat and a hit rate effectively uses the same fucking system as Morrowind, in regards to what you take exception to.

>>714693328
Never heard of sacred.
Can you play Diablo in first person?

>>714693317
>A whatever hero
You are the prophesized hero of legend

>>714693436
Can you play in first person in either of those games like you could in Morrowind?

>>714693450
>>714693614
You play in third person like in Morrowind

>>714693163
Yeah I can tell that it's junk. I will check out some of these strange drivers there hass to be a free alternative. Thank you.

>>714693182
what race? you can get a pretty sizable skill bonus at the start on specific races, like I'm playing a Redguard with a longblade so I started with a +15 to that skill right at the start. either that or you're trying to fight things that have better defenses than you have offensive skill

>>714693494
Nah Azura just gaslit the emporer and a random prisoner for the meme.

>>714682934 (OP)
Daggerfall is literally just Starfield. Morrwind is a 100% hand crafted adventure.

>>714693614
No, as I implicitely preempted in my previous post. What did you think I was mocking you about camera angles for?
The perspective makes no difference to the combat system itself, it's real time with stat based success.
Unless you want to argue that Morrowind has two completely different combat systems depending on whether you're fighting in first or third person, and that the mod that lets you play in isometric adds a whole new third one.

>>714693736
khajiit, and i'ms happening with rats and the little leaping worms. it's fine just not particularly satisfying combat

>>714693450
Sacred 2 was a German diablo clone, but instead of playing a Barbarian or a Druid, you play an Angel with big breasts and all her gears are high heels, I'm not kidding, literally all her gears are high heels, or an elf which is barely less skimpy clothed than the angel.

Then you get here and there, you fix every singly issues in the elf kindom and the elf kingdom capital full of scantily clothed elves, and then you go into the MEDIEVAL kingdom full of humans, and then you go into the SAND kingdom. The open world map is roughly 250 km2 and full of quests.

It is a game that history has (wrongly) forgotten,

>>714693494
You are a Prisoner of fate

>>714682934 (OP)
they do. They even go so far as to pretend morrowind was more popular on sexboxxx than PC lmao.

>>714693691
So the answer is no about playing in first person.
So they didn't use Morrowind style combat.
> Well they kinda used something similar.
So you can't name a single game that adopted Morrowind style combat at all. Not surprising.

its a game thats better to talk about than to play.

>>714694017
Dope ass game. Takes a minute to figure out but it's a lot of fun.

>>714694534
if you want a first person game then legend of grimrock
If you um actually some other mechanic I won't be replying

>>714694010
>Khajit
yep that'll do it, you don't get any inherit bonuses to Marksman from the race so your early game will be rougher. consider investing gold into trainers to level the skill, early on it's dirt cheap and even just 5 levels should feel like a big step up early on

>>714694010
There is a reason why stealth archer is a meme.

>>714693897
> Haha I knew you would fall into my trap of pointing out how I was wrong and preemptively said nuh uh. You should see the look on your face over getting outplayed.
You still haven't named a game that adopted Morrowinds combat post Morrowind. Mental gymnastics aside.

>>714694978
Do you think Morrowind has two separate combat systems? If not, I already provided you with perfect examples.

>>714694286
put your shit inside you disgusting slob

daggerfall is a roleplaying/larping game. morrowind is an action game.
hope this helps.

>>714695107
If the difference between Daggerfall and Morrowind is it being action rather than role playing/larping, how the fuck do you quantify the huge gap between Oblivion and Morrowind? Is Oblivion not even a video game, by your reckoning?

>>714695067
It is the same system you can play in first or third person in real time.
The hitch is having RNG determine hits being a core function.

You can find many games that have some overlap. You will find zero that use that system.
> Ackshually I found a Bulgarian game from 2008 that did.
I honestly hope you do

You can find many examples

Can a TRchad give me a hint as to where the thieves guild is located in anvil

>>714695470
I have checked with the Government Oversight of Classifying Shit Committee.
They are both RPGs.

I'm not even giving you a >(you) OP

>>714695470
Oblivion is when Todd said to his devs "alright, you've got vision, imagination, I like that, but what if... you just did a random fantasy open world? Make it british too." And so Oblivion is painfully british fantasy open world, despite the previous lore telling it shouldn't be.

And then Skyrim is when Todd said "that's great, I like it, but I just saw LOTR, and I fucking loved it. Vikings are awesome. Just make a game with vikings and dragons". And so Skyrim is painfully vikings with dragons, despite the previous lore telling it shouldn't be.

>>714695782
>daggerfall and oblivion are RPGs and Morrowind is an action game
You've reached a level of contrarianism I didn't even think possible.

