>Nintendo and Microsoft are against it
>Sony isn't
The platform war is over.

>>714817457 (OP)
Sony is right there under nintendo lol

TOTAL SONY DOMINATION

TENDIES BTFO XCHUDS BTFO

snoyjeet pedos truly are retarded

>>714817457 (OP)
>ESL faceit group
Why the fuck does an esports organizer need a say in this? They're neither publishers nor devs.

>retard tries to cut from the list to hide Sony
>still leaves Sony in the image
kek what a retard

>>714817457 (OP)
Source of this list?

>>714817457 (OP)
Why isn't Valve there?

OP please check your eyesight.

>>714817457 (OP)
OP is a blind retard (he's back again...).
Also I doubt many of the companies on this list are genuinely 'lobbying' against SKG. This seems like misinformation/rage bait made to garner clicks.

>>714820000
Statement against Stop Killing Games: https://www.videogameseurope.eu/news/statement-on-stop-killing-games/
List of Video Games Europe members: https://www.videogameseurope.eu/about/our-membership/

>>714820050
Huh? Valve is the exact type of company that's nimble enough to deal with basically any regulation that will come out of this.

>>714820050
Because Gaben is based.

>>714820050
they would have to make games to have a say in it.

>>714820050
You can't own steam games so SKG is irrelevant to them

>>714817457 (OP)
I keep seeing this chart, but never any sources. Can anyone actually confirm if these companies are actually lobbying against this?

In a perfect world, no game would be live service.

>>714821687
live service games are never worth playing, so I don't get why people want to save them.

>sony isn't

>>714821770
Finely crafted single player games are way better than online games. Live service games are just bait to sell season passes and drive up Fomo

>>714822053
exactly. just let them die.

>>714819712
That's the power of being a private company, once you go public it's all over

>>714821770
Non live service games are becoming a rarity. This encourages the production of more. Or would you prefer to wait until it's all live service?

>>714822618
This is how they die

>>714823498
This is just asking more support for live service slop.

>>714820050
They don't make games anymore

>>714823657
no, this is how retards get them to stay online forever

>>714820726
?????
Where is the lobbying?

>>714817457 (OP)
>dumbasses still falling for the bait

videogameseurope is not the official representative of these companies.

>>714824235
I'm talking bigger picture. Live service becomes less desirable to publishers. How is that not a win?

>>714824324
Membership fees. Those are members.

Wait
Where is Konami?
They usually are considered some of the biggest of bastards, why are they not here?

>>714825042
But where is the lobby? Membership means much of nothing. All I seen is the owner of the website make a statement.

>>714824549
who is then

It's easier to control what people do with your game when you make them go through your own servers to interact with the game. It's vendor lockdown. They will produce the slop and you won't be able to preserve anything because they keep you at a leash.

>>714819712
valve doesn't make any games why the fuck would they care

>>714825193
Isn't Konami mostly Pachinko now except for Yugioh and Silent Hill?

So is the source 4chan -> reddit -> twitter -> youtube -> 4chan or?....

>>714825275
Because they make profit off old games dying and new games being released.

>>714825365
They pretty much have stopped pachinko for a very long time now, and it was never handled by the video game lads
Last I heard of them, they were actually trying to focus on bigger games, that MGSremake also is done at their own studio

>>714825368
The source is >>714820726

>>714825229
Take a big ass guess. Hint. Hint. there are foreign/not native companies on this list..

>>714825469
No I mean the source on lobbying.

>>714825578
The members list give money to that org. That org made a statement. All the information is there.

>>714825578
its all public on their site

>>714817457 (OP)
Where is Tencent and Nexon?

>>714825827
dont think chinese/korean studios are allowed to join.

>>714825793
I tried going through that site earlier because it looks like someone just created a site for the lulz. Like there is no useful information anywhere there. So wheres this lobbying at?

>>714825969
https://www.videogameseurope.eu/about/our-membership/

>>714826602
Yea that still doesn't tell me wtf are they even doing.

>>714817457 (OP)
The billion dollar companies crying out as you strike them. Imagine how powerful the common man is against the behemoths. Don't fuck with the little guy you fucking corporate rats.

*burp* next up is the er... the Stop Killing Games initiative which uhhh *brap muffled by bowel movement muffler* seeks to uh.. is requesting that all "Video Games" to be made available to uh to be played at all times...hum... Err personally I did not even know that folks were still playing those Pac men and Donkey Kong

>>714826747
you are super slow. read the archive.

