Relatedly, I always thought it was kinda weird that Caesar just..... out of the blue had an in-depth discussion about his life's philosophy to some random guy from the Wasteland that likely has no fucking idea what he is talking about. Even this ignores that he likely does this only for the Courier, and therefore the player. He almost-certainly didn't give Lucius, Vulpes or Lanius this talk.
Caesars spiel about Hegelian Dialetics is one of those Obsidianisms, where characters like to talk at you, not to you.
>>715790041 (OP)Bro, have you interacted with people outside? They love to yap and flap, almost everyone is in love with their own voice.
He's impressed and, maybe actually believing himself to be divinely blessed, knows that the Courier's luck and determination make them an central figure in the history about to unfold. He wants the Courier to know exactly what he's about so that they won't make an important decision thinking that Caesar actually is just a warlord killing and raping and enslaving for the love of conquest.
>>715790041 (OP)Holy shit you absolute braindead tourist. Did you even play the game or are you just parroting some reddit tier hot take you read? Of course Caesar dumps his ideology on the Courier you drooling NPC he’s a narcissistic warlord who thinks everyone’s beneath him that’s the whole point. Calling it an "Obsidianism" like you discovered fire just proves you don’t understand jack shit. Go back to your Bethesda slop if dialogue hurts your two braincells retard.
Caesar knew the Courier was a real one who burns local.
people always ask why Caesar doesn't just kill the Courier, but when that does happen through your own actions then you will almost always kill Caesar before the numbers swarm on you. Caesar thinks you could probably worm your way into his camp if you really wanted to anyway.
He only explains it if you ask him about it, pretty sure he only mentions it by name otherwise, also why would he explain himself to his own Legion, they're already following him, you're not at that point
>>715790041 (OP)>dis nigga is actually called edwardlmaoooooo :skull" lil unc thinks his legion has a chance at taking the dam
>>715790347this, caesars actions make sense if viewed from the perspective of playing the game, not if viewed from the quest text on the fallout wiki
Sided with NCR because I didn't want all my work in Fallout 2 to go to waste. Who knows what Caesar would have done to new Arroyo.
>>715790576>NoOoOo DON'T CALL ME THAT! MY NAME IS CAESAR! PRETORIANS, KILL THIS ASSHOLE!
>>715790041 (OP)>out of the blue had an in-depth discussion about his life's philosophy to some random guyyou asked him about it, and its something he probably got asked a lot and discussed it, which is probable seeing as how he has one otherwise he wouldn't have been asked about it. the question you do ask him is basically 'why is the legion so weird/different' which makes sense as no one in the west knows much about the legion besides that they're conquering a lot and
>muh roadsits not like he's not aware of it.
>>715790680>Not giving the mining chip to Dangerous DanNew Reno and Reddings independence would have strengthen Arroyo in return.
>>715791352Made for big NCR cock
>>715791750Nope, Legion only. NCR are just too gay, they cant handle state approved power bottoms.
>>715791965>Too gay for power bottoms...How does this work?
>>715790041 (OP)This is just what he does. Even though he clearly needs a doctor if you hand Arcade over to him he just debates philosophy with Arcade until he kills himself. Caesar is still a Follower at heart he can't escape being an educated person surrounded by barbarians.
>>715792037You tell me, degenerate NCR fag. Hail Caesar!!
>>715790289This. Plus he's genuinely mostly surrounded by illiterate tribals he's conquered, and he's bored out of his mind waiting for things to resolve at the Dam, and he wants to impress you to join his army, no wonder he immediately gives you the spiel to try and convince you.
>>715790041 (OP)Yeah the writing in this game is really bad. It's the kind of thing that is only praised by tabletop nerds because it has a lot of words but in reality it has absolutely no literary value.
King
md5: 211135e95fe5b621a297dd126c156d03
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Soooo, can I still cure him now?
>>715792712>Yeah the writing in this game is really bad.Retard. This is Kino of the highest order
Everything thinks legion is this evil factor that butchers and rapes anything that moves but most normies don’t realise this is the military arm of the faction, and that once a land is conquered, the legion pretty much just leave you to yourself aside from tax and soldiers if the need arises
NPCs even comment snd say they prefer to trade in legion lands due to safety
>>715792986dunno, what's your medicine skill at?
>>715790041 (OP)NV is a poorly written game.
>>715792986The tumor is gone, congrats anon you did it!
>>715793420>this is the military arm of the factionNo, dipshit. The Legion is exactly what you see. A giant nomadic army that does nothing but roam the wasteland subjugating tribal cultures. There's no government, no trade, no cultivation, no industry, no greater society that the Legion protects. That's literally what Caesar wants out of NCR: a real civillian population so he can turn his roaming band of slavers into a standing army that defends against outside threats rather than constantly searching new enemies out.
>>715790041 (OP)>i always thought it was kind of weird that when i asked an autist about something he was hyper fixated with, he explained it to mebro, go to a card shop and ask one of the drooling autists there about skyrim or dark souls, you'd be shocked how much of an explanation they'll give you "out of the blue"
>>715792712>>715793519still infinitely better than 3's
>"go die in a radioactive chamber because it's your destiny (even though you have a ghoul and a robot on your side) or you're a coward" and 4's
>"here's four dialogue options, and also your son has spent several decades kidnapping people and replacing them with robots for some reason"People who like Bethesda's dogshit writing should be banned from discussing RPGs. I can't wait for Microsoft's executives to behead Todd once TES VI flops.
>>715793824>Corruption is rareI never got this. If you have absolute power over someone, you're going to end up abusing them because you're going to view them as lesser than you.
>>715794407Fallout 3 is still way better than 4
>>715790041 (OP)>lmao another braindead NCR bootlicker crying because Caesar actually has a philosophyTypical that Westoids can’t handle a leader who DOESN’T worship their precious “muh democracy” slop. The NCR is just Jewkraine-tier bloated, corrupt and pretending it’s “freedom” while it’s really a puppet for the same rotting system that caused the Wasteland in the first place.
Caesar? He actually UNDERSTANDS history. He saw the failure of liberalism, the same failure you see IRL when Jewkraine or liberals begs for aid and drowns then in their own corruption. He’s tearing it all down so something REAL can be rebuilt.
Courier isn’t some random dude, he’s the key piece in the dialectic. That’s why Caesar talks to him. You’re literally the synthesis in the Hegelian sense between NCR decay and Legion order.
Of course Caesar explains it he’s seeing if you’re worthy to carry HIS vision forward. Lucius, Lanius, Vulpes? They don’t need the talk. They’re already loyal.
Only a liberal retard would call it “characters talking at you” because you can’t process more than “lol wanna trade?” kindergarten dialogue. Sorry Caesar’s not spoonfeeding you moral platitudes like a Fallout 4 NPC.
The Legion is the ONLY faction with long-term vision. NCR is Westoism, House is a Silicon Valley techbroism and Yes Man is the typical delusions of “muh individuality.”
Caesar builds empires. The rest just build excuses.
>>715794606that's not corruption, retard
>i'm a patrician, you're a slave, you work for menot corruption
>i'm a tax collector, you owe me taxes (assigned job) plus you owe me my collection fee (overhead made up by them)corruption
pretty simple
>>715790041 (OP)yeah
the game is terrible
we get it
>>715790041 (OP)The Courier is not a nobody, and Caesar loves to yap.
>>715794830calm your mongol genes Ivan we know you have asiatic mentality and can't live without a boot on your neck
>Caesar's Legion is horrible! I mean, they don't even rape the women! They don't pin them down and ravage them, threatening death until you cum in a humiliated and totally owned state! They fuck each other consensually!
>NOOOOOOO! DON'T TAKE ME TO CIVILIZATION AND SECURITY AS A WIFE!!!
>>715790041 (OP)I kind of liked how nonchalant he actually was about the whole Imperial Rome LARP cult thing. He knew it was just a vernier to make his politics easy for even the dumbest motherfuckers to understand, and he could tell in a moment that you were a free agent capable of processing that information and so he just talked to you like a normal fucking person, even half-joking about the whole "Hail Ceasar" thing. He's a smart guy who is in essence a self-aware middle-aged cult leader with a decent grasp of history/psychology and some big ideas.
"Roman Legion" is just the packaging. The reason he likes talking to you (and Arcade for that matter) is because the substance and the larger implications of where he's trying to go with this aren't lost on you.
>>715790041 (OP)It's not a problem of just Obsidian itself, it's a problem with modern development where designers think the player should be treated like a golden boy instead of the player having to struggle and fight to survive. Information and knowledge is power, especially in a wasteland, the passing of information should not be freely given unless proper discussion with tact are had that denotes the exchange of info for more info or to further strengthen the power structure. More so with Caesar's Legion which is trying to ape Right Wing thought.
>>715790041 (OP)I kind of liked how nonchalant he actually was about the whole Imperial Rome LARP cult thing. He knew it was just a veneer to make his politics easy for even the dumbest motherfuckers to understand, and he could tell in a moment that you were a free agent capable of processing that information and so he just talked to you like a normal fucking person, even half-joking about the whole "Hail Ceasar" thing. He's a smart guy who is in essence a self-aware middle-aged cult leader with a decent grasp of history/psychology and some big ideas.
"Roman Legion" is just the packaging. The reason he likes talking to you (and Arcade for that matter) is because the substance and the larger implications of where he's trying to go with this aren't lost on you.
>>715791750He will enslave and breed prime tomboy NCR Ranger pussy instead.
he was cocky and grooming you to be his successor or champion
its not like any of what he said was a secret
>>715796804Uh...there's no image of that is there? Haha...
>>715792615I like the ending where if you give him Arcade as his personal doctor, Caesar genuinely enjoys having an educated conversation partner while Arcade hates it so much he eventually kills himself
>>715796804>>715796910In fact, there is.
Fight back against all gay Legion shilling.
Legion is for strong men who take whatever woman they claim as their wife.
>>715796506>designers think the player should be treated like a golden boyThe player in a Fallout game is a golden boy, by necessity. The story is a power fantasy, has been from before the Vault Dweller left Vault 101 to bring back the Water Chip. The story had already singled your character out as someone special.
Caesar doesn't really give you much information besides elaborating upon what you would have already observed, and then pitching some of his plan to you. You're clearly a cut above, you've drawn the attention of House and others, so it'd be far more retarded if he treated you like any old random wastelander fuck
>>715797061Because I fucked up and said vernier instead of veneer like a retard. Please don't notice.
NCR lost me when they didn't have an Absolute Monarchy, that's why Legion is superior.
>>715797397What kind of stupid ass name is Arcade Dumbledore anyway
>>715797607it was Arcade Ganondorf dumbass
>>715797496>The player in a Fallout game is a golden boy, by necessity. The story is a power fantasyThere's absolutely nothing wrong with the player character being rightfully regarded as the most capable person around after they've done even a couple big quests against insurmountable odds only to simply return with whatever item you were tasked to get.
I'm not sure why people get upset at the player character being the center of attention. They're obviously the one to go to if you need something important done, in-universe.
>>715797397>enslaves arcade>assassinates caesar>doesn't elaborate>yes man endings
>>715797638I thought he was talking about Arcade Bumstead (I'd hit it)
>>715797496Fallout and all CRPGs for that matter are trying to ape D&D. Real Dungeons and Dragons is OD&D or the OSR, where the player is akin to nearly be a farm-man, where he has to use his wits to overcome hierarchy and knowing when and how to use violence/action. This philosophy and the way games are played has completely shifted for a more infantilzed/superhero bullshit that you see everywhere in games today, I believe the only game that shied somewhat away from it was Outward. Caesar treats the player outright too favorable in my opinion.
>>715796545In that he also exposed the weakness of the Legion: they are ill-equipped and unprepared for the dangers of pre-war facilities. He fears even exposing his smart guys to it would give them wrong ideas that these things might actually be useful. In that, he needs a free agent like a Courier who can do the taboo things, and the "Caesar's Hire" and "Caesar's Favor" quests signify that he wants to expand the cards in his hand beyond the Legion.
It's especially funny how the latter quest is ideal for a Courier who uses energy weapons while supporting the Legion.
>>715797704Its a give and take. Yes the Vault Dweller, Chosen One, etc are special bois that accomplish great feets but they had to accomplish said feets to obtain their reputation. Chosen One might have been jerked off in Arroyo but only by literal who tribals, and maybe the BoS because they owed the Vault Dweller a favor. Otherwise everyone just calls you an ooga booga tribal that should stick to hanging out with Torr. Vault Dweller himself even had a harder time. He was just the guy that drew the shortest straw, he didn't become the legend that he is until he took on an entire army of mutants. Courier is setup similarly. A stiff that was meant to be left out in a grave, except that the bullet was 6 inches to the left.
>>715797704>>715797496They dropped the ball in fallout4 where you might get "respect" in a faction but outside of them you start as a literal who to the next one
Maybe it's meant to be because power armor is just lying around but the railroad/raiders trying to intimidate you just felt like a big fuck you nothing you did matters
>>715798118It's also important to remember the Vault Dweller was genuinely a random dude that was sent out into the Wasteland like so many from his same vault before him. He wasn't chosen specifically, he was simply next in line. Other dwellers had failed in getting a water chip well before he was selected by the overseer to go get it.