>>714695874
Both are LOTR knock-offs

>>714682934 (OP)
enjoy your computer generated goyslop, boomer

>>714695875
They are all RPGs. Don't indulge your tism on the subject. I have the Undersecretary on the phone and if you continue with your current heresy actions will be taken. Strong actions.

>>714696019
All TES games borrow from Tol

retarded faggot OP.

how's openMW these days?

>>714696284
I'm using it right now to play, feels pretty good but I don't really have a frame of reference because the last time I played Morrowind original I was a literal child

>>714696019
We know. Todd (who wrote the Legion questline in Morrowind), is famously known to screech at any of his devs to make it more like LOTR. It happened in Oblivion, it happened in Skyrim.

Todd is always chasing the new trend. That's why Starfield has a Cyberpunk 2077 city and a cowboy city, Todd is creatively bankrupt. He just saw the CP 2077 and said to his dev "do the same thing". Any good writing in TES must go past Todd, you avoid Todd, you circumvent him.

>>714689753
t. clueless zoomer

>>714696602
I'm pretty sure there's record of Michael Kirkbride saying he had to pitch ideas for the style and plot of Morrowind by relating it to Star Wars. So I think it could be said that all the interesting stuff in any TES game was added in spite of Todd and not because of him. Still love Todd though

>>714695854
That's how you start a Morrowind thread, though.
I like to heal myself. How people play without that is crazy. I suppose they just go nuts with potions.

>>714682934 (OP)
oh, boy. another episode of zoomer lecturing older generations on what's casual and not.

>>714695531
>It is the same system you can play in first or third person in real time.
Then clearly it's still the same system if you can play in third person or isometric instead.
Which means it's literally the same system as every hack&slash and even most mmorpg of the 00s.
Having a diceroll with modifiers for hitchance is extremely commonplace, and no amount of seething and nitpicking is gonna change reality.

>>714690486
>>714690745
>>714696642

Morrowind sales at launch
>95,000 (2 months after release)


Oblivion sales at launch
>1.7 million sales (1 month after release)

Elder Scrolls became relevant with Oblivion. it's why Oblivion was remastered and Morrowshit is still collecting dust elsewhere.

Nobody plays the dogshit game, steam charts have shown this for ages now and you guys cope with OpenMW to cope with its pisspoor player count to account for the total of 10 losers using that shit.

Sold like shit
Reviewed worse
Won less awards
Is played by fewer people

Those are all facts. And the biggest funniest fact.

Significantly more casualized compared to Daggerfall than Oblivion was compared to Morrowind. You faggots lost. Dice Roll combat lost, wikipedia hyperlink tier dialogue systems lost.

Cope

>>714695105
>groundpilledCHADS make houseissies seethe
enjoy that loading screen :)

>>714697582
you obviously weren't there. On release the game was incredibly good because everyone was doing the quests and didn't care about stats at all. The way it's meant to be played™

>>714695107
you can do some serious larping in Morrowind, I've spent hours in some of the cities doing quests without equipping a weapon once. the reputation system is still old school and hardcore, knocking your rep down to below 10% with certain people based on your guild and House choices. Daggerfans put a lot of value in the cities having gated walls and shops with schedules, but Vvardenfell being a small island gives the player headcanon more room for weirdness.

>>714683296
People think they're hardcore because they're painful to play. They're just painful to play, Morrowind is largely more elaborate than these games, and if we consider mods, Morrowind has more content than these.

>>714697582
>Nobody plays the dogshit game,
You are right about this. The very early Elder Scrolls games were niche games for PC enthusiasts who were enjoying the cutting edge of computer role playing games

>>714698081
>the skeleton has 3k polygons
I still remember that magazine ad

>>714697326
> It is the same except where it is different.
You technically aren't wrong in your statement. Thankfully in your answer you acknowledge you are incorrect about my point.

>>714697582
>steam charts posting for a game that launched before steam even existed
what is this mental illness called

>>714693317
>and still managed to get most of it right
Not even close

It was an acceptable and ideal amount of casualization. Daggerfall is too autistic even for 99% of autistic gamers.

>>714698750
Considering I've literally repeated your argument to make you notice its inanity, this effectively means you're wrong, not I.

>>714682934 (OP)
It started with Arena. Every TES game is a shittier clone of Ultima Underworld

>>714699832
My point was nobody has copied Morrowinds combat.
You seem content to point out games that have 75% overlap.
That is not good enough

You can be mad.
You can declare victory.
You can launch an invective filled tirade
One thing you will not do is find a game that used Morrowind's RNG based first/third person real time combat system after Morrowind.
There are none. Nobody was that stupid.

>>714683296
This is correct.

>>714700464
Are you the guy who defended Microsoft's DLLs in that other thread? You have the same amount of blindly being stupid, not listening to any arguments, attacking everyone telling you to chill out, and basically being a 80 IQ nigger proudly attacking a walmart and being one step away from jail.

