How it started...

>>715498174 (OP)
...How it ended

i dont get it

>>715498623
Maximize the images to understand it

>>715498783
i put 200 hours into elden ring i have no idea what the story is

>>715498174 (OP)
>hire GRRM to help with your lore
>lore is two standard deviatons worse than bloodborne, arguably worse than dark souls even

>>715498174 (OP)
Elden slop is dogshit

HOW DO I BEAT THE EVERDARKS

>>715499003
A single mother lets her children run wild and undisciplined. Some of those kids try burn the house down, others get into drugs and move away and some try to steal everything thats not nailed down.

>>715499003

>>715498174 (OP)
DAE kinda hate Malenia?
She seems generally popular and people are sympathetic for her, but playing the game, I just end up really hating her from everything that I see.
What she did in Caelid is genuinely as evil as the Frenzied Flame or the Dung Eater. And we see throughout the game monuments or forts set up in her honor that make her look like a warmonger or brute.
A monument to the time she made Godrick kneel at her feet in submission. A monument to her armies being able to do whatever they wanted. And at the Shaded Castle we have the ghosts calling her a Harpy that betrayed them in some way.

I generally just think that the game doesn't give us much reason to be sympathetic towards her. And if anything makes her look worse than average.

>>715499003
It's a sideplot in the main game. "Lore" implied Mohg was gay for his sibling, Miquella, and had kidnapped him and did some nasty shit.
The DLC took this as it's main story, but flipped the script and said it was Miquella that did the nasty shit to Mohg, plus brainwashed him, ripped his soul out of his body, and put Radahn in to be his gay incestual divine consort so Miquella could become a super-god. Or something.

>>715500475
I know it's a meme but how do people not immediately see how retarded it'd be (even more than the lore already is which is saying a lot) if Miquella had Mohg kidnap him on purpose?

>>715500557
It is retarded and it makes sense at the same time.
Retarded for obvious reasons, like him not telling his own sister what he was doing.
But it makes sense because Mohg's blood magic and powerful omen body were both key parts of Miquella's plan in the end. The blood magic let Miquella open a portal to the sealed shadow realm. And his body was a perfect vessel for Radahn. Either Miquella is extremely good at improvising, or he had a larger scheme from the start.

>>715499004
Miyazaki is retarded, he decided to make the evil bitch who is responsible for the shattering war the tsundere waifu uwu bait. GRRM might not be a great writer or anywhere close, but Miyazaki is a mental invalid who should never be in charge of storytelling.

>>715500557
It makes sense in the context of Miquella really, really wanting Mohg's B(ig) O(men) C(ock) but hating his personality. Elden Ring, a love story.

>>715500719
It's really, really stupid either way, but I prefer the improvisation PoV (which I still think is extremely contrived and has a ton of holes) since at least Mohg as a character still retains most of his agency. I fucking hate that people unironically think the sadomasochistic blood cult man was actually good all along because he got charmed, despite how the charm has never turned people into mindless zombies.

>>715500719
>>715500916
Miquella built the Haligtree and cocooned himself in it for no reason.

>>715500868
Ranni was responsible for the Shattering, in that her actions were the last straw that finally set Marika off, but Marika was primed to tear everything down way before that.
Using Godwyn as a sacrifice to free herself of the control of the Two Fingers was bad, but compared to what other demigods do, she's on the less bad side of the spectrum.

>>715500719
>>715500931
Forgot to add that it's clear they wrote the epic twist of "Miquella was duhhh evil mind control twink all along!!!!" first without any regard to how badly that botches the tragedy surrounding the Haligtree and how much of a fucking moron it makes Miquella appear to be, or just making logical sense with his base game lore

>>715500986
He has a history of starting projects and abruptly abandoning them. I figured it was part of his eternal nascence. Like a kid whos really excited to ply wiith his new toy but abruptly abandons it for the new shiny thing.

God I wish I was mohg so fucking bad. Imagine that femboy brainwashing you and using you as a cocksleeve and you can't do anything about it...

>>715501039
She is one of the most evil demigods in the game, and that's clearly how Martin wrote her. Miyazaki decided he found her hot so we all have to suffer through her being eternally invincible and a potion quest that goes nowhere and her being able to instakill you because he was determined to make it illegal to allow the player to stop her in any way.

>>715501226
I wish I was Mohg so I could pound that twink hole with my big horny dick.

>>715501226
>he wants to be mohg, not radahn 2.0

>>715501150
Except for the consort plan, which he never abandoned despite it being his most difficult and convoluted plan of them all. Like he literally spends however long it was since the Shattering doing fuck all in the LoS. The nascense bullshit about him being cursed to fail is pure lorelet nonsense, he practically fails upward into godhood

>>715501150
>He has a history of starting projects and abruptly abandoning them.
I love how after the DLC the Miyazaki mongoloid cope is 'the character who is described as a genius in the lore is actually just retarded'

>>715501229
Yeah, thats gay. I wish we had a rotten Ranni fight. You are forced to kill everyone else except her, who you cant kill. id side with Rykard if the option existed. We could devowahhhhh tha verry godssssss togethaaaaahhhhhh

>>715501226
>>715501289
It's funny how the exact same anons screaming tranny in every thread will make faggoty posts like this. You are not welcome here.

>>715501406
>schizo brain post

>>715498174 (OP)
>>715498194
>>715498783
How come Eldenring/Nightreign has so much cutesy fanart compared to other fromsoft games?

>>715499003
It's very simple:
>Female leadership is worse than nuclear weapons.

>>715501328
>>715501334
They really went in a weird direction with that DLC. I still say it should of been all about Miquella trying to bring Godwyn back to life and fucking everything up and only the Tarnished can fix it. Make Miquella an NPC like the little painter girl from DS3 who you can talk too, the endfight is Death God-Godwyn stealing him to eat so you have to rescue him or something.

>>715501475
It just has a lot of fanart. Period.

>>715501229
>she was one of the most evil demigods in the game
Not really?
Godrick was a degenerate stealing random body parts from everyone in the province.
Morgott was a brutal tyrant religious extremist that at least is trying to hold the world together from falling into total anarchy.
Radahn was a warmonger and then became a rabid dog and then became the muscle behind a world mind-control plan.
Malenia killed 1/5th of the continent and before that point was a powerful and violent warlord.
Miquella wanted to become a God and instate global mind-control to force world peace.
Mohg ran a violent blood cult.
Godfrey committed at least one successful genocide and was the muscle of a violent and cruel woman who threw her own children in the sewers.
Marika committed multiple genocides and was extremely violent towards her own children.

Ranni just killing her half-brother in a ritual suicide is pretty low on that scale.
Radagon is also relatively low, as far as that goes.

>>715501565
Forgot about Rykard, who is just obviously literally Satan.

>>715501640
He just fed himself to a big snake. Rykards a family man with a family plan and wants you to be a part of it, how is that wrong? Seems like a stand up guy, if you ask me.

>>715501702
I don't think that family should be close enough to taste each other.

>>715501565
Ranni created an undead plague that is spreading across the entire world like a cancer and has absolutely no interest in stopping it. She murdered Godwyn for absolutely no reason, since Miquella demonstrated that you can shed your flesh and great run without a Satanic murder ritual. Ranni has absolutely no motivation beyond being mad at god for the evil shit that she does.

That is more evil than anyone on that list except Marika.

>>715499003
man who can become a girl for real decides to have sex as both a man and then as a women then his chidren get mind raped by an alien except one

>>715501791
to be fair, the miquella point is a function of a completely fucked up DLC shitting on the lore in multiple ways

>>715498194
...AND JUSTICE FOR MOHG

>>715501756
I think of him as a hillbilly.
>I PROTECTS MAH KIN!!!
Hes just chilling in his goon cave up on Deliverance mountain.

>>715501891
Yes, further proving that Miyazaki is a mental defective who has no business being in charge of storytelling, but the lore is what it is.

>>715501901
our boy beat the alligations! Mohg life, lambkins

>>715501475
Greater focus in interpersonal relationships makes it easier to come up with cute comics

>>715501791
No one expected that Godwyn was going to become a cancerous mass that was eating the entire world.
You can't blame someone for a consequence of their actions that was impossible to predict.

Regarding Miquella, we don't really know if he has any conflict with the Two Fingers in his actions.
His method of becoming a God and taking over the world Order is not inherently all that hostile to the Two Fingers or the Elden Beast. Miquella does use incantations that are Golden Order aligned, for example. If anything, he's as good of a candidate for them to support as Marika herself was before. He isn't a Fundamentalist like his father was, but he isn't hostile to the Fingers or the system, from what I see in the game. He just wants to replace Marika, who the Fingers already hate.
That is all very different from Ranni that actively hated the Two Fingers and Golden Order and wanted both eliminated. To the point that the Fingers explicitly activate Blaidd's sleeper agent codes to kill her. She didn't just need to shed her body, but the entire sway over her that the Fingers would have. Like they used on Marika.

>>715498174 (OP)
>>715498194
The plot of the DLC ended up being so fucking stupid

>>715502079
>You can't blame someone for a consequence of their actions that was impossible to predict.
"Who could have predicted that this Satanic murder ritual that used my heroic, holy brother as sacrificial meat for my ambitions would have consequences?"

>>715501948
I liked all the lore from the rest of the soulsborne series, I blame GRRM for this abortion.
Like, the stars being horrific nightmare monsters and unfathomable outer gods trying to invade the world was pretty cool, its just everything else that sucks. Mohg was pretty cool before the DLC. He was spurned and turned to the one thing that showed him love, a nightmarish lovecraftian horror. The rest of the stuff was just weird and didnt click for me. The obsession with fingers, wtf is grafting?, Why are all of these ultra powerful beings just sitting around not doing anything?
I get the shittering wars were fought to a stalemate but with Radahn being a mindless animal on an island, Rot-Crotch hiding in a tree, you'd think now would be the perfect time for someone to do anything.

>>715501328
He abandoned all his other plans because they failed
>Reviving godwyn was a failure, his soul was obliterated
>the Haligtree was also a failure, his blood wasnt enough to make it as glorious as the crucible/erdtree and the rot and other maladys slowly consumed it
Radahn was his one project that was actually successful, until he died.

>>715502590
They should of let us consort Miquella and start the 1000 year age of compassion. Instead we got a used up, cold sexdoll.

>>715502335
>I blame GRRM for this abortion.
I don't, for the very simple reason that if you have read GoT, you know that for all his faults, GRRM is incredibly talented when it comes to creating compelling characters with complex personalities and motivations. Yet somehow, in Elden Ring, the characterization is complete garbage. Miquella after the DLC being a prime example of a character who is so fucking confused and contradictory that I'm pretty sure even Miyazaki couldn't tell me why he cocooned himself in the Haligtree if his plan was to get kidnapped by Mohg the whole time.

GRRM gave Miyazaki the template, and Miyazaki had no fucking clue what to do with it.

>>715502659
it was made pretty clear that Miquellas age was going to be a repeat failure just like his mothers because he didn't learn anything from her mistakes. We had to kill him to save the world.

>>715502752
There is an ending where you kill every living thing on earth.

>>715502808
well thats up to player choice. And it was never going to be possible to join Miquella and Radahn because you're an agent of the Erdtree and essentially a potential rival lord to their order.

>>715500206
Fake. Radagon and Marika have always been the same person from the start.

>>715502725
>if you have read GoT
I have and now that you layed it out, your probably right. That entire DLC was a shit show. I didnt like the lore from the base game but It still mostly made sense, everything goes out the window in SotE. Its like they were halfway through making it and decided to rewrite the story or something.
Whats with Messmers abyssal snake eye? Why is this shit never explained at all, in the slightest. At least in DS/BB their were reasons for the weird shit happening that made sense once you put all the puzzle pieces together, in ER I feel like they took that puzzle and threw half the pieces away and painted over the other half.

>>715502964
If the game wants to control my character through second person motivation lore it could be less dogshit about it.

>>715502972
"O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self."

>>715502964
You could shoehorn in some bullshit like after beating Radahn, miquella divests you of grace so your a free man and able to join him or something. Idk, if you can frenzy flame the world or ride the moon with ranni then you can join Miquella.

Funny how no one ever bitches about not being able to team up with any of the other bosses in the game, almost like all the whiners really just complain because Miquella gives them a boner.

>>715502590
>Radahn was his one project that was actually successful, until he died.
It was a project that he had barely any control over and suceeded due to random chance. The Haligtree might've not been able to grow into an Erdtree, but it's never stated whether it failed on its own or it was due to the rot or his removal from his roots. Either of these causes were entirely preventable if he wasn't retarded and didn't cocoon himself for no reason. The notion that fate is conspiring against him doesn't hold water if his failures are because he's a dumbass.

>>715503194
Ive bitched about not being able to join Rykard in this very thread. In previous threads ive said I wish you could join others. You Stoopid?

>>715503427
not joining rykard makes sense. The serpent isnt interested in an order, its going to consume every thing and every god (including you)

>>715503194
I feel like the game would have benefitted from a covenant system where you could ally yourself with any of the demigods who are still sentient (possibly even with some of the ones who aren't) against the others.

Elden Ring suffering radically from how disconnected your character is from everything. It's so half-baked that you are banished for no reason, then summoned back, and suddenly you're supposed to just do whatever the goddess who just treated you like human garbage asks of you for no fucking reason.

>>715503567
It makes the same amount of sense as burning the entire world with the frenzied flame. At least this way you get to be TOGETHAaAaaaaaa

>>715503574
>I feel like the game would have benefitted from a covenant system where you could ally yourself with any of the demigods
That would of been amazing. Imagine bringing about Mohgs dynasty? I can see it clear as day...Mohgwyn..

Who were the big giant dudes down in the eternal city? That one giant ladys skeleton is sitting in a chair.

>>715503793
yeah but thats only from you winning, losing to a boss so they get their ending is lame

>>715502229
Yeah, people should have predicted that Godwyn would have turned into a plant-mermaid-man hybrid that spread himself through the entire continent and created an entire race of skeleton dudes.

>>715504448
Make it an ending so when your sitting on a ME3 style different colored chair a big snake eats you. It would be better than what most of the other endings got.

literally how do you even find any of this information. I refuse to accept explanations of souls stories without direct sources

>>715503105
My dude, the tarnished is Marika's sugar baby, Miquella and all the other demigods were never going to trust you since they know she sent you to the lands between specifically to fuck them up.
The only exception to this is Ranni since she renounced her claim to godhood.

Tranny shit

>>715504787
Sure that's what the Tarnished start as, but you're allowed to exterminate all life and turn everything to shit (literally) I don't think what Marika wants matters. Enia tells you directly that the whole thing is bullshit and to just do whatever you want

>>715504361
The silverfags' avatars or something that they wanted to use as gods but didnt because zanzibart n shit or whatever assfart this game calls this sad preschooler essay a story

>>715504932
I sorta regret asking. Man, the lore is shit.

>>715504679
Ranni was an evil, selfish bitch who did evil, selfish things and it hurt the world. Women are masters at avoiding accountability, though.

Is Bloodborne PC fairly easy to set up and get working now? last time I tried it wouldnt properly load and would only show a black screen. I tried for like 5 hours to get it running before I gave up. That was when it first came out

>>715502972
Eventually the same person is accurate. See >>715503143

Godfrey must be sick of all the shit.

>>715508291
>Dancing Hornsent spotted

THEY DESERVED BETTER OKAY

>>715502139
Yeah, but did it subvert your expectations? That's the most important thing! Don't want your story to be predictable, right?!

So who was the gloam eyed queen?

>>715509181
They dont say. At this point id suspect it was Godwyns alter ego or something retarded.

>>715503190
>get heart stolen
>arena becomes non combat zone and you can start miquella's age of kindness ending
>or you can go to St Trina to get some poison that'll allow you to shrug off the mind control and restart the fight
>once you kill Miquella you can gather his soul and put the discarded parts of him into that huge ass bowl to reconstitute him in his original self, convince him how dumb his plan was and you get the original abandoned age of abundance ending

>>715504697
Sit in chair, cut to the erdtree being constructed by big snake. I can see it being cool. Alternatively the snake swallowing the elden beast while you and team rykard chant chug chug chug

>>715509467
>while you and team rykard chant chug chug chug
It could have been so based. Rykard gives you a few nights off with an Abductor Virgin as thanks before you let yourself get eaten, becoming part of a greater being. All the other bosses just want you to die, Rykard seems like the type of bro that would let you have a few days off before getting back to work.

>>715498174 (OP)
I never trusted him

>>715509335
See, this guy gets it. Anything other than what we got would of been awesome. Its like we got the worst option of all.

>>715507718
They were forced to become one because of the shattering, correct?

>>715498174 (OP)
The rest of the lore may be good or stinky but Radahn coming back was so humongously stupid that even now it's baffling. Seriously what were they thinking? Were they trying to subvert le expectations because everyone wanted Godwyn?

>>715511076
>Were they trying to subvert le expectations because everyone wanted Godwyn?
It really makes no sense and I cant fathom why they did it lol I guess just to fuck with everyone? Why not Godrick? He survived your encounter and grafted himself onto miquella in his cocoon. It would be slightly less retarded than radahns soul getting shoehorned into mohgs body for reasons

Whats with the Garden of Eyes mod? I know that fag wants to charge money for it but is it any good?
>Piracy is here for a reason.

>>715502590
>>Reviving godwyn
Miquella never tried to revive Godwyn. This was always a shit theory
Miquella tried to kill Godwyn

>>715504361
The Moons.
They are vessels created through asceticism to convey spirits into the Moons of the underground Eternal Cities
They are exactly like Miquella's old body

>>715500719
>Retarded for obvious reasons, like him not telling his own sister what he was doing
You are making this up because you can't accept the Battle of Aeonia was staged
Malenia was fully aware of what Miquella was doing.

