>https://x.com/LyricWulf/status/1933215922719997971
is writing the hardest part of game development?

tl;dr

>>715239473 (OP)
thorbros, our response?

airing out your furry relationship drama because of the social climate making it okay to pile onto a certain guy is kinda cringe

>>715239896
good thing it's a video

>>715239473 (OP)
given the way he coded his dialogue system, with no boolean values, no hashmaps and relies purely on array indexes and switch/case statements?

It's probably some of the hardest things man will ever attempt

>>715239473 (OP)
If your game has a story, yes. That's why most indie games don't have one, or just some bare bones reason for doing the thing.

>>715240303
gamemaker doesn't support those. unhinged behavior. was it worth it?

>>715240303
In english, doc.

>>715240303
I love if he says none of those are possible, because I can look up documentation and see it is not only possible but encouraged.

>>715240805
Instead of writing sentences and phrases using words, spaces, and punctuation.

tardH3IZWR3TungLik4R[-1]

>>715240749
skill issue

>>715239473 (OP)
coding and writing a story are kinda hard on their own.
You may be talented, but if you don't plan carefully what's your game is about, then you will deliver a good pile of shit.
Same if you have the best story ever told, if you can't plan how it will be adapted in a game, then you are fucked beyond salvation.

>>715240136
tl;dw

>>715240303
Of course you'd think that. Low level intellects fail to recognize beauty of things they can't comprehend.
Those are obviously refined 7 years at Blizzard design patterns mixed in with Government confidential whitehat hacker algorithms.

Watch more Rick and Morty

>>715240303
>given the way he coded his dialogue system, with no boolean values, no hashmaps and relies purely on array indexes and switch/case statements?
so... he did the same thing as yandere dev?

>>715239473 (OP)
It's finishing it since he hasn't finished his own game yet.

>>715241410
Not exactly,
Yanderedev used booleans

>>715241553
Didn't he use strings?

>>715240749
Do you realize how fucking obvious it is, that you have no fucking idea what you're talking about and you're just repeating talking points that were fed to you?
His code is objectively horrendous. There's no way around it, that's not GameMaker's fault. He doesn't know how to calc even/odd value or move strings to an external file - it's grade school stuff.

>>715241810
From this meme image,
Condition 2 only works for booleans (assuming it works).

That said, credit where credit's due Yanderedev made literal spaghetti code with nested upon nested if statements. But I can grab some coffee and work with it and refactor it.

Thor's fucking 1000+ line by line array though. There's not enough money in the world for me to touch that. Good thing AI coding is becoming a thing to help him fix that shit he dug himself into

>>715241237

Honestly depends on the game for the tolerance level for bad coding. Like if you're making a indie game and at the very least it runs well enough and doesn't crash people's computers, you're probably fine even if your code isn't well optimized.
Toby Fox is infamous for having really shit code for Undertale but he was doing like 5 people's jobs by himself and was basically learning on the fly.
Some big budget game that has millions of dollars behind it though? No real excuse at that point to not at least make sure the game runs well decent hardware at time of development.

>>715239896
He's been repeatedly claiming that he's actively working on his game and that (part of it?) is "almost done", and then he suddenly comes out and says that he hasn't worked on it for the past year. So, in other words, he's lying about his development history

>>715242152

Honestly even with shit code, he probably wouldn't have gotten as much shit if he was more humble/honest about it, like "yeah I'm not that good of a programmer sorry" and didn't reject help from that publisher that offered to send him programmers to refactor his code.

>>715242152
I'm really curious about how GMS handles array initialization, and if Thor is actually growing the array as he's declaring his values. I'm guessing you start out by declaring the array length, but then wouldn't that also set every element to 0 by default? So best case scenario the array has a set size, but he still sets every value twice? It's such a bizarre approach I don't know how to approach it

>>715242212
that's not all folks!

This came out because he got accused of being a fakeDev recently, and he claimed that his game isn't abandoned since he has been updating monthly and all his haters would know this if they just checked the steam news section for his game. He is then threatening to sue people for defemation for saying those things

>>715242446
I love how he scrolls through the updates and they're either notices that the update is delayed or an april fool's joke. there are still people who support this guy and think he's being unfairly maligned

A reminder that bad code doesn't mean much if you
>Have a game that is playable
>It isn't crippled by bugs
>Hasn't taken years for it to be in a playable state
Toby Fox gets away with his code because the game is well liked and got out in a timely manner. Yandev is studied closely because of the shit performance and time it has taken. Oh and one more thing to add to the list
>Programmer doesn't claim they know what they are doing
Toby has fully admitted he is shit, meanwhile Mr. Figtree here keeps going on about his credentials which is why this latest wave of code reviews is coming in full swing. People are more willing to forgive an amateur that is making something, less so to a narcissist who claims he knows what he is doing.

