Thread 715048149

Why do JRPGs have the most bland turn-based combat possible? Do people actually find it engaging to just navigate through menus?

>>715048149 (OP)
what's a non bland turn based combat?

I don't care

Play SaGa Scarlet Grace.

>>715048149 (OP)
Go play your zoomer slop and fuck off.

>>715048402
Obviously the more minigames the better. At least four different types of blocks or dodges, timing, mashing or input sequences for attacking etc.
If you have to use your brain and plan things then it's a bland turn-based combat. It has to be action-based combat.

The Switch 2 doesn't have an JRPGs

>>715048402
bg3

>>715048149 (OP)
lol filtered

>>715048402
Etrian Odyssey

>>715048689
grid shit is a slog. 4 niggas in a row is and always will be peak.

>>715048616
Most people play JRPGs to relax, not to be stressed while playing it.
We play to unwind from our tiring daily lives, but I guess retards with no jobs like you dont understand when people play games to relax because you seek stupid challenges all the time to make your boring and pointless life more exciting

>>715048894
Holy autist.

>>715048402
JRPGs are made to be both relaxing and also challenging at the same time
You dont have to concentrate for timing, or any other retarded shit that needs your energy, but you can still see the challenge and use your mind to solve it through strategies instead of mindless hack and slash or rollslop

>>715048149 (OP)
I prefer 6-8 niggers in a square myself

>>715048402
Tactics turn based like front mission, xbox and tactical ogre

>>715048149 (OP)
It's a genre aimed at children playing on consoles. They enjoy the power fantasy and play the games mostly for story

>>715048992
Strategy and tactic rpgs are great but I hate that sometimes the maps are so big and the movement and animations so slow it takes like an hour to complete something

>>715049004
Xcom*

>>715048149 (OP)
E33 mogs every turd based game

>>715049438
t. >>715048616

Grandia solved turn based combat decades ago

KWAB

remove attack animations and you reduce the playtime from 140 hours to like 20 lmao
fuck jrpgs

>>715048992
For me, it's 4 niggas in a circle.

>>715048402
smt

>>715048402
I like the type where enemy actions are telegraphed.

>>715048149 (OP)
yes now go away

>>715048149 (OP)
>RPG
Whether it's action based or turn based, a game that relies solely on a stat system won't be engaging. Most of these RPG fags don't even care about the game anyway, they just want to press X to awesome and wank over a story they think is 2deep4u

>>715048402
arc rise Fantasia

>>715048402
Best J Turn Based Combat is VV

>>715048149 (OP)
To be fair DQ has probably the blandest gameplay among the JRPGs

>>715048149 (OP)
Gameplay isn't the main draw of JRPGs. Combat is merely functional and exists to support game narrative.

>>715050613
Fucking based

>>715048149 (OP)
Dragon Quest 11 has really fun combat but you have to turn on stronger monsters bare minimum because without it it’s baby’s first video game levels of easy. Preferably you’d also turn on no experience from weaker monsters too but that’s not as crucial.

>>715048616
E33 really was so meh in gameplay but I totally why normalfags eat that shallow shit up.
Even worse is how you can just read the pictos and start doing Gears of War shooting gallery instead of turnbased combat and it's the most braindead and easy way to win every fight sans 3 fire resistant bosses in the entire game and the mana leeching dragon that will aoe explode you.

>>715049438
E33 just confirms people don't necessarily have any issues with JRPGs. Rather, they're allergic to anime nonsense.

>>715048402
yiik, the original version

>>715050613
>mfw level scaled encounters
Such a great game otherwise, but fuck that shit.

>>715053921
Anime nonsense is the gargoyle that keeps the normgroid shitters out of my genre, and that's a good thing.

>>715053921
omega true.
I love the game, but if it had the animu art style like every other turnbased game that release in the past years I would've skipped it

>>715053921
Imagine if FF16 was a major success? Do you want JRPGs to go down the brown and bloom route?

>>715053921
arong, it's the exact opposite, it reconfirms that normalniggers are branded cattle with no taste and shit takes and don't like rpgs at all in the fucking slightest, but we already knew this via chrino trigger, earthbound, super mario rpg, and final fantasy 7, the 4 objectively shittiest games ever made and every normalnigger's entire list of rogs they 'like'

>>715053921
>Pointless melodrama with GBA FE tier twirling and jumping and dragon ball energy beams BUT FRENCH
>Not anime nonsense
E33 is painfully anime, it's more anime than a lot of JRPGs in fact because it's made by french weebs in the first place

>>715048402
>Interactive Combat
Action Commands like Mario RPG / Paper Mario where you get better results for timed button presses and other such interactions.
>Positional Based
Character abilities require the user/enemy to be in particular spots in the group/enemy group, same for the enemy party, with options to manipulate where you/the enemy is standing with skills. Games like Darkest Dungeon.
>Combat that high encourages buffs, debuffs, etc
When a game not only encourages but allows you to stun, blind, confuse, and other such afflictions to all enemies in the game, including bosses, it opens up the gameplay to something other than spamming Attack and [super move that takes 30sec to complete] all the time. This also allows regular fodder enemies to actually be dangerous because they're designed with you using debuffs or crowd control in mind, not mindless auto attacking. Games like Etrian Odyssey.

>>715048149 (OP)
Dragon Quest 8 and 11s combat are dogshit. Play Dragon Quest 4 on the DS if you want to see actual good gameplay.

>>715053921
>duuuuuude it was all a dream/vr
Literally THE most hated and cliche anime plot twist in history. Except this doesn't even have any good NPCs to get attached to the world so it's all just a big wet fart.
No, e33 proves that normalfags only want cutscenes that are pretty too look at and then clap with the music, no matter how shallow what is portrait actually is.

>>715049557
based
Wanted to mention it
With a bit of tweaking it would be such a fun system
My only complain is that 1 and 2 were just way too easy (but I haven't played 3)

>>715049557
>>715054773
It's disappointing how few games copied that combat system.

>>715054121
why are you bringing up FF16 when we are talking about JRPGs?

>>715054859
Live A Live did it too. The battle map felt really tiny against those giant later bosses.
>>715054898
lol no argument.

>>715055154
The grid got extremely tedious when you wanted to grind. At least the girl martial artist, the cowboy's charged machine gun shot, and the Cola Bottle basically nuke the screen, but it's still tedious.

Do Japanese devs even care enough about the west’s tastes or E33 enough to adopt any of its design decisions?

>>715055368
Japanese devs love pandering to the West, they want the big bucks from a global hit. That's why FF stopped making turn-based games in the first place.

>>715055154
>duuuuuude it was all a dream/vr
If that's how you interprated the story, you're a fucking retard. By that logic all games are "vr" and nothing matters. Who cares if Aerith died? She isn't real so it doesn't matter. Dumb cunt.

>>715055368
>Do Japanese devs even care
No, but shareholders hold more executive power than devs, which is why everyone is begrudgingly kowtowing to send signals to shareholders

>>715055368
I think the allure of western market has become impossible to ignore. Japanese market is NOT growing. So far small-mid size projects can get away with it, but it's clear bigger ones want to cast the net wider. Then you also have more and more western takes.

>>715048149 (OP)
Xcom2

>>715048149 (OP)
>Do people actually find it engaging to just navigate through menus?
That's 90% of videogames. So yes.

>>715048402
etrian odyssey, tactics ogre luct+one vision

>>715048149 (OP)
jrpg niggas be like "i can't have aNYTHING deviate AT ALL from how it's been for the last 50 years"
realistically, if jrpg turns weren't so slow, who would lose

>>715055490
he didn't play the game, he's parroting other retards (who also didn't play the game)

>>715048402
Tactics or games where positioning matters

>>715055354
Yeah it's a good foundation but clearly could have done with more work on it. Touhou-A-Live is generally the better game because it does more with the concept as fangame.

>>715053921
E33 has the most embarassing halfwit melodrama story I've ever experienced. Its literally worse than your average anime writing because of how seriously it takes itself

>>715054561
lmao

>>715055997
>because of how seriously it takes itself
that's a good thing you irony-poisoned mongoloid

>>715048149 (OP)
>Do people actually find it engaging to just navigate through menus?
I do, actually
I fucking love numbers, so seeing numbers go up is the most fun part of any video game to me, I don't care if it's in an action RPG or a turn-based RPG

>>715055875
>he didn't play the game
But I did. Here a webm of exploring which is the only other thing the game does well besides the OST.

