video games will never be considered art

>>715962035 (OP)
Why coudn't this pic just use images of said things instead of burger ingredients

As long as video games are created by committee with restrictive freedoms then yes, they will never be art.

>food analogy

video games are already considered art
your personal definition of art as a finery is meaningless

Roger Ebert should lay off the fatty foods.

>>715962035 (OP)
think of great painters, writers, composers. you could probably name a few off the top of your head. now think of great game developers, can you even name any? now think of their works, are they comparable to the works of great artists?

Art is worthless if it doesn’t bring you pleasure. Video games are pleasurable.
Games don’t need to be art to be good.

>>715962035 (OP)
>Food analogy
Terrible one as well.

Same thing with AI generated images, it doesn’t matter, nothing changes whether it’s art or not, they can be called shmooblies or buzzlepops. A rose by any other name etc

>food analogy
>BURGER analogy

>>715962035 (OP)
Of course they arent
Video games are fascism

Honestly
Now I just want a burger

>>715962035 (OP)
Art is a singular expression from one person.
Video games are a product created by multiple people for nothing more than profit.
You can have the best artists around making fantastic pieces of concept art or texture work that would stand up on their own as art.
But the moment you throw that in to a mess of other elements and people's input on a product then the whole does not take on the status of it's parts.

Simply put, video games can never be art because their entire existence is to make profit and be entertainment.
Rather than an expression of the person making it each single element.

As long as you hold it as art, it's art. Even the act of exposing a previously existing object as art gives it artistic intent! Of course video games are art.

>artfags

>>715963052
>their entire existence is to make profit and be entertainment.
just like movies, painting, music, etc

>>715962035 (OP)
i could go for that hamburger. it looks delicious

>>715962035 (OP)
Art is not a product.
Games are products.
Mass produced paintings are not art, they're decorations, products.

>>715962612
yes, why can't you?

>>715962612
Yeah and yeah. Meme on Hideo Kojima all you want but he assrapes fags like Banksy

>>715963052
>Implying Michelangelo painted the Sistine chapel by himself, for free

>>715962612
Yes and yes.

>>715962035 (OP)
Truke. Men who made games for the last 50 years always knew this. There was never an argument until reddit existed

>>715962035 (OP)
lmao who cares?

Explain to me how this is art.

Why would you care about what a dude with a fucked up mandible from sucking so much cock says? lol

>>715962429
This is an american website. Food analogies are the best pick.

>>715963687
When you see a toilet in a bathroom, you think "that's a toilet" and that's it.
When you see a toilet on an art gallery, you think "what's that doing there?" and then, if you are able to get past a knee-jerk rejection of 'THAT'S NOT ART WHATS IT DOING IN THE ART BUILDING', you can elaborate further and think things like "what differentiates art objects from other objects?"
After all, someone made this toilet, after all. it's mass produced, but prints can be mass produced, and they're still art. is a toilet that is being displayed different to one I am meant to use? What does one feel when seeing a toilet randomly in the middle of a room while walking around an art gallery, that they don't feel when i see it in a bathroom when they're going to take a piss? And so on. The object has not changed, but your reaction to it has, and so it has become meaningfully different. This is art.

>>715963687
It became art as soon as it was displayed.

>>715962035 (OP)
>boomer with nothing but horrible takes
Its satisfying gen Z and everyone else have no idea who that is.

>>715963052
Andy Worhol was commenting on the "factory" nature of the art world in the 60's. It was his whole thing.
Literally painting cans of soup and stuff to tell people "you're buying a product, bro".

Also, good job pretending freeware games and passion projects don't exist.

>>715962198
>>715962429
>>715962694
>>715962803

disliking food analogies is pretentious. the entire purpose of an analogy is to explain and clarify a concept and your complaint is that what? food analogies are too basic? that's the entire point you ass.

>>715964032
No, it's just self reporting as being an american.

>>715963840
I mean that's certainly a statement but it's not a very original one.

>>715963052
The funny thing is that most modern art like >>715963165 requires the contextualization of its surroundings to function as art. On its own, it looks like a vague image of a window staring out into the sunset, but in its gallery it composites with its surroundings to make something aesthetically pleasing.

>>715962035 (OP)
if fucking dancing and theater can be considered an art form then games are art

>>715964145
it was closer to one in 1917
obviously not so much anymore

can interactiveness be art? i notice it was left out of op.

>>715964192
it's better without the context, your picture looks like shit

>>715964213
You do one better than that. There are literally forms of art that are immersive, and require audience participation.
Remember Shia Labouf putting a bag on his head, and inviting people to molest him, or whatever that whole thing was?

>>715963687
skibidi

>>715964268
It is. Vidya is just interactive art, regardless of what anyone says.

