Is Kingdom Heart's story really a complicated mess? If so when did it become like that or has it always been like this?
For example I think everything was fine up until Birth by Sleep

>>715000869 (OP)
Is Kingdom Heart's story really a complicated mess?
Yes
If so when did it become like that or has it always been like this?
Honestly I feel everything went to shit with DDD, but it was probably before that.

>>715000869 (OP)
It's just full of asspulls and retroactive writing. Even as far as CoM things were getting weird.

People like to pretend that it wasn't always like this but look at the final mix of KH1, it has foreshadowing for Roxas, nobodies, and organization 13.
Not to mention you needed to play a GBA game to know what happened between KH1 and 2.
The series thrives despite these things.

>>715000869 (OP)
>Is Kingdom Heart's story really a complicated mess?
Yes
>If so when did it become like that or has it always been like this?
After KH1

BBS is when Nomura actively started shitting all over the lore and made things so complicated it became impossible to keep up.

How would (You) fix the story?

>>715000869 (OP)
It's only complicated if you're retarded and can't put 2 and 2 together.
Now, is it convoluted? Yes. For sure. But it's not confusing or complicated.

>>715001608
>convolutes the meanings of confusing and complicated

>>715000869 (OP)
It's because retarded bugmen thought it would be a good idea to put half of the games on different handheld consoles. GBA, PSP, DS, 3DS and Mobile. That's the reason why.

>>715001527
It can't be fixed.
But I'd bring on Oswald the Lucky Rabbit as a Keyblade Master who uses his own ear as his Keyblade.

>>715000869 (OP)
Yes, it is convoluted. I'd argue anything starting with KH2, shit really went off the rail, because Nomura is obsessed with introducing these insane twists that have to get explained down the line, usually leading to more questions than answers.
Some people (or, ahem, RETARDS as I like to call them) will try to tell you that KH was always a shitshow, but the first two games are very easy to follow as long as you pay a little attention. Their stories are pretty simple, even by JRPG standards.

No just replace the terms in the game like heartless or hearts with jungian psychology like id ego and superego and the narrative simply becomes a trite metaphor for self actualization

>>715000869 (OP)
DDD really dropped the ball
>I'm already half Xehanort
And just when you think it can't get worse, they drop time travel on you

>>715000869 (OP)
3D is where it starts getting incomprehensible. It's easy enough to follow before that.

>>715000869 (OP)
It is complicated because it is so retarded you can't really use common sense to understand it.

BBS was one of the more concise games in this series, and even answers questions that people used to have about 2. Like...
>How did Riku know he was the chosen one?
>How could Kairi possibly have a Keyblade?
>Why does Sora's Nobody look like a completely different guy?
>Who were the "Keyblade Heroes" that Xigbar just casually mentioned in the final level?

>>715000869 (OP)
Kingdom Hearts' story is pretty straigthforward(ish) for the only games that matter (1, Chain of Memories, 2).

Not really. It just seems overwhelming because each new game jumps back and forth between the present and the past, and to top it off even the shitty mobile games have important lore.

>>715000869 (OP)
The only thing that made it confusing is that the spinoffs were canonical and not everyone owned all consoles to experience the story back then. It's not an issue nowadays because it's all compiled in a collection or mix now.


It's a really neat idea for Nomura to do it though because it made you take the game seriously, that's one aspect I liked about it.

>>715000869 (OP)
Not really. Just play the games in order and the story really isn't that hard to understand

>>715000869 (OP)
Yes it’s a mess, so many recons and how Sora isn’t the only keyblade wearer.

>>715001527
Burn it all down, start from scratch, and keep Nomura distracted with a 500 yen note on a string.

>>715002409
>the keyblade chooses its master
>actually no it doesn't, a previous master has to decide who to pass it on to so you inherit it like a nepobaby...or the previous master has to live rent free inside your heart so its not actually you wielding it its them :)
bravo nomura

>>715002727
You can’t play the exclusive KH online game that was shut down and the new version that tells a different story in KH online is still exclusive to Japan.

>>715002409
Maybe I am stupid, or misremembering crucial plot points, but why weren't Terra, Aqua and Ventus ever brought up by Sora, Riku and Kairi? If I was a kid, I feel like I would have remembered meeting someone with a massive ass keyblade.
It just feels so fucking forced and tacked on. Was this ever addressed?

