Thread 715338863

>Shoots you
>Runs away
>Shoots you again
No, seriously, how the fuck do you counter this?

Maybe you should tell what game you are talking about, because it depends on the game.

*builds a castle*
*attrites you with longer range foot bowmen*
psh, nothing personnel

>>715338863 (OP)
its called a shield

>>715338863 (OP)
A castle.

>>715338863 (OP)
Fight fire with fire bro.

>>715338863 (OP)
Foot archers.
>superior range
>easier to train (only need to learn shooting a bow and not riding)
>can carry more ammo, and variety of ammo (flaming arrows)

Horse archers only do well against heavy infantry comps.

>>715338863 (OP)
Literally build the biggest wall in the world

Mounted archers only worked because they had better bows. Just don't have shitty bows and they go away.

>>715338975
Castles allow controlling supply lines. This isn't usually a factor in video games, because what the fuck are supply lines?

Wait for the head mongo in charge to die

ICBM

>>715338975
>raids your food supply
>builds a trebuchet
>raises a skull tower where your castle used to stand
how do you respond without sounding mad?

>>715338863 (OP)
Historically varies. The Russian at later date build tons of forts in the steppe to conquer Siberia, the Mamluks manage to use their tactics against them, Japanese and Indonesian live in an island, and Vietnamese live in a jungle.

>>715339164
Armies at the time very rarely had supply lines. They took what they could with them and looted the rest.
Castles also let you sally out of them and hit the enemy when he's vulnerable.

>>715339164
>what the fuck are supply lines?
Do you really want to tap into videogame supply lines?

>>715338863 (OP)
With an expensive campaign. You need your own cavalry, horse archers, as well as a well planned logistic. The strategy is to penetrate into their territory and seize their prime water source and grazing grounds. This is the only way to force them to either retreat further away or come to fight you.

>>715338863 (OP)
Why don't you just wear armor?

>>715338863 (OP)
By not falling for their feigned retreats and overextending your troops only to be flanked from both sides

>>715339219
*invests into research point generation*
*advances the era*
*invents guns*
*invents trains*
*colonizes you and leaves you forever humiliated, cucked and irrelevant*
what now chud?

>>715339306
>t. crassus

the rain delaminates their horn bows

>>715339261
>AI factions have infinite money
eh
but I am curious about that diplomacy update they're making

>>715338863 (OP)
Hoard all the food you can find and force them to eat their horses.

>>715339113
This won't work. They'll just get on top of it and use it like a superhighway system to raid your entire border more effectively. There is no successful example of a wall stopping such a force despite a wall being erected for this task. In fact, the example wall belongs to a country that was infamous for getting brutally pounded in every form of siege warfare from outsiders. It's safer to do the exact opposite: just build highways, like the Romans. Then drill a bunch of your own archers, and then intercept the horse archers at-will.

>>715338863 (OP)
castles, bigger bows like >>715338975 said

>>715339219
>>builds a trebuchet
literally doesn't happen

>>715339454
why is that servant so smug?

build some of these guys (while asking for them to be buffed)

>>715339560
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Xiangyang

>>715339635
He obviously knows something you don’t

>>715338863 (OP)
>No, seriously, how the fuck do you counter this?

Defensively.

Use caltrops or just dig a bunch of holes on the battlefield and let the horses break their legs then slaughter the riders after they fall off. Phalanx style shield wall tactics could help your infantry weather a barrage while your own archers fire back.

If they fight you on an open plain without any defenses built into it then you're pretty screwed although having your infantry carry caltrops that could be deployed as an improvised fortification would help; but you'd need to have a field of caltrops deep enough that they couldn't fire accurately

>>715339656
>xiangyang
luv chinese names, they're so funny
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chonchon_County

>>715339638
The Ming have those but they still jobbed to the Manchurian.

>>715339396
So far
The most important part for me has been the ability to steal ship blueprints

>>715339560
NTA but mongols were probably the most notorious users of siege weapons during their time.

They had entire squadrons of muslim engineers ready to break down any city.

>>715339560
Didn't they have Chinese engineers that knew how to build them?

Archer Kataphraktoi

>>715338863 (OP)
Just pray for a typhoon to destroy most of their boats before they even get to you.
Twice.

>>715339336
>Following the Battle of Maysalun, Gouraud went to the Tomb of Saladin, kicked it, and said: “Awake, Saladin. We have returned. My presence here consecrates the victory of the Cross over the Crescent."
same vibes

>>715339753
The Ming was having a civil war and flat out broke, you can give them 5 sets of gatling guns and they still won't survive. The Manchurians actually used the rally cry of saving their southern neighbour from their own rebels as an excuse for their invasion.

*throat singing starts*

>>715338863 (OP)
Sneak into his camp at nght, throw a dead, diesease ridden rat into their well, sneak out again.
Next morning when he drinks from the well, he will get diseased and infected from it and die.

>>715338863 (OP)
Battle wagons.

>>715338863 (OP)
>Arms and armor discussion on /v/.
>LE HECKIN SPEAR has not been mentioned yet.
I am impressed.

>>715340297
>took the whole of europe banding up to beat this
wtf

>>715340297
>Le heckin guns and stupidly oversized nunchakus.
Hussites were stupid.

>>715340183
>This one's for Charles the Hammer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcndCTgoXRg
thread theme

>>715338975
This.
I have never had a Ouija board in my house, and I NEVER WILL. There are just some things you should never mess with.

The more heavily armored knights did fine against the Mongols, the problem was they couldn't field enough of them in the earlier (and poorer east euro) invasions.
Same reason the Mamluks did well against them, except the Mamluks had pre-baked understanding of steppe shit like feigned retreat.

>>715340128
Weather wizard strat OP, British and Spanish both lost armadas to it.

>>715340128
You can't do that, that's cheating.

>>715339260
>Armies at the time very rarely had supply lines
Armies at the time often built up supply depots close to the enemy territory before committing to warfare. Some armies relied on looting, yes. Which is the exception and which is the rule? Looting isn't a sustainable way to supply an army.

>>715340214
>Ming jobs to the proto Qing
>the later gets a century worth of buckbreaking by foreign interests because lol paper tiger

>>715340670
>group of people is hardened by living in a harsh place
>gets fed up with being poor, bands up, invades china
>grows weak from opulence
>gets bullied by the next group of foreigners
tale as old as time

>>715338975
Interestingly enough, the Mongols specifically disliked the combination of european stone castles and crossbows NOT castles x bows.
Something about crossbows specifically irritated them, maybe it was the an archer with a crossbow didn't have to expose themselves from cover as much to shoot, or maybe the hungarians were using high powered crossbows that shot further than the bows in use.