The Chosen One, similarly, is one of many who are called, but the only one that survives the temple. That's what makes them "chosen" to their tribe. Everyone else selected ended up dead before they could even begin, which makes the Chosen One a cut above everyone else.
I suppose that's one of my complaints about the Lone Wanderer, complaints that have been repeated dozens of times already.
>>715798473I feel like the Chosen and Lone Wanderer somewhat also get glazed because of nepotism. But with the Chosen his connection to the Vault Dweller is pretty shaky, so NPCs usually have the understandable reaction of calling it into question. And who knows, the Chosen One could actually be a step child or something. I know with the Restoration Project they added Kaga, which while kinda of a shit character, does highlight something missing in that the Chosen wasn't the first one sent out. Lone Wanderer is mainly propped up because he's the son of James. So depending on how familiar they are with James they may or may not give a shit. Until you meet Fawkes with his muh destiny bs but like you said, its part of the problem with that character.
I tried playing Fallout New Vegas the other day again after not having touched it in five years, 700 hours on record by the way. I dont know if I changed in the last five years or what, but the game is boring, the game doesnt even justify combat, you just shoot, loot, kill. At least Fallout 1 and Underrail are fun.
>>715797779that's the joke, anon.
>>715797914>Fallout and all CRPGs for that matter are trying to ape D&DFallout, as a setting, has other influences as well. And from the start you were already pegged as more than just some farm-man. And I mean from the VERY start, when you fill out your sheet or select a preset. You excel in several areas and have unique talents. You could say you're destined for greatness and it isn't long before you're out proving it. This happens in EVERY Fallout game.
You want to play as Regular Joe Nobody and struggle to do anything noteworthy, you'd need to limit the campaigns to something small scale and mundane. That isn't what the premise of any Fallout game sets you up for. Rather than think of your ideal D&D campaign, look at the specific stories being told here and what they expect from the main character.
>>715798473>the Vault Dweller was genuinely a random dude that was sent out into the Wasteland like so many from his same vaultThey sent two people out, they failed, then he was sent alone. But this is missing the point. Fallout simply isn't a low stakes enough setting from the onset that any of you can reasonably expect your character not to be treatee like they're special beyond the first handful of quests.
>>715801029He says this despite also admitting that they had to cut out Legion settlements that would be free of bandits and creatures to kill. In the finished game, yes, the Legion is basically only portrayed as what you see on the frontlines.
>>715790041 (OP)New Vegas is a tranny game
>>715799760Have you reached Vegas yet? Yeah the early game (if you go the intended route) is a total slog, i seriously considered no longer playing, but then I got to vegas and was reminded that the game is still peak kino
>>715801668unlike nortubel
>>715790203> thinking that Caesar actually is just a warlord killing and raping and enslaving for the love of conquest.That's exactly what he is.
>>715804906He explicitly says he wants his Legion to settle, to not make them into a roaming warband, and for that he needs his New Rome, aka Vegas.
>>715804964>two more villages pillaged, raped and killed to flatten the curve!
>>715805527Vegas is apex dominating.
>>715794407>>"go die in a radioactive chamber because it's your destiny (even though you have a ghoul and a robot on your side) or you're a coward"Or even a fucking Super Mutant. To this day I'm still flabbergasted they thought this was a good idea in any measure.
>>715806302Whats even better is that, with Broken Steel, isn't there an option where you can send in Fawkes to do it? The entirety of the ending slides is just shitting on the Lone Wanderer (and extention the player) for doing that.
>>715790041 (OP)I like how Arcade tells the Courier he is ashamed of being associated with a "fascist" organization, a word the Courier likely doesn't even know. The game has a lot of moments where NPCs talk at the player and not the player character.
>>715790680Based. Fallout 1 led to the NCR being created in Fallout 2, so I sided with the NCR in Fallout 2. Fallout 2 led to the NCR becoming a major faction, so I sided with the NCR in Fallout New Vegas. Any other choice is self-cucking.
>>715790041 (OP)He's trying to convince you to join the legion and kinda spell it out rather clearly he wants you in legion politics/to be his successor
Is it only me or does the game kind of (unintentionally) railroad you against the Legion? Boone is going to be most people's first companion because he's in the way and he shoots legionaries on sight, eventually leading to them shooting you on sight too. I assumed the Legion were always meant to be hostile at first.
>>715808586the first companion who's in the way is ED-E
>>715795431I really do wonder what domestic life in a more evolved post vegas legion would be like, and since Caesar is partially using divine justification that he's the son of Mars what their religion would end up like.
I'm somewhat glad my obsession with this artist's stuff is spreading to others but also rather concerned
>>715808678Do you have the means to activate it right away though?
>>715808586>(unintentionally)It's rather intentional, NCR has the vast majority of the content and the game is designed in so that the most average basic player goes through the most content by just going with the flow, Legion is literally 2nd playthrough shorter side content for when you already know everything and want to be on the otherside and do devious stuff.
>>715808963I mean If you grab the right junk or repair max with a magazine you can
>>715809170Hmm, maybe my character wasn't specced right. I remember not being able to turn on ED-E until later due to a skill check or something like that. There are no prerequisites to hire Boone other than completing his quest.
>>715790680Caesar's Arroyo is safer then Amazon's NCR territory!
>>715808586>Is it only me or does the game kind of (unintentionally) railroad you against the Legion?It's 100% intentional. The game heavily paints the Legion as the bad guys and the NCR as the good guys. I know it's cringe but I'll sometimes watch NV playthroughs and skim around to see how the person reacts to Legion and NCR encounters. Most people just go guns blazing on the Legion (especially women) without ever actually interacting or thinking more about them.
>>715808264You can never bring back fallen warriors, because they'll see everything they fought and died for turned to shit
>>715809985I just don't like slavers. I didn't think much about Paradise Falls either. Or Metzger, or the Khans.
>>715790041 (OP)At the most fundamental level... it's a joke.
The legion has shown itself to be nothing but ruthless monsters incapable of any reason, you're expecting the leader to be equally monstrous, but when you meet him, not only does he speak reason, but he does it with an almost posh accent.
They do this joke again with the homeless dude I forget the name of, who speaks only gibberish, but if you also have 1 INT, he'll talk to you in a comically eloquent way. Caeser is no different. The reason he is so smart and reasonble, it's because it's funny that way.
Caesar read about the collapse of Rome and about the Great War from the Followers, and he realized that history had yet again repeated itself. Rather than allow people to be grouped into tribes before growing into nation yet again, he decided that every tribe and identity needed to be exterminated in favor of his own "perfect" society of warriors.
I put "perfect" in quotes because when Caesar's Legion breaks apart they will be doing so under the understanding that all of them are now living a Legion lifestyle and have the same culture and identity despite living under different leaders and towns. Basically imagine if Rome had actually fully Romanized all the places they controlled, and that's Caesar's vision.
When it collapses, it won't be the end of the world but a brand new beginning with a clean slate culture of strength and reliance on human muscle to build from.
>>715808334I never got the implication that he wanted the courier to be his successor. That seems to always go to the Legate. Even in the Caesars Legion campaign the best you get is an honorary mint.
>>715810539If it works it works
>>715811062I like this idea, but didn't he say he only chose Rome because he needed something to 'style' his Legion on?
Still cool idea either way
>>715809985>I'll sometimes watch NV playthroughs and skim around to see how the person reacts to Legion and NCR encounters.Got anything good?
>>715811376>I never got the implication that he wanted the courier to be his successor.It's pretty clear from the conversations you have with him and the way he treats you, that he does.
>Even in the Caesars Legion campaign the best you get is an honorary mint.Do you even realize how much of an outstanding achievement that is? The Courier is etched onto their currency. It's something every member of the Legion uses and sees on a daily basis. Every person in the Legion, civilian and soldier alike will know who the Courier is and how important of a person he is to have the honor of being on their currency. It's more than the NCR does with their civilian branch award.
>>715812026Speaking of mints why does Caesar still have Joshua Graham depicted on one if his coins when even uttering his name is forbidden?
>>715804906You're right, but Caesar sees an opportunity to make history remember his raping and pillaging in a positive light.
I think it's hilarious that Caesar is just a Follower that went postal one day and used his Sun Tzu knowledge to become a warlord
>>715812196To be fair, Josh don't look like that no more.
>>715790289>Dropping Wikipedia quotes>Basing his philosophy on Hegal instead of Livy, Tacitus, Polybius, Diodorus Siculus, Cato the Elder, Dio Cassius, Gnaeus Gellius, Quintus Ennius, Plutarch, Appian or any other ancient author that would have made sense>Because the game is written by lefty midwits who are familiar with hegal on a Wikipedia but not much more than that If you think Troon Vegays has deep writing you are also a midwit
>Want to do Legion playthrough
>Graham always sways me from it
Damn...they made him too good....
>>715812293That's what's so great about the character. Behind the reputation of the Legion as this fanatical army of berserker raiders speaking broken latin, behind the mighty Caesar, it's basically a fucking school teacher named Ed Sallow who saw dumbass, superstitious tribals and came up with a cool idea
It reminds me of that old cliche where a civilized white man gets stuck on a tropical island and somehow convinces the native savages to make him their king
>>715813216Fallout 2 had optional gay romance retard you dont know what woke is.
>>715790041 (OP)This poster
>>715790174 makes a good point. Many people would jump at the opportunity of being asked about that idea they thought up. Ceasar loved debating with Arcade Gaynon too, even though that faggot has nothing of value to say. It's because his subjects were raised to do things because Ceasar said so, so suddenly sprouting the ability for independent thoughts is unlikely. The few people that did either never got a chance to speak to Ceasar personally or are currently lashed to a cross.
>>715794407>Violence is funnyGod Howard is fundamentally correct unlike the bleeding heart hippy fags who made Troon Vegays and couldn't include dungeons cause 'murder dungeons' bad.
>>715813216https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxvxVS8RGJY&t=169s
>>715813457My Chosen One is for Kor only.
>>715813216The cannibal option to eat the baby is from a mod.
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/5109
>>715813787Don't try to argue with the jeets. Either don't engage at all if you don't want to feed the trolls or feed off of them yourself. But don't try to prove something wrong.
>>715790347I've never understood why people think that. From the perspective of Caesar, you got shot in the head, lived, and went on a one man rampage across the Mojave, and in some cases, destroying outposts belonging to his greatest enemy with relative ease. You managed to switch on an ancient weapon to laser down all NCR troops at Helios One. You eviscerate Camp McCarran. Every other minor outpost is obliterated. If you do this early enough, you kill Mr House in his own home when nobody else could even get inside the Lucky 38. From the perspective of Caesar, you are a literal demi god, he does not want to fuck with you. Even unarmed, he's smart enough to know you'd figure a way out.
>>715811376Legate is infinitely more based than the Courier.
>>715790041 (OP)>ask him what he’s about>he tells you> this is out of the blueIf you want to bitch about the game, just do it, don’t be a faggot and lie about it.
Fabio
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>>715809985That's because Troon Vegays is an antifa propaganda game meant to gaslight gamers into taking a an antifa tranny point of view. This is why there are no legion companions and all your followers give you Reddit teir lectures if you even think about joining them and you lose out on a majority of the game if you do. It's why so many side quests are just about helping the NCR instead of the unique and varied quests we got in Chadout 3.
Whereas in Basedout 3 we had evil companions and could be evil without countless fascism bad lectures.
>>715814485Hahaha rent free
>Fallout 3 schizo is at it again
>>715814235Your lame ass courier, maybe
>>715808070Ideen it's so obvious it's an antifa propaganda game I am surprised that almost no one else picks up on this
>>715813605There are dungeons retard. And as for you retarded meme
>ghost town gunfight/run goodsprings run>my kind of town>fly me to the moon>unfriendly persuasion >where the grass stands>birds of a feather>boulder city showdownAnd that’s just off the top of my head.
>>715814595>shitskin is so mad people call him out he has to make a meme to copeCrying tranny won’t make you white.
>>715808264How is it self cucking? The Courier is not the Chosen One. The Courier is not the Vault Dweller. The Courier isn't (you) either. The only non self cucking options for the courier are Independent and House (because you eventually take over as his successor). The Courier owes no duty to the accomplishments of the two totally different people from previous games.
>>715815259>4chan is slow as it's ever been>autistic retarded shitposters/bots are still just as activeit's so fucking over dude
>>715813216I didn't recognize all the names you listed so I took a look at one, Appian. He was supposedly a historian.
Did he write something else, did you want to pad the list or are you implying one can form a philosophy based on history books?
>>715790041 (OP)whos to say he doesnt do this with everyone?
>>715815794He wrote about Roman military history and is one of our only surviving sources for the fall of Carthage. You think that such a Roman thinker would be quoted at least once but the writers are lefty midwits so no. FS they didn't even have him quote Plutarch who's biographies you think would be a huge influence.
>>715815794Because he doesn’t know what’s he’s talking about and is just labeling people that have to do with Rome hoping no one would say anything about it not being about philosophy.
>>715790680Siding with House is what's ultimately best for the NCR. The NCR's corrupt and incompetent leadership gets crushed/discredited, their imperialistic ambitions become short lived, and NCR citizens are still permitted access to New Vegas, which is now under the protection of the Securitron army + the tribal alliance.
>>715790041 (OP)Fallout is dead, who cares?