>>715242612
I'm convinced that the reason all the code he shows on stream (not a lot, by the way) has a ton of comments, is because he prepared it ahead of time. The rest of his code is probably even worse, somehow. It's like cleaning out your desk for a video while your room still looks like the set of a bum fight

>>715242723
>On a scale of PirateSoftware to Toby Fox, how good of a developer are you?

>>715242723
normally I don't give a shit about code review stuff because every released game has dogshit code (there was seething over celeste having all player movement in one enormous class) but it is divine comedy that maldavius turns out to be a complete fraud

>>715243020
Terry A Davis

>>715243091
The car game is actually fun, yeah.

Saw a person actually review Heartbound, found out that combat encounters are really rare and the latest chapter only has two (2) of them...
See, this is what happens when you don't write a proper dialogue system.

>>715242723
Gamedev is riddled with bad code,
Recent AAA example is Sekiro having its entire physics engine and logic tied to its framerate.
Even FAANG codebases are infamous for techdebt.

However, no coder will die on a hill saying their shit code is good and claim the commenter has no idea what he's talking about when reviewing.
Also seriously....a dialogue system made up of arrays is such a horrible choice. Like wtf do you do if you want to add 3-4 extra lines in the middle of index50 and index51.... You redeclare? You jump to the end and make a note?

There's bad code,
There's bad code but devs have their reasons for doing it,
There's wrong code,
There's wrong code and the dev says 'you are inexperienced' for saying it's wrong,
THEN there's wrong code and the dev says 'you are inexperienced' for saying it's wrong, all while claiming they're a code genius while running a business teaching others how to code.

>>715243091
fork TempleOS and make it x86 compatible you coward

>>715243531
What's funny is that structs are on the official documentation for GMS 2 which is perfect for dialogue systems.
Even beyond that though, some of his conditionals for dialogue seem odd, weird and arbitrary.

>>715241237
But he worked for bizzard for 7 years and has 20 years of industry experience. Surely making a pixel game in a premade engine should be childs play for someone of his high pedigree.

>>715243531
wtf he has a coding course?

Jason apparently previously used his "hope it was worth it" line against the gay furry he was manipulating.

is there anyone who couldn't tell he was a gay furry just by looking at him

>>715243871
I haven't delved too deep into the Maldavius Figtree stuff because furry stuff isn't my type of thing to read due to second hand cringe, how deep does the proverbial ferret hole go?

game maker has enums and hash tables, i don't know why he wants to suffer with his array monstrosity

>>715243842
Not a course, but he runs a gamejam and critique people's shit
Funny enough, it starts next week
https://itch.io/jam/pirate

>>715243958
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWoxDoDn44I

This video delves into it for about 20 minutes, but essentially, he was manipulating an controlling towards a 20 year old college student he was ERPing with. Said college student doing $800+ single donations to his stream back when he was a Literally Who streamer. He didn't like the guy ERPing with anyone else, and demanded he always check in on him when he was online. All while Jason literally was married and had a wife.

The dude is fucked in the head.

>>715243871
do you think his abusive parent(s) used this line against him?

>>715244069
what i want to know is how these people get an audience in the first place

>>715244123
In Pirate's case: Manipulating the shorts algorithm to take snippets of streams where it *seems* like he knows what he is talking about.

>>715244123
my guess is part of it is lying through his teeth about credentials and the other half is having art assets. the average person will think any mockup is a playable game

>>715244123
He was a literal who until last year or so when the algorithm blessed him and his shorts got recommended to everyone who likes games.

