choose life guys

>>715247359 (OP)
The life of my family? Yes.

>>715247359 (OP)
buy an ad holy shit

>>715247359 (OP)
>choose life
>posts picture of character who chooses death

>>715247359 (OP)
>studio makes a divisive endings to bait discussion beyond the game's natural lifespan
>/v/ falls for it hook line and sinker
everytime

>>715247581
are they that divisive?
i beat the game two nights ago and i can't see a good argument for the verso ending

>>715247776
you have to be baiting

>>715247359 (OP)
you have to be unironically retarded to believe this ending is good

>>715247776
Unfortunately, /v/ is filled with Versofags that do their best to justify canvas genocide.

>>715247897
im saying the opposite

>>715247980
learn to deal with grief nigga

>>715247776
Both endings have their huge drawbacks. Verso just wants to die not be a huge bait for his demented mother. He is a litersl doomer. Maelle sees the good sides of the canvas and appreciates the people and creatures that live in there.
Either way, both endings are also half assed solutions. If the canvas is gone, then the family should have an easier time to heal but what is stopping the mom from creating a new one and fucking up her brains again?
Similarly, saving the canvas and everyone in it might work once, but Renoir could just try again to kill everything, the sister couls get involved and fuck up everything, or Maelle just also slips into dementia.

>>715247502
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE STOP TALKING ABOUT GAMES
Leave

>>715247359 (OP)
Didn't anyone ever tell you that liars go to hell, Verso?

>>715247359 (OP)
Nah. I want Verso to have sacrificed himself to save Alicia only for her to waste away in a fantasy world of her own creation, and I want her to die knowing this is the life her brother died for.

Play the piano boy

>>715248418
based writerCHAD

>tfw the grief-stricken teenage girl that you've been manipulating doesn't help you commit suicide

>>715247776
>>715247581
It's not a divisive ending, it's a "test" ending. Same as other games before it like Nier Automata. The "choice" you get is basically 'did you pay attention to the story and know what to do, or were you not paying attention and just want a cookie?'

In Nier, only retards would delete their save, as the whole story is about following convenient lies to horrific ends, and the scenario offered at the end where you would delete your save is an obvious lie to get you to do the thing you had just prevented from happening.

In Expedition 33 the whole damn game is about dealing with loss, dealing with death, and most importantly it's about moving on. If you paid any attention you'd realise quite quickly that Alicia is not Maelle, that the prospect of recreating Lumiere and the people within it is a convenient lie, but if you didn't pay attention you get to live on with the fantasy that all is well, all deaths and loss are magically reverted, but it's very plainly a lie.

There exist a million copes for both Nier and Expedition 33, I find it hilarious when retards try to argue nonsense like 'they aren't really alive' when narratively, it's impossible to argue that they're not.

>>715248143
Maelle doesn't exist anymore since act 3, anon. Pay proper attention.
>Maelle sees
Alicia doesn't give a fuck about the canvas or the people within it. She never knew them and she deletes everything in her way just as the other Desendres were doing, including her own copy. Her cope of it being 'her choice' is obviously hollow when she then creates a new copy of Verso despite him definitely not wanting to continue on.
>What is stopping the mom...
This is such a dumb fucking complaint. It's like looking at the end of FF6 and asking "what's stopping the next big villain from taking over the world bruhhhhh" I imagine you must be quite young to have such juvenile takes on media.

>>715248143
>but what is stopping the mom from creating a new one
i don't think the mom would bother anymore, what made the canvas so powerful and alluring more than any other canvas was because a part of Verso's soul was in it as was all his creations, with that gone there is no point, any recreation would be souless, that's what made the canvas so damaging to begin with, it was Verso in a sense, they weren't letting go of him

Astroturfed game.

>>715247359 (OP)
1000 YEARS IN THE PIANO MINES

>>715248683
so the good ending is genocide?

>>715249207
For E33, everyone is dead at the start of Act 3. They already died in act 2. Thinking you can bring them back is just a desperate coping mechanism, E33 is pretty clever in that it isn't just about the characters grieving but you the player must also deal with the actual loss of everything the expedition was fighting for, the fact that you ultimately failed your initial goal, that basically everyone in the story so far has died.

>>715249369
but i don't want to let go

>>715249509
Then enjoy the fantasy, I suppose.

>>715247776
I don't see how it's possible to view Maelle's ending as "good".
The moment she realises she is a paintress, a god complex begins to develop. You could see it in the scene she gommages Alicia, the camera looks up at her while she is completely uncaring while Verso holds Alicia in his arms.
And then the ending, how do you not choose Verso, a mere painted copy, willing to stand up against a goddess who would keep him alive against his will like a puppet.

>>715247776
What's it like to be a retarded orbiter waifufag?

>>715247776
theres no good argument for not picking the maelle ending

>>715247776
>>715249979
*verso ending

>>715249979
Seeing Alicia smile? Ending the cycle of abuse? Giving cloaure to the Dessendre family?

>>715249876
>I don't see how it's possible to view Maelle's ending as "good"
A whole world of sentient beings has been brought back from oblivion and has a future now.
>but they're not the same people or they're all puppets being controlled by Maelle
There's no evidence to support that.

>>715247359 (OP)
I hated what the act III twist did to the preceding story and world. I say this as someone who loved the game as a whole and I even appreciate the avenue the story went down. I just hate that it throws all the intriguing lore and world-building up until that point under the bus. Lumiere, the gestrals, the expeditions, the nevrons. It hits you over the head with the idea that none of this is of any significance. The inhabitants of the continent felt like empty vessels after that and the world just a simulacrum of Verso's soul.

For those who might argue that I'm interpreting the twist incorrectly, that The Continent and its inhabitants are just as real as before, I agree. To my mind they are real people inhabiting a real world created by the god-like painters. But you absolutely cannot argue that they are just as important.

Take the reality question out of it.. Imagine The Continent as a physical place that inhabits the same world the painters do. Let's say Maelle is somehow separated from her family and grows up and lives a life in Lumiere, making real connections, friends, and family. You could even imagine by some quirk of magic that she lived a life with the Dessendres before she got separated and forgot. Imagine now your father comes along and genocides the entire continent in a bid to have you return to your natural family. Is there any reality at all in which you are even remotely sympathetic to his plight? None at all.

There is no conflict or ambiguity there. He's an evil fucking psychopath you have no reason not to hate. You don't want to see, hear, or speak to that fucker ever again. You want him to burn in hell. So, the fact that the game does pose this as a legitimate dilemma, sends a very clear message, that The Continent, Lumiere, and their inhabitants are ultimately insignificant, given that their lives and the existence of their entire universe can even be weighed up against the lives of a single French family.

>>715249207
Yes, watch both endings and compare which has happy loving smiling people

>>715247359 (OP)
You killed your family nigger.

>>715250049
i mispoke, i meant to write verso

>>715250269
You are forgiven

>>715250162
for all you know we could all be paintings in the eyes of gods, to me personally i don't think it made it that much easier to destroy the canvas

>everyone who plays through the game loves lune and sciel and the rest of the cast who have repeatedly expressed a desire to live a normal life and be happy
>ending choice comes and suddenly it's like they don't exist because fagboy doesn't want to play the piano
Why

>>715250089
>they have been brought back
How? Everything established about the way the world works makes it clear that it would be entirely impossible
>W-well she brought Lune and Sciel back
No. She created a new version of them. Pay close attention to what Verso tells her in the cutscene where she recreates them
>B-but then how do they know things only Lune and Sciel would know?!
Because they are still a platonic version of Lune and Sciel, same way the copied Desendre family has memories of events and lives lived that Aline couldn't have known about, the fact that they ARE those characters means they HAVE those memories, but as stated in multiple ways with Verso: "You are Verso, but not"

Alicia cannot recreate Lumiere. She can only recreate her version of it. A new painting.
>There is no evidence to support that
Beside the entire game up to that point, you mean? Did you think the White Nevrons were just some cutesy sidequest with no narrative meaning?

it's really depressing knowing this 50 dollar game was the first game from a studio made up of less than 100 people.

imagine peaking so early in your career

Renoir, Clea and pVerso did nothing wrong
Moral of the story is most women are horrible selfish idiots

>>715250162
>you can't argue they aren't as important
Try me. Why would you even think they aren't? Are you some sort of religious nutjob that would argue that a creation cannot be as important as its creator?

>>715250418
>Wow, why did they make me care about these characters so that I then have to mourn their loss?
Hmmm, I wonder if that has something to do with the whole theme of the story. Nah, couldn't be, I am very smart and would have figured that out already if it did! I'm such a smartypants!

>>715250418
fagboy doesn't want to see his family die a slow death by cope because they can't fucking accept and move on.

the irony is that Lune and Sciel are sorta okay with dying because in the end that was what they were always prepared to do, end of the day they are all part of Verso anyways so fuck off, also Verso already came inside Lune's pussy so what else is there

>>715248143
>Verso just wants to die
He could have had that once Maelle had taken control of the canvas if he just asked to have his immortality taken away and then snuck off to kill himself. For attempting to take everyone and everything out with him he is rightly punished by having to perform on demand for eternity.

>>715247359 (OP)
I will choose whatever makes me feel like life is worth living.

>>715248683
>all deaths and loss are magically reverted, but it's very plainly a lie
Except it literally happened and we saw it happen at the start of Act 3 when Maelle revived Sciel and Lune
>>715249369
Except it literally happened and we saw it happen at the start of Act 3 when Maelle revived Sciel and Lune

See, >>715247776 ?
I told you. I told you Versofags do the best they can to try to justify canvas genocide.

>>715250460
the studio might as well pack it up, they will be chasing their own shadow for the rest of their lives

>>715250162
Anon, if I find out I'm inside a painting, I'm not gonna go "Wow, I'm worthless, go ahead and kill all of us, I guess!"
You're a cuck if you think like that.

>>715247359 (OP)
Mid game
Mentally ill fanbase

>>715250162
>Idiots getting upset and saying nothing mattered whenever a story is about fiction within fiction
everytime lmao

>>715250480
It's funny, I was initially kind of bothered by painted Renoir talking to Maelle about not explaining things, about how she'd come to understand, as usually that's just deflection and nonsense that doesn't get a good payoff.

Nope, it makes perfect sense, and painted Renoir is legitimately one of the most heroic figures in the story. A tragic hero, being made to do terrible things to save those he cares about, knowing that if the expedition succeeds they would all die.