>>715790041 (OP)>some random guy from the Wastelanduhm...it was a gal
>>715790041 (OP)Caesar is an NCR citizen first and foremost. He's all about that shit, it's all he can think about; purifying the NCR in a tide of blood and injecting tribal virility into the ailing ossified trash he considers a home
>>715814921Nuh-uh my Curry is infinitely more based then yours.
>>715817618That doesn’t disprove what I said. I don’t know what you hoped to accomplish with this?
>>715818131Because I clearly own works of the authors I quoted so I in fact do know what I am talking about. The person who tried to repute me didn't even know who half the authors I quoted are and I also showed how they are relevant to the Legion's philosophy.
>>715790041 (OP)>but why have an in-depth discussion with a strangerHe had a captive (and possibly in his eyes, reasonable and noteworthy) audience and took his opportunity to talk about an important element of his life's work. He clearly likes to hear himself speak at length about his perspective on the world and probably desires some kind of feedback from someone close to being a peer. Although I doubt he can necessarily take genuinely negative criticism. One of his endings, as I recall, has him take Arcade as a hostage and he ends up having philosophical discussions with him, up until the day Arcade ropes himself; it's a part of his nature as a leader and orator, he appreciates having someone around worth speaking to.
>>715792712It's also woke and home to one of the worst fandoms in vidya history.
>hey guys oxhorn here and i'm gonna tell you why fnv proves atheism is right, but first my friend hbomberguy will tell you why the holodomor never happened and pronouns must be respected>*redditors cream themselves and scream in joy*
>>715820031Oxhorn is a hbomberguy fag?
>>715818585>he appreciates having someone around worth speaking to."Worth speaking to" in no way, shape, or form describe Arcade. Ceasar appreciates having someone around that can serve as an excuse for him to hear his own voice and not look like a shcizo talking to himself in front of his guard.
>>715814509Saving this for whenever someone claims FNV isn't shit or that Chris is based.
>they treat women bad therefore they have no redeeming qualities and should not existIgnoring shit like how the NCR guns down civilians. But no, they're good guys and the Legion is fascist (it actually isn't) and therefore it doesn't have a single point and the player should want to eradicate them.
Uh hey, faggots. I said Fallout is DEAD. MOVE ON! A modern entry did a no-no so you have to stop liking it now, it’s not trendy anymore.
>>715820031Since when do redditfags and trannies want to cover up the Ukrainian version of the holocaust? Is Ukraine no longer a current thing? And to such a degree, no less?
>>71582026799% of the Falloutuber scene is hbomberguyfags. They're all breadtubers. The only ones I know of who weren't were Mittensquad, who's dead, and Creetosis, a bitter autist who's fighting a losing battle.
>>715790041 (OP)I imagine he is really bored sitting in his tent all day
>>715820407Because while redditfags hate Russia almost as much as their parents, acknowledging the Holodomor would be acknowledging that communists committed systematic genocide. The Great Leap Forward and Khmer Rouge get similar treatment.
>>715813216wish someone made a collection of all your images
big fan
>>715790174Yeah he was probably desperate to talk to someone who wasn't an underling of his.
>>715818402>Because I clearly own works of the authors I quoted so I in fact do know what I am talking aboutExcept you don’t since this doesn’t have to do with philosophy which is what you’re bitching about.
>half the authors i quoted So you acknowledge the others weren’t, good job retard.
>>715820649Oh, right, I forgot about that. I figured they'd at least have the decency to keep their mouths shut about that until Ukraine stops being trendy. Telling a Ukie holodomor wasn't a thing is about as polite as calling a nigger a nigger.
>>715790041 (OP)he's a pseud who has to ramble to strangers in order to feel smart. No one else in the legion is smart enough, hence why he chews Arcade's ear off until he kills himself if you sell him to the legion
>>715820384>Ignoring shit like how the NCR guns down civiliansThe khans deserved it and Avellone is talking out of his ass to win good boy points.
>>715808586The first time you meet anyone from the Legion they're razing a town, crucifying dudes due to the result of some sick lottery they forced everyone to take part in and when you ask them why they did this a character with a comedic "evil" voice tells you the town were all degenerate backstabbers and then walk off with the quest log "tell people of the atrocities you saw at nipton".
It also doesn't help that there is very little Legion content in the game so even if you do want to side with them you miss out on so much and lose three companions iirc. You interact with the NCR in so many locations that you're really railroaded into siding with them and why wouldn't you? I was a dumb teen when I played it and I understood them as "democracy faction" whereas everyone else had to sell me on their side and I was too dumb to pay attention or care. There isn't even a cool Legion armour like the Ranger Armour for the NCR, if Lanius' armour was something you could come across and wear during a normal playthrough I imagine people might've had more reasons to side with the Legion.
I know there's a bunch of mods that create an entire Legion occupied area over the dam that you can explore and quest in and it seems like that's what NV was lacking, a location where you can learn and see the Legion at their best. The NCR are barely holding onto Vegas and are stretched thin, meanwhile the Legion can be seen being prosperous and strong mere miles away.
It is a shame because when I played the game the first time I did see the Legion as the antagonist of the story and when I sided with them on my 4th playthrough I just rushed to the end because it wasn't very fun. But after years of reading up about NV and all the factions, I can see them as a "necessary evil" to give order to the wasteland.
Jesus fucking Christ this thread nosedived hard. You win, I won't bother talking about the game in this thread. Goddamn.
>>715808586yeah the legion is meant to be the bad guys route and it was finished last
>inb4 all the retards going muh morally greythey're not
you literally gain karma killing them
>>715820503>Creetosis, a bitter autist who's fighting a losing battleCreetosis is a massive /pol/tard and still supports Trump through the Epstein shit despite being a CANADIAN and lied to a tranny artist about his political views to commission his furry vtuber. Creetosis also brushes shoulders with Enclave Emily, a literal tranny who is somehow a conservative. They are both losers and farm Bethesda hatewatchers on YouTube by pretending to be smart and making up shit about Fallout that isn’t even true just to make people more mad. They are the epitome of the worst Fallout fans.
>>715811478but it doesn't work, it's a horribly inefficient system especially in a world with tech like fallout
>>715814509there is more than just misogyny on why you would hate legion lol
>>715821468How is slavery inefficient?
>>715821234you can get lanius armor in the divide plus his sword
>>715821824Paradoxically it requires nuking the legion, even if youre doing a legion run. Lame as hell.
>>715821016I showed that Roman military history is immensely relivent to the Legion's worldview plus history is important to philosophy countless philosophers quote historical works and philosophical works influence philosophical viewpoints. Moreover classical historians were much more philosophical than modern historians making philosophical points in their works to point of being practically philosophers themselves. The works of Roman historians also showed the Roman world philosophical outlook something that should be important to Caesar. Anyway people like Caesar referred to classical historians to justify their worldview and decisions Catherine the Great studied and used Tactics immensely and Napoleon sought to emulate many of Plutarch's heroes.
>>715821718time and time again it's proven that humans are more productive when happy and their needs filled, slavers barely produce shit and die at great numbers requiring an unsustainable system of raiding to keep slave numbers up
slavery is only good at generating free profits for the ruling class at the expense of the lower classes who can't compete with the price of free labor
overall it's like steroids, can feel good for a while but shows side effects really quick
>>715821875I found it without nuking them, only the helmet plus the sword from what i've seen
not sure if his chest piece exists anywhere, he doesn't drop it on death
>>715822128What, is that actually possible? Pretty sure Dry Wells only unlocks after you nuke.
>>715813605>heckin side queststhe main quest is literally two decisions
>>715822287>the main quest is literally two decisionsFallout 1 and 2 are hardly better in this regard either. New Vegas is an exception and not a rule.
>>715822243I am not sure if difficulty played a role, I was playing on hardcore mode
>Multiple copies can be found in the Divide, occasionally carried by marked men marauders.helmet
>Worn by one of the four unique marked men, Bonesaw, southeast of the Ashton silo control station near a small building.https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Bonesaw_(character)
>>715822416Not him but NV is the only good Fallout. Classic Fallouts, even if they can match NV's roleplaying freedom, have dogshit gameplay anyway. NV is the only game with a semblance of buildcrafting. It's all rose-tinted glasses shit.
>>715821824I meant it more as an endgame armour that high ranking members use and you can use it at the end of the game. Like the BoS have their Power Armor and NCR have Ranger Armor so it'd be cool if Legion had a cool looking special armour they give to their elite members.
>>715822453Neat. Real shame about the lack of chestplate though.
>>715822287but muh biblical themes and shiet
>>715820649Breadtube aren't communist their conintel pro and pro-regime change. All of them supported regime change in Syria, all of them hate the DPRK and all of them supported imperialism. Breadtube is CIA and MI5 created fake communism that are there to divert the left away from class struggle and anti-imperalism and instead towards identity politics that protect the elite. This was all exposed by Caleb Maupin and the grayzone.
Of course the pseudos were seething when he published this book.
>>715822580I thought the centurion and pretaorion armors were cool and hated that I can't wear them without getting shot at in most places, but yeah the ranger and BOS armors are just too iconic and mog everything else
not sure if you can count lonesome road's armor that ulyseus gives
>>715822615yeah lanius doesn't even drop it, not sure if it's an actual piece at all in the code
>>715822714Am I supposed to trust this dude instead? I'd be wary of both breadtube and whatever this dude tries to peddle.
>>715822023Any books on this? Not American chattle slavery, please.
>>715822552Maybe its my autism or something but I honestly prefer classic Fallouts gameplay over modern Fallout. At least in key areas. For one the death animations are immensly satisfying. 3D ragdolls just dont compare to watching a man get his torso blown off. Also while the hacking and lockpicking minigame might be fun at first. I think I prefer a straight skill check. Lastly, travel is done better. You get less of your time eaten up by traversing desert and morr time to interact with the cities and their quests.
>>715823171books on worker happiness affecting productivity? the happiness advantage by shawn achor
drive : the surprising truth about what motivates us by daniel pink
wellbeing : the five essential elements by tom rath and jim harter
pretty sure there are more, plus research papers and peer reviewed studies if you search for them
>>715808070Civilization didn't just start over from completely nothing in Fallout. They use and understand republic, democracy, monarchy, constitution, etc. Even if they carry slightly different connotations in the post-apocalyptic world. Why wouldn't the guy who was trained and educated by the group with an old-world library not understand and tuse the term fascist?
If you think Ceasar's Legion is fascist, you should see my independent play through...
>>715823323I like classic fallout but I view Classic, Bethesda, and Obsidian Fallout as Three Separate Franchises with different genres.
>>715808070doubt the term fascist died out with the NCR's entire propaganda being about democracy and freedom and mimicking the USA
>>715823323That's not gameplay, that's visuals and a lack of gameplay. I'm talking shit like different weapon classes, different armor classes, different skill setups, it's all either Diplomat Sniper Power Armor Pulse Rifle (Plasma Rifle if 1) or various flavors of complete garbage. In NV every weapon class has top notch builds and several competing weapons per class, and at the very least light and heavy armor both have their niches and feature several competetive sets in each.
>>715790041 (OP)>ask question to caesar>he respondsOMG HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN!!!
>>715811631Yeah, the legion is more like a roaming warband that extracts tribute from settled 'civilised' peoples, and absorbs other tribal groups into it. Their roman attributes are mostly aesthetic aside from maybe their military chain of command
>>715823556Fallout NV truly is an anomaly in being a blend of certain aspect of Fallout 1/2 while also using the skeleton of Fallout 3 for the gameplay. I do think some qualities though from Fallout 1/2 and Van Buren didn't quite pan out with the Fallout 3 engine. Like traversing the mojave. I'll give F3 this in that pure exploration is more fun in that game.
>>715823698I can see your point. The general balancing of Fallout 1/2 in general would be the thing I'd look forward to most in a supposed remake. I still think there's a decent build variety in the old games (more so 2) if you don't go out of your way to make a broken as fuck agility small guns build or something completely non-functional like traps. But it could be done better. Also the actual systems could be more in depth with Fallout 1/2. Stuff like armor generally has a linear upgrade branch of going from Jacket > Leather > Combat > T-51b > APA. But I do think the great visuals make it up to me. 3/NV have this weightlessness in everything, even gunplay. It never felt concrete to me.
>>715794830love when russians post shit like this, as if you have a choice in what you have
>>715805527I know it's a reddit point to make but we never got to see 80+% of the Caesar's Legion content that the devs had in mind because of Bethesda's time constraints. Every piece of the Legion that made it into New Vegas is, lore-wise, essentially just a FOB. The Legion was supposed to be a massive society with very peaceful and successful communities inside their borders that you could visit in-game. Turns out when you enslave and crucify thieves and violent criminals your nation will be safe, who could have guessed
Are there some mods that specifically expand on slavery in the Legion?
>>715822287Those two choices change the actual state of the post game world whereas in Troonout Neo Vagina it only changes what is said in the PowerPoint presentation at the end.
>>715790041 (OP)You have a discussion WITH a guy, not TO them, Hispanic ESL-kun.
>>715825223I can't wrap my head around the mental maturity of people who post shit like this
>>715823505Awesome, thank you!