How many football fields worth of cheeseburgers do I have to pay for one "authentic real art" so that a portion gets donated to buy AIDS medication for impoverished turdworlders? (Non-Americans)

https://interactiveimmersive.io/blog/interactive-media/interactive-art-examples/
naysayers outed as being artlets, yet again.

>>715963687
Asking how it's art is exactly the kind of question the people who do these things are trying to elicit.
They have the answer ready.

Instead, say "this is lame" and walk away from the inevitable seethe.

>>715962035 (OP)
nu games are definitely not art. or are jew art, lmaoo

>>715964978
>Asking how it's art is exactly the kind of question the people who do these things are trying to elicit
if i leave my bike in the park and film all the niggers who come to steal it is it art?

>>715964032
shut up fattie

>>715962035 (OP)
Jaw-dropping claim

>>715962035 (OP)
why would you want games to be art?
you think people won't look at you weirdly when you play your switch in public?

>>715963165
>>715964192
On one hand I agree
>>715964283
On the other hand anon is still correct, if your art is in a fucking musuem have some actual fucking skill or craft or point. I could draw a speck on a wall and call it "us and the universe" and write a whole ass paragraph about how its meant to represent how we're a tiny speck and people would shit themselves over it.

>>715962035 (OP)
All of those are in video games, OP

>>715962035 (OP)
>dude it's art because it throws a load of shit together!
the same retarded logic that leads you to thinking having an in-door pool and go-kart track in a house makes it the best, even though it makes the house smell like chlorine and gas

Movies aren't art, so Flickfags have to deflect onto games.

>>715962035 (OP)
Project Nortubel

>>715964032
food analogies = reddit

>>715962035 (OP)
Not the gotcha you think it is, since a lot of people are ready to argue fast foods are less than a sum of their parts and would rather call it "slop" than food.

>>715968298
>food analogies = reddit
Said the brownie

>>715962612
>Is the creative output of Hidetaka Miyazaki as valuable as the creative output of Andy Warhol
I'm gonna go with yes

>>715968654
Can you make a single post that isn't a food analogy?

>>715968298
>>715964120
>>715965613
>starving is 4chan, and brownpilled!

>>715963197
Most movies aren't art, dumbass.

Hes so fucking ugly, ugly ahh white/jewish guy, why are white americans Jews so dysgenic

Having a strict definition of art is the ultimate pseudointellectual litmus test.

>>715968920
Are you making a joke or do you not know what i mean?

>>715968473
>what is home-made [anything]
Anything can be fast food, if it's at a fast food restaurant with fast food prep.

>>715962035 (OP)
Lettuce does not belong on a burger. You get the same experience as putting a piece of paper on your burger as you do lettuce.

>>715969245
>Compares crisp watery lettuce to paper
If you actually struggled with veggies growing up, you might have a problem.

>>715964192
Modern art is trash
The only "Artistic" elements of these pieces are the mental gymnastics employed to justify their existence. They have no marketable value beyond money laundering so to put them on a pedestal is to mock human creative pursuit as an endeavour, which was the intention. What we now call the "Art world" has been stolen by rich posers who do not have the talent to compare to the actual creative powerhouses who historically built their institution, so have instead dedicated themselves to tearing down that institution to save face

Giving even a grain of respect to these usurpers who claim the label of Art for themselves is an insult to actual creatives

>>715962035 (OP)
Define art

heres your art bro

>>715969386
The fun part is that they were originally meant to mock stuffy institutions, then they became one in under a hundred years.

>>715969643
OOOOOOOOH
BUH-NA-NAAAA

well, what about the "game" portion of video game? cause you could say the music, story, painting etc is art but the fundamental part of a "video game", the game itself is not art.

>>715969897
>the game itself is not art.
yes it is

>>715969090
he had jaw cancer, that's why his lower face is so weird
he died btw

>>715962035 (OP)
Yes, the final product is not art. Developing a game is an artform, the game itself is not a piece of art. This is not hard to understand at all. Hell, /v/ is the one that gets the pissiest when games try to be more than just a product of pure consumption entertainment. Stop being so insecure about what you demand.

>>715970185
you can say anything is an art and people do so I guess it's a meaningless term or you're going to have to reject some of the things people claim is art. I've never heard of chess or a sport being called an art, though obviously someone somewhere would have called it that.

>>715962612
video games have only existed for 70 years compared to the 10,000+ those other categories have, and vidya already has more worthwhile art than most of those categories.

>>715962035 (OP)

It's neat to think that his pet genre (movies) definitely had washed up old faggots saying that its not art when it was invented. Also his face looks like a butthole.