From there he preaches and acts like he knows what he's talking (7 years working for Blizzard making iconic games, and was a literal Hacker working for the government) so people stayed. This was during the internet's "learn how to code" era too

>>715241410
Difference is, he brags about his experience in the game industry working at blizzard and how he hacks for the government, while yanderedev is a nobody with zero experience in game making

Does this sound right on doing a proper dialogue system for a choice based RPG?
>Have a function (Or set of functions) that handles the display and lines to be called (For whatever dialogue type is being called at the moment). This is so when dialogue does occur you only need to call the respective function and pass in whatever flags required to display shit
>The dialogue itself is saved as structs that can save several value types that are needed for the dialogue
>The script for the dialogue itself is handled by an external file so that you would only need to edit the one file if changes are needed then make it easier for translation to occur by having all of the "script" be different files in different languages that then gets referenced by the dialogue system based on the user choice of language
Am I getting this right?

Is everyone coder now? How could everyone so easily understand any code which is posted here?

>>715242887

Added benefit of the comments is the diluting of how much code he has to show on screen. Sad

>>715242359
But he couldn't read the refactored code

>>715244406
Sample bias,
You're in 4chan. Home of the famous hacker Anonymous.
Fun fact: Thor also claims to have worn the Anonymous moniker

>>715242152
Wouldn't Enums and EnumSets be far better for that stuff?

>>715244406
At least this is more competent than the discussions around yansim which is usually "lol if else statements" rather than the actual architectural problem with the code and the shit performance due to little to no optimization of assets.

>>715243531
>Recent AAA example is Sekiro having its entire physics engine and logic tied to its framerate.
Frame dependent games are based tho. Fuck delta time

>>715244123

What I want to know is how this guy gets a WIFE in the first place.

>>715244510
Yandev used C#, everything is an Object in C# so enums would be a downgrade.

>>715244582
If it makes you feel any better, she is a ftm and has been for years.

>>715244452
>"Guys, I wrote almost 500 lines of code yesterday"
>200 lines of comments
>200 blank rows
>50 lines of array initialization

>>715244406
You can ask ChatGPT to explain it for you

>>715244630
C# is inspired by Java, and in Java enum sets are comparable to using an int for bit flags. There's no way string comparisons are somehow more efficient than using enums in C#

>>715244687

That actually does make me feel better.

>>715239896
this sums up everything about this

who is this guy? why do people care so much?

>>715239473 (OP)
Try writing yourself and you'll see that it is.

>>715244841

Anon, let me give you some advice. People like drama. It's soap opera. You shouldn't be surprised by this. This isn't the first and won't be the last. If you don't enjoy the drama and conversation, best bet is to hide and move on. Drama is fun. It's fun seeing a fucking dick wad get shit on. It'll fade away and something new will come along. And you'll still be asking that same stupid question.

>>715244841
4chan is a form of social media. People come here to socialize. This is a current topic to talk about. That's all there is to it

>>715240303
> no boolean values
This criticism feels a bit forced to be honest.

>>715244924
>>715244937
got to be better drama out there

>>715244974

I'm sure you've partaken in a thread where you saw a post from someone just like you. It's all subjective, and plenty of people have an interest in this. As the anon below me said, that's all there is to it.

>>715244968
Maybe, maybe not. It's one of those things that it gets overly critical due to the way he goes on and on about his experience and how good of a developer he is.

>>715244402
You're kinda getting it
Honestly exact implementations will mostly depend on what language or engine you're using.
However the basics are
>Have a Dialogue Class that handles displaying and render
>Have a Line Class that holds the sentence and who or what is saying it
>A coupling that translates a plain English text file to Line Objects
>An instantiation function to arrange Line Objects in the proper order
>Connect that shit so the Dialogue Object will go through the Line Objects in the right order and modify game states as necessary
This is just one of the common design patterns. There's many with different pros and cons (is: Functional programming or Lambda first)

>>715244402
there are off-the-shelf tools for composing dialogue trees like yarn. the best advice I can give is to look into how they store/serialize dialogue. as a general rule of thumb, you want your game content to be as close to pure data as possible. also keep localization in mind

>>715240303
Didn't Toby just use a giant switch statement for Undertale's dialogue?

>>715245089
>>715245128
I see, thanks for the right direction.

