Thread 715464012

What happened? When did the Horde outnumber Alliance this badly begin? How did Blizzard not do anything to try and make them equal?

Do they even care? Let me guess their “simple fix” will be both of the factions becoming friends and everyone being able to party and raid together with no one at war unless it’s the big bad of new expansion.

Alliance has gnomes.
And alliance are just fags.
But it's mostly just gnome association

Alliance became gay and retarded

Imagine still talking about a game a decade after quitting it and barging in like an old man to complain about something fixed years ago.

horde simply attracts the more skilled players

I only played the demo back in like 2009, but everyone I have talked to that played back then told me that alliance is the boring faction and you're a prissy faggot for playing them.

Blood Elves?

it flipflops depending on the expansion. early days horde had better racials, then it switched to alliance, now its back to horde.

>>715464012 (OP)
Alliance
>human 6ft
>human 5'11ft
>human 5'10ft
>purple human
Horde
>Orc
>Tauren
>Troll
>Undead
I wonder why

>>715464012 (OP)
casuals choose race after what they thinks is cool or wants to play as
try hards picks the race and faction with the best racial skills

>>715464818
Ppl all play blood elves in Horde

>>715464223
>>715464240
Enjoy your mud huts.

>>715464905
>>715464513
Alliance have elves now.

>>715464012 (OP)
>What happened?

>>715464995
night elves are gay and suck

iirc blood elves have a aoe silence as a racial. this is op as fuck in pve and pvp.

>>715464012 (OP)
>What happened?
blood elves
>When did the Horde outnumber Alliance this badly begin?
the point of no return for faction balance started roughly around cataclysm when some chucklefucks at blizzard decided demoralize alliance players at any and every opportunity they got
>How did Blizzard not do anything to try and make them equal?
blizzard never gave a shit, factions only mattered in PVP and the only PVP that mattered was Arenas where faction doesn't matter lol

>>715465010
>>715465103
Void Elves exist on Alliance.

>>715465010
Blood elves were a fucking mistake.

they're all playing as girls because they have agp

>>715465404
>void elves
don't care, give high elves

>>715465404
yes, but at that point some solid 90% of people already had their established guilds and friends on one side of the fence

>>715464012 (OP)
They dont have to be equal, forcing equality leads to trash like the current west you live in

>>715464012 (OP)
more brown and trans people started playing

>>715464818
2/3 of horde players play humans with glowing eyes

>>715464012 (OP)
as an alliance fag, almost every cool race they've added is for horde
worgen was the first and last time the faction got anything remotely interesting

>>715464012 (OP)
Furries and Furry adjacent. Vulpera was a dam break moment.
>What about Worgen or the Dragon folk ( I don't know the name of that race and don't care)
Doesn't count because they're transformations which for most /fur/ aligned doesn't cut it.

>>715464012 (OP)
Pretty sure it's because various Horde races at one point or another had racials that were stupidly over powered. I know Blood Elves in particular where one. But Goblins had the speed boost that people where race changing to at some point just to have. Blizzard took to long to balance them resulting in people trying to parse race swapping to whatever was broken at the moment.

>Because of this most guilds focused on getting world firsts would go Horde.
>Then meta chasing retards wanting to be world first autists would go Horde so they could be on the same factions as the already existing world first autists.
>Then even more retards would see that the top 30% of players on every most servers would go Horde so they felt the need also do it to potentially play with that top percent of players. Even if they were dad gamers who never would reach that level.
>Then people would see that 60-70% of a server is Horde and if they didn't also pick Horde they would just be screwing themselves with having less guilds, less players for groups, less everything on Alliance.
>Not to mention that if you played on a pvp server it only exasperated the issue as now if you picked a pvp server that had a 70% Horde pop you were just setting yourself up for a constant ass fucking in any sort of overworld pvp since you would always be outnumbered.

are they still doing monthly subscription? Sometimes I think "i could check out my undead again", but it usually doesn't sound worth it.

>>715464012 (OP)
I only play undead.

Horde doesn't have a racial as skillful as Shadowmeld. Meld also happens to be on the most attractive race.

Tipping point was late Cata/MoP. High end community began to gradually move over, then as the overall population got smaller, it just made more sense for the raiding community to consolidate on one side. The 2 faction system makes less sense if you don't have the in-game population to support it.