Malenia quite literally states that now Miquella is awaiting Radahn before using Scarlet Aeonia

Anyone who has issues with SOTE just doesn't like that the story didn't validate your headcanon. You constantly project YOUR OWN theory and when it doesn't fit you assume the game is wrong.

>>715500986
>Miquella built the Haligtree and cocooned himself in it for no reason.
The Haligtree cultivated Unalloyed Gold in the same way the Erdtree cultivated Marika's Gold

>>715513491
are you the ensha guy?

>>715511076
The lore was never about Godwyn revival in the first place and only special brands of stupid thought that.
Miquella made a sword of Order with the Litany of Proper Death pose to KILL Godwyn
>>715513863
Yes, the >140 IQ guy who knows the lore

>>715499171
use wylder

>>715513932
>Yes
thread/over
Too bad. I was having fun reading this.

>>715500206
>someone had sex with Malenia 5 times despite the rot
Wish it could've been me

>>715502590
>abandoned all his other plans because they failed
No, this is a complete fabrication. Some poorly showhorned headcanon spread through Reddit that only contributes to further misconceptions.
Miquella's only failure is stated in game as the inability to revive a Soulless Demigod body to life, Ensha's body, to accept Radahn's soul.
Miquella had created a Carian sword of Amber to bestow to him but the Ritual of the Church of the Eclipse failed.

Ensha of the Royal Remains is a nightfolk (like the silver tears found in the path of the Haligtree), dressed in corroded golden bones and protecting the Haligtree by spying on the Roundtable Hold.

The Haligtree was never a failure and is nowhere stated to be a failure. It's the process to create a Lord that failed.

That's the same thing the scions of the Eternal City want. They killed Godwyn with the prospect of his revival making him Lord of Night because a Lord and a God can only become one through rebirth.

Radahn becomes the Starscourge exactly because Demigods have their fated Death removed and he wants to die. The festival itself his Radahn's personal failsafe.

Elden Ring anticipated the Sacred Rite Scroll

>>715514143
There's no sex in the Lands Between, retard
That chart is also wrong because Marika had kids alone, just like Rennala does

how do terminal lorefags, the sorts of people who take the story speculation seriously, feel about all the recycled and cut concepts and storylines?
don't wanna shit in your stew too much, but i don't think you can in good conscience say THIS IS OBVIOUSLY HAVE THINGS WERE ALWAYS MEANT TO GO after you see a third of the elements being repurposed and another third never being relevant at all
kinda presumptous

>>715509181
Wen yur in the Erdtree with yuor master and yor powerz get sealed, u look at her and she says her daughter is ded. THEN WHO WAS GLOAM?

>>715509181
Probably just a remix of the Izalith witches.

>>715514442
There's no repurposed elements.
Elden Ring only makes more sense with SOTE.
Marika for example leads the Tarnished specifically to Farum Azula for them to unseal Death and burn the Erdtree so that she can actually complete her ascension to Godhood alongside Radagon, as indicated in the Sacred Rite Scroll.

Those people who try to make up random bullshit without understanding the lore, usually headcanoning mundane and bland plotpoints out of nowhere, that end up making fictional nonsensical theories out of nowhere, that are presumptuous
>You see Marika is rebelling against the evil Greater Will (or Elden Beast i dunno they sound the same) because they are evil alien parasites, even though this is a literal B movie plot I made up entirely as half assed replacement to actually putting effort towards understanding it.
And when that gets ridiculed or doesn't fit they get mad

>>715501528
We'll find out next game or the one after when we see the definitely-not-godwyn boss they cut from elden ring getting used somewhere

>>715514746
There was never the plan for Godwyn to be a boss
Godwyn's narrative role is being the second Prince of Death and becoming the Mending Rune of Death

>new Marika lore is good
>Messmer is one of the coolest demigods
>anything related to Miquella is a literal pile of garbage only shit eaters like the reddit tarnished archeologist crowd would dare to defend
Weird DLC.

>>715514690
>There's no repurposed elements
excluding kále and vyke and dream mist and who knows what else
>wordswordswords
have fun you graphomaniac you

>>715514854
All the lore is good
In fact, if you disregard Miquella lore tha Marika lore would also make no sense to you since they do exactly the same thing

>>715514373
>There's no sex in the Lands Between, retard
Anything is possible if you try hard enough :)
By the grace of gold I WILL impregnate
Millicent
Melina
Melania
Renalla
Fia
Rya
Ranni
Roderika
and Miquella

>>715514854
>>new Marika lore is good
Agreed
>>Messmer is one of the coolest demigods
Certainly a good character that plays off of Marika well. But the whole shit with the hornsent was very farfetched and they should've introduced Messmer in the base game already.
Dark Souls 1 did it best. Teasing the 4 knights of Gwyn but only showing us 2 until the DLC + furtive pigmy tease was the best execution of foreshadowing that leads into payoff so far. It was very cohesive, also with Sif tying back into the main game and reacting to your actions in teh DLC.
Bloodborne also had a very nice DLC lore wise that nicely ties into the basegame.

>>anything related to Miquella is a literal pile of garbage only shit eaters like the reddit tarnished archeologist crowd would dare to defend
100%. He wasn't even a bad character but the delivery was heavy handed even for a souls game.

After playing AC6 I have to say that Armored Core story and lore is way more interesting though.

>>715514935
>kále and vyke and dream mist
All questlines that were replaced with expanded versions in the DLCs
The hilarity of it is that you don't understand any part of the Elden Ring lore.
You don't understand that the Moons were created like giant the Silver Balls, one for each Eternal City, and Rennala found hers in Nokron.
You don't understand what was Marika's plan and what she actually did and from where Elden Beast came from
You don't understand what the Lands Between was like before the Hornsent arrived
But since Miquella's plotline went to full realization instead of being lore, you are offended by your own retardation

>>715515043
>After playing AC6 I have to say that Armored Core story and lore is way more interesting though
Where's the Armored Core threads discussing story?

>>715515043
>After playing AC6 I have to say that Armored Core story and lore is way more interesting though.
AC6 is a living proof Fromsoft should ditch their souls styled storytelling and go back to telling real stories. I'd say AC6 has one of the best mecha stories across all mediums, it's like a weird fusion of Dune and Eureka Seven, and it works exceedingly well, with a ton of great characters and impressive scope to boot.

>>715514847
Yes. Which is why there nothing to do with him, death, and undeath was touched on in the DLC. This makes sense.

>>715515173
Are you implying that the amount of threads on 4chan/v/ discussing a story is an indicator on how enjoyable a story is?

That sounds incredibly retarded.

>>715515232
Nobody cares about Armored Core 6 story

>>715515173
>Where's the Armored Core threads discussing story?
All of it was discussed when the game was already released, it doesn't need your rpg codex ass to sperg out every time someone laughs at how badly miquella was handled.

>>715498174 (OP)
>>715498194
Propaganda vs. truth

>>715515247
I'm saying that AC6 story is literally Ghost in the Shell main theme of "you are just information bro" spread thin in an already short game

>>715515127
>replaced
>expanded
hilarious levels of self-delusion, like, genuinely impressive
i didn't even disagree with any of your marika and eternal city related ramblings, but you sure are intent on dominating the conversation with your towering intellect

have you heard of the guy who intended to sue fromsoft by claiming their games were hiding actual literal alternate reality? fun times, fun times

>>715515173
They've assimilated into Smallmind

>>715515232
Different director. Miyazaki will always go for indirect world building. In Souls games we basically play after the story happened. In AC6 we have a rich history but are also part of the main story. Very different approach, I do agree though that the latter lands better.
>>715515341
Sounds like you're just being reductive for the sake of it.
By that metric Elden Ring is just the cliche "fallen kingdom aftermath + everything is a cycle lmao" we've seen in DeS and DaS already.
You also seem very peeved that people actually like AC6.
Why?

>>715515418
>In Souls games we basically play after the story happened
This is literally the same as in AC6. The difference is, the "present time" also has a story to tell.

Has anyone else noticed that recent FromSoft titles have had more Evil Women? I'm pretty happy about the direction they're going.

>>715515341
>I'm saying that
No, you were asking where all the threads are as if 4channers talking about something is an indicator for quality.
Why try to wiggle your way out of this one? Why did you ask how many threads there are?
Playercoonter mindvirus but applied to "threads on 4chan".

>>715515418
>By that metric Elden Ring is just the cliche "fallen kingdom aftermath + everything is a cycle lmao" we've seen in DeS and DaS already.
It is lol, we see at least 4 of them during the game, maybe 7 but I'm not thinking too hard about it

>>715515464
Yes, this is what I said.

>>715515238
You are throwing random shit around because you are a retard.
The DLC has nothing to do with Death in fact. It's about the Realm of Shadow, Helphen and Miquella's desire to restore the grace of light, which was robbed from the previous Order.

The Eclipse which you jerked yourself off with literally represents the downfall of the Sun Realm, or you think it's a coicidence Miquella leads the Banished faction and has the Candletree imagery hidden in his Haligtree, Candletree that is literally Helphen and also worshipped by the Hornsent in the barbed version.

But you don't understand it because you are a retard with literacy skills maybe sufficient for puddle-deep analysis that should fuck off to play nu-God of War.

>>715515418
>Sounds like you're just being reductive
I'm not though. That's literally what it is. What great concept and analysis can come from the "lore" of AC6
>>715515397
>Literally GITS network of human minds btw

>>715515682
>my headcanon is canon!!!
When did lorefags become so sure of themselves?
10 years ago it was mostly just self admitted theory crafting but nowadays everyone seriously believes they know the absolute truth.
Social media narcissism to the max.

Tranny game

>>715515820
>What great concept and analysis can come from the "lore" of AC6
Why are you moving the goalposts? What great concepts and analysis are coming from ER lore?
It's just that it's ambigious so people can present different theories but that doesn't make the story any more "great".
I mean I'm glad that the old magician's trick that Miyazaki has been pulling since DeS still works on you and you think that it's all the work of a gigabrained genius.
But just be honest and say= more ambigious more gooder.

>>715515824
>>my headcanon
It's not headcanon, it's correct, supported by evidence
>theory crafting
I don't theory craft because I actually take in all the lore elements and draw the proper conclusions.
You can't theorycrafting over wheter red is red or if red is blue. You can see, red is red. It's retards that assumed it was blue all along without checking that scream "Miyazaki changed red into red. This red was supposed to be blue"

>Arrogant
Hilarious considering that the braindead retards that get mad at not understanding the story of Souls games never actually fuck off. They PRETEND to be acknowledged and validated in their ignorant dismissive seethe and want to change Souls games.

>>715516029
All you did was prove my point. You also don't seem to know the difference between evidence and proof.
You THINK you have proof when all you have is evidence. And evidence for different, sometimes even opposing theories in these games are - by design - abundant.

>>715515924
>Why are you moving the goalposts?
I'm not moving anything
>What great concepts and analysis are coming from ER lore?
When did I ever pretend there's grea concepts and analysis from ER?
I said nobody cares about AC6, especially its nothingburger story which is LITERALLY Ghost in the Shell with no deviation from it. It's also rushed as fuck and spread thin as Rubicon planetary struggle is merely a plot device to introduce Coral.

I can't think of a single way AC6 story is any interesting or as a setting Rubicon is remotely as interesting or well crafted as any Soulsborne game. You don't actually believe it either, you just want to shit on Elden Ring

>>715516157
If you had any kind of "evidence" of contradictions you would actually bring it up instead of screeching
>sometimes even opposing theories in these games are - by design - abundant.
Source? Your retarded faggot ass

>>715516367
>I said nobody cares about AC6,
And your metric for that is "# of threads on 4chan" which is retarded, that's why you quickly walked back on it.
Many people liked it. 2 even ITT. that's 1 more than you.

>I can't think of a single way AC6 story is any interesting or as a setting Rubicon is remotely as interesting or well crafted as any Soulsborne game. You don't actually believe it either, you just want to shit on Elden Ring

You're an autist who can't fahtom that people like things that you don't. Then you just play the reducitivst card again and scratch your head.
>Surely there can't people who enjoy my recuced version of a thing I hate??

>You just want to shit on Elden Ring
I have 650 hours in Elden Ring, I just liked AC6's story more. It's not hard to understand if you're not autistic.

>>715516459
If my posts are screeching, then what are you doing
>Your retarded faggot ass
By your own metric that's screaming until your lungs hurt and you soil your pants.
Your ego is way too big for Soulslore discussion. Try being more humble and people might actually listen to you. Just screaming "I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG!" without proof won't get you far.
Ever considered that?

>>715516592
>that's why you quickly walked back on it.
I didn't walk back on anything. Nobody cares about AC6 story and my metric is nobody discusses it
>You're an autist
Now you are just calling names and I'm the one that can't fathom people like things that I don't?
>I just liked AC6's story more
You and the other 5 that do
>It's not hard to understand if you're not autistic.
Ironic considering you can't seem to discern story from the setting and lore.
Both the stories of Elden Ring and Armored Core 6 are basic as fuck. Armored Core 6, which you love so much, it's just a bunch of 30 yo stale cyberpunk tropes.
Elden Ring is a setting made of ages upon ages with lore of dozens of kingdoms and an expansive mythos drawn from actual Reneissance imagery and Mesopotamian folklore.
You can like Armored Core 6 "story" more, but it's a matter of fact that to the most it is just uninteresting.

>>715516738
>By your own metric that's screaming
No, it's a statement
>Your ego is way too big
Nuh uh
>Try being more humble
No need
>without proof
I have proof, and you are deflecting after I asked you to bring evidence "contrary" to mine

>>715501056
Miquella was a mind controller in the base game too tho.
Plus he was not evil, just morally questionable.

>>715516932
>my metric is nobody discusses it
Why is discussion a metric on how much you enjoy something?
Elden Ring story only gets discussed because it's ambigous by design.
>Now you are just calling names and I'm the one that can't fathom people like things that I don't?
The difference is that you say that "nobody liked it" and you can't fathom that people just enjoyed it and don't feel the need to ""discuss"" it. Not everything has to be overanalysed 3 weeks later. Some games you can just finish a few times and be done with them.
>rest of your post
That's jsut you being autistic and reductive again.


>You can like Armored Core 6 "story" more, but it's a matter of fact that to the most it is just uninteresting.
No, you just think that amibgious world building is superior because people talk more about it. You already played your cards and you think online discussion is the metric so ambigious stories are always better in your eyes. Whihc is fine, I'm not an autist who denies other people's fun. It's just that you fail to recognise that AC6 lands better with people who played Souls since 2012 and think the "fallen kingdom" trope got old.

>>715499080
we get it you are a nintendo-loving sheep

>>715517075
>No, it's a statement
Why was my post "screeching" then? Got any evidence for that? Or is it jsut you asserting things again without proof?
>Nuh uh
Definitely.
>No need
Q.e.d.
>I have proof
I advise you to google "evidence vs. proof" and read. Or do you only spend time reading video game item descriptions?

Shadow of the Erdtree is not canon
simple as

>>715500206
Where's Rya? She's a daughter of Rykard.

>>715517416
>Why is discussion a metric on how much you enjoy something?
I never said this
I said "nobody cares about Armored Core 6 story"
>You already played your cards and you think online discussion is the metric so ambigious stories are always better in your eyes.
I said that people actually care about Elden Ring setting and you are confirming it by stating that indeed it is discussed

But for some reason you think I have some agenda against Armored Core 6.
I'm pushing back against the idea that Fromsoftware should make "stories" like Armored Core 6

I'm not even going to engage with that. Can you describe in which way Armored Core 6 "lore" is interesting?

>>715517502
>Why was my post "screeching" then?
Because using greentext for sarcastic mockery is an ill suited replacement for an argument, which you still refuse to provide as I'm waiting couter-"evidence" to the proofs I provided for my correct understand of the lore I can be fully smug about

>>715517883
>no dude these two towers are identical if you ignore all the things that make them different
not that guy but lmao

OH YOU'LL GIVE YOUR HEART
THEY ALL GIVE THEIR HEARTS

I wish to fuck Miquella

>>715515418
>Different director. Miyazaki will always go for indirect world building.
Nightreign has the same hidden lore with hints and evidence. The Castle of Nightreign is growing silver tree barks because of silver being the imitation of gold, which also mimics the way trees are created in Elden Ring through Death.
There's even sacrificial twigs, lost runes that dried up.

Either Miyazaki wrote Nightreign too or simply you should accept Souls games lend themselves to this kind of indirect narration which Fromsoftware will continue using.

>>715518116
They are identical

>>715517667
Seethe and cope

>>715517667
Dschizo you lost

>>715518536
It's completly different. The battlement on the shield has two concave side, while the one in the picture is straight and widens with more straight lines towards its base.

>>715498174 (OP)
Reminder that Shabriri is still the best and coolest character in the game

>>715513932
>The lore was never about Godwyn revival
It was also never about twink Miquella having a gay marriage vow with Radahn but here we are. The funny thing about the "muh soul is dead, only body left alive" cope is that the story beats and lore in these games IS always esoteric and vague enough to allow FS to easily pull something out of their ass (Radahn shit being the prime example). So it was never about bringing Godwyn back in the base game but most of the players wanted it, and, while it still would be cheap to bring him back as a final boss (whether as him, some imitation of him or as some abomination, doesn't matter) it still wouldn't feel as cheap as PCR. The rest is cope.

>>715515347
>but you sure are intent on dominating the conversation with your towering intellect
I actually understand what is going on, never backed off from other people presenting any evidence, which people fail to provide becase I actually know my stuff.