>>715244920
>"Try writing yourself and you'll see that it is," he said, a smug smile on his face as he leaned back in his overly-expensive gamer chair, a purchase that he long ago gave up trying to rationalize to himself. He looked up on the seven other 4chan tabs he had open, but none of them showed the little red icon that indicated he had received a response. His smile faltered for a second. He looked down to the Steam icon on his taskbar, wondering for a moment if he should boot up any of the 14 games he currently has installed and had played an hour or two of before moving on to something else. The thought of having to remember how to play the games and what had happened in the story so far gave him light anxiety. Instead he went back to the catalog, prowling for a new thread to shit up

>>715245201
IT'S OVER
HE'S OVER
HE'S DONE
HE'S FINISHED
THERE'S MORE

>>715244770
Oh sorry, I wasn't implying that at all.
I thought the enum suggestion were to hold the strings. Yandev has them as properties which, though costly, is workable and there's lite benefit for using enums to hold them instead.

>>715244630
C# includes Enums and they are far better for that situation than Strings. And at least in Java, comparing Strings with == leads to unexpected behaviour.

>>715245187

is ai a better coder than thor?

>>715245159
Toby didn't claim to be a gamedev from a AAA studio with 7+ years of experience

>>715244968
It is and it isn't. Using truthy/falsey is honestly acceptable but Thor's usecase was literally using 1/0 instead of true/fase.

>>715245172
>>715245128
also I would take any OOP-based advice with a grain of salt. a class hierarchy has nothing to do with the actual functionality of a program. focus on the data model first and the code structure will come naturally

>>715245263
I think you're talking about something completely different.

>>715245409
True, but then I don't think anyone with any actual coding experience would choose GameMaker in the first place

>>715239473 (OP)
lol

>>715239896
More or less he spends a year 2024 saying "I'm almost finished making Animus (I think it is an area of his game), once it's done I only have to do this other thing which will take 3 months, so the game will release this year"
Then every month he says "I'm almost done with Animus, I've made all the writing already"
Finally now he says "people are review bombing the game and is kind of justified because I haven't worked on it for a year"
If you look at the steam updates section of the game you can see him posting about nothing every month.
He's been on version 1.0.9.x since 2020 which also is not how versions work, you only use 2 dots.
Cherry on top: his last update says "Animus is being worked on"

https://pastebin.com/yRWnNaZ3
rate my blackjack discord bot code
i have no idea what i am doing but it just werks

>>715239473 (OP)
>Almost 10 years working on an Undertale clone in Game Maker
>The only code he's ever shown during his development streams is 4 screenshots worth
How the fuck did this guy get so popular as a streamer again?

>>715245636
how does the gigahacker fuck up semver this bad

>>715245743
What I can't get over is that it is an undertale clone without many combat encounters. How do you fuck up that badly?

>>715245743
he obviously viewbots most of his popularity came from pushing out 1000 shitty youtube shorts

>>715245268
>>715245567
Ah! Okay I understand my mistake. The Enum suggestions are to make the chained if statements work.

I was under the impression that if we were to design an ideal implementation. Which to me, we would add a function in Witness (C# everything is an object) that will return a reference to the proper game state

```
this.Witnessed.getResults()
getResults() -> GameOutcomes
```
Gomen, yes, if we want to keep the if statements, making Witness an enum would work best

>>715244123
he's a generic psychopath, they're really good at manipulating weaker / impressionable people.
In his case, he LARPs as overly composed and rational to project a sense of authority and implicit superiority, which a lot of previously mentioned types are drawn to.
The weakness of most psychopaths, is they all tend to follow the same script and techniques, so they're really easy to spot once you know. Especially the ones who've never had to deal with much in life, so they don't do well with hostility.

>See a short of this guy like five years ago
>Immediately pick up on him being an egotistical sociopath from the 10s of speaking he does and completely ignore his online presence
>5 years later
>Everyone pretends to be in my camp despite sucking his dick the week before SKG
I fucking hate retarded normalfag cattle so much.

>>715245527
>>715245089 (me)
I'm sorry but that's horrible advice for a beginner.
I agree with data model first, but structure is critical for writing clean and maintainable code especially for someone who can get lost in the weeds of implantation. There's a reason OOP is still the default mindset being taught when people first learn how to code.

Ignoring any framework on how to structure codebases is a good way to get lost

>>715240303
done is better than perfect

>>715245476
Only nocoders care about that. Any software developer knows that >=1 == true and 0 == false and will understand what's being done when they see those comparisons. C didn't even support true/false keywords as part of language spec (you had to include a macro from stdlib for that) until the C23 standard came out. It's really just syntactic sugar.