Horde racials gave a legitimate (though mall %) boost that only top players were utilizing, though as more guilds and players moved over, it just became less viable to play Alliance regardless of the kind of content you were doing.

>>715466280
you can also pay with ingame gold for game time

>>715464012 (OP)
>Blood Elves introduced to try to fix faction imbalance
>As the game grew older meta faggotry spread and it was discovered that Horde generally had better racial.
Both of these.

>>715464223
>Alliance has gnomes.
And Horde have Vulpera.

>>715464012 (OP)
Early on Alliance was the de facto best faction to pick.
Blizzard recognised this and overcorrected.
This made Horde better, which caused the metawhore guilds to switch, which caused the metawhore guild wannabes to switch, which eventually unbalanced the faction populations, which caused casuals to just pick Horde because ‘everyone plays Horde now’.
Also Blood Elves.

>>715464012 (OP)
metafaggotry ruins literally every multiplayer game

>>715466624
There is no real META in WOW.

>>715466413
Shadowmeld is just gimmicky and rarely useful by itself outside of maybe wipe protection in a dungeon or something.

>>715466553
>Horde racials gave a legitimate (though mall %) boost
When people were stacking Blood Elves to spam mana torrent for its silence effect the boost wasn't small at all, that was a strat Alliance just straight up could not do.

>>715464012 (OP)
WoW always was Horde biased, whether you like it or not. Developers always preferred Horde, worldbuilding was also always biased towards Horde, and community is also biased towards Horde (Alliance being sweatlord, normies, or newbies, while Horde would be the fun crowd that you'd enjoy spending time with most)

Horde racials better by far.

>>715466949
this
>horde players get to quest for like 20 levels in the barrens
>alliance players need to flip flop around 5 different zones

>>715464012 (OP)
>What happened?
Blood Elves.
Now I love Blood Elves but they cannibalized the other Horde races.

>>715464012 (OP)
sex with fem humans

Alliance is just gay, they have never produced anything close to chaotic or memorable as the vanilla era barrens chat

>>715466904
>literally the most theorycrafted game in the world
>there's no meta tho

High Elves when?

>>715464012 (OP)
Faggots want to be faggot elves. Faggot elves are horde.

>>715464012 (OP)
The Horde was always better, the only reason not to pick them was that all of the Horde races were hideous. Once the Blood Elves showed up that became moot.

>>715465949
I think it was a BFA fight where blood elves could trivialize a raid boss mechanic, right?

Shadowmeld can drop casts, it can drop chase mechanics (Fenrir in Halls of Valor), it also has some frames of immunity in pvp (Meld blind, scatter etc) or at least it did idk I haven't pvpd since cata.

I'd much rather use shadowmeld than PRESS BUTTON GAIN DAMAGE, that's the entire game. There is 0 creativity in WoW. Every single trinket is PRESS BUTTON GAIN DAMAGE. Shadowmeld is the master race.

>>715464425
>Method were an alliance guild in vanilla times
>As soon as they switch to horde they start dominating every race
Funny thing is that in vanilla, alliance legit had the better racials. Horde were more skilled at that point in time.
After that, horde ALSO had better racials as well as a more skilled playerbase. No wonder alliance completely died out.

>>715466949
You didn't play classic. Original wow was mostly Alliance

>>715466904
Wrong. WoW is most overanalyzed game where you have to stick to meta or else it's a no go, the game mechanics with gameplay are always overanalyzed to the point people only focus on meta and nobody wants to experiment because developers couldn't design the game properly and entire progression is based on fomo with how devs feel like at the time, which specs and class they feel like nerfing or buffing. If you play anything that isn't meta, you'll get bullied by everyone and told to fuck off.

>>715466904
>mfw trolls destroyed ToT
>mfw KJ destroyed alliance priests
>mfw trolls destroyed Jaina

>>715467318
I played both Vanilla and Classic Vanilla. The game is a Horde always was go-to side that would be both most pleasant to play on and would have best community. Alliance would be either sweatlords or normies, and it would never be as fun.

>>715467056
>Make a race that's far sexier than any other race.
>"WTF WHY IS EVERYONE PLAYING THIS RACE?!"