>>715003353
Here, the entire story up to KH3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilPPtE8T7Z8

>>715001527
Remove Organization XIII completely, and keep up the surrealism by never introducing convoluted explanations and histories regarding things that are wholly unnecessary.

By that I mean:
>only one keyblade
>it chooses Sora because of his heart
>no "keyblade war"
>no Organization XIII
>no mark of mastery

I did like Roxas a lot, but only because his entire narrative in KH2 was mostly unexplained. When you start explaining surrealism, it stops being surreal and becomes stupid.

>>715000869 (OP)
>Birth by Sleep
No shit.
If there's any example of how NOT to world-build, that's it.

>>715002409
>Why does Sora's Nobody look like a completely different guy?
After 2 and before BBS, was anyone really asking this? We hadn't met the complete versions of Organization 13 and the only other Nobody that looks different from the person they're based on is Namine. You could have easily assumed that they just looked different as Nobodies. I guess Xemnas looks similar to Terranort, but Ansem looks a bit different.

>>715000869 (OP)
I like the OG Organisation XIII

it's convoluted but also retarded and only held up by occasional cool setpieces

>>715003908
I like how Xaldin and Lexaeus are supposed to be the strongest after Xemnas but they're completely irrelevant characters

>>715003353
Terra tells Riku to keep the Keyblade a secret.
Kairi lost her memories of Radiant Garden
Sora just forgot.

>>715001527
Delete rewrite most things after BBS

>>715001527
it's near impossible since almost everything after 2 was a complete abomination story-wise. Days could have been ok but xion nonsense, bbs completely ripped up the lore and setting, 3D took it further and added completely unnecessary shit like time travel, and then there's everything about the phone games.

All that needed to be done after 2 was a bridge game that setup full formed Xehanort and further developed/empowered Kairi like CoM did for Riku leading into the final showdown in 3. Instead we got a bunch of dumb bullshit that's more interested in setting up more dumb bullshit than having a satisfying or coherent conclusion

>>715001527
Its too late, reboot the fucking thing, at this point youre asking how to tidy up the garden when it has turned into a complete jungle of lore and convoluted plots and weeds of endless asspulls

>>715004061
To be fair Xaldin kicks my shit in every playthrough

>>715000869 (OP)
Kingdom Hearts was never really THAT complicated, it was just a lot to stuff to remember but it pretty much all made sense if you could recall all the details.

Except up to DDD, DDD is where I would say it really upped the nonsense ante with working in time travel (with its own set of convoluted rules unique to KH) AND Inception-style multiple layers of dream diving in one game. I do not believe anyone who say they completely understand Dream Drop Distance's story beats.

>>715004281
I still haven't beaten his data battle...

>>715004119
>Terra tells Riku to keep the Keyblade a secret.
Yea, if I was a 6 year old boy, I would for sure be able to do that. Especially Riku of all people is all about doing what he's told.
>Sora just forgot.
Okay, that's fair. He's probably legally retarded, so I'm not questioning that one.

>>715000869 (OP)
It's a mess. KH2 did it, specifically the epilogue.
Final Mix made it worse with that cutscene of Aqua's armor and that game's epilogue.
A need to have every OC's backstory set up really ruined it.

>>715004434
I still don't understand how the fuck Riku was a dream eater

How do the replicas work? Like, what is stopping the Organization from just making more of them?

>>715000869 (OP)
It's a convoluted mess ever since chain of memories really since it introduced that people falling to darkness (well only if they're strong) produce a nobody. Before then people fell to darkness but maybe strong people could hold their conscience longer (Ansem, Riku, to a lesser extent Sora and Clayton) and even come to command it (maleficent and ansem*)
*ansem as known in only the context of KH1

>>715000869 (OP)
I still don’t know what Kingdom Hearts is.
>It’s light
OK

>>715005735
Vexen was the only one who knew how to make the with Xion as the prototype.
That means in the month or so between her and Repliku he was able to make 1 new Replica and then got killed.
Then after KH2 when he was recompleted he played double against and made the ones the KH3 ord time travelers use. alongside the one for Roxas in the few months between Kh2 and 3

Now in hindsight the series would probably have been better as an anthology series much like FF. A new protagonist and crew at every entry leaving on a dreamlike journey with some engine enhancements to make the next game like KHII(FM from the first go) hopefully. But the problem is that you pretty much have to use Donald & Goofy again because no other Disney pair have such allure. Especially donald if you're thinking of the European market.