>>715055997
story takes itself seriously, the game itself does not

>>715048149 (OP)
Sorry zoom zoom
Have you tried watching some family guy funny moments while playing, or having someone dangle some keys infront of the game while you play?

>>715048550
>check it
>wtf it was a vita game, why the fuck I never saw it?
>Japan exclusive with no en patch
And another one

>>715048402
hearthstone
dragon quarter

>>715048402
BG3
DOS2
HOMM3/HOMM4
DD
JA2
XCOM2

>>715048149 (OP)
Pokemon 2v2 is berry complex

>>715055997
sorry not every game is written in quirky chungus whedonisms for your soilennial tastes anon

>>715048149 (OP)
I dont think people find it engaging, its just that people are used to it and don't know any better.

You'd be surprised how many JRPG fans refuse to try anything new, they stick to the same genre and to them thats the ceiling for quality.
Not only is the combat bland, its also easy, boring and very restrictive, its not strategic or tactical, its not satisfying to learn and master because its shallow.
It just exists to pad out the visual novel segments because lets face it, this genre is all about the story and the combat is one excuse to pad out the time between each cutscene or rather dialogue boxes.
Also the encounter design is horrendous, its full of cookie cutter and repetitive enemies that do the same thing and are defeated using the same method. and there is a lot of them, its full of filler, its really really mediocre at best and downright shit at worst.

Just dismiss anyone who fanboys for this system. dismissed and ignored and disrespected, opinions thrown in the garbage. always. and yes that include SMT, overrated shit series as well.

>>715057841
Nigger, the upgraded rerelease is on steam and really every fucking platform known to man including your phone

>>715048149 (OP)
JRPGs that reward thought and strategy where you actually need to think about your next action because otherwise you'll be sorely fucked are literally the peak of gaming. Shame most don't do that.

>>715054126
If you like either E33 or Fatlus stuff in both cases you're a tastelet stop being deluded thinking you're a patrician.

>>715059285
>JRPGs that reward thought and strategy
Name at least 3.

>>715048149 (OP)
Compare this simple but decent-looking UI with that of the Dragon Quest 3 HD-2D Remake. What were they thinking? Why is the UI so much worse? AHHHHHHHHHHHHH the ugliness of it is beyond description
>>715049438
I got Metaphor: ReFantazio on play-asia for 40€. Also, I don't think Atlus has ever made an AAA game, since this one is clearly AA

>>715048149 (OP)
I don't have the energy for this right now

>>715048782
there's no grid in bg3. positioning matters and makes battles so much more interesting.

>>715060798
BG3 positioning is largely a formality

>>715048402
>all those replies and still no Grandia
Grandia

>>715048149 (OP)
>navigate through menus
Do people really have a problem with this? It's usually only two buttons to get the option you want.

>>715061459
>Grandiafags in charge of reading comprehension

>>715054773
>>715054859
can Grandia be played in "active mode"?

>>715060798
positioning
verticality
lighting
environmental objects
environmental element status
aoe spell placement
different gimmicks introduced depending on the encounter like spores or machines
spells can be combined for a new effect
enemy variety
throwables

positioning alone can't carry, dragon age had positioning, but its combat is still shallow.
its always the whole package

i feel tactics ogre did positioning really well, but its still rather dull and not that deep considering the spell variety for example is a farce, its just the same thing with different color.

i dont ask devs to make tb like larian's. for me something like heroes of might and magic is already great, but if they expand the depth sure why not i will not complain.

>>715050613
Its amazing how this game is so approachable while also being one of the most autistic things ever made. Its like a glimpse into a parallel world where normal people are all grognards

>>715048550
idk if i should get it on steam or switch
i really want another game with turn based combat as good as FFX

>>715048402
Worms

>>715061459
lol no Grandia is a bad system. where did you download that opinion from?

>>715049557
Conceptually it was great but the encounter design across the whole franchise is garbage and AoE spam always ends up erasing all the fun factor of the battle system. Feels amazing to purposefully dodge attacks by pathing yourself in a huge loop

>>715048894
Why don't you play an actual laid back game, like Animal Crossing, or any adventure game?
I don't understand wanting combat that you can just mash through, as a thing. Isn't that just boring?

>>715062309
They have no story

>>715053974
>level scaling kicks in
>new enemies make the old guys look like pussies in blankets
>get my teeth kicked in the for next hour
>finally start coming to grips with how to fight these bastards
>level scaling kicks in
>new enemies make the old guys look like pussies in blankets

>>715048402
Fire Emblem Engage

>>715054030
Basado

>>715048149 (OP)
interesting combat systems filter the lions share of micro brained jarpig fans. Most of them don't even understand half the mechanics in Pokemon

>>715063215
pokemon is so easy that there's no reason to understand 90% of the mechanics

>>715048149 (OP)
They don't, you just play the wrong ones. This is literally ALWAYS the case with people who act like turn based is inherently boring.
Also if you're using the OP as an "example" that's disingenuous as fuck because everyone and their dog knows that DQ is intentionally a very basic and typical JRPG franchise.

Turn based RPGs have a different flow than action RPGs, they are not replaceable with each other. Sometimes it's fun to just sit back and enjoy some strategic menu kino with cutscene attacks.

>>715063215
What is better turnbased system
pokemon or persona?

>>715062339
Adventure games are all story.

>>715063558
Which JRPGs have good combat then?
Closest thing I came across recently was Baten Kaitos, which I though was neat, but also needlessly obscure and confusing.

>>715063680
Doubles > Press Turn > Singles > Shitsona's 1 More

>>715063407
The average Pokemon game is harder than most classic FF games.

>>715064029
Whats the best of each type?

it's comfy, btw Dragon Quest XI is NOT an easy game if you turn on the stronger monsters option in the draconian settings

Why do retards think difficulty equals good combat system?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

>>715064212
because difficulty forces the player to engage with the systems and form strategies rather than spamming basic attack

>>715064212
Turn based combat needs to be at least a little hard to give you those moments of analysis between choices. If you're going to make some button masher retardation fest like FF7 it might as well be an action game for the extra catharsis

>>715048402
Expedition 33.

>>715064292
What if there is no systems? difficulty doesnt equal systems and doesnt equal good gameplay either.
>>715064294
I can agree with that, but difficulty is like 10% of combat quality all things considered, if you have complex systems but the game isn't very hard its still preferable to a shallow system but its hard.
Any retard dev can tweak stats to make it hard and reduce the window of mistakes, doesnt make the system good

>>715064143
I tried playing on this setting and I have to grind several levels to not get one shot vs each boss. It sucks compared to dq8 where you can switch up your strategy, explore a little, or hope for better rng. Does it get any better once the world opens up?

>>715064143
Hard Monsters really shows off how much of an RNG ridden shitfest this game is if you aren't grinding. Everything from buffs to which party member goes first or if you even get to act before the boss double taps you is pure RNG tomfoolery

>>715055368
every design decision in E33 comes from jap games

>>715062309
>someone tells you they like rock paper scissors
>tell them to play shadow puppets instead because you prefer thumb wrestling

>>715049625
Cool. Remove the attack animations from every action game as well.

>>715064212
Risk/reward is basically what you want in turn based. That's what makes Poker so fun.

>>715064294
The fact that people will then complain when FF gets turned into a button masher, suggests to me they really just don't like playing games.
they don't like thinking, and they don't like being expected to have basic reflexes and get out of the way when a guy attacks them.
It really is just "let me play my story game, and watch battle animations, and reward me a gold star when the number goes up", with these people.

>>715064023
Legend of Legaia

>>715065041
It's more like someone tells me they like Rock Paper Scissors to relax, and I suggest something more relaxing, and they look at me with confusion in their eyes.
And then they say "but Rock Paper Scissors has a story", and I say "read a book", and they throw me out of their home.

>>715065774
Deserved, because you're an annoying faggot

>>715065828
I do be right tho

>>715065774
>every conversation is a battle that I must win
You are insufferable

>>715065591
Anon what they really want is to drive a toy airship around a miniature map world.

This is the biggest complaint about the FF series since 2001, that these little airship playrooms are missing.