>>715339112
>easier to train (only need to learn shooting a bow and not riding)
Not in practice compared to steppe nomads. The reasons the eurasian steppe nomads were OP is that every normie guy would practice archery and horse riding as part of his subsistence lifestyle to get food. Basically, Mongolians trained themselves in soldier skills for free so didn't have to be specially trained. So there was a huge recruitment pool of men with military skills.
Farming people that had archers usually had to implement some civil service system to force farm workers to take time out of their schedule to practice. When they practiced archery they weren't feeding themselves, so it was expensive. England did this.
>can carry more ammo, and variety of ammo (flaming arrows)
Joke response

>>715340670
Cautionary tale for every ruling power - keep a robust intelligence network on what other countries are doing - and that intelligence network only answers to you.

The Opium Wars should be discussed in every history class, the absurdities the Qing nation got up to were utterly outrageous, but completely logical when you realise how their understanding of the invaders were hopelessly paralysed by rigid world views.

>>715339560
Mongols had better and more advanced siege weaponry than Europe at the time.
There was no castle that could hold them.

>>715340481
Heavy Cavalry was famously bad against Mongols, read a book.

>>715338863 (OP)
you can't, not until you get gunpowder.

>>715338863 (OP)
>>715338975
Bros I wish civ 7 was more like civ 6
I miss this shit like you wouldnt believe

>>715339219
>sneaks into your camp in the middle of the night and burns down your trebuchets and poisons your ponies
man that was hard

>>715340565
Spanish should have known better than to sail down a relatively mild and tepid stretch of ocean and expect nothing to happen

>>715338863 (OP)
Wait for them to get stuck in the map's corner.

>>715341264
I'm sorry anon, but I think you might be wrong their. Heavy cavalry were apparently quite effective with certain contexts.
What book have you read on this subject?

>>715341046
what were their world views? yuros are retarded and uncultured?

>>715341330
Guns in medieval times are stupid, just like oversized nunchakus.
The hussites were stupid warriors

>>715339260
I looked into this, Mongols famously utilized supply lines. They had an entire decentralized supply system that allowed them to add looted supplies into their supply lines, completely blurring the distinction between having a supply line and relying on looting. It's not a dichotomy in their case.

>>715341483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Legnica

And this is just one.
Medieval warfare was complete disaster against the Mongol way of waging war.
They defeated the best army Europe could muster at the time; Moscovite Heavy Cavalry, Hospitallers and Templar Knights, without much casualties.
They just had better equipment, better soldiers... they were just better.

>>715341483
>wrong their
keke

>>715341786
if you actually read your own article it says the knights took barely any casualties

>>715339374
>Man who jobbed to Heavy Armor knights

>>715341786
not really, Poland and most of eastern europe are very flat with no natural barriers, which is ideal for horse archers to be utilized in their fullest potential.
the mongols struggled to push further west because the terrain gave them a notable disadvantage.

>>715341483
>>715340481
>Enemy field a army which tires faster than you, have less range, and on top of that have a baggage train
It turns out the same. If they separate from the baggage train, you loot.
If they don't, you go for the 2nd supply train
After that you can safely ignore them until they run out of food or time.

The reaason the Mongols are effective is that you can do both this, and loot the countryside at the same time.

>>715340812
Its more that 200-300-400 pound siege crossbows in combination with windlasses or any of the technology to repull them.
Out in the field you wouldn't really care, because the effectivity is really bad compared to good composite bows, meaning a 300 pound crossbow is only 100-130 pounds of peentration.

>>715341786
You didn't post a book like you encouraged others to read, you posted a wikipedia article.
If you read enough articles on wikipedia about the battles the Mongols fought you'll see that heavy cavalry were actually very effective against them, they just had to actually catch them.
The problem with the initial Mongol invasion of Hungary, which Legnica was a part of, was that the Mongols kept baiting the Hungarian knights into chasing them over rough terrain and then never stopping to actually fight them.
In most battles the Mongols were wary of getting too close to heavy cavalry, where their lightly armed and armoured horse archers would be vulnerable to a lance charge.

When the Mongols were defeated on an open battlefield it was often because heavy cavalry didn't get tricked by the Mongols' feigned retreats and instead baited the Mongols into getting too close; close enough for a decisive heavy cav charge that could actually catch them.

>>715342093
the cataphracts only finished him off, it was a horse archer rape first and foremost

>>715342112
These guys conquered Iran and middle-east with much more harsh conditions. Only in Egypt they hit the wall and bad.
Only reason they didnt conquer rest of Poland and go all way to west is the death of Gengish Khan back home.
Horse Archers were their bread and butter but not the defacto force.

>>715341552
It's the Mandate of Heaven things. Chinese saw themself as the center of the world and for milennias it was expected for other countries to kowtow and position themself as lessers to conduct diplomacy with them. The Brits ambassador refuse to do it and got expelled as a result. Things escalated from there.

>>715342323
>archers losing in melee.
>archers kiting melee avoiding sword range.
Gee, who would have guessed?

>>715340128
qrd?

>>715338863 (OP)
>crossbow line protected by line of shields
What now, faggot? All you've done is make yourself a bigger target that can't protect itself.

>>715342578
mongols tried invading japan twice and each time a powerful typhoon wrecked their fleet

>>715339396
>AI factions have infinite money
to be fair, I suspect most players would complain that some factions just flop before they even get to meet them.
And if they don't make the Hatikva bases "essential"... well, they'll need to figure out another way to introduce the baldie

>>715342578
Mongolians tried to invade Japan twice and jobbed to bad weather.

>>715342415
I don't buy that the Mongols would have utterly failed to invade further west as some believe, but the reason people say central to western europe was a bad environment for the Mongols wasn't because it was "harsh" like desert or mountainous areas in the Middle East. Light cavalry were the preferred native soldiers in the Middle east, so Mongols are absolutely not going to find it harsh, it's well suited to them.
The problem with Europe was it turns into more closed country with frequent dense forests and rives which could obstruct the maneuver warfare tactics the Mongols liked to use over huge distances. Also even the wetter soils: I don't think mongols shoed their horses, they might not have even realised why all their horses had become lame.

>>715341552
What this anon said >>715342423, but even more staggering.
The fact a country on the other side of the world could be so advanced was incredibly difficult for Qing to process. Thus there was a repetitive cycle of front-line commanders trying to inform the court of English military superiority - only to be met with accusations of cowardice and incompetence.
Qing being the centre of civilization was such an entrenched notion, that the official correspondence would refer to English forces as "rebel subjects"
In fact the Daoguang emperor didn't even think to ask his ministers about Britain until two years into the first Opium War (his question was: what is the closet land route to Britain?)

By the way, the First McCartney Diplomatic Mission visited the Qing Court in 1793, the gifts they brought included schematics for steam engines, trains, warships, the multi-spindle spinning frame. The Qianlong emperor dismissed them as vanity items. This was 40 years before the first Opium War

>>715338863 (OP)
Heavy infantry + heavy cavalry, that how the Mamelukes wrecked them, twice.
It was also how the Persians historically dealt with nomadic tribal invasions.

>>715338863 (OP)
buirld shitty wall

>>715343343
I sort of buy into the theory that the Mongols thought the Europeans were giving too much resistance. It's not that they couldn't have defeated Europeans, it's that invading Europe didn't survive a cost-benefit analysis. The terrain being less fit for grazing and political factors surely contributed.