If I know that Godwyn's "faces" are actually seeded facial pustules placed exactly in burial sites by Duskborn followers to grow as their own bodies by feeding on Death, which was confirmed by the DLC catacombs having each a a face except the one where the Death knight collapsed and didn't make it to the end, and instead thousands of retards who watched Vaatividya are convinced Godwyn pops out of the ground randomly, why wouldn't I be smug and dominate the discussion by posting evidence?
>hilarious levels of self-delusion
Nope, what is delusional is that thinking that Fromsoftware changing Vyke with Rogier and adding to the game own Draconic quest means nothing matters and no lore is set in stone and Miyazaki schizophrenically changes everything for no reason to spite you and not make the lore you made up fit.
Delusional and intellectually dishonest

>>715518536
Oh shit you are a moron like no other

>>715519464
>It was also never about twink Miquella having a gay marriage vow with Radahn but here we are.
It was
>The funny thing about the "muh soul is dead, only body left alive" cope is that the story beats and lore in these games IS always esoteric and vague enough to allow FS to easily pull something out of their ass (Radahn shit being the prime example).
Miquella never once considered Godwyn's body
>So it was never about bringing Godwyn back in the base game but most of the players wanted it, and,
Miyazaki never game the single slightest fuck about what people expected from the DLC
>it still wouldn't feel as cheap as PCR
There's nothing cheap about it. It's the actual plot. It's the meaning of the Battle of Aeonia. It's the meaning of the Haligtree. The only 2 characters with deep veneration for the Sun Realm, the only Demigods (except Ranni) to purposefully shed away their immortality. Everything sets up to it
>>715519162
>The battlement on the shield has two concave side,
Almost like the shield is concave on its own

>>715518536
You're actually mentally ill. Your own picture goes against your words

>>715519990
>>715519863
Quit samefagging pal

>>715520113
>completely different shape, both when it comes to the general layout of the tower and its individual details
>damage controls like a compete motherfucker
You are pitiful

>>715519981
>It was
Ok, show us 1 (one) post from wherever pre-dlc about it or naming their (then non-existent) relationship as the reason for the battle of Aenoia (most you'll get is M&M trying to kickstart the star movement). I'll wait, likely forever because the other posters are right and you are either baiting or a schizophrenic and a Miyazaki cum-slurper to boot.

>>715520220
>>completely different shape
Nope
>Bro look at my screencap after I reset my router bro don't mind that the other anon vanished bro I'm not samefagging bro
Kek
>>715520564
Both Radahn and the Church of the Eclipse have the Red-Maned Lion because it's there that Radahn's Soul would have found a new Demigod vessel.
Helphen is depicted in the Lands Between as the Candletree, of which the Haligtree has the same sigil shape and with candletrees found in the Haligtree itself.
The purpose of the Candletree is guidiling light for Souls, the same of the lamps of Helphen
Helphen is also shown in its pre and post Scadutree depiction

>>715521870
>Nope
"Nope" what, you mentally ill faggot? They literally are. Candletrees refer to base game items too.

>>715520564

>>715522009
No, the Candletrees are vestiges of Helphen that are also present in Mountaintops as spirit form and in the Haligtree physically, to hint Miquella's connection with the old Order. It's lamps to guide souls, that are heretical to the current Order. Both Miquella and Radahn venerate the Sun Realm and carry imagery from it. They were never enemies, Castle Sol is stated multiple times to be allied with Carians too.

>>715522186
>blahblahblah
Meanwhile, actual candletrees

>all gods are insane murderhobos
>rykard, the upstanding family man, wanted to eat the gods

Was he the good guy all along?

>>715517698
>I said "nobody cares about Armored Core 6 story"
Which is also false.
>I said that people actually care about Elden Ring setting
By what metric do you measure that?
It's talked about more because it is ambigious. That's literally all there is to it.
AC story/lore doesn't have much to discuss because you don't have shizos like >>715521870 who can just make shit up and post about it for years.
Also the player count is just much lower on AC6 because mecha is niche compared to fantasy.
>But for some reason you think I have some agenda against Armored Core 6.
I think that because you keep insisting the story is completely without merit.
>I'm pushing back against the idea that Fromsoftware should make "stories" like Armored Core 6
Ok. Why?
>I'm not even going to engage with that. Can you describe in which way Armored Core 6 "lore" is interesting?
The lore is more interesting because it's directly relevant to what you do in the game and the characters you meet and knowing about it informs your decisions. In ER (and souls overall) there's a lot of stuff that might be fun to uncover but knowing about it doesn't impact the way you play the game at all. Everything important has already happened in ER. In AC you're in the middle of the important event that a game like ER would be set in 1000 years after.
Yes, ER has a fatter underbelly of history to uncover but most of it is irrelevant background noise and in the context of their past games also far from orinigal or interesting.
>this kingdom/society was there once and then it fell and then came another one
>repeat x50
just gets old after some some time

>>715518468
>you should accept Souls games lend themselves to this kind of indirect narration which Fromsoftware will continue using.
I do, anon. I've been playing these games since 2012 and I just got tired of them, it's not that deep. The formula of conveying lore just gets old if you've done the digging too many times.
Currently having fun with Nighreign (don't give single fuck about spinoff ""Lore"" though lol) with my friends, will be skipping Duskbloods and if the next actual souls game will be le open world meme it will be the first Fromsoft game in over 10 years I'm not preordering.
Looking forward to AC7 though, since I started with 6 and the series still feels fresh to me.

>>715501475
More fleshed out characters (which is more of an indictment on their past games desu)

>>715501546
Kino begets more kino

>>715500407
Literally all “I am le blade for X I am le tool for Y” are always cringe

>>715522234
Yes retard, they are the same.
The Sun Realm was an order of LIGHT. Before the Golden Order souls were lead to trees through light.

>Greatsword patterned after the black steeple of the Helphen, the lampwood which guides the dead of the spirit world.

>The lamplight is similar to grace in appearance, only it is said that it can only be seen by those who met their death in battle.

But for Radahn's soul to reach the Haligtree, the Sun has to be swallowed.
The Erdtree makes it impossible and replaced effectively the sun

>It's said that the Erdtree was once as warm and gentle as the sun, would gradually heall all who are bathed in its rays

Only by eclipsing the Sun the Demigods would once be revived, with the sun in Eclipse being the iconography of the Demigods revival, but the Erdtree makes the efforts of Castle Sol futile. Souls can't follow the lamplight, the Sun always shines even at night, which is why Miquella enacts his plan in the veiled Realm of Shadow.

>>715523068
>The Sun Realm
you failed to establish any relationship between that one shield and the dlc

>>715523331
No, I abundantly made it clear while you failed to convince anyone with your samefagging though

>>715519981
>Almost like the shield is concave on its own
That' not how lines work

>>715499003
You might be retarded

>>715523492
>No, I abundantly made it clear
you wrote a page of fanfiction and got laughed at because your own pictures go against your inane theories

>>715523068
Ok, that's the first time someone gives an actual theory on why Miquella needs to go in the Realm of Shadow at least

>>715523584
>>715523538
You have, as I predicted, failed to provide any single counterargument

>>715523671
>counterargument
You only need counterarguments if there is an argument in the first place. The shape of the tower on the shield is completely different from the shadowkeep and this is the basis for your entire fanfic

>>715501406
This

So what do you guys think about the theory that Messmer and Melina are the children of the Gloam Eyes/Eyed Queen, and Marika just abducted the two and “raised” them as her own? Also why is it that only Godrick is a distant descendant of Marika? Did the other demigods stayed virgins or did their children all die off or something?

>>715499171
let a duchess solo it for you

>>715523584
NTA but
>Literal Sunflower
>Sunwarmth Spirit Stones
>It's always sunny in Enir-Ilim
>It's always sunny in Farum Azula
>Farum Azula and Enir-Ilim have the same architectural style
There's a lot of evidence the DLC area is the Sun Realm

>>715524126
>NTA

>>715501475
Every single Souls (and ER) game has exploded in popularity compared to its predecessors
When Dark Souls 3 came out 9 years ago it was the first souls game for over half of the people who played it

>>715517667
This.

>>715523863
Every mausoleum coffin is a dead offspring of marika that failed to become something

>>715525083
I thought they were killed on the night of the black knives along with Godwyn

>>715525083
But are they all of Godrick’s lineage? So far I’ve only heard of them getting laid

>>715525254
Who fucked Godrick?

Radagon is Godwyn and Elden Ring is just a huge allegory for the Body Politic.

>>715513491
Why would she be looking at the Haligtree tree and talking about waiting for Miquella's return if she knew that he was with Mohg?
If she knew he was with Mohg, why wouldn't she have just went and killed Mohg herself and expedited that entire process instead of wasting away doing nothing while Miquella twiddled his thumbs waiting for someone to kill Mohg, finally.

It doesn't really make sense that Malenia knew what Miquella was doing and then just sat on her ass in the Haligtree rotting away, instead of helping him.

>>715525443
>Why would she be looking at the Haligtree tree and talking about waiting for Miquella's return if she knew that he was with Mohg?
Because she knows of Miquella's plan for ascension

>>715525443
Maybe he wanted her to wait and not scarlet nuke mohgs palace

>>715523743
>The shape of the tower on the shield is completely different
It isn't

>>715525606
>it isnt

>>715523863
>So what do you guys think about the theory that Messmer and Melina are the children of the Gloam Eyes/Eyed Queen,
I had thought something like this even before the DLC with just Melina. Melina definitely has some relationship to GEQ and inherited some of her powers but I've always found the idea thats she's just literally the GEQ that Maliketh fought to be a bit absurd.
Melina also has some weirdness around her birth (implies she doesn't have a mother, or at least not in the traditional sense) so it could also be that she's a "daughter" of Marika in some more abstract way like she created Melina through some sort of ritual, and GEQ's powers could've just been "sealed away" in her by giving her one of GEQ's eyes and sealing it shut. I think the idea that Messmer is from a seperate lineage and he just got co-opted into Marika's family makes sense since his golden eye is fake. I think Melina's is real since it looks like a normal eye and doesn't have Marika's seal but that might not matter.
>Also why is it that only Godrick is a distant descendant of Marika?
Presumably there are actually a bunch of random demigod descendants that just don't matter and are never brought up, like godefroy and the soulless demigods. I think its just a limitation of the size of the game that we never really see these guys setting up micro-kingdoms across the game world. Its also possible that most or all of them are just dead besides the direct descendants who are the strongest and Godfrey is just the only distant descendant that is still kicking and was able to scrounge together some modicum of power.

>>715525497
His plan of waiting for some random to first, find Mohg, and then second, be strong enough to kill a Demigod, and thirdly, to want to kill him instead of making an alliance?
And this taking potentially thousands of years or something?
>>715525531
Miquella hinking that his sister was too useless for real work after Aeonia and banning her from helping is just about the only justifable stance if you assume that Malenia had knowledge of what he was doing.

>>715509181
Marika's sister
Melina and Messmer's mother

>>715525606
Your own cope images betray your "argument"

>>715519464
DLC lore was confirmed to be established when the rest of the games lore was made. Stay mad

>>715509181
Melina.
Anyone that says differently is a fuck.
>>715508457
They deserved worse.
Miquella might have been a naive idiot, but Malenia is the single most deadly living creature in the setting.

>>715525443
>Why would she be looking at the Haligtree tree and talking about waiting for Miquella's return if she knew that he was with Mohg?
>If she knew he was with Mohg, why wouldn't she have just went and killed Mohg herself and expedited that entire process instead of wasting away doing nothing while Miquella twiddled his thumbs waiting for someone to kill Mohg, finally.
Because Miquella flooded the Haligtree to keep Malenia from suffering Scarlet Rot further after the Battle of Aeonia
>>715524323
Samefagging your own post, that's fucking pathetic, Dfag
>>715525717
They are the exact same. The concave shield matches exactly the actual walls
>>715525797
And quit samefagging. Retard

>>715509181
The Gloam Eyed Queen

>>715498174 (OP)
>Elden slop """lore"""

>>715509181
Eiglay

>>715525952
What did the hysterical woman mean by this?
Still waiting for a single actual argument to support your theory btw

>>715525952
Malenia's boss room is not flooded in any particular way.
Running water is supposed to prevent Rot, not a stagnant puddle.

>>715525753
Godfrey is the progenitor of the whole lineage, not a descendant… but I guess that in the world of ER you only die when you are killed and Godfrey was too strong so he outlived his whole family tree. Or it could be that divinity is diluted by each generation (like it was stated by why Godrick is so weak and needed grafting). You can produce demigods, but any children born of them are most likely just mortals that’ll die naturally.

>>715526134
>Malenia's boss room is not flooded
Yes it is
>>715526110
Resetting your router and posting the you of the last comment not once but twice only makes you look more guilty

>>715526367
>Resetting your router
resetting your router does nothing to (you)s, brain damaged faggot

>>715526134
>Malenia's boss room is not flooded in any particular way.
Are you retarded?

>>715514690
>sacred rite scroll
Only relevant for Radahn and Miquella.
It doesn't work for Marika and Radagon because they were split and then remerged persons that shared a body already.
Marika wanting the Tarnished to kill the Elden Beast fits in with everything we know about her resenting the Golden Order and wanting it destroyed at all costs. Her having an elaborate plan to become a greater Goddess doesn't work as well because, well, she doesn't. She ends the story as a shattered statue that the PC puts back together slightly for the sake of themselves becoming Lord to a debilitated Goddess.

>>715523671
You provided your own conuterargument right here >>715518536

>>715526185
I obviously meant Goddrick, I just mistyped as Godfrey because I had Godefroy on the brain.
Goddrick is the only distant descendant who did anything of not so he's the only one we see. Are there others? Probably. Are they dead? Who fucking knows. Some are (soulless demigods), but there's no way of knowing if thats all of them.

>>715526486
>Only relevant for Radahn and Miquella
Wrong
>It doesn't work for Marika and Radagon because they were split
Wrong.
>and then remerged persons that shared a body already.
Marika and Radagon only share a body at the very end. Radagon is a larval tear and gives to Rennala the very Rune of the Unborn Marika uses to create him
>Marika wanting the Tarnished to kill the Elden Beast fits in with everything we know about her resenting the Golden Order and wanting it destroyed at all costs.
That's just a bunch of bullshit you made up though
>Her having an elaborate plan to become a greater Goddess doesn't work
There's no "greater" Goddess. She becomes a Goddess, the host of the Elden Beast
>>715526494
No, that's just you grasping at straws, because you were too stupid to understand that indeed shields are concave and not a flat 2d plane

>>715526418
And yet there's never 2 screenshots, only 1 because you are a weaseling piece of shit already caught red handed samefagging your own posts, even your own avatarfagging posts with the same avatar

>>715526812
A vertically bent plane wouldn't bend two vertical lines so that they move closer to each other.

>>715526725
NTA: Godrick isn't a descendant. He's a mad scientist who believes that the Golden Lineage can be grafted into one's self to assert royalty and access to the Erdtree. It is why Morgott protects the front initially, as he works with Godrick on discerning The Golden Lineage. Grafted and scion are both words used in plant sciences to achieve a particular result. This is also explains why Radagon is Godwyn as they essentially needed a literal biological marker to gain access that only his body contained.

Elden Ring is about scifi becoming mythologised. With the Elden Ring itself being a particle accelerator. To gain access to the Erdtree is to gain access to the Elden Ring, which would allow one to synthesise the reality they wish much like how a PA can perform Chrysopoeia.

>>715525952
>They are the exact same. The concave shield matches exactly the actual walls
Anon, I....

>>715517883
>>715518536
This makes you seem very ignorant of how games development works.
The artist and modeler that made that shield was almost certainly not the same guy as the one that planned out the Shadow Keep or developed its aesthetic. FromSoft games have too many people working on them and they reuse too many details and aesthetic choices between and inside games for you to grab similarities from distant places and assume there's a connection unless the game is explicit about it.

The Sun Realm Shield is clearly connected to Godwyn, and that is as far as you can take it.
Godwyn is linked to the sun in a variety of ways, and 'his' skeleton soldiers carrying an ancient and worn version of his symbol (possibly one he had in life), fits well.
Going any farther than that is stretching too far.

>>715526949
>even your own avatarfagging posts with the same avatar
this is so funny coming from a mentally ill reposting the same images in every single thread shitting on ER's ""lore""

>>715527042
Yes it would, that's exactly how it works.
As a surface is bent and becomes concave 2 vertical lines have their perpendicular projection closer in 2d plane

>>715521870
The Church of the Eclipse having lion iconography is far more likely linked to Godwyn being the son of Godfrey and using some of his symbols. We know that Radahn larped as a Godfrey type warlord and took his lion from the man.
Your explanation is overcomplicated and draws links that have no reason to exist in light of a simpler explanation more than sufficing.

I wonder if it's just me and the ensha guy in here and he's arguing with himself.

>>715527098
>Godrick isn't a descendant. He's a mad scientist who believes that the Golden Lineage can be grafted into one's self to assert royalty and access to the Erdtree
He has a throne in the capital alongside the other demigods are you retarded?

>>715527508
Godrick is obviously Godwyn in disguise because they both have the name "God"
He is the true god of the world and grafted himself into a lesser being to study the falling star beast. If you look at my shield pic again, it will make perfect sense.

>>715525159
Not necessarily.
Vyke must have had at least one Great Rune, because he was said to have been closer to the Throne than any other Tarnished ever. Maybe he even had two.
Bernahl was another Tarnished that made it to the Forge of the Giants, so it is likely he had at least one Great Rune too.
>>715525254
Godrick is probably a descendant of Godwyn.
But there's no reason to think that only Godwyn had children.
Radahn was a grown man, so was Rykard. Ranni herself could have had children prior to her losing her body, as well.

>>715527508
Mohg doesn't have a throne, so their willful treachery is probably more to do with a dissolution of a council that existed between the elden ring breaking and the shattering.

>>715527658
Is this some sort of well-poisoning technique where you make intentionally retarded and outlandish claims to try to make other anons looks stupid by association or something?

