why the FUCK do so many disingenuous niggas claim Fromsoftware doesn't expand the player move set to accommodate their increasingly complex boss design?

>staminashit
It doesn't.

I have rollslop fatigue

God I fucking hate those horny bastards.
Why did the other one just stand back and watch the 1v1? They never do this in my game. They are all on my ass as soon as I climb down the ladder.

>all those delayed attacks
Thanks for reminding me again why I'm never reinstalling this shit

>>715992489 (OP)
the irony of this post is that those enemies are incredibly easy to circle strafe and backstab

>>715992489 (OP)
>wait until enemy stops attacking so you can attack
>increasingly complex boss design

>>715993621
Game would be 10/10 if you could ride in the Rennala moon spell the whole way to the enemy.

holy fuck this is sad, the games would be so much better is they kept simplistic/puzzle bosses from earlier games, and maybe expand ds2 style gimmicks like burning a windmill to make the boss arena easier, except less obtuse

>>715992953
Just block or hyper armor through it if you don't want to time an evasive action.

>>715994107
this. it's so fucking tragic man.

>>715992489 (OP)
>Has to rely on the same spam roll dodge shit and use a broken ashe of war to win (because 90% of them are completely shit)

i've played all of these games and you just can't argue that the player mechanics are complex in the slightest. they give you more side options, but they don't make any fundamental changes to add more complexity from what they ask the user to learn. it's a strength in a way, anyone can jump into the game and grasp it immediately, it's probably responsible for a large portion of its success.
if i were to make a gay comparison, it's like one of those ballbusting pokemon romhacks. just because you spam the player with difficult encounters, doesn't change the fact that the user interface is incredibly simplistic.

>>715992953
>delayed attacks
Those are opportunities to attack you nigger faggot. Quit trying to play the game like DS1 ffs.

>>715994686
It's a symptom of the games never really evolving past what Dark Souls (series) did. Elden Ring is just the greatest hits mechanics of Dark Souls thrown in together with little regard for their interaction. They made the enemies much tougher to compensate for it, but the game feels even more passive than it used to, where movement in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 was much more important, and positioning meant you could completely destroy enemies before they even had a chance to fight back. Now it's just wait your turn for the enemy to stop doing its 20-hit flying, raging demon combo.

>>715992489 (OP)
>posts the only dlc weapon that has somewhat expanded the typical dogshit moveset you get in souls games

>>715994107
Oh no, they actually expect you to FIGHT shit now?

It's hilarious how bitter some faggots in this place are about ER's success.
The moment a game stops being a "sekrit klub" deal it's immediately criticized with low IQ takes that hold absolutely no weight, well, most of you fags don't even play videogames anyway

Because they didn't. They added guard country which is just a counterattack. Jumping, and crouching. None of these makes ER's bosses complex also, they are still very simple like in the DaS/DeS days. You can't interact with these guys in the same way you can in other action games. This isn't FROM being incompetent because they have made better fights in Sekiro and Otogi

>>715995175
Not to mention, Fromshit was extremely dishonest about the expanded weapon roster since there were only 1 or 2 throwing-type weapons, and they otherwise played exactly the same as their normal counterpart.
>>715995278
Opposite, really

>>715992489 (OP)
>rollingrollingrollingrollingrolling
Yawn

>>715995324
Retarded fromslop fanboy

>>715995386
>since there were only 1 or 2 throwing-type weapons, and they otherwise played exactly the same as their normal counterpart.
It's fucking wild that the smithscript weapons are a literal dog shit and the best throwing weapon from the DLC is technically a pair of claws with a throwing R2
Smithscript, beast claws, hand to hand, perfume bottles, all of them are underwhelming as fuck and i'm absolutely livid about dryleaf in particular because it had half the care of the bone fist put into it.