>>715343348
>>715341552
>>715341046
>>715342423
My favourite what-if scenario is pretty much what if the Qing Dynasty underwent a similar technological leap to Japan going through the Meiji Restoration. It's quite possible that Imperial China would continue on to this day and that the KMT and CCP would never have arisen.

>>715344258
That's pretty much how I see it too.
They could have done it if they committed, but 1. they already had a huge empire with issues back east and 2. they lost like 10,000 dudes in the invasion and it was guaranteed to only get harder as they went, so weren't eager for a fight.
Then Succession (2018) happened.

>>715338863 (OP)
Deploy desolators.

>>715343343
You understand that China has forests too, more dense, more wet, and they conquered that area that was tenfold better defended with hundredfold of the population than Europe - without much of a fight (excluding the original siege of the capital and the Song dynastys resilence).

>>715338863 (OP)
Position my Rhodok Sharpshooter doomstack on a hill and win.

>>715344475
5 billion chinese by 2026

>>715339138
Shot through the ass, and you're to blame
Darling, you give war a bad name

>>715344498
One of the main theories also subscribes to the idea that the mongol army realized in Hungary that
>"whoops, this is a whole other group of people we're invading, let's regroup and chill for a bit"

>>715344475
For the sake of argument, if China successfully transitioned into a constitutional monarchy - I'm still not optimistic they could weather The Great Depression.
Ethnic tensions thrive on economic hardships, and communism would still find a lush breeding ground among the majority Han people under the minority Manchu rule.

>>715342658
First time Mongols got Tsushima and wrecked it to shit, they pushed to Hakata, where the met fierce resistance, but the typhoon ultimately finished the job.
Japan and the Samurai got their act together from all this and heavily fortified the area to never let it happen again. On top of that they actually changed their warfare and produced some of the highest quality of martial prowess on the planet.
When Kublai Khan was in his sunset years he got too ambitious trying to finish his grandfathers work. He wanted to build a navy and an army IN A YEAR to invade Japan.
The ships were built in Korea - and they had no chance to deliver a good product; the ships were complete pieces of shit - far from the usual technological advantage Mongols had. On top of that the invasion force was made from chinese heavy infantrymen, these guys really didnt wanna do the fight for Mongols, so the second wave of invasion was months late.
When The Mongols actually got into the shores of Nippon they faced highly discpilined, highly trained, highly prepared Samurai Gloryhound Warriors who all tried to up eachother how many ships they could sink or mongol heads they could take before their Glorious Death.
... and because the invasion was late the typhoon season arrived early and finished the job, again.

Cav niggers always get uppity, but why has no cav nigger civilisation ever built a lasting empire?
>Huns
>Didn't even leave behind any record of their own existence, everything we know about them today comes from Roman records
>Mongols
>Empire quickly kwabed after Genghis Khan's death. Their dynasty in China (Yuan) is one of the shortest lived dynasties in Chinese history.

>>715338863 (OP)
*hard counters you*

>>715339138
I do this and look like this

>Timestops
>Casts instant death that bypasses all defenses and immunities

>>715338863 (OP)
The horse archer bit is so misrepresented by pop history that it's just annoying at this point. The Mongols dominated through sieges, not field battles. Their unique logistics and usage of early canons are the reason they advanced so far, not fucking horse archers.

In the field battles they did wage, Mongols typically won by having three times the size of the enemy army and by feigning retreat for several days until the enemy forces had run out of supplies before counterattacking the broken up, outnumbered and worn down targets.

Despite all that, the Mongols themselves never completely broke past Poland. The only "European" area they ever conquered was the already highly fragmented and declining Rus.

>>715342646
Yea bro just wear shields bro the archers can't hurt you

>>715345172
Yuan was established by Gengish's grandson, Kublai Khan, and it made all the foundations of the future of China. Saying it wasn't lasting is kinda schematic, ignoring the true legacy.
From Gengish's Empire was burst out other empires too, like Temurlane and so.
>>715345173
Maybe the last place where you wanna be against Mongol army.

>>715344784
>without much of a fight
Yeah exactly. All the terrain you're talking about is further south than where they smashed the chinese forces to dust.

If Mount and blade taught me anything you either spam elite notIrish archers or notNorman heavy cav. Fians are preferred, because they also make sieges trivial.

>>715345531
The horse archers had a lot of logistical implications, though. They were an essential part of Mongol strategy as well as tactics. I think most people miss that part of the equation. It's the general mistake to think about tactics and neglect thinking strategy and logistics.

>>715345635
Yeah bro just ride horses the enemies can't shoot you or your horse

>>715345710
seemed to work for the mongols

>>715342578
神風

>>715345172
Because you listed nomadic empires that stay nomadic. Successful one like Ottomans and Mughal stop being one the minutes they have to actually administer their conquest.

>>715345682
Mongols used lances more than used bows. The lance was considered a sacred weapon in their culture. Mongol logistics were born from their horse centric nomadic culture. It had nothing to do with bows.

>>715345531
You're 100% correct, but it is how you say: people take history from pop culture.
It doesnt sit well on westerner to think that the medieval knighthood gallantry was a complete disaster and inefficient against them. It's not romantic, or noble - so Mongols had to be 'barbaric' and 'win by numbers' (which is untrue, Mongols fought almost every battle outnumbered).
They combined well what we call today 'soft power' with 'hard power'.

>>715345792
Seething contrarian.

what are some strategy games that have mongols, japanese and other asian countries in addition to the usual western countries?

>>715344784
I think you're assuming I'm an idiot or at best someone who knows a bit about Europe, but nothing outside of it and therefore am making assumptions China works the same way.

We could trade wikipedia quotes like every 4chan expert, but I can't be bothered.
It's my opinion that there's a big difference in that China was defending cities and Europe was defending military fortifications ("castles" if you want to be casual).
So China was, in my opinion, explicitly NOT better defended than Europe. The huge population was a massive liability that made them vulnerable, not stronger.

>>715345792
Lances are actually harder on logistics than acquiring arrows. I think you should try carrying arrows and try carrying a lance for miles. Any soldier will immediately understand what I mean.

>>715345792
now that's a take and a half

>>715345849
Is this an AI response? Mongols vastly outnumbered their opponents and they were stopped by Polish knights. They only ever defeated an already weakened Kievan Rus.

>>715345945
That's basic fucking knowledge. Holy shit you don't know the literal first thing about the Mongols yet you want to be in this discussion.

>>715345792
Low effort bait

>>715338863 (OP)
>Shoots your horse with a gun

>>715345968
>stopped
Didn't the Mongols manage to lure them with false retreat and encircle their army?