There's only a few games ever in existence that can be classified as art, and it's the few that transcend entertainment while still being entertaining, to properly meld everything else about itself in with the gameplay and not limit itself by its challenge and yet still be a challenge to complete. Something that doesn't just navigate how the inherent nature of a video game works against it being art, but instead synthesizes with it.

It's a very short list that basically just says "Rain World"

>>715962035 (OP)
Stupid thread

>>715962035 (OP)
the very thing that makes games games, interactivity, is exactly what strips them of their artistic value
even in a Ueda game which is generally considered to be an 'art game', I'm free to just spin in circles or leave the game running overnight which makes it inherently silly

>>715964192
no that still looks like a laundering scheme

>>715970745
>I'm free to just spin in circles or leave the game running overnight which makes it inherently silly
And the creative performance of you being silly would be considered art

>>715970745
Why is he holding his gun by the nozzle in the second frame?

>>715962035 (OP)
See, this faggot grew up at a time when movies were considered art. But before his time, people would have been sneering at the idea.
He's just the old fart sneering at the new media because he doesn't understand it.
Also because modern vidya is so shit I currently agree with him.

>>715969090
Imagine basedfacing 24/7 lol

>>715970951
Yeah, but the game surrounding his performance wouldn't be

>>715962035 (OP)
The only people who pretend to care if vidya is art or not are the ones who are looking to benefit from it.

>>715965476
Only if you make a comic about it.

>>715962035 (OP)
>>715969090
>>715970532
>>715971135
It honestly makes me really happy that this jawless faggot died of cancer

>>715962612
projecting pretty hard

>>715962035 (OP)
>videogames will never be a medium for wealthy degenerate leftists to launder money
oh... okay, then

>>715962035 (OP)
But that's GREAT, it means it is repellent to the pretentious.

Games being considered art is the reason why there are six hour video essays on games that took less than half an hour to beat. This is also why you hear the word 'content' so much when talking about a game and the rise of interactive movie games, anything to make it less than what it is; entertainment. You can put effort in your entertainment, in all elements of a game, but it's still entertainment and should stay as such. Being 'art' leads to shit like Braid, FEZ and the respective creators being too far up their own asses about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXofLK5hFQ

>Cinematography isn't games
>Painting and sculpting aren't games
>Architecture isn't games
>Storytelling isn't games
>Music isn't games
Video games are games.
I can't wait for summer to be fucking over

>>715970745
>pause movie midway through, go to bed
>main character stands motionless all throughout the night
>wake up, hit the play button
>main character continues on as normal despite the fact that he would have died after having stood perfectly still for 10 hours without breathing
Explain how this is any different to video games
>ERM, JUST BECAUSE HE WAS STANDING STILL FOR 10 HOURS ON YOUR TV, THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE ALSO STOOD STILL FOR 10 HOURS WITHIN THE NARRATIVE OF THE FILM!
That also applies to video games

>>715962035 (OP)
Video Games not being ART is good thing though.

>>715970745
>interactivity means it isn't art
interactivity can be used to elicit an aesthetic experience just like a painter uses color, which makes it capable of being used in an art piece

>>715970745
>Going into a random shop and saying "COOL."
Kek, a movie of the average Morrowind playthrough would be weeks long and would be full of this shit.
>And so, the Nerevarine went on his mighty quest, and had to attend a secret meeting in the library of Vivec
>Cuts to six hours of the Nerevarine aimlessly wandering Vivec and talking to literally everyone he sees
>Goes into every shop and house of this monstrosity of a city
>"cool"
>"cool"
>"cool"
>"cool, also yes I will ask around about this leaflet"
>cool"

>>715962035 (OP)
>Video games are art!
Okay, let's subject them to critical analysis then
>RRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEE SJW FEMINIST KIKE
Games will never be taken seriously as art

>>715962612
kojima comes to mind even though I've never played his games. you need to be at least somewhat prolific to be a great artist and game development is way more expensive than it is to paint a picture, write, or compose

>>715963052
So animation is not art? Cinema is not art? A band or orchestra: doesn't make art? I think you should rethink your terms here, this is pretty sloppy even by 4chan standards.

>>715964145
The Fountain is nearly a century old at this point. You gotta start somewhere, that stuff was brand new at the time.

>>715970745
>go to gallery
>refuse to open my eyes
heh guess it wasn't art after all.

oh nooooo people who don't engage with my hobby will have an ignorant opinion of it whatever shall I doooooo

>>715962035 (OP)
Architecture is autism.

>>715971391
the reason all of that is different is because the content fundamentally doesn't change, when you press play again it will still act out the same way it was intended by the director
I can't make Bruce Willis spin around for 10 hours in Die Hard but I can do that kind of thing in games and the game director has zero control over it

>>715971495
a painter uses color to create a final unchanging result of a painting, the user doesn't have freedom to change what colors are used in a master painting

>>715969643
The sheer amount of seething this one piece inspired makes it worth it.