>>715065906
I would argue JRPGfans started it by being weirdly elitist, and looking down their noses at people who like action games for years.

>>715062032
It's nice to play on a portable.

>>715065947
Well, I do get that.

>>715048149 (OP)
cause asians are autistic - low innovation, like the repetition, keep they same stale systems for ages

>>715064504
>what if there is no systems?
then it isn't a game
I have no idea what you're getting at, games are by definition systems of rules governing interactions
if you don't want to engage with gameplay systems go watch TV

>>715048149 (OP)
Yes

>>715065989
>I would argue
I have no doubt of this, did not need clarification

>>715065774
>Don't do what you want to do because I (random retard on the internet) don't like it
How about no

>>715055837
Even on the SNES you had jrpgs like Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean mixing shit up. Final Fantasy even went from strict turns to the active time battle system. Then as time went on we got even more unique shit like Wild Arms 4 and 5 using a hex based battle field, Valkyrie Profile letting you combo party member attacks together, VP2 having a positional system where you can break off enemy body parts to impact drops and how the enemy fights, Resonance of Fates hero actions, tri attacks, and being able to take cover behind objects. The Last Remnant letting you command entire squads of people to deadlock with the enemy, keeping them from being able to freely engage with other units. Persona games have press turn, Bravely Default lets you take multiple actions at once at the cost of delaying your next turn, Octopath has its weakness system.

JRPGs are varried as fuck, even when they stick to a turn based system. Even when they don't you get shit like Unicorn Overlord or the Xenoblade series.

>>715048149 (OP)
just go play an action game
I think people that like action games like dark souls and modern warfare are retarded

>>715065989
>I am justified in being a retard because of a completely separate argument I made up in my head
checks out

>>715066139
The entire point of the internet is to be kind of obnoxious and start arguments with people.

SMT Vengeance for JRPGs
Baldur's Gate 3 for CRPGs

>>715066182
I think most "JRPG fans" are not fans of JRPGs as a genre, but simply fans of one or two specific franchises and have not engaged with anything outside of those at all.

Final Fantasy fans tend to ONLY play FF and are scarcely even aware that SE makes any RPG that's not FF.

>>715048402
Resonance of Fate is one of a kind.

>>715065774
So what was the last book you read?

>>715065203
animation based combat vs. a complete waste of resources and your time

>>715066291
The point of the internet is to share information, particularly your personal information with the government.

>>715066291
No, that's what you justify your existence with. The internet is for porn.

>>715066401
Das Kapital volume 2.

>the entire point of online is to be unpleasant on purpose and to make things as stinky as possible! I know this because idiots told me when I was a kid!
September will never ever ever ever ever ever end, bros

>>715066401
Completed, or read?
Cause I'm in the middle of about ten books. I read a Robert E Howard story a couple of weeks ago, if that counts.
The best thing I read recently was the Book of the New Sun series, which I went through a while ago.
I guess I finished Whitley Strieber's Communion a little while ago, which doesn't entirely count, because it's non-fiction. Well, allegedly.
I was also reading the HellBlazer comics, which would count as very light reading.

>>715066650
ok. I'm sorry I was mean about your tastes, that you can't explain or logically justify.

>>715066707
None of that sounds particularly interesting, maybe you should play games instead

>>715048149 (OP)
>Do people actually find it engaging to just navigate through menus?
Yes, you baiting retard. It is nice to actually think about the 50 different moves everyone has, how they can interact, and execute a plan involving the characters you have picked out of them in the way you desire. It is much more engaging than mashing roll, or r2, or mashing circle until you get to do a real action. FFX is the easy example, if it were not turn based and were designed to appeal to you retards you could not do any of the things in that game, none of the abilities would matter, none of the characters would matter, none of your equipment would ever matter, you would never swap, you would just keep hitting x and rolling.
>b-b-b-but its easy i can just mash x and win in turn based games
Okay, great, the rest of us don't retard the rest of us like to engage our brains a little bit in relation to strategies and evaluating rough math and that's the whole fun of them

>>715066875
I also play games.

>>715055837
Nigga play more jrpgs, dragon quest 1 is probably faster paced than what you play

>>715048402
Heroes 3

>>715067012
>FFX
>Strategy
90% of the abilities in FFX don't matter, even after the nerfs in the international version Quick Hit still completely breaks the combat and even before you get Quick Hit there's no real depth

How much of the side character story stuff do you have to do in Metaphor? Do you have to engage with all of that or can you just follow up the ones that you think are interesting or characters that you like?

>>715067787
You have so much free time in Metaphor that you'll be forced into doing everything unless you go out of your way to hide in your room like an ugly nerd

>>715067787
You can do whatever you want, but like the other anon said you have very generous time in that game so you'll just be wasting a lot of time taking baths or doing random shit instead.

>>715067859
Oh gross. At least you can choose to be a nerd. I saw some of the start of the game and I like the main story hook a lot. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

>>715048894
>relax
That's what sleep is for. You do not need to relax while you are awake. I hate slothy fags like you. Do things. Action Action Action, then sleep.

combat in dragon quest is good if you dont grind.

most people dont understand that you dont have to grind. they spend hours grinding outside of town then complain the combat sucks. you dont have to do that.

>>715067205
If you're into roguelites try Star Renegades, that one's a fun take on it.

>>715068060
The game's plot peaks with Liberal Moon Dad's introduction and spends the rest of the 50 hours squandering its premise as it devolves into power of friendship faggotry. The writing is still above average by JRPG standards but the strength of basic press turn combat is going to be doing the heavy lifting

>>715068487
I meant to reply to this >>715051181

>>715054773
>(but I haven't played 3)
3 is even easier, but it also improves the system which is impressive when grandias system was already so good as it is
the addition of aerial combos involving multiple characters juggling is just fucking cool, but its not completely broken either its just a good addition
if you want 'hard' grandia there's literally only one option, unfortunately its grandia extreme and the 'hard' part is just the optional superboss at the end of the 100 floor dungeon

>>715068754
the setup to make that work is also part of the gameplay my friend :)

>>715048149 (OP)
why are dragon quest's dragons so sexy

>>715053921
I don't take anyone who uses the term "JRPG" seriously
>>715054030
stop being anti-semetic goy! let the westoid slop flood the genre!

>>715062078
the encounter design was fine, you can literally solve it being aoe spam - which it isn't btw because it has insane single target damage moves that are half the time the optimal play - by a little number tweaking
grandias only real fault that isn't content - i.e no post game, no optional superbosses, 2 doesn't even have a single optional dungeon, 1 only has 3 and 1 of them is early on - is that bosses are neutered by going for the torso or main part because everything else dies when that dies AND you still get all the loot and exp from the other parts
if you ignore the 6 dragon heads and kill the body, you should at the very least lose out on the loot from the 6 heads
i always kill all the boss parts before the main one anyway and that's really how it should be by force - and the remaining parts should get stronger to make up for it the more other parts you kill to keep the fight from becoming steamroll no threat

XII is JRPG perfection.
It takes the actual essential part of JRPG combat, which is the party setup and plan (comp, gearing, spell and skill usage, item conservation, etc) and frontloads all of it before the fight even begins and then allows you to see all your work play out in real time without bothering you with extra button presses for what you already know you're going to do, but still allows you to stop the action and make adjustments on the fly for when your plan isn't working out as well as you thought. It skips all the tedium of random encounters without skipping them entirely.

>>715067217
You're the retard I was talking about
>b-b-b-but its easy i can just mash x and win in turn based games
I already addressed this shitty argument. You don't want to enjoy the game or do things your way, you want to do things the optimal way with the least thinking, input and of the least resistance.
You know about quick hit because it's 25 years later, you did not know about quick hit and just how good it was when the game came out.
Your complaint boils down to "the balance is bad, so instead of number tweaking we should just remove all the systems and make it action slop"
Please shut the fuck up man. I'm sure you also complain that the dark aeons are poorly balanced too because they're too difficult and unreasonable without x amount of grinding per aeon. Or did you just yojimbo them all and dodge the encounter design because it was the easiest and least input path? I'd bet that one, because the reality is 98% of all people who ever beat the dark aeons did so in one of only two ways, 1 being yojimbo, 2 being grind to max stats before even fighting them. Almost nobody actually engaged with the encounters at the power level they were intended to be for, but you'll still sit here and shit talk "abilities are useless no strategy needed" despite doing everything you can to sidestep the encounter design.