>>715344475
>t. average Cup of Solid Gold enjoyer

>>715345896
It's your opinion; which is wrong. But China had castles too, bigger and better than in west. That's why they also had better siege weaponry (at the time). Its why when Mongols captured Kaifeng they had access to better technology - being Chinese engineers.
The Mongols broke some of the thoughest nuts and fortifications on the planet, one being home of the Nazir (Ashasshhins) - you know, where the world assassins comes from?
Where as most of the western sieges at the Middle East (Jerusalem, Antioch and so) was most about sapping or doing maximum damage before scurrying away before relief forces.
>>715345968
Mongols hardly ever outnumbered their opponent.
And as stated here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Legnica
Polish Knights got their ass handed to them, and thats just one battle.
The western 'knighthood' was not good against Mongols. Not by foot or by horse, as Mongols had better weaponry and armor - and most importantly: 3 Horses for every soldier.

>>715345172
The mistake you're doing is assuming an "Empire" has to leave behind impressive stone structures, like the Romans. The Mongols had an empire, they either killed / raped / enslaved anyone they came into contact with, their legacy wasn't big impressive stone monuments but more of a genetic legacy and the legend

>>715338863 (OP)
Heavy armor and strong castles. Worked against the Parthians and worked against the Mongols.
And before the usual mental midgets bring it up: Crassus defeat was caused due to both his own logistical incompetence as well as the Parthian's own heavy cavalry. Their archers merely served to keep the roman army immobile for their cataphracts to do their work.
Horse archers on their own are fucking worthless.

>>715339112
>foot archers
>easy to train
This is bait btw. Archers are notoriously hard to train which is why there have never been armies that fielded 100% archers, they've always acted as support troops.

>>715346152
What ultimately defeated the mongols in Europe was heavily armored horsemen and fortifications. Light horsemen in contrast just got slaughtered by mongol tactics.

>>715345172
What if I told you the Aryanic people (or PIE peoples) were a cav nigger civilization.

>>715346809
Actually, they were a chariot CHAD civilization.

>>715346489
>>715346730
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Kalka_River

Heavy cavalry was one of the worst fucking moves against Mongols.
And there was simply no castle in Europe that could hold them.
Read a book.

>>715346386
>if we redefine the meaning of "Empire", the mongols totally had an empire
sure thing bud
any other words you wanna redefine while you're at it?

>>715338863 (OP)
Crossbows and armor.
Mongol expansion stopped in its tracks when Europeans started hunkering down with castles and levying massive armies of foot archers and crossbowmen to relieve sieges and raids.
Russia after breaking the Tatar Yoke even began invading and conquering former Mongol territories with success.

>>715346919
Retard, go read my post again.

>>715346919
I played CK3 I know how Empires work, and the Mongols can easily form Empires from conquering all those Central Asian niggers.

>>715341046
>has one of the worst rebellions in recorded history started up by some exam dropout after he gets a spot of divine intervention from the abrahamics
>follows up with another peasant uprising after the empire gets their shit kicked in losing their only standing navy and numerous provincial armies to their smaller neighbour
>nonstop fuck ups with court intrigue, state fund swindling and rampant drug abuse across the board
>followed by the eventual collapse and succession crisis that cuts the country into multiple warlording states with commies and the KMT coming out on top because the others were so dogshit at fighting
The whole thing is just a series of events that would wipe out other nations outright with how consistent they were. Like a rolling pain train that never ends

>>715346910
>However, during the initial Mongol invasion and the subsequent raids afterwards, heavily armored knights and cavalry proved more effective at fighting the Mongols than their light-armored counterparts. During the Battle of Mohi, for example, while the Hungarian light cavalry and infantry were decimated by Mongol forces, the heavily armored knights in their employ, such as the Knights Templar, fought significantly better.[47] During the Battle of Legnica, the Knights Templar that numbered between 65 and 88 during the battle lost only three knights and 2 sergeants.[48] Austrian knights under Duke Frederick also fared better in fighting the Mongol invasion in Vienna.[39]

Just a little excerpt for you to feel embarrassed about what you just said.

>>715346910
I read the book, and this came up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Mongol_invasion_of_Poland
You're just using a single battle for reference.

>>715346978
You said the mongols had an empire. They didn't.

>>715346869
Chariots upgrade to horsemen. They didn’t have sheep back then why would they have riding horses. If Aryanics had access to coursers they would’ve used them.

>>715347082
Huh, change a few words and you've basically described the Three Kingdoms era too.

>>715345635
>POV : They haven't stopped firing yet Crassus

>>715347229
Then what did they have?

>>715347304
It describes china every 2-3 centuries.

>>715345635
Yeah, and the Archers themselves didn't hurt them. The parthian cataphracts did.
And then Rome adapted by improving their own cavalry detachments to deal with parthian heavy horse and suddenly their horse archers were fucking useless. So useless in fact the battle at Carrhae remains the only notable victory Parthia ever scored against Rome, while Rome conquered their fucking capital more than once.

>>715338863 (OP)
Gambeson + chainmail can stop a warbow. Presumably the real advantage of using massed horse archers is being able to pick and choose which battles you want to take, and which ones you want to avoid. In a situation where you are forced to engage an enemy on any terms that dont massively favor you, i doubt they would actually be that good.

>>715347374
>>715347304
Unironically why is China like this? Is this just the fate of high-population countries pre-industry? France kinda had this and they were the China of Europe before they gave up in the 19th century

>>715347535
The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been

>>715347304
Like a modern rendition of the Three Kingdoms minus the baby throwing and wife stealing with a confederation of the Romans, Gauls, Goths, Britons and Heian period Jomon jumping in for a quick go.

>>715347563
And somehow Japan is always involved

>>715346519
He said easier you retard. A foot archer is absolutely easier to train than a mounted archer. They're both fucking archers, but one has to also learn how to ride and shoot while moving. The muscles and physique required for riding is not the same as that for shooting. Foot archers are easier, because they're specialized, and don't have to spread themselves thin trying to master different things, and train their body for multiple functions.

>>715344739
What game? That looks awesome

>>715347516
>Gambeson + chainmail can stop a warbow
Watch Tod's Workshop's yt videos of arrows versus armour.
Shields are barely usable against a warbow.

>>715347535
Yes it's just how big political structures are. The special thing with china is that they were contiguous enough to come back together repeatedly. Why this happened is probably complex but I'd say it's mostly just that central china is a bowl of hyperfertile soil surrounded by inhospitable and impassable wastelands on all sides. Makes it very easy to conquer internally but hard to expand out of or into (though obviously not enough to stop forces from either side from doing so many times).

>>715347759
medieval people didn't have the knowledge of multi layered armor and I suspect they didn't have the manufacturing to make more than a couple hundred, as curiosities

>>715347723
That's a retarded argument to make. It's like me saying it's easier to train a war pilot than a machine gunner. They're different things but not mutually exclusive. You could learn to do either, or both. Furthermore the Mongols came from a culture where every male learned to ride from a young age, the people they conquered generally had a very different culture.

>>715347516
>>715347759
>warbow
Just say longbow like everybody else you fucking nerds.

>>715347741
C&C Red Alert 2

>>715347842
A warbow is not necessarily a longbow, friend. There are all kinds of different warbows

>>715347535
Despite outward appearances there are about five different ethnicities at play during any one time spanning in the literal millions. Think Balkan autism scaled up to that number with just as much enslavement and foreign occupation involved. Shit is going to hit the fan when Chao Ling decides to take power one day.

