Why do indie devs keep lying about genre their games are? This isn't okay.

>>>/vt/ranny

>>715581321 (OP)
What does sacchin have to do with enter the gungeon?

>>715581321 (OP)
Non-consensual sex with Shiorin.

Satsuki spotted

>>715581321 (OP)
why isn't Enter the Gungeon a bullet hell?

>>715581657
NTA, there's a lot of reasons but the most glaring one is that in a bullet hell, you actually have to dodge the bullets
In gungeon you're meant to just spam invincibility frames with the roll

who is the guy at the top left? id buy his games he looks cool

>"My game is an RPG"
>It's a bullet hell on top of a visual novel on top of a walking simulator, all under a trench coat pretending to be and rpg
and I say this as someone who likes Undertale

>>715581737
this is true to a point but in later stages you can't crutch on invul

>>715581321 (OP)
Holy shit, Edmund is Nerissa!?

>>715581321 (OP)
why are 2 of them anime grills?

>>715581321 (OP)
Why is Sacchin there

>>715581657
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSS_3iTIgA4
tl;dr
>large hitbox makes it impossible to do small, precise dodges, which is what you primarily do in real bullet hells
>multiple attacks are completely undodgeable and require spamming invulnerability frames, which no real bullet hell would ever do
>regular rooms frequently future environmental mechanics such as pillars, tables, etc where as a real bullet hell has the entire game be composed of bullets

>>715582204
She's trying to sell you her game.

>>715581657
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSS_3iTIgA4 [Embed]
tl;dr
>large hitbox makes it impossible to do small, precise dodges, which is what you primarily do in real bullet hells
>multiple attacks are completely undodgeable and require spamming invulnerability frames, which no real bullet hell would ever do
>regular rooms frequently feature environmental mechanics such as pillars, tables, etc where as a real bullet hell has the entire game be composed of bullets

>>715582394
Is there any genre name for games that control like shmups except you can't shoot things?

>>715582394
Okay, so you either watched this video and it told you what to think, or you made the video. Either way thank you for letting everyone know that you're a fucking retard who should be ignored.

>>715582612
I linked the video because it would help explain the point further + elaborate if you want to hear more on the topic. I already understood inherently before watching it.

>>715582612
NTA but
>a youtuber made the argument so it HAS to be wrong!!!
If you can't argue against what Anon said without using retarded non-arguments like that then you're a retard who should be ignored yourself :)

>>715581321 (OP)
>tfw you realize rogue isn't a roguelike

Baby making secs with Saccin

>>715582545
undertale-likes

>>715582394
>multiple attacks are completely undodgeable and require spamming invulnerability frames, which no real bullet hell would ever do
Who says? Ikaruga was an insanely popular bullet hell and its primary mechanic is to make you invulnerable to projectiles.

>>715581923
undertale is open about its "rpg elements" being a narrative tool thoughbeit

>>715583414
>ikaruga was a bullet hell
Ikaruga isn't a bullet hell and never has been.
The primary activity of the gameplay is positioning for attacking the enemy and attacking enemies in different orders, not dodging enemy bullets.

>>715583507
"bullet hell" is literally the only genre ikaruga has, your genre conventions are stubbornly restrictive in ways that don't make sense and that extremely few people would agree with.

>>715583714
is Gradius bullet hell?

>>715583714
>bullet hell is literally the only genre ikaruga has
? No, it's just a shmup. Do you not know what a shmup is?
>>715583847
No

shiori fans are KEKS

>>715583714
NTA but
>your genre conventions are stubbornly restrictive in ways that don't make sense and extremely few people would agree with
"the game needs to primarily involve precise dodging to be a bullet hell" is a pretty simple and intuitive definition.

>>715581321 (OP)
HOLY SHIT I WANT TO FACEFUCK THAT GOTH WHORE TILL HE PUKES

>>715581321 (OP)
shiori is a cheating slut

>>715581321 (OP)
I hate termslop so fucking much, ruined any and all discussion online

>>715583714
I agree with you anon

>>715585054
>agreeing that the only possible genre term which could define ikaruga is bullet hell
>not knowing what a shmup is
You're a literal full blown mentally diagnosed retard.

>>715584946
its SABA

>>715583963
? I get that ikaruga isn't the hardest bullet hell and that other danmaku reach much more ridiculous heights, but it's pretty undeniable and you won't find a single site where it isn't listed as its primary genre
>>715583847
no
>>715585151
you're right i'm retarded

>>715585364
>websites say its a bullet hell so it is one
People saying something doesn't make it true
>ikaruga isn't the hardest
That's not the point
Ikaruga isn't a bullet hell because the primary gameplay isn't focused on dodging, that's it
the final boss forcing you to make tight dodges doesn't change that
99% of the game the focus is chaining, timing polarity shift, etc.