>>715245527
>>715246350
Original anon who asked the question here:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not new to coding in general, just that my coding has been based around data analysis and small C programs dealing with file systems, I was just asking because I never thought about this type of stuff before for dialogue and dialogue options for vidya.

>>715246394
>if (question_asked == 0)
Pop quiz, is this a flag to verify if a specific question was asked, or a check count that no questions have been asked.
This was from the Thor code btw

why is everyone getting angry about code readability?
like you still actually read your code? just have an llm do that wtf

>>715246791
That's more of a problem with variable naming than the use of true/false keywords though.

>>715240303
People shitting in his code post better solutions

>>715246867
That's fair, both better naming or using booleans could solve Thor's issue.
The problem is there's a 7+ years Blizzard Employee who didn't do either

>>715246791
>>715246867
Sorry, forgot to reply to the quiz part, but it's clearly checking if a specific questing has been asked or not.
The latter case would be questions_asked.

>>715243871
hehe

>>715246867
Variable naming won't catch errors precompilation.
Booleans became a thing because people were accidentally incrementing 1s thinking they're 0s
If you only have 2 states, use something that only has 2 states.

>>715246945
Yeah I'm not trying to argue that he's a good programmer or whatever. It's that I just find this weird nitpicking of things that don't matter much by people who don't really know the subject matter that well themselves kinda pointless. You could probably excuse some of his shit with "he just needs to ship a game" kind of excuse, but he's not even doing that so fuck him.

>>715247157
>>715246853
Because it's easy to say someone's code is shit by glancing at it for 5 seconds, it's hard to say a game is shit without actually playing it first.

>>715246853
zoomers and vibe koders will prototype and then pay an actual programmer to clean it up for them (who may or not also just be a scamming vibe-koder)
This entire mess is a very good argument for why you have to gatekeep things properly.
Sometimes i even think it was mass-orchestrated by cyber-security firms, just so their industry can get revitalized.

>>715247140
You do realize that bool doesn't need to have true/false keywords for values? Again as an example, before C23 C had _Bool which accepted 1/0, and that you had to load a macro for if you wanted true/false.
Now I haven't seen all of his code, but I would hope that he was using the bool data type there. If there's proof that he didn't then yeah, that's dumb.

>>715247249
>zoomers and vibe koders will prototype and then pay an actual programmer to clean it up for them
not really
have you used the new llm tools?
claude code and gemini cli are amazing

I offered my entire ass but you didn't eat it.
Hope it was worth it.

>>715247287
>not really
i'd post links, but you'll just call it cherry-picking. Vibe-koders fundamentally can't maintain a project once it gets elaborate enough, because LLMemes will start choking on valid extensions.
And any networked LLMeme project is going to have insane security flaws.

>>715247270
gamemaker's scripting language doesn't have a bool primitive and uses truthy integers like C. pirate uses 0 and 1 everywhere instead of the built-in aliases true and false, which gamemaker documentation explicitly recommends in case they ever add a bool primitive

>>715247392
>Vibe-koders fundamentally can't maintain a project once it gets elaborate enough, because LLMemes will start choking on valid extensions.
they can now, they can search and backtrack interactions etc.
i just point gemini cli at a file, it checks it then traces it all the way back to the main app.
with a million context it handles it fine

https://github.com/google-gemini/gemini-cli

>>715247270
>I would hope that he was using the bool data type there
That's the flag. GameMaker doesn't have static typing, you can assign any value to any variable. They recommend using true/false so you know something is a boolean

>>715247641
that's fun, i'd like to see a practical example of it though.
Maybe using it to improve the Linux kernel or something

>>715247476
highlights include:
- manually setting every element of the game progression flag array to 0 without a for-loop
- fiery indignation at the suggestion he use true and false and an insistence that they don't exist
- claim that only developers experienced in gamemaker are qualified to review his code

>>715247743
i haven't seen how many lines the linux kernel is, but i assume its insane amount, i don't think they are ready for that yet. maybe at 5mil or 10mil context
last time i checked my bot i was at like 30k lines and still having no problems

>>715247832
>bot i was at like 30k lines
bot for what? discord?

>>715239473 (OP)
>writing for the animus(?) going from almost done, to 100% done, back to almost being done, to not having worked on the game for a year
Absolute liar kino.

>>715247865
>discord
yeah, just made a little idle game and a bunch of minigames my friends wanted

animus bros... we fucking lost...