>>715347827
>medieval people didn't have the knowledge or capability to make medieval armour
Please just delete your post and yourself.

>>715347842
He used it, so I replied in kind.
English warbow is a term though, because "Longbow" has been over-applied like "longsword"

>>715347893
>>715347953

>>715347563
This line went hard thousands of years ago and it still goes hard today.

>your radar doesn't detect it
>get bombed

How do you counter this?

>>715347453
the more i learn about these roman fellows the more impressed i become

Reminder that most of our history before about 10 years was most likely faked or heavily changed to hide what really happened before the mudflood.

>>715347759
I was referring to his videos where he tests chainmail + gambeson. The protection is significant. Armor works.

>>715348150
Why do history books care what I did to my toilet last night???

>>715348196
lmao
But thank you for making me see the typo in my post.

>>715348150
>*10k+ years
Everything has been downhill since the fall of the Hwan and Fingolian empires.

>>715348131
You’re learning, anon. It’s one of the most beautiful things you can still experience throughout your life. Pop history has ruined many people but there’s still plenty of places to learn a proper telling of events, and it’s very rarely as simple as, “this side dumb this side smart.”

Classic example is the Russo-Japanese War, where people claim the Russians were retards without accounting for stuff like the British actively jewing up the logistics

>>715347953
show me an example of armor with two layers of airgapped plate

>>715345173

>Sieges would be limited to critical or vulnerable locations; in other situations, the Mongols either left a blockading force, or simply ignored fortified citadels and destroyed the surrounding agriculture so that the remaining people would starve if they remained within fortified walls.[17]

Your next move?

>>715347941
>Despite outward appearances there are about five different ethnicities at play during any one time spanning in the literal millions
This is why I fucking despise contemporary racial politics. There's no such thing as "black people", "white people" or "asians", it's an incredibly reductive way of looking at an incredibly complex topic.

>>715348367
You dont need air gapped plate. All you need is padded cloth with chainmail on top.

>>715348369
Its gonna be really fun to sit in the castle when your relatives rotting bodies are raining on you.

>>715348127
God, I love that shape.

>>715339635
He's Amuro fucking Ray.

If the mongols were so influential and strong how come their only lasting legacy is a slur for mentally retarded people

>>715348369
You need to think bigger.

>>715338863 (OP)
deploy my self propelled walking fortress

>>715347535
That question is worth an entire university semester. Based on what I've read - it boils down to economy. Throughout history, China would repeatedly enter a cycle of growing population outpacing existing wealth. The resources (primarily arable land and its produce) would increasingly concentrate into fewer and fewer people. In turns this perpetuate a vicious cycle of wealth disparity, rigid class ceiling and social tension. At this point the powder keg can be ignited by a poor harvest, a seditious army commander, or foreign meddling.

And the reason that pre-industrial China keep running into that problem is because they relied on natural economy - they produced what they need instead of trading for it. AFAIK banks, tariffs, and entrepreneurship was very limited due to a traditional contempt of the merchant class.

>>715348807
Were the chinese compensating for something, or they were fending off aliens?

mongols stood no chance against western europe

>>715348797
Tbf mongoloid is a very powerful insult, you can't just lump it in with all the others.

>>715348797
Hey.

They also made a damn good beef.

>>715348980
>mongoloid is a very powerful insult, you can't just lump it in with all the others.
>implying
Leftoid, rightoid, foid, moid etc. Even those who claim to be against the notion of racial remarks will gladly spew this word out into the face of their enemies.

>>715348797
They were very influential among nomadic societies. After Genghis Khanb all steppe nomads were basically offshoot of them. Obviously their influence doesn't matter much among cityslickers.

>>715348797
>not their generational softpower through mongolian throat singing

>>715348369
Anon that's how all sieges were fought. That's just the history of dealing with big walls you can't easily circumvent. The castles frequently won.

>>715348127
>blocks ur path

>>715338863 (OP)
>Stand your ground and fortify it
>He rolls up to you
>Shoot him, which is much easier than for him to shoot you because of fortifications
Ez. Nomadic people were bodied out of existence by sedentary people every single time.

Also it's important to know, that all the dark ages tales about million sized all cavalry nomadic armies are extremely exaggerated. Nomads can't produce much food compared to farmers, and their populations are always small. They threaten farmers because they are fast and much more competent in warfare per capita, but the moment farmers turn into a proper state with dedicated military, it's over for nomads.

>>715349276
Name 1 time when the Castle won against the Mongols

>>715340183
>the victory of the Cross over the Crescent
>t.
That cross would have been on Hagia Sofia if not for those gloating fucks.

>>715348859
China existed in the same geographic situation that Egypt did; very fertile regions almost side by side with utter desolation. You can’t look at the Steppe as a growing field, it’s just a green desert.

And as we saw with the Egyptians, people in these regions fucking love stacking rocks.

>>715339396
They have infinite money but still have to move shit around.
Simulating the total pool of money available to factions would be pointless.

>>715349394
but think about MUH balance of power.

>>715338863 (OP)
>pay off locals in salted fish and olive oil to bury iron spikes in the ground
>pay off a similar steppe mercenary band to bait mongols into field of spikes
>fire arrows at resulting pile of injured horses
t. romans

>>715349349
Literally every mongol attempt at invading europe besides the very first. The balkans and eastern europe literally adopted the stronghold strategy in response to the mongols bodying their light cavalry based armies time and time again. Unironically read up on this shit if you actually care.

>>715345635
The romans forgot the "have your own bows" part of the equation.

>>715340128
Nice LCK build
However, check out my INT build

>>715349394
>Nicholas I attempts to evict turks out of Constantinople
>The whole Europe immediately gathers to stop him
>Nicholas II attempts to evict turks out of Constantinople
>Backstabbed by his own allies who cooperate with his enemies, deposed and killed with whole family, collapse of Russia ultimately results in collapse of the whole 19th century European world order, just to preserve dem turks in Anatolia
When you combine this context with modern day European immigration policies and ethnic/cultural attitudes, suddenly latter doesn't seem to be as strange and nonsensical. Someone on top really values those people in Asia Minor and Middle East, more so than their own.

>>715349679
I don't care about your generic fanfic I want you to name 1 historical example

>>715349394
Austria really should have joined Russia.
All that Balkan land could have been theirs.

>>715347838
>It's like me saying it's easier to train a war pilot than a machine gunner
A machine gunner is easier to train than a war pilot.

>>715349797
Even before that, Romans were obsessed with Egyptian gods and Parthian mysticism. Orientalism is a core facet of the European experience.

Yeah, like we need to consider how enamored Victorians were with the Near East. People fucking loved their silk and opium, not to mention the whole mummy craze and hunt for the source of the Nile.