>>715001527
I don't have a full plot in mind but a few things
1. Let deaths be permanent
Especially in 3 Nomura has a really bad habit of resurrecting characters that simply don't need to be. Beyond the entirety of Organization XIII, Ansem the Wise/Xion/Repliku all had good deaths let them have it.
2. Nobodies cannot just 'grow' hearts
I always thought this was stupid and robbed Nobodies of the unique tragedy to their existence. Roxas/Namine had great ends just reuniting with their original selves whom they now live on through, just keep it that way
3. Do not rehash the Organization XIII
I am fine with Xehanort coming back on the grounds he is a brilliant bastard and probably had some contingency in place should both his Nobody and Heartless die, but he should be the exception not the rule and whatever plan he comes up with to get Kingdom Hearts shouldn't involve just rehashing the Organization.
4. No time travel
Just don't touch it. This ruins plots, Timeless River was fine/cute but let's just leave it at that

>>715005735
>>715006607
As for the replicas they are basically empty shells one can put hearts into.
Xion as the prototype needed to drain others to gain a sense of self, but Repliku was a completely artificial heart based on Riku placed in a replica body which then took Riku's form..
The KH3 ones are also just blank bodies with hearts placed in them.

>>715001527
Just have characters stay dead. Give the FF and Disney characters more involvement in the actual story, instead of just repeating the movies' plotlines and then ditching them. Especially FF characters.
Like, where the fuck were these seemingly important friends in KH3?

>>715003908
They're kinda cool but after 2 they really should've been done and buried Not this xemnas who's actually xehanort who actually wanted to steal terra's body and turned into the xemnas we knew but also all along knew a master plan of thus far figure. but also the sharpshooter is also a mastermind and so it goes
I didn't post this "KH2 ruined everything" image yet because it started in CoM. But Eenough! Let the dead be dead.

>>715001283
Ansem in KH1 was an ass pull

KH needs a hardish reboot, and to involve newer/acquired Disney IPs.

Sora needs a proper love interest, I think him and Miles Morales should kiss in KH4.

>>715012532
>involve newer/acquired Disney IPs.
That's the thing, nothing will ever hit that spot of kids who were experiencing square stuff alongside 90's Disney renaissance. Neither just are that relevant anymore.

>>715000869 (OP)
I just came into this thread to say gummi ship missions in Kingdom Hearts 1 can suck my fucking cock.

>>715014378
That's why you have Sora make out with black Spiderman. It'll be huge among weebs.

>>715014484
i enjoyed them, though i'm grateful for the warp feature later on

>>715012532
I think it just needs a change in the approach to world design. More open areas, more time spent in certain zones and perhaps to offset that you can have less overall worlds. Would help the pacing and give more opportunities to engage with the gameplay
Big Hero 6 and Pirates in KH3 unironically had the right idea

>>715000869 (OP)
most people used to argue that oathkeeper and oblivion should be sora's exclusive keyblades instead of roxas as they represent kairi and riku respectively but here is what people seems to miss out:
Roxas was always the one who was in between light and dark, well not him technically but who he takes his form from, ventus. since X, ventus was influenced by both light and darkness until xenahort was capable to split them and as result rest in sora's heart until he was merged with vanitas and got split again and seek refuge in sora's body once more, he was always entangled in this inside fight with light and darkness which was influenced in sora (having anti-form) and roxas (dual-wielding). roxas projected both ventus and sora's close friends by placeholding them with axel and xion but also him sharing 2 identities gave him the ability to dual wield and what better keyblade to describe light and darkness than with oathkeeper and oblivion, the promise to see his friends again and his will to enter into the unknown to keep his promise

>>715000869 (OP)
kh1 was just a heroes journey

CoM is were things got weird
kh2 is were it went completely off rails

>>715014592
Whatever floats you youngsters' boats I more or less decked out in the period between 2 and 3. But I somehow doubt that would be a success.

