How do you convince new players that they don't need and shouldn't want this feature?

I don't think the notion of this is that bad in and of itself but there's no weaning effort to show players that the reason for this line to exist and what to look for (such as trackside landmarks or meter boards) in order to understand braking zones without relying on a visual guide slapped on the racing line itself.

>>715882413 (OP)
Cars go vroom

>>715882470
And crash if you don't know where to slow down, that's kind of the point of it.

>>715882413 (OP)
pretty sure some games like forza dock you rewards for enabling it, seems good enough

>whole point of racing is to go fast
>if you go too fast you crash

bad game design

>>715882413 (OP)
If anything it's still too unintuitive and new player unfriendly. They should add a mode where the breaks kick in in the red part of the line so you can focus on steering and not miss out on progression. This is known in the industry as player first design philosophy.

>>715882548
That's just taking it away with the allure of greater rewards for playing without it. It doesn't go into how you race when you don't have it.

i dont use the line because it sucks and is always wrong but keeping braking only is good when im too lazy to watch the road

>>715883015
Like a lot of driving assists in racing games you end up going faster when you learn to operate without them but the best line function in particular is one of the hardest things to convey can improve and solidify your driving/racing experience when you learn to operate without it.

>>715882754
A lot of really hardcore sims do have braking assist modes that actually let the game take over some or even all of the braking functionality as you approach a corner but that's the equivalent of daddy pushing you on your training wheels-equipped bicycle. If you actually like racing I think a lot of people avoid that even when starting out.

I think switching from automatic to manual is the harder switch
personally I find it very unintuitive on controller. my hands are already busy enough

Like if I were making GT's license tests I'd have a whole "unit" somewhere along the line that delves into track acclimatization techniques so you can adapt to driving any course and how to learn what to look for.

>>715882413 (OP)
I don't use that because the game I play doesn't have an option to turn that on

>>715882754
automatic braking isnt a thing nowadays? I had it on in gp2 back in 1997

>>715883629
Yeah. I fucking hate manual on a controller. It's awkward as fuck. IRL it's fun but your car gives you pretty good feedback for when to switch gears. In vidya, that doesn't really happen that much.

What are some good setups (steering wheel and pedals) for some sim racing games? I suck with the controler for sofrer inputs

>>715882413 (OP)
The line got me into simcade in the first place, before it I had no concept of braking before corners. You naturally move away from it over time.

>>715886994
Softer*

>>715882576
In any forza you get less credits the more helps you have enabled.

I only use it for new tracks until I get a feel for the braking points. Turn it off after 1 or 2 AI races.

>>715882413 (OP)
i think rally games are what broke me out of being a racing line tranny.
but also enthusia's weight & tire visualizer thing is such a great system for newfags and it sucks that no other game has done anything like that besides initial d

>>715885932
All you need to do is get used to the best time to switch gears with the car you are using and have a brain capable of thinking of more than one thing at a time.

>>715887052
Do you, though? I feel like I had to just force myself to stop using it simply out a desire to make the experience feel more meaningful. It wasn't even about going fast, I just wanted to actually understand how racing drivers learn tracks.

>>715882413 (OP)
assistive mechanics are a cancer
people have clearly spoken up that they don't like them, half of the reason secondaries playing babby's second game love soulsslop is just that it doesn't have assistive shit shoved in your face constantly and they let you just play the game
of course most people aren't cognizant of this, but devs should at least be intelligent enough to put 2 and 2 together, assistive mechanics and ui that aren't absolutely necessary need to go and stay go

>>715887183
>and have a brain capable of thinking of more than one thing at a time

>>715887183
I hate when I get put in a car with garbage ratios that either give really low redlines that don't let me exploit the lower gears properly or the power band of the final gear fighting with the rev limiter and making me wish I had another gear to change to.

I don't. I let them have the driving line on and then see them seethe as I go flying past using unconventional lines.

How do I learn to properly implement a differential into a tuning setup? I have a broad understanding of what they do but I don't know what I should be doing if I install one to improve my performance on track.

>>715888036
the tuneable gearbox was always a brilliant feature in gran turismo. I had a notepad full of ratios to top out at the strait of each track.

Electric cars are boring to drive in sim racers because there's no shifting.

>muh linear acceleration curve

It's still less fun.

>>715888402
I like to set the LSD as low as possible.
watch replays, specifically, you are looking for wheel spin on the inside wheel when you put the power on while exiting a corner. Have just enough to prevent that.

I mean when I was a kid playing racing games I could have used it, most of the time I was just full throttle, smashing into the walls, losing most races and then looking up cheats for the coolest cars so I could smash into the walls even faster.

Nowadays I have a vague idea of how to race but it's still either 'full throttle until the very last moment, full brakes, lock up and crash into walls', or 'try to slow down ahead of time, watch as rest of racers overtake me'.

Rewind is still an important assist to me: I've never encountered a situation where I accidentally fucked up a corner and didn't just instantly lose.

>>715882413 (OP)
While your topic is centered upon driving games, what you're really talking about is difficulty settings.

There should be no difficulty settings in any game. It should be the same experience for all. NG+ is a debatable experience, but is a far better solution than difficulty settings.

Driving games, Fighting games, etc. should all ramp up difficulty as you play the game which teaches newbies how to play and lets experienced players breeze through it but experience new content in the genre.

>>715888927
try dirt rally 2.0 that game will beat the lead foot out of you.
Now i go slower, more casual. Trying to just survive the track and the funny thing is i cannot beat those casual times when i fully send it (even when i dont crash).