>>715347535
It's also cultural. Chinese people live very selfishly and no one outside their family matters. Scamming is done on all strata of the society and it is seen that the victim is the one at fault for not catching perpetrators. As such corruption is pervasive through every Chinese government that has ever existed. Inevitably we see the people jump on whatever cult wants to overthrow the system no matter how stupid. Not that we don't see all this happen in other cultures around the worls but it never gets quite as bloody or insanely stupid as when the Chinese do it.
Maybe it's because they are also obsessed with "face" more than anyone else. Reputation is everything even to their whole identity as the Chinese people. It's impossible for anyone in China to ever admit they did wrong.

>>715349515
+ send scouts to find their camping spots,they have to have a provisory encampments for their volks otherwise everything would be a logistic nightmare and there you rot them out when they least expect it

>>715349797
>now the average roach is only known for a set of champagne chicken legs, Warband and the one off gunman from the Olympics
How the mighty have fallen

>>715350116
Romans or "Romans"? Immersion into Egypt and its affair resulted in Asiatization of European culture that was created by Greeks. First only cultural one, but eventually it reached the physiological level and they got arab emperor dynasty which did shit like giving all their brown brothas full Roman citizenship of bringing a black stone into Rome and telling white people to worship it. And after some timeskip here we are, with so-called "European culture" being based on asiatic religion that came from Middle East.

The most fucked up part of it, is that the sufficient wealth of information to realize this state of affairs was completely inaccessible to everyone but elites before internet became a thing. Unfucking it and restoring proper European culture without any asiatic shit will be a work for many generations, especially considering that "people" on top obviously won't like such attitude.

>>715350602
It’s impossible to separate the two beyond niche efforts, anon. It’s like how China pines deeply for the Han despite those days dying with the North/South Divide. I’d even go so far as to say the pining for a pre-corrupted age of your culture is a cornerstone of advanced civilization. You must cope to create.

>>715349470
Steppe Chineses and Egyptians were autists?

>>715350237
But that doesn't make sense. Russia is a corrupt shit hole rife with crime and "fuck you I got mine" yet China is a country of 1+ billion and one of the richest in the world with tons of industry, farming and renewable tech. Sure a lot of it is probably made up for stats or party approval but we can look with our eyeballs and see the stark difference in the two. And you can't blame communism because both of them suffered under it. If corruption and not caring about people other than your family is as pervasive as you say then China should be at the same level or below Russia but it just isn't. Or look at Africa or Afghanistan or something, same tribal mindset with corruption everywhere.

>>715348797
I dunno. Centralized goverment, paper money, printing press like 300y before west.
Pretty sure there are others too.

>>715349824
Cuz there isnt one, there isnt one from Middle-East either. You can find some examples from Song dynasty or Manchuria tho, but these dont count cuz they are in Asia.

>>715351450
>Russia is a corrupt shit hole rife with crime and "fuck you I got mine" yet China is a country of 1+ billion and one of the richest in the world with tons of industry, farming and renewable tech
Look up "privatization of Soviet industries".

>>715351450
like 60% of china's economy is a lie and the rest is propped up entirely just selling cheap labor and goods to other nations.
My impression is that China's rural population have an even lower quality of life than Russia, barely above India standards. Over a third of China's population is simply invisible and doesn't even know the outside world or what their government is even doing except when a posse shows up to tell them to stop growing food and rips up their crops.
It comes back around to the face idea though, even if they weren't communist right now they would still be selling this idea to you that everything is okay and better in China.

>>715351714
Talking bout mongols here, not the chinese.

>>715348797
>>715352872
Like half of China still calls him father chungus, probably has more direct blood descendants than any human in the past 1000 years. You might as well be saying Rome is only remembered for Lil' Caesars Pizza.

>>715338863 (OP)
>warmonger civ also has excellent Culture bonuses

>>715351450
Different times anon. Russia used to be communist USSR and at their prime had a massive economy and spies that infiltrated everywhere.

During this time, communist China was engaged in the Great Leap forward to show the world that overpopulation and obesity can be easily solved by state-enforced dieting. There was also the Cultural Revolution - it was such a fun time for the people that Khmer Rouge just had to share it with Cambodia

>>715353565
don't be ridiculous.
there's also a salad

>>715355116
The salad is named after a dude in Tijuana

They could have taken over all of the world, if plague and white European men with guns didn't stop them

>>715338975
>builds a castle
>gets besieged
>gets cow and human carcasses flung over the walls into your food and water supply
>everyone trying to escape is captured, tortured and flayed alive
>your only hope is the big tard of the horde saying we're done here let's rape and pillage somewhere else
psh, nothing personnel

>>715347723
>A foot archer is absolutely easier to train than a mounted archer. They're both fucking archers, but one has to also learn how to ride and shoot while moving.
yeah and the horse riding one has been doing it since birth while the foot archer has only been doing it for the past 2 months of conscription. Much easier right?

>>715355494
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9P0pvcEkhY&t=26s

>>715338863 (OP)
Engage in the mountains and hills where cavalry is next to useless. Avoid flat ground like plains.
Build stone castles that cannot be burned like wooden ones.
Do scorched earth tactics.
Recruit and train your own cavalry to counter theirs.
Use camels as cavalry (horses are scared of camels).

>>715355848
>Recruit and train your own cavalry to counter theirs.
this is what european nobility did and got btfo'd every time. They were simply not prepared or accustomed to steppe horde battle tactics like a basic bitch false retreat. They had no honor or rules to warfare

>>715355848
>Do scorched earth tactics.
This would literally only benefit the Mongol horde, being highly mobile they were able to gather resources from all across their vast empire, they had no need to rely on any specific parcel of land, they could just loot wherever they went. If you burned the fields down it would hurt yourself way more than it would hurt the highly mobile steppe nomads.

>>715355589
Levied archers preferentially selected hunters to fill the ranks.
The unwashed peasants carried the spear and pushed the carts.

>>715356124
sure, but there weren't enough hunters in all of europe to match the numbers of mongol horse archers

>>715345635
>”CRASSUS, YOU STUPID FUCK, THEY ARENT RUNNING OUT OF ARROWS!”

>>715355418
that's a lot of open empty space
what about mountains, lakes, swamps, densely populated countries or oceans? how do they conquer the aztecs? can they survive in below freezing temperatures for months on end?

>>715355848
This and get full plate armour and guns as soon as they're invented

>>715356265
I think there's enough, some peasants even recreationally practiced bowing because it was considered a prestigious skill.
The wolf in Europe were hunted to near extinction as testament.

Mongolia's problem was that there were not enough Mongolians, and that contributed to their slow expansion and eventual decline.

>>715355848
>Engage in the mountains and hills where cavalry is next to useless. Avoid flat ground like plains.
Good Nobleman, hide in your Cuck Caverns whilst we plunder and rape where we please :)

>>715353565
>probably has more direct blood descendants than any human in the past 1000 years
Just due to the way exponents work, any random farmer in the region back then probably shares just as many descendants.
Assuming a generation is 20 years, and people back then averaged 5 kids, the average person would have about 10^35 descendants. Since there are less than 10^9 people alive, its likely that everyone alive in Mongolia back in the day are ancestors of everyone in the general region now.