>>715001527
BBS is the bittersweet story of 2 keyblade wielders led by a keyblade master to try and kill the darkness but permanently die in battle just to give context of how it began and how ansem was born
Org13 cannot be brought back to life but being memorized is a meaningful way to make them feel human
xehanort time travel comes to an end in 3
kingdom hearts is not LIGHT but a sort of paradise where keyblade wielders come to rest once their task is over and where sora ends up resting by bringing back everyone and reset the timeline like he did in 3

it was never confusing, what makes a simple story like Kingdom Hearts "convoluted" was it's shit localization. What you retards don't realize is that it comes off as more direct and machine-like at points, leading to less specific information. Also, I doubt half the people complaining even read the reports

>>715006803
I disagree with point 2. The issue is that nobodies having hearts is presented in the latter half of the series as an asspull, when using the logic of the first titles it should be self-evident that anyone who grows as a person and learns to care about other people has a heart.

I think it's very basic in retrospect, but anyone saying it didn't "jump the shark" right after the first is a kh2 dick sucker.

>>715000869 (OP)
Generally the core issue is yen sid. The character has the position of a wise sage with great wisdom and experience and the ultimate arbiter of "light". But nearly everything he says is a fucking lie, every time he directs the heroes to do something it is completely pointless, and no one ever questions him or his complete lack of results. Even if they tried to salvage the character by making him evil or something it would still be an asspull because none of it is foreshadowed. Every game presents him as a genuine wise sage giving sage advice, only for him to show up again half a game later and give equally sage advice which directly contradicts the previous advice he said.

>>715000869 (OP)
Yeah it is a total mess.
BBS was the jump the shark moment imo too.

Being complicated has never been the issue for KH. Lots of games have complicated plots, lots of JRPGs have complicated plots, the thing is, people actually care about that plots and what happens in them. They care about the characters, they care about the events and how it effects them.

Outside of Sora and his main friends, do you actually give a shit about KH's plot? Do you actually care about MoM's evil vague plan or do you just think you do because they're cramming it down our throats? Do you actually care about the Union X and Dark Road characters or do you want to see how they relate back Sora? Even the Disney worlds there's nothing to really be attached to, because they aren't allowed to be anything more stand ins for their actual characters or be in any actual danger when they aren't following the plot of the actual movies to a T.

>>715018268
I like MoM as a character but the foretells mean nothing and Dark Road had the potential to be an interesting story where we follow a "new" cast of characters grow and develop by learning from Disney worlds before being tragically killed, but was cut short.

>>715000869 (OP)
Nowadays? No
There's only two ways to think the story is complicated
>You played the games as they released and a lot of stuff was still unexplained at the time, specially involving the secret endings
>You're a retard who wasn't aware of the "spinoff" games being canon and only played 1, 2 and 3

For people like me that
>Loved KH1
>Loved CoM
>Loved KH2
>Tolerated BBS
>Tolerated Days
>Dropped DDD
>Hated KH3
And would prefer a decisive reboot of the series, is there any point for getting excited or having any hopes at all in KH4?

It's not complicated, it is inconsistent. I say that as someone who loves the series.
Elder Scrolls is complicated, Kingdom Hearts just makes stuff up on the fly.

>>715001485
Name a single part of BBS that is complicated.
KH only became complicated with DDD

>>715018532
That's the thing. Most of the plot KH is "potential". There's a potenitally an interesting plot and interesting characters in there, but it never really amounts to anything. Coversations that are exposition never lead to anything more than just more exposition. Part of the charm of the first three games (KH1, CoM, and KH2) was the balance of its lore bullshit, and having actual character moments together, even Days understood this and at least tried.

KH is enamored with its own lore, it comes at the cost of everything else.

>>715018896
I just want Sora happy and on his island and sticking his dick in Kairi daily like he deserved at the end of III
That is the only thing I am interested in and if IV doesn't correct this then I am done

>>715003114
The Keyblade still chooses it's master, hence Riku losing it at the beginning of one despite Terra's interference.

>>715018896
Your best bet is to wind back time and pretend that the bottle in the ending of 2 was a thank you letter

>>715019029
That a fair assesment, but Dark Road in particular is lost potential thanks to being tacked on to the end of a already ended mobile game and because of that was forced to wrap it up right when the plot was kicking in.
DR's isn't a case of bad writing like many of the other instances in the series, its a case of being cut short.

