Explain how DOOM is 3D when there's not 3D models on it and the game is all pixel art sprites.

>>715009715 (OP)
Its not

>>715009715 (OP)
It is

The space the game represents is three dimensional.

>>715009715 (OP)
The burden of proof is on you bro :^)

>no slanted doors or ceilings
>no rooms above room
It's not 3D. You could make the argument for 2.5D, but it's 2D.

I'm gonna tell you something about "3D" models anon
they're actually 2D

>>715009715 (OP)
If the game use X and Y coordinates to represent position, it's a 2D game.
If games use X, Y and Z coordinates to represent position, it's a 3D game.
Doom use X,Y and Z, hence it is a 3D game.
The height is not accounted for on weapons specifically because you can't tilt the camera on raycaster engines (very well), but the game is programmed specifically to not count height when calculating weapons.
Things like gravity, floor collision and all that still use X,Y,Z

>>715009768
>>715010895
>>715010995
It literally is 3d zoomers, you are thinking of wolfenstein. Doom is rendered with traditional 3D triangle (software) rasterization and the vertices all have 3 dimensional locations in space

>>715011115
How the fuck is it 3d if my monitor screen is 2 axes you fucking moron?

>>715011115
>Doom is rendered with traditional 3D triangle (software) rasterization
Nope, it's a raycaster just like wolf3D
shoot ray, ray hits wall, hit distance determines the height of the line that will be drawn.
Floor and ceiling are "mode 7 planes".

But it's a 3D game because objects have X/Y/Z coordinates.

>>715011115
>3d triangle

>>715009715 (OP)
Objects exist within a 3D space.

>>715009715 (OP)
I got news for you
>all dimensions higher than 1 can be folded into 1 dimension without losing anything

>>715009715 (OP)
No game on a regular PC display is truly 3d.
Its just a illusion of 3d.
True 3d is only possible in VR games.

>>715009715 (OP)
how can a game be 3d if it's all on a screen

>>715009715 (OP)
Its more 2.5d, a lot of tricks are done in the game because of stuff like infinite height

>>715010895
The spaces are still three dimensional even if there are limitations. A cube doesn't become a square just because it doesn't contain a diagonal slope inside it.

>>715009715 (OP)
The gradient lighting system aids in the appearance of sprites moving through 3D space.

>>715011741
They do move through 3D space.

>>715011587
The infinite height is only for weapons.
Basically all your shots have infinite height effectively, but monsters have distinctive X/Y/Z coordinates that affect em in all the other ways, such as gravity, moving platforms, general movement and all that.

>>715009715 (OP)
It has a Z axis.

no polygons therefore not 3d
it's that simple
>b-but
not 3d

>>715009715 (OP)
the walls are 3d

>>715011904
>voxels are not 3d
Ok.

Doom does NOT have z-axis you retards. It simulates z-values. If two things appear "above" each other visually, they're still at the same spot on the 2D plane.

>>715011982
read
>>715011904

>>715009715 (OP)
>Explain how DOOM is 3D

Explain why that matters

>The height is not accounted for on weapons specifically because you can't tilt the camera on raycaster engines (very well), but the game is programmed specifically to not count height when calculating weapons.
Factually incorrect. Height is fully taken into account for attack hit detection. The only thing height is ignored for is solid actor collision.

Because gameplay is based around 3 dimensions of perception that include needing an understanding of height, width, and, depth to comprehend.

People saying it isn't 3D just because of how it renders the graphics are giga-retarded on the level of flat earthers.

>>715012139
Weird, i was pretty sure it was for shots specifically.

>>715012230
read
>>715011904

>>715009715 (OP)
How is any game 3d if those lil niggers on screen aren't jumping out into my living room? All this shit is 2d, even VR games.

>>715011115
DOOM is as 3D as photoshop and Krita with their perspective tool.

It's just a skew operation on a sprite, retard.

Krita can do the same.

>>715012139
Samefag addendum-
Also explosion detection.

>>715012282
you're a terrible troll, just so you know. 0/10 bait.