>>715339112
Literally everything you said is wrong. The bows used by steppe people, on top of being mounted and carried by momentum, traveled significantly farther than a sedentary archer using the same bow, and most cultures had a worse equivalent. Horse Archery was an integral aspect of surviving steppe life, so the average mongol needed less training to fulfill a military role than a Yeoman who only fired a bow occasionally for recreation before training. A horse can carry substantially more arrows into battle than a dude.

Horse archers utterly destroyed Light Infantry. Disciplined Heavy Infantry could survive an Assault but were useless strategically because Horse Archers could just avoid them entirely. The horse archer only became ineffective when firing lines of muskets and artillery were a thing.

>>715356836
>Mongolia's problem was that there were not enough Mongolians, and that contributed to their slow expansion and eventual decline.
I think it was mostly their "Empire" being a very brittle dictatorship that fell apart almost entirely the moment Genghis died. That and lack of any sort of administrative influence and governance over conquered land. It was sort of "theirs" and then it wasn't

It is hard. The steppes weren't conquered before gunpowder.
You can scare them off with fortifications though. The Mongols were the exception because they had Persian and Chinese engineers and were basically fielding complete armies based around elite nomadic cavalry, not them alone.

>immediately give up
>slowly turn them into femboys and have their political system implode
waaaaaaaaait

>>715358653
>immediately give up
>Get massacred
I like how the mongols had practically no morals, they used any means to win a war, they were masters of deception

>Before the battle of the Chem River in 1219, Subutai had his vanguard carry children's toys and leave them behind, as if they were a group of families fleeing from the Merkit. As a result of this deception, Subutai's army was able to surprise, encircle, and capture all of the Merkit/Kipchak leadership.[20]

>>715344865
Kek

>>715358795
They had morals. Deception in wartime is accepted nearly everywhere except in societies with ceremonial warfare (which doesn't last when actual war comes).
Their atrocities were also in line with their morals. They didn't think settled people were fully human.

>>715345124
eh you're heavily overrating the Japanese there, they weren't particularly well trained, there's records of them complaining the Mongols used underhanded (aka effective) tactics their rules of war didn't account for

they were individually strong but because their battles played out like a series of disconnected duels with the literally calling out of opposite side people for a "1v1 ME FAGGOT", they didn't really know how to handle cohesive unit tactics like the sino-mongols used

They also lucked out that like you said it was a rush job on the ships and that the mongols never managed to get a substantial army of horse archers across, which absolutely would have been a massive issue for the Japanese

>>715342415
>we would have totally conquered you, but we got busy
>it wasn't because we started losing battles at all
ok djengy

>>715345635
That was complete retardation on the Roman's part, not a representative battle.

>>715348797
They mostly just slaughtered muslims. They were clearly empowered by the Lord to punish those nonbelievers, that's why things went south pretty much immediately when they started getting into proper Europe.

>>715348301
Tell me again who used a Roman Emperor as a foot stool

>>715348797
their lasting legacy is basically all asian men wtf are you on about?

>>715351714
>printing press
Why do retards like you not understand what Gutenberg invented and why it was special? because some guy in Germany + "printing press" is your entire historical knowledge.
Protip: It was not pushing two rocks together with some ink and paper in the middle.

>>715355494
If only they had smart people like you around they wouldn't have spent hundreds of years building castles. They must have been stupid.

>>715358974
>they had morals
>their morals were lmao we kill you and your children
Great, anon. You really made a good point there.

>>715338863 (OP)
Prepare battlefield ahead of time by planting iron spikes on the ground and dig small trenches with flammable oil in them. Use longbows in trenches and have an underground network of supplies.

>>715345635
>YOU SAID THEY'D RUN OUT OF ARROWS

>>715360998
You still need basic levels of racism to tell the Asians that got conquered by them and those who don't apart, so you're wrong.

>>715338975
Didn't work for Chinese, didn't work for Kwarezim, didn't work for Novogrod, didn't work for Persia, what makes you think it would work for you?

>>715360574
The Romans didn't really have many decisive field battles against the Parthians because of the Roman reliance on Infantry meant they couldn't capitalize on field victories like the Parthians could. A campaign against Parthia was essentially just
>Survive their assaults during the march
>Harass their supply lines with allied cavalry
>Besiege and Burn down all their cities until they give up.

Even the most decisive Roman victories against Parthia or the Sassanids on the field don't mention particularly high casualties on their part when the Romans won, but when the Parthians won you get 50-100% Roman casualties and even dead and captured Roman leaders.

Knight sisters...owari da...

>>715362201
The katana gif for platefags

>>715348797
The most impressive thing about the mongols is that today, nobody cares that they were absolute psychopathic monsters a few centuries ago. Now they're those wholesome chungus dudes living in bumfuck nowhere who perform good at some sports and have funny types of music.

>>715362201
Kn*ght sissies is this real??

>>715355494
>gets cow and human carcasses flung over the walls into your food and water supply
I mean that is just not how sieges worked but you keep believing hollywood I guess.

>>715362304
>they were never forced to do a humiliation ritual for their crimes against humanity
>has a massive marble stature of Chinggis near the capital for the whole world to see
Pretty good considering they were just some shitter tribe from the steppe. Compared to the Cumans, Tatars and Xiongnu they're doing very well for themselves.

>>715356112
>scorched earth would benefit the people with no long term resources or stockpiles and hurt the people who do have stockpiles and strong castle walls
You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you.

>>715355927
>this is what european nobility did and got btfo'd every time
European Knights literally outperformed mongol cavalry in almost every single engagement they had while suffering almost no casualties to boot because horse archers don't do much against heavy armor, be it on foot or horseback. We literally already provided examples further up in the thread of this.

>>715362201
>Women still think bikini armor doesn't have its benefits

>>715358118
>The horse archer only became ineffective when firing lines of muskets
I guess I must have imagined the mongols/their descendants trying the same tactics in subsequent invasions of eastern europe as the first time and getting btfo'd every single time, all without muskets or artillery. The mongol dickriding will stop.

>>715362304
>>715362769
Because they are wholly irrelevant to the world

Just like Genghis was. So he raped and killed some chinamen. Drops in an ocean. His empire lasted about as long as a stick of juicy fruit gum and had the same staying power.

The mongols never went further. Not even one step. For all intents and purposes they are the same poor nomads they were when Genghis came. He did not leave Mongolia rich, successful, cultured, or powerful. He raped people and then died. The end.

>>715338863 (OP)
>wildshape into a horse
>let the archer mount you
>throw them off
>fuck them
Druids always win

>>715361527
...cause it literally worked for Europe.

>>715363117
>survived despite everything
>may even thrive through the power of memes
Compare this to their contemporaries and other nobodies across the world who will never own a slice of land they're doing alright for the most part. Your foods aren't filled with forever chemicals and you aren't a debt slave to another tribe with divine right.

>>715363607
You couldnt pay people to live in Mongolia. Its the worst kind of useless land.