>>715825512>jeetout 3 ending gets invalidated by its own DLC>chad vegas let you decide the fate of the mojave on your own termsBethesda RPGs are simply not good, no matter how many times you cry about trannies
>>715816790>The NCR's corrupt and incompetent leadership gets crushed/discredited, their imperialistic ambitions become short livedThis, the NCR needs a black eye and some self-reflection. If the Courier helps the NCR, then people like Kimball and Oliver remain in charge. On that note, it's best to keep Kimball alive too, as not to give the NCR a martyr.
>>715816790and that's why I killed house and kimball
>>715821409Still better than cretins like HBG and Oxhorn.
>>715826092Pay attention shit Vegays Troon cause this has already been explained.
The LW is a holy man who can slay over 10,000 demonic mutants in a single battle and has subdued millions of mutant demons across the wasteland. Yet he has to fulfil his ultimate destiny and sacrifice himself to introduce the purifying virus to cleanse the world of all mutants and radiation for rest of time. This is the ultimate biblical epic in gaming form and it cannot be refunded.
Plus at least there is a post end game world for you to see the results of your actions rather than just a faggy PowerPoint presentation.
I just made 50,000 caps gambling at the Atomic Wrangler. What should I buy.
>>715790041 (OP)You can't expect an action rpg to give super nuanced politics and philosophy. It just gives the bare minimum to understand the character. Just be glad it portrays the NCR as heavily flawed throughout. If there's anything to be really disappointed by it's how betheseda and the the tv show has turned the fictional portrayal of Howard Hughes into an orchestrator of nuclear world war 3. Howard Hughes was nowhere near the biggest contractor of any war, not world war 2, not korea, and not vietnam. Just because he was kind of eccentric and crazy doesn't mean he was at the top of global war schemes.
>>715827201Hell yeah! Ghoul ass for me….
>>715813216>relatively well-read guy unites tribals under a simple existing banner and keeps going through sheer momentum>therefore he himself must follow the philosophies of ancient Rome (when it's shown he doesn't even practice what he preaches in regards to advanced technology)Why are you retarded?
By the time you meet Caesar, the Courier is already a murder death machine that made a name for himself.
>>715827838Meeting Vulpes in Nipton after you’ve already done a bunch of quests for the legion is really fun
>>715822714t. someone who doesn't know why cultural marxism is the only kind of marxism that has penetrated Western thought.
You can't agitate the working class if they are actually content with their jobs. Traditional Marxists were virtually powerless to rile up "the masses" so most of them pivoted into a new front, the culture war. The New Left went hard on that and most notbaly created one of the most insane collective guilt in human history, the white guilt.
>>715820503>>715821409There are two camps of online Fallout fans. The leftoid majority who circlejerk until their brains rot over how heckin' epic it is the multimillion dollar corporate franchise panders to them and supports their failed ideology (reddit, NMA, breadtube) and the minority of rightoids who can't cope with the fact the thing they like is leftist propaganda and they can't change it, so instead of doing something like, idk, making a new apolitical or rightist version of the thing, they just scream autistically into the void (Creetosis, Arch, etc).
Happens with Star Wars, capeshit, Star Trek, Warhammer, the list goes on.
>>715826523>sacrifice himself to introduce the purifying virus to cleanse the world of all mutants and radiation for rest of timeAnd kills everyone else in the process. When you drink the Aqua Pura with the FEV you instantly die. It isn't a magical cleasing tool that gets rid of mutated radioactive life, it's a generic bioweapon that the Enclave wants to use to ensure get rid of any potential resistance in the mainland regardless of their origin.
>>715828306The incoming vibe shit will create right-leaning works and IPs that'll open the way to franchises.
>>715828705Dream on at this point I'm sure the industry will kill it self before that ever happens.
>>715827715>Bases his worldview on Rome>Uses classical Latin as the official language >Worships the Roman gods>Reefers to aspects of the real Caesar's life to justify his decisions>Makes use of ancient Roman military punishments such a crucifixion and Decimation>Recreates Roman military ranks and institutionsYet doesn't quote actual Roman authors only Hegal to make his points
>>715828973>media industries never have their own youth counterculture It's coming, anon.
>>715829081Rome is merely a starting blueprint, not the entire rulebook itself.
>>715829081They might not have many of those older sources left, only whatever history textbooks survived.
>>715828705There's no money in it because most of the right-wing audience has better or at least more important shit to do and spend money on than vidya. The reddit mod who's at his computer 20 hours of the day living with his grandparents, drawing a disability check, and running a patreon for furry porn has far more time and expendable cash than the guy who works as a security guard 50 hours a week and occasionally plays a few hours of vidya on weeknights.
Because the former largely tends to be liberal/leftist and the latter largely tends to be conservative/centrist, games will never be right-wing.
>>715829363Hence the incoming vibe shift. For the first time since the 60s, kids nowadays can get a full grasp on how batshit insane the New Left has become and gravitates into more conservative or centrist political positions because they have no civil rights hangups to truly "rally" against (the New Left tried to make it about trannies and it backfired against women). Most of the audiences that play video games lean right of centre nowadays so it's only a matter of time they disseminate into making games themselves.
>>715820786It was like Bob Chandler telling everything to trolls who called his house because he desperately wanted someone to talk to.
>>715817618>translationsOH NO NO NO NO
NON HOC MODO SORORES
>>715829897While I agree that rightist/centrist gamers are the majority (especially taking into account the Asian market which is overwhelmingly conservative, even the CCP compared to western leftism), the issue isn't numbers, it's funds. Leftist Reddit admin #69 probably has more time and money to spend on video games than ten non-leftists do.
>>715830147Yes, nobody doubts leftist entrenchment in the industry. In most accounts, O'Sullivan's law reigns supreme. I'm saying the counterculture will eventually bleed into it as much as those who lean left try to "gatekeep" them out with purity checks or make them out to be creepy boogeymen. It'd be like employing a goth chick in the 90s as a dev, at some point they just become people who are more inline with what the playerbase wants.
>>715830137It's quite obvious you've never touched or read a Loeb in your life despite the shitposting.
>>715828257>cultural marxismIsn't a thing it's Neo-liberalism not Marxism it serves Wall Street and imperialism you can't call yourself a Marxist if you want to destroy every existing anti-imperialist country in favour of the ruling classes. The likes of the Frankford school were funded by the CIA to undermine and castrate the left and we're heavily criticised by every actual communist leaders from Hoxha to Kim Il Sung.
>You can't agitate the working class if they are actually contentHence why anti-imperialism is the real issue today which the synthetic neo liberal rejects in favour of cheerleading imperialism. Every actual communist party outside the west completely rejects woke identity politics and has solidarity with the anti-imperialist powers.
>the culture war.Which was created to divert the left away from movements like Occupy Wall Street and solidarity with the DPRK, Russia and China to instead being lackies of the ruling classes. The woke left are in fact social fascists by the exact definition that Stalin gave.
>the white guiltWhich is a concept that serves Wall Street and imperialism it was used to break up Occupy Wall Street through progressive stacking, to cancel actually anti-imperialists by getting them labelled as racists or fascists and to give the Western powers a progressive face to the colour revolutions the intelligent agencies support.
>>715830604Minime, ego tantum soleo legere libellos ex MGH sive latinam dicatur "neolatina", quia romani ipsi re vera omnino nulla texta bona scripserunt
>>715830639Why don't you graffiti yet another "Class War not Race War" on another blank wall and see if people still "won't get it." You don't even acknowledge the existence of your fellow Marxists moving past you in order to appeal to the youth more.
>>715830639Sides of the same coin. "Trad" communism is about taking power and committing genocide via economic control, "New" communism is about taking power and committing genocide via cultural control.
>>715822714>>715830639You've been shilling this fag's book for three years
>>715830885Alright, I'll take your word for it.
>>715790041 (OP)>surprised a guy named "edward" was yapping about his incorrect understanding of hegel
Having an NPC in a video game have confidence on a piece of subject he himself learned with limited tools despite being wrong to the player is something some anons can't actually wrap their heads around in this thread.
>>715790041 (OP)It's an important facet of his character that he likes ruling the Legion but gets annoyed that all of the members of the Legion are illiterate fucking retards with no depth of philosophy or understanding. It's why Arcade can be sold as a slave to him. It gives Caesar somebody to yap at that will actually understand his shit. He was probably excited that the Courier seemed like he might be able to string together enough sentences to engage with philosophy.
>>715831798>who is vulpes inculta
>>715822714>Tankie gets mad that left-libs rightfully pointed out that the ebin Axis of Resistance is a giant grift with most of the players involved being imperialist powers in their own right
>>715832043He has a silver tongue but is he particularly literate?
>>715831017Their not Marxists their CIA funded Neo-liberals rejecting dialectical materialism and anti-imperalism is not moving past anything it's revisionism at best full on class collaboration at worst. It's a full rejection of the entire basis of Marxism in favour of liberal nonsense. The solution isn't graffiti it's exposing their betrayal and having solidarity with anti-imperialist nations such as the DPRK, Russia, China, Laos, Belarus etc. Their are plenty of parties in the west that realise this true Marxist parties that reject wokeness, troonism and Neo-liberals such as CPGB-ML and CPI.
>>715790680>work in Fallout 2>he picked the most cucked outcomes of handing the NCR literally everything instead of advocating for each settlement’s interests How can you play any Fallout and come to the conclusion that the NCR is worthwhile? They’re an imperialistic mass of corrupt parasites that provide their citizens nothing save for high tax burdens. How can you visit areas like Vault City and Redding and come to the conclusion that what they need most is a bunch of beige colored career politicians forcing their hands in their wallets?
>>715832098I mean he's extremely intelligent and talks poetically.
>>715832114Might I remind you why socialists gave up in revolutions and wanted to work within the democratic order of Western states again? This one simple fact will blow your mind.
>>715832098He's as literate as he needs to be depending on the other person he's talking to. Hence even he creeps out Lanius.
>>715832052None of them are imperialist and tankie is a woke slur like terf a term created by the pro-regime change synthetic left to attack actual left. Why do you use the woke term?
>>715832043Somebody that I doubt gives a shit about discussing politics, but more importantly is rarely at the Fort with Caesar. The Frumentarii are definitely the smartest and most educated of the Legion, because they need to be able to infiltrate and fit into other civilizations. But they're too busy infiltrating to sit around and chat with Daddy.
>>715824447>I still think there's a decent build variety in the old games (more so 2) if you don't go out of your way to make a broken as fuck agility small guns build or something completely non-functional like traps.The problem with this is that you may make a viable build in F2, but it'll still be handicapped compared to the best one. In NV There is an actual honest to god reason to wear things other than power armor, an actual honest to god reason to use guns instead of energy or vice versa, hand-to-hand instead of melee and vice versa, you can even spec entirely into explosives and it'll work in a way that other weapon classes don't (even in one on one combat explosives are vicious at rapidly crippling the entire body, something that neither guns nor energy excel at).
>3/NV have this weightlessness in everything, even gunplay. It never felt concrete to me.I've actually felt the opposite, Like in Oblivion you have this very slow very constant very floaty melee combat that feels like you're just gliding a weapon through the air and enemies around it lose HP, but when using a bumper sword or a super sledge in New Vegas not only was the speed fast enough to convince me I'm actually swinging a weapon, the way those weapon ever so slightly bump enemies (move them) really made me feel like there was impact. Especially when playing with Bloody Mess and pulverizing a skull into giblets with a super sledge. And when playing with little knives and other small nonsense they still felt pretty quick and the sound design was relatively satisfying for me. Sure, it's not perfect, but it was enough to immerse me, unlike Oblivion or most other old games.
>>715832114>anti-imperialist nations>Russia >China
>>715832292Revisionism mostly Kim Jong Il addressed this in his work "Socialism is a Science" and basically pointed out how officials in many so called communist countries drifted away from upholding actual theory and became self serving. Never Hoxha also correctly attacked the same revisionism that's he saw in such countries as Yugoslavia
>>715832909Deng Xiaoping is a revisionist but he basically saved China's economy and is the sole reason for their rise as a global power once again.
>>715832909>Hoxha also correctly attacked the same revisionism that's he saw in such countries as Yugoslavia
Caesar is big gay because he's a philosophizer of words and not of actions. He talks and talks about creating something new but anyone who looks around at what he built for more than five seconds can see he's not doing anything that hasn't been seen under the son thousands of times. He's just an asshole warlord leading a band of cultish rapists dressed up as something resplendent that they don't embody at all. Leading a cult of personality he's pretty much lost control over and is more of a hostage to than anything. He asserts rules to dominate the lives of his subjects in a misguided attempt to change their character while he himself makes use of whatever he wants to sustain his pointless life.
Lanius is way cooler because he actually believes and carries out the Philosophy of his life through action. He leads the Legion because he is Strong. The Legion rules the Wasteland because it's Strong. He endeavors to do whatever makes him, his rule, and his Legion stronger be it by arms or fearsome reputation. He despises whatever might make him or his people weak.
>>715790041 (OP)>I'm going to BLOW UP the NCR and then rule over the remaining society as Genghis Khan.>No, not like all the tribes where blowing them up completely destroyed their society and forced them to be murderous skirtboys with machetes.>No, not like all the towns I menace and tax the fuck out of, allowing my skirtboys to cut people up just for fun, offering nothing in return but 'safety' (but not from my skirtboys).>It'll be like Rome and shitWas he retarded? Forget Hegelianism, how's he gonna run NCR without any skilled leaders in the wings, without trust of the population, and with only tool in his arsenal being murder? When he takes over Vegas he literally kicks all the smart people out, kills all the local leaders and pretty much destroys the city's value as a resort/consumerism center.