Racing lines make me feel like I haven't accomplished anything in the race. The suggested gear thing in Gran Turismo is great tho

>>715889341
That's the closest implementation to a really functional way to get players to pay attention to the environment rather than the racing line to learn how to properly read a circuit without needing a direct visual aid.

>>715882413 (OP)
It's called training wheels retard, it's there so newbies can figure out the track layout. It's not the game fault the player is retarded and can't learn breaking distance.

Admittedly I do rely on the minimap to figure out really sharp corners. It's hard to read those simply by trying to learn the course raw, especially when elevation changes are involved (like Alsace in Gran Turismo, which has some very sharp corners at the bottom of hills that are hard to make out until you're right on top of them).

>>715882754
Braking assist does exist, Forza Motorsport either 3 or 4 introduced what is effectively one button driving, at that point you're really just training new players to see this as the norm which is not a good thing.

>>715889319
is that the best rally game out there at the moment? I've played other games like BeamNG and such but if I know I can get fucked up by a single error I tend to drive like someone on the way to church

>>715890604
>mfw i found out Alsace was a real place and they just mapped the terrain and slapped a track on it.

>>715882413 (OP)
I like racing games but hate the whole 'rote memorization of track layouts' aspect of them
I don't know how you could make a racing game that doesn't have that tho, maybe a roguelike racing game with procedurally generated tracks or some shit?

>>715882413 (OP)
>How do you convince new players that they don't need and shouldn't want this feature?
Implement a verbal co-driver AND pop up road signs telling you what kind of turn is coming up and a jump scare telling you to FUCKING BRAKE NOW. So not too far from what you see in rally games, but tailored for new drivers on circuits.

>a circuit built on a derelict airfield that is composed of nothing but cones and arbitrary curbs with a goddamn crossover section that has no meter boards whatsoever

Why is this allowed?

>>715890860
I think more education on brakes as well. If I see a 'BRAKE NOW' sign I'm slamming on that shit

>>715891172
I meant to say that the brake jump scare would come in several levels. Color coded, sound/tone coded, the animation that pop ups are all tailored to the urgency of the braking. In fact just use an anime girl to assist you to hook people in.

>>715891172
Gran Turismo makes you do braking tests as your first license exams in every game but the correlation between these tests and what you actually need to do in a race have little correlation.

>>715890723
theres's a few rally games people play
>dirt rally 2.0
>EA sports WRC 24 (made by the same people as dr 2.0, essentially dirt rally 3)
>BeamNG recently added a rally mode that's supposedly pretty good
>boomers swear by some ancient game called Richard Burns Rally

>>715891420
I don't even know what these tests teach you because I've been slamming on the brakes from 100 to 0 in every single GT game and still get gold

>>715891532
I actually struggle getting golds on those because I can't figure out what it wants me to do. I'm not trying to bring a car to a complete stop in a race so why do I need to figure out the right braking zone to do that here? It's not a skill that has anything to do with race driving (since braking in a race is more about conserving momentum while gaining enough grip to make the turn, which is a highly dynamic process).

>>715890815
Dirt 4 did that but it was kind of ass.
You might enjoy playing Trackmania in some tournament formats that don't allow you to practice.

>>715891765
A mix of Kaz autism and muh tradition
It's just trial and error using visual indicators on the road or signage and optimize the shit out of exactly when to mash the brake so your rear wheels end up exactly on the finish line's grid texture

>>715882413 (OP)
Gran Turismo 3 literally solved this problem back in 2001
I will explain it but I'll also just show you 1st because you'll likely understand better than words could https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6LSF0603Ck

Next to your currently selected gear is a blank space that lights up with a 2nd number when you enter the braking zone. This number flashes at you in what the game thinks is the optimal gear to exit the corner in and this also doubles as your braking indicator.

You wont realise it at the time but you are actively being taught where to brake without even noticing the blinking light after a while because you subconciously learn where to brake the more you drive and you associate the braking zone with track landmarks. And this is just the beginning, because as you improve and become accustomed to the course you may even find yourself coming up short on corners as you brake too early despite still using the flashing gear indicator. This is good because you then start to trust your own judgment, you know certain corners need to be braked much later at so you start using your own landmarks as braking markers. You are improving as a driver and relying on your own senses, this is something a baby mode painted on track driving line cannot do. It is designed to help shitters drive at an okay level and they'll never improve without the line as it becomes a crutch and turning the line off throws them completely off

>>715892736
We were discussing it further up (>>715889341 >>715889941).

>>715882576
well only games where you go as fast as you can without turning(aka dropping acceleration speed or just slowing down) are drag racing games. and drag racing sounds very gay.

>>715890723
dirt rally is kind of split between 3 games
>1 has the tutorial & pike's peak
>2 is the most 'complete' & one most people play
>wrc is ue5 stutterslop but with whole new tracks & areas and arguably some better asphalt handling
oh and ea just killed this series btw lol
richard burns rally is a more simdad centric ps2 era game but it has very good mod support and an active community that is doing some really cool things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8C8-S2n4lA&t=

make it available only in practice sessions
this will help them learn the track easier
just try to go faster each lap and that's it
I spent thousands of hours in various sims, all the way back to lfs days

>>715882413 (OP)
call it girlmode

>>715890895
because that's what the track they're copying is

>>715897061
I know but it's still kind of crazy anyone's expected to go fast around this thing.

>>715887194
Forza 2 got me into simcade, dirt got me to stop relying on the line and the crew got me to manually shift because it was kind of boring but I liked cruising. After that I played all racing games with the assists off, then just bought a wheel and got into actual sims. I guess the progression doesn't happen with 1 game, it evolved as different games demanded different skills.