>>715527116
Quit samefagging, learn how perspective works before you further look like an ignorant buffoon
>>715527353
>The Church of the Eclipse having lion iconography is far more likely linked to Godwyn
No it's not, because Godwyn never used Beast iconography and neither did Godfrey, who has tree and flower engravings on his set, or their respective forces. The exaltation of the Lion is entirely derivative of Godfrey and Serosh alliance which inspired the imagery Radahn fashions himself after. Such imagery wouldn't make sense for Godfrey since he was an enemy.
>>715527198
Unlike you, I don't need to avatarfag or hide my posts because my arguments standa on their own and I have the Intellect to actually prove my point.

>>715527969
>Is this some sort of well-poisoning technique
Stop samefagging. My intellect is far greater than you can ever imagine and I see through your lies. Nice of you to prove my point by not providing an argument.

>>715498783
UUÙUUUUUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOʻOOOOOOHHHH
SNAKE LADY SEX, SEX SEX SEX

>>715528098
Okay so I'm assuming you're trying to make fun of that other guy making outlandish claims by making slightly more retarded outlandish claims in a similar posting style to stir shit.

>>715526812
>Radagon is a larval tear and gives to Rennala the very Rune of the Unborn Marika uses to create him
There's no need for this nonsense when we see an Empyrean split himself without all this preamble in the DLC. Radagon is to Marika, what St. Trina is to Miquella.

We know that Marika resents the Golden Order.
She conspired with Godfrey for him to return one day to reconquer the Lands Between.
She conspired with Hewg to create a weapon that could kill the Elden Beast.
She is brutal and merciless to her children and tells them to sink or swim and become more powerful at all costs - which makes sense when she wants at least one of them to potentially become strong enough to kill the Elden Beast.
She denigrates Radagon as being the Order's mutt, indicating that she is disloyal to the Order and has no respect for it anymore.

She doesn't become a host to the Elden Beast at the end, because we killed that for good, already.
She returns to being the Order's Goddess, but as a shattered statue, barely alive, instead of an autonomous divinity.

>>715527132
>dude I get that you actually found compelling evidence, but this doesn't matter because I decided the whole game is made of elements created in isolation with no actual meaning so i'll disregard everything as coicidence
Lol

>>715528356
Keep talking to yourself, dunce. Odd how you drop your avatars when convenient.

>>715527980
>Unlike you, I don't need to avatarfag

>>715528403
>There's no need for this nonsense when we see an Empyrean split himself without all this preamble in the DLC.
But Marika is no Empyrean and never called one
>Radagon is to Marika, what St. Trina is to Miquella.
This kind of random assumption is what makes you not understand lore
>We know that Marika resents the Golden Order
Source? Your ass of course
>She conspired with Godfrey for him to return one day to reconquer the Lands Between.
Source? Your ass of course
>She conspired with Hewg to create a weapon that could kill the Elden Beast.
Nope, she tasked Hewg to create her Hammer, with which she shattered herself and Radagon, hammer that is the only weapon described as crafted outside the Lands Between, and Miyazaki stated that the Roudtable Hold is outside the Lands Between
>which makes sense when she wants at least one of them to potentially become strong enough to kill the Elden Beast.
Source? Your ass
>She denigrates Radagon as being the Order's mutt, indicating that she is disloyal to the Order and has no respect for it anymore.
Nope, that's just random made up bullshit that somehow twisted Marika's declaring her wish to merge with him so they become God, because you read it with infinite confirmation bias
>She doesn't become a host to the Elden Beast at the end, because we killed that for good
Yes she does, see
>She returns to being the Order's Goddess, but as a shattered statue, barely alive, instead of an autonomous divinity.
No, she's fucking dead, period.

>>715528427
You didn't find compelling evidence.
First, the castles don't match at all, but that is not the point of my post.
But you demonstrated a great ignorance of how games are made or art assets created, in general. FromSoft games are explicit when connections exist, not relying on vaguely similar shapes of art assets that were probably created years apart from one another by different people in different places.
This detective work doesn't fit at all, and never has. People have been doing it since at least the Dark Souls days, trying to link together every piece of armor with gemstones or motifs into one coherent pattern, when it just betrays a significant lack of knowledge at the development process.

It really is one guy fighting with himself.

Shadow of the Erdtree... is... non-canon.

>>715528860
It actually works well in most instances though. That's what makes it interesting. Sometimes from throws a random flower pot around or bit of bullshit but for the most part everything lines up. Half the shit in ER doesn't line up or make sense.

>>715529024
Based. I still like to think Mohg pounded Miquellas pooper, though.

I've never seen this so-called Golden Order in the game, so I'm pretty sure it's a fabrication and a misunderstanding of the in-game lore, which is mostly written up by various unreliable narrators in-universe.

I would like to have sex with Queen Marika the Eternal

>>715527980
Godwyn was born after Godfrey had already bonded with Serosh, so that distinction doesn't matter much.
We see lions used to represent Godfrey in many places in the game.

>>715529245
That's like having sex with everyone in that world. She's the town bike, mang. Scarlet Rot isn't from an outer god, it's a collection of all of her STDs.

>>715513491
>SOTE just doesn't like that the story
No, the story is just lame trash compared to every other possibility. Cope and dilate you homosexual, Miyazaki has always been a hack writer who makes up for his failures with "vagueness"

>>715528712
>Doesn't even know what avatarfag is
>>715528860
>Bro assets are made in complete isolation there's no actual common story because... There just isn't

>>715513932
>KILL Godwyn
Interesting plot thrown away for the most retarded alternative possible. Just accept that most of us think SOTE's story FUCKING SUCKS dude. Stop sucking on Miyazaki's micropenis

>>715529268
>so that distinction doesn't matter much.
Yes it does
>We see lions used to represent Godfrey in many places in the game.
No we don't. In tandem with the distant Erdtree it represents the Golden Lineage used exclusively by Godrick to lay claim to Lordship, and the Red-maned Lion alone represents Radahn
>>715528860
You can see the shield represents Shadow Keep, which also holds the Tibia Mariner boats. The rest is cope. You screeching that everything is meaningless and that people chase ghosts by taking the setting seriously only makes yoiu look like a well poisoning false flagger butthurt at the game

>>715500206
>"uncomfirmed father"
>both redhead
>youngest siblings
I mean, its clear selfcestpreg

>>715529236
Golden Order isn't a group its the order of the world created by Marika as the vessel for the Elden Ring.
>The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death.
>The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation…
So the formation of the golden order coincides with the removal of DD in some way and given the symbolism for gold the game uses, the golden order is just Marika's order or her "age" (similar to Gwyn's Age of Fire) that is meant to last forever (like gold) by removing the certainty of Death from the world.
When Marika is investigating the golden order (as we learn from her words read by Melina) its more about her learning about how her rule fucked everything up and not about her investigating some shadowy cabal.
Golden Order is also used to refer to the religion that worships Marika as described by corhyn during the goldmask questline:
>The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god.
But its mostly used to describe Marika's age or the Rules of the world with Marika as the Elden Ring's vessel.

>>715499080
TRVKE

>>715529636
I don't give a fuck if you think it sucks.
SOTE is the literal continuation of everything in base game.
The game states Miquella wants to kill Godwyn, with a sword made to kill the undead and using the Golden Order Totality pose.
That you and many retards headcanoned it as some resurrection plot despite Godwyn having his own ending, and have the gall to be butthurt because the game didn't follow your own misconceptions is outrageously stupid.

>>715528820
Marika is clearly the first Empyrean of the current cycle.
She is explicitly called one, "Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean. Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death. Even then, she betrayed him."
Everything else is a product of that misunderstanding. Marika was an Empyrean. Perhaps she wasn't born one, but she became one and was recognized in that by the Two Fingers.

>godfrey's return
Pilgrimage Church dialog.
She wants Godfrey to grow even stronger and then return and claim the Elden Ring when she gives Grace back to him.
>hewg
Marika's Hammer, via its item description, is explicitly said to come from outside the Lands Between.... in the lands of the Numen. Hewg did not make it. The Roundtable Hold is in a pocket dimension, but not in the lands of the Numen.
Hewg was tasked with essentially recreating the Nox's Finger Slayer Blade and failed at it.
>kill the elden beast
Anyone that wanted to claim the Elden Throne had to contend with the Beast.
Either being accepted by it or rejected. And if they were rejected, they had to be able to fight and kill it, like the player does.
>radagon
Her lines are clearly condescending and rude. 'Leal hound' demonstrates that she thinks he's lesser than her. He isn't her, and he isn't a God. He is a lesser dog of the Golden Order.
At no point do we see anything that shows that she has a desire to merge with him fully, they actively oppose one another regarding shattering the Elden Ring in the first place. Why would she want to merge with him in that light?

Marika is not dead at the end. We see her glowing with Grace from the inside.
She's alive at the end.

Throughout this post you've demonstrated a fundamental ignorance of the game's text and what it explicitly says.
You're out of your depth.

>>715530457
>>The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god.
Which makes it doubly hilarious when retards claim Marika wanted to "destroy the Golden Order" because they don't actually understand her motivations.

The best part about ER lore threads are the confident retards proudly spewing headcanon that is completely contrary to information that is explicitly mentioned in the game.

>>715498194
Crazy how Smellden Ring became about homo sex pests grooming each other and spreading STDs and shit

>>715530590
>She is explicitly called one
She isn't
>"Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean.
>Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death. Even then, she betrayed him."
Those two statements are separate for the same reason the game specifies Maliketh was only used as vessel for the Rune of Death (that Maliketh took from the actual Empyrean, the GEQ)

Marika's ascension is completeoy illegittimate

>>715530659
She wanted to destroy the Order because she found herself bound in it as a prisoner of the system she was a leader of.
Maliketh for example, was both a great warrior for her to wield against her most deadly of enemies. And he was also a sleeper agent that the Two Fingers could activate to kill her at any time. That is just one example.

We see consistently that Marika grew to resent the Golden Order and want it wrecked.

>>715530582
>I don't give a fuck if you think it sucks.
Of course you don't. You're a subhuman with no discernment who has made a shitty video game lore your mind's entire obsession. You just obsess over vague schizo bait Miyazaki threw together in five minutes to entrance retards like you instead of reading books or consuming any art worth a damn.

How does this >>715527296 look the same as this>>715518536 to you? Are you blind?

>>715530828
Hey, Bloodborne was high art.

>>715530763
You don't put a boy that looks like a girl in your game by accident, Japs are doing a hard turn towards pandering to pedofaggots nowadays.
And Fromsoft alone did it at least twice

>>715531318
Gwendolyn been here since the start, I think miyazaki is just a sexpest

>>715529236
The only Souls with an unreliable narrator is DS2.

>>715531418
Gwyndolyn* phone posting failllllliure.

>>715531418
I forgot, thrice then

>>715530659
We know that she at some point became disillusioned with her own rule based on the previously meantioned Melina Dialogue, and she obviously needed some reason to shatter the Elden Ring, the current arrangement of the runes within creating the rules that are known as "the golden order". The death of Godwyn and the spread of his deathblight was likely a wake up call that this world is not sustainable.
Given what we know it seems she wanted to back out but wasn't able to due to powers outside of her control (Beast, fingers, Radagon) and had to resort to drastic measures with the shattering, destroying the order of the world but leaving it in a sort of limbo state awaiting a new order.
Since all of the demigods failed at making a new order the fingers had to call Marika's ex to clean up her mess.

>>715530590
>>godfrey's return
>Pilgrimage Church dialog.
>She wants Godfrey to grow even stronger and then return and claim the Elden Ring when she gives Grace back to him.
But then reveals to Gideon she didn't want anyone to become Elden Lord, because her plan involved the Tarnished up to Farum Azula and killing each other
>>hewg
>Marika's Hammer, via its item description, is explicitly said to come from outside the Lands Between.... in the lands of the Numen. Hewg did not make it. The Roundtable Hold is in a pocket dimension, but not in the lands of the Numen.
The Lands of the Numen is another world. There's no evidence of what the Roundtable is, but it is most certainly the closest thing to another world
>Hewg was tasked with essentially recreating the Nox's Finger Slayer Blade and failed at it.
That's a dubious claim at best. Why would Marika need that when her pre-Shattering hammer could kill or at least harm Gods?
>>kill the elden beast
>Anyone that wanted to claim the Elden Throne had to contend with the Beast.
>Either being accepted by it or rejected. And if they were rejected, they had to be able to fight and kill it, like the player does.
See up
>>radagon
>Her lines are clearly condescending and rude.
> 'Leal hound' demonstrates that she thinks he's lesser than her. He isn't her, and he isn't a God. He is a lesser dog of the Golden Order.
No, that's a complete lie, especially because Marika is the Golden Order itself
>At no point do we see anything that shows that she has a desire to merge with him fully
"Let us be shattered both, mine other self"
Marika enables Radagon to merge by shattering him and herself. Nothing makes sense of the theory that Radagon and Marika were foes. It always sucked major ass and the DLC buried it 7 feet under by confirming Marika's endgame was killing herself and being reborn as actual Goddess with Radagon, something already clear by seeing the spear of Odin imagery
>She is explicitly called one
She is not.

>>715530793
We have no mechanism through which someone could still another Empyrean's shadow.
Assuming that those sentences aren't linked is deranged and unjustifiable. She was given a shadow, but knowing his danger to her, she used him as a safe for Destined Death and then sealed him away to protect herself.

>>715531589
>We know that
Saying "we know that" before posting completely unsourced headcanon projecting a fictional made up version of Marika's character that was never told is a surefire idea to look clueless and get completely disregarded

If Gideon was all knowing, why didn't he know the tarnished was going to kick his ass?

>>715531640
>We have no mechanism through which someone could still another Empyrean's shadow.
We know nothing of Shadowbound beasts in general
What WE ACTUALLY know is that Maliketh has a big history of slaying Demigods and is old enough to be in Farum Azula outside the Casuality, but as shadowbound beast for Marika (readonable to assume that began when Marika became Queen) he was became nothing but an overglorified purse.
This not only doesn't confirm that Marika is an Empyrean, unlike every other Empyrean being specifically called as such. It also hints something that the DLC confirmed. Marika is a usurper and Maliketh was a shadowbound beast before, likely turning against his own actual Empyrean.

>>715531948
His title is more an aspiration. He knows many things, but wants to know them all.

>>715532101
I was hoping he could guess my dick length or tell me if I'll find true love or something.

Man, what a let down Gideon was. I was hoping for a super bad ass but I absolutely steamroll him every time.

>>715501475
most digestible recent release

>>715501475
The real question is why there isn't more Mohg x Miquella fanart?

>>715532406
Because it stopped being hot when it became a confusing mess where nobody is even sure if Miquella planned his own kidnapping or not.

>>715532056
We break into Farum Azula ourselves and we're not that special.
So did the Godskins and Bernahl. Lots of dudes can get into it. Including the Goddess of the world.
Marika wouldn't have needed a guard dog to protect her, when she was instead surrounded by the strongest warriors on the planet. First Godfrey, second Radagon. What Maliketh was instead, was a danger to her that she needed to neutralize.

>>715531672
I cited the "spoken words of Marika" dialogue from Melina as was previously mentioned in the reply chain. I didn't post the full snippet because they've been talked to death and its dialogue most people are familiar with, but I clearly stated which dialogue I was referring to. I usually only do full text snippets for item descriptions or more obscure dialogue like if I want to quote something Kenneth height said or something. This is part of the critical path most players would have interacted with.
There's the quote about investigating the order mentioned earlier in the reply chain:
>I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order.
>Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased.
>Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past.
>My comrades; why must ye falter?
So we know at some point she decided to investigate the GO but at this point she doesn't seem to have an issue with it yet, but she doesn't want uphold this order on "blind belief" but seems to want to understand it better on an intellectual level. This is what I was referring to with disillusionment, she "searches" the golden order with the intention of increasing her faith but her actions after the fact (the shattering, giving Melina her "purpose" to act as kindling maiden) go against the GO. So we know before her search she was faithful to the GO but we know that actions well after actively work against it. Obviously a lot of other stuff happened in the meantime that contributed (death of godwyn, Two fingers picking successors for her when presumably she wanted to rule forever) but the culmination of these things is her destroying the thing that legitimizes her rule over TLB being the Elden Ring.

>>715531608
Gideon isn't omniscient, despite his name.
He has himself failed to ever come close to the throne despite being an old man. And he's seen great Tarnished like Vyke and Bernahl fail at it over the years.
His spirit is broken and he's petulantly lashing out at the player for doing something impossible for a 'mere human'.

The Roundtable Hold might be in another world, but it isn't the world of the Numen, is the focus.
It could be up Mike's ass, but the Numen would still be somewhere else.
Her hammer is a divine weapon, but outside of the player's hands, we don't know if it could have actually killed the Elden Beast. Not like the Finger Slayer Blade that was purpose built to fuck Gods up.

What is dubious about assuming that what the player experienced, going to claim the Elden Ring, and having to contend with the Elden Beast, would have been experienced by any Demigod that wasn't explicitly loyal to it (none of them were)?
Simplicity to me says that anyone that entered the room would have experienced the same. Radagon fighting to preserve the current system and being subsumed by the Elden Beast who did the same.

Marika isn't the Golden Order itself, she's not the system.
She's the leader of it, but the system exists outside of her. Goldmask demonstrates that, substantially. He sees how the Golden Order is a structure that exists outside of any particular Gods or Demigods.
The system around her works like a series of chains. That is why when she shattered the Elden Ring, she was crucified by the Fingers/Beast as punishment.

Radagon on the other hand was loyal to the system.
Much like how St. Trina is an embodiment of Miquella's compassion and kindness, Radagon is the collection of all of Marika's loyalty toward the Golden Order and the Fingers. He is the half of herself that she divested that wanted to perpetuate the system forever. While Marika wanted to be freed from it.

There was no merger plan.