Aggresively stupid, the best description for it. Or aggresively, proudly retarded.

>>714697729
>debunk his claim that Morrowind somehow made TES popular by posting literal numbers showing it not even breaking 1 million sales months after release (not even 100,000 sales lmfao)
>HURR DURR, ZOOMER YOU WEREN'T THERE ON RELEASE

Gonna need to reply again, that attempt at a rebuttal from you, much like Morrowshits combat was a
>MISS

>>714699147
So why aren't people playing it now? Right, because they'd rather play Skyrim. LMAO

>>714700926
>you can be mad
>you can launch an invective filled tirade
Good to see these are the two things you chose to do instead of providing examples of games that deep down you know do not exist.

>>714696994
Funny because kirkbride wasn't even in the same state when morrowind's development started in earnest

>>714700926
I see you went with invective filled rant.
Excellent choice.

Keep stacking Ls.

>>714700464
>You seem content to point out games that have 75% overlap.
I contend 100% overlap, based on the fact you denied the different cameras in Morrowind made for different combat systems, therefore different cameras in other games can't either.
You got fucked over by facts and your own words, deal with it.

>>714683431
SO TRUE DAGGERFAGS WILL SEETHE

>>714701082
openMW clients don't show up in steamcharts, that said obviously Skyrim is going to have more players it's a retard proof babies first RPG with one of the biggest modding scenes to ever be

>>714701286
You can play in first person in Morrowind.
This is the challenge you accepted.
You are failing.
You will continue to fail because the game you are looking for does not exist.
It does not exist because it was a stupid idea.

You must be hungry because you are eating L after L.

>>714701459
So you have no numbers. Therefore you concede the only numbers that exist, show Morrowind as being even more dead than Starfield.

Correct?

>>714686140
I'm not gonna put a level of thought into it that i know the devs themselves didn't.

>>714701459
Why are you entertaining someone who is being obviously disingenuous?

>>714701459
>it's a retard proof babies first RPG
That's Morrowind actually, as proven by it being a considerably more gimped RPG than Daggerfall

>>714701586
They are all playing o. A secret server.
Trust me bro it is in the thousands no tens of thousands. It is actually bigger than Skyrim now.

>>714701686
Disgenuous = Asking for statistics/numbers

Absolute state of morrowbabbies.

>>714701686
because the line of discussion can be interesting if someone who isn't a baiting moron decides to engage with it

>>714701272
if only there was a way to communicate over long distances

>>714701797
They don't do well when asked for observable metrics.
It is all anecdotal and bellyfeels with them.

>>714701656
probably true desu, but it's fun to speculate shit. It's good for the brain

>>714701941
>muh metrics
what do current playercounts have to do with the FACT that Morrowind saved Bethesda and informed their decision to release games with a console first mindset?

>>714701219
>>714701274
No one fucking care about Morrowind's combat. The fact it was never copied is like saying no video games ever copied Ultima 4 menus, that makes no fucking sense, it's an empty criticism

It's definitely going into the aggressive retardation argument. You need to be a special kind of retarded child to believe the argument "no one ever copied Ultima 4 menus" is a cogent argument to anything.

>>714701082
>muh steam numbers
Good thing we established that Baldurs gate is 100x better game than skyrim slop.

>>714701941
So how can you make any sort of an argument around metrics when you're using something unobservable?

Why even introduce OpenMW at all in the argument if you can't back it up you fucking faggot?

>morrowboomers be like yo this gameplay is lit

>>714702186
>man obsessed with muh numbers can't read a two sentence post properly
lmao couldn't delete fast enough bozo

>>714702098
If nobody cares about it when did you put up a 45 minute fight about it.
> Oh that wasn't me I am a different anon who just happened by.
I will allow it to end yo.. the other anons humiliation.

>>714702106
I'm fine with that.

BG3 > Skyrim > Morrowind

Sounds about right.

>>714702048

We already posted stats showing this simply isn't true. No game that couldn't even break 100k sales within its first few months saved anything. Oblivion made Elder Scrolls the franchise it is, not Morrowind.

>>714702387
League of legends and Fortnite are best games of all time

>>714701797
I don't care about the statistics, I just know what you're about. I'm deliberately doing the teacher's pet shtick and calling it out because I get off on it.

>>714702048
Wait, I actually just checked.

DAGGERFALL SOLD MORE THAN MORROWIND AT LAUNCH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>NOOO, Morrowind saved Bethesda by.... selling worse than the prior entry

>>714702387
>we posted the numbers showing this isn't true
numbers are not everything, this is straight from Todd Howard himself

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/saved-by-morrowind-striving-for-starfield-todd-howard-and-the-story-of-bethesda

>>714702512
I play both of those games too.