>>715069912
>You don't want to enjoy the game or do things your way
The problem is that FFX doesn't let me do things my way either, it's a linear moviegame with zero character building let alone player agency.
>I'm sure you also complain that the dark aeons are poorly balanced too because they're too difficult
What's difficult about Dark Aeons exactly?
Nobody engages with the encounters because they're boring as shit and the systems behind the game are shallow as fuck, the nonexistent balance is just one of the many problems of FFX.

>>715069486
Nah it's bad for the same reason star ocean is bad - and star ocean is exceptional btw but it still has obvious flaws. When you do this, when you have ai control, or gambits, the only way for encounters to "interact" with you is generally to one shot your party members in any difficult scenario. Which means more than half your actual inputs is continually reviving them over and over and over. It's really shit. Every etheral queen and gabriel celeste fight is just this, in so3 even going so far as to put 2 characters on manual so they do nothing in corners just to switch to and revive the others every 10-15 seconds.
Regular jrpgs have attrition, games like ff12 - after you get sufficiently far into them - completely lose the attrition aspect and healing becomes pointless, it's just die and revive spam by the end, having 1hp is the same as 7000hp

>>715070284
I don't think that's true at all, especially in the post-autobattler blow up era we're in where this territory has been well and truely mapped out.

>>715070061
>zooms back and forth across battlefield
wtf why don't they defend themselves?

>>715048421
TPBP

>>715048402
Shadow hearts 1~3, legend of the dragoon, Grandia 1~3, child of light, and wild arms5 have some interesting turn based combat

I see the term "J"RPG, I hide the thread. Positive or negative doesn't matter, anyone suckered i to using that term either hates good RPGs or is not worth talking to about them. Just wanted to get that out, goodbye.

>>715049438
After playing the game I cannot believe that the constant pandering for this game is natural. I mean its not bad, but this level of adoration? Who in the "40" member-team is making all of this shilling?

>>715072190
I think you need to learn what words mean anon, people are just really liking the game and sharing their enjoyment of it that’s not shilling. You come off as a joyless person.

>>715064576
>>715064574
The beginning was really tough, but afterwards I never felt roadblocked. Some fights were really fucking close, but that's about it.

>>715071263
J

>>715048149 (OP)
It's extremely difficult to make turn based interesting. E33 did it with qte, almost the worst way to innovate the formula. I tried some systems with rpgm and I must say : if you craft each fight, it's possible. The problem is the level system. If people out level the obstacles, it's owari da. If you are scrounge mc duck regarding euqipment, people will cry artifical difficulty. To Reborn did it with enemies out leveling the player, boring. To beat the enemies you have to use cards, and they spawn in unfavourable positions, leading to the overleveled enemies cheesing you. It's not easy for a dev to make it interesting and devs neither care enough, nor do they have time enough to innovate.

>>715053921
You say this but you have all the biggest normalfags streamers playing an anime girl horse gacha game with idol otaku pop concert

>>715061268
Not really, not compared to OS2 for sure. There isn't a ton of movement skills in BG3, usually tied to specific subclasses or requires a spell slot.

>>715055997
It is not shit because its serious, its shit because of many other reasons.
- More than half of the characters are completely irrelevant for the plot and just stand on the back waiting for you to end the cutscene.
- The whole contruction of the world is completely thrown aside after the major plot twist.
- The game is filled with alien concepts that it does not give a damn about explaining to you.
- The "romances" are pointless and seemed tacked in for no good reason.

cant beat 4 niggas in a row

>>715072190
People really do "stan" video games, and their online presence becomes about defending certain games.

>>715048149 (OP)
SaGa Emerald Beyond is top shelf. It's crazy how addicting that game is, but it desperately needed a larger selection of different enemies and bosses

>>715073063
Yes, really.
But you're right that it's nowhere as bad as OS2, OS2 movement straight up doesn't matter but OS2 is a terrible game in general.

>>715072646
>Let people have fun
>"E33 is just better than ANY turn based game."
Dude, its been almost four months since this game has been released and people still talk about it like is the second coming of christ and a masterpiece revolution that will take us from the darkness of turn-based games. It is not wrong for people to like a game, but after I experienced it, this reaction I've witnessed seems forced, or worse, deranged. Specially when it comes to a game that I found out to be completely mediocre.

>>715073947
*three months

>>715053921
Anime is great, when it isn't just the most formulaic and juvenile shit in the world.
If you actually look at anime, it doesn't have to be little kids saving the world, and the same basic harem of girls you've seen 50 times (the quiet one, the firey one, the outgoing one, the older conscientious one, etc).
You can have Ghost in the Shell, Lupin the Third, Redline, Votoms, Dirty Pair, Space Captain Harlock, Black Lagoon, Cobra, Ninja Scroll. I could go on.

>>715074239
>jazz copypasta
>examples are all normgroid horseshit

>>715074352
Where did I say "obscure"?
All of that stuff is popular because it isn't shit, anon.

>>715074239
Yeah. But those are old examples that are either A) dead or B) long running franchises. There's a reason why anime stereotypes are what they are.

>>715074421
>isn't shit
>ninja scroll
lmao

>>715073947
Yea you learn to ignore different opinions than your own and stop getting triggered by them when your become a adult.

>>715074481
Because people just kind of arbitrarily stopped making cool stuff to pander to pedophiles?

>>715073675
The core systems are so ridiculously well done I don't really care about the low-ish enemy variety, the character building alone is too good and the unique progression makes it immensely replayable since the game always remixes content on NG+ cycles.

>making a X number of niggas on a grid turn-based game
What're some things I should do and not do? Should I make it comfy or challenging?
Thoughts on QoL features like autobattling and no/instant animations?

>>715075207
Give the player the abilty to push/displace opponents, and make sure that enemies aren't so mobile frail rangers become useless

>>715048149 (OP)
the reason those types of games work is that it fills the niche of 2 groups.

(1) the obvious, little kids who arent good at games. they will think its the hardest challenge ever.

(2) people who are either ok, to good at games, but just want a low stress chill time for the moment. they will pick up a high octane game when they get enough time to unwind first.

>>715066364
Homo Gate 3 Jew Bear Sex is terrible.

>>715074481
Because modern Japanese animators are unimaginative freaks incapable of any originality or meaningful narrative?

>>715075506
Something I already considered and want as a mechanic, even it's a bitch to code in since it fucks with the enemy cpu ai and requires extra precautionary steps when it comes to terrain.
Speaking of terrain, thoughts on interactables like destructible environment and unique tiles providing buffs/debuffs?

>>715073947
so just like metaflop
normalfags are the most insufferable kind of trash to ever fester on earth

>>715075732
in my head the same people who shit on turn based jrpgs also say pcs are for work and consoles are for sitting back on the couch to relax playing vidya

>>715048149 (OP)
They used to experiment around 20 year ago.
But then they noticed that weebs have no taste and will even buy the most generic slop possible.

I haven't played a recent JRPG with a good combat system.

>>715049438
Soul vs Unreal slop

>>715075207
Do you let other members/ monsters in the same grid? Because you can do some interesting like wild arms 5 and have combo attacks with people in the same grid and make grids have different effects

>>715076582
You don't play JRPGs at all and you bought slop 20 years ago

>>715048402
this

>>715076905
>a bunch of generic attacks
What's supposed to be interesting about this

>>715076985
attacks are all input command based and not just a single click

I hate ATB, it's like turn based but you're not allowed to actually to think about what your next movie

>>715076985
It also isn’t showing that you can combo the inputs to do arts, super arts, hyper arts, and mytic arts. I know in the second game I had it set so I could combo to always use my hyper arts and get all my ap(?) back

>>715076905
Is there any reason to do all of that stuff? Is there a tactical advantage to doing a left rather than a right?

>>715077045
>>715077213
And? Still doesn't make it interesting.

>>715077371
>complains about jrpgs being bland with simple combat system
>game offers a different combat system thats more engaging and still compains
dont be a faggot

>>715077196
infinite time makes turns games into puzzles and makes them trivial and stale. time limits reward quick wit and add excitement and snappiness to the mix

>>715077570
Is there a tactical advantage though?