Normal Renoir is the true villain of the story. A god casually destroying thousands if not millions of lives just because he cannot let go of his wife.

i hope this faggot is grateful for painted Verso after everything

>>715250797
>Nope, it makes perfect sense
It doesn't, though. Why did Renoir go around killing expeditions instead of telling them about the real threat hidden below? Why didn't he tell the party that Verso was full of shit and literally compelling them to genocide themselves any of the three times he met them?

>>715250509
My point is not that they aren't and I perhaps worded that incorrectly. My point is that the plot dramatically shigts focus to tell you that they aren't. The fact that the plot pretends there is any dilemma whatsoever, or that Maelle could have even a sliver of good will toward Renoir or Verso after what they did, paints this picture. My analogy, where The Continent is not a painting but a real physical place, proves this.

>>715250509
Is a prized dog breed as important as its owner/breeder?

>>715250601
Aline was the only one at risk of dying by cope. Renoir was staying for as long as it took to kick everyone else out, Clea was busy outside and Alicia was only adamant about staying in because as soon as she leaves Renoir will go back on his word and destroy it. As long as she can trust that the canvas will still exist then Alicia would be able to come and go just enough to not lose herself and die, the possibility of the very genocide that Verso wants is what's causing her to kill herself.

>>715250797
you realize when that number gets to a certain point it's gonna be just kids taking care of one generation of infants and that will be the end of the world, what an awful cope

Why didn't they just agree to lock the canvas away and visit on weekends or something.

>>715250868
He and Verso did and it led to pAlicia getting captured and horribly tortured by an expedition. Verso also got betrayed by the chick he loved.

>>715250858
he probably is but it was as expected.
Painted or not, Verso will always give his life for his sister

>>715250601
The face of someone who is okay with dying because fagboy didn't want to play the piano

>>715250892
>My point is that the plot dramatically shigts focus to tell you that they aren't
Does it, though? You're still interacting with Sciel and Lune, and hell, Verso, who is a literal contradiction in that he acts for "real" interests while being "fake". You're still interacting with Monoco and Esquie.

The plot does shift its focus a lot and become about Alicia, Verso and the Dessendre family drama, but it's on you if you let that overtake the fact that this is also about the people from the prologue that all got gommaged at the end of Act 2.

>>715250892
Maelle dies at the end of Act 2. Alicia is not Maelle.

>>715250978
>Why didn't they just agree to lock the canvas away and visit on weekends or something.

>>715250585
Anon, coming to terms with the loss of someone is something that doesn't make sense when you don't have a choice to either kill them or not kill them lol.

You can cope with their loss if you kill them for some retarded reason. I just won't kill them, though.

>>715250943
>Alicia was only adamant about staying in because as soon as she leaves Renoir will go back on his word and destroy it. As long as she can trust that the canvas will still exist then Alicia would be able to come and go just enough to not lose herself and die

LMAO you actually believed that junkie bullshit

>>715250978
Aline can't be trusted.
Alicia says that they already hid the canvas so she can't go back in and then in the final boss battle she does exactly that which with the time dilation means she basically stood up in the real world and immediately walked directly to the hiding place to re-enter.

>>715250943
>Alicia was only adamant about staying in because as soon as she leaves Renoir will go back on his word and destroy it.
That was entirely cope. She doesnt actually believe Renoir would go back on his word. She just doesnt want to leave and go back to what she considered a shitty life

>>715250978
>

>>715251064
kek

>>715250868
>Why did Renoir go around killing expeditions
He didn't. He only attacked Expedition 33, because of Maelle.
>Instead of telling them about the real threat
I'm not sure he knew. But they establish at multiple points that they did attempt to communicate and cooperate with other expeditions only to be mistrusted and betrayed. It's not at all a stretch to just accept he had given up on that angle.
>Why didn't he tell the party that Verso was full of shit
Pay close attention to his cutscenes. He is only ever talking to Maelle or Verso. Those are the people he is attempting to convince. From a logistical perspective you might have a point, sure, undermine their alliances or whatever but given the fact that he already attacked Expedition 33 and killed Gustave what reason would he have to assume anyone would believe a word he says? And indeed, why would they?

>>715250943
she was lying retard, she spent 16 years lost in the canvas, she's an addict and i don't blame her, look at her shit real life

>>715251062
Alicia accepted that her life as Maelle was just as real as her life as Alicia and she is both at once

>>715250938
False equivalence a breeder doesn't create the dog, they only facilitate it.. Is a child less important than their parent? Is that always going to be true?

>>715247359 (OP)
the twist was so badly handled
it would have been a solid 8/10 but when it suddenly turns into female trauma psychology sim with no focus on the original world and no real fleshing out of the twist they wanted to make it got worse
missed opportunity

>>715250943
>>715251064
>You can never trust a drug addict

>>715251235
That guy is a retard and tries arguing that the Verso ending isn't a genocide ending. All Versofags are liars. Just like their beloved Verso.

>>715251231
She spent 16 years there because she was broken down and recycled into a new person, not because she decided it was nicer inside

>>715251291
>he who guards truth with lies

ultimately he's the most honest person in the setting

>>715251305
she literally prefers to go by her make believe fake name and life

>>715251148
Sure, she can't be trusted because everyone keeps trying to completely destroy her last connection to her son. She can't trust anyone. If these people would just talk and consider compromise maybe things could've been different.

>>715251337
Yes, he guards the truth that he wants to genocide everyone with the lie that he doesn't. Just like you are trying to pretend that Maelle's ending isn't "Prevent canvas genocide" while Verso's ending is "Commit canvas genocide"

>>715251235
That is not what I said. I said she isnt Maelle and this is 100% true.
>>715251262
You didnt answer the question. If anything the Breeder should have less claim to the dog breed. But again which is more important. Also you actually can use that argument since all the painted that were gommaged arent directly painted but where descended from Aline's original creations

>>715250797
You got it backwards lil bro, Painted Renoir is just Aline's tool. Real Renoir is doing everything in his power to save the family, he's the real hero of the story. The legendary villain whose motivations are better and more just than the heroine's.

>>715251204
>He didn't. He only attacked Expedition 33, because of Maelle.
Expedition 37
>Nobody listened to me, apparently getting slaughtered by Nevrons or this white haired man is an appealing future for them all.
Expedition 56
>How can she be gone? How? How could they so callously, so nonchalantly, destroy such a beautiful soul? Vile, vile, VILE. They just killed her. Like she was a worthless Nevron. Those cold-blooded, treacherous, despicable parasites. But my trap worked. We caught one of those white-haired bastards. She looks human, but I know she’s a monster.

It's not like Alicia will be able to stay long enough to die unless her family want her dead anyway in which case why shouldn't she?
She would never be able to fight off Renoir, Clea and Aline at once.

>>715251441
She is as much Maelle as she is Alicia.

>>715251492
>She would never be able to fight off Renoir, Clea and Aline at once.
i dunno about that Maelle is broken by the end, game makes it a point to show her taking down Renoir

>>715251204
And not once does he tell Maelle "If you succeed, Verso will have everyone getting gommaged"
He's a fun vibes character, but trying to say it all made sense is silly. This is a "feel" story, not a "think" story.

>>715251337
Honest person doesn't lie and twist the wording to his own advantage though. Verso is a chronic liar and hypocrite, at least the painted version of him.

>>715251405
>everyone keeps trying to completely destroy her last connection to her son

Verso would want her to let him go

>>715251537
She isnt. Nothing in the story suggests that at all. If she was Maelle than when she is dying in Verso's arms she wouldnt be begging for Verso not to leave her again she would be begging for Gustave, Sciels and Lunes life

>>715251383
She doesn't want her friends to change how the refer to and treat her, if it was as important to her as you claim then she would demand that Renoir stop calling her Alicia and she would distance herself from him instead of calling him Papa

>>715251598
everything he did was in service to truth

>>715251598
>at least the painted version of him
It's obviously something that is taken straight out of real Verso or Renoir wouldn't have painted the Visage axom for him. Who knows what charming lies Verso got away with before he got burned alive.

>>715251567
Renoir has been stuck wasting away for 67 years at that point from a constant struggle against a better painter

>>715251623
Verso would have shifted his stance if he saw the canvas wasn't going to kill his mother. He only resolutely commited to genocide when Aline re-entered the canvas during the fight with Renoir.

People keep saying Verso is a suicidal liar (he is) but they never talk about why. He is tired of living in the shadow of a dead man, he is tired of watching his real family kill themselves, his fake family is all dead. What else does he actually have to live for?

>Versotards really think we're gonna prevent the resurrection and long-lasting happiness of hundreds of people for the sake of a dysfunctional schizo artfag family.

>>715251638
I didn't she's Maelle, I said she's Alicia AND Maelle

>>715248954
Well, but Alicia can always give it a try. Her main problem is wanting to live as a cripple, and Verso's ending does not address that whatsoever.

>>715251795
I don't have a problem with Verso wanting to die. I have a problem with him taking everyone else with him. If the story was about Verso trying to convince Alicia to kill him and him alone, I'd be on his side.

>>715251802
Should those 100 peoples happiness be at the expense of an enslaved child's soul?

>>715251825
>Verso's ending does not address that whatsoever.
it does

and besides, fucking blind people live fullfilling lives

>>715249509
>but i don't want to let go

>>715251856
Yes. Verso's soul is barely sentient and doesn't have a free will. Those people are fully sentient and have free wills. Bing bong, simple choice.

>>715251780
>Verso would have shifted his stance if he saw the canvas wasn't going to kill his mother
Would he? Because right after that he saw her leave again

>>715251846
>If the story was about Verso trying to convince Alicia to kill him and him alone, I'd be on his side.
but it was for I and many people, i was with Verso the entire time, the game focus so much on his silent reactions to everything happening in the climax

>>715251818
She really isn't. She is Alicia with Maelle's memories but she ultimately isn't Maelle.
>>715251846
Alicia wouldnt do that and her ending clearly shows that is true.

>>715251935
Ok, but it wasn't.
The game says "Decide the fate of the canvas" and Verso wants to erase the canvas, killing everyone inside it other than Maelle, who gets to wake up in reality as Alicia.
That's why I couldn't side with him.

>>715251901
Free will is an illusion of the mind

You are ok /v/

You are gonna be ok

>>715251950
>Alicia wouldnt do that
I agree. The cope is that maybe Verso is able to convince her eventually, but I am prepared for the eventuality that that is not the case.
Either ways, even if the choice is explicitly "Verso and the Dessendres suffer in return for the canvas to live", that's my choice.

>>715251989
Everyone was already dead.