>>715821985> I showed that Roman military history is immensely relivent to the Legion's worldview plus history is important to philosophy countless philosophers quote historical works and philosophical works influence philosophical viewpointsYou didn’t, you just complained about how he referenced one philosopher over others and then gave a list of people that didn’t include philosophers and you even acknowledged that half of them were irrelevant.
>Moreover classical historians were much more philosophical than modern historians making philosophical points in their works to point of being practically philosophers themselvesPost hoc bullshit you’re bringing up now because you don’t want to be wrong.
>>715830639>Isn't a thingIt is, but you fags need to say it isn’t on account that you can’t defend it.
>The likes of the Frankford school were funded by the CIASo the school and ideology that were founded decades before the CIA existed were funded by them? This is why you retards fail, you constantly make shit up to deflect away from your bullshit.
Kaizar is a closet communist and nothing about his retarded cult is remotely right wing.
>>715833947Just going to ignore all the free trade that takes place within the Legion? Caravans prefer it over the NCR due to laxer taxes and regulations.
>>715834112Communists are allowed to make use of free trade markets to boost the economy as long as they don't let the Oligarchs get out of hand like the Russians did. They literally all do it, it's just a matter of how retarded they want to let it get.
At any time Caesar can just take whatever he wants from anyone in his territory for the good of the Legion.
>>715833947The Legion is an unironic fascist government and I'm not saying that as an insult. People are way too quick to say what they don't like is fascist, but the Legion is just a definitive example of one.
>authoritarian>ultranationalist>focus on central leader>militarism>defined hierarchy>government control of economy but still has private property and capitalI think it's actually pretty cool that the writers did SOMETHING of a job giving a reason, motive, and ideology behind the fascist government rather than making them a barebones strawman. I think they did a bit too little and one of the biggest flaws with New Vegas is that there's not a lot of reason to side with the Legion, but just the fact that you can have a conversation with the fascist dictator's ideology and maybe see a reason behind his actions is more than 99% of media would do.
>>715833878It isn't a thing because it contradicts Marxism on such a fundamental level you can't create revolution by changing cultural superstructure only material conditions. It rejects the role of class, dialectical materialism and supports every act of Imperialism from the west. If it rejects every principal of Marxism then it could in way better called Marxist except by idiots who have no understanding of what Marxism is.
>So the school and ideology that were founded decades before the CIA existed were funded by them?Funded by them not founded by them retard. There's plenty of evidence to show that the CIA and the Rockefeller foundation had a huge role in funding them during the Cold War to replace Marxism with critical theory as a liberal alternative to Marxism. The founding members themselves were rich industrialists who rejected the very Marxism and attacked both the Soviet Union and China.
>>715790041 (OP)He might have given them this talk, I'd say very likely. The reason being: this talk is part of the Empire's propaganda versus the Republic. The Bull is rising and the Bear is falling, the opposing models of society Must clash, from a philosophical point of view and from a physical point of view, so justifying Caesar's aggression. The player isn't in a much special place by hearing this from a man who dresses and calls himself the Caesar.
NCR rhetoric is the opposite in one axis, yes, that ideas must be voted for, that people need representation as people, that we need normalcy, that the individual has a say and should Not be confronted like ideas, but be given instead freedom, so the opposite of a Hegelian abstract plus negative equal concrete necessary style, but a concrete(the people) plus projects equal greater union. Caesar's philosophy dresses him on a deeper level, he only sees the positive in the NCR as a hierarchical, dictatorial structure by Aradesh and Tandi, everything else being drag weight. While the NCR sees the positive in the Legion as only the resulting peace, and therefore freedom, of Legion conquered territories. NCR propaganda leads them to spread too thin, because in theory their territory is already free by definition. Tax collectors obviously take advantage of this but the cause is 80% ideological, the spread is non-confrontational compared to what the Legion does. For the Legion NCR represents the useless abstract, therefore it justifies the Legion representing the costly negative, with the promise of a concrete: Imperial Rome. For the NCR the Legion is only One of its occasional enemies, particular in its own way, and not its antithesis. Both are bold but sincere views.
>>715790041 (OP)>where characters like to talk at you, not to you.That's the pseudoscience of philosophy in general. Philosophy -- the favorite subject of schizos, manipulators, and fruitcakes.
>>715821234Yeah I really wish they did a DLC that brought you to Arizona where you could see what true Legion territory looks like and either raze it or navigate the politics (alot like Honest Hearts really). Also obviously not as good as ranger armor but I do like the centurion armor and how its made up.
>>715835261>>715834613>government control of economy but still has private property and capitalNope. The idea of a legion coin is funny but it isnt backed by anything other than Legion coming over to kill you, making it entirely useless as a tool for transaction. 'Legion Taxation' is literal unironic highway robbery, and whatever functioning societies exist within their borders have economies entirely separate from the legion. Ostensibly Legion can come over and destroy your economic enterprise, but that is not economic control, otherwise you can say that acts of nature like a tornado destroying your enterprise a fascist act of economic control.
There's no private property either, Legion proper has only 2 castes - Slaves and Legionaries. Former own nothing by definition, and latter are given no opportunity to own anything. The legion issues you goods and gear, the legion permits you spoils of war, but by order of your immediate superior you can be relieved of both.
>ultranationalistIt is a stretch to call legion a nation, otherwise almost any raider gang could be rated ultranationalist. They're simply a cult. Those within it exist on commune basis - legion soldiers don't pay coin or do quotas to eat their daily bread, and are simply killed or abused into labor if they fail to perform enough of appropriate violence. Outsiders are treated only as a source of resources. It's a very rigid organization far from nationhood.
>715836301
>It wasn't real communism
>>715836895Tornados aren't governments, you retard.
>>715833681>You didn’t, you just complained about how he referenced one philosopher over others and then gave a list of people that didn’t include philosophers and you even acknowledged that half of them were irrelevant.I said that he made the basis of his philosophy Hegal instead of Roman authors I didn't say that they were all solely philosophers this is you being a literal minded autist. Machiavelli based a lot of his philosophy on the Roman historian Titus Livy, Michel de Montaigne wrote many philosophical essays using and referring to classical historical works you don't have to base philosophically solely on philosophers.
>Post hoc bullshit you’re bringing up now because you don’t want to be wrong.No it's a fact that should be apparent to anyone who had actually read these writers which you clearly haven't.
>>715837038Neither is the legion. A bunch of skirtboys coming in, forcing you to pay up or get your head cut off, and disappearing 500 miles west to pay courier-walk-the-wasteland-fuck to shoot conscripts while they snort healing powder is not by any means taxation in support of a nation. You just got robbed. If you dont pay up and they murder you, its not government enforcing its policy, you just met another flavor of a roaming raider.
US Military arriving to a Vietnamese village to rape and pillage, then leave, is not an act of their 'governance' over you, nor did your raped and pillaged village become part of US.
>>715837028>Only gets his political views from tired memes and social media influencers because he doesn't know how to read.Also "isn't real communism" is phrase used by the woke left to justify their support for imperialism against existing Communist countries such as the DPRK.
>>715790041 (OP)He's a true politician.
Completely full of shit but confident.
>>715836423>Legion territory looks like and either raze it or navigate the politicsIt doesn't exist. The group's leader and god attends to a war camp on the legion's west-most reaches, and only entertains ideas of immediate warfare in the sector, going as far as to brief and task agents personally, even though his master spy and master general are right there next to him.
Legion recruits and resupplies by means of destroying communities, that's why you can talk Legate out of taking Hoover Dam - there is nobody in the east to reinforce the line or resupply the legion pushing west, and there's no tribes to subjugate into service past Hoover Dam, and no self-sufficient communities to very carefully tax to meet all of Legion's needs.
There's no big legion town somewhere east, where legionaries live lives, because they're all needed at the front to fight. They're just more or less self-sufficient towns of non-legion people that, at times, receive legion caravan that arrives to skim goods to cart back to the Legion, or to enslave them all if manpower is running low.
And before you bring up traders, it is in legion's best interest that all the raiders are recruited into the legion, and that towns in their rear can trade so that they continue to operate and thus be taxable.
And there's no legion politics there, as legion doesn't police the towns. They either pay or die, and the rest doesn't matter to the legion.
Just imagine Goodsprings but every month you have to give some assholes free shit or they kill you, it's the same.
>>715833878 You’re acting like Marxism is some coherent religion with immutable dogma instead of a constantly shifting ideological framework that gets rewritten every time a new regime needs to justify why it’s doing the exact opposite of what the last guy said. The Frankfurt School didn’t “replace” Marxism, it took parts of Marxist theory and retooled them for a post-industrial, post-WW2 Western context-exactly how theory evolves. Half of these people screaming about “cultural Marxism” couldn’t tell you the difference between Adorno and Rambo.
Also, if your argument hinges on CIA money tainting every idea someone ever had, then congratulations-capitalism is invalid too, since the CIA’s been propping up capitalist regimes with coups and death squads for 80 years. Porkie-funded philosophy still philosophy, cope harder.
>>715836895We know factually that Caesar's Legion has territory with civilians and workers (considered subjects of the Legion). We just only see the legionaries because we only directly interact with their military. Their non-military class is back in Arizona and the lands the army has already conquered.
>>715838643>We know factually that Caesar's Legion has territory with civilians and workers (considered subjects of the Legion)We don't actually, but its a popular headcanon within legion fanboy circles.
Legate Lanius straight up says that Legion almost failed to take Denver because there were no nearby tribes to destroy to resupply goods and manpower. He doesn't say 'Denver defenders prevented us from receiving goods from our populated centers' or 'our recruitment numbers went down because we were taking too long to win'.
The legion is all in one place, in the main camp and in the aux camps. They can project their force a certain distance back east, to towns they didn't destroy, where they can demand to be given free shit or to grab a few slaves/legionaries, but those are not 'Legion' towns or farms. They don't believe in Caesar and Caesar has no effect on their lives until he demands tribute of them.
There's no Legion Electrician, no Legion Guns Factory, no Legion Brahmin Farmer. It's either wastelanders somewhere far away, robbed now and then, or slaves as camp followers.
No Legion town where you can go to Legion bar and see Legionaries drinking Legion Whiskey after a long day of keeping the peace. All of these people are on the frontlines, and nowhere else.
>>715839295From Sawyer:
>The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.>While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people.>The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).>In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway)."
>>715832436I'm sorry anon I should've been more accurate
You're a campist, you have no actual coherent political philosophy and instead operate on the ideological praxis of being "based"
>>715840038>It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion>It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion>It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion>In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of themFrom THE ACTUAL FUCKING GAME
>And they don't *need* to send an army, your supply lines will kill you first.>[SUCCEEDED] {Derisive} You think we would march without a means of resupply? We have the Fort, we will have the Dam - other communities will fall. And we shall harvest as we move West. {With conviction} We only need move forward.>There's no communities to support you in the West - you've seen to that. >[SUCCEEDED] {Growing anger} There are many towns, many slaves... ripe for the taking as the tribes from the East were.>The settlements West are *not* self-sufficient tribes - they need NCR, and the caravans.>[SUCCEEDED] {Confused} You rely too much on the trappings of... civilization. The people of the West were once tribes - they will relearn their ways, or...>As Legate, do you really believe that, or are you taking a chance?>Hnh. {Beat} Long ago... when taking Denver, I had to face such a challenge. Many died, over many years to claim the city as ours.>{Reflective} It was the lines of food and water that nearly broke the Legion's strength... and the lack of tribals near that cursed city.>What I felt in that struggle, I felt as I saw the map of the West. The West is a trap. The bear has already been caught in it, and it is dying.He says NOTHING about
>getting more food and more soldiers from the eastbecause there's NO SUCH in the east. He literally banks the entire logistics on raiding, pillaging, enslaving and taxing NCR towns, and when he realizes that might not be an option, he straight up LEAVES. He has no alternative.
>>715790041 (OP)Caesar is a megalomaniac trying to flex his philosophy education on retarded wastelanders, it makes sense he just talks at you to get you to try to understand the greater purpose of the Legion.
>>715840461>>It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion>They're not citizens but they are subjects that live under Legion law and follow all of their rules and do what the Legion tells them and contribute to the Legion.They are OBJECTIVELY workers and civilians, which is what I claimed. They're not slaves anymore than a medieval peasant is a slave (which it isn't. A serf was the medieval slave). They work and they're not military. Workers and civilians. They also contribute to the Legion but they're not members because Legion specifically refers to the military that's enforcing the law. And that necessarily means that there are legionaries in those areas enforcing the law and ruling over it.
We also have FROM THE FUCKING GAME both Raul and Dale Barton describing the Legion's safe territory with civilian subjects that are able to live fine lives. This isn't the case of Sawyer retconning the game or describing something that doesn't exist in the game. He's giving more detail for canon info that matches the game and just isn't displayed because we never go to Legion territory. I mean, Dale Barton himself proves that the Legion has commerce.