>>715077196
I always think it’s strange when people say ATB and turnbased are the same, like it’s fucking not if you take time to think about your move in ATB a mob can hit you more than once

>>715077652
if youve played fighting games and built combos you should know the answer to that

>>715077570
>more engaging
If there's no difference between which commands you use then it isn't.
>b-but you get a finisher at the end!
If those finishers have no differences between them then it's not more engaging.

>>715077708
So, is there?

>>715077568
That’s just your opinion anon, I think it is and that anon does aswell.

>>715077770
yes retard

>>715077776
We're not arguing opinions here.

>>715076905
Let me guess, you just spam that same string every turn.

>>715077652
>>715077770
Anon stated in >>715077213 that there is, you are being obtuse

>>715077968
And what do those arts do?

>>715077858
We aren’t arguing at all, this is what wrong with a lot of you faggots, you think everything is a debate to win.

>>715078106
There's nothing to win so your post is dripping in irony. Regardless, something like depth can be measured.

>>715055368
>Do Japanese devs even care enough about the west’s tastes
Depends on the dev, and what they take away from it may vary.

>>715048149 (OP)
There are jrpgs that are harder, but many of them are not about moment to moment engaging gameplay but using a video game to simulate going on an adventure, if you're an adhd zoomer without imagination you wouldn't be able to appreciate it.

>>715078275
They're terrible at being simulations as well.

>>715078049
Pretty much super moves, it’s basic stuff of having arts that gain ap and arts that you use ap. https://youtu.be/QQMkRIVUwHI?si=uGXf436DMQq-xlPT

>>715078275
You need good writing for that. And everyone knows how bad JRPG writing tends to be.

>>715076896
Prove it.

>>715078570
God I fucking love legaia 2 https://youtu.be/Vc69a5TgkO4?si=lHaehLKE5HYEA1mg

>>715066108
>I have no idea what you're getting at
Its pretty simple where im getting at.
Game system and their complexity has very little to do with the game difficulty.

A game can be difficult with a simple and shallow system, and a game can be easy but still offer a lot of complexity in its systems.
Example: Battletoads vs Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.
The conclusion is that difficulty is not related to complexity of gameplay or combat and therefore it has very little regard to its quality.

>>715048402
nocturne autobattle.webm

>>715048149 (OP)
The real anseer is becuase JRPGs are Japanese movie games and are designed to be basic as fuck so they can focus on story, narrative, cinematics, presentation, etc.

JRPG is a genre. There are plenty of Japanese RPGs from other genres that have good combat. Like SRPGs, DRPGs, etc.

>>715048616
So this means Sonic Chronicles is the best RPG ever made.

>>715078267
That's strange, I'm not sure what Strange Journey and Oblivion have in common.

>>715078782
Okay, what was the last JRPG you enjoyes twenty years ago?

>>715048402
Crystal Project

>>715062309
>Mash through
I am constantly filtered by JRPGs the second they get hard and require actual strategy and character building, and I can faceroll my way through any action game on the highest or second highest difficulty

>>715079129
>I'm not sure what Strange Journey and Oblivion have in common.
they're both overrated garbage

>>715048149 (OP)
My biggest issue(after playing a lot) is that in 99% of jrpg's 99% of all encounters need zero thought. Like they could do auto battle for almost all and the only thing that would change is the game length.
Turn based can be good and even stressfull if done even slightly correctly, but in like most games it sucks.

Also whats up with status effect spells that dont work on bosses in jrpg's?
Oh sleep spell? Oh it only works on creatures I can already kill in one hit?
What the fucks the point?

>>715079289
TRUKE

>>715078968
I can namedrop The Grey Garden here. it has all the systems in place to allow for strategic thinking and planning but the enemy HP+attack values and your own make it so piss easy that autobattle solves any fight.

>>715079134
Grandia 2

I haven't played a jrpg in 20 years. Recommend your top 5 picks.

>>715079391
>Also whats up with status effect spells that don't work on bosses in jrpg's?
This really isn't a common thing and I really want to see the faces of the ghouls who keep repeating this meme.

>>715048149 (OP)
Because combat is not the only thing you're going to be doing in them. This is like complaining about shallow combos in a beat em up when compared fighting games.
It's amazing how a little bit of abstraction can completely throw off people who only focus on the immediately appreciable qualities of a system, I've retards.

>>715048402
SaGa Scarlet Grace/Emerald Beyond
Into the Breach
Divinity: Original Sob
Slay the Spire

>>715065772
>>715076905
I don't know why you would act like Legaia has good combat. Its interesting at first, but has about as much depth as Legend of Dragoon.

>>715077953
Pretty much, except you charge your AP in between each attack to extend your bar to fit more hits and do stronger arts. Also use magic to heal your whole party every couple turns too.
It gets very boring before you're even halfway done with the game.

>>715079698
*Compared to
*i.e.
Fuck I'm drunk

>>715079391
>99% of jrpg's 99%
I give a 99% chance you haven't played a single jrpg in your life.

>>715079698
Beat em ups are less about combos than they are about spacing and crowd control. Final Fight has 2 buttons and has more depth & variety in its individual encounters than most action games

>>715076905
what game pls

>>715048689
>>715048737
>>715049004
>>715058517
>>715062056
All of these + Temple of Elemental Evil & Age of Wonder + TroubledShooter Abandoned Children

>>715054121
Ff16 copied its entire plot from Tales of Arise. Like, 1:1 perfect copy but switched the names.

>>715079549
See? I was right, you don't play videogames

>>715079869
I agree. And jRPGs are not about individual combat encounters or tactics, they're about resource management and exploration.

>>715079513
In this case it becomes simple, just tweak the numbers. So yeah a game like that should on paper be good combat or good gameplay.

I never heard of this game i'll take your word for it.

>>715080027
I accept your concession.

>>715053862
Genuinely retarded. YOU LOST.

>random jrpg memory
>play lufia 1 because lufia 2 was so good(yes I am european)
>get to the overworld
>insane random encounter rate is driving me insane
>buy item to lower it and use it
>gives me 1(ONE) more tile to walk before the next encounter

>>715055837
JRPGs are the genre with the most diverse gameplay of any videogames.

>>715080027
NTA but that did get a hd release so they could have played it last week

>>715080178
Still no argument?

>>715080258
I'm 35, I pirated and played the original on PC.

>>715061481
They have a problem with it so much that persona 5 revolutionized turn based combat by having every face button be an action at the cost of having the screen covered in menu buttons.
God forbid we press up or down a couple times.

>>715076905
Meh, functionally it is not different than just selecting abilities from the list, especially after you unlock them

>>715080103
It's one of the rpgmaker games that vgperson translated. Heavy story and character focus but battles were kept in. Another that is actually challenging and well designed is Standstill Girl.

>>715079884
legend of legaia

>>715048402
Mario and Luigi SS

>>715080151
Accept whatever you want, I'm right and you just proved it, you don't play vidya and stuck to mediocre games in the first place pretending you're a patrician because you're too starved for hipster validation to play the same kind of mediocre stuff that keeps getting made to this very day.
>>715080382
It didn't even do that, games like Last Ranker did it way before P5

>>715048402
The Last Remnant
Grandia 2

>>715060608
they're both ugly as hell western abominations. japanese releases of dragon quest still use the same famicom UI from 80s

>>715048149 (OP)
Why do you make threads about a genre you don't like or will never like? I like fast-paced action games but sometimes I want a more low-key adventure where reaction times aren't as much of a factor

>>715080382
That and ff7 remake. at least the originals of those are still good unlike anything made by SHITLUS

>>715048149 (OP)
>another thinly veiled dragonspic thread
Go and discuss your shonen garbage in your containment general you fucking taconiggers
>>>/a/

>>715080568
>stuck to mediocre games in the first place
That's sad because most JRPGs that came afterward are much worse.

Go ahead and name better ones.
I'll wait.

>>715080639
Ff7 remakes gameplay is the least of its problems. I'd rather it be more faithful including combat but its gameplay is an evolution of .hack//g.u. which I liked.
It's pretty much everything else that makes ff7r a shit game

>>715080324
I also played it on pc very fun game

>>715080508
thank you, gamer-kun

>>715079696
Its a very common thing though. Happens all the time in Final Fantasy, Persona, Dragon Quest, etc.
No, the rare instances in Persona where bosses can be inflicted with an ailment don't outweigh all the times they can't, and it'd be disingenuous to say DQ doesn't do it just because the bosses typically have 15/16 resistance instead of a full immunity, because at that point it practically is full immunity. Similar to Persona though, yes DQ does have some bosses where it is feasible to hit them with ailments, but its not often.