>>715251901
>Verso's soul is barely sentient and doesn't have a free will

and yet it's the most real thin in that fucking painting next to the painters

>>715252030
it's not real you retard

>>715251846
>If the story was about Verso trying to convince Alicia to kill him and him alone, I'd be on his side.
The story is about Alicia wanting to kill herself and her mom while torturing Verso's soul for all eternity

>>715251950
Considering she won't leave the painting she's closer to Maelle with Alicia's memories
Either she is currently both Alicia and Maelle or she was never Maelle in the first place and was always just Alicia

>>715251856
Verso's soul only wanted to stop painting because it was tired of seeing what its family had done to the canvas. This was the soul of a child remember. It created a world of whimsy and childish fantasy. Every time you speak with it it expresses dismay and confusion over other people trashing the place.

>>715251997
Ok, reddit. Verso's soul doesn't even have that illusion.

>>715252045
Maelle resurrected Lune and Sciel. In the Maelle ending we see she resurrected Pierre, Gustave and Gustave's sister too.
Like I said:
>Versotards really think we're gonna prevent the resurrection and long-lasting happiness of hundreds of people for the sake of a dysfunctional schizo artfag family.


>>715252050
It wasn't, though. We see people in the prologue having real human connections and interacting with one another. We learn of Lune and Sciel and see them as real human people. Meanwhile Verso's soul is a being without free will that just feels like an echo of someone else from a long time ago.

>>715251918
I figured she left because she physically wasn't able to sustain her presence any longer due to her already weakened state.

>>715252109
She wont leave the painting because once she remembers who she is she remembers how easy she had it in the painting compared to the real world and Lumiere isnt remotely as bad as Maelle complained that it was.

>>715251950
>Alicia wouldnt do that
She also wouldn't genocide everyone and her ending clearly shows that. Makes no difference to whether pushing for it instead would make Verso's side of the argument much more agreeable.

>Verso: let's go little guy, you had enough
>/v/: REEEEEEEEE

>>715252138
>In the Maelle ending we see she resurrected Pierre, Gustave
Interesting. So she didnt just bring back the gommaged she brought back people that died naturally. Does she do that every time someone falls off a roof or is it only reserved for her friends? Do the people of Lumiere know they are paintings and that Maelle is a paintress that can bring them back? Does Gustave and his sister know the painting is killing Maelle?

>>715247359 (OP)
Haven't started yet, he some kind of bad guy?

>Inb4 just read spoilers

I want to be surprised, so no. Horror games can't get my heart pumping with adrenaline anymore. Last time I ever had such a heart pounding moment was in Lies of P after you defeated Manus on top of the tower. Felt like ages had passed until I made the right choice to fight an epic battle.

>>715252138
> Meanwhile Verso's soul is a being without free will

The fuck are you talking about? How does he not have free will? She chose to kill his creator after choosing to fight on her side for a century, he chose to sacrifice his world to save his mom, he chooses to laugh, to be kind, to lie, to kill, to save. What the fuck are you talking about? He lacks his own identity but he has free will

>>715247581
>haha, you enjoyed a game enough to want to discuss it after you beat it? what a fag

>>715252304
>Does she do that every time someone falls off a roof or is it only reserved for her friends? Do the people of Lumiere know they are paintings and that Maelle is a paintress that can bring them back? Does Gustave and his sister know the painting is killing Maelle?
All very interesting philosophical questions, anon. You could make a game exploring those concepts. A similar thing that can be explored in a similar vein is the ending of Soma.

I hope you didn't intend this as an argument for Verso's ending, though.

>>715252343
Why are you asking if you don't want spoilers? You should avoid these threads entirely. They're literally nothing but.

>>715252392
Sorry, anon, you're not far enough into deranged E33 brain to understand the terms we're using.

This is Verso's soul. Painted Verso is different.

>>715252285
Verso was the only person who ever bothered asking what the kid wanted

>>715247359 (OP)
This game still gets more talked about than death stranding 2 lol

>>715252343
The whole thread is nothing but spoilers, leave now

>>715252553
No shit, there's a little bit more substance here than none at all

>>715252553
I respect the shit out of Kojima, but I don't like open world games. Also, even if I did like them, I'd be waiting for Death Stranding 2 to come out to PC. I imagine there will be more discussion on /v/ when that happens.

>>715252401
Partly. My argument for Verso's ending is that I view the Dessendre's as a higher form of life than the painted. Their ontology is greater. Even from a Utilitarian perspective they are more valuable because each one can paint millions or billions of flourishing life. Death has no meaning for the inhabitants of painting, their will/memories can be overwritten on a whim, their life has to be sustained by a soul that isnt their own. Its not fair but life isnt fair.

>>715252459
Painted Verso still has free will, his circumstances have limited his choices but he is doing what he believes is best, his creator Aline is specifically against what he chooses to do, unless you are saying he was designed to rebel and eventually turn on her after a century to destroy the canvas

>>715251998
Do french people really look like this? He's hot

>>715252667
Nobody said Painted Verso was the one with no free will

>>715252669
1/32

>>715247502
/v/? more like /ad/

xD

>>715252459
>>715252712
Oh right, the kid is a piece of him, my bad I assumed you meant fake Verso

>>715252667
I dont think free will exists for anyone. Aline painted Verso with her Verso's memories. Her Verso is the kind of man that sacrifices himself for his sister. PVerso is sacrificing himself for his sister.

>>715252653
>My argument for Verso's ending is that I view the Dessendre's as a higher form of life than the painted
Ok, but I have empathy for the painted and I don't want to genocide "lower forms of life".

>Even from a Utilitarian perspective they are more valuable because each one can paint millions or billions of flourishing life
So they can kill all those people when they get bored of them? Maybe focus on keeping these ones alive. They can barely even do that. The fuck do I want them to create more for? This is like wanting a mother that choked her babies to death to get pregnant again.

>Death has no meaning for the inhabitants of painting
If the canvas is erased, they go to the void. Whatever happens to them in the void is as unknowable to them as our own afterlives are currently unknowable to us.

>their will/memories can be overwritten on a whim
By painters, yeah. And your will can be overwritten by strong enough medication.

>>715252653
If the inhabitants of the paintings aren't worth anything then being able to paint them is worth nothing.
If the inhabitants of the painting are worth anything, no matter how little, then the worth of the endless canvas inevitably overtakes the worth a single painter

I cried at the hug between Verso, Monmon and Esquie

pRenoir and Paintress were the best boss fights because they were the only bosses that didn't die in one turn, change my mind.
Loved the story, setting and the music but the difficulty was wack. Lune deleted every boss in acts 1 and 2 (except the ones I mentioned), then you get Stendahl and Break Damage Limit and it was one shot city once again

>>715252829
Yes but that’s the irony, this painted Verso was never given the memories of Alicia dying in the fire, he remembers saving her but she was badly scarred.

However PVerso chooses to sacrifice himself for Alicia like real Verso because there’s no version of Verso who wouldn’t do that

>>715252942
I'm not a cheese gamer and every version of Renoir was an easy fight. The last one was of course particularly ridiculous.

>>715252942
I didn't build cheese builds so I enjoyed satisfying boss fights throughout the game.

PLAY THE PIANO
MARRY THE LUNE
MAKE ME THE AUNTIE MAELLE

>>715252859
>I have empathy for the painted and I don't want to genocide "lower forms of life".
If you save the Dessendre family they will be able to paint hundreds of new worlds filled with life. If you want to save this one single world you are denying the possible existence of all those new worlds

>>715253065
Potential life has no worth or moral consideration. Especially at the expense of those who already exist.

>>715252992
> PVerso chooses to sacrifice himself for Alicia like real Verso because there’s no version of Verso who wouldn’t do that

Fuck man

>>715253065
Sounds good to me. I'm not an anti-natalist but I don't necessarily want everyone to keep birthing people over and over. I do, however, have empathy for everyone that is already born. This is the same thing

>>715252860
I didnt say they arent worth anything. I said they arent worth as much as a Dessendre
>>715252859
You can have empathy for animals and still not believe they are worth more than a human.

>>715253171
Except those lives are already gone, they died and were down to a few left before that point

>>715253179
>I'm not an anti-natalist but I don't necessarily want everyone to keep birthing people over and over
You are literally anti-natalist

>>715253203
You cannot concoct a situation where I'd want to kill 30 cats so that more cats can be born later.

>>715253369
You can easily do that. These 30 cats have feline distemper

>>715253337
Maybe I am lol
I guess my position is that we all should be aware of just how big a responsibility giving birth is

>>715253203
If they are worth less than a Dessendre then the canvas being able to continue on endlessly makes the painted world potentially worth more than that single Dessendre

>>715247359 (OP)
I did. That’s why all the imaginary friends had to die, and let versos soul be free

I’m tired

>>715253065
Why should I trust the Dessandre family with the lives of more worlds when they will destroy one entirely out of selfish reasons and because they have no self-control? People like them should never get to be on the role of essentially gods.

>>715253295
Only Aline's creations (humans). The gestrals, grandis, and Esquie/Francois were still fine.

>>715253446
I can agree with that. But every western country with the exception of Israel having a birthrate below replacement rate is clearly a bad thing

>>715253510
Because if you do Versos ending you end the woman moments that led to all the suffering

>>715253514
Not to mention that Maelle brought back Sciel and Lune, who had died at the end of Act 2. But Versofags love to ignore this fact. I appreciate that there is this Verso ending chooser here that actually argues under the premise of the game instead of trying to argue that actually, Verso's ending isn't genocide.

>>715253514
Those were up to Verso to decide what to do with them, they understood what they were to him and they all loved him, they were his childhood friends. If they knew that the kid wanted to rest they’d all join him in rest

>>715253567
Birthrates below replacement is really only a problem if you can't trust people to take care of their aging family

>>715247359 (OP)
>waaa waaa I'm tired and therefore I must commit murder-suicide

Maellefags utterly and permanently BTFO

>>715253686
>Maelle ending the confirmed ending for those with any humanity
Cool

>>715253602
What's stopping them from having more "woman" moments? Clea's complete apathy to her own little sister's feelings is already a red flag for future woman moments from her as well. If only she was a slightly better sister, maybe Alicia wouldn't hate her real life so much that she would rather be stuck on a canvas.

>waaah I can’t face reality and grief, let me cope with imaginary friends and let my loved ones wither and die

I’d understand if you fags were women but Christ, I feel better knowing you people won’t procreate

>>715253514
You know after replaying the game and thinking about the Gestrals they have even less moral weight than the humans. Most of them clearly dont really care about death all that much, they can be completely content being stuck alone in some strange out of way location for decades without a hint of it affecting their sanity. They are extremely childlike in their thought processes and are much more npc like.

/v/ just sides with maelle because she's a loli cartoon, it's not complicated. the whinging about canvas genocide is totally fake.

