>abandon your core fans for modernized gameplay
>some literally whos indie devs pick it up
>they make BG3 and Expedition 33
>Instant hits with millions of copies sold
Imagine being Bioware and Square Enix right now.

Both are talentless woke companies filled with freaks and has-beens. They couldn't keep an audience if they were handed one.
Which they were.

>>715950834 (OP)
>all Bioware had to do was hire top of the line writers and use them to make good pause-based CRPGs
>all SE had to do was hire top of the lines storytellers and use them to make good turn-based JRPGs
Both of them failed in keeping the audience they'd cultivated. The only difference is that SE could still pivot and at least make an attempt at their former fans (that window is closing fast thanks to games like E33 thought). Bioware couldn't recapture their fanbase if they wanted to.

>bioware are trying to make shooters and live services now
>se are trying to make action games and fotm slop now
the issue is that neither of these companies are playing to their own strengths anymore and they've been failing to do so for so long that their talented devs and their audience have literally gone elsewhere when both groups realized they wouldn't be making those games anymore

>>715950834 (OP)

Devil's advocate: I think both companies are doing exactly what they should be doing. Not because they're doing it well or because they're succeeding but because like >>715951605 pointed out, they don't have the talent, passion or skill to make games like they used to anymore. At this point firing around seemingly randomly at other fanbases, in a desperate attempt to capture one, is kinda the best thing they can do. Blind fishing is at least still fishing and they do get a catch every now and then, see FF14 that ate a chunk of WoW's pie.
I'm not saying it's intelligent, but I do understand how they've come to the conclusion that it is.

>>715950834 (OP)
larian arent literally who. swen was making games for 30 years.

>>715951214
>muh wooooke
Pol-nigger begone

>>715952495
Larian were absolutely literally who. Only with DoS did they even appear on anyone's radar. Nobody bought the LED wars or their many failed Divinity games.

>>715952504
This hobby isn't for you Rajesh.

>>715951371
Final Fantasy is too big of a brand name internationally. All they have to do is release a good one. Or even a mid one. XIV is a tremendous money maker for them. The blowback to 16 was that it really wasn't "Final Fantasy"

>>715952662
post hands miguel

>>715952680
>All they have to do is release a good one.
Yeah but they aren't physically capable of that. They've lost the spark. Their latest mainline FF game, 16, barely did 3m sales which is pathetic for this series and Rebirth, under the banner of the most iconic JRPG ever made: FF7, never even managed 3m.
Final Fantasy WAS a big international brand. Now it's sloppy gray fodder no one cares about and I don't think a single good game, even if they made one by accident, would save it.

>>715952680
>The blowback to 16 was that it really wasn't "Final Fantasy"
that's been "the blowback" since XIII (arguably XII)
and they still don't get it, this won't suddenly change now

>>715952864
>that's been "the blowback" since XIII (arguably XII)
>the same for Bioware after Dragon Age Origins
The sad reality is that SE and Bioware have had literal decades to turn their shit around yet neither company gave a shit and now they're both practically irrelevant in the space they essentially made for themselves.

what was his fucking problem?

>>715953063
>painted as the cuntish sister's bf
>real sister wouldn't forgive this

>Bioware (EA) stock is on the rise
>Square Enix stock in on the rise
You people don't get it. The quality of the games, or hell, even the sales of the games don't matter when you reach a certain size as a company. Potential success matters far more than actual success because it is within investors best interest that excitement rises in the board room, even if it doesn't amount to anything, as long as they get their payday before everyone else realizes the next game will be slop too.

Dragon Age Veilguard probably generated EA more investor-money than 100m sales of the actual game would have.

>>715953209
>believing corpos being incompetent and apathetic is actually le ebin scheme everyone but you is too dumb to se through
Holy mother of cope
>>715952495
This, what fucking games do you play if you didn't hear of larian before os1 and 2? It's excusable if you're a consolenigger but anyone else should kill themselves right now

>>715953209
As someone who has an invested interested (I own stock in SE) in the performance of SE I can tell you right now you have no idea what you're talking about.
The recent spike in SE's stock performance is not purely related to their game sales this is true in one aspect but rather they've been gaining a bunch of capitol investors some from Saudi Arabia who are pumping the company and the other is the Activist investor company 3D Investment Partners who not control over 10% of Square Enix and want to milk the I.P.s and min max cash shops for their current online games.
In short, SE are on borrowed time and unless they can pull themselves out of this mess they're currently in of an investment bubble they're going to pop.

>>715953460
Your retardation being terminal is very unfortunate for you but the CEO of SE and Bioware is being applauded in every board meeting as they go home to fuck lingerie models in their mansions.

>>715953751
Fucking strangers is the most miserable experience in existence, trust me it's not the mark of success Hollywood told you it is.

>>715953936
>Fucking strangers is the most miserable experience in existence
kek like you'd know

>>715952326
The reason they lost their talent in the first place is because of retarded decisions. They only have a chance to make a comeback because they finally got rid of that dumb fuck CEO who was fucking up buying nft garbage and chasing current fads. Is it too late for them? Maybe, but if they fix their shit asap they might be able to salvage the pile of shit they've become.

Larian just kept making same game over and over with outsourcing to cheaper countries to increase production values. They dont know how to make a different style game.

Expedition 33 did turn based combat because the team was tiny and action combat would require much larger team. And people dont rate it for its combat, the turn based combat is prob the worst part.

If the AAA studios who pivoted to action combat kept making turn based game the the industry would be oversatured with them and bg3, E33 would do worse as they seem uninspired in that sceanrio.

Bioware died when they were bought up by EA.
SE died when they lost Gooch, their best tard-wrangler.

>>715950834 (OP)
damn it's almost like big greedy soulless corporations don't care about their fanbase and only want money from them

>>715954110

e33 is same modern dogshit in a different package

>>715954229
Really what's it a copy of?

>>715954262
leading question.

>>715952504
STFU trash

>>715954097
>They dont know how to make a different style game.
They clearly don't have to. From DoS1, to DoS2 to BG3 their trajectory is going upwards. They don't have to reinvent themselves because what they're doing they're doing well and their audience are responding.
Bioware and SE aren't in that position

Oh and most players praise E33's combat as literally the best part of the game so you're clearly arguing from bad faith.