The reason for this is pretty obvious though if you play old MegaTen. in MTII the final boss is the only one immune to the freeze ailment, so you can actually lockdown every boss in the entire game with bufu stones because bufu has a 100% chance to freeze. SMT has a similar issue with spamming zio to lockdown every boss with shock.
JRPGs need to make bosses fully immune because ailments are too broken, at best they let you get away with harmless stuff like DQXI's venom ailment which only deals a pitiful 55 damage per turn when bosses have several thousands of HP.

>>715080603
I thought all releases had the same menu? why the fuck would they change it?

>>715080579
>Square still didn't relist TLR original release or put the remake on Steam

>>715053921
Well, I mean I'm the same way but in reverse, I refuse to touch E33 and BG3 because they look fucking hideous to me, there's an air of faggotry to it, and the philosophy/realm of thought the developers possess does not mesh with my own. I'm more than content for them to move away into making their own shit and leaving eastern RPGs to thrive on their own quirks and merits, it's much better than the pathetic attempts the west usually makes at aping "JRPGs" or the wasteful attempts the Japanese make at appealing to an "international audience" by watering down or self-sabotaging their own works.

>>715080715
Much worse than what?
How is Grandia 2 supposedly so much better than something like Metal Max 2 R, Grand Knights History, Potato Flowers in Full Bloom or Emerald Beyond?
You clearly do not value RPGs much, you just want a generic anime JRPG that gives you the illusion of system depth but doesn't actually push you out of your comfort zone, you call everything slop while simultaneously admitting you don't even play games, you're the worst kind of pretentious poser there is.

>>715081061
>Final Fantasy, Persona, Dragon Quest, etc.
Notice how you can't name a jrpg other than these.

>>715053921
The entire plot and characters are anime nonsense with a western coat of paint
If the coat of paint was stopping people from playing JRPGs and they enjoyed E33 they are missing out on well over a hundred games they could be enjoying...

>>715048402
I am the only one who played picrel?

>>715081263
>its very common
>names the most common jrpgs as proof
>NOOOOO YOU FORGOT NI NO KUCKY, RISE OF THE SHIBOYKAN CAT BOY!

Fuck off weeb.

>>715081396
suck a bbc

>>715081350
I dont even like e33s coat of paint anyway. Enemies are bland and boring, so is alot of the world, the bloom is eggeiously bad. Going through that game gives me PTSD of the BROWN N BLOOM 360 era when devs had zero ability to make a good looking game.

>>715081396
>it's very common if you're a casualfag who only plays the most casual shit ever.
Imagine actually defending this behavior

>>715081513
Thats your fantasy.

>>715081263
Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia, Wild Arms and Grandia also have immune bosses.

>>715081362
>xbox360 jrpg
Yes. Nobody who got an xbawks did it for jrpgs.
Rip lost odyssey. Sometimes I even get nostalgic for infinite undiscovery.

>>715081618
>NOOOO STOP USING THE GENRE STANDARD THAT INFESTS MOST OF THE GENRE TO JUDGE IT BY! YOU NEED TO JUDGE THIS GENRE BY THE NICHE GAME THAT WAS NEVER TRANLSATED AND SOLD 500K COPIES SINCE ITS RELEASE IN 1994!

fuck off weeb.

>>715081698
suck a bbc

>>715081735
>weebs
>obsessed with BBC

Im shocked!

>>715081778
I know you are, but what am I?

Youre a cuck who deep throats black cocks if you play 4 niggas in a row games.

All 4 of them are lined up for your mouth.

>>715081826
I am rubber and you are glue.

>>715081861
please do not explain your mother's line of work

>>715081861
I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!!!!!

>>715081263
Notice how you can't name any at all

>>715068258
No Dr. Goldberg, you go back to the fields, and no, this time we won't let you buy them out.

>>715081362
I played the ps3 version

>>715068754
looks pretty good, yeah. its always fun when a gimmick build works out like that.

I'm trans

>>715068754
This a Dragon Quest fangame?

>>715073947
it's just the Hollow Knight fanbase finally discovering another new genre.

>>715075207
>X number of niggas
now i want to see a "niggas in a row" game where the number just keeps growing and growing as the game goes on, until your party is like 100 niggas all working together to beat some supergod or something.

>>715082507
We know e33bro, we know...

>>715082778
Is this the part where we pretend Super Metroid and SoTN are better than Hollow Knight, just because you said so?
Not because they play better, or have better characters or anything like that. Just because. "Indie game bad".

>>715079549
so even 20 years ago you hadn't found a new game you liked in the last 5 years?

>>715082932
>boss uses AoE
>all 70 of your frontliners die
brilliant

>>715081215
>admitting you don't even play games,
I never did that though. I still play JRPGs occasionally, but they are pretty much always dissapointing, because they are too afraid to leave their comfort zone and try an interesting combat system.

>>715083013
Yeah indie games are usually pretty bad

>>715083013
>Super Metroid
>SotN
>Hollow Knight

Monster Boy mogs all of them :)

>>715079869
that's exactly his point anon. nobody says Final Fight would be better if it had 15 second long blazblue combos.

>>715083143
That sentence is ESL word salad.
Can you rearrange it so it makes sense?

>>715081215
>Potato Flowers in Full Bloom
At least pick a game like Grimrock where it's possible to get lost or die

>>715082778
kek why are they like that though?

>>715083304
Nah it's perfectly understandable casual english. You might be ESL yourself if you can't read that

>>715083221
>Super Metroid - dude bomb every wall. Hope you're having fun
>SoTN - dude, the game is actually broken, lmao
Hollow Knight is a better game is every observable metric.

>>715081061
What are you talking about? Persona (and SMT in general) is all about debuffing bosses, the best spell in the game is usually Debilitate

>>715083472
Well are you asking about something 20 years ago or 5 years ago?
Make up your mind.

>>715082617
No, it's a VIPRPG which includes countless references to other games (mostly King's Field, but plenty of others as well)
https://vrpghonyakubu.neocities.org/enchantfarm/enchantfarm-main

>>715083476
nah Hollow Knight is nothing special and looks like a flash game. It's beyond pathetic it's compared to 30 year old games in the first place.

>>715083510
Status debuffs are not the same as status ailments.
FF and DQ also let you do status debuffs 100% of the time (slow, sap, blunt, etc)

>>715083231
>My reading comprehension failed me
Alright I will take the L on this one

>>715083624
It looks like a great Flash game.

>>715063558
>that DQ is intentionally a very basic and typical JRPG franchise.
People really say a lot instead of the obvious- it's shit. End of.

>>715083814
see this is why indie games are so pathetic that you can say shit like this

>>715049438
>japanese sovl
vs
>millenial UE5jeet writing
uuh ok?

>>715083316
>tile dancers
Grimrock is not even a jrpg nigger

>>715083814
Eh, it has good graphics for a flash game, but N was a flash game and it had way fucking better movement and physics.

>>715069085
Turn based sloppers fucking WISH they had access to so many techniques
>>715081061
The solution would easily be to introduce soulslike status resistance where you have to cast the aliment multiple times for the effect to stick

We just need more KINO combat systems like The Last Remnants instead of yawn-inducing press turn generic ones like Metaphor: Refantazio.

>>715069085
the shitposting value of this would go way up if you used Symphony of the Night's equip menus for this webm instead.

>>715081525
Lost of pretty places but can't deny that. And something I really noticed when making webms after is how hard they spam post processing effects. And you literally can not disable them. You are locked into dlss or the variants of it.

>>715054773
played grandia 2. is grandia 1s battle system just as good? the story in 2 was pretty cheesy but also funny so I liked it.

>>715084543
I've only played 1, but came away thinking the combat might as well have just been as standard as DQ as positioning and crits only mattered in like two fights in the whole game, one of them being optional.
So I would guess no.

>>715081117
because localizers thought it was too plain so they just had to made it prettier. it started with dq8. 7 for ps1 still had plain UI even for western release.

>>715084239
>The Last Remnant
>kino
More like dogshit

>>715084912
Skill issue.