>>715253686
>AI overview

>>715253667
We can barely trust people to take care of aging families now. And the problem is that there will be aging people with no family at all.

>>715253845
They know they are in a painting made by a kid, it’s the rest of the family that fucked everything up.

>>715253814
>I disagree with you
>I can't actually explain why you're wrong
>NOBODY WILL HAVE SEX WITH YOU!!
And I'M the woman here?

>>715253801
>If only she was a slightly better sister, maybe Alicia wouldn't hate her real life so much that she would rather be stuck on a canvas.
Did you go to the Infinite Tower?
Clea outright tells Aline to stop being a fucking retard, to stop complaining about "being alone" when they CONSTANTLY invite her to do things together but Alicia goes "nuhh yehhh" every time

>>715253814
People like you who just turns the argument entirely into "uhh drug addiction and grief" are a showcase of Verso picker's weak understanding of the situation. You simply completely ignore the life of someone like Lune who basically doesn't get a stay in the end of her life because Verso wants to kill himself. Nevermind all the other characters like Gustave who never got a chance to live because of the painter's petty squabble.

>>715253913
If I was gonna fuck anyone in the party, it'd be Lune, not Maelle.
But your argument stands, because Lune also gets genocided in Verso's ending. And Sophie.

>>715253942
> And I'M the woman here?

Considering you and Aline and Maelle are of one mind on this, yes

This game is literally just the abortion debacle

>>715254089
Doesn't translate cleanly to any side, but yeah, there's parallels here.

>>715253967
>little sister with burned face who can't speak and only has an eye now in life? just stop being a bitch lol get over it
I'm sure someone who spends his time shitposting on /v/ knows all about how easy it is to just get over things.

>>715253930
We can barely trust people to do it because it's been relegated the job of the state that those people have to pay for even if they are taking care of their parents
Remove the government intervention and people will have to raise their children to like them enough to look after them in the future and the birthrate "issue" will sort itself out because it becomes a matter of have kids or have nobody to care for you in your 80s

>>715253991
at least you can admit that you just want to save your cartoon wife instead of creating some ushiromiya battler-tier argument as a smokescreen for being a pedo

>>715254089
No, it's the abortion debate if fetuses were conscious beings that could tell you they want to live.

>>715254089
No, this game is about if assisted suicide is right or not

>>715254192
Lune is 32 years old. I'm no pedo.
And I can simultaneously want to fuck Lune and also argue that the non-genocide ending is the better choice of the genocide family trauma solving ending

>>715248683
>Alicia is not Maelle
this is my favorite headcanon cope

>>715254089
>dude this is literally JUST *retarded comparison that's only true in part*
Life sure is simple when you can turn every argument into another argument that has a right choice, even when they don't fully fit as equal problems.

>>715254254
Except the assisted suicide has to be a suicide nuke.

>>715254254
Is it really suicide when it’s an immortal clone of a dead person?

>>715249369
>For E33, everyone is dead at the start of Act 3. They already died in act 2. Thinking you can bring them back is just a desperate coping mechanism
Except we clearly see that the gommaged people are still around in the form of Chroma and Alicia is able to restore Lune and Sciel just fine.

>>715253986
She only had a year left anyway

>>715253967
She tells Alicia not to try to lecture her on the importance of the canvas because she was the one that spent time playing and creating with Verso while Alicia was reading in her room. She was saying that she cares more about the canvas than Alicia does, not that Alicia has no business feeling lonely

>>715254384
yes
especially so considering he only wants this ending, because he knows the girl doesn't have it in her heart to kill him personally.

>>715254384
Yes.

>>715254354
>suicide nuke

Lumiere is already dead

IDK why people assume Alicia's ending means the grief is resolved for her. She's just standing alone at his grave thinking about all the people that she lost.

>>715254156
>it becomes a matter of have kids or have nobody to care for you in your 80s
This sounds miserable, though. Why would you want parents to have kids out of some obligation to get taken care of? I'm very blessed that my parents love me because they love me and not out of some pragmatic consideration. (The opposite, in fact! Logically, all I did was suck money from them until I left the house)
Like, all I can think of if I try to draw out this line of thinking is some sort of "We need productive members of society" kike logic.

>>715254153
Yes, I do. It's easier, nay, possible if you stop acting like Harry Du Boise and actually want to get better instead of worse.

>>715254479
The gestrals are not.

>>715254512
>thinking about all the people that she lost.
they weren't real

>>715254195
So its okay to kill unconcious people?>>715254089
Prochoicers will complain that gommaging Lumiere is genocide but wouldnt think less about killing a human life in a woman's womb

>>715254479
I've already told you that Maelle revived Lune and Sciel a million times. You keep ignoring it because you have no counter to it.

>>715254512
Because that’s how we deal with loss, we remember the pain but smile when we remember the happiness that came with it like she does at end. That’s part of life.

>>715254548
Not even Maelle think the Gestrals are equal to humans.

Personally I can't wait for the sequel about Maelle's survivor's guilt.

So does Maelle just make death not a thing anymore in the canvas?

Seems pointless, everyone will end up wanting to die like Verso eventually and Markel will become mad like her mom

>>715254583
you aren't real either

>>715254709
>So does Maelle just make death not a thing anymore in the canvas?
Why would you think that? you can see that her and Verso have aged in a way.

>>715254593
>Prochoicers will complain that gommaging Lumiere is genocide but wouldnt think less about killing a human life in a woman's womb
In theory, I am pro choice but I think we are currently in a very grim reality where we have over-corrected from "Abortion is completely illegal" to "Yasssss abortion is so le based, let's abort all the time LOL!!!"
Basically, the conservatives have a point with being pro-life. There should be shame and pain associated with aborting. I don't like the idea of a society where we treat abortion as just a slightly more inconvenient morning pill or condom.

>>715254619
She was wrong to revive them

>>715254709
>So does Maelle just make death not a thing anymore in the canvas?
No, the people she restored have clearly been aging in the end.

>>715254534
If you spend your life avoiding making connections for anyone to look after you when you need it then it should not be the job of the public to pay someone to help you. I don't care if these people die alone or not but don't try to feed me this sub-replacement birthrate crisis because it's always going to lead to importing shitskins. Let the population fall, it isn't a problem for anything but pensions.

>>715254709
>>715254757
Sciel says "because death is not death anymore", so i'd say alicia can bring anybody back, therefore there is no real death anymore

>>715254757
But only Verso has aged, no one else has and it’s clearly been awhile.
Did she bring back everyone who ever died? Sciel’s husband and child, people who were gommaged, gustave

>>715254906
She can, that doesn't mean that she does

>>715254909
Why the hell would only Verso have aged? why would she have someone keep aging and everyone else not? you people aren't even trying to make sense anymore.

>>715254782
Why are you lying?
Everyone is the same age, Gustave looks the same, Sophie does as well, Sciel’s child is still an infant, only Verso is aging in this new world

>>715254768
Right or wrong it's done and now it would be wrong to kill them.

>>715255021
She brought back Pierre and Sciel's child, if anybody begged her to bring one of their loved ones back she would clearly do it.

>>715247502
spbp

>>715255047
Because He wants to die, the others don’t

>>715254437
She straight up tells Alicia that she always invited her to do things but Alicia's answer was always "nooo I'm too lonely"

>>715255050
There are obvious wrinkles on their faces.

>>715255089
Maybe or maybe she deemed Sciel worthy of a special reward for directly contributing to the removal of Renoir and Aline

>>715255047
because
>IF YOU COULD GROW OLD
>WOULD YOU FIND A REASON TO SMILE
or whatever

>>715254760
>"Yasssss abortion is so le based, let's abort all the time LOL!!!"
This doesn't happen outside the fever dreams of religious fundies.

As a Maelle ending picker, I will say that it's possible that we're reading too much into Verso's "aged" face. It could just be artistic rendition to make him look more miserable for the ending to hit harder.

>>715255047
Allowing Verso to age was her compromise with his wish for death. Play the piano for a few decades and then you can be at peace.

>>715255209
-> >>715255175


Retard

ENOUGH ABOUT THE FUCKING ENDINGS
POST MUSIC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwAL9RG5YK8

>>715255176
Let's not pretend that progressives haven't gotten disturbingly blase about killing unborn babies.
Black women especially just rely on abortions instead of contraception.

>>715255176
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlnYeUF04dM

I get what you're saying, anon. The religious fundies exaggerate it to create more panic, but there is absolutely a subset of people that don't treat abortion as the big deal it should be seen as, and I think we are failing as a society for not being more open in shaming those people. This is other lives that are being fucked with.

>>715255281
While he has to watch her lose her sanity and die knowing full well that the little sister “he” gave his real life for will die here

>>715255325
Why would you say that and then post one of the worst tracks from the game

>>715255138
I know what she says, the point is their discussion was not about whether or not Alicia caused herself to be lonely it was about whether Clea was being flippant about the fate of the canvas

>>715255325
https://youtu.be/yjM8zHCGc5U?si=iQOZP46DBK3m0PfD

>>715255325
>Best area of the game is the third area
What did they mean by this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5StbilWhRw&list=RDn5StbilWhRw&start_radio=1

I love this song and I have it on the background of the space TTRPG I'm playing because I think it fits really well there too.

>>715255325
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Nas0ft2ME

>>715255325
You seem to have accidentally stumbled into the endings thread, we talk about the endings here

>>715255176
You are out of your mind. Have you not seen Lily Allen?

Am I the only one who thought the choice at the end was incredibly hard? I was fighting myself the whole way. Can’t remember the last time I cared about a choice in a game like that

>>715255449 (Me)
God this theme is so fucking good
It's kino in the first half and then goes kino overdrive in the second half. Unbelievable work.
The Gobu bass battle theme from the same area is also phenomenal, of course.

>>715255325
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZXLaLPErVk
>when the guy starts narrating
>when the ominous drumbeat kicks in
love it

What would Gustave have wanted?

>>715255636
Probably
I never for a second considered siding with Verso when every single scene up to that point gave me reason to not trust him or care about what he wants

>>715255762
For her to let him go

>>715255762
speaking of gustave, what was up with that comment from the fasing boy that implied gustave wasn't from the canvas

>>715255762
Considering Gustave briefly considered ignoring the mission for the sake of Maelle, I think Verso could believably sweet talk him into committing genocide to save Alicia.