>>715962612
Think of the best painters, writers and composers of the first 70 years of their medium

Pitch them against Kojima

I think Kojima comes off ahead of cave paintings, tribal drumming and whatever is the cinema equivalent of that

>>715971375
Braid and Fez are good games tho.

>>715962612
sam houser and obviously

>>715971203
If I made an "Art exhibition" in the Tate where I lay out some bullshit along with a sign which invites spectators to come into the bullshit and act silly, that would be considered High Art
If I did the same thing on Youtube it would be considered slop

The only difference is the veneer of legitimacy provided by a legacy institution, and when you understand that you realise that all modern art is an appeal to the authority of an ethereal concept of Art. A concept upheld up by the lingering reputations of a web of institutions which lay a claim to the word as if it were their intellectual property and prop up each other's legitimacy despite long having lost any of the objective talent or value which might have built that legitimacy

I never cared about what qualifies as art. Most films/books that are considered auetur classics are pretentious drivel made by self important dildos or people who were trolling the world by making obnoxious garbage that was then lauded as brilliant (Terrance Malik and Finnegan's Wake, for example). I care about having fun and enjoying myself. Fuck everyone else

>>715964192
the fuck is visually pleasing about this?

>>715962035 (OP)
video games is art
it's just that there are no video games artists

>>715964032
Half the world are either too dimwitted or too autistic to actually understand analogies. So when they come onto a debate, and encounter an analogy, they get perplexed. confusion leads to frustration, as they can't put together what you're saying. They feel like you're lying or manipulating somehow, since they can't see what you're doing.

After they encounter such confusing and frustrating situations many times, they learn to counter it by shaming the user. If they can push the idea that "analogies are bad actually", then they can prevent becoming confused in arguments.

>>715971973
Yet their creators and their fanboys are some of the most insufferable people on the planet, mainly the Braidfags calling it revolutionary and losing their shit when Soulja Boy was fucking around with the time mechanic in a two minute video. All the journalists crying about him being misogynistic and unable to comprehend art were a dime a dozen back then. Never mind Phil and FEZ.

Good games can be tarnished by their fans and creators.

>>715968710
true andy warhol would be pumping out ai slop if he were alive today

>>715971786
>the content fundamentally doesn't change, when you press play again it will still act out the same way it was
Why is leaving a game running overnight and then picking it up and continuing through it as normal a "fundamental change in content", but not making the main character in a movie stand still for 10 hours by hitting pause?

>>715962612
Carmack
Yamaoka
Suda
Mikami
Soule
Sawyer
Silverman
Miyamoto

Just off top of my head.

>cake requires an egg to make
>there a cake is an egg!

>>715962612
>Miyazaki, Dark Souls
>Hideo Kojims, Metal Gear Solid
>Marty O'Donnell, Halo
>Nikolay Dybowski, The Void
>Andrew Prokhorov, Metro 2033
>Todd Howard, Skyrim
The John's Carmack and Romero, fucking DOOM.
WHAT IS YOUR MALFUNCTION ANON?

>>715972265
>Good games can be tarnished by their fans and creators
Flat out untrue. Unless they go back and edit the game to be worse, the game is the game and the creator is the creator. Only a gay faggot would look at something that simply isn't in the work itself at all and believe it "tarnishes the work".

>>715962035 (OP)
Collage is inherently artistic
You're trying to make the "art museum" argument (popularized by kojimbo) that video games contain art, but aren't art themselves but the buger analogy doesn't even work because eating a burger is inherently different than eating all the ingredients individually in sequence.
The difference between an art museum and a collage is that in a collage, the combination and composition of the individual components IS the art whereas in an art museum the art all stands on its own and the museum is just a mechanism for preservation/collection/profit/etc.
In a video game the ways the various artistic mediums (music, cinematography, etc.) Interact with each other and the core game design is an important part of the experience, so Vidya is closer to collage than an art museum.