This is a 3D game.
Characters can move in all three axis, characters can collide in all three axis, and you're required to platform in 3 axis to even complete the game.

>>715012406
no argument. cute
read
>>715011904

>>715012238
Even vertical autoaim for hitscan weapons has limits, if an enemy is so high/low you can't see them, your shot will still travel straight forward past them. Enemy melee doesn't respect height, but player melee does.

>>715009715 (OP)
Projectiles can go over your head.
Entities cannot go through a space if the ceiling is too low.

>>715009715 (OP)
me walk around and up down stairs. it 3D

>>715012474
Nice to know.
So by "solid actor collision" you mean like the player character colliding with an wall?

>>715012483
>>715012585
read
>>715011904

>>715012013
Timecube shit.

>>715009715 (OP)
it's 3D because my brain tells me it is

>>715011857
It's not for weapons, it's only for collision between non-projectile things.

>>715010895
> no rooms above room
By that logic, a bungalow is 2d

>>715012923
Yep, i learned it from the last anon, but still good to know.

>>715012648
With other objects specifically. For the sake of collision, enemies and other solid objects like barrels have infinite height.

>>715012648
Actors colliding with other actors. Players, monsters, solid decorations. For example, you and the imps at the beginning of E3M1 can't walk through the trees, but they actually have extremely short hitboxes so projectiles can travel through them.

You made this exact same dogshit thread a few months ago. Why is everyone giving sincere replies instead of telling him to fuck off?

>>715013171
>>715013148
Nice to know

>>715013171
There are no solid decorations in the original. Only in GZDoom.

>>715013254
there absolutelly are solid decorations in vanilla doom

>>715009715 (OP)
>>715011115
>>715011362
DOOM isn't 3D it's a 2D game with some tricks.

Everything just has a vertical offset and a pre-programmed height, it's not a true Z axis.

DOOM's rendering doesn't allow for things like multiple floors or bridges with an underpass. Any DOOM wad with these things is using modern tricks and other things that id Software didn't have in the 90s.

Doom uses 2D maps and uses a raycasting engine to display them in faux 3D. It's basically a top-down shooter displayed in a different perspective (the map screen shows how the game looks internally).
Maps are cut up to sectors, each sector can have different textures, height, floor textures, and lightning values. Objects (monsters etc) can have a Z height but this is only used for drawing them, you can't have monsters under/over other monsters. Since the maps are essentially 2D, you can't have two sectors intersecting either.

Later raycasting doom clones like Duke 3D got around the problem by teleporting you to another map sector when a room-under-room happened. For ex. on the first stage at the start, the rooftop is somewhere else on the map, and when you fall down the duct, you get teleported mid-fall to another sector.

Even later games like Blood and Redneck Rampage got even crazier, I don't know what those did to get picrel effect.


>>715011362
Is this a port? I remember being able to shoot rockets and have it explode under monsters and still kill them. It's how the Doom 2 final boss worked. If you had a cacodemon flying really far up high, you could not run under it despite there being room. And you could chainsaw it to death despite it flying 40 feet above you.

You can also trigger switches when you are off height. First level in Doom 2, in the room where the platform with the switches goes down into the ground, you can still press it despite it being underground.

>>715011094
> The height is not accounted for on weapons
Height is absolutely accounted for in weapon fire, this is common misconception because doom has vertical auto-aim.

it was called 2.5d
back in the day

>>715009715 (OP)
>Explain how DOOM is 3D
You have to have depth perception to perceive 3D. Some extreme cases of autism causes a lack of depth perception.

>>715013321
Just barrels, but those are solid because they take damage. Nothing else blocks shots.

>>715013368
>Is this a port?
It's Chocolate Doom, which is the most accurate source port to the original.
>I remember being able to shoot rockets and have it explode under monsters and still kill them.
The splash damage has infinite height, but if the rockets don't hit anything they won't explode.

>>715013539
there are plenty of decorative objects that block players and monsters. "shootable" is not how I would define a solid object but I guess that's just semantics at this point.

>>715013687
>there are plenty of decorative objects that block players and monsters
Yeah, but not weapons.