And I concur, both are superior to Morrowind also

>>714702564
the prior entries to Morrowind were Battlespire and Redguard anon

>>714702667
atleast we confirmed you are mentally retarded

>>714702368
Because I happen to like teaching retards on the internet. And there are no easier targets than retards showing their anus for all people to laugh.

It's easy target, it's easy clout. I'm laughing at you, people are laughing at you, and I'm drinking a beer right now. Please do go on. I can do another two hours, easily. What other retarded ideas are in your nigger brain? Morrowind is too brown? The color palette of Morrowind was never copied by other video games? Cliff racers aren't in World of Warcraft? We never got a World of Warcraft x Morrowind video game? In Overwatch they never did speak about Vivec? Go on, please do be a retard.

>>714702626
And then he goes on to call oblivion the lightning in the bottle and literally calls Skyrim their crowning achievement.

If you wanna use Todds words, you must admit in that same breath that Skyrim is the defintiive Elder Scrolls experience made by Bethesda.

You're not gonna just cherry pick the two paragraphs he spends on Morrowshit and ignore the rest of what he says

>>714702815
I was just quoting your post and agreeing with you >>714702512

>>714682934 (OP)
FUCK Bioware and FUCK Bethesda, no exceptions

>>714702915
>And then he goes on to call oblivion the lightning in the bottle and literally calls Skyrim their crowning achievement.

never said otherwise, you're the only one here trying to push some dipshit adversarial dichotomy. the fact remains that Morrowind saved the company from closure, and the Xbox port opened the doors to their further successes with Oblivion, FO3 and Skyrim
>you must admit in that same breath that Skyrim is the defintiive Elder Scrolls experience made by Bethesda.
>skyrim defender can't spell definitive

lmao anyway it's certainly their most popular release but as everyone knows sales does not necessarily mean quality.

>>714702891
If you want to continue your humiliation ritual be my guest.
I am good but if you still feel you have some dignity left to lose have at it.

>>714703248
>never said otherwise, you're the only one here trying to push some dipshit adversarial dichotomy. the fact remains that Morrowind saved the company from closure,
That's not even what he says

He says, they felt the company could close, they had released 2 flops in a row after daggerfall (perhaps more, I don't know their full release cycle but I know redguard for example was a massive flop) and then they took another risk with Morrowind. They felt as if it had saved them but there's no sort of objective fact surrounding it.

He literally says in your quote
>We felt the company was going to go out of business
>we made some bad games and we made some mistakes

I read that to mean they made 2 shit games, were terrifed that they would make a 3rd but thankfully Morrowind turned out good breathing life into the company that had a string of bad games prior to it.

The ACTUAL facts are that Elder Scrolls was not defined by Morrowind, nobody on the internet thinks of "Morrowind" when you say Elder Scrolls which if we go back was the INITIAL argument that you changed into being "saved" - Here >>714689753 with your response changing it to "saved" >>714690745 for some weird reason.

When people online hear Elder Scrolls, their brain goes to Skyrim.

Nobody gave a shit about Morrowind on release (Sold worse than Daggerfall at launch btw) and nobody gives a fuck about it now.

Cope

>>714682934 (OP)
I'm starting to see a trend here. "hardcore" and "real rpg" experience is just code for boring an tedious. Interesting.

>>714703694
>umm actually the person in charge of the company saying the game saved them isn't actually true because he didn't present the exact financial metrics when he said it
lol
>The ACTUAL facts are that Elder Scrolls was not defined by Morrowind
I didn't say this
>nobody on the internet thinks of "Morrowind" when you say Elder Scrolls
never said otherwise
>the initial argument
I was refuting the idea that the game was a flop, which it was not otherwise it could not have saved the company.
>B-b-b-b-b-b-but I didn't say it was a flop, I just said it has always been dead!
I'm sorry that you have such a humiliation fetish that you behave in a way that constantly gets internet strangers to call you a moron

>>714703815
i see real RPGs as using a turn based rulesets. hardcore RPGs have distinct consequences/reactivity for your characters and actions, and fairly deep party building
TES are more hack and slash adventure games with single characters and little in terms of reactivity

>Stealth and crime are fundamentally broken in Morrowind

>>714701816
i think you summed up a good half of replies to bait

>Morrowind sold 4 million by 2006
>Oblivion sold 3.5 million by 2011
It's over for Oblizoomers

>>714706271
*gulp* e- erm... is he right, Oblivibros?

>>714701570
>You can play in first person in Morrowind.
You denied the different cameras in Morrowind made for different combat systems, therefore different cameras in other games can't either.
There's no getting around this, you condemned your own argument.