>>715012532
>Sora needs a proper love interest
It’s Riku and always WILL be Riku.

Nomura’s the biggest fujo game developer in the industry don’t forget.

>>715000869 (OP)
The story is very messy. Nomura clearly had no idea where he wanted to go with it after KH1.

>>715019397
They really should do a "X.3" where they remake Unchained X, Dark Road, and Missing Link as actual games in the KH3 engine.

>>715019964
What they should actually do is anything that will get people to appreciate and comprehend the story again

>>715020223
So exactly what I said then, because it is all relevant and hidden behind games you can't even play anymore.
KH lore isn't even that complicated if you pay attention, some of the most "complicated parts" like time travel are made clearer in said mobile games, so people not having access to them is a large part of the confusion around this series at least for the past decade or so.

>>715020320
There's really nothing they can do to make it interesting to anyone who hasn't been completely following it thus far.

>>715000869 (OP)
>If so when did it become like that or has it always been like this?
I think it was right around here.

>>715020468
They could try giving access to key games for the lore would be pretty substantial for that, which is why they should remake the mobile games as actual games.

>>715000869 (OP)
If x/Ux never happened, then the answer would be no as it's pretty straightforward, provided you played all the games up until that point. x/Ux is where the lore became truly, irreversibly fucked beyond repair

>>715004157

I remember disliking 2 actually. 1 seemed to be a fun romp with disney and ff chars that didn't seem to take itself too seriously, then I played 2 and all the darkness shit made me check out and stop playing even though the gameplay was more fun

>>715020320
It would help the story for those games you mentioned, but not for people who couldn’t properly digest the story in BBS, DDD, or Days for example. KH needs something that ties everything to feel understandable

Thought KH2 was really fucking fun when I played through it some 7-8 years ago, but playing it again made me realize that pretty much everything outside the combat, mostly the bosses, was a fucking chore. There's just nothing going on there.
The worlds are really boring and you just run from point A to point B, watch the autismo fanfiction play out, repeat. It's ass.
Playing on critical does make the fighting really fun though, I'll admit that, but that replay really soured my opinion on it.

>>715021004
As I said already the mobile games help flesh out concepts that are most commonly cited to be among the complicated parts of the series.
And honestly if you can't properly digest BBS or Days then you just skipped the cutscenes, everything is spelled out in those games pretty succinctly.

>>715021517
Alright anon I’ll take your word for it

>>715020793
I don't even think 2's gameplay was more fun, certainly not before FM. After originally playing 2 I still spent quita a lot of time replaying 1.

>>715021312
i completely agree.

kh1 is ass all the way other than a few comfy and nostalgic areas.

3 sorta got redeemed with the dlc/critical mode if you skip every cutscene.

I've only played 1, 2, and 3 but from what I understand some of the portable games are included in the PC versions. How many of those are actually worth playing?

>>715022476
I like KH1 the most though. The worlds felt more compact and had at least some verticality to them.
The combat is obviously a lot simpler, but it's still enjoyable for what it is and the vibes are just cozier.

>>715001527
Make Sora and Kari kiss.

I also ship Roxas and Xion.

>>715022698
But anon, then that would involve Sora eventually seeing a vagina.

>>715000869 (OP)
It's too overly complicated for a game that has Disney characters in it.

>>715022586
CoM has some charm in the GBA version and maybe in the collection if you play it in japanese and Asuka's seiyuu as Larxene makes you pitch a tent

>>715022790
Hey in my save file canon he at least sneaked a peek at Seplhie's panties

>>715001527
Have it not take itself so seriously.

>>715022790

>>715023027
This has to be one of the most universal KH childhood experiences, right?
It's either that, or turning gay. Or both somehow.

You had a crush on her, didn't you?

>>715002701
delusional

>>715019537
You mean Kojima https://youtu.be/r39_xQNpYh4

>>715001527
It really comes down to SE making boring-ass cutscenes. idk what happened after KH1, but everything has to be a 5 minute still shot where Mickey Mouse rants about darkness and light. This is not the only series of theirs where I find myself wanting to skip 80% of the """story""". Look to R* and ND for the minimum quality bar of a cinematic. If you can't meet that, look to how Deus Ex introduces lore in a litany of differing forms. For a company that made its fortune off RPGs, they're not great storytellers.