>>715972104
fuck off slopfag

>>715971786
I can reverse and fast forward Bruce Willis to make him look like he's doing a silly dance. I can pause Bruce Willis in the middle of dialogue to make him sound silly

>>715972317
Carmack is a technical engineering genius not a creative, what he built was impressive but it was not artistic

>>715972024
God, who the fuck asked, you retard

>>715972462
...you're an artfag, aren't you?
Phil?

who cares what these people think
theres been multiple instances of people just leaving random objects in the museum and the fart sniffing retards who go there often will tell you the pineapple on the table has some profound meaning

>>715972684
I don't need your fucking permission

>>715972290
pressing start or esc to pause a game is the same as pausing a film, I have no real issue with that
the issue is that I can only make one of them idle for 10 hours of real-time and have it essentially be canon to that story, and I can only spin in circles for 10 hours in one of them

>>715972589
you're not getting it. you might be able to make it look like those things are happening by rewinding or whatever, but you still can't force Bruce Willis to actually do a silly dance or run into a wall or spin in circles for 10 hours in Die Hard in the same way you can in a game
like I said, only in games can you actively rip control away from the director and instantly make it seem retarded right from the moment you have control
video games demand that you constantly agree to take it seriously

>>715964032
>>715962035 (OP)
You are invalid because I have eaten a burger that I would call art. It was so delicious it redefined what I believe a burger to be. I cried.

>>715972684
Are you sure you're old enough to be posting here?

>>715972767
What you need is some fucking relevance, retard. Rambling ass old man that's just saying shit in his head completely unrelated to what other people are talking about or how they come to their conclusions. You're a feckless dreg that's replying to people for no reason, and you should kill yourself.

>>715972938
If you think that post was unrelated you're too dumb for this thread

>>715969514
ART is when someone manifests what is within their soul through creativity, when they dont stray from what they truly wish to make during the creation process.
it is made with no greater intent than to simply convey what resides within, true art could even be considered an extension of oneself as it is the purest expression of (you)
true art, when you engage with it, is able to make you think and feel the way the author does even if only for a moment.
this does not mean that someone making a thing that tries to tell you how you should feel is art, of course. quite the opposite. when someone does that it does not come from the soul, and is muddied with purpose not rooted in the desire to draw fourth what's within.
something as simple as a child's drawing, or as grand as a massive cathedral. they can both be art, the only two requirements are that they come from the soul and are not shackled by a "greater purpose" that interrupts this process.
the same is true for videogames.

if you cannot understand and agree with this then there is no point in trying to further convince you, for you will never be able to understand what art truly is.

>>715972928
>>715972938
Nevermind, I got my answer.

>>715970745
I disagree and your reasoning is fucking absurd. Interactivity does not preclude something from being art. If I create a beautiful puzzle using metallic rods and rings does it suddenly lose its artistic intention because I intended for someone to interact with it? They could jingle it around like a toddler with a toy but that doesn't make it any less of a piece of art. It never ceases to amaze me that the people who legitimately don't believe video games can be art are always pretentious cocksuckers.

Video games are games, stop being pretentious. Pushing games as art often comes at the cost of text and cut scene bloat when the whole point of the game is the game.

>>715972265
>Good games can be tarnished by their fans and creators.
When I play a game, the only thing I care about is the experience I am having from start to end.
I give every game the benefit of the doubt. Leave pre-conceived notions about the genre, the creator, themes, etc. at the doorstep.

>>715962035 (OP)
The correct usage is "an art" or "arts", "art" by itself is a term used to demean the arts and turn them into nothing but subjective slop without any standards.

>>715973164
the gameplay is just as much part of the art as the music and cutscenes

>>715972879
> you might be able to make it look like those things are happening by rewinding or whatever, but you still can't force Bruce Willis to actually do a silly dance or run into a wall or spin in circles for 10 hours in Die Hard in the same way you can in a game
There's no difference

> video games demand that you constantly agree to take it seriously
No they don't, also irrelevant

>>715962035 (OP)
semantics are boring, try talking about something interesting

>>715963687
in this case, the "art" is the action of fleecing retards into thinking low effort irl shitposting is something valueable. He is an artist as in a con artist.

>>715973164
You misunderstand the point. Retarded faggots like Ebert believe that video games inherently can never be art. Nobody smart pushes the theory that all video games are art, but instead the belief is that video games CAN be art. Would you consider a marvel film art? There are artistic elements to it the same way ubishit games have artistic elements to them despite being what they are. Video games are games, but they can also be art.

>>715973457
Semantics can be important as they shape the way you can even think about something in the first place. The fact that people managed to so utterly degrade the term art to the point where people think whether or not taking a shit on a canvas is just semantics just goes to show how easily you can deprave culture and society through mere semantics.

>>715973623
just use a different term, it doesn't matter

>>715973623
>to the point where people think whether or not taking a shit on a canvas is just semantics
The interesting question was never if shitting on a canvas is or is not a three letter word, the interesting question is who has been paying for people to shit on canvasses and then display them in a prestigious exhibition and why

>>715972879
You're a dumb cunt. The ability to do something silly with a piece of art does not invalidate the art itself.
How would you feel if you hadn't eaten breakfast this morning?