>>715013740
take your time to read the entire post before replying

>>715012653
me
walk
up
down
ahead
it
3D

>>715013803
The short hitbox has nothing to do with projectiles passing through them.

>>715013901
oh fair enough, I'm not that guy though

>>715009715 (OP)
>walk forward
1D
>walk to the side
2D
>walk up stairs/fall down a pit
3D
glad we could clear this up

... brahs what IS IT like to have TWO EYES?!
I needs to know!

>>715013368
>the devs came up with creative ways of making a 3d game despite technical limitations
thx for proving the point

>>715013341
yahtzee croshaw is that you?

>>715009715 (OP)
>>715010895
3d blast is a true example of a 3D game btw.
Three axis. X, Y, Z.

>and nobody mentioned quake

>>715014130
nopony*

>>715013341
>pre-programmed height
Then why can a Caco fly up and down to try and reach a ledge or low ceiling?

>>715013368
>blah blah blah pseud pseud pseud
you can walk underneath cacodemons when they're high enough in retail doom so everything you said was wank

>>715013368
> Objects (monsters etc) can have a Z height but this is only used for drawing them
Weapon fire takes Z into account. Also, the fact that monster collision is infinite height has nothing to do with the map being 2d. Objects are processed in true 3d space, the reason why collision is infinite height is because its difficult to implement object collision vertically, objects end up getting stuck inside each other. Rockets are allowed to pass under/over objects due to the fact they explode on contact, so they can't get stuck.

>>715009715 (OP)
The game makes height calculations.. usually. The only thing I know of that doesn't factor Z axis is for monster height, making them impossible to pass pillars. But projectiles and hitscan, height DOES matter.

>>715013368
GZDoom has portals that are basically teleporters that show you your destination, I assume something similar is being used here.

>>715014126
That's basically most isometric games.
Sonic 3D blast, mario RPG, snake rattle and roll, landstalker, zx spectrum garbage 1, ZX spectrum garbage 2...

>>715014126
One interesting thing about sonic 3d, is that the 3d space defined by the collision data is very different to the visible layout, there is lots of impossible geometry.

>>715009715 (OP)
because the player viewpoint of things is first person in a 3d environment. the map design has been done in 2d but accounts for elevation in its own early 2.5d way.
wolfenstein 3d was 3d. doom is 3d. quake is 3d with 3d enemy and environment models. (and build engine is still 2.5d since my autism demands)

>>715014225
>the reason why collision is infinite height is because its difficult to implement object collision vertically
not really, it's just another axis. it's not even hard to implement, you just have to compare z values after the current collision check succeeds. it was probably not implemented for performance reasons.

>>715013637
>The splash damage has infinite height, but if the rockets don't hit anything they won't explode.

I'm pretty sure I could get blocked in thin air by cacodemons flying 50 feet above, on the last level of Doom 2. Too lazy to boot up PCEMU to test it though (I don't remember how the fuck you copy files to the drive images it uses).

I could be wrong, it has been 21 years since I last played it.

>>715014209
shut up

>>715009715 (OP)
The game is 3D but the renderer isn't. This isn't that hard to understand.

>>715013119
In a bungalow you can place on object above another. In Doom everything is on the same plane.

>>715015420
>I'm pretty sure I could get blocked in thin air by cacodemons flying 50 feet above
You can, but projectiles won't.

>>715015663
>In Doom everything is on the same plane.
that's not true at all

Doom and even Wolf3D are 3D even if they only appear so, because the player interacts with games at the level of appearances and not the engine. Video games, literally every computer program including OS is smoke and mirrors.
>um ackutally there aren't really files in folders its just array of bytes.
no shit files and folders are useful abstractions.

>>715011904
>polygons
not a necessity for 3D

>>715009715 (OP)
>paper mario isn't 3d
>demon turf isn't 3d
>system shock isn't 3d
>duke nukem 3d isn't 3d
>there are just three dimensions, and doom just has more verticality than like 95 percent of all videogames, that doesn't make it 3d
>videogames aren't 3d because my monitor is actually completely flat! its just an illusion!
INTERESTING TOPIC!

