Thread 715150080

Finally someone with a brain saying that raytracing makes videogames better and is the future of gaming. We've been waiting on raytracing for the past 30 years. Imagine all the cool gameplay you can use raytracing for.

Wendell is a pretty smart guy but his channel has been going downhill for years. Not giving it a click, unsubscribed a long time ago.

GTX 1060 poorfags will disagree with you but its the truth. Once the next gen consoles are out everything is gonna have atleast RTGI. Can't wait to slurp these turd world tears.

>>715150234
OP here I'm using a 1070

>>715150326
I hope you some money saved up for the upgrade hermano

>>715150080 (OP)
Hell yeah bro I love grainy, blurry mirror reflections with Gay Tracing ON and not having any character reflections when it's off. This is the future.

>>715150373
I just haven't felt the need to upgrade but I might soon because RT is becoming the norm which is a good thing. I'm thinking of buying a 5070 Ti.

>>715150459
In the future you cannot turn them off.

>>715150080 (OP)
Nvidia pushed raytracing too early but it's clear that raytracing is superior to existing lighting systems when you have the power to run it. Which we are starting to slowly see.

>>715150080 (OP)
I can't be that mad about something automated that doesn't add any dev overhead. it might be bad but the thing killing games is needing 5 year dev cycles and hiring out a 1000 people to generate assets. it's a side problem if anything.

>>715150080 (OP)
>raytracing makes games better
Pure bullshit.
>raytracing makes game development better
Yeah, doing less work for the same-ish result is better.

>>715150080 (OP)
>is the future of gaming
I mean, I agree with this statement.
HOWEVER, ray tracing is not the present of gaming.

if having to sacrifice a few fps for these beautiful graphics then that's worth it

>>715150080 (OP)
Ray tracing is fucking gay

>games in the 2000s had working mirrors that didn't impact frame rate in the slightest
>games in 2025 require gaytracing that cuts your fps in half to have working mirrors
What went wrong?

>>715152808
Companies started getting diversity hires who lack both the skill and capacity to learn.

>>715152808
>games in the 2000s
>less polygons in the entire level than a modern game's protagonist character model
>stencil shadows or prebaked lighting vs fully dynamic time of day with ray traced global illumination shadows AO etc
It's incomparable. Just because a technique used to work within a given constraint of what was being used at the time doesn't mean that technique will scale out into new territory. I miss the shiny perfect mirrors of Splinter Cell, Deus Ex etc but they're not coming back until ray tracing can be done on every machine gaming out there. You can get pixel perfect ray traced reflections by the way. It's not even that expensive. On the contrary, pixel perfect reflections are a lot cheaper than blurry partial reflections from semiglossy surfaces.

>Just wait another 20 years and the tech will be as good as what we had 10 years ago
I can't wait.

>>715152808
>didn't impact frame rate in the slightest
They most certainly impact the frame rate but because they are restrict to small enclosed areas it doesn't matter.
I wonder if they went trough the trouble of faking flashlight reflections in Doom 3. Can you bounce the light through the mirror?

>>715153532
Now that I think about it there is nothing to even fake since the mirrored world is just like any other geometry it's not some screenspace effect.

>>715150695
even a 5090 can't run rtx properly without use of dlss
the whole thing is a scam

>Please buy a graphics card to make games look shittier I swear it totally looks different than the screenshots and "physically accurate lighting" totally ISN'T something developers have been fighting with since the 7th gen to make look good.
No

>>715152808
Competency crisis.

Isn't it weird that ray tracing and good gameplay is inverse to each other?

>>715154006
Firing everyone that knows what they are doing and replacing them with brown slaves isn't a competence issue.

>>715150080 (OP)
I think it is the future but I also think this half assed quarter resolution temporal jank shit that we have now isn't what anyone actually wants.
Give it another decade for the tech to actually reach viability.

be it gaytracing or any other modern rendering bullshit it has been diminishing returns for the last decade or so.
I don't give a shit if games look 100% like rl at some point, I want a realized, coherent artistic vision that doesn't suck ass
although I really don't care that much anymore, playing older games is more viable than ever now

>>715153190
Just FYI, you said “less polygons” but it is grammatically correct to say “fewer polygons”… you use “less” when you are referring to a non-discrete amount of something, such as water (i.e. I want less water in my glass for my next refill). You want to use “fewer” when referring things with a discrete count, such as the number of polygons used in a game. I hope this helps. Have a nice day.

>>715154316
Referring *to things. Ah crap. I really blew it. Shucks.

>>715151982
Step 1: Pretend the artefacts aren’t there.
Step 2: Praise leather jacket man when the next product generation supposedly fixes all the artefacts.
Step 3: back to Step 1

>>715150080 (OP)
>Imagine all the cool gameplay you can use raytracing for.
Name one

We've known for decades ray tracing is the way things were going to go. The issue is we are at the point where the visual leap isn't enormous due to (mostly) low sample size to not grind current cards to a halt. A lot more effort needs to be done on the software side and the hardware needs to keep getting better. Right now it is the wild west of the technology being used in real time but it is the future make no mistake.