>>715954229
There is nothing modern about E33. It was modern, it would have been openworld without an overworld, would have a minimap like nuFF, objective markers and question marks.

>>715954385
Yes leading you to answer what it's a copy of?
>same modern dogshit in a different package
What game is the same as E33?

>>715954435
Lots of people are fucking tired of parryslop being the one and only path to victory

>>715950834 (OP)
Bioware and SE never made games worth playing.

>>715954508
>ign
>people

>>715954508
>journos
No I'm talking about actual human beings.

>>715954583
Bioware made Baldur's Gate 2, which is arguably the best fantasy adventure game ever made.
Square Enix made Final Fantasy which put the JRPG genre on the international map in the first place.

Has the "ditch your old fanbase for a new one" shit ever worked? Not even thinking about Bioshit and Squareslop, but trying to re-invent yourself like this must be an insanely risky corporate strategy and I can't think of a time it's actually worked.

>>715954956
Maybe in some exception but for the most part it doesn't seem to work.
It didn't work for Halo.
It didn't work for Dragon Age
It didn't work for Mass Effect
It didn't work for Battlefield
It didn't work for Final Fantasy
and a bunch of other franchises.

>>715951605

>>715954956
There are a few underlying reasons companies do this:
>1. A public company has to grow to survive.
If the company has, or thinks it has, reached all the people it can with its current trajectory it pretty much HAS to find a way to expand upon that. Stagnation is death and its literally better to risk it all on something new than to stop growing.
>2. A lot of these companies think that their old audience is "locked in".
This means that they can do whatever they want and retain their old fanbase while searching for a new one. The irony is that this is actually not completely moronic, as consumer faith builds you can transfer a part of your old fanbase over to a new one, but it requires the new products to be good, which is where a lot of the companies fail to deliver. What SE and Bioware have in common is that they both shat out enough garbage that their old guard aren't interested in sticking with them anymore, the consumer faith is dead, and they have lost the old audience.

Why do people pretend the E33 devs are some fresh faced newbies with a dream? They are industry veterans. Same with the weird "le studio of 33 people" meme while ignoring the insane funding they had as well as massive outsourced labor.

>>715950834 (OP)
based rightwing game

>>715955435
It's convenient for their narrative.

>>715955396
It's a business theory that hasn't translated into the gaming market. Which is why it always fails because that theory was created in a different market but it's why it's continued to be used because the people in control of a bunch of franchises are business orientated people instead of creatives like the industry used to be.

>>715955435
Because they are? Sandfall Interactive is a brand new company made by people who hate Ubisoft and have leveraged their talent and resources to make something new.

>>715955435
there was large amount of talk how many people actually contributed to E33 immediately after someone dared to mention how a small team managed to make such a great game off hand in a game show

>>715955435
>They are industry veterans
3 people out of 33 had previously worked for Ubisoft the majority of the team are newbies. Watch the making of Exp33 and it explains this.
>As well as massive outsourced labour
They outsourced combat animations to a Korean guy the Exp 33 director saw on Youtube, who had help from his friends around 10 people.

It really boils your piss that a small tiny of relative newcomers made such a great game with such a small budget while big mega companies like SE with multiple hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of staff couldn't make half the game.

>>715955475
>It's a business theory that hasn't translated into the gaming market.
This is literally how a niche developer like Atlus sold Persona dancing game spinoffs. From Software is doing this by pulling Souls fans into Armored Core. The idea definitely works, in From's case extremely well, in Atlus' case they're probably facing similar issues to Bioware and Square-Enix in the coming decade.

>>715955435
Because, aside from 3 people, the whole team is made of new people?
Like, yeah, the guy who started the company had some experience working at ubi, but
>the insane funding they had
AA cost game, not that much
>massive outsourced labor.
But you are shitposting in bad faith. What's next? Translators SHOULD count as part of the staff?

I don't know how it made the companies or the people who work their "feel" when BG3 and E33 came out, but it sure makes me incredibly happy watching corpo-apologists try to rationalize why (literally) thousands of employees are failing to deliver good games, while small studios like Larian and Sandfall are dominating gaming culture and making names for themselves while the old behemoths die slow deaths.
It's also really opened my eyes to how many people on this board want to suck big-corpo cock and it has dehumanized a lot of you.

>>715951605
Splatroon

>>715955630
Atlus' biggest issue is that they're barely making games. 99% of what comes out of that company is spinnoffs (and now remakes) of what they already have made. I have a feeling the Persona 4 remake is going to be a real wakeup call.

>>715954956
>>715955396
Yes, it's been a bad business and artistic decision in the vast majority of cases.
You would think people would have finally gotten the message that "the old audience is locked in" is bullshit after Star Wars, DC comics and even to an extend Disney crashed and burnt doing it.

>>715955630
What you're saying is brand loyalty to FromSoftware and Atlus is the same as changing the game formula to appeal to a new audience works while a myriad examples exist that it does not
>>715955286
The main thing that people look for is trust and simply put people trusted FromSoftware because they hadn't been nickle and dimed by the Souls series, but that trust you can see is being eroded in real time with Nightreign how they've changed their formula to appeal to a different audience is diminishing the the trust in the developer.

The same thing happened with Halo when 343 took on the franchise, people turned out for Halo 4 the first 343 made game and even though it sold well it eroded the trust in the franchise to such an extent it hasn't recovered. That game tried to appeal to a different audience than existed for Halo.

>>715955843
>Disney
This. Shouldn't one of the biggest entertainment companies on Earth failing prove that your much smaller company probably won't succeed either?
I don't understand who approves these massive risky moves.

>>715955826
Yes, Atlus has been eroding faith in their brand since the 3DS era, with the Atlus tax, silly spinoffs, remakes with lacking effort, rampant DLC in the face of several consumer backlash controversies and so on, so forth.

>>715954465
the game is modern garbage for opting for reactive gameplay. a proper game of the genre e33 apes would focus on long term risk assestment rather than pressing a button correctly 10 times in a row. it's low intelligence slop for the masses.