>>715464012 (OP)
Half of the alliance races are ugly. Used to be the other way around. Gnomes, even dumber gnomes and fat humans appeal only to contrarians. Also female dwarf beards fucking ruined any small shred of sex appeal that race had. Even playing a male dwarf makes you a faggot who enjoys bearded women.

>>715467645
*is about Horde and Horde always was

>>715467171
>the only reason to not pick the horde was all the horde races
Retard

>>715464012 (OP)
Herdies are the most deranged so they're the ones left paying for this absolute joke of a burning shitpile. Alliance players have lives and families they've had to focus on.

When are they going to make elves a neutral race?

>>715467649
I think Blood Elves are great but it's sad how much people want sexy instead of cool.
Taurens are cool.

hi this is me

>>715468481
Alliance players are either children or trannies. Horde are mainly autistic retards and furfags.

>>715464425
>horde simply attracts the more skilled players

>>715464012 (OP)
Racials are globally better Horde side.
This pushed all true autists on the same side.
Then casual getting roflstomped by those true autists decide to switch side to win too.
End up with everyone on one side.
>b-but they rebalanced racials
Probably 6 millions times by now I guess. Damage's was done long ago and there is no healing it beyond giving some fat massive bonus to join the underpopulated side, which most devs would never do.

>>715468975
rocket jump is so insane. having an instant mobility is unmatched in raid.

Do people really still play WOW?

>>715467103
>>715466904
the problem isnt that there is no meta but that 95% of players are so bad that it doesnt matter whether they are playing meta or not but still ferociously ape the top players and create social pressure for others to do so
https://youtu.be/BKP1I7IocYU?t=884

Horde has vulpera, the master race of azeroth

>>715469256
Even bigger problem is game's design and how bad the developers are. Blizzard never properly playtests games material which leaves classes with specs either weak as shit or overpowered, and within time they fully embraced FOMO with FOTM which led to lots of balancing problems (like MoP Warlocks being really fucking OP or paladins in TBC and Vanilla being almost useless everywhere except healing)

BTW next expansion is adding high elves

>>715468975
Racials like this were a fucking mistake and even private servers are fixing this issue.

>>715469601
Didn't they essentially make it so that you can be a high elf with void elf customizations?

I don't know why they were so fucking obstinate about just adding those regular blue-eyed fuckers. Maybe before BFA, where adding races had some "weight" to it, but we've got a million allied races at this point.

>>715470357
High Elves are literally just Blood Elves that stayed loyal to the Alliance, there's not much reason to add both.

>>715464012 (OP)
>>715464425
>TBC adds Belf's with their Strong Racial and Bloodlust
>Hardcore raiders over to Horde for the slight bonuses
>The economy that surrounds raiding follows them over
>Wrath failed to address the issues because in truth it was still just a slight leaning
>New players see that the Horde has more players and so stuff going on and join that faction
>Each new expansion even after fixing the imbalance mechanically never did anything to offset the raw player amount bonus for playing Horde
>Over a decade later that slight imbalance has grown to a huge one via the gravity of the playerbase centralization

You can't even really fix this nowadays because the culture and lack of limitations around toons means that even if the alliance gets broken raiding racials or some shit the hardcore raiders will faction change until its fixed, but the resource train and by extension the ease of getting resources via the larger community will just mail what's needed over.

TLDR
Advantages=More people playing that side -> More Players=Easier to get shit done -> More Players= Even More Players

>>715470513
Except that people want them. Can you say they're a worse option than DEI gnomes?

>>715464012 (OP)
Alliance has three variations of humans and black elves. The Horde has four different flavors of monster people and white elves.

>>715464012 (OP)
>>715464223
This
Your choices for race are
>Humans
>Small humans
>Smallest humans
>Furry humans
>Fat humans
>Elf
>Some blue bitch

>>715469256
This video sucked and it ignored some extremely basic aspects of social interaction to basically just make an extremely long winded whine about how he's a good player and how other people should just be like him.

>>715464012 (OP)
which faction has the most sexy furry bitches

>>715470996
People did want mechagnomes. How the team somehow misinterpreted that as cripple gnomes is another issue entirely.

>>715471984
alliance only has 1 furry race, one that they share with horde

I think female neflies are sexier than belfs

>>715472109
then i guess that perfectly explains the chart

>>715472183
Okay.

>>715472109
werewolves sir

>>715464012 (OP)
Metaslaves
Troll racial is best for pve dps

>Humans look like shit
Gee, I wonder why Aliance has dwindling numbers.