Why would Valve be elegible to join an European game consortium? At least, Microsoft, Sony, Zenimax, Nintendo and most of the others have development studios there.

>>714827245
literally nobody plays nintendo in europe

>>714817457 (OP)
>List of companies lobbying against SKG
Whats the source?

>>714820050
valve is the only triple a company that is fully SKG complaint

>>714827335
I didn't say that, I said they have development studios there. Nintendo European Research & Development is their division that creates their (terrible) in-house emulators, and other technologies. I thought they had something else, but it was just NERD.

>>714817457 (OP)
>Sony isn't
it isn't an exhaustive list retard. chances are they are seething like the rest of the big publishers

>>714817457 (OP)
Games are not physical products you can "own". They are walks in the park, a softball game with your friends, a trip to an amusement park. They are just things for entertainment to pass the time.
You don't gain full ownership of the park or ball game because you spent $20 on a ticket. Funny how that works huh?

>>714820726
>it's not even nintendo proper, just NoE who have been good goys to NoA since the wii u era
>meanwhile SIE is fully on board against SKG
lmfao

>>714827245
you dont have be a developer only. publishers are welcome. steam is technically a publisher.

>>714817457 (OP)
Here's your (You) anon. Take it.

>>714817457 (OP)
You're blind and an imbecile.

>>714817457 (OP)
They don't want you to own anything. They're shitting their pants on how fast SKG is now gaining support. They're trying to turn this into another gamergate and I'm afraid it's actually working.
Game journalists are making Asmongold and Pewdiepie the face of the SKG movement.

>>714827625
>you dont have be a developer only
I didn't say that, Microsoft is not a game developer (or at least not since they killed their Microsoft Home division). Read again.

>>714827750
trying to meme it into a movement is insulting, it's a fucking EU citizen's initiative

What will EU do when they stop selling certain games to EU because of this?

>>714820050
what do all these platform holders have in common, and which one is the odd man out
think really hard about this,
>sony microsoft and nintendo all own platforms which run a locked down OS connected to their networks
>skg's arguments about allowing private servers with no say from the first party platform holders are in conflict with consoles which have to abide by child safety laws
>valve is on pc, and has no reason to care because you can run whatever you want on a pc

>>714827894
Same thing the EU did when the iPhone wass no longer sold after USB-C was mandated.

geg

>>714824324
There isn't. It's dramatubers stirring drama as usual. It's just a list. They can't help themselves stir drama since that is the only thing motivating them.

>>714827894
only gacha games can do this because EU is a minority and they don't have operations there in the first place (hence the "global" servers).

other companies like sony and microsoft cant really tell EU to fuck off

>>714828021
people forget the other regulations the eu mandated like gdpr
you can still buy an iphone in the eu, but it won't have all the features of the global version
you can still sell call of duty in the eu, but there may be call of duty (full) and call of duty (single player only) in the future

>>714827750
>Many developers are now urging #StopKillingGames organizers to take a firmer stance against hate groups and clarify the movement’s values. “Preservation without protection is meaningless,” said Aviv Salinas, co-creator of Blood Nova. “We need to preserve games and the people who make them.”
>As the campaign approaches legislative milestones, its ability to remain inclusive and principled will determine whether it becomes a force for good or another flashpoint in gaming’s long-running culture wars.
That article is a load of fucking sjw sludge.
They're really playing dirty now, how the fuck do we stop them?

>>714817457 (OP)
the corporate lobby is attempting to control the narrative by making sure all active stopkillinggames threads in the catalogue are their false flag posts which either contain factual inaccuracies or promote infighting via eceleb discourse, and then flooding the thread with nonsense bot posts to make it impossible to have any actual discussion in hopes people just get bored and move on. because they've already lost in the court of public opinion
JUST SIGN THE PETITION EU BROS. save video games and make these psychos continue melting down

>>714828197
>They're really playing dirty now
>now

>>714828197
It's incredibly funny seeing the left, who calls themselves anticapitalist and anti establishment fall for every single one of their tricks time and time again.
We can already see the context shift happen in real time, it's so fucking sad.

>>714827375
More like GOG. Steam isn't compliant with SKG... yet. Gabe isn't stupid to make a statement on something that could change though.