>an array of array of bytes is 1d
>yfw every game is 1d

>>715009715 (OP)
These kinds of threads are dumb and should get their OP's banned.

>>715016401
The OP is retarded but the thread is good.
I literally learned more about the doom engine here. i was pretty sure the weapon height was infinite, but alas it is not the case.

>>715009715 (OP)
this chestnut again?
doom is 3D because you have 3 axis (xyz)
wolfenstein 3D only had 2 axis (xy)

>>715009715 (OP)
>Explain how DOOM is 3D when there's not 3D models on it and the game is all pixel art sprites.

Using polygons is not a necessary condition for 3D graphics. It's just the most popular way.

Doom uses a primitive form of 3D, but it's 3D nonetheless.
2D fags are coping that the Z axis is only used for drawing, but that's clearly wrong as floors that are heigher enough can block the players movement, directly affecting gameplay. The player can also walk bellow enemies flying high enough. There's also fall damage and death based on height.

>>715017049
Actually, if you see some posts here, even things like weapon height are taken in account.
There is a "auto aim" system, but it has height limits.

>>715014171
nogenocide*

>>715016649
if being retarded would warrant an op being banned then there would be no threads in /v/

>>715017049
Doom is only partially 3D, it is a 2D game at heart with SOME Z axis information on SOME things like monster height but not on collision. This is mostly for performance reasons.

The biggest problem is that the maps are just 2d vectors, with each vector being a room with a bottom/top value. Rooms cannot intersect because they only have a x/y coordinate, you can't put one over the other. It's a top down shooter with some limited height information, with the distance from the player (plus the sector height) determining how "tall" a wall has to be drawn.
It's a deceptively simple concept and a great coding exercise to reproduce it.

>>715009715 (OP)
maps are mostly 2d data

sprites are 2d billboards

but if you shoot a rocket at an enemy, then another player walks off a higher elevation generated by said 2d map data, the rocket can pass underneath him, ergo being 3d
(and no, rocket explosions having infinite height is unrelated to this)

>>715009715 (OP)
Imagine a piece of paper. Now fold the paper in half. Now stab a pencil through it. The pencil is John Romero, and you must kill him to win the game

>>715010895
but there are stairs visible in the picture

>>715015663
>In Doom everything is on the same plane.
Projectiles can go above and under other entities, game's 3D.

>>715011115
Doom isn't 3d, you can't have multiple floors.
It's all 2d.

>>715023683
Enemies and entities are infinitely high. You can't walk over or under a Cacodemon in the original release of Doom. In fact they can melee you even.

I find this discussion kind of hilarious. Like, the guy is inside a 3D room, he can move around freely, and the projection of the 3D environment is calculated in real time in a mathematically accurate way, and he can judge the width, length, and height of things, but for some reason he thinks, “Nah, this isn't 3D.” LOL.

because things can be above or below you.
retard.

>>715009715 (OP)
It's technically not. The engine is incapable of having spaces exist above other spaces. All sprites, including your character, extend infinitely to the top and bottom of the world.

>>715010895
the maps are 2d but the movement is all processed in true 3d. missiles can fly over your head, for example.
>>715011193
i was mistaken, this opinion is much better and i will be believing this instead

>>715014209
by adjusting its height variable for accommodating to where its pathing tells it to go on part with another height variable

>>715024228
the level editor is incapable of it but not the runtime engine
>>715024110
this is untrue

>>715024379
nigger, what exactly is the difference between having a height variable and having a vertical axis? you do understand it's all just code, right? there arent real tiny little cacodemons inside your computer

>>715024309
>the maps are 2d but the movement is all processed in true 3d. missiles can fly over your head, for example.
Some things are more "true 3D" than others. The Cyberdemon's rockets, for example, move more accurately in 3D space than the other monsters' projectiles.

>>715024137
It's all youtubers, man. They've parroted the "akshually doom is 2.5D" meme without knowing what it means or even playing the game.