>>715464818
alliance was more popular in vanilla

>>715464012 (OP)
Blood Elves were a mistake.

>>715464012 (OP)
>When did the Horde outnumber Alliance this badly begin?
tbc

>>715464012 (OP)
A mixture of a lot of things. Because there wasn't any cross faction content to speak of everyone basically had to choose a side. If your realm funneled everyone Horde just so they actually play with a decent population you were fucked. Racials kept taking the lead over each other and at some point Horde ended up having the better racials and much more necessary ones for high end players. Now, apart from dark iron and regular dwarves, and night elves, there isn't really much reason to not be Horde. But with cross faction and cross realm guilds being introduced over the last xpacs, the population is shifting back. Now people can be whatever they want, either a prime slut or a meta race.

Blizzard's idea of faction balance was entirely based off of feeling involved. Are you Horde or Alliance!? PVE metas outweigh PVP metas and overall player desire. Being Horde or Alliance was intrinsically something that only worked well when MMOs were actually a social game. Which means at some point it became a major issue when Blizzard themselves stopped catering towards the social aspects of the game. Players shifted their priorities from getting to know everyone, to just trying to fit in and follow the crowd to actually play the fucking game with people. Which means factions became a limitation and not something meant for meaning or immersion.

>>715464425
Currently in r*tail every Mpligger is a dwarf and every PvPigger is a nelf because of their broken racials

>>715464012 (OP)
>elves vs elves

>>715464012 (OP)
First three expansions had Horde with insanely broken racial abilities
Anyone that cared about raiding or pvp would roll Horde, and bring their friends to also play on Horde
It just snowballed from there ever since

>>715467206
Yeah that was when they changed the blood elf racial from an aoe silence to an aoe purge, on the same patch where they introduced a raid encounter with a mechanic requiring a ton of things to be purged

having op racials is by design so blizzard can nerf/add new op ones so entire guilds buy race/faction transfers

blood elves and allowing horde to have unmatched pvp racials across the board
>but muh EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF

>>715471168
no one played horde until they got elves

>>715464012 (OP)
When Horde racials ended up being giga BIS for high end PvE content. So around Wrath.

>>715480762
>>but muh EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF
>gets nerfed 4 times in a row

>>715471168
the horde was the minority until they got belfs, now belfs are like 35% of the horde population

>>715465404
cringe

Good horde racial
>free dmg trinket and pet dmg trinket 25% chance to ignore a stun (the most used cc in pvp and pve)
>free haste trinket (most op)
>free hp increase and stun
>free aoe silence and resorce generator
>free fear cleanse and immunity for 10 seconds (the most used CC against players besides stun)
Good alliance racial
>free snare/root cleanse (not an immunity so can be re casted on you)
>1% free hit for everyone in your group

Orcs alone are the most op race

>>715467056
what the hell is wrong with her face? that's not the original art

>>715480762
>>715480940
Will of the Human wasn't as big a deal because it was only busted in PVP, which nobody cares about.

>>715481191
>which nobody cares about
>blizzard nerfs into uselessness
okay

>>715481250
After what, like 10 years of just ignoring it?

>>715481174
>what the hell is wrong with her face? that's not the original art
it is

>>715464012 (OP)
Not only did people think blood elves were the most aesthetically pleasing race in the game, but Horde in general just has better passives that contributed to a lot of their progression.

Yes, nowadays you might see people rolling a night elf just to sweat and cheese some M+ shit, but those are very unique, tryhard cases. People would still rather play Horde because their racials actually have game changing effects in raiding (and PvP). Keep in mind that Horde guilds were commonly getting world firsts for years, so this also made the general playerbase want to play as Horde as well. Alliance, from a gameplay point of view, is pretty fucking awful.

>blizzard gave the horde a pleasant looking race and better pvp racial to attract people to the horde
>realized their mistake years later
>people have been playing horde for years and would rather not swap
>new people simply goes to the faction with more people making the population issue even worse
>alliance is pretty much dead with no way to fix it
>blizz allows cross-faction m+, raids and pvp to keep the little alliance there was kinda happy

>>715464818
>green human
>furry human
>blue human
>dead human

>>715481813
>m+, raids
the problem there is that most Warcraft players don't engage in mythic+ or raids. they rather just finish the msq and logout till next expac

>>715464012 (OP)
When people who look like pic related started to play WoW.

i know this is a bad thread to ask but what's the best way to (re)play the warcraft games? i guess they remastered (?) 1 and 2. did they ever fix reforged or should i just find my wc3 disks in my garage?