>>715532838
That makes it even hotter. You can show them having the nastiest sex imaginable and people will say
>Gross! He's being raped!!
And you can say
>No, it was planned and consensual
But in your mind know that It wasn't. The internet should be exploding with pictures of Mohgs giant horned dick inside Miquellas bussy but theirs nearly nothing. It's disgraceful and I feel deep shame on behalf of the entirety of the internet.

>>715533245
I thought Marika was a Numan. So were all the Numen shamans? Or all the guys in the shadowlands were Numen but some of them were hornsent and others were just people like the shamans?

>>715501528
Godwyn shows up in like 2 places total in ER as a nasty blob. Making a dlc plot about him wouldn't make sense. That said, the current dlc plot is sooooo fucking bad/boring that I'd take an asspull Godwyn plot over whatever the fuck we got in the dlc.

>>715532283
I feel like that's almost all the characters in Elden Ring. So many of them just die in a lame way without doing anything. NPCs in general were all lame.

>>715534356
Shaman is just a translation of 'miko', a type of priest in Japanese religion. The name refers to how the Numen did have their own religion, dedicated to trees and merging with them. Those villagers were also 'priests' within the Hornsent religion, in a twisted way.
Marika is a Numen. She might have immigrated to the Lands Between as a child, or was born to a Numen family that did the same. But I wouldn't say that all Numen became Shamans, because plenty probably had no connection to religion in a significant way, unless they got chopped up and tossed in a jar with their family.

Hornsent probably weren't Numen, because I don't think we see anything about them merging their flesh together.

>>715534764
100%
Our friendly sorcerer bro dies after standing on a rotten fish head, Fia the lewd hug-maiden dies after getting that same fishes dick. I know fia kills D but his brother just kills himself or something? I don't even know what happens to that are chick at Godrick. I talked to her in round table and she just disappeared forever.

>>715535907
>I don't even know what happens to that are chick at Godrick.
She's one of the few who has a happy ending, unless you turn her into a mindless puppet.

>>715498174 (OP)
ooh piece of candy

The setting/lore of these games can be a good backdrop for both the characters and bosses to an extent, to get certain interactions and moments with them. SoTE/Nightreign was built knowing this, at least I see it as much.
Just don't think too much about it, it falls apart when you look to deep into it. just like anything man-made ,really.
Also if I might add, I really how they characterised the Nightfarers in NR, much like AC6 we ended up with quite the colorful cast.

>>715533128
>We break into Farum Azula ourselves
No, it can only be done with kindling maidens
>So did the Godskins
No, the Godskins are there, dead, and literally spawn from their graves, because the Gloam Eyed Queen is connected to the Sun Realm
>Marika wouldn't have needed a guard dog to protect her
That's NOT the point. The point is that for Marika he did nothing which implies he was "acquired", and if he wasn't the description wouldn't separate those two sentences either.
>>715533191
>I cited the "spoken words of Marika"
Which you gave free interpretation according to your confirmation bias.
Nothing implies Marika and Radagon are enemies or Marika hates the Golden Order
>>I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order.
This is Marika founding Golden Order Fundamentalism, researching the light cipher, with which Laww of Regression and Casuality are discovered
This matches Radagon studying Sorceries and Incantations on his own and Law of Regression is how Elden Beast is summoned because it is specified that Elden Beast trasmuted into the Elden Ring and it's not a shmimple shapeshifting thing, but Marika used Law of Regression on it
>>715533245
>Gideon isn't omniscient
Yes, which is why he is suprised to find out the truth. Marika never wanted for an Elden Lord and him and the Tarnished were used. They were used to unseal Death and they were used because Death quite literally farms saplings (that have the shape of sacrificial twigs) as Sacred Trees are formed with blood.
The Two Fingers state that all in the Lands Between will fight the Tarnished, and the Tarnished will fight, the eternal strife Gideon cites
>The Roundtable Hold might be in another world, but it isn't the world of the Numen, is the focus.
How can you claim that?
>Marika isn't the GO
She literally is
>There was no merger plan.
Except when Marika shatters both for this purpose, her and her other self. And you decide to ignore this and give it free interpretation.

>>715536064
I meant Axe* not are, but you still got it.
Well... I'm glad she makes it. I hope it's because I've never interacted with her after talking to her in RTH. Gideon treated her like shit, she deserves to be happy.

>>715536862
>No, it can only be done with kindling maidens
You can warp there from the 4 Belfries in Liurnia.
Bernahl and Alexander both are found in Farum Azula and neither has a Maiden (anymore).

I don't think there's any reason to think that the Godskins are zombies.
They're just crazy bastards that are trying to revive their Goddess and running small skinning cults around the Lands Between.
The GEQ is not linked to Godwyn, for whom the Sun Realm is based on. Her age was far before his and despite being centered around death, Destined Death and Those That Live On in Death are not actually connected substantially.

>>715522469
The only good guy would be the tarnished slaying everyone stronger than a magma wyrm and then enacting the golden age rebirth. You can just sit on your chair near the erdtree like the lich king on his frozen throne until some retard tries to mess with the order again

Marika declaring the intent to search the depths of the Golden Order concides with Radagon leaving Rennala for Marika. Incantations and Sorceries all derive from the Greater Will, and Fundamentalism is both Faith and Academy with Law of Regression and Casuality being the laws that define the common divine origin of things from which all derive and all strive to return to.

>It is said that long ago,
the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between,
which would later become the Elden Ring.

>The fundamentalists describe the Golden Order through the powers of regression and causality. Regression is the pull of meaning; that all things yearn eternally to converge.

>The fundamentalists describe the Golden Order through the
powers of regression and causality. Causality is the pull between
meanings; that which links all things in a chain of relation.

As Ymir says, all are Stardust, and the study of light is the study of the influence of the Greater Will and the Stars. Starlight/Amber Starlight is the reflection of Fate writ in the skies, while the light of the Erdtree is the Fate of those bound to the Order.

>>715536862
Gideon was just angry and bitter that he'd never be able to succeed.
Its the same style as the Crestfallen Warrior in DS1 trying to kill us after we start actually achieving our goals. Gideon liked being the unofficial leader of the Roundtable and the Tarnished, but the moment that it looked like someone was truly going to succeed, not just get a certain distance and then fail like Vyke or Bernahl, he just lashed out in vain because it would never be him.

Marika wanted an Elden Lord.
It is why she guides both us and Godfrey with Grace up until the final battle and even after it. She wanted a champion to kill the Elden Beast, something she couldn't do herself. And in doing so end the old Order and instate a new one that she could be more free in.

I can claim that the Roundtable Hold and the Numen homeland are in different places, because one is some kind of magical pocket dimension of sorts and the other was either another planet or some spiritual place of sorts, depending on how you translate, "異界", in the character preset description, "異界の民の末裔とされる...". Which is actually pretty similar to the term used for Isekai in Japanese which probably has some implications that I'm not sure where to take.

The Golden Order exists outside of her.
The Goldmask ending even binds that Gods and strips them of their humanity in a way that demonstrates that the Order is larger than its constituent parts or members.

Marika shatters herself because she must as part of her plan, Radagon is shattered with her because he shares a body with her, despite being a different personality.
He is her other half, because he is a product of her splitting pieces off.

>>715537806
>Incantations and Sorceries all derive from the Greater Will, and Fundamentalism is both Faith and Academy with Law of Regression and Casuality being the laws that define the common divine origin of things from which all derive and all strive to return to.
I disagree.
I flip it the other way, Incantations are the same thing as Sorceries, just channeled differently. You don't actually need Faith in the Gods or greater beings to do incantations, they're just a different type of Sorcery.
The Greater Will or the Dragons or any of that are fundamentally unnecessary to channel Incantations, even if the player can't do it.

>>715536862
>Nothing implies Marika and Radagon are enemies
They actively take actions against each other, Radagon tries to repair the ring as Marika tries to destroy it.
>Stone hammer made in the lands of the Numen, outside the Lands Between. The tool with which Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon attempted to repair it.
This act alone show they have different motivations and goals. Marika's goals involve shattering the Elden Ring and Radagon's don't.
>or Marika hates the Golden Order
The Golden Order is her order, she doesn't hate it necessarily but she knowingly and intentionally sabotaged it with the shattering.

>>715498174 (OP)
The more lore I learn about Elden Ring, the less I like it.

>>715539110
Same. Older Souls games had fun with it, but also a point, and ending. Most of the lore here is just flapping about saying "ooooh something cool might happen! in the dlc...maybe next game? Oooooh!" or "Aww you JUST missed it, tarnished, there were all these gods and battles, and eldritch monsters, and curses and magics and armies and wow it was awesome it all happened literally 5 minutes ago bro you should've been there.". Its triteness does much to discredit it.

>>715537346
>You can warp there from the 4 Belfries in Liurnia.
Because the Nox discovered teleportation through portals through darkness.
Darkness is the absence of Casuality, the opposite of Light. Azur and Lusat respectively witnessed the origin and end of the Universe. Glintstone Sorcery is entirely based on the power to defy Casuality

>When Azur glimpsed into the primeval current, he saw darkness. He was left both bewitched and fearful of the abyss.

>When Lusat glimpsed into the primeval current, he beheld the final moments of a great star cluster, and upon seeing it, he too was broken.

>Bernahl and Alexander both are found in Farum Azula and neither has a Maiden (anymore).
Bernahl's maiden already burned, while Alexander can travel on his own and acquires Fire with the Fire Giant

>I don't think there's any reason to think that the Godskins are zombies.
I didn't say that. You can see they spawn in Blackflames because Farum Azula defies Casuality. They are already dead in the same way you can kill Gurranq and Maliketh is unaffected. This ties GEQ to Farum Azula, undeniably considering Maliketh is thete holding the Rune of Death
>The GEQ is not linked to Godwyn, for whom the Sun Realm is based on.
The Sun Realm has nothing to do with Godwyn, that's ludicrous
>>715538562
>Gideon was just angry and bitter
No, you just want to dismiss what he says
>>715538761
You can actually see Metyr links incantations and sorceries both as originated from the Stars with her staff casting both
>>715538790
>They actively take actions against each other
They don't, though. In fact, Marika shatters both so that they can merge because he is not YET a God, but he comes through the communion in the end. The rest is just fanfiction trying to image how Marika and Radagon are these enemies despite nothing indicating it
>she doesn't hate it necessarily but she knowingly and intentionally sabotaged it with the shattering.
She didn't

The hornsents deserves total extermination, down to the very last.

>>715539110
Same. Finished my first playthrough a week and a half ago and was let down. All of the endings suck too.

>>715541515
marring ranni was kino idc

>>715540786

>>715541796
based

Elden Ring is what made me truly understand what the unreliable narrator trope is.
Miquella wasn't Elden Ring Jesus.
Mohg was innocent, manipulated and framed.

>>715542124
That's not what the unreliable narrator is, dumbass

>>715538790
Why did Marika shatter Radagon and herself if she did not want to merge?

>>715541740
I hate Ranni, specifically because of how blatantly the devs try to shoehorn you into liking her. I just wanna kill her more than anyone else because they're so hellbent on making her invincible for no reason that makes any sense.

>>715542370
Then what it is? Item descriptions and character dialogue are narration in my opinion, and the game is also providing you with false information.
Also, you haven't disagreed with my point that Mohg's was manipulated by Miquella.

>>715536862
You accuse others of confirmation bias for drawing inferences to connect known information and complain when I don't provide the exact quotes when I use dialogue for evidence but you're response to my argument is just saying no then stating your interpretation without providing any sources from the game as to why you think that or what specifically about my line of logic you disagree with.
The idea that the shattering is sabotage of the golden order is a logical conclusion of what is previously established about the nature of the Elden Ring and the golden order.
>Elden Ring embodies order
>the order it embodies is determined by what runes are in it
>the configuration of the ring during Marika's rule is the "golden order" with its most notable change being the sealing of the rune of death
>Marika breaks the ring therefore breaking the order
>this is confirmed by NPCs like Bernahl referring to the golden order as "collapsed" or other referring to it as something that needs to be restored or repaired
>by shattering the ring it opens up the possibility of someone someone changing the runes and making a new order (the banishment of the tarnished could've been a contingency for this scenario but I've always found this idea to be tenuous)
If there's a part of this line of thinking that you disagree with feel free to say it, but you're being hypocritical by complaining about my standard of evidence while giving these dismissive half-assed non-arguments.
You never even addressed my point that they are taking directly opposite actions, you just gave your interpretation of Marika's intentions which doesn't change that Radagon is actively trying to undo what she's doing and your explanation doesn't even line up with what we see because, as can be seen in the announcement trailer and the intro slideshow, the two of them were already inhabiting one body at this point.

>>715542857
>the game is also providing you with false information.
Item descriptions never say falsehoods, at most they omit things.

>>715543589
Despite not directly saying false things, omission is still false information, lying, because it's misleading.
Ask any lawyer about this.

>>715543765
It is not considered perjury to not omit information under oath, you fucking retard.

>>715543154
There's no point to address. Your argument relies on taking the words of Marika and spinning it with dubious interpretation.
Marika didn't sabotage the Order because the Order because the entire point of the Shattering is her becoming an actual Goddess. Marika IS the Golden Order, and is constantly in control and entirely unopposed. She commands Radagon, that diligently complies, she cuts off the Two Fingers and she ends up achieving exactly what she wants. She searches the depth of the Golden Order, and the final boss is the literal foundation of it, the Elden Ring in its primordial form which she can summon after merging with Radagon.

There's absolutely zero evidence that Radagon was against Marika. It's a made up cope theory to give meaning to Marika's action before we knew about the Sacred Rite Scroll, but that wasn't needed because I always knew Radagon was on the side of Marika based entirely on Marika's words and actions

>>715502725
Miquella's Haligtree was never about his ascension per say, it was about creating a new Erdtree, which Marika actually signed off on. He watered the tree with his own body and blood, but the ritual couldn't be completed.

There are also clues to the making of the great trees in Nightreign through the sacrificial maidens of the cutting-gifted tribe creating a spirit tree.

Miquella intended to ascend with Radahn regardless, but getting captured by Mohg was never necessarily the plan. Radahn's only cost to Miquella's request was to be defeated in combat—it was essentially how Miquellla would "earn" Radahn's favor, so Miquella sent Malenia to do the deed. The whole plan got botched through Malenia's defeat. However, he likely intended for Mohg to be the sacrifice for Radahn's rebirth after Radahn made his request.

When Miquella was ready to journey through the Land of Shadow, he sent for his charmed knights—Leda most of all—and they were tasked with eliminating Mogh. However, the Tarnished beat her to it.

The DLC actually made it clear that everything Miquella did was in effort to be contrary to his mother, though he was the most favored of Marika anyways. Though it only proved that Miquella was more like Marika than any of her other children, and he was walking down the same dark path Marika took to ascenscion—though Miquella's journey was literally a metaphysical discarding of demigod aspects, it mirrored Marika's journey of discarding her emotions, her empathy, her love, and all that made her human—that's why godhood is a prison.

So yeah, it's incredibly easy to understand.

>>715544954
>Marika didn't sabotage the Order because the Order because the entire point of the Shattering is her becoming an actual Goddess
This is exactly what I'm talking about WHY do you think this? You just say no then fill in your own interpretation without evidence. You call mine dubious but you can't even point out what you disagree or back up your own with counter-evidence and then you complain my point has zero evidence when you're just choosing to dismiss it because it doesn't conform to your headcanon.
>Marika IS the Golden Order
No the Elden Ring is the embodiment of Order and Marika is its vessel, this isn't an interpretation this is just stated by Enia.
>There's absolutely zero evidence that Radagon was against Marika.
Except the Marika's hammer descriptions which I have continuously brought up and you keep dancing around it and dismissing it for no reason.
Or the fact that Marika's actions directly undermine the GO and the fact that the shattering led to the "collapse" of the golden order as described in-game.
I am probably incorrectly about a lot of things but everything I've said has been supported by evidence that is either in-game or from one of the trailers. If you think the conclusions don't match up then thats fine but I've explained pretty thoroughly why I interpret Marika's intentions the way I do using evidence from the known actions of both Marika and Radagon. You say there's nothing to refute despite my post having direct counter evidence to your outlandish claims (shattering was to merge Marika+Radagon... despite us seeing them already merged in the two versions of that event we've been shown).

>>715498194
>DUH ITS NOT ARETCON NO I DIDNT SAY THE FINAL BOSSS WAS A SHIT MOD TO TROLLING LEAKS AS COPIUM

>>715500407
IF she wasnt the "cute" redhead girl poster of elden ring teaser everyone vilify her

>>715544954
she was an insane jar tranny in her menopause

>>715543589
>Sword of eclipse and that one of random mitsbegotten ice cave showing michella cared a lot for godwynn it would even rape the laws of life and death to bring him back

>brings back reddahn

>>715541740
she didnt do a handjob with her ring to characters genitals as vow in dork souls 3 you got free necrophilia

>>715523068
Not even discussing the sun realm stuff, but I never noticed that the spirit cadnlesticks are nearly identical to the candlesticks in Elphael. I'm curious as to what the relation is to the spirits with Miquella.

>>715547057
It's incredibly easy to understand thematically, because Miyazaki is a retard who will just write in an essay thesis statement for a character like 'Miquella discarded his love in his quest for godhood' and retards will lap it up like it's functional drama.

What's completely incoherent is the action Miquella takes from moment to moment. Miquella cocoons himself in the Haligtree despite knowing Radahn was still alive, none of his followers are present at the Radahn festival to try and kill him, none of his followers are doing anything to try and kill Mohg. None of his actions follow a coherent thread to achieve a goal, a lot of them outright contradict each other.

This stuff is pure shit that fools mongoloids because there is a theme attached to the character.