>>715973610
> Nobody smart pushes the theory that all video games are art
You fundamentally so not understand what art even is

> Would you consider a marvel film art?
Yes. And the only reason anyone would consider it anything but art is if they insist on a bunch of arbitrary qualifiers that have nothing to do with whether it is fundamentally a work of art. The irony is that you art naysayers are being just as pretentious as the people that make art pieces out of a banana

>>715962612
There are certainly 3D modelers who do work as good as the great painters. Was Da Vinci rendering individual pores?

>>715962035 (OP)
video games are art fags:
>has no idea what cinematography is outside of youtube essays made by teenagers about popular low-quality films because they think cinema = capeshit
>only listens to videogame osts which are legally distinct forms of came-and-went 80s music trends because they think music = normies & beethoven
>has no grasp of architecture because they think architecture = tsutomu nihei so anytime someone puts a giant concrete slab they think ""woahhh good architecture"
>has no grasp of storytelling because they think made-for-tv netflix dramas = story extremely likely they will never advance in reading beyond percy jackson or whatever edgelord makes them look smart like nietzche and will probably lose interest in this post because its character count is larger than 200.

This is the same crowd that says "I only eat hamburgers because they've got a little bit of everything, veggies, protein, calcium" fucking retarded.

>>715972998
>you're too dumb for this thread
Says the retard making a single digit IQ leap in association just because of a vague throughline of other people in an entirely different context qualifying whether something is art, completely unrelated to how I or anyone else is coming to their judgement, but go ahead: continue to talk AT anons instead of with them.

>>715971786
>a painter uses color to create a final unchanging result of a painting, the user doesn't have freedom to change what colors are used in a master painting
so? why does something have to be immutable to be considered art?

>>715972879
>the issue is that I can only make one of them idle for 10 hours of real-time and have it essentially be canon to that story, and I can only spin in circles for 10 hours in one of them
It's not cannon in a video game either. Just like how nobody comments that the main character stood perfectly still for 10 hours in a film after pausing for a long time, if I leave say, an RPG running overnight while I am stood in front of an NPC, if I then talk to that NPC they don't comment on how I just stood still for several hours, because canonically I didn't, even if that's what's depicted on my screen. Films also require a similar suspension of disbelief for when you press pause or rewind, as well as for many other aspects which don't require interaction and are baked into the film (intermissions, time skips, vfx limitations, etc). But you have arbitrarily applied this standard of "art must not allow for silly/unwanted events as deemed by the creator to occur as a result of audience interaction", when films and TV shows would also fail to meet this standard (as well as other forms of art like theatre and opera since you can heckle the actors, or any kind of art displayed in a gallery as >>715971710 pointed out)

>>715962429
fpbp

>>715974059
You fundamentally misunderstood my post.

>>715974126
You think most "art appreciators" know the first thing about how art is made?
I've met art students. Most of them are mongs who think Banksy is a thing of value.

>>715973164
me lying and saying games aren't art isn't going to stop the next pretentious dev from making something stupid.

>>715973164
>i-if we let people say games are art, then games will be ruined!
This is such bizarre concern trolling. Movies being a recognised art form don't stop you getting your latest Fast and Furious movie.

>>715969339
>implying it’s crisp and watery
>not soggy as fuck
I like veggies on my burger, just ones that actually add to the burger.

>>715972668
>basically when no one still could figure out how to make cameras at all, he came up with the best camera possible (before Kojima) to make the perfect film he wanted
Trying to separate the technical aspect of the vidya from vidya itself is exactly why no one understands why the vidya can be art. It's nothing like the retarded OP-pic where you just slap multiple "art" things together.

>>715974147
>continue to talk AT anons instead of with them
If you want people to talk with you then you need to have something worthwhile to say

>>715970745
>>715964948

>>715973964
hungry

>>715962198
Because likewise even if a burger uses ingredients that individually you would call healthy, the general opinion has that they are not.
Same with vidya, individually all the things in OPs image are considered art but being under the label of "videogame" has chuds thing it's not any different than their first experience with Pac-Man/Tetris and write them off as such.

Art is literally just whatever an artist says it is, and most professional artists are knowing conning morons out of cash
So yes, video games are easily art.
How are we still having this argument? Roger Ebert wasn't even a good movie critic. He was a slop salesman for television viewers to gawk at.

>art is slop
so are you

>>715974916
Most art is slop, yes. Most of everything is slop.

>>715974617
> Because likewise even if a burger uses ingredients that individually you would call healthy, the general opinion has that they are not.
The more accurate analogy would be saying a burger is, in and of itself, not food, just a combination of food items

>>715963687
My dumbass thought that was a painting and I was actually admiring how well it is painted but it is actually just a fucking urinal the fuck is this

>>715974948
>this part of the ocean has too much water
>this other part of the ocean also has too much water
fix it then

>>715975063
why contain it?

