STOP PICKING HIM
YOU WILL NOT MAKE HIM WORK
YOU WILL NEVER MAKE HIM WORK

>>715545369 (OP)
He has a pretty good match-up (in terms of tanking and resurrecting teammates) against Fulghor

>>715545369 (OP)
BIRB TANK HAHAHA

>>715545369 (OP)
this time it will be different

bro trust me i'll get the purple shield drop and insta win the run

>throws your run

...

Someone should make a DPS meter for the game. The shitflinging would be amazing.

>>715545369 (OP)
I like birb characters and like tanks. I choose him purely for aesthetic purposes. Cope and seethe.

>>715547904
Calvin and Hobbes bridge crossing pose is patrician tier.

>>715547904
I run exclusively with friends and this was 2/3rds of our group before I dropped revenant for raider.
we kill shit so much faster it's not even funny.

>>715549121
i am a faggot

>>715545369 (OP)
My brother likes to play him. We have a pretty high winrate going bird/recluse.

>>715545369 (OP)
So it's not just me, he really is the weakest of the bunch, huh.

>>715545369 (OP)
why do you need to make anything "work"? as long as the team follows the way points youre gonna be strong enough to win regardless

>>715547904
The biggest reason for lost runs is recluse though

>Teammate picks raider
>Night boss is outland commander
>Fucking retard throws the ultimate and now we can't even dish out damage while he summons the banished knights
I swear raiders have one fucking braincell

>>715548886
If he played as raider the teammates would never have gone down in the first place.

>>715552348
This shit happens too often too
>Have a cheeky fight in the storm
>Boss at 1hp
>Raider ME MAKE BIG PILLAR
>Loot and site of grace stuck inside everlasting stone
>We die

Guardian is a self fulfilling prophecy
His damage sucks ass so fights will take longer
Fights will take longer so his teammates are more likely to 3pie
His teammates are more likely to 3pie so he is more likely to be the last one standing and get value out of his ult
He is more likely to get value out of his ult so guardian players are more likely to pick him convinced he is good

>>715545369 (OP)
make me, metafag

>>715545369 (OP)
>Character damage gimmick is guard counters
>Bosses jump around franctically making guard counters not viable 90% of the time
>Even if you magically get one, it does absolutely no fucking damage
Amazing, picking raider every single time for some real damage and tanky gameplay.

>>715556032
>>Even if you magically get one, it does absolutely no fucking damage
thats not true, a fully charged guard counter does a fuckton of damage, but yeah, good luck landing one

>>715545369 (OP)
>you wont make him work
>great shield
>halberd
literally one of the easiest movesets to use, also u can just switch to a thrusting weapon to poke behind shield.

>>715556194
tbf, guardian is abnormally reliant on relics to make his guard counters actually hit hard
it's wild that a relicless guard counter will do less than half the damage of one with 1 HP scaling counter relic and 2 improved counter relics, it feels like the bare minimum to make guardian not a complete dead weight

>>715556308
Poking things to death behind a greatshield is not a good strategy in a game about maximizing loot by blitzing enemies down as fast as possible

>>715550975
He's the only character who isn't offensively oriented. His design's an inherent mismatch for the game putting you on a timer the first two days, and Nightlord fights drag on longer with him in the party than they would with any other character, or even with an empty slot due to scaling. Reflect + ult make him good for babysitting inexperienced players so they can practice fights at least.

He can stagger half the enemy roster out of their autism spam attacks and has the best revive in the game

>>715549121
Its crazy how much better raider/Wylder/ironeye are than the rest of the cast

>>715558862
Duchess is nuts once you actually learn to play her

>>715556308
Halberd can already poke behind the shield but I don't think it's even worth it because you don't get to reflect damage while doing it

>>715559445
Still pretty reliant on getting decent spells. Restage is good and that's about it for her, idk why they don't have her start with a staff so people would stop trying to play her as a pure melee

>>715560732
Why not just use hoarfrost stomp as a starting skill? it's pretty decent for the whole run

>>715545369 (OP)
cool bird, i pick him

>>715558862
I think recluse is up there too, epsecially if you get a decent spell setup which is pretty easy if you know the spots to check.

I think raider's mostly just idiot proof, I think wylder can do the big weapon thing about as good, has better skills (imo), and is more likely to find a good weapon setup since he can use almost anything effectively.