I'm not even fond of the Legion. I think they're a bad faction and it's basically impossible to justify siding with them unless you're just playing a dickhead (because the world isn't harsh enough to justify their bullshit). But you're just ignoring objective facts to push the idea that they're a Mad Max army when they aren't.
>open troonout new vegas thread
>it's all autists spamming word salad novel-posts at each other about muh politics and muh lore
>close troonout new vegas thread and boot up stalker call of pripyat instead
Much better.
>>715841071SoC > Pripyat
You can't prove me wrong
>>715840145No, I am anti-imperalist and Juche Marxist nothing I have said contradicts that. In fact all I have said has been along an anti-imperalist and Marxist line.
>>715838643The legion does not have a 'non-military' class aside from slaves. There are just towns that pay tribute or else they get wiped out
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>>715841184bad b8 but it made me give a (you) so I rate it 8/8
>>715841243>Juche Marxist nothing I have said contradicts thatWhat the FUCK are you doing??? ,I've already reported you to the relevant authorities. I bet you're not even using Red Star right now you capitalist traitor. You think we don't know?
>>715790041 (OP)A dictator liking the sound of his own voice seems pretty normal to me.
>>715841352>There are just towns that pay tribute or else they get wiped outEntire cities of towns paying taxes does not make them either slaves or part of the military unless you think all modern governments are made up slaves and soldiers
>>715841372Not b8, I unironically like the way anomalies work in SoC better than in Pripyat and I think the jank and charm of SoC is something special. I like it better than Pripyat, but theyre both good games
>>715813216Except that's actually the point. Edward Swallow is a caricature of idiots who romanticize Rome based on long-forgotten myths rather than the direct source of history.
Case in point, Swallow's entire worldview is based on Edward Gibbon's book on The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. A book that has been discredited by historians for containing mounds of bullshit and myths about how Rome functioned. The only primary source we know Swallow has read is Julius Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico. But that's only really the bare fucking minimum of Roman historical primary sources, as you yourself demonstrated. The bulk of Swallow's entire worldview is based moreso on the Enlightenment era secondary sources he has consumed (Gibbon, Hegal, etc) rather than the primary sources. It's also because finding Secondary Sources in the post-apocalypse is arguably far easier than primary because most secondary sources tend to be pop-history in the first place and thus more easily consumed by the masses.
Either way he's a reflection of the Enlightenment era European scholars completely and fundamentally misunderstanding the past, which coincidentally, misunderstanding the past is a running theme in Fallout New Vegas.
So I don't think it's an accident that Caesar doesn't quote from primary sources, he doesn't quote from them because his sources are mostly secondary and as such he fundamentally does not understand Roman history.
>>715841352>they don't have a non-military class except these non-slave, non-military workers that pay them taxes/tribute, operate under their laws, obey their soldiers, are subject to their rule, live in their territories, and are protected by their military
>>715841521So you're saying that these towns, the people in them are citizens of legion?
>>715840985>They are OBJECTIVELY workers and civilians, which is what I claimedNo, you claimed they're Legion's workers and civilians, subjects of the legion. They are not. Legion is simply capable of reaching back and taking shit from them and they cant resist, but they're not culturally legion and they work for their own self-benefit until a rare legion request arrives, meaning taxation. They're also majorly irrelevant to Legion's war machine, as Legate Lanius expects to run his entire invasion of NCR off of looting.
>And that necessarily means that there are legionaries in those areas enforcing the law and ruling over it.It doesn't, actually. All that's required is to get down there and get the taxes, or kill people who don't pay taxes or get in the way of taxes. Legion doesn't have the people to run the towns in any smart way, and 'enforcing the law' for the Legion is a quick way to kill everyone who'd make the settlement worthwhile - what're you gonna do if you kill all the farmers over 'law'? Just raze the town and enslave everyone? Very wasteful.
In addition, any idiots who stay in bumfuck nowhere 'enforcing the law' are not taking the Hoover Dam, and Caesar himself is at the Hoover Dam, not in any sort of 'other town', so what're you hoping for?
>We also have FROM THE FUCKING GAME both Raul and Dale Barton describing the Legion's safe territory with civilian subjects that are able to live fine lives.They don't say the Legion governor organized a great ass legion bar where legionaries can unwind after a long day of Police work. They simply say Legion came over and killed all the raiders and made people pay taxes, then moved on to take Hoover Dam.
>This isn't the case of Sawyer retconning the gameIt's the case of you and others imagining that Legion actually spends time and manpower to micromanage these settlements. Not really, it just taxes them. There's no Legion Governor directing day-to-day of any town. And Lanius doesn't bank on them.
>>715822714>This was all exposed by Caleb MaupinYou mean the sex pest that was outed for grooming women
>>715841759I mean we literally don't know , they could be tributes which are not slaves or soldiers but just protectorates of the empire that pay tithes or citizens
There's nothing to imply that CL is nothing but soldiers and slaves, you're just basing that off the Fort which is literally a giant military camp
>>715841881We do know. They are not considered citizens of the legion as the legion has no citizens.
>>715841881>There's nothing to imply that CL is nothing but soldiers and slavesJust this entire quote from Lanius who expects to run his invasion of the Legion's greatest foe exclusively on looting, with no mention of any civilian class carting him bread and brahmin meat. When you tell him it wouldn't work, he LEAVES. He has NO alternative. There's no super rear echelon nation society that can feed Legion's army or give them more soldiers.
I repeat, Legate Lanius, grand strategist of Caesar, second in command of his ONLY army, Caesar's successor in case he fucking dies, outright states the entire plan hinges on NCR being robbable and enslaveable, not on any sort of ability of Legion civilians to support them. And if you tell them NCR isnt very robbable, he LEAVES. He up and LEAVES, he doesn't even pause to kill your ass.
>>715840461
>>715790041 (OP)He has spies in the mojave and knows about the courier.
>>715815648Where did he get the canteen? Vault 13 was destroyed decades ago
>>715842179Also to add onto this, this a conscious decision by ceasar becuase his plan is to synthesise the legion and the NCR, a nation which already has a civilian government
>>715841867>Believing cancel cultureI bet you believe all the claims about ProJared being a pedo, the bullshit in the Change the Channel document and the new too witch hunting as well.
>>715841836>subjects of the legion.I don't know what the fuck you would consider somebody that pays taxes/tribute, operates under your rules, obeys what you tell them, lives in your territory, and benefits from your protection OTHER than a subject. That's what they fucking are.
>Legion doesn't have the people to run the towns in any smart wayWe know most of the Legion are illiterate retard tribals, but we also have shit like the bill of sale for Boone's wife showing that there is officers of commerce (identified as a consul, which is a Roman political position). There is absolutely a sense of management in the Legion. We don't know enough to say they do, for sure, micromanage these settlements or not, or if they leave troops stationed to fend off raiders and hold their territory.
What we do know, both from dialogue and from what Sawyer said regarding facts in the game, is that the Legion has people that pay them taxes and obey their laws. They're not soldiers and they're not slaves. They might not be members of the Legion, because it's a purely military force, but they are subjects of it. Which is what I was originally fucking talking about.
>>715842179Just because their subjects are unable to support the incredibly long and difficult supply chain of such a massive military does not mean that those subjects just don't fucking exist. Who the fuck are the caravans selling to when they go to Arizona other than people in Legion territory? The NCR is also seeing supply chain issues (which is what the criticism of Lanius is about) because those cities and settlements to the west aren't self-sufficient. Do they no longer have workers, laborers, and citizens because they're also seeing scarcity?
>>715842510>identified as a consul, which is a Roman political positionNo assumptions can be made on this, the legion simply pays lip service to ancient rome, most of its 'romanisms' are aesthetic
>>715793824>no tradeThere is a caravan at the camp that talks about trade in legion territory
>no cultivation, no industry>"Water and power flow consistently">"Food is adequate "They have a currency. They trade.
>>715842862Yeah, I was just mentioning it as a side thing to the fact that there is a commerce officer of an administrative structure for dealing with slavery affairs. One that wrote up a bill of sale to a non-Legion civilian. There is clearly structure, organization, administration, and hierarchy to the Legion beyond military grunts and their commanders. We even know, from Boone's dialogue, that Caesar has an entire line of succession figured out for if he dies.
>>715842064Source?
>>715842179>Autist who doesn't understand Lanius' bravado thinks he's being literal You hate to see it. Yes, the Legion has conquered entire states and has supplylines as implied by their ability to move all of their veteran forces from around their territory westward with a constant supply of higher grade weaponry
But whatever, this is a NV thread and you're literal, actual autism must be accepted for since you can't understand Lanius' saying "there's no other option" as being anything else but literal. The amount of women who have probably flirted with you and you had no idea must be immense , then again you're arguing about NV lore maybe you haven't even seen a woman in years
>>715790041 (OP)he is not a random guy in the wasteland by this point in the game. he is fairly well known by being the first person to go inside the luck38 in years.
NEWFAGGOT
>>715843049> Scroll a few posts its a quote from avellone
>>715843001I really don't understand how people miss the fact that the Legion is clearly a very hierarchical and organized society. Like, my dude, do you think some random tribal retards could infiltrate the NCR military, become officers and then engage in a complex war of industrial sabotage from the inside using C4 to hit critical infrastructure? Does that seem like a bunch of ooga booga spear chuckers to you?
>>715843170Yeah I'm not reading this entire hyper autism thread and I'm sure whatever quote you dredged up is a nothingburger since Avellone wasn't that only writer for the game anyways
>>715841071>>open troonout new vegas thread>>it's all autists spamming word salad novel-posts at each other about muh politics and muh lore>>close troonout new vegas thread and boot up stalker call of pripyat instead>Much better.
>>715843201The frumentarii are clearly a step above the rank and file this is a very dishonest argument
>>715843265Ok fag
>>715842510>operates under your rulesThey don't, they live by their own rules. They can do all the things forbidden to legionaries.
>obeys what you tell themOut of fear of unreasonable murder
>lives in your territoryThey live in their own territory. Legion can just come over and murder people there.
>benefits from your protectionThey don't, these settlements existed prior to Legion arriving just fine, without all the murders and robberies and enslavements. Legion doesn't invest anything in them, its purely back to back robbery under threat of violence.
>I don't know what the fuck you would consider somebody OTHER than a subjectA terrorized victim of a raider enterprise.
Legion is nowhere close to a nation, and it has zero interest in most of its 'territories' once they kill all the tribals there and steal their stuff. They don't even seem to care much for land, only certain landmarks of value.
>>715842770>Who the fuck are the caravans selling to when they go to Arizona other than people in Legion territory?People in Legion territory do not equal subjects of the legion, citizens of the legion. It could just be a pass-through territory where you arent likely to get shot, but not likely to score cash either.
>The NCR is also seeing supply chain issuesThey don't, actually.
>Which is what the criticism of Lanius is aboutIt isnt, truly. NCR as a nation is capable of specializing its settlements. An entire settlement of nothing but Brahmin farmers can have the best guns and sip the best nuka cola because of trade. They sell brahmin shit, they get money, they use money to buy stuff from some other gun town and cola town. NCR towns are not self-sufficient, but NCR is entirely self-sufficient.
But this doesn't work if you're a pillaging army that comes over and takes the Brahmin town. Now you have a shitload of brahmin stuff, but NCR isnt carting in any guns or water for you to peruse until you go and capture an entirely separate water town and gun town.
>>715843265The quote he's referring to is latching onto Sawyer saying
>The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.While ignoring that he is REFERRING TO THEM AS CIVILIANS and he goes on to describe how they fit all of the criteria of subjects of the Legion. They simply aren't "citizens" of it because the Legion is the military aspect and only has soldiers as its members. I assume it's confusion between the term "civilian", "citizen", and "subject."
>>715843049>Bro its just bravado! You're an autist, you dont understand!>They have supply lines>Courier: You have no supply lines>Lanius: OH SHIT EVERYONE RETREAT NOW>Ending slides beginWhy're you a literal imbecile?
>>715843504Yes the legion is a purely military construct, this has been my point all along.
>>715843394>They don't, they live by their own rules. They can do all the things forbidden to legionaries.Yes, because they're not legionaries. They follow the laws the Legion puts over them, though.
>Out of fear of unreasonable murderLiterally all laws from any government are enforced by threat of violence. That's how law works. If you disobey the law right now, you'll be arrested. If you resist arrest, you'll be attacked and potentially killed depending on severity. Governments receive their authority through potential of violence and force, either to protect or threaten people.
>They live in their own territory. Legion can just come over and murder people there.Sawyer explicitly described it as Legion territory and said they were people living in that Legion territory.
>A terrorized victim of a raider enterprise.You're just saying you dislike the Legion. Which is fair, but that doesn't mean they aren't a government with subjects.
>>715843001All of this falls apart the second you realize that Legion paid a bunch of money to someone who did not own that person, and really had no control over her, and she wasn't selling herself through the middlewoman either.
So Legion just came over to Nipton, paid an assload to some random lady, and then still had to kidnap the slave violently and in secret.
So that anon is right, it is all just for show.
>>715843383The frumentarii are clearly a byproduct of them conquering more civilized and advanced societies and integrating them into the legion like the mongols integrating advanced Chinese siege craft into their empire. Which is what lead to the utter decimation of the Khwarazmian Empire because they just assumed that thr mongols were nothing but disorganized tribal retards who had no concept of strategy leading to one of the worst genocides in medieval history.