>>714828553
NTA. CD Projekt is not an AAA company.

The gaming industry just laid off tens of thousands of jobs this year alone, it's not in a good state at the moment. This movement is just another kick in the teeth while they're already down.
These demands are absolutely unrealistic and are impossible especially for indies to implement.

>>714828197
>People want to drag down another movement for idpol/culture ware shit
These fuckers just can't help destroying everything with their self centered all or nothing attitude

>>714828738
What indie developer creates live service goyslop?
Other than Jason Rohrer, that already releases all of his games to the public domain.

ok but seriously what games are there that even benefit from this whole movement? The vast majority of GAAS are shit like mmos or multiplayer games that only have value in a live environment full of people anyway.
Who cares about being able to run around alone in a dead mmo? You can't even play something like a moba or shooter without people to play against.

>>714828738
>These demands are absolutely unrealistic
allowing games to be playable offline in single player mode if you cant be bothered to allow support for private servers is hardly unrealistic

>>714827570
Way to go overboard with this. You don't get ownership of the park, sure. But you can play ball in your house or literally anywhere else. You can own a ball to play the game. When you buy a book, you don't suddenly become the author, but you can keep the book you purchased as long as you want. A digital game, in the end, is a physical product. Whatever bits are stored electrically that make up the game. Usually they came in a floppy disk, CD, DVD. They didn't magically disappear since they started being transferred over the net.

>>714828627
The creator of Cyberpunk 2077 and Witcher 3 isn't AAA?

>>714828941
>ok but seriously what games are there that even benefit from this whole movement?
Any game that is singleplayer or is perfectly playable singleplayer where the devs/publisher force always online when it doesn't need it like the new Hitman games

>>714829148
No. Major publishers pump out more AAA games in a single year than CD Projekt has produced in their entire lifespan.

>>714829281
>No. Major publishers pump out more AAA games in a single year than CD Projekt has produced in their entire lifespan.
Lmao. What games does Valve release in a single year basis pray tell?

>>714817457 (OP)
>The Gamer city smouldered, burned down in the wake of lobbying. The ground was covered in a Wiimote's depth of Dew and revised EULAs. The chuddish cries of its petitioners now silent and still as its ruin was overseen by the very investor of its destruction.
>The Gamer wars were finally over.
>"There is nothing more reviled than the Gamer," said the CEO.

>>714829401
Fair enough. I should've also added that move the amount of cash that Valve moves, thanks to Steam and their live-service garbage like Counter-Strike 2, DotA and some other titles, like Team Fortress 2, and that one that flopped, and I can't remember the name right now. CD Projekt simply cannot compare.

>>714817457 (OP)

>>714819712
Guess which list they are on?

>>714828197
>>Many developers are now urging #StopKillingGames organizers to take a firmer stance against hate groups and clarify the movement’s values.
the typical lefty bullshit to try to take down any movement

they did this with occupy wallstreet and everything else since then
>ok guys we need to do something about these rich evil bankers
>"UMM WHAT ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS THOUGH?"
>"UMMM WHAT ABOUT MY GAY BUTTHOLE SEX??"
>"DID YOU JUST CALL ME "GUY"???"
>all the normal people leave and the movement falls apart

>>714829607
CD Projekt is in the billions, let me say it again billions, revenue. They have over 1 thousand employees. They're certified AAA as they can get. They're just not AAA+ like some.

>>714830304
Epic Games alone has 4,000 employees. And the only things they're in charge of are Unreal Engine, Fortnite, and fucking Rock Band 4. I wouldn't even consider them AAA either.

>>714825275
Neither does sony

>>714828894
so this doesn't just affect live service goyslop
think of pretty much any multiplayer indie game
deep rock galactic, warhammer darktide, stuff like that
a lot of times they'll use middleware for their games because it makes them significantly cheaper and easier to produce
skg kills this and forces you to create your software in-house to avoid licensing issues when ti comes time to eol your game
so this will probably kill the indie multiplayer market

>the evil bosses turn out to be massive weak faggots

>>714830304
when cyberpunk launched it did so poorly the gdp of poland measurably dipped

...

>>714829837
Making shitty games =/= killing games

>>714830626
Implementing Direct IP, LAN, self-hosting or dedicated servers is not arcane science. Not my problem, LMAO. By the way, I hate Stop Killing Goys because I think that people who fund GaaS cancer should get fucked every single time, but this argument is retarded.