Ironeye is good but it feels like most people who play him are idiots who googled "nightreign best character" and don't know how to use him.

>>715561010
>decent
It takes raider from good to the best

>>715559876
Being able to shieldpoke and reflect at the same time would singlehandedly save him.

>>715558862
>ironeye
played iron eye for the first time the other day... lmao. people actually play like this?

Libra is my husband.

>>715555313
This
Guardian makes you feel like you and your character are saving the day, while obscuring the fact that the only reason your friends need saving is because you aren't pulling your weight. You don't see this as a Guardian, because you just see the last stands you're doing, everyone else is screaming at you to pick a real character.

>>715547904
kill all revenant players

>>715545369 (OP)
bord :y

>>715558862
Recluse and Duchess are incredible too. Be real.

>>715560732
Nah, getting good spells makes them the strongest classes in the game but even mid tier spells are enough and with map knowledge you can get a shitton of chances at solid seals and staves

>>715565567
Why what did revenant do to you?

okay question but how TF do you see what's going on when revenant summons Frederick

>>715564613
I think damage on Guardian is okay, it just needs a way to keep the fucking aggro. Since the damage is low, teamates keep stealing the bosses away. If they made his ability apply a taunt (maybe make a relic for it instead of the retarded "guarding makes enemies more likely to attack you), Guardian would be able to truly keep their teammates alive and DPS half decently.

>>715545369 (OP)
I would rather have any guardian on my team than the best recluse.

as long as you're doing the correct kind of elemental damage your damage will be fine, I've played with friends and randoms and he fits in to the team well when you have a couple of heavy hitters that can relax and not worry about aggro. He's great at disrupting enemies, his ult charges fast and is a guaranteed revive even to 3bars, that's extremely strong.
nightreign is all about efficiency, with guardian you can blow through camps, crowd control enemies, his guard counter does tremendous poise damage, more than anything else. You get in their faces and poke at them, soaking up aggro and you're tanky enough to afford to stay there. I've had way more successes with guardian because it helps you make the game easier for the people playing so they can just unload on the enemy in bursts, recharge their stamina while you constantly stay on the frontlines. when people are going down and everyone is running around like headless chickens trying to revive eachother is when things go south, with relics you basically have a gigantic permanent tornado that constantly staggers and draws aggro. if you know how to play him he's excellent and fits in to any team well, but more importantly he's just fun to play because he looks cool and it's a fun and unique playstyle

>>715565630
Eeeh
I think Recluse sucks.
Sure, optimally, they're great, but Recluse is so goddamn RNG dependent. Either you get good spells and you're going nuclear, or you don't and you're dead weight, almost as bad as a Guardian.
The other casters are more spell agnostic. Sure, they WANT good spells, but aren't completely flaccid if they get a bit of bad luck. You can MAKE them work if the game isn't giving you what you want. Recluse working or not working is just at the mercy of rng.
Inconsistent is worse than consistent, regardless of where the peak of good luck takes you.
Unless it's consistently bad. Like Guardian.

>>715564807
Ironeye is for people that want to be a reliable support and don't care about Aura farming or cool hype moments. It's arguably the most boring and least rewarding class... but also one of the most powerful. It takes a certain kind of maniac to excel at Ironeye, and that maniac is the same type of person that shoots up a post office. Incredible levels of autism for optimization and consistency works too.

>>715545369 (OP)
No

>>715566178
>learn where seals and staves spawn
>make sure to pop into those spots [skipping thr boss is ok btw]
You will almost never be fucked on spells. Seriously. At -worst- you might not be able to find the boss weakness. That's it.

>>715566178
it's virtually impossible to not get shattering crystal though which is a good enough spell to make her pop off
also remember she's just as good or even better at using incants than revenant
and if need be and you're stuck with mediocre spells that 3-energy combos absolutely make up for it if you can pull them off

>>715565909
This.
Guardian's problem is he has All My Friends Are Dead syndrome. Any tank in a game that doesn't have good aggro control, or some other facilitating factor inevitably runs into this problem.
Guardian isn't contributing enough offensively to be worth anything, and isn't protecting the damage output of his allies. He's just dying after them, maybe long enough he can pick them back up again, then not protect them so they go down again.

>>715564807
I'm assuming you went in mainly using bows. His skills have really good iframes, and unless you get a good ranged setup he tends to do much better going for dex/arc melee weapons.