>>715024228
all that means is there is no multi floor support for the map format
you dudes really have no idea what 3D means do you?

>>715024636
if you want to do some "akshually" shit.
Then 2d games don't even exist thanks to the fact you have width, height, and layers of imagery ontop of other imagery.
Which represents a perpetual x, y, and z nigga
the z is what is drawn ontop of other shit!
akshually that mofugga

>>715024819
2D games don't allow you to move in a 3 dimensional space.

>>715024470
the difference is one is quite literally tit-for-tat hard programmed to fake the simulation of the other. with a proper vertical axis, you don't really NEED to accommodate for a lot of technicalities like the Doom engine did, and you don't get shit like the infinite height explosions since you can just designate a hitbox 3D radius with each one. meanwhile in said Doom engine, there's a lot of arbitrary necessities to do these tricks to fake various effects like enemy and projectile heights. the average modder may not realize some of these things since we've gotten so many things streamlined or use shit like GZDoom which can have a vertical axis, but it's just inherent to what the engine is.

carmack effectively took "fake it til you make it" personally

>>715024959
you can only move on two coordinate axis, that doesn't mean the third one doesn't exist as its used to dictate layers dumbass
which means 2d games don't even exist

>>715024137
It's marketing that goes back to PS1 era. All the consoles hyped up 3d games, which leads us to >>715011904, the definition shifting around PS1 era graphics (or higher) and looking like that more than anything else.

>>715025054
>you can only move on two coordinate axis
So it's a 2D game.

>>715024778
From what Carmack explained, it's an illusion of height, notice there are no true bridges in Doom that you can walk over and under.

>Dude, a height variable
Touhou literally has a depth variable and Krita has a depth variable in their layer system.

Is Krita a 3D editor now?

Is NES a 3D engine because there's a Z order variable when the game renders the graphics?

>>715025250
there is a z axis, so there are 3 dimensions

>>715025350
Krita has a Z axis.

>>715025398
yes, and that means it lets you manipulate all three dimensions you are observing. are you going to shit yourself when you have to deal with 4 dimensional math because you have no way to manipulate the 4th dimension?

>>715025350
Where is it?

>>715025516
Is mario 1-3 also 3D games because there's a Z order that makes background, sprites and GUI in separated layers?

>>715024819
kek I guess but they're games with the purpose of being played by humans so I rather define them by the dimensional thinking one's got to do to beat them. No one goes
>Wow this 2.5D game is making me think in 2.5 dimensions!
Doom is as 3D as >>715012439 and >>715014126

>>715025273
no bridge means no multi floor support
there is height: sectors got both floor and ceiling height
and neither means not 3D

>>715025664
mario has no z order - it has a sprite drawing order
on the nes the sprites have no z value
mario is 2D

>>715025632
>>715025664
You are looking at something that is designed around three coordinate axes, even moving mario around does in fact let you interact with all three too.
It is a 3d game.

>>715025250
you can fall and go up with elevators
and climb stairs
there is your third axis

>>715026002
>sprite drawing order is diferent for some magical reason from a Yorder node in godot
>mario having a foreground, a GUI, a middle ground and a background parallax means there's not a depth order

>>715026108
What third coordinate?

>>715026125
yes, but not magic: that is drawing order
sprites are in a list - the first sprite is behind the others
because it's drawn first
is this really so difficult?

>>715026125
There isn't, really. Sprites will always be drawn on top of tiles. It's part of the hardware.

What was your first 'what the fuck' moment when you discovered a 2D game was actually running on a 3D engine?

>>715026108
that is not three axes those are layers

>>715025702
>Doom is as 3D as...
Have you ever played Doom?
If so, did you notice the small detail that the rendered final image takes into account the position of a camera in a 3D space, and the game builds the 3D perspective of this image in real time?
Like... you can move this "camera" around in space, and the 3D space is accurately reproduced according to a geometric projection, allowing you to literally navigate in three dimensions while viewing things from different angles.
Can you move the camera in real time in Mario RPG or Sonic 3D Blast, resulting in a real-time rendering of these environments in three dimensions? Or are we just seeing a plane with tiles painted on it?