>>715084812
>localizers even think they need to "spice up" the menus
man something really needs to be done about these idiots.

>>715084812
>Japanese version: menu opens up instantly
>Western version: menu has a fucking loading time attached to it

>>715084812
I like the menus we got in VIII and XI

>>715084912
There's nothing better than loving something other people can't understand.

>>715084912
games that arent polarizing have only managed to optimize boredom.

TLR original 360 release was famously misbalanced btw.

Big epic monster plus strategic anime magic = Tyrone is mazed

>>715062309
Because I like stories with lots of cool characters going through a journey with battles, skills, and level ups. No Adventure game or Animal Crossing does it like JRPGs.
I have tried playing Animal Crossing before, and it was so boring it made me fall asleep, which is not what I want to do.
I also play action rpgs and platformers, but not as commonly.
>>715068258
>Sleeping
I like that too but I feel like its a waste of my time and life, so I play games before going to sleep.
Also why would I just work and sleep? Sounds like a retarded idea only big nosed individuals would suggest to their cattle.

>>715084543
Yes, it is the same combat but different character progression
Using your magic / weapons is what gives you stat bonuses and spells, you can't just buy new spells with currency or swap mana eggs around
Plus it has 1 quite difficult optional dungeon and 2 less difficult ones

>>715048402
competitive pokemon

>>715086738
How many rpg players were on the 360? 12?

>>715049030
was that post meant for someone else because he didn't make any joke whatsoever.

>>715048149 (OP)
i hated how you got a really powerful serena during the second act but then her sister comes back and she goes back to being weak

>>715048402
Fallout 1 & 2

>>715084912
Holy shit 66 is too low, was the game really that bad?

>>715080192
JRPGs have diverse gameplay only because they are less of a genre and more of a design philosophy.
Compare, say, Tales and Dragon Quest - they are both JRPGs, even though their gameplay is completely different.
That's why some retards call Fire Emblem a JRPG series - because it indeed uses some parts of this philosophy, especially in later games.

>>715079281
The strategy is to grind levels
There is no strategy in them because you can't do anything beyond attack and heal

I've been playing FF7 and the game is ridiculously braindead, you spam multitarget elemental spells and kill everything in one turn

even Pokemon games have more challenge

>>715087393
Nowhere did i say that you should only work and sleep.

>>715080192
>JRPGs are the genre

Its not a genre

>>715078950
Based
L2 is super underrated

>>715084543
No its shit just like the first game, Grandia combat is poorly designed and its bad.

>>715089842
Only Grandia 2 is poorly designed. Mostly because Millenia's Spellbinding Eye is an auto-win and every character is better as a mage, even Ryudo
Grandia 1 is cool and has fun optional super bosses

>>715053921
E33 is anime as fuck. Every popular JRPG trope in the book is present in it.

>>715076617
>>715084008
Metaflop sold less in 1 year than E33 sold in 1 month.

>>715056059
A story not taking itself seriously doesn't mean it's "ironic", it just means it knows what it is and doesn't pretend to be anything deeper

>>715053120
VV is goyslop. Nocturne is way better.

>>715074481
This stereotype is completely untrue. Even if you just look at what's currently running in Shonen Jump, there's a lot of variety.

>>715089718
the biggest challenge in VII is enduring all the cutscenes and navigating the clunky overworld, the combat is a joke

I love RPGs, but trash mobs are clearly a flaw and just amount to busywork or farming sources.
What is the solution?
>Make all "trash" encounters into actual hard encounters unable to be cheesed, causing stress every step of the game
>Make trash encounters skippable or give the option to disable, making them completely optional
>Remove trash encounters altogether, the player only ever fights bosses and has to manage party growth exclusively from a set number of bosses in the game

>>715090882
>Make trash encounters skippable or give the option to disable, making them completely optional
most modern JRPGs have gone with this route by having the trash mobs be visible on the overworld, allowing the player to avoid them if they wish

>>715090717
>Nocturne
That game aged poorly.

niggas on a board has always been the superior style

>>715053921
I hate anime culture and I hate jrpgs, that game makes me wanna vomit as well, your point is entirely wrong

>>715091158
If that part of the game can and is usually skipped, what is the point of including it in the first place? We're not talking about side content here, random encounters are easily 50% of the entire JRPG experience

>>715072190
Probably the Baldurs Gate 3 crowd, or the same phenotype of retard who has to overhype their latest purchase to everyone around them who did as well to feel validated

>>715091491
does not work for random encounters - they would be a slog

>>715091583
it's usually for grinding purposes and to farm money/item drops

>>715091491
Repetitive slog: the video game

>>715091645
random encounters and trash mobs are fundamentally shit

>>715048149 (OP)
Turn based combat is wage slave training.

>>715048149 (OP)
I'm still upset at how they decided to port this game. The S version has a lot of extra content with added QOL features that are very, very nice to have BUT it's running on the worse engine with worse models. There's almost no way I could've put up with the original version's OST MIDIs either, they were awful quality wise. Basically you have to choose

>better lighting, higher fidelity models and textures
vs
>a switch port but it has more content

>>715091971
Not really
Not every game should be mission based with unique grid maps, sometimes you just want to relax and beat trash mobs with your overpowered party

>>715091973
real time with pause sucks

>>715091339
I just played it for the first time this year and it was excellent.

>>715089571
>That's why some retards call Fire Emblem a JRPG series
They can't be more wrong. Fire Emblem is a visual novel with dating sim elements

>>715092247
You can spend time modding the game on PC at least.
But yeah, its not quite the same.
I personally think the extra content is worth it since S has all the formerly untranslated 3DS content in it.

>>715090882
fucking dragon quest 1 solved the problem
>new area
>enemies are stronger than you or at your level, so you have to fight them.
>you figure them out as you fight. as you push on, new enemy formations appear, requiring you to adapt
>if you're close to losing or otherwise get stuck, you teleport back to town to procure new equipment (shops, find unlockable treasure chests, easier side dungeons)
>you keep this up until you're prepared and strong enough to reach the end and face the dungeon's boss
>after you win, the new area becomes a walk in the park as you've become strong enough instagib enemies
>if you'd rather not waste time (e.g. while backtracking), you can use holy water to keep enemies at bay. you're not missing much because weak enemies give you insignificant amounts of gold and exp
this was 30+ fucking years ago. why can't they get it right?
the only flaw was not having holy water auto-renew itself when it ran out

>>715048616
>JRPG
>use your brain

>>715089469
The MC was unlikeable and a moron, even if the rest of the setting was great.
The difficulty scaling was bad if you decided to grind you had to find a fine balance.
A lof of mechanics were trial and error or "study the wiki" material.
It also had some technical issues (mostly on console, but also on PC to a degree).

The gameplay, setting, story (if you ignore the MC) and music were still great though.
Flawed gem.

>>715091560
Anime is not a style or genre, it's not even a medium, it's just the Japanese word for cartoons.

>>715092765
do the PC mods change the lighting engine, models, and textures?

>>715092940
It's also the English word for anime, autistic retard.

I don't get why things from Japan are treated as their own genre by Westerners, we don't do this for any other country.

>>715092940
point stands I hate anything related to gooks culture whether it's traditional temples, colorful cartoons for children that hypes up adults somehow and their gay idol culture

>>715092563
you've never played a visual novel or a dating sim.

>>715093132
Its like a 5 or 6 part mod, but yes.
Look up project rebuild on Nexus mods

>>715093272
because microshite bribed journos to slam japanese games in an attempt to undermine japan's video game industry

>>715048149 (OP)
the target audience (hikkis) don't really care about mechanical gameplay and skill mastery
they just want a relaxing experience to escape from reality

>>715093212
No, the English word for "anime" is cartoon. Anime has no specific style. It's just as varied as western cartoons. Japs call Spongebob an anime. There is no western/eastern divide for cartoons. It's all just cartoons if you live in the West, and anime if you live in Japan.

>>715093338
I was actually just looking at that and assumed it was what you were talking about. Seems ok, I suppose. Maybe I'll do a replay with these installed. I think the hardest part will be fixing the lighting engine

>>715092531
>i have bad taste
yeah i know

>>715048149 (OP)
JRPGs are interactive story book adventures on rails. They're hardly games at all. Mario Brothers (any of them) is harder and a more challenging game than any JRPG ever made, most of which allow arbitrary grinding to nearly infinite power level.