>>715566423
ranged is a lot better when you remember ranged R2's exist as well as manual aiming

>>715545369 (OP)
He literally makes the game piss easy if you know how to properly play him and have non braindead teammates
If you can get your teammates items with less likely to be targeted and just don't stop holding shield / his special stance you literally cannot lose

>>715565875
By not standing behind Fredrick
>>715559445
Restage doesn't even work more than half the time in my experience.
>>715547904
Having one of them for rezing 3rd down dickheads is always nice. Revenant genuinely doesn't even have sp problems if you have a brain too.

>>715566587
Frederick takes up the entire god damn boss

>>715566178
If you know the spots to check for staves/talismans it's very unlikely you won't get at least one good spell especially considering that there are a lot of decent/usable spells.

birdcucks just keep jobbing

>>715549121
That's only because you are using a premade team that can communicate.

>>715566604
Only for small bosses and even than you should just back up and let Frederick tank.

>>715566181
>Incredible levels of autism for optimization and consistency works too.
You just toss on the final boss relic and spam bow switches when the boss does an element or suck move. Otherwise you just mark and keep a second charge of your Invincible dash in your pocket.

>>715556308
>Boss runs away to fight the other two because they are putting out more damage than turtle bird

>>715566681
holy kek

>>715566757
kinda hard to back up when you're playing as a raider

>>715555313
>>715565456
Nobody is at fault for you dying except you. If you had used your free invincibility button to avoid whatever damage would have killed you then you wouldn't have died. You mistiming that button is nobody else's fault.

>>715566681
Kek

>>715566681

>>715566952
If you have a guardian, the boss shouldn't be fight you. So Guardian has yet again failed at his one job

>>715566681
Did he do the super guard thing? Hard to tell

Every character in this game is OP as fuck, especially so if you're comparing them to the Tarnished you play as in Elden Ring.
Compalining about a character being to weak is a huge self report that you are absolute garbage at Elden Ring.

>>715566604
Just jump or charge attack

>>715567027
If you were capable of timing your free invincibility button properly then the boss targeting you wouldn't be an issue. If you blame your teammates for you dying in a game with a free invincibility button you are retarded and fundamentally bad at the game.

>>715566952
The other side of the equation is that nobody is contributing to a successful run except for players who deal damage.
A guardian who never dies but never deals any significant damage is being carried just as much as a recluse who goes down 3 times every boss.
They're both taking up a slot where a good player could be helping.

>>715566404
Guardian's low mobility also means he will often trail behind a boss that absolutely refuses to target you. His benefits depend on having the enemy attack him, both his guard counter and his reflective damage relic are strong. It just requires the boss to stay on you which Guardian has no tools to enforce.

>>715567147
deflecting tear with a colossal weapon in ER is flat out superior to literally the entire gimmick the executor has because unlike him, you can counterattack with a royal knight resolve giant crusher instead of that wiffle bat of his

>>715566587
There's a timing thing on riposts, you have to hit it right after they get kicked off the sword but before they hit the ground, I think

>>715566952
Having to overextend to push for damage because someone picked the muscular dystrophy bird is also the bird's fault, that we wouldn't be having if the bird just wasn't here.
Guardian literally is worse than an empty slot more often than not.

>>715567256
Guardian doesn't need to do damage as long as he's taking aggro off of me and rezing me if I go down which allows me to spam stars of ruin and shit out more damage than 3 raiders would do

>>715567326
I never liked the deflect tear in Elden Ring and barely used it. Even if what you are saying is correct. Executor starts with a katana that can proc bleed and frost at once with a good relic setup, poison too apparently though I never tried all 3 at once myself.

Either way that is my point, the only people that complain about characters being shit are the shitters that got carried through Elden Ring with OP cheese build and mimic tears.

>>715567582
>Having to overextend to push for damage
The fuck are you talking about?

>>715567268
The weirdest thing
This mechanic is IN elden ring.
The diseased corpse ash has this effect of aggro drawing.
They just... didn't give it to him

>>715545369 (OP)
I can do it.

Even if guardian is the worst of all the characters (he's not) this game is simply not hard enough for that to matter. It gets boring playing ironeye/wylder/raider and getting level 15 every run and demolishing the boss. If the game is a significant struggle for you just because you have a character on your team who's not as OP as those three then you're just shit at the game.