>>715026416
look at this reply, it also has a z axis to it, because layers are z.
what is your next step

>>715011264
>Nope, it's a raycaster just like wolf3D
factually wrong. The game doesn't cast rays at all.

>>715026220
>>715026312
So if I write a 2D game with a layer system and the game is touhou but with a button you can go up and down in this layer system, is that a 3D game?

Like if I took Krita and just changed the order of the layers with the mouse scroll.

Is that 3D?

>>715009715 (OP)
Shit like this is why 12 year olds think raytracing is necessary because using tricks to make mirrors work in old games "doesn't count" because the mirror is "not real".
These are the same little nigs that go to haunted houses and walk around going "That's not real" like a faggot.

>>715026125
>A sky is drawn.
>The ground is drawn.
>The ground erases the sky which disappears from existence since there's no Z dimension, only one object exists in Z-space

>>715026594
You can't manipulate the layers. They are not an axis.

>>715026671
>he thinks real 2d can exist in the 3rd dimension

>>715026486
I don't know what you're trying to argue, I'm saying that all those games are 3D because of how they're played.

>>715024636
>It's all youtubers, man. They've parroted the "akshually doom is 2.5D" meme

I've read magazine articles calling Doom 2.5D as early as 1997.

>>715026684
I'll show you something real.

>Well, actually, it was 3D except for (room over room, height values etc)
>Well, actually, it was 2D except for (height values, graphics presentation, etc)

Just fucking call it 2.5d and get it over with holy shit

>>715024959
>2D games don't allow you to move in a 3 dimensional space.
Streets of Rage 2 allows you to move in X and Y and Z coordinates, Z being up/down (depth) and Y being the jump.

>>715026726
they are an axis by their very existence of being layers

Is Mario Kart 64 a 3D game, or a 2D one?

>>715009715 (OP)
The environment and movement is in 3D, it's just that all the assets are sprites. Even Mario Kart 64 was mostly 2D sprites, with all the drivers, items, and some hazards being 2D.

>>715026817
You can't say it's only a half dimension.

>>715026358
I think the strongest it was and ever will be for me was GG xrd

>>715025250
Doom only allows you to move in two coordinate axes. You cannot alter your height, it is always tied to the ground, and the ground height is tied to metadata properties of a 2d vector.

>>715013368
>I don't know what those did to get picrel effect.
Silent teleporter. Dick Kickem 3D uses it for one of the secret level as well.
Usually the enemies are absent to not ruin the illusion.

>>715010895
There are rooms above rooms, just not often because they chose not to design the levels that way.

>>715026358
NSMB runs on SM64

>>715027057
>You cannot alter your height
Archviles can knock you into the air, and you can use your momentum to clear gaps.

>>715026636
for the curious this article shows how rendering is done
https://fabiensanglard.net/doomIphone/doomClassicRenderer.php
no rays in sight

>>715026358
Idk if it counts but finding out that mr game & watch in smash bros is 3d had me like that

>>715027040
Shut up, T.J. "Henry" Blascowvicks

>>715026671
if you only change layers it's still 2D
if changing layers doesn't affect gameplay doubly so

>>715026817
wolfenstein 3D can be considered 2.5D
no concept of 3rd axis in the code
but your view is full 3D
doom is full 3d with a limited sector based map format

>>715023965
You can have bridges AND walk underneath them. True story, I've seen it.

>>715027289
>he gives up defending the flawed existence of the term "2.5d" immediately.
heh...

>>715026934
a 3D game with prerendered sprites for drivers to save performance
the game is 3D the player model is not

>>715013368
Silent teleporter, you can do them in Doom nowadays.

>>715026671
>Is that 3D?
People will say that a game is 3D if they notice that perspective is being calculated in real time during the projection process, according to the camera position.
See how Unity uses 3D environments for all games, but you can render the image without perspective, and with the camera fixed on one of the axes, so people will call those games 2D even though there is a 3D environment behind the scenes.
Also note how Doom starts from a 2D floor plan, but the engine is able to project the three axes onto a plane in real time, and you can move around within that world while watching the perspective change depending on the camera position.
The first game is more 3D than the second in the engine level, but the rendering of the first is indistinguishable from a 2D game, while the projection of the second is indistinguishable from a 3D game.