>>715950834 (OP)
Japs were never known for their decision making skills. Their top award so far for this particular fault were two nukes if you have forgotten.

>>715955435
>They are industry veterans.
When they released the game they had a party where they separated the people above and below age 33 and the younger were the majority. They are absolutely not old geezer veterans. Even the studio head is in his late 30s.
>massive outsourced labor.
Another anon already said it but the main outsourcing was combat animation to a bunch of amateur Koreans. Aside from that for the voice acting (in English and French) they hired a small French audio studio which usually does French anime dubbing. The massive third world sweatshops you imagine making the game exist only in your imagination.

>>715950834 (OP)
Too bad E33 has shit artstyle and Robert Pattison MC

>>715956210
>jarpigs
>long term risk assestment
why are you trying to fool ranjeet, lol?

>>715955885
If you keep making good games and have that reputation, then you try something new, a good portion of your audience is going to follow it. If that thing is also good, it can grow, as seen with AC6 outselling the rest of the series combined. You might say AC6 is not something new but like every other AC generation it iterated extensively on mechanics and borrowed some things from their recent games like a boss focus and a stagger bar, and we haven't even gotten into how niche mecha is without From Software's reputation carrying it.

>>715956210
>The game appeals to a mass audience
SHOCK HORROR!

>>715956290
>I grinded so the genre is easy
any other arguments?

>>715956251
>Their top award so far for this particular fault were two nukes if you have forgotten.
and based on the state of our countries since, in retrospect it would appear they made the better decision somehow
if you are going to base it on that particular decision i'm inclined to trust the japs more than i trust basically any other country, because the result is now that my country is the most tyrannical hellhole on earth, with the highest rate of rape in any developed country. and your country mr burger is literal inches away from being in the same state
japan is currently not anywhere near that state

>>715956335
Armored core wasn't a brand new game series, it was a very old series older than Souls so the point you're trying to make about making a new game series or changing drastically to appeal to a new audience there isn't translating well. Armored Core 6 fundamentally is not different to previous Armored Core game, it's using an updated engine but in fundamental design it's the same design philosophy.
The example for a game series pivoting to a brand new direction to appeal to a new audience is Elden Ring to Nightreign which is a different design philosophy making a Battle Royale out of a Souls game, which I explained the situation there already, the erosion of trust has already begun.

>>715951371
>Bioware couldn't recapture their fanbase if they wanted to.
Come out and say veilguard is dogshit thats not conan and that you're working on a proper sequel thats more like origins. There, ill give you a chance

>>715950834 (OP)
This game is not good because of the gameplay, there is noone serious about games that thinks gameplay is this game's strong suit.

>>715956432
why don't just you fix you goddamn country then you fucking parasite? no one is coming to save you

>>715956210
Well done you've now discovered that most people want to play video games for fun and not as a chore or an exercise in self-improvement.

>>715955826
I don't know what they are smoking with the P4 remake. P3 was essentially unplayable outside of emulation (which 98% of gamers don't use) and they had the sense to not release the original (portable doesn't count) on PC and modern platforms beforehand. They absolutely had an audience for P3R whereas the release of P4Golden in 2020 will make people reluctant to double dip to get a glorified "P5 art style but yellow" DLC.

E33 is very divisive here because it has a strong identity. Perhaps the strongest this decade (music, setting, costumes, world).
Which means if people (for ex western Europeans) can relate to its identity will most likely really like it to the point of ignoring its flaws.
On the contrary, if people don't relate to its identity (for ex Asian) they will not like the game because gameplay or narrative flaws will become much more prevalent.

>>715956730
Japs like Exp33, more Japs bought Exp33 than FF16.

>>715956571
Armored Core 6 was a pivot from their current direction that got a massive audience it otherwise wouldn't have gotten thanks to their other games. That's evidence that you can sell games in a niche genre if you have a strong reputation, and when AC6.5 comes out and sells about as well, it'll be further evidence of that. The problem just about every other developer has is making consistently good games.

>>715956961
You're confusing two different things that is bringing back a franchise that was long time missed and creating a game that faithfully respects that franchise, you're confusing that from taking a current game franchise and changing it's core design to appeal to a new audience.
These two things are not the same.
Again, you have not once addressed Elden Ring to Nightreign and that is the appropriate test example here, not Armored Core as explained in my previous posts.

OP is a faggot shill and probably the one who keeps posting fucking E33 threads past its FOTM date
Call him out on it

>>715957153
I don't have much to add on the Nightreign side of it. It's a developing situation. I fucking hated it and was a little surprised to see a good amount of people feeling differently. I'm not a good judge of it because I hate BRs. Financially I'm sure we can both agree that it did amazing but that's not the point. I think if From released AC6 as some random mech game, people still would have bought it.

>>715950834 (OP)
Is this the turn-cringe boomer seethe thread?

>>715950834 (OP)
bioware never made turn based RPGs or good games

>>715957403
>shipped
kek

>>715950834 (OP)
>indie devs
why do people keep lying about this?

>>715950834 (OP)
Since when do turn fags buy turn-based games?

Not to mention that Square Enix still does make turn-based games. Yes, the ones that you don't buy.

>>715957472
How many of those 7 million sold copies (as of 2023) are lying in Amazon and Target warehouses?

>>715957271

>>715957476
the game is not indie (AA) but the studio is indie because they hold the majority stake. So why do you say it's a lie?

>>715950834 (OP)
>parryslop being the one and only path to victory
Would be a damn shame if turn-based made a comeback. Somehow.

>>715957403
Anon, that's remake of what is possibly THE biggest JRPG as far as western audiences go. And you think those are good numbers including the port?

>>715957494
Since forever.

>>715957656
>15 million sold copies of Final Fantasy VII in ~30 years is good
>7 million sold copies of Final Fantasy VII Remake in ~3 years is bad
Holy turn-cringe schizoposting.

>>715957789
Yes. Gaming has grown since FF7 days.

>>715957569
BG3 cost a hundred million to make, its not indie.
Clair Obscur team is 30 people, its not indie.
Indie is very small teams, 30 people is AA.