>>715362201
Look at this new gif technology I just developed. It's delightfully ugly and inefficient.

>>715362947
>>715363062
Unfortunately, no, it will not. Chang will simply ignore every post that points out that he is wrong, just like the chinese always do

>>715338863 (OP)
Literally guns.

>>715362947
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe
>The traditional European method of warfare of melee combat between knights ended in catastrophe when it was deployed against the Mongol forces as the Mongols were able to keep a distance and advance with superior numbers. The New Encyclopædia Britannica, Volume 29 says that "Employed against the Mongol invaders of Europe, knightly warfare failed even more disastrously for the Poles at the Battle of Legnica and the Hungarians at the Battle of Mohi in 1241. Feudal Europe was saved from sharing the fate of China and the Grand Duchy of Moscow not by its tactical prowess but by the unexpected death of the Mongols' supreme ruler, Ögedei, and the subsequent eastward retreat of his armies."
now go ahead with your little gay cuck
>muh wikipedia
nope, not gonna pull out a Davies and give you the page and excerpt to prove you wrong.
>inb4 muh jew historian
yep, not gonna waste even a second more. You are wrong. I am right.

>>715364775
>wikipedia

>>715364817
thanks for confirming you're a little gay cuck.

>>715364775
Intentionally disregarding the difference between WW1 and WW2 to make a point about "World War Cavalry" is less erroneous than what you're doing.

>>715344475
>what if the Qing Dynasty underwent a similar technological leap to Japan going through the Meiji Restoration
It failed to do so precisely because of its politics, so it was never going to survive because of those same politics, of infighting, self sabotage, and refusal to adopt modern western values (which are necessary for any true technological modernization).

>>715345645
>Yuan was established by Gengish's grandson, Kublai Khan, and it made all the foundations of the future of China
This is hilariously false, the Mongols contributed virtually nothing to China before getting kicked out by a literal peasant

>>715360998
DNA samples suggest otherwise

>>715363197
Except it didn't Mongols only stopped because Ghengis died in China and there was succesion crisis

>>715338975
I like building castles right on the opponent's woodlines

>>715363607
Ulanbatar is the most polluted city in the world due to burning coal. Most Mongols also loot the coal. The Mongols write their language in Russian cyrillic rather than their own script from the times of Genghis Khan.

>>715338863 (OP)
Barbwire and potholes
Pssh nothing personal

>>715353565
>Like half of China still calls him father chungus
No they don't. There's lots of Chinese named Li (Tang royal family), Liu (Han royal family), Zhao (Song royal family), Zhu (Ming royal family).
There's a few named Jin (Qing royal family, Jin = Aisin Gioro).
There is pretty much no one named Khan in China. There are more Khans in Pakistan and in London UK.

>>715338863 (OP)
Vietnam defeated the Mongols so
Live in jungle
Hide in trees
Attack
Retreat
Repeat

>>715338863 (OP)
Having your own light cavalry to counter, see
Austria vs the Ottomans
Cossacks vs Tatar raiders
Cowboys vs Native Americans

>>715349498
Turks are more civilized than Russians. Just look at today.

>>715350602
The east was more advanced than the west until at least the turkic invasions. They were inventing algebra and optics in the Islamic world while the west had to import their knowledge later. We still call it "algebra" and "algorithm".

>>715352585
>like 60% of china's economy is a lie and the rest is propped up entirely just selling cheap labor and goods to other nations.
This could apply to a lot of countries, but especially Russia, where you can't trust the first thing that comes out of anyone's mouth. Even countries like Japan have admitted to overstating GDP.

>>715338975
>>715355494
what's a good game that has castle building while fighting off besiegers?

>>715351714
>Centralized goverment
China
>paper money
China
>printing press
Europe (unless you're talking about the Chinese version)
Mongols didn't invent shit and all their siege weapons were built by Chinese and Persians

>>715367419
Few points.
1. Genghis died in 1227, the disaster at Mohi was in 1241, Ögedei died in December 1241, the retreat you're (most likely) talking about happened in 1242. Don't mix up events.
2. This is a lesser known fact, but the Mongol army did not know about the death of Ögedei when it first retreated. This is documented. It might have halted further invasions, but it's not the reason they retreated.
3. There were multiple invasions in Europe, many decades apart. Keep in mind which part of Europe you're talking about and which decade you're talking about. The invasions in the 1220s are very different to the invasions in the 1240s and those are very different to the invasions in the 1260s and those are very different than the invasions in the 1280s. The Mongol empire finally fractured in 1294. It lasted for a long time.
4. Lessons learned from earlier invasions were documented and applied to great success in the 1280s. As they are documented primary sources, the lessons are way more trustworthy than your average pop historian.

>>715339219
All your siege engineers are in China tho.

>>715340323
erm did you know that the spear is like basically the only weapon that has ever existed in fact they still use the spear today because when you think about it a gun is just a spear because it fires really far (like how a spear extends really far)

>>715362201
Whenever I see samurai two handing a sword I imagine what a Roman javelin volley would do yo their ranks. Are these samurai and spearmen formations the same ones that were expecting to beat the Mongol invasions?

>>715368505
Stronghold

>>715368745
Ill believe it when I see it

>>715368773
Most casualties for samurai armies did in fact come from arrows.

>>715367989
Degenerate britoid hands wrote this post

>>715368773
shields are a meme, sorry you had to find out this way

>>715355107
CCP arent even close to the khmer rouge in terms of how fucking stupid you can be. God everything about them was fucking retarded.

>>715367959
>Nips receive two free typhoons to assblast their slave fleets on the coasts
>Champas and Viets played a proto version of the Vietnam war with a side of scorched earth tactics despite being two separate nations at odds
>Thais straight up insults the Khan by fucking his envoys and gets away with it

>>715339260
>Armies at the time very rarely had supply lines.

>>715370262
>spend all your time fucking with your population with half brained social experiments
>entire army collapses in the space of two weeks when you start fighting someone that can actually shoot back for once

>>715362642
Japanese chuds...
https://youtube.com/shorts/sSaUi9HTV-o?si=k9myJYBDG6MuZTZO

>>715370751
Using the Roman Empire as an example for feudal era warfare is cheating.
Recently I've been reading a book about the raid on Kolberg. A 4 day excursion of 400 some kilometers by around 1000 horsemen, which is way more indicative of the warfare of the era, not a literal exception to the rule.

>>715338863 (OP)
>>715338975
>brings the castle out to you
Oh sorry, were you trying to shoot me from your little pony? that's cute.

>>715338863 (OP)
What the fuck is mongolia even up to now? I imagine they're just some poor shit hole country with few allies and a population that just uslessly wanders the grasslands unable to purge and rape like they did before

Think of it like China but with far less manpower and less financial means. Trying its best to catch up, but with a very, very empty hinterland.

It's unironically an interesting country, esp. if you include Inner Mongolia which belongs to China. A mix of Soviet-era urbanization, traditional pastures, and a bit of what's been built since the 90s.

>>715372525
>>715372810
quoting hard