Video games may never be art because total faggots like Neil Dreckmann would come bustling in to crown himself the King of Video Games (Art) the moment it begins to legitimize itself in the cultural zeitgeist. This zombifoed jew-infested industry does not need more people like David Cage in it, making terrible third-person walking simulators as an interactive excuse to discuss fag marriage or whatever Current Thing is.

>>715975293
The problem is that evil people can't create, all they can do is sabotage and undermine and mock people who can. Evil people always need unlimited amounts of capital because they can't succeed on merit.

retards shit on a piece of paper and call it art. anything is art if someone says it is of modern art isnt art at all.

Reminder that Ebert shat his pants and backpedaled at the prospect of actually having to play a video game to substantiate his opinion.

>>715975579
turns out manchildren become very muslim when you attack their golden calf of "[thing for kids] is actually... le grown up"

>>715962035 (OP)
>Plays a random adventure game once and immediately changes his entire stance and dies with his last words being "Actually video games are pretty cool."

>>715970745
/thread

>make music, it's art
>make a video, it's also art
>make a music video, erm, that's not art only the parts that make it up are art

You cannot untangle the semantic argument about "What is Art?" from the discussion of the Art world as an institution and the mythos they have attempted to build around the word, because ultimately the only reason you care about whether something is ART or not is because you've bought into the Art institution lore that Art is something inherently valuable and impressive, a mark of great culture and the trappings of high society. If you weren't enthralled by that idea then you wouldn't care about that three letter word. That idea has been implanted in you by people and organisations who have benefitted from the strength of Art as a brand and so any intelligent discussion on this topic should pivot to discussing Art as an institution

>can't discuss art because jewish golems crawl out the mud "nothing.... is art.... except... million dollar butthole canvases"

>>715964032
It's because an analogy is supposed to demonstrate how your point aligns with other, more easily grasped facts of the world; "it works like x in the same way [common thing] works like x". It serves both to intuitively explain the concept and corroborate it.

When you use something like food, unless your analogy is based only on objective, observable facts (such as "fugu fish can easily be deadly if a small mistake is made in preparation"), then you're trying to back up your point with something that can only be considered true as a matter of opinion. So really, it's not "food" analogies that are the problem, but rather taste analogies. "Doing it x way is like having well done steak with ketchup" just invites the response "but steak is better that way, FAGGOT", and the debate becomes purely subjective, making the analogy no better than saying "It's good/bad because I said so."

>>715970745
that just means you have a low IQ

>>715964032
Even putting aside the fact it's a food analogy, it's a fucking retarded analogy that doesn't make sense.

>>715972239
/thread

>>715975678
Ebert would happily defend an actual child's movie as being a work of art, so moot point.

>>715962612
notch

>>715976729
is the movie good? mind you a child's movie is significanly higher artistic merit than elden ring.

>>715975880
Personally, it's entirely semantic. The word "art" means nothing to me on the emotional level. I just fundamentally think games are it.
If movies art, if music is, if comic books are, then of course games are. Stands to reason.

>>715962035 (OP)
>creative medium
>not art

a tale as old as time

what next, books arent art cuz anyone literate can write some?

>he doesn't think Mortal Kombat is art? I'm glad he needed surgery and died from cancer!

why are gamers so childish and pathetic?

>>715964032
I like how you took the term "food analogy" and addressed the part of the term (analogy) that isn't the problem (food).

>>715976809
>the minions movie is of higher merit than Okami or Pikmin
Not really, no

>>715976990
We're exercising artistic expression

>>715962035 (OP)
Video games are art but they're not high art because they don't exploit the main characteristic of the media (interactivity) very well, and almost everyone working on em is fighting it instead of trying to make it better.

>>715962350
inb4 Sistine Chapel art

>>715977114
"High art" is a meaningless term invented by pretentious fags

Ebert had an NES and actually liked some of the early video game movies

>>715977114
Based on what? Creative expression is a huge part of several genres. Even fighting games.

>>715977018
>look up the three plots
>okami: fight the bad guy
>pikmin: build the ship
>minions movie: IN ANCIENT TIMES THERE EXISTED AN IMMORTAL RACE SHACKLED TO ETERNITY AIMLESSLY ROAMING EXISTENCE IN PURUSIT OF A MASTER
i really hope you're not dying on this hill

>>715977328
It's not an "even", fighting games are one of the few genres that kinda try by necessity to make gameplay better.
Most of em just try to lock the player to a rail as much as possible to make a movie story work on it.

>>715977490
Minions would only be art if they canonized that they worked for hitler.