>>715954097
You are one of those people who goes "hmm, what would make sense to me?" and then think that that's automatically how reality looks like.
You are wrong.

>>715954110
>I said the thing give me asspats, line must go up am I right?
That wouldn't be stupid if Bioware wasn't bleeding money all over the place.

>>715958118
Clair also was made with the help of his familys wealth. Which kind of goes against the spirit of the term “indie”, as most people can’t just throw 3 million dollars at their first game project.

>>715954465
You can't expect a monkey to know the meaning of the words he's throwing around. To him "modern dogshit in a different package" just means bad. In his mind he just said "e33 is bad" and is now confused that you are asking a question that goes beyond "e33 is not bad".

>>715955435
3 of those people came from Ubisoft and none of them did anything that was too outstanding there. Most of their core members were newbies who never worked on any game, or did anything commercial in their field. Like their composer never composed anything for money or their lead writer has never written anything for money.
The only core part of the game that was outsourced where 8 Korean animators, who didn't even work full time on the game.

There is a reason why the Expedition credits are so much shorter than those of a modern AAA game. That reason is that it was made by a small team.

>>715956730
The game was very successful in Japan, the fact that you don't think it was is because some shitposters where lying about it on 4chan.
The fact that you fell for that means that you are weak to propaganda.

>>715958337
I think this is the crux of the matter. Most games dream to have a 30+ dev team and millions of dollars in budget.

>>715952504
Ywnbaw

>>715955435
>they're not a new company because the people were already devs
Okay why can't the other already existing devs at the other companies do something good then?

>>715958337
>>715958673
>Clair also was made with the help of his familys wealth.
There has never been any evidence for this.
Rather the opposite when you see him streaming from his apartment, the fact that they worked as a small team without pay in the beginning until they had a vertical slice to apply for funding in the traditional way.

Bioware's true successor is Owlcat and they have perfected the genre. Deal with it

>>715958852
Most indie games are working for free until the game actually comes out, which is why a lot adopt an early access model so they can actually pay their employees.

>>715958354
that's a whole lot of words to say nothing. impressive.

>>715950834 (OP)
>dev likes FF8, the game everyone makes fun of
>ends up making a better FF than Square
We fucking it did it FF8 chads. Next up is the GOTY awards.

>>715958946
>perfecting the genre means having terrible encounter design and adding some terrible chore of a game mechanic like that gay army management
I guess I prefer the genre to be a bit more flawed then.

>>715956148
I don't agree that it's as bad as all that. Most of their recent games SMTVV, P3R and Metaphor have been well met and have done relatively well compared to the size of the IPs.
Nothing's topped P5 yet, but i don't think anyone, least of all Atlus was expecting that.

A lot of people forget that Atlus is still, at best, a AA-bordering-on-AAA company with graphics that look like they belong on the PS3. They don't need to sell 5m of any game to quite easily break even, which is why their games tend to live up to their sales expectations.
Neither Bioware or SE can say the same.

>>715956210
>it's low intelligence slop for the masses
E33's story is more intelligent and though-provoking than any I can remember from Japan since... FF8?

>>715956730
I like the game because it has a fucking explorable world map. All the major JRPG devs just stopped using those around 20 years ago and it was a stupid fucking decision. They make the game world feel larger and provide a sense of exploration.

>>715956652
>ill give you a chance
Great. I'm glad (You) are that forgiving but Dragon Age fans have been getting rammed in every hole against their will since DA2, and I'm not sure they're going to be as forgiving as you are.

>>715956730
Sloppers can't appreciate art.
And that's what E33 is. Art.

>>715950834 (OP)
Euro chads keep winning!

>>715950834 (OP)
Just make attractive characters and good graphics
That's it

>>715957789
>doing worse with a bigger audience is actually... le good
Oh and this shit has 0 legs and is probably selling 1-3 copies a month at this point.

>>715958337
>>715958673
Jrpgs are also a risky genre. Most fans moved to gacha and the average jrpgfag is a dishonest contrarian

>>715959495
Yeah, I agree that Atlus isn't going anywhere and if anything they have potential to keep growing. Financially I'm sure all their games do great. I think most people have a more corporatized view of the Atlus of today than the Atlus of 15 years ago regardless and they're not doing anything to help that attitude.

>>715951605
>Live service
I really don't understand why so many big companies are chasing this idea. Yeah sure you CAN make a lot of money through micro transactions but most of these games flop after a month and don't ever reach a fraction of the games development cost yet devs keep making them

>>715957494
Sold as well as Rebirth :)

>>715950834 (OP)
As someone who never really liked the old FF games besides XI and XIV. I think Stranger of Paradise and XVI are good.

>>715950834 (OP)
Kids don't care about squeenix Nintendo etc

>>715950834 (OP)
But, Square Enix have been putting out tons of turn based games lately.

>>715959957
No cool graphics bro

>>715950834 (OP)
They never did. SaGa gets a lot of love, Fantasian was ported and even getting a sequel and they are adding content in DQ2HD.

the girls in e33 are butt ugly idc what the youtuber shills say. final fantasy girls are actually hot unlike the ugly swarthy e33 immigrant girls

>>715960023
This is what it genuinely comes down to. These faggots screaming about Square not making turn based games anymore don't actually give a fuck about turn based games. They only want the realistic graphics with no real artstyle. If E33 came out, exactly the same as it was, but with an anime aesthetic, none of them would have played it.

>>715959957
except big mainline 100m+ budget ones

>>715960086
>lower case letter
>. lower case letter
Falseflagger indian

>>715950834 (OP)
another thing these 2 games have in common is that both sold the most in China. Without it neither wouldn't been anywhere near a success. So if anything the thing to learn here is that the big money is on Steam and China.

>>715960120
Not only that, they are remaking romancing saga 3, updating unlimited saga and working in a new SaGa game.