It will be another few generations of hardware before RT will be performant enough that it is the baseline but we aren't quite there yet. Consider how powerful the 2080ti was for RT and now compare to how badly it gets murdered today.

>>715150080 (OP)
Sellout

Yes, we know that Westerners don't know how to make games.
>hmm... you're not happy with the gameplay? I know! How about we try simulating the physics of electromagnetic waves to make the image look more realistic? That will totally make the game better, right?

>>715155821
>It will be another few generations of hardware before RT will be performant enough
That's what they said with the 2080. We're on the 5080 now and it's still negligible visual gains for high performance loss.

>>715155360
I wish we had proper audio.
Horror games would benefit from that as well as shooters.
Yes, there is ray traced audio.

New AAA games have always been heavy to run and will always be heavy to run.

>>715154135
Good gameplay is inverse with quality of the graphics in general.
I bet there are exceptions but I can't think of any.

>>715156119
True but I felt than that was a naive view given the penetration of RT capable cards at the time. Now we've had four generations of Nvidia cards and 3 from AMD and while these aren't equal to each other we are at the point where mainstream cards can actually support it, even if it means there are caveats to using it (such as reliance on aggressive upscaling). If upcoming gpu generations continue to give good gains for RT acceleration we will be at the point where RT only makes sense, even if it means running it on low for your RTX 6060 or whatever (as opposed to turning it on (at low) and getting single digit fps at even 1080p).

>>715156221
Remember all that PS5 audio tech jargon Cerny was going on about? lol

>>715150080 (OP)
I think for some reason raytracing started pushing me towards liking older lighting techniques, but honestly i just prefer how games like Stalker or FEAR looked. I'm still stuck in the mentality that the whole stencil shadows thing was the best at creating atmosphere.

>>715150080 (OP)
>tanks performance for marginal improvements in *graphics*
No
Go fuck yourself

>>715156512
>muh tempest engine
Why does no one care about good audio in games?
It could work both for and against the player.
Imagine stealth games with AI finally reacting to sound like they should.
No more hive-mind.
One can dream.

>>715156254
Wrong and also those that were heavy to run 1-were graphical advancements that justified the use of high end hardware 2-didn't look like complete shit even on midrange hardware
Now AAAs barely look any better than what we had before RTX and run like shit unless you have some $2k high end card

>>715156254
>New AAA games have always been heavy to run and will always be heavy to run.
>GeForce GTX 1650 Super $159 release price in 2019
>game released in 2020
1440p 63FPS

>>715152808
>one mirror vs every surface is reflective

Four generations of RT and we still can't light fighting games, small enclosed maps with 2 characters usually, with them because they're that computationally expensive. It's an absurd premium increase on hardware for pathetic results.

>>715156221
>Yes, there is ray traced audio.
And there was back in the 90s technically. Until Creative killed it off that is. It may be a primitive form of wavetracing, but it's still better than 99% of the stuff i hear today. We went backwards on audio due to a lot of fuckery regarding a lawsuit in which Aureal as a company were murdered.

>>715156843
Nobody cares about good audio because people stopped plugging in their consoles to AV receivers or using good headphones. It is nothing but rattling 2W TV speakers or a turtle beach headset that sounds like you are in the mariana trench but hey, it has a mic!

>>715150080 (OP)
TAA is the true enemy of gaming fyi. If you want it as an option, fine, but I hate the trend where it's forced or it's the only option. Helldivers 2 comes to mind, you have 2 options: Smeared Mess or Jagged Outlines.

>>715157020
I mean there have been a lot of attempts to replicate this (Steam audio comes to mind) and I don't think they ever make it into a final product. Audio is one of those things where I think there aren't enough people that notice the difference to warrant the extra processing power.

>>715157020
>>715156221
>enable ray traced audio reflections
>battle royale city map
>shooting starts
>absolute cluster fuck

>>715157059
>Supports DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD
>Everyone uses a cheap soundbar
Every time

>>715156221
I remember being really impressed with the audio in the Dead Space remake and nobody else cared.

>>715157187
>(Steam audio comes to mind)
Yeah and the Steam Audio one is actually pretty good, not flawless but one of the better ones I've heard since A3D. And what you could expect from that means that it's heavy on the CPU since it's doing real calculations regarding reflections and whatnot.

>>715157020
>Creative
Fuck'em
I'm not audiophile or anything even close.
But I find things like footsteps reverberating in long corridors cool.
I disliked gameplay in Senua's Saga: Hellblade the first one I didn't even bother with sequel but audio in that game was very nice.

>>715156843
>>715157059
audio is secondary to visual
try only listening to women moan in porn with the video being a black screen

>>715157426
Dolby support is another animal given how difficult they make life for everyone.

graphics fags are still the bane of games

>>715157524
Even better as then said woman can be whatever my imagine makes her.