>>714830853
*Start

>>714830853
yeah its not impossible to do but that 30 dollar game you were looking forward to might end up costing 60 dollars if you want EVERYTHING done in house

>>714830518
They are though. And they did do things. Epic Games was AAA since the times of Unreal. They made their name with Unreal Tournament much like Valve did with Half Life. They did it with Unreal Engine much like Valve did with Source (they even outpaced Valve on this one, since Valve hasn't released their engine to be used by developers and get revenue for them). Fortnite is what gives them revenue from gaming much like Valve does with Counter Strike 2 and DotA. You're using an example that resembles exactly what Valve has done, just on the dark side of things.

>>714830943
>You're using an example that resembles exactly what Valve has done, just on the dark side of things.
The amount makes the difference. Epic Games hasn't seen a 30% cut of pretty much all purchases on PC. Valve manages much more money than them.

>>714817457 (OP)
This is yet another page in my book of grudges. I'll remember this when Sega expects my to pay $70 or $80 for the next Sanic or Yakuza.

>>714830934
You don't need to open-source the entire game, just the server shit.
Ubisoft did it just fine a decade ago, fuck off.
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/game-platforms/ubisoft-releases-open-source-code-for-i-world-in-conflict-i-servers

>>714830626
They aren't asking for a full games source code and assets where that middleware would be the largest issue.

>>714817457 (OP)
based retard

>>714825827
Level Infinite is tencent

>>714831183
>its viable for 1 game so it must be viable for all games
>my best example is a game from 2007
this is why i say ross is grossly misinformed on the industry, he treats gaming in 2025 like gaming in 2005.

>>714831114
>Valve manages much more money than them.
That doesn't make them not AAA anon. But if you want to use your own standards, go right ahead.

>>714831201
yeah they JUST want a stripped down server binary that can just do the bare minimum to get you in game, i get it
sounds great for pc where you can run a server on your mom's pc and be fine, right?
what if your game was made for playstation?
sony's not just gonna open up psn to connect to self hosted private servers, because they have to deal with stuff like child safety laws and moderate their platform

>>714831627
They could just remove needing to connect to a server and have the game run as is.
It would suck for multiplayer only or focused games but would still comply with SKG

>>714831778
yeah it wouldnt work at all for multiplayer only games, that's why nintendo microsoft and sony are shitting their pants right now

>>714831448
World in Conflict already used a lot of middleware, retard. They weren't forced to open-source any of that.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/World_in_Conflict

>>714831516
>Fatshark is AAA just like Valve because they also create a successful live-service goyslop

>>714832045
The retard probably thinks you need those to run the server.
If he is arguing in good faith then he clearly doesn't understand how any of this shit actually works.

>>714832213
no actually this retard posted client-side stuff as examples of middleware because he has no good examples of games that eventually went to private servers and is just arguing in bad faith

>>714828826
honestly wouldn't be surprised if "game as a service" thing companies do is some kind of proto-communist bullshit.

>>714832345
so basically what skg is proposing is your server must have 0 middleware because anything you're not licensed to redistribute will make your game skg-noncompliant
and that's just not enforceable you can't make companies license their software for public redistribution, that would be an insane disregard of copyright and IP law

>>714832143
It is what it is. You don't like it, that's your problem. Technically, I don't like it either but that's beside the point.

>>714832345
>>714832490
NTA: Yes, if you can afford to make live-service goyslop, you can afford to make your own server infrastructure based on already existing open-source shit. In any case, I hope Start Killing Goys loses because I hate seeing retards who fund corporations who hate them being rewarded with keeping at least a bit of their investment, but whatever.

>>714817457 (OP)
You know who I don't see on there?
Valve

>>714832490
>that would be an insane disregard of copyright and IP law
GOOD!

>>714832359
If that's the case then it would be retarded on all accounts, like how is that proto-communism?
The thing is live services IF they succeed make ungodly amounts of money so companies are doing a gold rush over them, like they did with the other live service shit like MMOs.

>>714832646
yeah thats why im thinking its going to be struck down immediately, this regulation can also be applied to pretty much any SaaS which will fuck over literally everybody on the planet

>>714820050
They understand that if you screw over customers too much they stop forgiving you.
He ain't perfect
He technically doesn't let you "own" your games, but gets a pass because he provides a reliable service with reliable access and hasn't given in to pulling peoples libraries over petty squabbles.
But he understands that allowing companies to revoke licenses whenever they feel like it is not good for business.