>>715542124
>the lord of blood is innocent i swear just like in warhammer 40k with horus in a future retcon

>>715548098
the game is so schizo even datamined changed every item lore KEK ans sadly make a better coherent npc questlines without the retarded hub for retarded normies

>>715504361
They're the titans the Nox were attempting to ritualistically ascend into their Lord of Night. That's why all the eternal cities have remains of screaming dead fused to the very stones of their halls and spires. The Nox ritual was attempting to mimic the Hornsent's Gate of Divinity and the Secret Rite (or the Hornsent were mimicking the Nox's ritual, but the Nox never figured it out and the Hornsent did). Either way, the Nox botched the fucking ritual and they started working with mimic tears, god slaying weapons (which metaphysically cut through the glintstone thread of fate), and strange duplication transmutations (seen in Noklateo).

>>715548098
I like that miquellas plan to resurect radahn hinged on a previously unknown brother abducting him. Mohg was totally unknown until he abducted Miquella, that or Miquella mind controlled Mohg a long time ago and this was all some master plan. idk, its retarded regardless. Miquella cocooned himself in shame and disgrace for being so fucking dumb.

>>715547197
>WHY do you think this?
Because that's what happens and what constitutes a Goddess in Elden Ring
>You just say no then fill in your own interpretation without evidence.
It's not my interpretation. Read the Sacred Rite Scroll
>>Marika IS the Golden Order
>No the Elden Ring is the embodiment of Order and Marika is its vessel
Which makes her the Golden Order. The Golden Order is the belief that Marika is Goddess
It was created by Marika, its upheld by Marika
>Except the Marika's hammer descriptions
Nowhere it implies that Marika and Radagon are foes anywhere. It implies that Radagon has the role of mending the Order back together as the Two merge, after Marika purposefully Shattered it and Radagon both.
If Marika did not want for Radagon to mend the Order, she had no reason to shatter him in the first place
>Or the fact that Marika's actions directly undermine the GO
They don't undermine anything. Marika is the Golden Order and the Shattering is meant to benefit her
>but everything I've said has been supported by evidence
No, you extrapolate the bare minimum and give it your own interpretation. Your argument that Radagon and Marika are not allies hinges entirely on Radagon ending the Ring, but Gideon states to have been contacted by Marika and sent away, and we see Marika herself turning into Radagon because the Two had merged.
You decide to ignore this or claim it's just lies becuase you can't spin everything in a way that fits your theory.
Thats the difference between you and me. My lore comes from conjoining every single element in a unified solid theory, and you rely on arbitrarily dismissing evidence and giving more than generous interpretations.
>She called him leal hound, she is insulting him
What kind of bullshit retarded argument is that?
>Marika hates the Golden Order
Except she is the only leader and holder of it. Neither the Elden Beast (who did not even exist in its form) nor the Fingers have any agency, but sure Marika is a suicidal schizo

>>715548098
Miquella was already cocooned before Malenia's defeat. I think he was confident Malenia would have killed Radahn. I'm pretty certain he intended on Malenia killing Mohg as well. Obviously, his plan went to shit (as always).

As for the festival of war, Jerren literally mentions that the killing of Radahn in combat fulfilled an oath he made (or something along those lines. He felt he needed to give Radahn the warrior's death he deserved)—Jerren wasn't a redmane. Either Jerren was working under the wishes of Miquella, or Miquella was already sending champions to defeat Radahn and they failed time and again. Jerren is a strange entity in that he's seemingly aligned in the past with several of the demigods—Ranni and Radahn for sure. He might be a play on a classical questing knight.

>>715515238
>nothing to do with him, death, and undeath was touched on in the DLC
except there was
you find godwyn faces and deathroots growing in more abundance in the DLC catacombs, as well as death knights guarding them
the lore implication is that his body is slowly but very surely growing and spreading

>>715500206
>gave birth to some twins
>but also "eventually became the same person"
Huh?? What is this game?

>>715549047
>Miquella was already cocooned before Malenia's defeat.
Freya explicitly tells you Miquella was wandering around Caelid in the aftermath of Malenia's scarlet rot bloom.

Not even going to bother to read the rest when you are going to confidently argue a point while getting basic facts that the game tells you outright wrong.

>>715549445
dont care that retarded retconned dlc

>>715549047
>I think he was confident Malenia would have killed Radahn.
That niggas 50 feet tall and is holding planets in alignment because hes thinking really hard about it. What the fuck did Miquella expect? Radahn didnt need his horse until his feet rotted off, he just loved Lenard because thats his loyal steed. A 50 foot monster that can suspend the orbit of fucking stars and planets vs 1 smol widdle bean with a knife.

Miquellas dumber than I thought.
Even when the bitch rot-bombed him it just made Radahn turn slightly dumber, not so dumb he forgot his gravity magic or how to fight though.

>>715549309
grr martin japanese edition

>>715548098
The entire "he discarded his love" shit is also an impactless nothingburger because not only do we have no idea what he was like before this happened (too bad he doesn't have an entire band of NPCs and his literal discarded half who could've given some basic personal insight), but everything bad that he did happens before he abandons his love. Why should we give a shit? Not to mention that this aspect of his story is not reflected in the final boss even slightly, because it was more important to have him remind the player that Radahn is his consort four seperate times than following through on his own fucking character arc.

>>715547920
>Not even discussing the sun realm stuff, but I never noticed that the spirit cadnlesticks are nearly identical to the candlesticks in Elphael
Candlestick and Sun Realm are inherently bound. The Order of the Sun Realm was an Order of Light, with a grace of Light resembling but different from the current one, where spirits were lead by guiding lamps from their Catacombs right to Helphen, instead of going through the Erdtree with burial.

Spirit candlesticks try to lead to the Haligtree which is meant to offer guidance to the dead in the same way, but doesn't work because there's always light in the Lands Between, symbol of the Eternal Life cycle and removal of Death.

>>715549445
Typical faggot response.

The Haligtree was already "fully" formed when Finlay dragged Malenia's rotted body to Elphael, dumbfuck. So Miquella had to have been already coccooned for the tree to even fucking grow.
It's pretty clear he can move independently of the cocooned form, as he was physically traversing the Land of Shadow while his cocooned adult form lay in Mohg's Mausoleum.

Freya was likely charmed by Miquella's child form.

Not even going to bother reading anything from (you) anon when you are going to confidently argue a point while getting basic facts that the game tells you outright wrong.

>>715549690
You're not supposed to feel bad about Miquella at all. Miquella is essentially just a bratty spoiled child that would do anything to have his way that he felt was justified and pure. St. Trina is literally a plot device to show Miquella is an abuser, though she loves him. "For his own good", she asks you to kill him. He goes into godhood expecting he's prepared and the entire game shows you he never had what it takes to be a god.

>>715549690
Really well said, this also made me laugh pretty hard.
>(too bad he doesn't have an entire band of NPCs and his literal discarded half who could've given some basic personal insight)
No shit. The traditional souls way of story telling sorta goes out the window when people can just fucking TELL you stuff. No need to be mysterious about it. just lay it all out ffs

Not even going to bother reading anything

>>715550410
From this thread or in general?

>>715549565
They're demigods. Malenia was the only one powerful enough around that Miquella could boss around to fight Radahn. Morgott probably could have killed Radahn, but Morgott didn't give a fuck about any of the other demigods' faggy plans.

>>715539812
>nox discovered teleportation
Basically unprovable.
But regardless warp gates are common throughout the Lands Between and plenty of people could go to the Four Belfries or any other private warps they have to Farum Azula.

Bernahl had a maiden, but she died long ago. So current access or recent warping by a Maiden isn't a key part of getting to Farum Azula.
And for Alexander just having the Forge's fire wouldn't give him the ability to teleport to the dragon dimension. The cause and effect there is too vague.

The Sun Realm is heavily linked to Godwyn.
The Sun Realm shield is carried by Those Who Live In Death. And it is a direct predecessor to the Death Knights' Eclipse sigil.
When Godwyn was alive he was probably associated with sun iconography, and when his soul was killed, his followers began to wear and Eclipse in his honor.

>>715501475
It's a beautiful game that makes people want to draw the world they traversed and experienced.
You don't see the same amount of love from the community in any modern western game

>>715550648
>Morgott probably could have killed Radahn
Theirs no fucking way. Not even when he was all rotted up on the island.

>>715542518
Shattering herself, which was an inevitability of breaking the Elden Ring that was so bound to her, was the same as shattering Radagon because they were bound in body.

>>715550772
I mean, he had already beaten Radahn before.

>>715544954
Goldmask's Ending makes it clear how the Order and the Gods within it are not the same thing.
The Order can even be harnessed to bind and strip the identities and personalities away from the Gods.

>>715550968
When he was a little kid? Judging from his size he was like 5 years old. No gravity magic, no nothing.

>>715548804
>Because that's what happens
Thats not stated outright so you need to support this claim
>Read the Sacred Rite Scroll
Okay
"A lord will usher in a god's return,
and the lord's soul will require a vessel."
Yes a god needs a lord and a lord needs a body. Marika meets these requirements before the shattering. Miquella needed to jump through hoops because of Radahn's unique situation.
>They don't undermine anything. Marika is the Golden Order and the Shattering is meant to benefit her
Shattering it breaks the order, I don't know what part of this you don't get. When the ring is broken, order is broken. When you reforge it, its no longer the same order. It might be basically the same shit (fracture ending) or the same principle with a small amendment to try to fix the issue (mending rune endings) but when its reforged it is no longer the "golden order" its a new stronger order for a new age. It might be something like "the order of white gold" like Miquella originally wanted but its still a different order.
>Shattering is meant to benefit her
I agree with this, I've said before that she shattered the ring because her end goal requires her to.
>If Marika did not want for Radagon to mend the Order, she had no reason to shatter him in the first place
Because she is the vessel for the Elden Ring and so shattering the ring shatters her. We see Radagon and Marika get swapped out between shots during this process, indicating they are in the same body at this point, so naturally Marika shattering the ring shatters herself in the body she shares with Radagon.
>No, you extrapolate the bare minimum and give it your own interpretation
Extrapolating based on limited information is literally the point, we are both doing, I'm just providing an explanation as to where these ideas come from.
>Marika herself turning into Radagon because the Two had merged.
This doesn't contradict anything I said, they are 2 characters in 1 body with different motivations and goals.

The only thing I liked about the DLC, is that despite being unfinished enough for them to rehash a boss to get a final boss, is that its thematically on point.
Where do we go? Where Marika has sealed her sins, and most of the past.

What makes it more interesting is than what is cut vs what survives via architecture
>Gloom Eyed Queen knight, lampshading the need for a Death ritual between Cremeation and Erdtree burial, creating the need for a rival to Marika
>Hornsent lining up really well for base game
>Base game gear depicting the shadow keep
>Frontporting the Tibia was more important than correctly placing it in the isle of past sins
>Hornsent, Omens and Pee Pee Poo Poo man
>Marika's vail ends up absolutely nowhere
>Stormsveils fucked up shape

I don't believe anything that isn't explicitly mentioned in-game

Radagon and Marika should have remained separate people. You should have entered the boss fog and found Marika imprisoned and Radagon trying to repair the Elden Ring.

>>715551463
They dont mention that you need to take your pants off before you shit.

>>715551519
Ergo people in the Lands Between don't shit, which makes the poopoo eater all the more loathsome

>>715551001
The Elden Ring exists independent of the gods/demigods. Micheal Zaki himself describes it as a "metphysical aspect of the world". Each ring represents a part of the order of the land. The Greater Will sent the Elden Ring as something wholly spiritual, physical, and metaphysically abstract.

Because of its metaphysical nature, the god of the realm can change the aspects of the elden ring to change the very laws of the world around them. The Elden Ring is like a set of levers that can be moved around and switched, and new connections and levers can be added or removed as is desired, fundamentally changing the aspects of nature.

In Farum Azula, a depiction of the Elden Ring is brandished in the temple—it is the actual form of the Elden Ring before Marika's ascension. The sigil of the golden order (though this may be a bit of a headcanon) could be the form of the elden ring once the rune of destined death was removed and the shardbearers stole the other bits as they could find.

>>715551638
xD
The guy has 1 job and he cant even do it. Disgraceful.

>>715501475
Because it has a lot more clear interpersonal drama than other Miyazaki games.

>>715551080
The second defense of Leyndell is Morgott defeating Radahn. Radahn was already in Caelid by this time for an untold amount of time, as it was his redmanes attacking the city. While he was in Caelid, he was studying gravity magic in Sellia, so yes, he very likely already knew gravity magic when he attacked Leyndell.

>>715551852
Im calling bullshit. Morgott jumped a baby in a crib and called it a win. look at the picture. Come talk to me when he tries that shit with Kaiju-Radahn.
We kick Morgotts ass solo or with the help of one little girl. We need like 20 guys to kill a fucked up braindead zombie Radahn after however many attempts were made. Hes on an island eating dead guys and the only water source is sea water.

>>715551001
Correct.
But to MEND the Elden Ring, Goldmask still require you to shank the Elden Beast so you can actually manipulate the form of the Elden Ring. After that you may or may not get cucked by Marika, so you only get the ability to mend the ring, not alter it further.

>>715551647
>The sigil of the golden order
That is exactly the point.
As the Golden Order stabilized, it stagnated, creating the need to research it. Erdtree object of Faith, etc. People don't get born from the tree sap at a decent rate either, only as rituals.

>>715499080
Based

>>715519630
>If I know that Godwyn's "faces" are actually seeded facial pustules placed exactly in burial sites
The Death Knight armor description literally says "quested to find their transfigured master's cadaver surrogate", nothing was planted. It's why they went to the shadow realm to begin with.
The reason the third knight couldn't find any and just died there is because the third Godwyn offshoot sprouted in Stormveil instead.

>>715552186
Eh, believe what you want, but Morgott kicked his ass. If you also check Radahn's armor in the depiction, he's wearing his matured set of armor, not his "Young Lion" set from the DLC. So, Morgott is kicking the shit out of a mature Radahn that already knew gravity magic.

>>715518536
Why did you draw some random shape around these motifs?
Also the smaller towers on this >>715517883
picture doesn't have these sharpened battlements while the one on the shield does

>>715549309
Radagon/Marika are either alter egos spitting out babies on their own, two characters who eventually merged, split personalities committing selfcest or some combination of the above. Their kids are cursed so I'm saying selfcest.

>>715552559
((((Omen)))) lies. Awful convenient the same guy lying about beating up a toddler just happens to be chilling in the city, not doing anything, as the world burns around him. Know what would protect the capitol? Killing the lords and taking their shards so he could become a true Lord.

>>715552559
have you ever considered that its Rykard by looking at that gay ass sword?

>>715550968
schizo datamine said this is samael vs god of vengeance

This entire thread is one subhuman retard posting fanfics and everyone else shitting on him

lorelet here: where is the land of shadow located? is it a part of the lands between but obscured by marika? also, thoughts about putrescent knight? maybe it's just me but i feel like the boss was created to be annoying

>>715552756
I fixed it up for you

>>715553042
>is it a part of the lands between but obscured by marika?
yeah, it's obvious to be in the giant crater you see on the base elden ring map, but the actual dlc map doesn't fit at all
it could simply just be fromsoftware not caring about geographical boundaries

>>715553023
Every single ER thread.

>>715552941
>>715553015
oh shit.

>>715519981
Have you heard of gothic architecture? what if the sword is le refence to ANor Londo?? woah

>>715553042
The implication with the Suppressing Pillar and veils is that it was originally the center of the continent, and a good portion of the geography seems to match, but it's also bigger than the missing chunk of map and seems to have unusual metaphysical properties so there might be more going on.
One point that really sticks out to me that I haven't seen get discussed is how Jarburg is roughly where Liurnia would have connected with Belurat/Enir-Ilim, and Raya Lucaria seems to have taken some inspiration from Enir-Ilim itself.

>>715553042
Yes, but it makes me wonder what the entrance was suppose to be, since Enir-Ilim makes it very explicit that it was suppose to be sealed. Same with the grave of the Gloom Eyed Queen, if such a thing where even intended to be ingame instead of just blatantly being erased by history.

We go in via Mogh because that makes sense from a gameplay perspective, as a afterthought. Because its accessible enough from midgame, but more likely lategame
But it do make me wonder how and where the original intent was.

>marika gets shoved into a jar and comes out and fists a snake and becomes a god on a crusade to cleanse the land but is also a tranny that gives birth to some kids that she gets from fucking her enemies and herself
um

>>715553370
Im still salty that we couldn't save Gwyndolin. We were like 10 min away from being able to save our boy from Aldrich the drippy-poo man. I think thats why im still upset about not being able to help Miquella. It would of added closure, even though this time the weak femboys actually the drippy-poo monster.

>>715553991
Just as THE ONE GREAT has intended it

>>715553991
>and fists a snake
Marika herself is a snake taking on human form. That's why there's shed skin outside Bonney Village.

>>715509181
Marika's butthole

>>715553390
>>715553193
ok, thanks, maybe this is digging too deep but is there an explanation for how that would work? I mean ships have to travel there, is it a very strong illusion or that world teleported to a pocket dimension somehow?

>>715552941
It's not, but it doesn't matter because Morgott still fought Radahn in Leyndell and Radahn lost.

>>715498174 (OP)
Is Marika the giga-est Stacy in vidya?

>>715554714
The Marika/Radagon statue is already in the base game, which showcase that. And i assume it was important enough to warrant being kept.
The ships are even more interesting, because the Cerula coast is suppose to be downstream of all the underground rivers.

If the method to get there isn't cut content, my vote would be on taking the boat cruise and starting in the Cerulean coast. But that is weird, since there is the Gloom Eyed queen ruins just right there.

>>715555201
The default ending her has cucking you.