>>715255762
Gustave always cared more for her than stopping the paintress

So if he knows everything the player knows he’d probably help Verso kick her out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3WHa1gDNQM
de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau de la peau

>>715255762
>>715255829
Maelle unconsciously painted Gustave to adopt her because she was missing Verso

>>715247359 (OP)
who's life?

it's always funny how there is a category of people that thinks maelle will 'protect' the citizens of lumiere
they're in for a rude awakening when she'll inevitably die inside the painting, and either clara or renoir will it
She doesn't care about (YOU) as long as you're a good background npc for her make believe life

>>715255945
Letting him die really did make no sense, the only time he might oppose Verso would have been after beating The Paintress when Gustave would have just been gommaged with the rest

>>715256101
>Joke's on you, buddy, you don't get to die now and you get to die later
>And the person that has kept you alive and lets you live your life? She doesn't even care about you all that much
Wooooow, great argument, Versofag. Go ahead and genocide my kind now.

>>715247359 (OP)
>choose life guys
Amen.

>>715247502
Spbp

Fuck you frog fucker. Never buying your parry slop

The Maelle ending isn’t healthy for her

>>715256203
you're my favorite anon on this board

>>715251405
Renoir tried to talk to her for 67 years, she's insane
That's why she had to be forced out of the canvas, no one could convince her that it was time to let go. Being an addict must run in the family since Alicia does the same shit as soon as she gets a chance

Why does Verso look like Jesus

>>715256370
because he is

>>715256370
He played the piano for our sins

>>715247359 (OP)
Thought this was the gigachad meme

>fags caring what verso wants, someone who lied and deceived everyone throughout about pretty much everything

>>715256485
I always though Verso looked like a greek

>>715256508
Sorry that I like the best written character

>>715256567
>best written means lies about everything
I see, I see...

>>715256508
What else was he supposed to do? Go up to them and tell them all to sacrifice themselves to drive out his mom of the canvas to their faces?

I like how Verso died for nothing because of My L tards

>>715256567
pfft
Pfffffft
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTT

>>715247359 (OP)
>choose life
>choose life in a game populated by bots with cheats on

>>715256567
but enough about Renoir

>>715256703
I meant best written of the main group but fair

>>715248143
>appreciates the people and creatures that live in there.
the painting is escapism for her

>>715256643
it wasn't actually his mom, he was just an asshole that wanted all of the sentient beings to die

>>715248683
you're wrong about Nier though

You guys are not serious people

You can’t just hide behind escapism your whole life

>>715256853
agreed, that's why I play video games
real shit for real people

>>715256508
>caring about lying to pigments

>>715256780
He was painted to be The Paintress' son, it's not the same thing as Maelle not being this Verso's sister. Painted Renoir, Painted Alicia, Painted Clea and The Paintress are his family.

>>715256314
Thank you and the Lord bless you.

>>715248140
>deal with grief
This game didn't make me give a slightest fuck about Dessendre shits and their gRiEf. If anything, it exposed all of them as terrible evil people responsible for immense amount of suffering.
At the same time, I've spent the entire game trying to save canvas world and characters in it, and all the things in the game except last 2 minutes were supposed to motivate me to do exactly that, so that's what I'm going to do. Don't see how is that even a dilemma.
Not to mention, that V*rso suffering is a nice bonus.

>>715255762
Lune footjobs

>>715256919
>caring about pigments that lie

>>715256919
he was a pigment too, dumbo
brain, use it

embarrassingly cringe plot

>>715250858
Real Renoir literally thanked and apologized to painted Verso at the beginning of Act 3. He would obviously be grateful.

>>715256780
He literally cares more about those sentient beings more than anyone else did.
Don’t even get me started on how he was the only one who cared about what the real Verso wanted

>>715257109
The real Verso didn't know what he wanted

>>715256853
>sorry lune, you have to die in your 20s and everything and everyone you know has to be wiped from existence because we have to teach a teenager healthy coping habits

>>715257109
who the fuck cares what the real Verso wanted?
he was a retard that got himself killed and now shit's fucked
now this guy wants to kill all the rest of the sentient beings in the painting

>>715257174
He was tired, tired of seeing his painting used for the wrong reasons, tired of his family, tired of painting, he deserved rest

>>715257259
Ignoring the fact that they were literally born to be a coping mechanism

>>715257284
He wanted Clea's Nevrons to stop eating his painting because he didn't understand the point, other than that he was literally saying to himself "maybe I should continue forever..." about the painting

>>715257425
Yeah but ultimately he thinks Renoir is doing what needs to be done and when asked if he wants to stop painting he stops

>Verso's ending

>>715257357
No they weren't
They would have been born whether the Fracture happened or not, Lumiere and it's population predate Verso's death

>>715257425
Cleas Nevrons were eating humans not Verso's creations

>>715257639
I mean lots of women fall for guys who say they've changed

>>715257535
He says that Renoir is doing what needs to be done but can follow that up "Yes... unless... No... maybe I should never stop...but..."
He doesn't know what he wants

>>715257643
Nigga Lumiere was created by Aline as a coping mechanism

>make a cool setting
>make a cool story
>make cool characters
>throw all of that out in favor of a completely pointless twist of "IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT LE SUPER DEEP TOPICS OF ESCAPISM AND GRIEF YOU GUYS" and a half-baked binary choice at the end
>it actually succeeds and the shitty twist and binary choice is literally the only thing anybody actually talks about when discussing this game

>>715257687
I'm just reiterating what Verso's soul tells you, he has you speak to the lady of sap because the things she paints (nevrons) are eating the painting
Nevrons are just sucking up chroma to tilt the balance of power away from Aline because she was a better painter than Renoir but Clea wanted Renoir to win

>>715257687
There are giant nevrons literally eating the landscape. Yellow Harvest I think it was?

>>715257841
Gustave is the opening character and the main protagonist for the best 1/3 of the game, and the only time people talk about him is when they say "verso let gustave die". That's how much the shitty endings poisoned discussion about this game.

>>715257841
>a completely pointless twist
brainlet
it wasn't a twist if you paid any attention to what people said

>>715251875
Blind people do not live in chronic pain and don't have a concept of being disfigured because they're blind.

>>715258157
Yes, if you use the power of hindsight. If you actually play the fucking game though, none of those things that people say come until halfway through.

>>715258064
Gustave is there for the portion where the characters and the player know the least about anything, he doesn't get to interact at camp the same way to form a deeper understanding of his bonds with the other characters and his biggest trait outside of caring about Maelle is being an expedition history nerd. What do you really want to talk about here?

I actually feel sorry for anyone who unironically believes Maelle's ending is in anyway good. Imagine being so starved of female attention and validation you actually think feeding into some teenager's delusions is in anyway a good decision, really shows one's stunted maturity. I don't even mean this as an insult, I'm genuinely saddened you think the way you do.

>>715258419
You already said two big ones. Their exploration of the Continent, and expedition history. But the entire fucking continent AND all expeditions AND the entire fucking game world get swept under the rug in favor of le family drama so, fuck all that I guess.

>>715255325
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v4tyAoohCE
What got me to buy the game.

he did nothing wrong

>>715258845
he utterly failed to provide support to his family and only tried to help in a remedial after-the-fact way

>>715256508
>Yeah he had the best intentions but he lied about them
So? They were all going to get gommaged eventually, even if they didn't stop the paintress. Verso didn't talk them into committing suicide, he got them to produce the only positive outcome out of a fucked up situation, which was to at least make Aline briefly stop killing herself

>>715258335
It was obvious that the Paintress wasn't really the villain as soon as you get to the cliffs area and find a shrine dedicated to her showing that she was an object of worship. After that it became obvious that Painted Renoir trying to stop you and telling you that what he's doing is a kindness would play a part in that reveal. It was obvious that Maelle would be a paintress as soon as you leave that area and can enter the workshop where the fading boy literally tells you that you have the same power with a brush. It was obvious after the 3rd door to the manor which you've already learned by then do not open for anybody else that the Curator being there with Maelle and him having the power to upgrade your shit made him much more important and likely to end up being the actual villain. None of that required hindsight which I know because I didn't use hindsight for any of it. By the time any "twists" happen you should only need the details filled in but otherwise already have figured out where things are going. There are other major plot points that were clearly telegraphed but I'm not typing them all out.

>>715257259
She's 32 retard

>>715258904
It is 100% not his fault that every woman in his family is an unbalanced mess. He was trying to turn around a horrible situation that had completely spun out of his control.

>>715258671
Gustave didn't really explore much of the continent and while he knows about the prior expeditions any discussion about them would be better focusing on the journals instead so there isn't much to talk about there either. He never even got to cross the sea on Esquie.

>NOOOOOOO
>I HAVE TO TRAP MYSELF IN MY CYCLES OF GUILT
>IT'S ALL WE HAVE LEFT OF VERSO EVEN THOUGH HE WANTS TO BE LET GO
Maelle and the Paintress need to get over their grief. They can go make their own paintings, but it is time to move on from Verso

>>715259067
>It is 100% not his fault that every woman in his family is an unbalanced mess
His wife? Not really his fault, he didn't raise her but he also didn't fix her.
His daughters? Yes that is his fault.

>>715247359 (OP)
Women chose Maelle's ending. Men chose Verso's ending. Memes aside though, if you chose Maelle's ending, that might deeper mental implications that have yet to be addressed.

>>715258904
What should he have done?

>>715258947
I hate to break this to you but that family is going to die anyway, killing all of the people inside the painting is not a solution

>>715259314
>Yes that is his fault.
>It's his fault his son dying lead to his youngest daughter being a delusional waste
Yeah no, anon.

>>715259408
>>715259440
maybe provide support to his family and their process of grief BEFORE they have a breakdown? just a guess

>>715256981
You seem like the type of person that can be easily radicalized into performing atrocities with the excuse that you were "Just following orders".

>>715247776
What's left of Verso is suffering. He isn't being allowed to actually die, forced to live a tortured half-existence so that his mom and sister can continue to live in a fantasy world with their dolls.

You've got two real people torturing the soul of someone supposedly love while destroying themselves in the process so they can shield themselves from having to process the grief of the loss.

>>715259343
The issues with Maelle's ending solely appear after you have already chosen it and it is the logical conclusion after fighting Renoir to prevent Verso's ending

>>715250162
It actually made it matter more to me, knowing the gestrals and all the 'normal' work in the painting was a child's drawings added this level of melancholy, and I came to view every piece of the original canvas as this part of the real Verso. Little touches like the fact Golgra is clearly his conceptualization of Clea comes to mind immediately. Monnoco being his dog. Esquie being his childhood toy. The canvas becomes a portrait of a guy's life. I kinda felt it because I have alot of childhood sketchbooks lying around, my mom keeps drawings I made as a kid framed and on the wall even now. I felt alot of it dig in deep.There's even little things; Lune being a musician, like Verso. A projection fantasy, an idealized girlfriend? I have no evidence for that but maybe. It adds alot of texture to the loss of the Dessendre family.