And gabe likes getting money for selling people access games that they purchased.

>>714828085
why do people keep saying this? no shit piracy isn't theft, it's copyright infringement, RETARDS
this is how we end up with idiots on tiktok posting all the emulator sites and then wondering why nintendo keeps fucking them up

>>714828085
ok then, so you acknowledge that you don't own your games and that they're only licensed to you. thanks for playing

>>714817457 (OP)
>Only Westerntards and Japs are against it
And nothing of value is lost! Good riddance to them!

>>714832694
well it's definitely not capitalist, as there is no ownership of what you buy, and these companies are obviously anti-competitive as hell, while also having governments bail them out, when the free market demand that it is time for them to die.
if anything they seem to want to go back to a feudalistic style system where a few powerful people own everything, and everyone else is peasants living on their lands, only difference being it's the merchants not the aristocrats that are the lords this time around.'
I am just going to keep calling them communists because it gets under the corpo-shills skins.

>>714831448
Tera is playable because a gigachad employee uploaded the server files.
that's all it takes: upload the server files

>>714829551
I can't believe that guy's shitty writing managed to become a meme

how long until the sharties get this thread deleted to they can start a new one with the sony logo edited out

>>714833224
what if u upload files u dont own as the company
what then
thats called PIRACY and its ILLEGAL
but according to ross this won't be an issue because all games will be FORCED to have inhouse server files

>>714833362
>Not even the entire Sony
>Just SIE
Not the win you are looking for, tendie

>>714833209
Alright I get your argument, I guess we could get into what is and isn't "X"ism but that seems like a waste of time and doesn't affect your point.
>I am just going to keep calling them communists because it gets under the corpo-shills skins.
kek

>>714817457 (OP)
>The company that has no games doesn't care if they stop killing games

>>714830740
is this far retard still mindbroken because a lying aussie lost hard?

>>714833379
then strike deals to make the files uploadable. or pick another vendor that lets you distribute the server files.
it's that simple
not my fault that you refuse to run your business properly

>>714833624
Funny thing is they 3 running live services games but all support hosting community servers so they don't apply.

>>714833726
>hm i am a middleware company and i would like to do business with video games that will sell in the eu
>it looks like according to eu regulation i will be required to license my software for free public redistribution
>heh, well if you dont like it, just pick a vendor that will give their software away for free!

If there's a need, corpos will fund the development of open-source software to create middleware for online shit. Sony created a physics engine from scratch when Microsoft acquired Havok, and also open-sourced it.

>>714827626
>Activision/Blizzard
Didn't you niggers push a TOS change and revoke all licenses to games people purchased until they accept the new TOS?
>Bamco
Didn't you niggers fuck up Tekken 8 chasing trends and are trying to push weird AI training data key logging shit?
>EA
Didn't you all kill Origin for no reason and revoke licenses to force people over to the EA app only to then tell the people you force migrated to eat shit?
>Embracer group
Aren't you buying up old IPs to data mine the users?
>Epic
Didn't you kill the new Unreal Tournament game and remove it from people's libraries? I mean, it was free, but still....
>ESL/FACEIT
never heard of you
>Microsoft
Aren't you killing support for your OS versions that aren't ad serving spyware and forcing unrealistic hardware requirements?
>Netflix
Didn't you have multiple data selling scandals?
>Niantic
Aren't you a CIA front company that admitted to getting people to take pics of sensitive areas with rare pokedrops?
>Nintendo
Aren't you being sued for bricking systems in Brazil?
>Riot
Didn't you have a massive sexual harassment problem?
>Roblox
Don't you have a massive pedophilia problem?
>SEGA
Aren't you trying to sell core game modes as "DLC"?
>Sony
Didn't you almost pull movies purchased for "expired licenses"?
>Squenix
Didn't you add a tos term where if I hurt your devs feelings you can pull the license for my games?
>Superlec
Who?
>Take2
Didn't you change your TOS to allow massive spying and data selling through your "anticheat"?
>Ubisoft
Your actions literally caused this
>WB
Are you that concerned about not being able.to rip "kill the justice league" from peoples libraries? Shit was a flop.
>Zenimax
You are Microsofts bitch, shut the fuck.up

>>714834067
So which serverside middleware would you be talking about that would cause issues?