>>715156859
The fact that you use 5 year old game as "back then" is telling that you've got no clue. Go back enough and we didn't even have 1080p 60fps on the expensive cards. Bioshock Infinite. Crysis. Doom 3.

>>715150080 (OP)
Fuck ray tracing. Nobody cares about your shitty lighting engines. Do the lighting manually and make the game actually functional.

Explain to me why the visuals in this screenshot justify the level of performance on a 5090.

>>715157524
Awful audio in p0rn will kill my boner.
So there is that, at least I can disable it.

>>715157990
>New AAA games have always been heavy to run and will always be heavy to run.
One counterexample is enough to invalidate the claim and that's what I provided.

>>715158050
Yeah I remember thinking TLOU2 looks about on par with Alan Wake 2 (at least at a quick glance) and that game runs on a ps4.
You can't even use the open world excuse with Alan Wake 2 because it's not. The levels are about the same size as the ones in TLOU2.

>>715158050
Anal wake 2 looks quite good, but path tracing mode is just a joke.
I played that game mostly because how cool it looked, the gameplay is quite bad.

>>715150080 (OP)
truth is, path tracing itself isn't a gimmick. it's the endgame for lighting and the implementation is much more elegant and simple. the real problem is that it's been pushed on consumers for almost a decade yet the hardware *STILL* isn't ready.

>>715158142
I got 60 fps in fights on 970 in Eternal.
I get 100 fps in fights on 3070 in The Dark Ages.

Both cards are 5 years older than the game in question. Both are 70 series cards. The performance is better in the newer game.

>>715158224
>I played that game mostly because how cool it looked, the gameplay is quite bad.
>>715158034 graphicfags win again

rate my speccydoo bros

my gpu dominates my cpu, I game in 1440p

It isn't even worth considering using ray tracing unless it's path tracing. And we aren't there yet

>>715158401
>speccy
Do retards really?

if You think that certain graphics option makes GAME better, You are low IQ mouth-breathing troglodyte that does not even comprehend definition of a word GAME, with that being said i am back to playing Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu 1.5 Black Label

>>715158449
If SSR weren't absolute cancer I would agree.
But low resolution RT reflections look just as bad and they kill the performance.

>>715152808
those were screen space reflections, so no things out of sight are reflected, or in some cases just mirrored rendering, so the game would just render the game 2 times mirrored this had a incredible performance hit tough.

>>715152808
>2000’s
I just replayed Max Payne 3 (2012) and it had working mirrors.
>What went wrong?
Nvidia’s monopoly on computer graphics.

>>715150080 (OP)
Not if it lowers my fps significantly.

>>715160047
How did that monopoly happen? What happened to the other competitors?

>>715150080 (OP)
>Literal who youtube faggot
>gay tracing is good

>>715155360
>dynamic stealth based on lighting
>room lighting puzzles (darkness or color blending)
>Mirror puzzles without obvious light rays

>>715160624
So you will listen to Nvidia CEO because they're not a literal who then?

it would if it JUST WORKED
but it doesnt even on the high end gpus

>4k 240Hz monitor
No I will not play games at 40fps with upscaling and fake frames just so the shadows are a bit more realistic.
No I will not look at fake frames

>>715158142
>One counterexample
Pick a Xenoblade game. Monolithsoft understand the importance of optimizing.

>inb4 Nintendo AAA is different
Not really.

It really is galling that we're apparently expected to humor this "muh graphics" bullshit, when the entire point of video games is that they are an interactive medium. Decades of AAA propaganda have brainwashed people into sincerely believing that it's more important for games to look "good" instead actually working. Fuck that.

>>715158586
BASED

>>715160252
Nvidia simply lucked into being the default choice of OEMs because they always bought processors from Intel, and Intel did not want them buying anything from AMD outside of budget systems.
Nvidia realized that because of that, they could compromise graphical fidelity without a penalty from consumers, and then because of that 'feature' they could seriously undercut their competition posting similar 'performance' numbers with significantly worse hardware, hoping no one would notice the graphical quality loss. Which became easier over time as Nvidia's money shifted the narrative from "Nvidia is cheating" to "You don't care about visual quality anyway, Nvidia are innovative".

AMD tried to counter with RDNA which halved their compute power without seriously compromising raster game performance, but with that the features they had demoed to use GCN's extra compute power, like frame generation, post processing effects, and real time ray tracing went out the window. Which didn't seem like a big deal at the time because no developers had adopted them anyway.
Of course as soon as AMD did that, Nvidia introduced their own ray tracing, and post processing effects, and were able to get devs on board because of their greater market share.

I want RT to happen.
I want the upscaling and interpolated frame situation to get even worse.
I want Nvidia to double, no, triple their taxes while their drivers continue to get worse than AMD on Windows' worst.
I want to see aaaaall the industry jobs burn as I laugh at retards who bragged about offloading their work in realtime on customers at housefire wattages for inferior results and thought they could get away with it.
I want line to continue to go down.