>>715093272
Western CRPGs were autistic in their attempts to turn tabletop RPGs into games which simply doesn't work
JRPGs don't have that even if they originate from the same DnD campaigns
It makes sense to distinguish those 2

>>715093523
Probably as close as you're gonna get, unfortunately.
I played it on Switch when it came out in 2019 so the downgrade wasn't that noticeable to me.
But on PC in 1440p the cracks are extremely visible.

>>715093618
Counterpoint: Dark Souls is a JRPG and /v/ sucks that series's dick

>>715093543
consuming aside, how clean and vibrant the cities are in japan is truly shocking. Like when you come back to america it makes you genuinely ask if you live in a 3rd world shithole and why are things this way

>>715093543
i wonder if japan has its own demographic of blackpilled doomer chuds who seethe with resentment at hypercorporate japslop, the same way western chuds seethe at netflix shows and tiktok

>>715093731
Careful, calling Dark Souls what it is is gonna make Soulsfags angry

>>715048616
>Obviously the more minigames the better.
lmao no

>>715093731
You just opened a can of worms bro. /v/ will die before it admits action rpgs are also jrpgs.

>>715093543
The billboards in New York don't have cute anime girls on them

>>715093737
>it makes you genuinely ask if you live in a 3rd world shithole
It took you some time to realize this

>>715093731
It's an action RPG, or hack and slash.

>>715079010
Try playing games from before the 2010s.

>>715093272
because its a literal genre, the tropes, themes, and visual styles are distinct from western works.

>>715091491
>>715091673
This.
I get that it is the grandfather of the genre, but the gameplay is simplistic as fuck.

>>715093272
Weebtrash

>>715093737
>when you come back to america it makes you genuinely ask if you live in a 3rd world shithole and why are things this way
You don't have to go to Japan for that, Europe is enough.

>>715093737
The worst part about America compared to Japan is how none of the girls wear skirts. Ever. Also most of them are obese

>>715093397
you're wrong, and you know you're wrong too, so why are you trying to argue this? "Anime" has been the english term for japanese animation for about 30+ years now. It doesn't matter what japs call it, just like nobody cares that what japs call "Hamburger" is actually Salisbury steak. "Anime" is a loanword in english taken from japanese that doesn't have the same meaning as the original japanese, which is incredibly common with loanwords.

>>715095514
>because its a literal genre
>the tropes, themes, and visual styles

Since when a genre is defined by a visual style?
And what tropes are you talking about?
Define how JRPG is a genre and not a place of origin.
What features make a game JRPG?

>>715048402
https://youtu.be/n_1TsJTqb_c?t=65

Why do people like action games? Unless you're shooting things with guns, they suck. Hack and slashes suck so fucking much purely due to how unnatural it feels to swing a sword in those games. At least with guns it looks like a gun fight. You shoot at someone, and they shoot at you. But with sword? Well, you just get close to your enemy and swing your sword as fast as you can, which doesn't even remotely look like a real sword fight, and the vain attempts at implementing dodges and parries just makes it look even more unnatural.

>>715095514
No, it's not, in fact, anime is heavily inspired by western works

>>715095889
>what japs call "Hamburger" is actually Salisbury steak.
Anon, ハンバーグ and ハンバーガー are two distinctly separate words, not to mention that the former is not a "Salisbury steak" but is actually a true "Hamburg steak".
tl;dr you are an ignoramus.

>>715095970
It's not trying to emulate a real sword fight, it's trying to emulate sword fights as seen in movies

>>715095970
Mostly it's a game of timing, positioning, and learning whatever combos you can to get an edge.
It's also highly responsive gameplay, and it feels good when you press a button, and immediately the game responds, and you hit a guy.

>>715096216
Can you show me an example of one of these sword fights as seen in movies?

>>715048402
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dFTWr3CebA

>>715096253
>Mostly it's a game of timing, positioning, and learning whatever combos you can to get an edge.
I haven't played many, but Nier was literally just spamming the attack button and dodge button. Played the demo of Stellar Blade as well. Same shit. Just spam the attack button And, as for Dark Souls, all I did was awkwardly stand a bit away from the boss whilst waiting for an opening move. Nothing about it felt even remotely convincing.

At least FPS feels natural.

>>715096568
Yeah, Nier isn't a very good action game. Play DMC3.

>>715096673
Cool. I've been meaning to play them.

>>715089609
The strategy is to look up guides and find out that the toughest random encounter in a dungeon can be isntakilled 100% of the time with a certain spell it is weak to, allowing you to waste less hp and mp on it.

>>715091583
Random encounters are supposed to drain your resources. They pair well with one-way doors, mazes, damaging terrain ect.

>>715095947
>Since when a genre is defined by a visual style
since the beginning of visual media
>And what tropes are you talking about?
Japanese cultural tropes, particularly but not exclusively, from the otaku sub-genre of japanese culture
>Define how JRPG is a genre and not a place of origin.
i just did, but to elaborate, every culture has its own themes and styles that are prominent, and they shine through regardless of the topic of the story, authors fundamentally can't completely hide their own cultural biases and experiences when writing works
>What features make a game a JRPG
abstract power progression, classes, encounter style combat, character focused stories, stats

>>715055837
you've never played a jrpg in your life outside of the 4 worst games ever made, shut the fuck up

>>715059471
fatlus doesn't make rpgs, they make gay ass nigger visual novel dating sims masquerading as rpgs, don't assume shit about what i'm into, fat ugly nigger retard

>>715096181
lol, i knew you'd nitpick that rather than argue against the actual point i made. if you prefer i could've made the example "Bitch" or "Mansion" for english words japanese people use for a different meaning than english people do.

>>715060209
so you can hurr durr and make retarded hot takes about them and act like they're gotchas? kill yourself, howabout you actually play videogames instead, nigger

>>715084812
>>715085138
>>715085318
>localizers
It's Armor Project dumbfucks.
Most changes made to DQ in the west are done because Horii thinks it'll make the games successful outside Japan. That's why DQXI went from a NES game but in 3D in Japan, to a fully voice acted JRPG when it got localized.

>>715048402
Radiant historia

>>715049625
this but unironically. attack animations ruined the genre. go back to the style in Pokemon 1-3/FFI-V with quick animations and we're good

>>715095970
>you just get close to your enemy and swing your sword as fast as you can, which doesn't even remotely look like a real sword fight
Anon that's literally all there is to a swordfight. All that fancy shit you see in HEMA is the equivalent of Shaolin Kung Fu, just a show to attract audiences and hopefully money. There is no fancy technique that will save you if I put a piece of metal into your ribcage or skull before you have time to react, and if I get close enough, you will not have time to react.

>>715049625
good JRPGs have skippable animations

>>715048402
Panzer Dragoon Saga.

I don't understand playing a game at all if you want to skip the majority of it

>>715048149 (OP)
I liked Bravely Default's gimmick, even if the correct move 90% of the time was just to stock up BP and then dump it. Though really I'll take almost anything over fucking ATB gauges, so long as it's not too autistic.

>>715048149 (OP)
>Do people actually find it engaging to just navigate through menus?
Yes
And no, Atlus weakness system are not the solution, they get old fast. Dragon Quest is better.
Dilate.

>>715098603
so you're saying that Hori is trying to "localize" the games? huh, guess that makes him a retarded localizer.

>>715048149 (OP)
I like the idea behind them. They are much simpler more relaxing games that you play for the story, characters, music and cool epic set pieces. Without this though the genre would be quite bland or forgettable. Its similar to horror games imo in that it doesn't actually need amazing gameplay because the main appeal should come from the overall package here. Meanwhile a game like Doom couldn't get away with this since its primarily a shooting/gameplay focused kind of game.

With that said I think Pokemon has the best idea for turn based games. Shit should be about weaknesses and resistances and choosing particular attacks accordingly. So many games in this genre is simply pick the attack command since you are over leveled anyways and keep grinding.

>>715100876
Yes, that has always been the case since his greatest desire has always been Western success, going all the way back to the Western release of DQ1 being the FAR better version of the game.

>>715075140
Disgusting vid.
Core systems are exactly why well done?

>>715103332
>Explain a SaGa game in 2000 characters
Can't do that, play it yourself and find out