Yes, the Legion is clearly far more organized and advanced than just a bunch of spear chuckers
>>715843504Lmao that's hilarious , so the other anon just can't comprehend what a civilian is then. Amazing
>>715842468So wear does having a spanking fetish fit into this whole Marxist Juche thing?
https://archive.org/details/caleb-maupins-former-comrades-speak-out-his-abuses-must-stop_202301/mode/1up
All of this is really just showing off how bad FNV's writing truly is when you break it down. Like, yeah, FO3's story was dogshit, but at least it didn't pretend that it wasn't.
>>715843557>Courier: You have no supply linesWith speech 100 talking to a tribal moron who doesn't understand the full extent of the Legion like Caesar did, duh. Yes they have supply lines, or does the Legion just start the game with thermic lances, C4, and marksman carbines lmao
>>715843673No, you've been vehemently arguing that they're a military that doesn't have subjects despite there being mounds of evidence that they objectively do. Nobody has disagreed that the Legion itself is a military faction that's just soldiers. But they have a worker/civilian class paying taxes and tribute to them. There is dialogue in-game and from the writers confirming this without any lack of clarity. It's explicitly stated.
Just because they can't support Lanius's psychotic rampage doesn't mean they don't exist.
>>715843557The Courier says their supply lines are too weak. Implying they exist but aren't fit to support the Legion's mass. Lanius mentions that the supply lines were also too weak at Denver. Not that they don't exist.
>>And they don't *need* to send an army, your supply lines will kill you first.>>{Reflective} It was the lines of food and water that nearly broke the Legion's strength... and the lack of tribals near that cursed city.
>>715843828I am saying you have IQ of a retard if you believe that behavior of a common mugger adds up to some sort of governmental operation.
The laws are followed not because a cop will come over and shoot you in the head, but because it benefits you personally, and the community itself. Nobody wants to live next to a bunch of murdering and thieving scumbags. That's why in a functioning society there aren't just checklists of shit to be murdered for, but courts and rights. And it is explicitly said that Legion issues no rights or freedoms and freely beheads people over slights.
The taxes you pay are also for the amenities of your community, of which Legion provides none, both because they dont want to, and because they can't.
It's no nation.
The Legion would not be minting a currency if it didn't have a civilian or merchant population.
/thread
>>715844143>the amenities of your community, of which Legion provides noneAside from ample food and water and electricity and honest officials and the safest roads in the wasteland.
>>715843921Not exactly, the legions top frumentarii, vulpes, is originally from a tribe in utah. It is more indicitive of ceasar deliberately keeping most of his men brainwashed and indoctrinated so they dont start asking too many questions
>>715844143>The laws are followed not because a cop will come over and shoot you in the head, but because it benefits you personally, and the community itselfThat's how it works in a high-trust society and a community that works together for their greater good. But that doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, at the bottom line, ALL governments get their authority from violence or threat of violence. That is what the power of government is founded on. The first kings became king because they were the ones that would protect everybody else from lions.
Just because the Legion is a shitty and brutal government doesn't mean it's NOT a government. Just because they rule some people with an iron fist does not mean those people are not their subjects. Again, your argument just boils down to not liking the Legion so you think their government doesn't count as a government. Which is ridiculous.
>The taxes you pay are also for the amenities of your community, of which Legion provides none, both because they dont want to, and because they can't.>>Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safeThat's also besides the point that taxes can also just be tribute in exchange for killing the fucking raiders.
>>715844062>With speech 100Barter 100
>a tribal moron who doesn't understand the full extent of the Legion like Caesar did>Legate Lanius, Caesar's successor to the throne>He LITERALLY provides a past experience of Legion's troubles with logistics almost resulting in defeat.>Caesar would have a moron as his LegateIsn't it funny how legion defenders literally have to resort to calling legion's top members retards for their idealized headcanon to align with reality.
>>715844398>Isn't it funny how legion defendersNobody is defending the Legion. We're arguing the canon facts about the Legion the game presents (which doesn't make them any better as an option).
You have somebody calling the Legate a fucking retard and you still think he's a defender.
>>715844217No, that's what legion TAKES. These communities are spared murder specifically because they're self-sufficient (unlike NCR communities), and thus can be taxed. They explicitly exist before Legion comes over, and they're explicitly spared for their capacity to provide all that to themselves, and to the legion at large.
Legion is not taxing them with one hand to feed the starving with the other. At best all the murdered raiders no longer throw dynamite at the town, knocking electricity out.
>>715844271True but I'm assuming the spies are taught how to blend into old worlder societies from the places the Legion has conquered and made tributes, and even just doing that takes a level of sophistication and organization which is the only way to make advanced sabotage and spying ops possible. Everyone in the Legion is brainwashed obviously
>>715844386To be fair, alot of this comes down to poor writing, water and power flowing consistently doesnt mean its the legion building and/or maintaining the necessary infrastructure for this to happen. Its very ambigious but to me, at least, from what we have seen of the legion they dont seem much interested in the governing of conquered land.
Especially if we take into the account that the legion itself is composed almost entirely of assimilated tribals
>>715844030As much as ProJared's private sexing has to do with his game reviews aka nothing.
Caleb Maupin isn't perfect he says a lot things that are very right and others things that are completely retarded but whatever bizarre fetishes he has are pretty much irrelevant from that.
You're doing the typical breadtube rules for radicals thing of just ridiculing him rather than engaging with his arguments because ridicule and cancelling are asier than discussion and are effective methods to tear someone down.
>>715844398>legion defendersJust because I don't think the Legion are spear chucking retards doesn't mean I defend the Legion lmao. I would literally rather die than live under the Legion to any degree
>Caesar would have a moron as legate Yeah, because he's great at battle not logistics. A lot of actual emperors had to balance their personalities with other people more learned in other fields, it's how they curated the next emperors a lot of times
>>715838626No I’m pointing out what is in fact a very real ideology which you were openly wrong about and most likely lying about.
>The Frankfurt School didn’t “replace” MarxismNo one said this, stop making strawmen up. If you can’t argue then don’t, going into delusions won’t change that fact.
>Also, if your argument hinges on CIA money tainting every idea someone ever hadNo that’s something that you’re making up. I was pointing out how you were blaming them for something that was created before the inception of the organization and thus have no idea what you’re talking about.
>>715844573True, this is a very likely scenario. Its a shame the legion didnt get more screentime becuase this is a very interesting aspect of legion culture
>>715844528Well its you who has to invent a nonsensical explanation of Legion actually being a nation with towns and shit where people love Caesar and are ready to supply his war effort unconditionally and fully, its just that his retarded ass Legate doesnt know about it and botches the entire operation over it.
Instead of, you know, him just knowing that Legion doesnt have anything if he cant pillage NCR on his way to victory.
>>715844781>We forgot to tell our legate that he actually has all the needed supplies to wage this war.>You know, as a joke.>Oh fuck now he's retreating from battle because he thinks he doesnt have supplies to wage the campaignNow both Lanius and Caesar are fucking stupid, what's the point of this?
>>715837228>I said that he made the basis of his philosophy Hegal instead of Roman authors I didn't say that they were all solely philosophersSo in regards to philosophical thought you listed a bunch of people but didn’t mean for them to be exclusively philosophers? Why do you have to lie like this? The mother fucker even admits he using aesthetics and not going into the actual ideas.
>this is you being a literal minded autistNo it’s me calling out your bullshit while you attempt to weasel your way out and hope that if you rely on technicality that you won’t be wrong.
>No it's a fact that should be apparent to anyone who had actually read these writers which you clearly haven'tYou seem to have a severe disconnect on what is being argued here. Or more likely you’re being purposely dishonest in hopes you don’t lose an internet argument.
>>715844386>You just dont like the LegionAll I do is point out actual direct flaws of the Legion as they're provided. If these flaws did not exist, I might've liked Legion, but the crux of the issue is that these flaws disqualify it from being government because Legion doesn't govern.
And all the various headcanons and attempts to interpret the game are about elevating Legion by displaying them as capable of governance of their 'subjects'.
And the Legion just doesn't do it. Tribals are slain, communities that produce something are taxed, and communities that don't (like NCR ones) are also wiped out and enslaved.
You say 'but muh raiders', but its obvious these communities existed before Legion and were quite fine despite the raiders.
You say 'muh power' and 'muh food' and 'muh water', and I remind you that Legion taxes them to fight a war to steal NCR's civilian population, not so that they may feed the poor settlers they just 'subjugated', and that the communities likely already fed and powered themselves just fine.
You say 'they have a system of dealing with slaves', and I have to remind you that they paid the money and issued a writ to some random nobody with no rights to said 'slave', and then had to ninja the slave out of town anyway.
So no, I don't dislike the legion and thus deny them nationhood, I just deny them nationhood because they do not pursue it, or do anything to have it.
>>715790041 (OP)A prerequisite for meeting him is getting into the Lucky 38 and meeting with House so it makes sense he'd want you around, if only for the espionage potential. Him giving you his spiel is just a way to grease the wheels. Make conversation.
>>715844892This is my thought on the matter, if the legion loses at the dam they're pretty much fucked because they dont have the apparatus of a state behind them.
If ceasar, lanius, vulpes etc. get killed as well as their army being shattered, thats pretty much all the top brass and most of the manpower gone, what is left of the legion at the point? Who is there to impose its will on the conquered lands? Will the brutalised settlements across arizona and new mexico not simply revert to their old ways?
Where as the NCR, being a state, can survive a loss in the mojave, even if their president gets assasinated. There would be alot of turmoil sure but in the end they would elect someone else and carry on
>>715844398>have character that is portrayed as a competent fighter and nothing else>is basically just a pawn that Caesar sends in to wipe shit out>him not understanding logistics is somehow out of characterSo you didn’t play the game? Because it’s in character with everything everyone has said about Lanius, he’s not a thinker, he’s not a tactician, he’s a hammer. He’s the guy you sent in to kill and terrify. Whether it’s the enemy or your own men.
>>715808070a 7th grade education is totally unattainable in the wasteland with Followers of the Apocalypse in every other town eh?
>>715845004>We forgot to tell our legate*Our legate is a warrior at heart and understands battle strategy well but not the logistics that go into it
Happened a lot in history desu
>>715845010>So in regards to philosophical thought you listed a bunch of people but didn’t mean for them to be exclusively philosophers?Yes because as mentioned several times before philosophers do not use the works of other philosophers exclusively
>No it’s me calling out your bullshit while you attempt to weasel your way out and hope that if you rely on technicality that you won’t be wrong.I am trying to weasel my way out of anything you autistic zoomtard your the one making an entire argument out of splitting hairs
>Or more likely you’re being purposely dishonest in hopes you don’t lose an internet argument.I couldn't give a shit about 'losing' an internet argument let alone one as pointless as this but at the same time I do have to clarify my position which you seem to completely misrepresent.
>>715808070I find it more retarded that Arcade is calling a group with no national identity fascist. Like he just saw a bunch of authoritarians larping as romans and immediately went with that.
>>715844858Seriously, the Legion are such an undercooked faction unless you go out of your way to look into them. When I first played I did believe they were just spear chucking savages and raiders because of the interaction with Vulpes we get early game, wasn't really until interacting with that merchant at the Fort and talking with Caesar that there's even a hint they're anything else but that
>>715845717Arcade Ganon is Baseder's donut steel self insert so it's his official position as well
>>715845717Well clearly Arcade is projecting since, you know, he was born into an actually semi fascist society
>>715845750For sure, and for the most part they are spear chucking ooga boogas but thats a deliberate decision by ceasar, which in itself is a very interesting concept and i wish we had more interactions with the legion to explore it more
>>715845678>Yes because as mentioned several times before philosophers do not use the works of other philosophers exclusivelyBut again this is about the philosophy of the legion and not anything else, and you’re trying to say that a guy that is using Rome as an aesthetic should be using other people and not philosophers when it’s exclusively about philosophy.
>I am trying to weasel my way out of anything you autistic zoomtard Nice slip retard. Maybe next time don’t say stupid shit about a faction that is again basing what it is off of aesthetic.
>I couldn't give a shit about 'losing' an internet argument let alone one as pointlessAppealing to triviality, if you actually thought that you wouldn’t have engaged, wouldn’t have replied, and would not have continued to do so. How about you put your money where your mouth is and fuck off if this is all pointless.
>but at the same time I do have to clarify my positionWhy by your own admission this is “pointless” you doing that only matters if it’s not.
>which you seem to completely misrepresentMore like I see through you and you have to cope and say I’m wrong while not being able to really argue or address what I’m saying.
>>715812293If you work with the followers enough and talk with them they'll push you to make an independent Vegas, basically setting you up to be Caesar 2.0
>>715845640>"Listen, Lanius. I'm Caesar, you trust me, I lead you to victory, I wield you like my finest hammer.">"We have all the food, manpower, and all such stuff, dont worry about it, just kill those guys and it'll be fine.">...>"I'm aborting the slaying of all those profligates, and retreating from the most important battle of the decade because one dude told me we actually dont have shit.">"I mean, I'm the Hammer of Caesar etc, and he told me all the logistics are gooood, and just a few years ago I was having a great time at a Legion Bar in a Legion Town sipping Legion Whiskey, but now I am sort of doubting it."Yep, I think you actually are trying to portray both of them as fucking imbeciles, Lanius and Caesar.