I don't believe Radahn ever agreed to anything with Miquella, and Miquella's admiration for him didn't come with any real understanding of Radahn as a person.
Miquella describes the player as "lord of the old order" as opposed to the age of compassion he seeks, but that perfectly describes Radahn instead.
Radahn is a fanboy of the leader of the tarnished himself, a bloodthirsty barbarian masquerding as a lord who led most of the wars that established Marika's order. The red hair he got from Radagon that he takes pride in is itself a curse from one of her genocided foes. He men continue the massacres in the castles they took.
He even tried to take Leyndell by himself, showing that he sought the Elden Throne and to continue the old order. His unwillingness to let go of his horse and still holding the stars and fate in place while nearly mindless from rot show how he's an embodiment of stagnation. As far as we know the stars part didn't have anything to do with Miquella's goals, and was likely one of the things that prevented the eclipse (I think Ranni was also involved in sabotaging that for her own reasons though).

But Miquella didn't understand any of that. All he saw from a distance was some idol of strength and nobility. The remembrance spells it out; Radahn being his consort was nothing more than Miquella's childish wish.
Above all, the fact that he didn't try to bring back the horse too shows he didn't truly know Radahn.

>>715555201
no because I killed my future mother in law and took her daughter

>>715555872
>His unwillingness to let go of his horse and still holding the stars and fate in place while nearly mindless from rot show how he's an embodiment of stagnation
No, he just loves his horse :)
And why would he let the stars go? He made them his bitch, they were his.
True that Miquella didn't understand him/cared about his wishes. But Radahn isn't ment to represent stagnation. In Miyazaki's games, violence is ultimately the only thing that saves the world from decay and death. Miquella stopping everyone from exercising it is what would bring true stagnation.

Radagon was also Godwyn and Marika's cooperation with the assassination plot was to get rid of him, since she realized he was aligned with the fingers and with the new group of empyreans they were planning to dispose of her.
Radagon and Godwyn have the exact same manner of dress and Radagon's statue is at the Stormcaller church just outside the monument to the dragon war.

Ohhhh lorefags...I got a little surprise for youuuu

>>715499171
I had to see what happened.

Do the anons that say "Elden slop" ever think they are actively changing our minds against this game? It just seems pathetic and I don't know who it's supposed to convince.

>>715530763
>homo sex pests grooming each other
This is unironically headcanon and unveils a deep desire within you. This never happened in the game and your Western mind can't think of any other relationship between two beings than perversion.

>people seriously dissecting the "story" out of something that is basically sparknotes from item descriptions and vague musings from the devs who self-admittedly don't pay attention or care for anything they say

>>715557928
I think it's two things:
1. Lazy contrarianism made into a hobby.
2. They want to insult the game but are too cowardly to do it in places where there's actual fanboys since they'd have a name tied to the posts, so they do it here instead even though this is where serious criticism of the game can already be found.

I am not sure how widely this is known, but older Armored Core games have a companion system that lets you hire an NPC pilot to help you with your mission.
These companions are refered to as "consorts". And no you don't fuck them. Make of that what you will.

>>715558267
The careless way From treats it with the rewrites and asset repurposing saddens me since I actually like the setting.

>>715547747
>>Sword of eclipse
Says nothing of reviving
>>Ice cave
I assume you mean the Cave of the Forlorn which only contains Miquella's Lilies. Its boss uses Radagon's former sword.
Unless you mean the Golden Epitaph, which is found in the Auriza Hero Grave just outside Leyndell, which wishes Godwyn dies for real.

>>715558408
So what you're saying is that Radahn is meant to be a mecha that Miquella is piloting?

>fromsoft lore threads
>anons arguing and theorizing
I love these threads so much.

>>715557918
Enjoy an artist too based for /v/.

>>715558537
One day we are gonna lose what we have here and have to resort to discussion of Alloy's daughter's facial hair on Horizon Zero Dawn 3. Enjoy it while it lasts.

>>715558830
I am.

>>715543765
This isn't a court case, it's a story.

>>715558830
The last time discussion of anything related to a From game was fun was maybe DaS3. Since then its been a downward spiral of idiocy.

>>715553042
It is impossible to cleanly fit into the map anywhere.

Are you retards really going on about the Law of Eldering? Miyazaki literally made shit up and rewrote shit as the story went along. Are you really too blind to see this? This whole game is rewritten as it was made, a billion times. Miyazaki himself wasn't sure what he was fucking doing. In the middle of the game, despite that already having set flags to activate and basically being finished, was completely written out of the game and changed, despite the content still being in the game. There is literally content for a game that's entirely different in the game files. Miquella was supposed to be in the fucking halig tree and have the Great Rune of Abundance, because of that he was youthful. Malenia had the Great Rune of Decay, because of that she was decaying. This wasn't some they wrote this down and then scrapped that. They literally had this created with the intention up until that point, even the flags in the game were set for that. How do you see all of that and think, oh yeah, this lore has any meaning whatsoever? This game was shipped, version 1.0, with half the text of all descriptions missing, because they were rewriting shit. At some points even, the description was different between the languages. They had old content, for example in the Chinese version of 1.0, that described the Great Rune of grafting, which was Godricks, which was the reason why he was having limbs grafted to him. It had nothing to do with Numen. Everything is made up afterwards. This entire game was created with an entirely different vision, and then it was rewritten, despite this game already being created for one vision.
>Everything is destroyed?
It was supposed to have set events that would continuously change the entire world, this was great towards the end which is the reason why the last third of the game is literally just copy and paste the enemies. It was supposed to be a continuously changing world which had set flags that would continuously shape the world.

>STOP TALKING ABOUT ELDEN RING LORE IT'S ALL MADE UP
No I don't think I will.

>>715558537
Its always either the smartest or stupidest shit you ever heard, all jumbled together.
Not much out there can match it.

>>715559741
>They had old content, for example in the Chinese version of 1.0, that described the Great Rune of grafting
Wasn't it Great Rune of Connections instead?

>>715559741
All games have cut content.

>>715559949
Something like that, my point is just that the whole game DOES NOT make any sense lmao. For example You had a quest that was connected to Miquella. For this quest, over 100 specific icons were created. For this quest, sleeping animations for basically every single animal were created, including many NPCs. For this quest was created an NPC that you could interact with that had many voice lines. All of this was already set in the game. With flags just needing to be set to =true. Animals were all over the map sleeping, and this was all cut. This would have been connected to Miquella. And people are like, oh yeah man, he absolutely has no significance, this was early in development. This was literally in the test network, to an extreme great degree. It was just that they finally didn't have any time and had to cut basically everything.The crazy part for me personally is that they had all of that. A great many quests were greatly developed. They would have just needed to continue that. And instead, they left 50 things unfinished. They could have had 20 finished things, instead they had 50 unfinished things. It makes no sense. Absolutely bad direction. The question is always, what did we get in return? Malenia would have been a full fucking NPC questline, where you could have interacted with her. What did you get in return? Nothing. The whole miwuella side quest about the dreams, nothing. There would have been animals all over the map sleeping, nothing. All the hidden dialogue for the NPCs, cut. Nothing in its place. This is literally the wasted potential game. Changing map? Nope. Hidden NPC dialogue? Nope. Miquella ending? Nope. Great rune weapons? Nope. The annoying part is we could have gotten this and all of this was simply not used and what did we get in return for it? Nothing. You have the fallout of people coping that this is just an amazing game and the lore is totally coherent.

>>715560658
Elden Ring's finished product is just plainly incoherent. Miyazaki seems to have some sort of fetish for editing his games to the point of butchery, the more control he has the worse it gets.

>>715500206
this would be way hotter if marika and maliketh also had a kid together, and marika and that half dog kid had a kid together
someone post that family tree hentai dojin

>>715560745
It's utterly fucking insane to me that pretty much every instance of cut content we can find just either has nothing or a very obvious downgrade to replace it. Kale's quest had some of the best voice acting in the game, and what do we get instead? Irina/Hyetta which is somehow so shoddily put together that you can go back band see Irina's body still laying in Limgrave after meeting Hyetta. We had a whole quest with Malenia, that would have allowed you to actually meaningfully interact with one of the demigods, presumably learn all about her history and motivations in a manner that would be actually compelling, and what do we get instead? Millicent, a complete nothingburger of a character who is just some kind of offbrand Malenia, and Malenia herself just fights you for absolutely no reason when you show up in her boss room.

Miyazaki is a mental invalid who destroys his own work time and time again, and the ONLY thing carrying his worlds at this point is the art direction and the voice actors who do the best with the scripts they're given. That's really it.

>>715561408
They probably realized in all likelihood that some people would be far too stupid and incompetent to beat certain quests. I think Asimi for example would've been a relatively standard quest forcing people to earn the best summon in game. Instead it gets cut. Forcing players to complete Malenia's quest so you can fight her would've alienated people, evident by how so many of them couldn't find or ended up botching Millicent's quest. It doesn't help that the world is huge. I found Blaidd in the evergaol by accident by running around Limgrave. I didn't even know Bok was in a bush until a later patch despite running past that area several times and hearing nothing. While Fromsoft needs to make better, less nonsensical quest they also realize in a post Oblivion world that people couldn't complete them if they tried. They're just gonna google or reddit the solution after 5 minutes of frustration.

>>715560759
>Elden Ring's finished product is just plainly incoherent
It's not.
If stuff was cut it's because it didn't fit in the game's correct vision.
>>715561115
>Malenia herself just fights you for absolutely no reason
You are Tarnished and after her Great Rune. You're also after her needle if you want to cure yourself of the Three Fingers.

>>715560759
>Elden Ring's finished product is just plainly incoherent
It's not.
If stuff was cut it's because it didn't fit in the game's correct vision.
>>715561408
>Malenia herself just fights you for absolutely no reason
You are Tarnished and after her Great Rune. You're also after her needle if you want to cure yourself of the Three Fingers.

>>715501475
Because it made Souls games go mainstream. Keep up.

>>715560745
It's fairly normal for games (or anything with a story) to be rewritten or have things cut. What exactly doesn't make sense?

>>715558537
Same, anon

>>715562212
Kek, you have literally no idea how game development works. The entire shit got changed midway through. A good western comparison would be BioShock infinite. Read up on the rewrites about that game and then come back and tell me how normal this is. No, changing half the story midway through development is not normal. Also, no, it it not normal to have whole quests basically be completely implemented and then removed because one dude said "uhm actually I changed the lore, remove it".

>>715562503
And why would Fromsoft do what's normal? It's their game. It could be better, but what we got is already amazing.

>>715562503
>Kek, you have literally no idea how game development works
Perhaps I don't, but neither do you so this attack falls flat.
Do you have stats at what point and and how much is rewritten/cut in an average game? Stop speaking out of your ass.
And how was the story fundamentally changed?

>>715501475
>Why does the game that sold more than the rest of the franchise combined have a lot of fan art?

>get unalloyed gold needle from Millicent
>bring it to Malenia
>You get Miquella's needle back
My understanding is that you need to take it to Farum Azula because then you're beyond the reach of FF's grubby fingers but never understood this detail

>>715562017
>If stuff was cut it's because it didn't fit in the game's correct vision.
Why does the game's correct vision involve extremely obvious continuity error's like Irina's body still being present at Limgrave after it's supposed to be repossessed by a chaos spirit named Hyetta?

>>715498174 (OP)
>>715498194
eternal reminder

>>715564818
How is that relevant? A quest was cut, Irina's quest is in, even if there's a continuity error inside.

>>715566343
I am fairly certain her corpse disappears after you meet her. Maybe there is some way to keep it from despawning but it's obviously not intended.

>>715509181
Roderika

Shadow of the Erdtree lore is shit and contradicts the base game, therefore is not canon
Bayle is cool

>>715566820
You must have been really mad when it turned out Artorias wasn't a great hero in the DLC to DS1. But that's not canon too, right?

>>715498194
ALLEGATIONS BEATEN

TOTAL MOHGWYN VICTORY

>>715564994
>leak is real XD
>leak is fake XD
What's your point? This happens every game.

>>715564994
What was the leak, you can't just have a bunch of reaction to the leak without posting the original leak

>>715566985
>if you liked a passable story fifteen years ago you must like a dogshit story now, or you're a hypocrite!

>>715564994
>>715567557
I'm blind nvm

>>715566985
>But cometh thee not for the grave of Sir Artorias? My advice true, forget this! The legend of Artorias art none but a fabrication. ...Traversing the dark? 'Tis but a fairy tale.

>>715567707
>t-this d-doesn't count
lmao bitch

>>715566985
NTA but the lore in the dlc is dogshit and I like that people say it and shit on fromsoft both for this and the final boss. Trannies like you just let them get even more complacent and sneakily and return to the dark souls 2 formula of introducing crappy lore that "people" will interpret like an art piece and annoying fuck-you-now-die boss types.

>>715567978
No, a good DLC fifteen years ago doesn't count when compared to the garbage that was SotE. The point isn't that they changed one of the characters, it's that they failed on just about every possible level storytelling can fail.

Nobody owes Miyazaki's tripe any allegiance.

>>715567961
But Artorias did do a covenant with the creatures of the Abyss to fight in New Londo, it just wasn't enough to protect him from Manus.

>>715566985
Artorias was indeed a hero thoughever
>>715568057
Do you seriously see value in "shitting" on something? Dumb pig.
No one in this thread has yet managed to make a coherent critique of the DLC's story. It's just seething about how Miquella was a meanie and yet they thought he was nice and wholesome before.

>>715568057
Elden Ring lore is not a vague setup like DS2, it's a clear picture in which you meet 90% of the actors.

>>715568935
>No one in this thread has yet managed to make a coherent critique of the DLC's story
Why does Miquella cocoon himself in the Haligtree when he knows Radahn is still alive?
Why does Miquella send none of his loyal followers to kill any of the demigods he needs killed for his plan to work?
Why does Miquella abandon his flesh twice?
Why does Ranni kill Godwyn when Miquella demonstrated that it is perfectly possible to abandon your flesh and great run without doing weird murder rituals?

>>715564994
desu I don't blame people for thinking it was fake, it was just that stupid, guess the only reason we got interesting characters at all in the base game is because of GRRM, Japs can't write for shit.

>>715569178
>Why does Miquella cocoon himself in the Haligtree when he knows Radahn is still alive?
He still needs to use his blood to grow the Haligtree. He intends to marry Radhan in spirit form anyways.
>Why does Miquella send none of his loyal followers to kill any of the demigods he needs killed for his plan to work?
Radhan will die to the Rot eventually, and he does send the Needle Knights against Mohg, you just get there first.
>Why does Miquella abandon his flesh twice?
He's divesting himself of all his bodily attachments in the Shadow Realm, going on an ascetic journey.
>Why does Ranni kill Godwyn when Miquella demonstrated that it is perfectly possible to abandon your flesh and great run without doing weird murder rituals?
Because Miquella isn't trying to remove the influence of the Fingers, and Ranni needs to maintain her personality instead of becoming a vehicle like Miquella does.

>>715568935
>Do you seriously see value in "shitting" on something?
>Dumb pig
>literally shitting on me in the very same post
and yes, fromniggers took their "you'll die over and over and over again xD" marketing shit, went into their cuckshed and continued making well designed games instead of basing them around annoying the fuck out of you. ER is an amazing game but they started dipping their toes and coming back to their old tricks again.
>>715568954
I agree, what I meant by that is lazy/moronic story beats which people will autistically dissect like they do in this very thread. I could argue about particulars but I'm off for today and the thread will die anyway.

>>715569658
>He still needs to use his blood to grow the Haligtree.
He was already doing that before he cocooned himself in it. He knows that Radahn isn't dead, and his main objective requires Radahn being dead.
>Radhan will die to the Rot eventually
So your explanation depends on Miquella being retarded?
>He's divesting himself of all his bodily attachments in the Shadow Realm, going on an ascetic journey.
He abandons his flesh once in Mohgwyn palace, and again in pieces through the land of shadow.
>Because Miquella isn't trying to remove the influence of the Fingers
He's trying to build a completely new order that has nothing to do with the fingers, though.

You don't seem well acquainted with the game for being so insistent that the story is so solid.

>>715569658
>He still needs to use his blood to grow the Haligtree. He intends to marry Radhan in spirit form anyways.
The Haligtree was a failure. He can't marry Radahn at all until he's dead
>Radhan will die to the Rot eventually, and he does send the Needle Knights against Mohg, you just get there first.
That's just an assumption and a bad one considering Radahn was around still kicking since the Shattering ended. He could've sent his soldiers/healed Malenia to full strength to beat him, instead they are sitting around doing nothing. He also sends ONE (1) fucking needle knight against Mohg, are you serious?
>He's divesting himself of all his bodily attachments in the Shadow Real
He has two bodies

Stop defending this slop. How the actual fuck do people see Miquella master plan literally involve sitting on his ass and doing nothing for no reason while everything he cares about goes to absolute shit and think it's in any way passable? The entire tragedy of the Haligtree suicide bombers is complete kaput when you realize that he's not even lost, they're literally blowing themselves up for no fucking reason and Miquella just didn't tell them what to do or where he is for the lols

>>715569769
You speak like a pig, it's a fair assumption.
You decided to respond but still failed to write a real argument for anything. Just seething that DLC was too hard, I think?
I know it may surprise you but Miyazaki doesn't run the game's marketing.
>I could argue about particulars
Judging from your posts so far you probably couldn't.

>>715569527
AC6's cast was really fucking good and memorable, Miyazaki is just a hack who's physically incapable of deviating from the same 6 or 7 character archetypes dark souls set up.

>>715570534
At this point I'm 100% convinced that Yamamura is the only reason Bloodborne and Sekiro were any good, Miyazaki genuinely is just stuck remaking the same slop but worse over and over and over again.