>>715583714
shootemup =/= bullet hell

>>715584946
>>715585226
>>>/vt/ranny

>>715585521
contra is my favorite bullet hell

>>715585512
>People saying something doesn't make it true
except in the context of linguistics, where definitions are defined by their use. You can find plenty of shmups that will never be listed as bullet hells (gradius being an example mentioned in thread), but this isn't the case for ikaruga.
The game is also just undeniably focused on dodging, it's a difficult game and the only way to die is by failing to dodge. Genre conventions are not so strict that they can't account for the introduction of new mechanics and gimmicks, and polarity mechanics don't mean you don't have to dodge precisely or manipulate enemy attack patterns to create precise openings.

>>715586086
If people were to start saying "the sky is red" that wouldn't make blue start transforming into red, it would just make those people wrong
>the game is undeniably focused on dodging
No, the major core of the game's design is the chaining system. Most of what you're doing is precisely choosing to shoot specific enemies, not precisely making small dodges between bullets.
>the only way to die is by failing to dodge
...that also applies to Gradius

>>715586086
NTA but this isn't a case of people having differing definitions, it's that there are hundreds of retarded normalfags who are just retarded and don't know what words mean
If a subculture of people have a very precisely defined term, and outsiders who have no idea misuse it, that doesn't mean that the people who actually understand the term are wrong. It's the other way around.

>>715583414
Ikaruga is a shmup. Bullet Hells are a subgenre of that

>>715584946
Sana, Fauna, and Gura look like they take huge shits.

Is Undertale a bullet hell? What about Realm of the Mad God?

>Marvel vs Capcom isn't a fighting game, because you control more than 1 character.
This is what you sound like

>>715586952
>Most of what you're doing is precisely choosing to shoot specific enemies, not precisely making small dodges between bullets.
You're doing both at all times though, one doesn't negate the other. You're constantly making precise dodges, manipulating polarity, and making precise shots, and failure to make precise shots leads to the need for more precise dodging. There's nothing that bullet hells have that ikaruga doesn't have, but we're never going to agree on this.
Really, in modern linguistics, "shmup" and "bullet hell" have essentially switched places, where shmup more specifically refers to the ship-shooter style of game, and danmaku refers to specifically ones with extremely high difficulty and bullet density, although there really aren't many shmups being released that fail to meet danmaku standards. "Bullet hell" has taken over to mean any game with high bullet density and the need to dodge in precise patterns, as more games have adopted elements from the genre and have needed a fitting descriptor to convey their gameplay style.
>>715587501
yes, and yes

>>715585364
yeah wow you posted the final phase of the final boss which you can kinda, sorta, make the argument that it has bullet hell elements. Now show the rest of the game

>>715587501
>Undertale
Not enough bullets
>RotMG
Could make the argument that depends on the dungeon but most of the time you can just tank and heal trough shit so no

Games that aren't quite bullet hells should be called bullet purgatories

>>715588039
There seems to be a bit of miscommunication here. Let me go over this again:
A bullet hell has:
>high bullet density
>a small player hitbox
>the primary focus of the game is making small, precise dodges between dense bullet patterns
This does not apply for Ikaruga.
If you're having a problem understanding exactly the scale of "dense" and "small" involved here, here's an example from stage 2 of the bullet hell game Ketsui:

>>715581737
rolling is a noob trap, you should be walking between bullets unless there's a very obvious bullet wave that's designed for you to dodge roll over, otherwise you'll dodge into bullets a bunch because the recovery time is so long

>>715588787
I think bullet limbo is snappier

>>715588831
I'd argue that the only requirements are high bullet density, complex bullet patterns, high difficulty, and a focus on precise dodging between bullets. Larger hitboxes can have equally precise dodging requirements and similarly complex patterns, small hitboxes are the genre standard but not a requirement.
>>715588450
The whole game is full of screens full of bullets with complex patterns and tight dodges, I don't know why you're being so uptight about it. Nothing about the genre is being degraded.