If Caesar is alive, Lanius bets his life and honor on this decision being right, and goes against Caesar's order. He returns to camp and tells Caesar they're not ready to fight NCR because of logistics, and Caesar is thus retarded for having insubordinate moron in control of his army, and has to now execute Lanius and find someone stronger and more obedient.
Not to mention this is entirely uncharacteristic of Lanius, victor of many wars Legion had waged.
>>715790041 (OP)Idk I just kill all of these faggots since they are the absolute gayest thing I've ever seen in post-apocalyptic fiction and I need to eradicate them from the game in order to enjoy the rest of it.
>>715846203It takes 100 skill checks to convince him of this meaning it's supposed to be an essentially impossible task that the devs put in the game since it's fun to play RPG's that way, you're just doubling on anything you can argue because you can't take an L
The Legion are more than just tribal retards with no hierarchy , government, or ability for organization , get over it lmao. What's ironic is that Caesar says the same dumbass thing about the NCR as you're arguing he's guilty and they're both incorrect opinions
>>715844687>but whatever bizarre fetishes he has are pretty much irrelevant from that.It kinda does when you LARP as trad Christian Socialist while getting paddled by a tranny behind closed doors
>>715846203For what you’re describing to happen a list of criteria have been met
>all of the legions plans have been foiled in the Mojave>the NCR has regrouped and reorganized >Caesar is most likely dead>the attack on the dam has been more or less repelled>and an agent of the NCR is in the camp with forces coming in soonAnd even after all that it takes the max skill in either barter or speech, and even then, you can still fuck it up. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Do you think that it’s just some casual thing because you saw some meme? This happens as the culmination of many actions and deeds.
>>715845473It really does show the difference between NCR and Legion. The entire Vegas thing is ran by a general and a diplomat, the president only attends once to increase the morale. The only truly top brass man on site is Chief Hanlon, but even he already prepared to step down.
If Legion crushes these guys, there's an entire separate contingent of general and diplomat waiting for them deeper in NCR territory. Meanwhile if NCR wins, they get a chance to eliminate all of Legion's top brass.
Why so? Because NCR has to manage their own nation, and this is just an expedition. For Legion, in that fort, is their entire group, the one that matters.
>>715846042>But again this is about the philosophy of the legion and not anything else, and you’re trying to say that a guy that is using Rome as an aesthetic should be using other people and not philosophers when it’s exclusively about philosophy.Except philosophers used countless authors who are not philosophers to build their philosophy for which I have given countless exampleswhich you ignored.
Plus I gave several examples that show that it's not just asthenic and actually recreates some aspects of Roman societal structure
>>715829081
>>715846532>Essentially impossible taskDid you play the game? It is more than possible to arrive to Lanius with multiple skills at 100, without even trying, because "Barter 100" is not "100% chance to fail" its "Your character really knows this skill".
So no, Barter 100 is not "Impossible Barter", your character is just a really good trader, top of the line dude.
>>715846532But the legion quite literally is not a government, ceasars whole plan is to merge (not sure if thats the right word) his legion into the NCR and absorb its pre existing power structures, he isnt building a state to rival the NCR.
>>715846669>Except philosophers used countless authors who are not philosophers to build their philosophyOkay but again, this is not about philosophers, but someone that is using philosophers. Caesar is not a philosopher, he is not thinking about heady bullshit, he is using what he thinks is going to work. And again it’s all aesthetics, he’s not going into the actual meaning of this shit he’s using it as a base. You seem to fundamentally not understand how the legion actually works. It is to Rome what the NCR is to the U.S. it is a crude mimicry done by people that just saw “hey it was great” while ignoring the downsides.
>>715846579Actually, the barter skill check line requires none of that.
It is entirely possible to do a Yes Man playthrough, fail all the ops against Legion but weaken the NCR still, and then run Lanius through the dialogue tree because you're facing him in all endings except Legion's.
There's zero checks or requirements to succeed at it other than having 100 Barter.
>>715846562His whole christcuck thing is immensely retarded I will admit that. He'll make some very good arguments politically but then later undermine it by going full evangelical retard.
>>715846595An interesting dichotomy between the NCR and the Legion is the varying level of complexity between them. The NCR has layers of bullshit going on that makes getting things done and actually reform a nightmare whereas the legion of has been able to get shit done since it’s more or less just one guy calling the shots with everyone that disobeys him getting killed. But a problem arises in that when Caesar falls so does everything else, it’s all centered around him. This is as you say where the NCR has a leg up since their is always someone else and systems to all them to be replaced.
>>715846595Exactly, the only argument against this is when you assasinate ceasar with boone and he tells you that the legion has a whole line of succesors, which i really hate. From a meta point of viee this is just a way to rationalise to the player why you still have to fight the legion even if their god king is dead.
In game, we have to take boones word for it as his specific role in the army was whacking officers, which really annoys me becuase it flies in the face of everything we know about the legion.
I rationalise it as, just becuase they have these contigencys set up doesnt mean they are actually going to be able to follow through on it, especially if the legion loses at the dam
>>715846902So you’re going to ignore everything I said because of the cop out failsafe ending? Okay, Caesar is still going to die from the tumor and you still have the Mojave at the end. And the NCR will be forced to look inward and reform from their defeat in the Mojave.
>checks or requirements to succeed at it other than having 100 BarterThere is the trap dialogue that you’re ignoring.
>>715846737>your character is just a really good trader, top of the line dude.An impossibly good trader , anon. Getting way with ridiculous shit is the point of having end game character specs , you are the only person among tens of millions who could've convinced Lanius' to let go of invading California because of "supply lines" lmao
>>715847225Caesar doesn't die from his tumor before the battle for Hoover Dam. I didn't ignore other parts of your post, I outright said that they're WRONG. You imagined anything hinges on those events to pass, when in fact it doesn't.
>>715846749>ceasars whole plan is to merge (not sure if thats the right word)Not really, synthesis isn't really a merger it's an entirely new entity altogether from the thesis and antithesis. CL is a government and has the relevant hierarchies and authority of an organized state. The point of the Hegelian Dialectic in this case is Caeser believing that war between CL and the NCR will create a new better culture for both sides regardless of who "wins"
>>715847259100 Barter is not end game, you can have that shit by level 8 or so. I know /v/ doesn't play vidya but come on. Many checks in the game call for high levels of Barter.
>>715847361>Caesar doesn't die from his tumor before the battle for Hoover DamNever said he would, just said it would happen. And you know that so stop trying to latch onto side shit.
>I didn't ignore other parts of your post, I outright said that they're WRONGThey’re not given that they’re things that happen will happen if you side with the NCR but you couldn’t argue that so instead had to find a way out. And now that that has failed you have to ignore it in hopes you can argue semantics to get by.
>>715847504Uhh... You do realize that the game has 4 distinct paths of NCR, Legion, House and Yes Man? You can fuck up things in 3 out of 4 playthroughs and still send Legate packing with Barter 100. You simply dont get that option in Legion playthrough because you dont fight him.
You can complete victorious NCR playthrough despite getting the president killed for example.
>>715847504>And now that that has failed you have to ignore it in hopes you can argue semantics to get by.Actually, I just pointed out the fact that you're bullshitting, and you keep bullshitting.
There's no requirement of any quest, game state or anything to send Legate away with Barter 100. The rest is just you bitching over the fact that your Legion headcanon doesn't align with reality.
>>715847392Yeah thats it a synthesis, but the legion is essentialy a tool to bring that about, its not really a government, its simply an army, it has no constitution, no codified laws or legal system, nor means of governance.
Its a roaming horde that absorbs tribal peoples and extracts tribute from civilised settlements to fuel it toward its end goal
>>715847606We started this talking about confrontation with the NCR, and when you couldn’t argue that you changed to talking about the Yesman path. And after I addressed that you couldn’t argue it and went for semantics. And now that that has been called out you’re just deflecting to something completely different because you know you can’t actually address what I said about it here
>>715847225. Why do you need to do this? Why do you have to turn everything into a retarded battle of attrition when you fail? Do you think that that will make you right? No of course not it’s just petulant spite.
>FALLOUT IS DEAD!!! FALLOUT IS DEAD!! WHO CARES?!?
As you can see from this thread there is still a very active and living fanbase for a very active living franchise, so Here's the Correct way to view the Fallout series now:
>Fallout 1
>Fallout 2
>Fallout New Vegas
>meh spinoff
>meh spinoff
>meh MMO spinoff
>meh TV show with some lore discrepancies that will later be retconned, the NCR is in fact alive and will return according to leaks, shady sands will be rebuilt, entire story can be ignored
It is neither the end of the world figuratively or literally. As long as the fandom enjoys the series and appreciates New Vegas, Fallout is not "dead" and belongs to the people.
>>715847898>We started this talking about confrontation with the NCRUhhh, no. No such. Try again.
>>715848092So I was right and not only can you not argue but you can’t even address the whole post. Why are you even replying? Did I bruise your ego and now you feel the need to just slowly fall apart while hoping you can save face?
>>715847986You mean appreciates Chadout 3 there is nothing to appreciate in Troonout Neo Vagina unless you think that antifa propaganda is something to be admired.
>>715848184Why do you have to repeat again and again that
>I'm right>You lost>Your ego is bruised>You must save faceYou seem to be projecting lmao.
you will never be a woman by the way.
>>715848229I just want you to know I think your posts are hysterical and I like seeing them trigger the FNV fans and I unironically love Fallout 3.
>>715848229The fun part about these posts is that this brown retard thinks adding a 1 to the file name will hide his bullshit.
https://arch.b4k.dev/_/search/filename/1627591105766.png%20/
>>715848229>Troonout Neo Vaginakek it do be like dat tho
Is this the right thread for this? Because this is the future of Fallout btw
>>715848310>gave him a chance to argue properly >instead shits his pants and starts crying about trannies to cope>brings up projection out of nowhere>strawman as wellYou’ve made this too easy. Enjoy your temper tantrum faggot. Oh and you’re still brown.
>>715848486Owned, libtard.
You could argue that ceasar is the ultimate ncr loyalist
>>715846912>He'll make some very good arguments politically>Now spanking isn't just my deep dark personal secret, it's America's deep dark secret
>>715829081Caesar is a pseud and a larper.
>>715848535>brings up politics for no reasonAre you just hoping you can find something, brownoid?
>>715848601Caesar is literally anon and the NCR is jannie. He created a huge tribal army, that controls nearly 4 states without a GECK, Chosen One/Vault Dweller saviors, and BoS assistance, with only a Mormon and a doctor. Then, he makes the NCR work their asses off by harassing them for years
>>715848958He's so loyal he is willing to spend decades amassing a massive force to punch the NCR in the face over and over until they fix their shit
>>715848663Again you are arguing dishonesty you have taken one immensely retarded thing he said and used that to dismiss everything else
This is a typical breadtube and rules for radicals argument based on radical rather than engagement
>>715848958>Caesar is literally anon>Makes men wear skirts and talk down to womenHe might just be.
>>715849264>Hmmm... Borger King...
question
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>>715790041 (OP)>relatedlyrelated to what?
>>715820503It wasn't like that before Shemale Vegays indoctrinated the most of the fandom into becoming woke fags.
Chadout 3 was inspiring nerds to make badass content like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgyUnir31Ks
instead of boring video essays
>>715849719You just outed yourself as a breadtube fag that's the quote they use to mock because they have no real rebuttal to his main arguments.
What's even trying to say he can't pronounce the name of large corporation so what?
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So uh. When Season 2 comes out and ultimately decides the ending of FNV, do I just pretend it’s not canon? I almost never ask these sort of “tell me what to do” questions but I really like Fallout and it’s hard the ignore the shitty TV show. Before you ask, I’m never giving money to Amazon. I always pirate
>>715850261>Noo stop making fun of my replacement father figure
>>715851181Its going to be a canonical legion victory. You can [pretend all you like that its not real but in your heart you'll know
>>715843284Why are you Indian?
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>>715851796I would honestly torment myself and watch the show if a Legion victory is canon. I’m a huge Legion fan. I want to see Lucy get raped by Legionaries and Maximus get his shit kicked in
berdley
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>>715851181No one that likes fallout would say this shit? Most people just clown on the show for being retarded while dealing with shills doing damage control. I don’t even know why you thought saying this would be in any way believable.
>>715852153>I would honestly torment myself and watch the show if a Legion victory is canon. I’m a huge Legion fan.Based brother.
>I want to see Lucy get raped by Legionaries and Maximus get his shit kicked inBreeding stock Lucy and seeing Maximus get crucified would be so kino. Man, I hope they go through with it. I want to see Caesar in all his glory, same for Legate Lanius and our boy Vulpes.
>>715852754>Breeding stock Lucy and seeing Maximus get crucified>Caesar in all his glory, same for Legate Lanius and our boy VulpesBased based based. But, from context clues…. The Prydwen, cold fusion, Vault-Tec, Enclave, and the House cameo. I feel like they’re going to do something super corny like use the cold fusion tech from S1 to power Liberty Prime to attack the Strip. But, whatever. All that matters is that the Legion ending is canon