>>715011362
that's a source port, dummy

>>715027491
true bridges were only added in the source ports e.g. gzdoom
before source ports bridges could be faked by
exploiting a bug with sectors but they were made
of infinitely thin walls and were a clever exploit

>>715011904
>make up own definition of 3D
>everyone but me is wrong
Based retard

>>715027718
Chocolate does not modify anything about the original game's behavior.

>>715024110
They specifically forgor to remove infinite height for collision and explosion radius (latter retroactively becoming intentional for the final boss in Doom 2 to work).
But hit detection (imp fireballs rocket trajectory, bullets etc etc) does account for height.

are you retarded? obviously the levels are rendered in 3D, Z axis is taken into account for most objects even if the object itself is a 2d sprite

OMG BROS.

Krita is a 3D Painting APP.

WTF.

:O

>>715009715 (OP)
>anon doesn't understand 3 dimensions
>anon believes that modern games are "3 Dimensional" when they literally only show you what you are looking at, at any given moment

3 dimensions means you can physically interact with all of the dimensions.

>>715028283
Yes but is this 2D?

>>715028475
>Clearly two characters standing side by side
3D image

>>715028520
>he doesn't see that there is layering representing a z axis aka depth in the form of the painted shit being smeared onto something else

>>715028626
>he doesn't about impasto techniques in painting

I've seen retards here argue over some of the dumbest shit imaginable but this is up there

>>715013368
For me, it's 5D

>>715030704
ah system shock

>>715011378
woooooooooooow, i just spoiled my spiritulal growth by reading this?
now i can't arrive to this astonishing thought by myself

>>715030934
>implying

>>715009715 (OP)
read these, they will explain it to you

you can literally see three dimensions in the picture. is this dead internet in action?

if this thread had zero comments i would love to explain the details of how DOOM works but i dont want to risk being redundant (and im not reading every reply) and i dont want my reply to get lost in the noise. so i'll say this much:
it's true 3d. the rendering scheme is column-based but it's not raycasting. every sector has floor and ceiling height values, and collisions involving those values are calculated, meaning there is a third dimension being taken into account. the fact that you can fall off a platform alone is proof that the game makes calculations in 3 dimensions under the hood. sprites also exist in 3 dimensions. in wolfenstein, there is no concept of height in regards to where things are located in the 3d world. there is a concept of screenspace height in wolfenstein, of course, because walls get drawn vertically and sprites are some number of pixels tall depending on their distance from the camera, but they do not have a Z or "height" position in 3d world space. not the case in doom. everything from the player, to enemies, to pickups, to visible projectiles has an x, y, and z coordinate location, as in 3d space, although collision bounding boxes between enemies and player were given infinite min and max Z values so there wouldn't have to be an extra calculation. still 3d though. and regarding the impossibility of room-over-room: this was only the case because map creation and occlusion culling were significantly easier to deal with. and probably a bit of hardware limitation as well. they very likely could have figured out, and possibly DID figure out, how room-over-room might be possible while still using column-based rendering, but were probably limited by hardware constraints.
anyway i ended up typing this shit out anyway lol.
TL;DR IT'S FUCKING 3D AND ROMERO SAID SO HIMSELF

>>715028283
that's funny because Krita does in fact use a 3d transformation matrix to dictate how the four points of a selection should ultimately appear in 2d screenspace. kind of like how literally every video game works, since screens aren't 3 dimensional. so you don't actually have a point, and DOOM is still 3d. see my comment >>715033829

>>715010895
if doom supported 2 rooms on the same sector (Y1 0-100, Y2 200-300) they'd say it's 4D

>>715009715 (OP)
This game bombed

>Carmack writes fast inverse square root for Doom
>HURR NOT 3D

Just read game engine programming black book: doom by fabien sanglard and you will actually understand beyond buzz words.