>>715960120
Check out any jrpg thread. It's always waah waah
>Tranime
>Buy an ad
>PS2 graphics
>Shit plot

>>715960169
projection saar. tifa, aerith and yuffie are literal goddesses while e33 girls are creepy looking brown mutts

>>715960162
Who cares? If you're only complaining about them not making turn based games, but ignoring the ones they do put out because they're not bloated budget, shiny games, then you're a faggot.
>>715960225
They're also going to have plenty of new turn based games coming with the Switch 2 released. I hope we finally fet a SMRPG 2.

>>715959859
>I really don't understand why so many big companies are chasing this idea.
Nta, but really? Would you rather get paid once or get paid forever? Most companies are willing to bet a LOT on the latter and I completely understand that. Especially with gacha (which is also under the "live service" umbrella IMO) if one out of a hundred make it that's still a good investment because most gacha is low-budget trash.

>>715960120
>these faggots screaming want actually good games that took effort instead of some scraps on the side
Gamers are so entitled, it's like the worst.

You can tell the Indians have arrived ITT.

>>715960624
So, you're admitting that you're a gigantic faggot who only cares about big budget games with the shiniest graphics?

>>715950834 (OP)
>it's not turn based
another brainlet take that fails to analyze what made e33 or bg3 good

>>715950834 (OP)
Don't worry. Neither company will learn anything from this.

>>715952806
People don't talk enough about how deeply Square Enix managed to finally poison what was once a reliable golden goose sub-IP (Final Fantasy VII). Fans put up with a ton of blueballing and exploitative spinoff crap for over 2 decades, but being tricked with the first part of the remake (and basically being told they're villains in the creatives' eyes for wanting something faithful) was the grand piano that finally destroyed the camel's back.

Companies really need to start doing their due diligence and stop letting creatives treat long-awaited sequels and remakes as selfish art therapy sessions to take out their misery against fans. This is a very consistent phenomenon too, one that includes both newcomer project leads and original veteran staff. East and West.

>>715950834 (OP)
>they make BG3 and Expedition 33
bg3 flopped due to woke

>>715960853
Ff7r missed their chance in 2015 when millennials were young and zoomers were kids
Had released in 2015 as one game it would have been huge

>>715952504

it's true - and all the beautiful white french characters makes you seethe but you won't admit it

>>715959606
Every DA fan played inquistion, lets not talk about standards and high expectations

>>715960853
>Companies really need to start doing their due diligence and stop letting creatives treat long-awaited sequels and remakes as selfish art therapy sessions to take out their misery against fans.
Every single AAA gaming company on Earth should have a plaque with this engraved above the CEO's boardroom chair.

>>715960853
this is a good post
couldn't have said it better myself

>>715953730

explain to us more how the stock market doesn't reflect reality at all - no shit sherlock

>>715954229

good point - why can't giant corps do that then?

>>715960853
A remake, no matter where it's from or who made it or why, should never exist to do anything but pander to the original fanbase. If the remake is good, it will grow organically in line with maintaining the original fanbase. If the remake is bad... well just look at Flobirth for a great example of what happens then:
>destroys brand value
>shatters fan loyalty
>barely sells at all
>heavily divides loyalists and haters

>>715960853
>Companies really need to start doing their due diligence and stop letting creatives treat long-awaited sequels and remakes as selfish art therapy sessions to take out their misery against fans
This shit is even worse in hollywood. How dogshit shows like the witcher and wheel of time got made is beyond me. WoT especially felt like it was made by someone who hated everything wot represented

>>715955435
>Why do people pretend the E33 devs are some fresh faced newbies with a dream?

why do trannies keep straw manning when the real point is that once all the DEI HR people are gone workers can actually make good things again??

>>715950834 (OP)
E33 was dogshit

Why is most of the porn of this game of the ugly asian chick?

>>715954508
>posting ign "game journalism" as your example
for your sake i hope youre memeing

>>715961347
>WoT especially felt like it was made by someone who hated everything wot represented
A friend of mine vouched for this show, and his taste in books is good so I was hoping it would extend to shows, but I couldn't make it through the first season. I read these books growing up and we loved to play Rand and Matt going on adventures, but watching this garbage actively tainted those memories.

I am no longer taking his recommendations in TV shows seriously.

>>715961391
E33 is only good if you're retarded

>>715961468
Because you have no personality.

>>715956730

look at them all latch onto "japan" as if that's what you really meant by asian lolololol

>>715958118
indie means you are independent. I'm talking about the studio here which is independent.
I also stated the game is AA, therefore not indie because it had a publisher.

>>715961491
My first exposure to wot was actually the show. I liked the concept of the it, but by the end of season i was done. Pregnant girlboss minutes away from giving birth taking on multiple solders was the moment the show was done for me.
Glad i gave the books the chance after that and now i hate the show even more for ruining what could have been.

>>715959659
>And that's what E33 is. Art.
These people are mentally ill

>>715960649
this
short dull copy-pasted replied shitting on the underdog or rooting for big corpos tend to point to brown hands

I'm sorry but E33 is ugly, UE5 games look bad

>>715961710
>Expedition
>Underdog

>>715961671
Good for you Anon. The books are genuinely good and deserve your attention.

>>715961723
It also has a terrible artstyle

>>715961751
yeah, cope about it browny

>>715961710
I find this hard to believe since E33 appeals specifically to people with IQs below 100. Brown people should love it

>Audette said that he refutes the claims that BioWare made a "bad or compromised game" and that the team actually made the "best version of what we released, warts and all". Audette also stated that he's proud of what the team put together, and that they couldn't have "made a better Dragon Age", only a different one.

>>715961564
Actually I meant indians because they're 99% of E33 haters.

>>715956730
It's the closest to modern FF
>Turn based
>Good graphics
>Emotional moment

>>715961961
Where does this person say they hated it

>>715953063
Mixed up as a construction with the real world drama and then painted over twice.

>>715960697
Duh. The thread's about squenjx games selling like shit. Production value matters for casuals.

>>715961868
Nah. Brown people tend to hate it because they can't relate to its white themes, narratively.
Everytime a E33 haters has been doxxed, it was always a third world brownie. (Farquaad and 2 jeets so far).

>>715961868
Man, reaching 100 IQ must be a wild dream for you huh? I'm surprised you can type out a post at all.
>no full stop at the end of the last sentence
One day browny. One day.