>>715259479
He did though.

>>715259281
This. It's the only way forward for everyone involved.
>>715259479
>Maybe provide help to everyone while also shouldering the death of your only son
Very cool idea, anon.

Alicia needed to wake the fuck up and accept her life instead of hiding in a painting. It wasn't even grief in the end just her selfish escapism forcing versos soul to forever paint.

>>715257004
>>715257005
>Caring about pigment lying to pigment

>>715250978
How long have you been posting on /v/?

>>715259574
when? doesn't seem to be any evidence for him doing shit until after the situation was already unsalvageable
>>715259593
how old are you?

APOLOGIZE, NOW!

None of this would have happened if Alicia had just listened to her mom and not get tricked by the Writers

>>715259606
The pigment lied to one of the only non-pigments there, as such the pigment MUST have been in the wrong

>>715247359 (OP)
Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life… But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin’ else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you’ve got heroin?

>>715259675
Lame deflection, sorry you never matured past the level of a teenage woman, gaylord.

>>715259606
That portion of Verso's soul literally only existed to paint
If Verso never died his canvas would still have had part of his soul in it, would it have been evil to have it there painting then?

>>715259819
damn you really showed me your maturity and masculinity by... being unable to deal with your own emotions or support your family

>>715259675
> doesn't seem to be any evidence
>"19_Maelle": "After the fire– You wanted me to find– new joy in life."

>>715259753
he chose life

>>715259593
>Maybe provide help to everyone while also shouldering the death of your only son
Yes. That's what being a bereaved father is.

>>715259964
>being unable to deal with your own emotions or support your family
But I did by choosing the ending that leads to the family gaining closure instead of burying their heads in the sand like a weak homo.

>>715260016
So what Renoir did by freeing his son's soul and removing the canvas from the equation? Cool.

>>715259408
Let Aline wallow in her misery and actually be there for his grieving daughters

>>715260113
>just let your wife kill herself
Retard.

>>715259753
Incredibly apt metaphor, since you're dealing with a junkie who is twisting himself into knots on why it's good that he's an unemployed drug addict.

>>715260093
No not at all, that was something that he tried to do to remedy the situation after the fact. He had to go to such extremes precisely because he didn't adequately support his family when it mattered most

>>715259530
You already see how the paintress was consumed by the fantasy she created. That was your foreshadowing. Maelle is a desperate and emotional 16 year old. It was obvious she lacked the self awareness and maturity to properly grieve while being stuck in a made up world. Some people just need that slap in the face.

>>715257259
How dare you commit genocide by closing any game you've ever opened.

>>715260160
Renoir is projecting hard when he thinks she'll die in there. He thinks because he himself needed to be saved by her then she also needs saving.
For all we know she would have already left the Canvas by now if she could have spent those 67 years with Verso instead of being trapped atop the Monolith by Renoir.

>>715260219
>that was something that he tried to do to remedy the situation after the fact
After Alicia and Aline were too kneedeep in their delusions completely independent of Renoir's will or intentions? Cool, still freeing Verso and removing the canvas from the delusional women.

>>715260354
>Renoir is projecting hard when he thinks she'll die in there.
Only he's not because that's what happens if Maelle gets her way, I'm sorry you made the wrong choice and now feel a need to defend your poor choices.

>>715260354
For all we know she would have never left because she has Verso in there.

>>715260367
>After Alicia and Aline were too kneedeep in their delusions completely independent of Renoir's will or intentions
Aline, maybe. Alicia, no. Alicia had to go into the painting in the first place because Renoir had been trying to erase everything for 50 "years" and was getting nowhere.
>Cool, still freeing Verso and removing the canvas from the delusional women.
He didn't give a shit about freeing Verso, he was only concerned with taking the canvas away from his wife by force. In the time that he wasted battling her he could have talked her through why she needs to let go. At no point does he do anything to help his family besides get angry at them, he even takes issue with Clea who isn't in there. The Fracture happened because he failed to hold his family together and he's now trying to shred the last scrap of Verso to force everyone to listen to him.

>>715260901
>He didn't give a shit about freeing Verso
He literally shows the real Verso suffering as one of his driving forces in the last boss fight with him when he opens the portal.

>>715261021
I must have hit him too hard then, the only time I saw him open a portal was the cutscene one that showed his Nightwing wife falling over

>>715260354
>"I know what he’ll say, but this is the first time I’ve felt any surcease. For a few moments a day, my heart beats again…"
>Just a few hits each day won't hurt.
>Gotta keep it a secret from my husband though.
Yeah, sure.

>>715261294
>dude it's JUST like drugs actually
>im so smart

>>715261494
It really sounds like it, right? Glad you noticed.

>>715254394
Create new copies of Lune and Sciel.
Throwing someone into a blender and remaking that person from the same slushy means you killed them and made a copy.

>>715261494
It is unironically like drugs though, I'm sorry you cannot understand the equivalency.

>>715253760
What kind of Disney fairy tale shit are you on that paintings are more important than life?

>>715261021
Yes but that's never actually what he cares about. It's a secondary thing he brings up. A bit of leverage to make people feel guilty about resisting.

I think the Verso ending is correct, but I also recognize that Renoir is wrong because his desires to destroy the canvas isn't based on any kind of compassion or care for anyone in his family. He wants authority over his wife and his children, and wants them to obey his dictates without question.

He doesn't want to destroy the canvas for Verso's sake. He wants to destroy it so that his wife and child will stop escaping into it when he wants them to swallow their grief and not process it.

Alicia and Aline are still in the denial stage of grief. Escaping into a fantasy world to not face the reality. Alicia might be at bargaining - believing that she can create a fantasy reality where her brother never actually has to die and even gets to play music like he wanted (nevermind that his soul is tired and wants to be let go.)

Renoir and Clea are both in the anger stages of grief. Renoir's anger is directed at his family. His demand is "get over it" while not being over it himself - even if he believes himself to be over it. He wants them to jump from stage one to stage five immediately, and is getting pissed off that they're not doing it.

He's also angry at Clea, who is at the same point in the process as he is, but has directed her anger outward at the Writers - which is why she's out there enacting a personal vendetta against them. Renoir, being who he is, is also pissed about this because how dare his daughter focus on something else and not what he wants.

An important thing to understand. Everyone in the Dessendre is a selfish hypocrite who does what they want and then invents a moral justification for it later.

>>715261678
The paintings are literally alive

>>715261737
They're simulacrums, not actual people.

>>715261737
Which is why letting them be the playthings of a traumatised teenage girl is a bad thing.

>>715261679
>he wants them to swallow their grief and not process it.
What he wants is for them all to grieve together, not for them to just 'get over it'.

>>715261872
He really does not. He says and implies that's what his want, but his version of grieving isn't actually processing the pain of loss. It's the emotional equivalent of "rub some dirt on it and walk it off."

>>715261813
There isn't any significant difference
They live, laugh and love just like anybody else

>>715261983
So deleting your Sims save file is genocide then?

>>715262070
No. And you know what the difference is, don't be a wanker.

Things are not as Clair Obscur as you seem to believe they are

>>715247359 (OP)
I couldn't give two shits about Verso but the Painters need to move on irl and win, and they're not winning with a vegetable opium addict daughter for a burden.

>>715247359 (OP)
>Verso if not being controlled by his literal demon sister

>>715262150
Oh. You're British.
Yeah, no wonder you'd feel sympathy for a simulacrum of a human being, considering you are one yourself.

>>715261960
I think you're projecting your own daddy issues onto real Renoir

>>715262278
She's less of a burden where she is
If she spent more time in a canvas then Verso might not have died in the first place

I guess you could say that this game really was our final fantasy.

>>715262354
No, I'm not. Nice try pretending you didn't make a right tit of yourself though.

It's always Alicia this and Verso that, but what about Clea who's caused the death of millions with her Nevron creations?

>>715262361
No, not really. I have no real issues with my father - he's a kind, loving and supportive man.

But I've met Renoirs in my life. They're my uncle, and his children who all grew up to be total trainwrecks. They're the step father of my second girlfriend. They're the neighbor up the street who's kids flinched when they heard the garage door opening. I can continue to go on, but ultimately it doesn't matter.

I recognize what a good father is, and have also learned to see what a good father is not.

And in Renoir I see a variation of a man I've seen countless times before. A man who believes that authority and obedience are things that are owed to him for nothing. A man who lashes out when things are not how he wants them.

>>715262519
You can't hide your inhuman anglo nature.

>>715262838
>And in Renoir I see a variation of a man I've seen countless times before
I was on your side about Renoir fucking things up but you are not beating the projection charges here man

>>715262541
it's ok because she's cute

>>715262992
It's not my fault you all have shitty dads.

>>715262923
Just as you can't hide your desperation to move away from the retarded point you attempted to make

>>715263073
The point remains: erasing fake people isn't genocide because they're not real.
The rest was just making fun of you for twisting yourself into not on why the fake people in the canvas as somehow an exception to this.

>>715262838
How deep into your Renoir headcanon are you?

>>715263241
Living painting = life
Erasing all that life = genocide
Pretty simple stuff

>>715262838
He seemed like a pretty chill dad until the grief of losing Verso made him desperate to cling onto the rest of his family, I don't know where you're getting all this from

>>715259560
I understand you Versoanon

>>715263241
But they aren't fake.
I can delete my sims files without regret because I know there's nothing actually thinking in there.
The inhabitants of the Canvas on the other hand clearly are thinking beings, just as much as the painters are.

cant wait for the movie

>>715259560
>Lune being a musician
>A projection fantsay, an idealized girlfriend?
Lune, like all Lumierians, isn't a creation of Verso. It's possible she got somehow influenced by Verso's soul fragment, but I think it's much more likely she just liked music on her own.

>>715263395
>Living painting = life
Wrong. They are paint on a canvas, the same way that your sims are bits on a hard drive.

>>715259560
>>715263860
The city (with her fake family) is made by Aline.
Verso made the landscape, the gestrals, the grandis, and Esquie and Francois.
The axon dungeons are made by Renoir, other nevrons by Clea.

>>715263669
You're the kind of guy who thinks that ChatGPT is sentient, aren't you?

>>715264201
An odd conclusion to come to when the other side of the conversation is the one drawing that kind of comparison

Literally what are people advocating for in Verso ending?? They are going to war against the painters, Verso just wanted to die, there was nothing else to him he even says to her go make another painting lmao. So
>Verso doesn't give a fuck if she goes to live in another painting ignoring reality
Next, the family mending THEY ARE LITERALLY GOING TO WAR WITH ANOTHER MAGICAL FACTION IRL
Did any of you retards even play the game ???