>>715567743
sure that part is good, but even then triple status is something ER characters can do as well and unlike executor, they can put rot as one of the 3

also full deflect build in ER is hilarious, you can hit enemies for 10k+ in a single blow easily

>>715567382
I'm pretty sure it's a latency thing, but between restage unreliability and a shit ult Duchess has problems.

>>715567947
Yeah I know deflects can be really strong, I just never liked how they implemented them in Elden Ring. The way Sekiro deflect works feels much more satisfying. I do like the Executor deflects though, the deflect frames do need to be less forgiving but it's pretty good otherwise and his ability is pretty convenient for getting close to the bigger enemies that push him back with their attacks which also feels nice.

>>715565909
There's actually a datamined relic for Guardian that gives him more aggro but it's not yet implemented
It should just be built into his passive imo, he already has too many useful relic lines

>>715567743
If you use Gnoster and Caligo's relics you can easily get the triple status effect build going and you don't miss out on much cause Executor's exclusive relic effects are pretty ass for the most part

>>715568626
heal on roar is pretty much the only mandatory one
caligo relic is also not the best for executor since he doesn't want that invis

>>715545369 (OP)
>Elden Ring
>with 40 minute "run backs"
>and RNG drops
Imagine being enough of a drone to play this at all
>b-but I like ""roguelikes""!!!
Kill yourself lol

>Holy weak boss
>Someone spends the entire game constantly pinging a lightning camp off in Narnia.
>or vice versa

>>715568732
What's wrong with the invisibility? It's just a free backstab or charged attack and if you don't want that you can just keep spamming R1

>>715566681
>reuse base game boss
>uh, royal knight
brilliant shitizaki

>>715567237
So Guardian has one job and it can't even do it consistently what a great character

>>715567783
There is the relic he gets that gives him aggro when raising his shield. But again, it just restricts his customization cause you need to use one of the urns that lets you equip the relic. Should have been his passive

>>715569405
desu bird and Sekiro are more fun solo they just don't work that well in trios.
You can actually be a guard counter tank solo but in trios the boss just targets your team and you do nothing.
You can play Sekiro in solo but in trios the boss targets your team and you do nothing

>>715565567
based

>>715565909
Reflect + shieldpoke should fix that too. Potentially double the rate of attack, double(?) the aggro gen.
>Since the damage is low, teamates keep stealing the bosses away.
I don't know the specifics of aggro calculations, but considering a Revenant can sling spells for thousands and still have Sebastian take aggro with a 60 damage slam or tickling enemies with the roar, I don't believe damage factors in at all.

>>715569405
>one job
Guardian has 4 jobs
>Tank and spam gcs
>Rez with ult
>Cast buffs
And the super secret
>Use you ult on the boss and hold it so your teammates can beat it down for free.

>>715565909
The problem is his entire character design. If you can keep aggro as guardian every boss will be braindead easy to kill. Meanwhile If you can't keep aggro as guardian you will be the most useless character on the team

>>715566952
But if you had teammates that are good at not dying, then what's the point of guardian?

>>715569405
If guardian was actually capable of keeping aggro off of all other players at all times then people would be whining that he's too OP. I'm sorry you have to interact with the enemies sometimes, that must be very hard for you.

>>715566681
>least tracking projectile in elden ring

>>715570586
So your teammates can shit out damage on the boss rather than having to focus solely on dodging

>>715570603
Guardian with damage on block vs Nameless has to be the most boring fight in the game

Sparring should allow you to choose the enhancement level, ash of war, and infusion for any given weapon.

>>715564807
>throughout the run its pretty boring
>get to nightlord
>only character who can consistently hit them
fulgor and the final boss are particularly easy with him.

>>715560732
It's very easy to get good spells, they're one of the things you can target farm on every seed. Even if she misses them she can just run a bleed or frostbite weapon and be highly competitive.

>>715568882
It's actually really fun, the problem with the game is that it's lacking content and more randomization. It's too barebones with only one map and very small boss selection. Fromsoft dropped the ball on this one, it's an asset flip there shouldn't be this much of a problem to add all the bosses from previous games.

>>715573271
Should also let you spawn in any enemy you want. I want to practice executor's deflect but the marionette only has 2 slow ass moves

>>715545369 (OP)
He works tho.