>>715479371
>>715476943
>>715470912
>>715479809
Faction preference is determined mostly by logistics and economics: with a populated faction, it's easier to form groups, easier to prepare for raids, easier to manage guilds and recruit and easier to rack up $$$ (gdkp raids and boosts). Horde racials are good, but you can raid fine without them. It's just "parser mentality" and people who read guides to become metaslaves want that 1% boost (even if their playstyle is poorly optimized) - it gives them confidence. Even if you are Alliance, hardcore raiding is not impossible, but it comes with another boss fight - roster boss - RLs fear him, and we have what we have: gravitation towards Horde in WoW Classic. Increased player centralization and lack of cross-realm and cross-faction support even further increase imbalance. I have played WoW in the past (TBC/LK OG), I had main on Alliance and an alt on Horde - and I was able to find a guild to play with just fine. Initially I chose Alliance because of friends, not because I personally wanted to be in that faction, and a lot of players probably did the same thing. Now meta gaming dictates the play, and people choose Horde, so you have a guarantee to have a spot in a raiding guild of your choice to gain the results you want.
Racials are cool, but having more people to raid with is cooler.
>>715469252
Yes but mostly because of nostalgia/unfulfilled dreams. I don't know people who are interested in modern WoW or a modern MMORPG, the concept is outdated.

>>715482067
yeah, which is a big issue to the alliance since there are the minority of players and only a fraction of those players do real content (m+, high pvp, heroic/mythic raids), crossfaction was implemented to save whatever remains of the alliance players

>>715482152
pirate the GOG versions of 1+2 and pirate a pre-deforged version of 3. Yes it's still fucked. Blizzard doesn't deserve your money.

>>715482152
I think you should pirate the games so you can have experience closer to the original. There were changes to the game (patches), I have not played Reforged, but it may use the latest patch.

>>715482152
>did they ever fix reforged
no, is playable but thats it
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXSEYMA0-I

Blizzard never being transparent with the faction balance on servers or making any attempt to actually encourage a balanced playerbase was the only thing more retarded than having factions in the first place.

>>715482152
The remasters are awful.
Use dosbox and the refurbished patch for WC1
https://github.com/joelek/wc-refurbished
and get WC2 Combat Edition from war2.ru

>>715464012 (OP)
They had to add blood elves to horde to make it more appealing.

>>715482152
>i know this is a bad thread to ask but what's the best way to (re)play the warcraft games? i guess they remastered (?) 1 and 2
they used AI to remaster the graphics, they are awful, just pirate the games

>>715482279
>>715482287
>>715482375
>>715482395
>>715482481
thanks pals, super appreciate it. the answer is about what i expected, but disappointing nonetheless. i'll snag some copies from somewhere.

>>715482168
When I think of people chasing meta racials I just think of how Blizzard recently introduced the rotation assistant one button spam and how even with the negative effect making your cool downs longer it is still effectively better at dealing damage than like 85-90% of the playerbase. Especially in a spec by spec case where something like BM hunter only loses a few percent damage off their perfect damage rotation. A handicap button plays better than people that actually chased specific races for reasons other than just trying to be in the faction everyone was in on their realm.

>>715482067
Couple things about this:
How was this data optained? Armory scraping or people using their database addon? If it is Armory scraping, how do they know if it's an alt or not? I used to have every class at max level, but only did progress raiding on one, I alone despite being a progress raider would have counted 1 to 11 against raiding.
>10%
Feels high to me honestly. WoW has millions of players, and I suspect the vast majority of them just quests and does dungeons 'n shit. Fun fact: While I was doing mythic raiding in a top tier guild, every time a world first happened, you would find some fag on the forum going "the game's too fucking easy now, it's all for casuals, look how fast the final raid boss got killed", you'd click on their profile and you see "heroic 8/9, mythic 1/9" And it always baffled me that people who can't beat the content as is, whine that the content is too easy.
Imagine getting the shit kicked out of you and going: "I wish this pussy would hit harder, this isn't even a challenge for me", while bleeding from the eyes.