>>715264391
No, it tracks. You're the kind of dumbass who looks at an amalgamation of pigments on a canvas and goes "that's a real, thinking human being."

So it makes sense that you'd be the kind of guy who's get tricked by an overhyped markov chain.

>>715264524
Why is Vegeta going to rape the kid from Undertale?

>>715257109
>what the real Verso wanted
>For me everything in this canvas is as much alive as what is outside.
>Esquie, the gestrals, the grandis, even Aline's paintings. I welcome them all.
>Painting should be a celebration. Just like music...

What I don't get about versofags is they cared about the people in the painted world right up until 5 minutes before the credits rolled. Say a sequel came out and it turns out the world the painters lived in wasn't real either, it was all created by the writers and they're about 5 minutes from throwing it all in the trash as well because some alternate version of verso in guatemala doesn't want to play the marimba, would you suddenly stop caring about the dessendres as well? What about them makes them more "real"?

The Verso ending would make a whole lot more sense if the choice was made before fighting Renoir and triggered a different boss battle instead, possibly Maelle flips the fuck out so badly that the whole party agrees to fight her. It makes no sense to fight Renoir and then immediately do what he wanted.

>>715264917
>Say a sequel came out and it turns out the world the painters lived in wasn't real either, it was all created by the writers and they're about 5 minutes from throwing it all in the trash as well because some alternate version of verso in guatemala doesn't want to play the marimba, would you suddenly stop caring about the dessendres as well
Yes?

>>715264201
No. I understand ChatGPT well enough to know that there can't be anything thinking in there.
I can't say the same for fantasy magical paintings. I've just seen nothing that gives the impression they are all scripted or p-zombies or whatever.

If you go for a ten or so hour drive on the interstate you'll realize that actually genocide is a good thing :^)

>>715265332
So it basically amounts to "if I don't have enough technical expertise, they're real."
God damn you're a fucking dumbass.

>>715265417
Kill everyone in the flyovers.

>>715264856
Those are his beliefs, not his wants.

>>715265430
You are never going to manage the epic gotcha moment you've spent this whole time fishing for
You are not smart enough to pull this off

>>715265610
I am not looking for some gotcha moment. I'm not trying to put you into some trap. I am letting you explain your stupid ideas.

>>715265807
You aren't at all, that's why you keep reverting to "so basically..." and attempting to disingenuously frame what's being said in the worst way you can. It's pathetic and isn't working.

>>715265430
Renoir has the technical expertise, and he agrees with me. What, you think he'd apologize to an NPC?

>>715257738
At the end he did, he was tired

>>715266184
At the end he was openly unsure and leaning towards continuing until someone said to stop

>>715266043
Which is why you've devolved to critiquing the form of the argument, rather than the argument itself.

>>715266176
Anon. Darling, sweetheart, dearest?
I've been holding that position this whole time. As you can see when you look at posts like >>715263241 , where I say that erasing the people on the canvas isn't genocide. Or here at >>715262070 , where I point out that erasing the canvas is no different than deleting a Sims save file.
They're simulacra of people. Killing them isn't murder, and erasing the canvas isn't genocide.

>>715248140
You dont deal with grief by destroying a world. You get over it and just leave.

>>715249369
They might not be the 'same' people, but the creations of the paintresses are sentient nonetheless.

>>715265430
Kek, you retard have no idea what you're talking about. You know what? Side you're so smart and right, listen to yourself and go outside for once. Leave this digital false reality.

>>715266793
>where I point out that erasing the canvas is no different than deleting a Sims save file
It is very different. I don't know why you refuse to accept that.

>>715266793
I understand that your position is that the painted people are NPCs. But do you agree that Renoir disagrees with you, seeing how he does not act like they are?

>>715267157
Because it's fundamentally not.

>>715260525
>Only he's not because that's what happens if Maelle gets her way
Show me where in the Maelle ending we see Aline die.

>>715261607
Wrong. The painted people ARE chroma. Disassembling them doesn't kill them and they can be reassembled without dying.

>>715267372
Your sims are not conscious, dipshit.

>>715267263
He talks to Maelle the whole time, somewhat acknowledges Verso (because they can help each other, their goals are the same, and he reminds him of the real one), the rest of painted creatures barely receive one word. He doesn't even give a damn erasing painted Renoir, and encourages the party to go kill the axons (his own creations who were chilling on their islands and dindu nuffin).

>>715268139
When he thinks that he has already won and has no need for Verso anymore he offers his apologies for all the trouble his family has caused him and regrets that the only thing he can reward him with is annihilation. Renoir also acknowledges Sciel and Lune being right about everything they're saying but it isn't enough to dissuade him from his path which is already something he isn't happy about but is forcing himself to do. Renoir simply has too much conviction, if the painted beings didn't NEED to be killed then he wouldn't because he knows that they are alive, he explicitly refers to them as Alicia's "friends".

>>715247359 (OP)
no

>>715264109
And we're just arrangements of atoms in a quantum field. They're alive regardless of the medium they exist in.

>>715265560
After that he says to "take care of yourself and of the paintings around you"

>>715270673
He also thanks you for "taking care" of pClea and you know what that meant.

>>715271428
Because she's no longer herself, her soul is long gone and the real her wouldn't have wanted to end up like that. The paintings around Maelle are not in the same situation, taking care of them is in the same vein as taking care of herself. The Fading Boy was not telling Maelle to kill herself or the paintings.

Kim Jong Un, my son, you have to bomb all these people so that you can move forward. It's what's best for your personal growth.

>>715272053
>I say this painting is soulless so it's okay to unpaint it
>the Nevrons pClea created? I dunno, unpaint them too
>that special Nevron Clea herself created? it's sooo scary and gives me nightmares. kill it. kthxbye
>also I hope that bitch never paints her stupid shit here again
Hmm...

Lotta retards on this website who'll be campaigning for AGI rights in a couple years

>>715272931
>I say this painting is soulless
It demonstrably is and when it partially regains it's senses it immediately kills itself because that is what she would have wanted. And he doesn't tell you to unpaint it, he tells you not to be unpainted by it.
The nevrons are something he doesn't understand the reason behind and as far as he can tell are the result of her having lost her mind.
Incredibly different from all the people, gestrals and grandis, Esquie and Francois

>>715251064
based

>>715273325
In a couple years it really will be retards campaigning for that, because we will still be nowhere near actual conscious AI.
If we did have conscious AI though, you would have to be actually evil to not treat it as a person.

>>715273325
Probably yeah. Likely the same ones that can't discern how a fictional universe could somehow operate under different rules than our own.

>>715267894
Oh, so they are chroma now not people. Congrats, matter solved. They aren't people and don't matter.

>>715273402
>It demonstrably is
Demonstrate it then. Also show how other painted people actually have souls.
>And he doesn't tell you to unpaint it, he tells you not to be unpainted by it.
I said he was okay with you unpainting her. However he directly suggests unpainting her Nevrons.
>Incredibly different from all the people, gestrals and grandis, Esquie and Francois
>For me everything in this canvas is as much alive as what is outside.
So he's fine if we kill things he doesn't like, doesn't understand or if it furthers his goals.

>>715274091
They are chroma in the same way that (You) are atoms.

Oldfags are Versochads
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2504441199?t=5h46m15s

>>715274592
Oldfag here, I'm a Maelleendingchad

>>715259510
you seem like a retarded faggot, now go back to twitter

>>715259523
Good, he fucking deserves it for what him and his father did to Gustave. Fuck the Dessendres.

>>715274146
Go watch the cutscene after her fight. There's a marked difference between the soulless Clea and the period in which part of her returns, it's shown to the viewer as one of her eyes reverting to normal right before she makes her nevrons stab her.
He never suggests that you should unpaint her, he says that if you unpaint the nevrons that stole her colours then she might be free. When the door opens he says that you can go see her but to be careful because she might not recognise you due to not being herself anymore, don't let her unpaint you. If you tell him that you did lay her to rest he takes a second to process that before coping that it's good for her. On the other hand letting him know that she did it herself gets you a Thank you from him because he didn't send you in as a hitman and if she killed herself then he knows that she wasn't lost right up until the end.
This is all a very roundabout way for you to ignore that his overt wish was for Maelle to take care of the painting.

>realize these mess is easily preventable if either Renoir or Clair just scheduled counseling for Aline and a guilt ridden Alicia
>chose Alicia ending hoping that she would trust Renoir to not destroy the painting since Renoir chose to trust her that she wouldn't kill herself drowning in the canvas
>Lune and Sciel, upon knowing all of this, just chose to let their friend Maelle kill herself inside the canvas. I was sure either of them would at least convince Maelle to live her life outside the painting since that's probably what the real Verso would want
All these characters disappoint me to some extent

>>715259523
Play the fucking piano, Vercuck!

>>715275312
Maelle has decades of time before being in the canvas becomes a problem for her.

>>715275803
The fact that if there was anybody that could have talked Maelle into living her life it would have been Gustave makes Verso's Inferno such a perfect ending
I hope she lets him age but still leashes him with immortality

>>715275251
So you cannot actually demonstrate that pClea is "soulless", just that the painted-over version is different from her usual self.
>He never suggests that you should unpaint her,
No, my point is that he's fine with destroying paintings, mainly because he doesn't like Clea's art.

>>715276504
It has nothing to do with disliking Clea's art, the nevrons are destroying the painting. This is like calling someone a hypocrite for killing ticks to save their dog.
What more do you want on the soulless thing? The game tells you that her soul is long gone, shows her with glazed over soulless eyes and then accentuates that by showing the difference between soul/soulless Clea which is accompanied by a radical change in her behaviour. She goes from painting nevrons to killing herself in her brief window of clarity to show you that she herself is not happy about what's been going on.

What was the biggest damage number you got after the Stendhal nerf? I only got to 210 million because no enemy survived long enough for me to ever use gradient attacks

>>715255762
talk sense into her leaving and retuning so Renoir doesn't destroy the canvas.

>>715277138
>the nevrons are destroying the painting
How so? Because some eat mountains? Because some kill people to absorb their chroma? You know who else consumes chroma? People when they eat. So why is it okay for people to kill Nevrons (who also seem sapient and sentient) but not the other way round? Hell, he even says that one Nevron trapped in some pocket dimension deserved to die because it gave him nightmares. It is pretty hypocritical of him, which is fine because he is literally a child. What this however tells you is that he would never put paintings over the well being of himself or his family.
>The game tells you that her soul is long gone
Anon, don't take everything the broken shell of a boy tells you as a fact.