>>714834216
U KNOW ANON I DONT FUCKIN KNOW BECAUSE I DONT HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR FUCKIN SERVERS
AND U NEVER WILL EITHER
IF U WANT U CAN GO GOOGLE GAME SERVER MIDDLEWARE AND COMPILE A LIST

Ironically SKG is going to hurt small developers much more than large ones. It also begs the question of where console games and games where the distribution channels can be interrupted fall into this.

>>714834406
Any developer that creates live-service goyslop deserves to be screwed, almost as much as the paypiggies who personally fund them.

>>714817457 (OP)
>nintendo
I'm guessing thats NoA being scum like usual
since real nintendo still maintains downloads for digital purchases even when they kill the stores for old platforms

>>714834679
it is not even NoA, it is NoE

>>714820050
Because Valve doesn't make games anymore

>>714820050
Why should they be? You can play all their games.

Even Artishat can still be played.

>>714834679
>>714834704
Nope, its the entirety of Nintendo.

>>714830601
Sony makes hardware and Valve doesn't
Valve and Steam have no point or reason to exist other than scamming PC troons

>>714834406
>Ironically SKG is going to hurt small developers much more than large ones.
then why are the big corpos launching psyops and frantically spreading propaganda against SKG? it's almost like they're shitting their pants and spewing lie after lie
small time devs wouldn't launch live service anything since maintenance costs are much higher and add up quickly

>>714834406
>Hurt small developers more
>A group that is already more incentivized to not host anything due to cost and tends to rely on P2P instead
I don't see this being the case.
Small developers are more likely to have an easier time complying with the initiative

>>714825275
they just open sourced TF2
suck a dick faggot

>>714835776
It's specifically NoE. Not that it matters, that's only because it's an EU based lobby. I would assume they do whatever NCL says.bUnlike Sony where all the little companies under them are their own little fiefdom (Aniplex for example fucking hates SIE and will happily fuck them over)

>>714837772
>>714837772
That's the whole point. Every single time a pro-consumer initiative tries to go through, megacorps and their lobbies always try to convince people on how it would hurt Small Businesses. Here they talk about how it harms marginalized lgbt and disabled indies. Effectively turning this into another gamergate situation.

>Games are licensed to me
>Pirate a game
>Never sign a license
>No crime committed

>>714838175
Genius.

>>714830754
Valve unfortunately does both.

>>714817457 (OP)
>all three make shit games for shit devices
It's not over, it's dead in the water.

>>714817457 (OP)
>SKG
South Korean Games?
South Korean Gays?
Sweaty Koala Gams?
Sorry I don't keep up with all the shit this board screech on and on about

>>714840558
Start Killing Goys.

>>714830754
counter strike total convertions

>>714832658

>>714837876
>I would assume
and that's where you would be wrong because it wouldn't even be the first time both NoE and NoA went rouge

>>714837538
>Valve doesn't
You surely?

>>714817457 (OP)
Well no shit. Obviously they don't want to be beholden to anything.
Lobbying isn't a magic word, though, you don't get to just show up with big number and win. At least not in Europe.

>>714817457 (OP)
wtf does netfkix have to do with this shit? huh???? QUESTION MARK?

>>714844542
>Netflix opened a mobile game studio in Helsinki, Finland in September 2022

>>714817457 (OP)
>typical blind snoygger nigger retard
kill yourself immediately

>>714844727
fucking finngolians

>>714820000
you already fucking know its some flimsy reason by an umbrella group and these companies happen to be already associated years ago.

>>714842742
AHahahha, righty confirmed for tiktok baby tard.

>>714817457 (OP)
>Snoys in charge of not being blind

>>714842742
I'm gonna post this /pol/ meme in response regardless if it makes sense or not!
That will teach them not to make fun of Nintendo!

You are a gay nigger retard

Isn't it suspicious how SKG threads keep getting deleted while actual disgusting shit like this is allowed to stay up? >>714839263

>>714847712
Rance is /v/ culture and older than you, election tourist.

>>714847845
Pedo rapists hate consumer rights, got it

>>714817457 (OP)
thor is right and you are an idiot if you disagree with him on this (and the wow thing)

>>714842742
>i can't read