>>715589512
>The whole game is full of screens full of bullets with complex patterns and tight dodges
>webm is nothing but macrododging

>>715589512
There sure are patterns there, but you're not actually making small, tight dodges between the bullets involved. You're just moving forward in large jumps then changing polarity to move backwards or forwards

>>715589739
>>715589665
Gross and deceptive simplification, the timing and positioning associated with polarity switching is often very tight and restrictive and you can see it in the webm by picking any point in time and tring to identify when and where it would be safe and sensible to polarity switch and what hazards you have to account for when you do. You can also see several instances of tight dodges between enemies with their own hitboxes, which you likely aren't considering as "bullets" because they don't process as such in the traditional sense. You're also holding "tight" to a standard that doesn't scale with hitbox size, the precision and pattern recognition required is still at a high level that meets genre standards.

>>715581321 (OP)
Bed breaking, leg locking, hand holding, eye gazing, sweaty, passionate, animalistic, baby making SEX with Shiori

>>715584946
Cool but where's Justice

>>715581321 (OP)
Exactly, isaac is a well cooked steak, one should take time to enjoy it

>>715581321 (OP)
what a strange trio to put in the same image

>>715590087
Right, Ikaruga features elements of tight and precise playing but those elements aren't about dodging bullets, so it's not a bullet hell
Having to use tight timing for one element is not the same as for another

>>715581321 (OP)
>first one is a metroidvania
>second one is a roguelike
>third one is a bullet hell
I don't see the problem. If you want to discuss semantics, you can go to /trash/ or something

shiori
more like
whiori
she cute tho

>>715581321 (OP)
>Why do indie devs keep lying about genre their games are? This isn't okay.
meanings of words change and they are decided by consensus.
if enough people think the binding of isaac is a roguelike then it is one.

>>715590474
OK I'll go out and tell all of your friends and families that you suck dicks.

>>715588787
bullet heccs

The worst one is when indies pretend that they made a JRPG, and then you click on the trailer and see the most westoid tumblr abomination of character design to ever exist, accompanied by post-ironic writing clearly written by someone who hates JRPGs and probably videogames in general.

>>715590460
Yeah, mine

>>715590596
We get it dude, you hate Epic Battle Fantasy

>>715590325
It is about dodging bullets though. You're playing tight and precise to dodge bullets. Your positioning has to be precise to dodge bullets. You're also just not understanding. When you polarity swap, you have to be accounting for both polarity bullets - you can't be already in a white region when you polarity swap to white or you'd already be dead. The large "safe regions" do not exist when swapping polarity, and the bullet density that you're writing off as illusory is very real in those moments.

>>715582104
OP is trans

>>715590087
>You can also see several instances of tight dodges between enemies with their own hitboxes, which you likely aren't considering as "bullets" because they don't process as such in the traditional sense.
Yes, enemies and walls are fundamentally different and the entirety of the flower pattern is about macro dodging. That webm is very precise, so is every scoring run for every shmup with a competent scoring system and level design. See >>715582394

>>715590165
>>715590710

>>715581321 (OP)
Man I really loved Dead Cells before all the DLC I cba to buy/download. Was a bit annoying back in early access when they seemed to be changing how stats/weapons worked every week, but it was still a good damn time.

>>715584946
>shiori with ??? still
so did the indian doxxfarm just get tired of updating their image, or are SEAniggers just too lazy to get the new one?

>>715591808
I'm not watching that video. It's self-evident what a bullet hell is and one person doesn't get to define games out of it because he has a weird complex. The genre is simply defined by intense, complex patterns of enemy projectiles with a high density of bullets that requires precise movement and strategic thinking to stay alive.

>>715581321 (OP)
Why do roguelitefags absolutely refuse to use the term roguelite instead of roguelike?
There is nothing shameful about roguelites. Why not use the proper term?

>>715581321 (OP)
Sex with Shiori

>>715581321 (OP)
I mean, just look at game play footage and you'd know they're lying. So who gives a fuck.

>>715584946
Biboo 10/10 It's actually unreal how hot she is both her model and IRL.
Sana 9/10
Dogs and Kiara 8/10

>Mumei cuter than her model
kek
Based Shiori never going outside.

>>715593256
you're retarded

Bullet hell, but it's only like the first or second level of hell, so it's not too terrible.

>>715582394
>Enemies throw more than 1 projectiles at a time.
It's a bullet hell!
>Game is a 2d platformer with some form of a map
It's a metroidvania!
>Game is turn based
It's a jrpg!

>>715581321 (OP)
This is accurate but tell that to the Gacha players. They always say WuWa or ZZZ is basically DMC and the best Action games ever. Come to find out they are very barebones and braindead gameplay wise.