>>715953063
Clea being a bitch

Bioware only got bigger when they stopped making isometric CRPG, hell they were never even turn based they were always RTwP.

>>715962094
>white themes
Like what?

>*totally organic short post about hating E33*

>>715961936
>we couldn't have made a better dragon age
we know

>>715962009
I know your IQ is around 80 which is still fairly high in whatever goatfucking shithole you come from but why would you make a thread on 4chin trying to underevaluate the story and its authors by claiming it is AI if you loved the game, retard?

>>715961961
Dota is a masterpiece though

>>715961961
>>715962094
kek based

>>715962254
We can smell your skin.

>>715955435
>Why do people pretend the E33 devs are some fresh faced newbies with a dream?
Because they were. Everyone was a newbie except like three people who were doing literally who jobs at Ubisoft
>They are industry veterans.
Such as?

>>715962060
The thread is about turn based

>>715962240
I didn't say he loved it. But why would he be talking with AI about a game he hates in the first place? Indians don't understand how llms work and he probably thought he uncovered something genuinely interesting.
Also, why are all e33 fans so histrionic and emotional? I didn't say anything bad about the game and you're having an absolute melty over it

>>715962169
Like Art, legacy and . Family and grief also. These are core white themes.
Grief is much less important in third world countries because they are much less empathic than white people in general.
In India, they literally let their own family corpses rot on the road because they don't even care about burying them.

>>715962316
I'm a white european balkanic ape, E33 is GOTY and Dota is the greatest game ever made.

>>715955286
would Kid Icarus Uprising count? It was an entirely different genre from the first 2 games, had way more of a sense of humor, and was still a solid experience that fit right in with the original games.

>>715962094
The average white person isn't stupid enough to be enthralled by the midwit moral questions this game raises

>>715962160
No one is disagreeing with you because you're not wrong.
This thread has nothing to do with "turn-based versus action combat". That's just insecure Final Fantasy fans.

>>715962389
Are you a bot? You've made this exact same post before

>>715962551
Why did you ask the exact same retarded question then?

>>715953460
DOS1 and 2 were pretty big, but no one really cared about the non-OS Divinity games. I don't ever remember seeing them posted about here pretty much at all

>>715962616
I actually tried playing a Divinity game after beating DOS1 and 2, and I can kinda understand why they're not talked about much.

>>715962389
Just because you include a certain theme doesn't mean you explore it in a way that's interesting or challenging. This is how I know e33 is a game for stupid people, you think the presence of any ideas at all is proof its thought provoking, when it's actually just utterly generic beat-to-death slop. Ironically, 3rd worlders would actually probably find the plot of this game interesting because they have so little experience with these ideas and wouldn't recognize how generic it is

>>715950834 (OP)
Rebirth mogs this ugly goyslop

>>715962903
We can tell you were molested by a male family member.

>>715962105
Zoomers are such fucking retards

>FOR THOSE WHO HECKIN COME AFTER

>>715962903
Rebirth is the definition of modern goyslop though
>openworld slop
>objective markers
>ublislop points of interest
>rare weapons locked behind mindless minigames
>censorship
it's modern gayming slop through and through

>>715961347
Oh yeah. When I said it was consistent, that includes different forms of media, not just vidya.
>>715961091
Suits need to be made more privy to the goings-on with the projects in their companies, especially where long-awaited remakes and revivals are concerned. If they get a whiff of the lead creative(s) deciding to be pretentious anti-audiencd cunts, subject them to "talks". The kind where they unplug the desk phones from the wall and ask everyone to put their cell phones into airplane mode because it's going to be a long talk and they don't want anyone interrupting them.

>>715961961
To his credit the plot of E33 does feel like it was written by AI. It's like they combined every shitty AppleTV+ original into the ultimate midwit melodrama

>>715962983
That's some surprising self-reflection from your generation.

Synthetic summary of 1000 Clair Obscur threads since release.

>>715960853
This is Yoko Taro's fault, somehow.

>>715963642
top kek

What I always find the most fun about people (using the term "people" pretty liberally here) shitting on Expedition 33 is that they never seem to have anything to say. It's usually just "it's bad", or "it's shit" or "it's ugly" or something similarly simplistic. Even when we get a slightly longer post, usually poorly phrased subjective filler-speak, it tends to mostly boil down to "I didn't understand it so it's bad". It's like all your criticisms come out of a locally hosted LLM that your call center has spared 1 mid-range GPU for.

Every time I read one such post I know the writer looks like pic related.

>>715963642
Been a long time since I actually chuckled at an image on this board Anon. Thank you.

At last Bioware hasn't started shamelessly remaking, or failing to remake, their good games.
That puts them leagues ahead of Square Enix.

>>715950834 (OP)
FFXVI is a game that most people here are too dumb to get, like Death Stranding or Soma. It’s better than DQ11.

The funniest part of Clair Obscur’s success is Broche literally pitched the game to the exec’s at Ubisoft and was told “No thanks, we have our secret weapon Japanese Assassin’s Creed in the oven, we *got* this.” Imagine if they had actually taken a chance on it.

Which begs the question: if it had been the exact same game with the exact same gameplay, exact same music, exact same story, exact same characters, exact same voice actors, exact same bosses, etc. but with an Ubisoft splash screen instead of a Sandfall one, would /v/ still be fawning over it?

>>715963986
>FFXVI is a game that most people here are too dumb to get
Please, enlighten us as to the narrative depths of Final Fantasy 16. Good luck.

>>715963986
/v/ is tired of Ubisoft.
I think /v/ is tired of a lot of big AAA corpos in general. Only shills, like actual paid brown people, still defend these massive corporate behemoths on this board. Why do you think they're so terrified of SKG?

>>715964062
There’s no point, this place doesn’t change its mind. I realized that way back in October 2012 when a certain demo everyone was bagging on released, was actually good, and got conveniently ignored. This board is great for news and jokes, it’s shit for actual criticism.