>>715962035 (OP)
seeing as gamers can only think in terms of ecelebrity quotes, this one image ends all discussion

Because you can speedrun and minmax games. This thought is anathema to art. Simple as.

>>715977490
>being a plotfag
Well, you clearly don't get art, to begin with.
It's all about the emotions these games stir up in you.
>Okami - joy, nostalgia for a Japan you never experienced, awe at the beauty of nature
>Pikmin - terror, desperation, triumph, and grief, perceiving the bare faced cruelty of the food chain

>>715977664
That's not "most games". That's specifically Sony cinematic slop.
You people don't even play games, and you deign to talk about them.

>>715975876
>apple is a fruit
>orange is a fruit
>peach is a fruit
>melon is a fruit
>so fruit salad must be a fruit!
die retard

>>715978010
fruitiness isn't a transitive property, är is

>>715977861
i can speedpaint a painting, speedread a book, watch a movie on 10x speed, and minmax my route through an art museum to see the most paintings possible

umad slowfag?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYwWuqhz-zw

>>715977742
porn is art

>>715978010
If someone told you they ate fruit and they had in fact eaten a fruit salad, would you call them a liar and say they had not eaten fruit?

>>715962612
Yes, and they supersede most instances of art, yes.

>cinematography is art
>video games have it in their cutscenes
>music is art
>almost every video games have it
>storytelling is art
>video games have storytelling
>painting and sculpting is art
>video games have digitally painted and sculpted models
>architecture is art
>some video games have awesome architecture like dark souls 3, cyberpunk 2077, etc

>somehow, despite having all these things video games arent art according to some faggot boomer with a gay face
are you guys willing to admit boomers are retards yet or what?

the entire "is x art" debate is really a debate over the definition of art. is art a taxonomic classification or is art a signifier of value?

are tomatoes fruit or are they vegetables? technically, they are fruit. the change in classification does not affect their value. nobody will start putting tomatoes in fruit salad because they are fruit

are andy warhols paintings of tomato soup cans paintings? yes, everyone agrees they are technically paintings. are they art? if yes, they are worth millions of dollars and belong in museums. if no, they are worthless trash. the question of their arty-ness is a value question

>>715963052
Architecture is art, anon. How many people does a building usually take to make?

>>715977742
Well yeah, interactivity is the strength of the medium, not the story which can be done just as well or even better in other mediums.

>>715978653
what if I got all of those things for free from an asset store and then threw them into a shovelware piece of shit that's borderline unplayable?
it's still art because it has all of those elements, surely
everyone knows the definition of art is just slapping shit together

>>715979109
yeah, that's art.

>>715978653
saying it over and over is not an argument

>>715979109
It is, in fact, art. People make collages from what, do they conjure all the images from the ether? It'd be dogshit art, but still art.
What you need to understand is that a painting sucking ass and being made by a hack doesn't make it not art, just bad art, so the same is true for vidya.

>>715962198
Americans don't know what Painting or Architecture is. They only know burgers.

>>715962035 (OP)
what would a astroturfed snob understand of art, if he never created any art himself?

>>715979393
how is he astroturfed? he built a large following from nothing through being entertaining with his reviews

>>715978329
porn games are art

>>715964120
What do people in other countries subsist on? Sunlight?

>>715975579
>He believes Art is "his lawn"

>>715962035 (OP)
Games can be art imo. But op pic is a bad argument. A sum does not necessarily inherit the properties of its parts. 3 and 5 are both prime numbers, and odd numbers, but 8 is neither prime nor odd.

>>715969514
Intentional beauty

Donkey Kong Bananza is definitely art. The ending made my heart warm. It was pretty cool.

>>715962035 (OP)
who fucking cares
fuck off with your same thread spam over and over
kys

>>715962035 (OP)
Something being "art" doesn't mean that it actually has any value as art. Ebert was quite talented and had an uncanny ability to simplify cinematic concepts to the general public. His show with Siskel essentially dominated public discourse. Note that I'm saying PUBLIC. Academic, avant garde weirdos will always be doing their own thing and creating and judging their works for themselves and their little niches.

The public and its tastes matter for VALUE and consumption. Not artistic merit.

All of this to say, it's Ebert is wrong on this point. Art to be consumed as a product is still art. Some other poster mentioned Warhol and the factory of art. That's basically all this is.

There are still creative directors, producers, etc who have unified visions of what they want their end result to be. Even the most trite bullshit still has someone going "I want this to invoke joy, whimsy, or sadness" and will do what they can to make that happen. That's still art.

tl;dr
art is a BROAD category, but simply being art doesn't give something artistic merit

>>715962035 (OP)
Jawless, dead fag

>>715962035 (OP)
>The ghost of Ebert is still haunting video games are art fags