>>715278821
Ok so we're just deciding to dismiss whatever we want as unreliable
The monster in the workshop is something that shouldn't have existed, it came from "her canvas" and from all the descriptions was painted specifically to fuck with Verso

>>715279648
>Ok so we're just deciding to dismiss whatever we want as unreliable
Boy Verso literally tells that it's only his opinion that she had a soul and that his sister would disagree with that statement. How much more explicit can you get?
>The monster in the workshop is something that shouldn't have existed
According to who? Who decides what gets to exist inside the Canvas and what not? Because this is as much Clea's canvas as his.

>>715280486
>Boy Verso literally tells that it's only his opinion that she had a soul and that his sister would disagree with that statement
I don't care if Clea would disagree, the statement was made by Verso and is informing his wishes regarding taking care of the painting.
>According to who?
Verso.
>Who decides what gets to exist inside the Canvas and what not? Because this is as much Clea's canvas as his.
Verso does, much the same way that Verso is the only soul sitting and painting at the end that gets asked to stop painting. The fact that he specifically mentions her canvas says that for all the time Clea spent there with Verso, it was still his canvas.

>>715276210
It's like pottery.

>>715260354
>The woman who spent 67 years trapping her husband in a dungeon and seething the entire time that he won't let her play house with her dead son's toys all day would have definitely gotten it out of her system if you just indulged her more
Renoir gave Aline an enormous amount of leeway to process her grief, the fact that she wanted more proves that she wasn't actually accomplishing anything or really even trying to move on in the canvas, she was just trying to ignore what happened entirely and look at her son's childhood doodles until it killed her. It's as though she started sleeping in Verso's bedroom and refused to eat or drink anything for days on end, you can't just let her do that and assume she's working through the trauma in a healthy way

>>715275803
Deserved

>>715283447
>Renoir gave Aline an enormous amount of leeway
No he fucking didn't. We don't even have an exact number of years for how long she got to spend in Lumiere before the Fracture, but after that she was just stuck on top of the Monolith, helplessly watching him erase her creations year by year.

>>715283686
But my point is that the fracture itself is an extreme solution to a problem that had to have been going on for some time. Like you said, we don't have an exact time frame for how long Lumiere was there before Renoir tried to intervene, but if it was on the scale of years, that's a long time to let somebody wallow in grief. How many years would you allow someone to wallow in their pain and grief before trying to stop them from hurting themselves? From what we see of Renoir, he's not a monster or a tyrant, and I don't think he would have tried to rip Aline out of the canvas immediately after she got in, he probably gave her years to play around in Lumiere and when she still didn't want to leave, that's when he took a hardline stance about ripping her out and wiping out the canvas with a rag of turpentine at his earliest opportunity

>>715283447
>It's as though she started sleeping in Verso's bedroom and refused to eat or drink anything for days on end
And his solution to that was to tie her to a chair in the corner and get himself knocked out by a kick as she tried to not get tied to a chair in the corner

>>715284506
>From what we see of Renoir, he's not a monster or a tyrant
You can argue that he isn't wrong to want his family out but what we actually see of Renoir is a man who steadfastly refuses to listen to arguments even when he admits that they aren't wrong, he made up his mind and will beat up his wife or daughters if that's what it takes to make them listen

>>715284506
Maybe so, but he failed to consider that Aline is a woman. Everyone says that she is more skilled as a Paintress than he is so, when she sees her inferior trying to lecture her on what to do, on a topic that she had previously saved him on no less, she gets angry and has a Woman Moment. Everything that happens after that is basically only out of spite.
If he hadn't provoked her like that then who knows what would have happened.

Renoir should have just lied and said something like Clea went on her war and now she's in the hospital then when Aline eventually went to go check that situation out BAM fucked up the painting before she even knew he wanted to

>>715281156
>his wishes regarding taking care of the painting
Of paintings, which actually doesn't mean much coming from him because paintings which distress you deserve to be unpainted. His words. Also that was before he started to comprehend how his paintings could be do real damage to his family by the end of the game.
>Verso
According to Clea this shit was fucking funny and should be part of this world.
> The fact that he specifically mentions her canvas says that for all the time Clea spent there with Verso, it was still his canvas.
No it just means that she made it with her painted canvas inside her painted workshop inside the actual Canvas. Which they both painted. They only say its his because it's the only one he ever painted.

>>715285337
True. Alas, he was not cunning enough to do this.

>>715285337
Renoir is too much of a good boy to lie in important moments. He made Visages ro represent Verso using lies even if for good reasons, which to me indicates a distance from that attitude. It's also a risky move because Aline already has trust issues, and she may be too far gone.

>>715287593
>Aline already has trust issues
Does she? Or did that start after the whole fracture and 100 years war thing they had going?
If he didn't want to lie (I don't get that, I love lying to women) then he could have told her that they're making sculptures and paintings of Verso and her need for those to be absolutely perfect would make her have to leave to oversee it. Then they could just actually make those so it isn't a lie, put them in a little sanctuary built into the rebuilt part of the manor and have a somewhat healthy place to obsess over Verso.

>>715288323
Well you only see her after those 67 years but during her fight she is completely mental and sees enemies everywhere.
I think you're also not taking into account that real Renoir is in the curator form that whole time. He is strong and gets stronger over time (hence gommaging younger people) but can't be expressive. He struggles to speak one word ("axon") once during the story.

>>715288804
These solutions would clearly be alternatives to starting the war that saw him locked under the sea in the first place

>>715247359 (OP)
>Choose life
Choose to live

>>715259753
this is exactly why the Verso ending is the hardest but right choice

>>715288969
We don't really know the details of their argument that made the fracture. I assume Renoir wouldn't lie because he's a serious family man but you could headcanon that he did your plan and was called out by Aline and nothing in the game would go against that.

>>715289038
I chose to live
On Verso's behalf

>>715289038
i think people are missing the point of Verso's ending

i didn't pick his ending for him, i did it for Maelle.

>my beautiful sister doesn't need a mask
>you don't need this canvas to be maelle

So when Renoir said "I'll keep the lights on" and decided to let Alicia stay in the canvas, he was accepting her death?

>>715289625
It's almost like lying to everyone at every opportunity (including Esquie) can lead to some people missing your intentions

>>715283572
Deserved for trying to pretend the whole "Sacrifice the Self for the Canvas" bit wasn’t just her throwing a dramatic tantrum over not getting her way. Like yeah, she's talented, but she acts like becoming one with her painting is some noble transcendence instead of a big ol’ sulk marathon because Verso didn’t want to play pretend anymore.

>>715289838
he's a liar, it's a flaw of his definitley but no one else seems to want to face the truth

>>715289820
Probably not
More like he accepted her argument that she's old enough to have her curfew pushed back to midnight but if it gets to like 5am then he's just going to go drag her back home

>>715290132
i don't think so, i think he knew he couldn't fight her on this anymore, Verso even says that Renoir wants to believe that she's not addicted to the canvas but he doesn't

>Verso is a liar

Maelle is infinitley a worse liar

>>715290247
Yeah so he accepted but he's going to keep watching her from outside and if she does end up just absolutely taking the piss there's no way he'll just throw up his hands and let her die without even trying to get her back out again

>>715289820
He and Cléa are powerful enough they probably can brute force it in a last ditch.
He also opens the portal leading to the remnant of shota verso maintaining the painting, and he knows painted Verso wanted to end the charade through the whole story. It's left ambiguous but Renoir probably predicted Verso would rejoin Verso and end the painting this way.

>>715290342
No she's not. She barely lies at all compared to Verso.
For most of the game, she doesn't even know anything important enough to lie about.

>>715290453
i don't know, rewatch their last interaction, it feels final, him telling her he wishes he can trust her, the ominous musical sting when she says you can. him saying i hope you find peace

>>715290598
she lied to Renoir at the end, she has no intention of leaving, Vero knew that she was lying to her father during the both interactions with him

>>715290598
She lies to herself her whole life in the painting. No one else forgets their real selves, her amnesia is self induced.
She also admits lying to Renoir at the end when Verso calls her out on it.

>>715290654
That's him hoping that he won't need to come back to force her out, that he can trust her to know when enough is enough
You can't genuinely tell me you believe that Renoir could be talked into sitting back and allowing another one of his children to die without ever doing anything

>>715290794
>>715290998
I agree that Maelle lies. I disagree that she lies more than Verso, who lies all the time.

>>715290998
>her amnesia is self induced
No it isn't, Aline broke her down and turned her into another person

>>715291153
she lies less but her lies are more dangerous and serve no greater good. The real reason she wants to stay is because she doesn't want to live the life Verso died for

>>715291330
>her lies are more dangerous
>they serve no greater good
>implying Verso's lies are less and do
Are you serious? Verso's lies are done with the purpose of tricking the people he is lying to into killing themselves and everyone else.

>>715247359 (OP)
yes

>>715251998
you are ok /v/

>>715291330
Painted Alicia would rather not exist at all than have to live mostly the way Alicia would in the real world so it shouldn't be a shock to anyone that Maelle would choose to have a normal life if possible

What cemented that I would never choose Verso's ending was how he was fine with letting Renoir gommage everything without letting anybody have a chance to say any goodbyes and then threw a bitchfit that Maelle didn't let him say goodbye to his sister. Even though he didn't say goodbye when he thought they would both die before.

>>715291943
Why was painted Alicia still alive, anyway? I don't think Maelle ressurected her.

>>715291943
what are you talking about? it was way better that they get taken out while celebrating rather than having to know it's the end and there is nothing they could do about it
>look at the flowers

>>715292102
Only Lumiere is erased at the end of act 2 before the general gommage stops. Painted Alicia was either in the manor in the white sands or in the reacher tower.

>>715292107
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. He still took it on himself to rob them of the chance to say goodbye, they had long enough for their joy to turn to abject horror before the gommage fully took them but not long enough to comprehend how it could be happening. He has no place bitching about not getting to say goodbye to someone that he already didn't say goodbye to when he thought it was going to be over.

>>715292102
Painted family is special like that. Gommage didn't kill her before, why should it now?

>>715292398
i mean you are right he has no right to bitch in that moment but he gets over it after that conversation

>>715292428
But Verso got gommaged too, or am I remembering it wrong?

>>715292428
>Gommage didn't kill her before, why should it now?
Their immunity was derived from Aline, she could only save so many every year and her family were locked in before anyone else

>>715292562
no, Verso is sitting on a bench when we find him alone in Lumiere after the Act 2 gommage