>>715570049
>He was already doing that before he cocooned himself in it.
Gonna need a source for that chief.
>So your explanation depends on Miquella being retarded?
Depends on Miquella trusting Malenia.
>He abandons his flesh once in Mohgwyn palace, and again in pieces through the land of shadow.
I know, he's abandoning his connection to the cocooned body.
>He's trying to build a completely new order that has nothing to do with the fingers, though.
Is he really?

>>715526081
EinGay

>>715570336
See >>715570954
Also the soldiers blowing themselves up will guide Miquella back to the Lands Between after his shadow journey is complete.

>>715570954
>Gonna need a source for that chief.
>The surcoat bears the crest of the Haligtree. Though watered with Miquella's own blood since it was a sapling, the Haligtree ultimately failed to grow into an Erdtree.
Retard. Also are you this dumbass >>715550062
>Depends on Miquella trusting Malenia.
He knew she failed to finish him off and that Caelid is a rotted wasteland. There's no timetable for his plan, there is zero reason to proceed at this point without confirming Radahn's death
>I know, he's abandoning his connection to the cocooned body.
What? Not only is this pure headcanon (his cocooned body is never even mentioned in the story btw) he doesn't physically resemble it at all anymore
>Is he really?
Yeah. His order has nothing to do with the Elden Ring

>>715571213
Holy shit you're dumb, the way that description is framed it's clear that they have no idea where he is and think he's lost which is why they're so desperate, which isn't the case. That doesn't even make any fucking sense, why would he not be able to return whenever he wants?

>>715569178
>Why does Miquella cocoon himself in the Haligtree when he knows Radahn is still alive?
Why not? He's waiting for someone to kill him. Also before Malenia tried to bring him with force, they wanted Radahn alive but he refused. I can't remember the exact timeline but it works either way.
>Why does Miquella send none of his loyal followers to kill any of the demigods he needs killed for his plan to work?
Malenia? Also he knows he can use the Tarnished. It worked, so what's the problem?
>Why does Miquella abandon his flesh twice?
The thing in the egg is not his flesh. Does it look like a child to you? Miquella mindbroke Mohg.
>Why does Ranni kill Godwyn when Miquella demonstrated that it is perfectly possible to abandon your flesh and great run without doing weird murder rituals?
Why not? It worked for her. Maybe she hated her siblings. Also Miquella is not Ranni. Just because one can do something doesn't mean the other can too. Miquella is an empyrean.

Really you are just seething that he didn't follow the most optimal possible path that you know only because of hindsight. Sorry, it doesn't work like this.

>>715571414
There's 481 posts itt and most of them were made by a schizophrenic or people seething about the DLC and said schizo. Why do you people waste your time? It's a common opinion that the story was lackluster or downright bad in shadow of the erdtree, at least when it comes to Miquella so you don't need to defend your precious opinions.

>>715571259
>Though watered with Miquella's own blood since it was a sapling, the Haligtree ultimately failed to grow into an Erdtree.
How does that imply he wasn't coccooned? I'm not angry spaceman anon btw.
>He knew she failed to finish him off and that Caelid is a rotted wasteland. There's no timetable for his plan, there is zero reason to proceed at this point without confirming Radahn's death
How do you know he knows?
>What? Not only is this pure headcanon (his cocooned body is never even mentioned in the story btw) he doesn't physically resemble it at all anymore
The body just keeps growing and changing because that's what soulless living corpses planted in trees do (see Godwyn). Miquella's spirit is separated, and to be fair, you don't see what he looks like until he's remade a God in the Divine Gate.
>His order has nothing to do with the Elden Ring
His Order has nothing to do with Marika. You don't amount to anything without the Elden Ring. The Circlet is Mending Rune, not the Elden Ring.
>>715571414
>That doesn't even make any fucking sense, why would he not be able to return whenever he wants?
Because he's not a Tarnished and cannot teleport through Graces. He's gone into a shadow realm separated from reality, it makes sense he needs a lighthouse to return.

>>715571939
>Why not? He's waiting for someone to kill him. Also before Malenia tried to bring him with force, they wanted Radahn alive but he refused. I can't remember the exact timeline but it works either way.
Because once he's cocooned he has no influence anymore and no further way to directly influence the success of his plans. It's been thousands of years since the Shattering and everything he's connected to has turned to absolute dogshit, why would he leave such a critical plan up in the air for no reason? This isn't even true either, his plan requires Radahn to be killed and his soul sent to the LoS for some arbitrary reason lorelet. It's also never stated whether he agreed to the vow or not, where are you getting this from?
>Malenia? Also he knows he can use the Tarnished. It worked, so what's the problem?
He effectively left Malenia for dead after Caelid (so much for all the lore about their bond) and does nothing else with his massive army. Also he doesn't even use the Tarnished, they state directly that you have no connection with Miquella and that it's by chance that you end up doing everything for him. Do you also not see what's wrong with having amoral godkillers who are explicitly there to kill you and take your shit be people you rely on to accidentally remove the roadblocks to your ascension?
>The thing in the egg is not his flesh. Does it look like a child to you? Miquella mindbroke Mohg.
What schizo nonsense are you talking about

You have a third graders reading comprehension which is why you think "it worked out" is a good argument for Miquella's plan being insanely retarded. Miyazaki could shit directly into your mouth and you'd still praise it as good writing, and that's basically what he did with SotE

>>715572325
Are you implying that he was cocooned since the Haligtree was a sapling?
>How do you know he knows?
Because he was at the aftermath of Aeonia.
>The body just keeps growing and changing because that's what soulless living corpses planted in trees do (see Godwyn). Miquella's spirit is separated, and to be fair, you don't see what he looks like until he's remade a God in the Divine Gate.
The state of Godwyn's body has nothing to do with Miquella, this is not a comparable situation.
>Because he's not a Tarnished and cannot teleport through Graces. He's gone into a shadow realm separated from reality, it makes sense he needs a lighthouse to return.
He used Mohg to get to the LoS, guess whose body he's puppeteering?

>>715572054
Because it makes me mad that there are people out there that enjoyed a story that I hate

>>715572859
>Because he was at the aftermath of Aeonia.
In spirit form.
>The state of Godwyn's body has nothing to do with Miquella, this is not a comparable situation.
It's absolutely comparable, they're both bodies that aren't dead but had their soul removed.
>He used Mohg to get to the LoS, guess whose body he's puppeteering?
Mohgadahn doesn't seem to have that much of Mohg left.

>>715573331
>In spirit form.
Headcanon. Also I hope you realize this doesn't really change the issue since that means he's still aware that Radahn isn't dead. It also means he's even more insanely overpowered, as this would mean he's able to cure the scarlet rot and charm people while incorporeal
>It's absolutely comparable, they're both bodies that aren't dead but had their soul removed.
Godwyn's soul is dead, Miquella's soul was never removed.
>Mohgadahn doesn't seem to have that much of Mohg left.
He still has bloodflame abilities

Why are you still going? Like is there any possible way that you could ever see the story be bad? Like it legiitmately doesn't matter what the game even tells you because fromslurpers like yourself will just ignore it or create some no evidence headcanon to explain away the discrepancies. How do you even properly judge writing like this if you can just hand wave everything you don't like?

>the schizo is back
DLC is not canon

>>715572676
>has no influence anymore and no further way to directly influence the success of his plans
He has faith that they will work out, maybe he read it from stars, who knows.
>his plan requires Radahn to be killed and his soul sent to the LoS
He needs Radahn. There is a bunch of ways to go about it.
>It's also never stated whether he agreed to the vow or not
Miquella is convinced he did.
>He effectively left Malenia for dead after Caelid
Wasn't he already in cocoon? I think Malenia is fine with her sacrifice.
>he doesn't even use the Tarnished
Tarnished try to kill demigods. He doesn't need to control them, they are already doing what he needs them to.
>Do you also not see what's wrong
If it works it works.
>What schizo nonsense are you talking about
It's not complicated.
>You have a third graders reading comprehension which is why you think "it worked out" is a good argument
What does reading comprehension has to do with it? And yes, something achieving what you want it to is a great argument for that particular thing.
>poop miyazaki feces coprophilia
You have a filthy mind, how do you come up with this stuff? I stand by calling you people pigs.

You should also remember that Miquella is a child.

>>715573615
>Headcanon.
Not headcanon, just deduction. A skill you seem to lack (without reaching the levels of schizo that the sun realm guy goes to).
>Miquella's soul was never removed.
And yet he's walking the Shadowlands in soul form carrying his Great Rune, how is that possible if his soul wasn't removed from his body? The difference is that Godwyn's soul was destroyed, but the body is still alive.
>He still has bloodflame abilities
A single slash in a plethora of gravity and light attacks, he doesn't seem to have that much control over it.

>Why are you still going?
It's late night and i'm on holiday so i don't have to wake up early for work tomorrow.
>How do you even properly judge writing like this if you can just hand wave everything you don't like?
I could ask you the same thing. Instead of thinking "this makes no sense", i know these games are coherent, so i just need to make sense of it, because i know there is an answer.

>>715498194
Learning about how Mohg did nothing wrong had to be the biggest story change in the entire DLC. I had no idea it would even be possible to see a character like that redeemed to that level. They turned a blood rape freak into the good guy. Insane. This is why Miyazaki doesn't miss. You don't see that kind of story telling every day.

>>715574252
>Not headcanon, just deduction.
It is headcanon, prove to me that Miquella can astral project while being able to cure rot and charm people. The only reason your're saying it's deduction is because you're unable to ignore how stupid the story is if you just take it at face value without creating some fanfic powers to explain it. Again, this doesn't solve the issue
>And yet he's walking the Shadowlands in soul form carrying his Great Rune, how is that possible if his soul wasn't removed from his body?
Because it's not his fucking soul form? It's physical body, he just arbitrarily has two bodies now.
>A single slash in a plethora of gravity and light attacks, he doesn't seem to have that much control over it.
Damage control, you're making up so many bullshit assumptions

>I could ask you the same thing. Instead of thinking "this makes no sense", i know these games are coherent, so i just need to make sense of it, because i know there is an answer.
Exactly. You are putting in significantly more work trying to make sense of this shitheap than Miyazaki is, the veil just hasn't been removed from your eyes which is why you think there has to be an answer and the story isn't just a bunch of napkin scribbles tossed together in 5 minutes. I don't know how people still believe that the lore is just gran tapestry that totally makes sense and is all masterfully plan. For fucks sake there are MULTIPLE in-game trailer scenes released a few months before the DLC that never happen in game, and the entire game was re-written multiple times. Keep sucking Miyazaki's turds though.

>>715574091
>He has faith that they will work out, maybe he read it from stars, who knows.
Is this really the best you have man
>He needs Radahn. There is a bunch of ways to go about it.
And the way he went about it is really stupid
>Miquella is convinced he did.
Okay? How about Radahn's side of things, we're never given an answer
>Wasn't he already in cocoon? I think Malenia is fine with her sacrifice.
He was not, and while Malenia is fine with it Miquella is *supposed* to love her more than anything
>Tarnished try to kill demigods. He doesn't need to control them, they are already doing what he needs them to.
And guess what Miquella is and what the ultimate goal of the Tarnished are?
>You should also remember that Miquella is a child.
He's described as a genius by everyone, lmao at this cope defense that he's actually just retarded.

>>715574742
Miyazaki is truly an artistic genius on par with the writer of Maleficent.

>>715574742
He was not redeemed, Mohg literally grew up throwing his omen shit at people and laughing as they went insane. He served the Formless Mother long before the Shattering, and every piece of lore describes him as a lunatic. God I fucking hate Ansbach for making people think he was actually a good guy and didn't do anything wrong. How is this even interesting when so much of Mohg's character revolved around being an absolute freak, he'd have zero characterization if you think everything he did was a result of the charm

>>715575012
>And the way he went about it is really stupid
He tried a whole bunch of things and in the end it worked. Vow, Malenia, then finally Tarnished.
>How about Radahn's side of things
Well we are talking about Miquella's plan, which is based on what Miquella thinks. Radahn might've had his own ideas, whatever they were.
>Miquella is *supposed* to love her more than anything
Isn't part of the Haligtree's purpose healing her rot? He did try. Remember that Miquella changes quite a bit during his venture to the Land of Shadows.
>And guess what Miquella is and what the ultimate goal of the Tarnished are?
Maybe he believed power'd up Radahn would be enough to save him from intruders. Maybe his new age would stop tarnished forever. He was too preoccupied with becoming a god think of eventual threats later on.
>He's described as a genius by everyone
Is he? I remember various descriptions/pieces of dialogue making a point of him being a child. He is ment to be naive. His entire vision of world free of violence and suffering is ment to be very naive, childish.

>>715501565
These are all reactions to the horrible state of the world. You’re right that they’re varying degrees of fucked up, but it’s still an attempt to restore order or establish themselves, or establish something.
Ranni is a big part of the reason everything got fucked in the first place. No one has as big a share of the blame as Marika, but Ranni is second. Not to mention killing your brother and creating the undead curse are profoundly fucked.

>>715575310
He was scorned by everyone and shackled underground like other Omen. His monstrous nature is not a fault of his own, but understandably makes him a pariah.
All he does after is try to create a place in the world for himself, somehow.

>>715576318
>He tried a whole bunch of things and in the end it worked. Vow, Malenia, then finally Tarnished.
Malenia was a part of the vow. He didn't "try" the Tarnished, they were never a part of his plan. It's like saying you assassinated your boss because he got eaten by a bear during a hiking trip
>Isn't part of the Haligtree's purpose healing her rot? He did try. Remember that Miquella changes quite a bit during his venture to the Land of Shadows.
That's what unalloyed gold is for lorelet. I'm talking about after Aeonia, where if Finlay wasn't there she would've died. Miquella would've been aware that she lost the needle and rot nuked herself, and he does nothing to help her which happens before he enters the land of shadows
>Maybe he believed power'd up Radahn would be enough to save him from intruders. Maybe his new age would stop tarnished forever. He was too preoccupied with becoming a god think of eventual threats later on.
Preoccupied my fucking ass, he has done jack shit since the shattering ended, he could do a bit more planning than "lol it'll work out ig"
>Is he? I remember various descriptions/pieces of dialogue making a point of him being a child. He is ment to be naive. His entire vision of world free of violence and suffering is ment to be very naive, childish.
He's not described as naive even once, his curse is that he's physicially a child. Ymir even tells you directly that Miquella was correct in his view that Marika was the problem, he was just misguided in thinking he needed to become a Jesus-like figure.

Stop fucking arguing with me, you're getting basic, well established facts wrong and don't know what you're talking about

>>715576929
By 'Vow' I mean Radahn following voluntarily. By 'Malenia' I mean her taking him to Miquella with force after he refused.
>It's like saying you assassinated your boss because he got eaten by a bear during a hiking trip
More like your boss being actively tracked and hunted by a bunch of bears who reaaaaally want to kill him.
>I'm talking about after Aeonia, where if Finlay wasn't there she would've died
So are you angry he didn't carry her himself and had one of the knights do it? He is not a fighter, really.
>Miquella would've been aware that she lost the needle and rot nuked herself, and he does nothing to help her
Maybe he couldn't do anything else and thought becoming a god could help him save her.
>Preoccupied my fucking ass
He barely just become a god before you enter the arena to kill him.
>He's not described as naive even once
His aims are clearly naive. He suffers from "eternal youth", no one says it's just physical.
>bla bla stop owning me with facts and logic
Not an argument.

>>715577687 me
One of the descriptions calls the curse "eternal childhood". It's ment to be physical and mental, SOTE is a coming of age story. Sadly you are just an autistic plotfag so you'll fail to appreciate any of it.

>>715570667
This. His team is the future of fromsoft now. Miyazaki is not like the old days and those DS2 crews are decent yet only goes so far.

I'm biased as hell but i just want Godwyn's existence to matter in the grand scheme of things. I'm a sucker for the 'perfect heir' archetype.

Give it to me straight. Was he meant to be Ranni's consort? Was his death some sort of ritual gone wrong? Was the eclipse a meme?

>>715577687
>More like your boss being actively tracked and hunted by a bunch of bears who reaaaaally want to kill him.
This still isn't a plan, and there's no telling whether your boss also prepared guns and bare mace to stay alive. Why would you rely on some wild, uncontrollable animals while having the means and resources to kill him yourself?
>So are you angry he didn't carry her himself and had one of the knights do it? He is not a fighter, really.
He has an entire army at his disposal, the Haligtree forces are still intact besides the Cleanrots. He is relying on one single knight to trek the entire continent in an extremely perilous journey while protecting her, and you don't see how this makes him look like a total asshole?
>Maybe he couldn't do anything else and thought becoming a god could help him save her.
If he found and reneedled her the Haligtree wouldn't be a rotted shithole. There is no pragmatic reason as to why he'd abandon her.
>He barely just become a god before you enter the arena to kill him.
He was in the Land of Shadows since the Shattering ended. Surely he has enough time after several hundred or even thousands of years to think things through
>His aims are clearly naive. He suffers from "eternal youth", no one says it's just physical.
And it's never said that it's mental as well, he's described as a prodigious genius by everyone.
>Not an argument.
You don't know the lore
>Sadly you are just an autistic plotfag so you'll fail to appreciate any of it.
Sorry I have taste and standards in writing

>>715578260
>Why would you rely on some wild, uncontrollable animals while having the means and resources to kill him yourself?
He threw plenty of knights at him before. Again, he doesn't need to control them because their interests converge.
>He is relying on one single knight
I assume other knights died. The idea of a single knight doing it is also very moe. Die plotfag.
>If he found and reneedled her
Maybe he failed to find it. Or whoever he sent to do it. Maybe he figured it was swallowed by the swamp.
>Surely he has enough time
He was busy shedding his body.
>he's described as a prodigious genius by everyone
No he isn't. You imagined this.
>You don't know the lore
You don't know anything.
>Sorry I have taste and standards in writing
You have no "taste" just autism. Not everything can be read like a graph.