>>715004851
I think Riku was dream diving into Sora's dreams of diving into the sleeping worlds? Thus making him oestensibly a dream eater?

>Is Kingdom Heart's story really a complicated mess?
yes, and it's not a fun or interesting one like some other complicated mess stories (e.g. kiseki, xeno meta series)

>If so when did it become like that or has it always been like this?
It was a gradual build up over time but it started with kingdom hearts 2 and reached peak retardation with dream drop distance

>For example I think everything was fine up until Birth by Sleep
BBS was a big turning point but 2 can't be ignored in the conversation

>>715001527
Better integrate the disney cast into the main story. KH1 was fine because ansem kidnapping princesses to open kingdom hearts was his goal but since then plot basically focuses on the cast of knockoff FF characters with the disney worlds becoming only tangentially related to what's happening with seasnort. KH was supposed to be a fucking crossover game but Yidsney wouldn't allow any representation of their franchises that wasn't a near 1:1 recreation and so much potential was lost from that.

>>715028332
You gotta look at who the Scenario (screenplay) writers for each game are
>KH1
Scenario Supervisor: Keiko Nobumoto
Scenario Writers: Jun Akiyama, Daisuke Watanabe, Kazushige Nojima
>CoM
Scenario Writer: Daisuke Watanabe
>KH2
Scenario: Kazushige Nojima
>Days
Scenario: Yukari Ishida, Tomoko Kanemaki
>BBS
Scenario Masaru Oka
>DDD
Scenario Masaru Oka
>KH3
Scenario Masaru Oka

Oka was been responsible for the primary writing of the game's scrips themselves since BBS while Nomura handles the higher concept plot and concept stuff, while KH1 had an entire team writing the actual script.

>>715001023
>Honestly I feel everything went to shit with DDD, but it was probably before that.
you are correct. i would say 358/2 arguably does some shit to overcomplicate things with the introduction and explanation of xion, but DDD is where it really went full retard. the time travel shit i cannot abide, especially because it does not make ANY damn sense. before then, it was star wars EU or GoT level complicated: lots of moving parts and shifting focus with new installments seemingly upending what you previously knew, but not so much so that it was impossible to understand. it is almost like a conspiracy thriller but with some magic/final fantasy shit going on. as long as you can suspend your disbelief for shit like a heart not being a literal organ in your chest but something more akin to a soul, then you should be able to understand it. until DDD and time travel, that is.

>>715000869 (OP)
>Is Kingdom Heart's story really a complicated mess?
Absolutely not. At least not at first. Everything up until Union Cross infests the plot (starting with KH3) is very clear cut. You just need to play the games in release order and stop mashing through dialogue/cutscenes. No extra material needed.

>>715031138
>Oka was been responsible for the primary writing of the game's scrips themselves since BBS
nope

Nomura: When it comes to the scenario, including the script, in the end I write everything myself. That's not just for Toy Box. I haven't made this public before, but after KH2 generally everything was written by me, especially KH 358/2 Days.

--I see. I had thought that you assemble the plot, and then the script and other small details were assigned to someone else.

Nomura: That is how it was in the beginning. However, ever since KH2, roughly speaking I will create the outline of the scenario myself, and then (Masaru) Oka will take that and create a springboard scenario, including dialogue, that takes into consideration requests from the level design team. Then after that, I write the final manuscript myself. That's the general flow. Other staff have worked on the scenario in the past, but the KH series lore is complicated, and when lots of people are involved it gets hard to keep everyone updated on it all. In the end, I'm the one with the best grasp on it, so that's why we ended up with the style we have today.

--But, you haven't been credited with "Scenario" in the end credits in any of the titles so far.

Nomura: I get credited with "Story," so I guess it doesn't need to be said. Plus, I've been in the industry for a long time. I worried that if people were to go into things with the preconceived notion that "Tetsuya Nomura wrote this," it get in the way of their play, so I didn't make it clear. But the series is 17 years old now, and the fact that "an old dude is writing it" is simply the truth (dry laugh). I wrote this game myself too. I wrote all the text: not just the scenario, I even decide the item names myself.