>Everdark Adel
>roll rotten axe on raider a minute in
>get to level 15 with team
>two of us get revives
>multiple evergaol buffs
>margit raid buff
>still wipe bc Ironeye and Duchess two bar before the phase 3 transition
>ironeye dies immediately after revive to spin2win
>both die to the tornado attack somehow
>I get grabbed mid charged headbutt

>>715575276
skill issue

>>715545369 (OP)
My bird can kick your ass.

>>715575116
That too. Marionette's weak to fire, has low poise, and is a thin target. Useless for properly testing things like Pest Threads, Shard Spiral, maybe other things like Ancient Dragon Lightning Strike which does godawful damage for the cast time but maybe it's better on something bigger (I haven't had the luxury of testing in a run in tens of hours)

>>715574781
>literally Elden Ring
>but with 40 minute "run backs"
>and RNG drops
>one map
>poor content amount
>noncustom characters
>"but actually its soooo fun because I get to mash two (2) MOBA abilities"
lol

>>715575116
>>715573271
>>715575724
Jesus christ anons. It's a fucking Roguelite, you're lucky you have anything.

Go fucking play the game if you wanna practice parrying. The rest of that is autistic dogshit for retards and utterly worthless.

>>715576537
What's autistic is you getting upset over literally nothing. Relax man.

why didn't any of you tell me that you can simply jump the Gaping Jaw ground fissures? I always get hit by that shit

>>715577385
if you follow waypoints u get strong enough to not have to pay attention to anything else

>>715545369 (OP)
We'll still be alive, while you're on your ass eating grass.

Too many new Guardians forget to hold block and tap dodge for the improved tank mode
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW-GwSF6ygw

>>715577385
You can also jump most of Fulgur's ground pounds like any time he jumps with his diseased arm, you still have to be careful trying to jump Adel if you're up close though because he can easily clip you with his head on its way to the ground.
I'm not sure if you can jump Heolsters phase change ground attacks, I've tried a bunch of times but I don't think I've ever succeeded.

>>715576475
The original Elden Ring is slower paced and I can't go back to it unless they add achievements to the crappy DLC or fucking Godfrey, Godwynn, Godwhatsit ZANZIBART

>>715545369 (OP)
hmmm. today I think I will... pick guardian.
yes, today is the day.

>>715545369 (OP)
No

Love playing carrian slicer duchess with 3 relics for carrian sword sorcery. Just feels awful when you don't get any staffs with any carian sword sorceries.

>>715545369 (OP)
20 hours and only used him

>>715578557
I've been thinking about trying builds like that, but most of the sorcery relics only have one useful spell per school, and as far as I'm aware Godslayer doesn't apply to any Black Flame spells. Probably best off going Bestial or Dragon Cult for incantations and Crystallian for sorcery, maybe Gravity if you're feeling lucky.

>>715578557
>Just feels awful when you don't get any staffs with any carian sword sorceries.

Oh, you mean 90% of my Duchess runs.

>We're sure to win because our numbers are superior

>>715579462
>fair

>>715578308
Look at those grippers

>>715578821
Bestial's probably the play for incants. Clawmark guarantees Sling, Stone and Claw are even better, and being physical they scale with a bunch of buff effects that other spells don't. Also little to no issues with resistance or size dependency.

His design works so much better with just the one wing.

I play Guardian, Raider, and Executor the most. But I tried Iron Eye recently and he's so fucking fun especially using a bow in left hand and sword in right hand.

have you taken the lvl 1 noklateo pill
>bosses that aren't astel are piss easy
>go up right side and hit the chest for free high odds of a legendary
>good chance someone gets grafted or mirais night 1
>everything's a rune pinata
>can hit the hippo in the ravine on the way out
>can hit the gaol and 2 bosses in the center after
>can hit the 2 center north bosses after because the tree usually spawns north west
>go up left side night 2, hit astel, revive reward, dragonkin, dupe as needed
>hit loretta or the dragon as time allows
who the fuck needs camps

>>715583402
No but I've rushed crater before. Fire Prelates aren't that strong and there's the demi-human queens.

>>715583402
bring a wraith bell in and hit the ceiling baby astels that shit meteorites at you
after getting hit a few times they fuck off with 90% HP and give you the easiest 20k runes of your life

>>715583402
Where's the legendary chest? I somehow managed to never find it

>>715585217
right side after the black knife there's a spirit spring that will take you up to one of the buildings. there's a staircase down to a small hallway with the chest and a phantom knight.

>>715585519
thanks I'm gonna look for it next time I get noklateo