>>715963986
> if it had been the exact same game with the exact same gameplay, exact same music, exact same story, exact same characters, exact same voice actors, exact same bosses, etc. but with an Ubisoft splash screen instead of a Sandfall one, would /v/ still be fawning over it?
Absolutely not

>>715962541
Well its more about "good writing" vs "bad or generic" writing. E33 could have some actiony combat and the game would still be a huge hit. FF16 could have been turn based and no one would give a shit cause the same pacing issues might be even worse plus Ultima and Barnabas just were awful

>>715964179
Uh-huh, so nothing then. Stellar.
If it helps any, that's about the quality of response I was expecting from someone who unironically thinks FF16 has depth.

>>715963986
I like Soma but it's not hard to understand. It presents a few philosophical concepts that could be relevant to a future society in an easily digestible format. Philosophy doesn't intrinsically make something deep.

>>715964062
>Jill...if we call that...will we kill racism?
>...I don't know, Clive...I don't know.

>>715964302
What are your thoughts on how the game handles the illusion of free will the bearer’s seek versus the reality once the branded are no longer vilified?

>>715964590
*bearers
Fuck this gay ass autocorrect faggotry Microsoft needs “AI” for.

>>715950834 (OP)
>SE

every single mainline final fantasy game has sold more than e33 and rebirth alone is generations better than this clichee indie game story parry slop trash

>>715950834 (OP)
Pretty funny, but a vocal minority, like the idiots you see on /v/, are completely opposed to these games doing anything different.

>>715964590
It handles it in the most boring generic way possible by pretending the debate between destiny and choice is some novel new concept that FF10 didn't explore in more depth with Yuna's pilgrimage over 2 decades ago. It is easier to accept a "destiny" presented to you by society that does not take no for an answer when it is constantly reinforced by the people around you and the concept of freedom only exists once you no longer agree with the socially acceptable perspective.

Robin Hood did it better.

>>715961347
>This shit is even worse in hollywood.
People who work in Hollywood consider themselves superior to people who work in other fields and they always want to put their personal touch on every product they produce, despite that the vast majority of content Hollywood now makes being adaptations of much more successful industries (Books/Video games/Comic books) than Hollywood itself. Having such an elitist attitude despite being the epicenter of mediocrity is mind-boggling

>>715964791

>>715954229
This.
Content creators and game journalists shilled it for being le underdog with devs doing le passion project and retarded gaymers fell for it just because it had a story. They didn't even care it has the most boring gameplay that makes even gacha shit seem fun.

>>715965106

We can tell you have no inner voice.

>>715964921
What are your thoughts on the unification of the bearers (and to an extent, the other citizens of each state) by a folk lore-esque “legend” that, at the end, chooses to rule over them in a similar manner to their previous lords but under the guise of providing true freedom?

>>715965106
bunch of words to say you're a tendoslave

>>715965226
No. I've already given you my perspective on one of the games themes, and I'm not particularly interested in spending my time sharing more of them if all you're going to do is ask me for another. If you want to talk more about it, let's see some good faith, how about you share your interpretation and we'll see if it warrants further conversation?

>>715965168
>>715965272
E33 redditors are as schizophrenic as tendies. Willing to spend hours online defending their garbage turnbase slop.

>>715953063
He was tricked by the evil witch.

>>715965643
You need to internalize that sucking corporate dick is never going to make you a woman. You're just a faggot.

>>715965643
>E33 redditors are as schizophrenic as tendies
good, accepting you are an unstable cattloid is the first step towards recovery

>>715964791
you're damn right sister!! trans rights matter!!

>>715960853
I like Remake better than the original,
I like the changes too, just think it is badly executed in Rebirth.

>>715963059
Upvoted. I kneel fellow high IQ connoisseur. Just like how I kneel to prep up my wife's bull before starting up Clair Obscur.

Bioware has to be mostly a tax writeoff at this point. When was the last time that company even came close to a commercial slam dunk? Mass Effect 3?

>>715965565
I thought it was interesting that the game didn’t present the typical black-and-white duality of an oppressive state versus a free one. It didn’t shy from Cid’s enclave struggling, his methods helping bearers but ultimately dooming others, a good number of bearers being taken care of and appreciated by their lords but forced to lose their own worth to satisfy Cid/Clive’s goals. JRPGs typically have a very obviously evil set of characters and a very obviously good set of characters. The only truly “good” person was Byron, everyone else had complex motives for doing what they were setting out for. It’s funny you brought up FFX because many of the same themes apply (a pilgrimage to each state for unification, self-sacrifice, rejecting an oppressive deity, punishing oneself for the good of the others, forcing the world to forgo its convenient methods for simpler but “better” ones) but XVI goes further into the backend political dealings. Whenever I see people hand-wave away the political intrigue and claim it’s not built upon, I know they haven’t read Vivian’s findings or the Thousand Tomes. It’s all laid out there, even broken up into chunks based on progression. Satisfied?

>>715965968
The top picture is pretty much how every Rebirth and squeenix corpo dickriders from /v/ most likely look.

>>715966320
True.

>>715965968
hey the ethics department finally did something

It's really pathetic how shazamfags are still trying to discredit a game that's already had immense financial, critical and general sentiment success

>>715950834 (OP)
Final Fantasy hasn't been good in 24 years. Rebirth actually ended up being surprisingly solid, but that's an outlier. It's time to move on. Atlus has been carrying JRPGs for two decades

>>715966721
I don't think even the brownest shill would argue Rebirth had any sort of financial success with 2 million sales.

>>715966721
The tortanic fags were there for the first 48 hours posting the negro NPCs you stop seeing 10 minutes in, but they moved on quickly. The long term shitposting is contrarians plus Indians.

>>715950834 (OP)
Turns out good games take personality and soul.

Ahem....
FUCK CHADLEY

That's all folks, thanks for your attention

>>715954956
Never

>>715966548
Oh they're very active Anon!

>>715966976
RIP Lucien

>>715965968
e33 has more niggers and diversity than rebirth your retarded ape

>>715969515
>your retarded ape
saarrr

>>715956571
>Armored Core 6 is the same as the previous games

Stop reading there

>>715950834 (OP)
E33 is aimed mostly at high-intelligence straight white men, which is why it generates so much brown/tranny rage on this board.