>>715025912
yeah

>>715031232
That's good to know so the process goes
Fist draft (Nomura) ->Shitwork or rewriting things to take gameplay into account (Scenario) -> Final Draft (Nomura).
Then the question becomes, how was Days writing a step above the rest of the games once Nomua had no more oversight.

>>715031138
Every single one of Masaru Oka’s scripts are the games that shitted up the series for me.

>>715031652
Some chick who really wanted to fuck Roxas and used Nomura's script to do it took over.

>>715001527
Can't be done, it is like the story told by the Ghost from Christmas Future.
>A thousand of years ago the war of the keyblades was forseen by the seers
>And all of this happened, in the future.

>If so when did it become like that or has it always been like this?
Having a character that was essentially a computer simulation with Amnesia was pretty fucking stupid. The series is lives on frequent EPIC TWEESTS and SHOCKING revelations concluding with the next MYSTERY BOX

>>715033236
Bless her then, because it worked.

>>715001023
>>715001283
CoM introduced Nobodies and laid all of the groundwork for BBS including Ventus making his first appearance when Braig recognized Roxas.

>>715001485
>BBS
Shut your whore mouth. It's easily the simplest game, focuses on a compelling drama with two characters who convey emotions in really short monologues, and it's the most standalone part of the franchise. That being said if you don't play BBS, then the entire rest of the franchise is made incomprehensible by its inclusions. I'll never forget when KH3 came out and and a friend asked me, "Who the fuck is the red power ranger?" and it took me like an hour to explain.

>>715001527
>How would (You) fix the story?
Everything after BBS has to be deleted. All attempts to tie the minutia of the stories together should be scrapped. Braig's entire character arc deleted.

CoM rewritten without Mickey. Riku and Axel work together. This eventually leads to a dramatic return where Sora sees Riku's made new friends, the same way Riku got hit with Sora having new friends in KH1.

Cut Org13 down to Org7: Axel, Larxene, Xigbar, Xaldin, Sai'x, Roxas, Luxord. +Xion

Namine and Kairi need more screen time. Maybe get a writer who isn't afraid of women?

Aqua should have a badass death that alters the plot or else a proper villain arc, but none of this shit where she's monologuing in a room full of main characters. Her strength as a character was always her drama with Terra and her soliloqui.

>>715012532
>KH needs a hardish reboot, and to involve newer/acquired Disney IPs.
No and no.
KH needs a definitive end maybe told through a new character and modern Disney would had never in a million years allowed something like KH, they were completely unprofessional with SE over the crossover with Nintendo.
Modern Disney stuff is just garbage.
Bad unmemorable songs and calarts designs.

DDD fucked it all, what a shit game.

>>715003613
>Okay I believe you.

KH4
>Replaced the villain from KH1-3 with comic relief Marvel quipping mobile gacha character who appeared in 2 cutscenes in the actual games for 6 minutes and 36 seconds
>Organization XIII is replaced with mobile gacha characters who have cardboard one dimensional personalities and appeared in 1 cutscene for 2 minutes and 55 seconds in the actual games
>In order to understand backstory you need to play mobile gacha (WHICH IS OFFLINE NOW)
>Another mobile gacha that was supposed to contain crucial backstory got cancelled
>QTEs
>Strong woman representation
>Unreal Engine 5
>Nomura is retiring and giving away the franchise to literally who
IT'S OVER

>>715000869 (OP)
It's convoluted, has various retcons, and requires you to jump around various consoles and games to get an understanding of the whole picture but it's mostly straightforward once you get down to brass tacks. I would argue it's just that there's a lot of terms and it gets very silly with how off the rails it gets that it causes people to tune out or find it hard to keep up with things that keep getting introduced.

Look at how many people tapped out of following Chi or KHUX before KH3 came out and most of them missed a bunch of important things being set up in both KH3 and Re:Mind then acted like it was confusing when they got closer to the end. For people who weren't following KHUX the entire secret ending was functionally pointless for them and then most of the added Re:Mind content also was. Like, this guy is the major antagonist of the current arc and if you didn't play KHUX you have absolutely zero clue who he even is because the standalone KHUX movie does not set up MoM as a villain in any way, shape, or form, and explains nothing about the KHUX story that actually matters barring MoM making Chirithies.