Honestly. How did we fix WOW?

>>715464012 (OP)
>Troll
>Mage
>Fire

Yep, it's gaming time

Does anyone honestly even play as the robot gnomes?

>>715483845
>>715483845
no

>>715484028
it’s actually kind of shocking all of the new races that are ugly like the fat humans or the robot gnomes. I have no idea why they were added into the game. They had to know that no one was ever going to play them.

Instead of added a race that people always want like ogre or high elf they add in these stupid fucking races that no one asked for, and no one even plays.

>>715484135
nobody would play ogres either, lets be real, current wow players just pick the cool or pretty races

>>715484028
>all those race possibilities
>make dwarves(stone)

>>715484339
>>make dwarves(stone)
they are half stone, they are not even the cool earthen

>>715484339
>People ask for Earthen since Wrath
>Finally happens
>They're nothing like Wrath Earthen
Meanwhile
>Still no Vrykul
>Still no Ogres

>>715464012 (OP)
Horde has better races. Simple as

>new faction is dwarves for both factions
alliance KEKED even harder

>>715483362
>WoW has millions of players
anon, the game only has around 500k active players. The rest of the players dont play, they instead only stay subscribed because of nostalgia

>>715484516
>500k active players
kys blizzard shill, game has barely more than 150k players

>>715484405
>>Still no Ogres
I will never understand this, they even introduced Tauren sized Ogre NPCs. People have wanted it since BEFORE launch

Is this where we pretend like Horde isn't getting assraped in BGs

>>715478482
The fuck it was, I remember Horde outnumbering Alliance (because I also remember how obnoxiously smug Horde players were towards "vanilla" Alliance players).

>>715478482
>>715484903
Wouldn't it really depend on your server?

>>715484903
it was, it was confirmed by blizzard, thats the reason they gave belfs to the horde, one of the complains was the horde was made up of only ugly races
Also, some servers might have more horde players

>>715484596
i don't like blizzard either but the numbers dont lie.

>>715472109
>alliance only has 1 furry race, one that they share with horde

>>715484405
they are just like earthen
Wrath didnt have earthen, it had iron dwarves

>>715484903
>because I also remember how obnoxiously smug Horde players were towards "vanilla" Alliance players
If you picked the side with all the generic fantasy races then you deserve to be bullied

>>715485020
>numbers dont lie
>shows a tweet that says they went from 3.2 to 1.7 from 8 years ago
>wowhead achievements
>discord
just kys shill

>>715485046
how do i get werewolf gf world of warcraft 2025 site:4chan.org

How does /v/ do it? Even with all its flaws it still manages to maintain a level of quality far above the other media boards.

>>715485046
Worgen exist to knot Alliance women.

>>715485020
>random achievements are what active players are based on
based retard tranny

Worgen players are either degenerate furry retards or new players that find werewolves badass. The latter will exclusively play Blood DK and named something like Dæthhówl

>>715485312
>>715485339
Have you tried just beeing yourself

>>715485046
i forgot, my bad
still seething about their shitty animations

>>715485330
We used to fucking love this game. We are attached.

>>715484516
This doesn't count people who raided and didn't kill anything.

>>715485519
i'm always myself
that's the problem

>>715485687
then have you tried just beeing somebody else?

>>715464012 (OP)
Alliance are the only plot relevant ones since BFA,, they straight up gave up giving horde any storylines. At best they pick a random horde leader (aka thrall or baine) to stand silently in the background of group shots.

>>715485893
i'll be you then
im going to skinwalk as you and eat meals at your family table and you will be outside the window regretting ever making this suggestion

>>715485514
Hey I might be a furry retard, but I am not a degenerate

>>715485514
Actually I specced frost.

>>715486096
That's OK, I've got enough savings to make it on my own until you get bored (you will)

>>715486389
i'm already bored
sorry about your boring life bro
you can have it back

Will WOW ever be popular again?

>>715464012 (OP)
WoW is a troon game, and the Alliance is the faction of the racist chuds, while the horde is the faction of diversity, tolerance, furries, and homos. So of course the Horde is outnumbering the Alliance.

>>715468975
Leveling an undead warrior in the vanilla servers was so damn smooth, because of cannibalism.
My gourdmandise was proportional to the satisfaction of my exp rate.