>>715950834 (OP)
shhh you'll upset the darkies

>>715970580
this
>>715969515
LOL
LMAO EVEN
fucking neck yourself you lying cocksucker

>>715966234
Wow, I didn’t get a response. Seems HE was the one that didn’t want to engage in good faith. Shocking.

E33 isn't woke but it's not anti-woke either. The story is mature in a good way, it's interesting and philosophical. It manages to balance serious with funny without making it silly, in contrast to most japanese or marvel inspired comedy.

>>715971962
It's the same exact kind of childish, shallow emotional manipulation you can find in Final Fantasy or Yoko Taro's garbage, but fr*nch and therefor hairier and smellier

>>715972146
It really isn't. I'd love to get a recommendation from you for a game with a good story though, I'm on the look for something to play.

>>715950834 (OP)
Both BG3 and Expedition 33 are anomalies that shouldn't be consider the norm.
It's not healthy for gamers to have high impossible expectations.

>>715972376
I really don't think bg3's writing is comparable to e33. It's not great, it's alright for a video game. Obviously it is much harder to have tight writing when there's a shit ton of it and a lot of it is just side quests etc.

>>715950834 (OP)
Larian and the frog Nepobaby company aren't fucking indie devs.

>>715952504
Bioware was literally killed by their 'woke' staff like "trick" weekes.

>>715972905
Yeah, bioware was woke for a long time but they went more and more in that direction and it went completely over the top eventually. Even in DA:O there's problems with wokeness like everyone being a homo for example, but it wasn't as in your face as it became eventually.

>>715972614
BG3 writing is functional and dynamic since it needs to work like a CRPG with choices, it also has to be dramatic or quirky to appeal to women. It could be better (see: Bloodliness, Disco Elysium) but it works for what it is.

E33 writing is basically on par with a C-Tier anime.

>>715964998
That only goes to show that E33 sales numbers would be seen as abysmal by Squeenix standards. They want to be selling tens of millions like CDPR and Larian.

I REALLY preferred the initial expedition theme and vibe and the moment the story turned into family drama of the Painters it took a nosedive sadly.

>>715963986
The last good Ubisoft game was Rayman Legends and you can tell they that Michel Ancel had a lot of freedom alongside a talented team. If E33 was made inside Ubisoft they would have had a lot more constrains and would have made safer choices, ending up as a another Child of Light. They couldn't have hired some random SoundCloud musician for example. The risks they took as an independent company allowed them to make something more memorable.

>>715973140
Wait until you learn what a video game budget is.

>>715973328
>400 developers
>indie

>>715973324
It's kinda sad that Ubisoft destroyed their reputation so bad because they have a lot of classics and amazing foundational games that a good portion of snobs dismiss just for being Ubi games.

>>715950834 (OP)
This is the curse of CEOs who don't know how to talk to shareholders and have turned everything into a big scam.

Instead of saying:
>we have a good formula here that will maintain a loyal consumer base that will continue to consume our products, keeping our brand strong, which will eventually cause a game to explode in popularity every few years, guaranteeing even greater returns

They say:
>We studied Fortnite and that other game whose name I forgot but which is making trillions, and we're going to apply the same thing to our famous series, which will totally attract billions of young and radical gamers who will increase our revenue by 5000%, much of it profit because we'll be selling digital products that are just bits that cost nothing to produce and distribute! You'll be swimming in money I swear! You'll all have mansions and sports cars like me, who earns 50 million a year for ruining established games, LOL!

>>715973398
>developers

>>715973035
>everyone being a homo
Alistair certainly wasn't. Only Leliana and Zevran were as far as I recall and they were biscum.

>>715974459
For some reason I thought Alistair was gay, I guess it was pretty amazing back in DA:O then.

>>715964998
>>715962903
>>715957403

>>715967559
In the ass?

>>715950834 (OP)
Dos3 and E33 are millenialcore shit, these embarrassing emby games are going to be laughed at so hard in the future, like everything else millenial.

>>715950834 (OP)
>Imagine being Bioware and Square Enix right now.
They don't care, they are not here to make what people want, they are there to "force change" and push the "new normal".

Final Fantasy is a has-been franchise. Recent census data shows that in japan the average age of an FF fan is 42. 42!

>>715950834 (OP)
>Sandfall
>indie
Lol. Lmao even.

>>715973398
a large majority of the credits are for QA, porting, and musicians. Actual devs are like 42 including the outsourced korean animators

>>715951214
FPBP


Also, Square-Enix fails to realize that most people want Fantasy in their Final. While 16's combat was decent and could be expanded and made better, people are tired of medieval settings and would prefer something akin to either FF7's diesel punk or X's.

>>715975713
Im sure the retards following the tranny in charge, that jumped boats, care a lot right about now

>>715975181
Shitters on their knees.

Real big-cuck energy here.

>>715975713
This. Investor money + the message is all they care about.

>>715959549
It's actually crazy how focused and coherent E33 is both in plot and theme, right up until the very end.

>>715960180
>the big money is in the world's largest consumer market
yeah, no shit

>>715962402
This man speaks the truth.

>>715975897
really?
kek source?

>>715955805
Have you seen the Splatoon player base?

>>715957403
It took several years to reach those figures.

The real problem going on with SE's games isn't the the abandonment of turn-based combat, but the excessive weeb cringe and campiness that's present throughout nearly all of their mainline games. People can't relate to it anymore, nor do they want to relate to it anymore. I think many of their recent games would be better if they utilized a full-on celshaded anime art style, rather than the uncanny-valley semi-realism look of everything they've done since the PS2 days.

>>715981042
The real issue is that their action combat is shallow and for some reason never gets quite as complex as kingdom hearts 2

>>715981042
I completely and unironically blame Nomura.
I have no idea who gave a pretty good concept artist a lead creative role.

>>715981042

I remember playing Valkyria Chronicles for the first time and thinking "oh this is probably what anime games are going to look like in the future". How wrong I was.

>>715977312
>testers, programmers and musicians aren't workers
Post nose.