>>715995324
>it's good... because it sold well
DeS, DaS, DaS3, BB, and Sekiro are all good games that were successful and popular. ER sucks

>>715995467
I'm not the one who thinks FROM didn't exist before Dark Souls, nor am I knee deep in denial about any Souls being somehow better designed than ER, let alone dogshit like Sekiro
You people have no idea of what you're talking about, mostly because again, you don't play, you just shitpost in here because it's the only smidgeon of human interaction you get in your life

>>715993621
I love how Thop, a guy who's pretty humble and down on himself, made one of the best spells in the entire game, Thop's Barrier.

a fundamentally game breaking spell.

>>715992489 (OP)
What exactly are you trying to insinuate with this webm? Spamming a new weapon type from the DLC? Spamming weapon arts which is the equivalent of spamming super missiles in Super Metroid?

>>715995727
Thop's barrier is the worst defensive option in its category though

>>715995680
>I'm not the one who thinks FROM didn't exist before Dark Souls
My first from game was King's Field on the Ps2, and I've been playing Armored Core longer than you used this site, fuck off dumbass. ER is overrated as shit.

>>715995664
>Roll Souls III
>good
It was the beginning of the end. Elder Ring is just DS3: Open World Edition

>>715995875
I started AC with MoA back in the days so I doubt that, I'm also older than you so lower your tone with me, poser

>>715994686
I would make the argument that including a jump that makes your legs invincible added a little more complexity to your defensive options, and allowed From to add more AOE sort of attacks

i like this guy's channel. he undoubtedly posts here and has probably shilled his channel but i don't give a shit.
https://www.youtube.com/@acolyterush

>>715995980
No, it's DaS2 with an open world. DaS3 has vastly better levels.

>>715992489 (OP)
does anyone have the meme with miquella asking radahn to be his consort, he responds "yeah sure", and then tells ranni "heh, what a cute little girl". it was really funny but i forgot to save it :(

everytime I see those ER webms I can't stop thinking about how a ER only nigga would get slammed by the most basic bitch MH monster.
like a zinogre just chaining 3 paw slams in a row with no regards to let you breath and the ER monkey being like "WHERE IS THE HANG TIME TO TELL ME TO DODGE NOOOO"""

>>715996150
i too like to invent people in my head to entertain myself

>>715992489 (OP)
Because all they’ve added are weapon arts and jump attacks, both of which aren’t required to beat the game except arguably jumping during the Elden beast at the very end

>>715996120
Just because Irithyll looks nice with snow doesn't mean that DS3 has good levels.

>>715996150
>like a zinogre just chaining 3 paw slams in a row with no regards to let you breath
Even back in P3rd he was a joke, how delusional are you?

>>715996150
Lmao maybe MHGU and prior games. Even the most casual of casual fags that have never played MH play and beat Wilds without any deaths

>>715995680
>You people have no idea of what you're talking about, mostly because again, you don't play, you just shitpost in here because it's the only smidgeon of human interaction you get in your life
Damn
You sound mad

I really can't tell anymore if the people trying to prove that actually elden ring's combat is deep and has so many options and post accompanying webms to "support" their points are just false flaggers who like to make fun of fromsoft fans

>>715996120
>DaS3 has vastly better levels
Anon, DS3 shares ER's godawful level design and obsession with rolling 45 minutes per boss fight

Evergrace was the first Souls game.

>>715996013
It's also very feasible to duck enemy attacks, not just with the crouch specifically but also spells like Burn, O Flame or even just the way your hitbox moves during a guard counter. "Wait for the end of a combo" is barely even a thing with the majority of bosses, you can almost always sneak hits in some way or another. If you're waiting for the end of a combo you're just plain shit at recognizing openings.

>>715996367
It's a webm schizo, he's known for spamming nonsensical webms that show nothing of value

>>715995128
I'm pretty sure my weapon bouncing off a wall in a narrow corridor and fucking me over, which could've been avoided with a move set that swings vertically, hasn't been a risk in any of these games since after dark souls 1.
dark souls and demon's souls unironically had more depth than elden ring, and no amount of delayed gotcha roll catches and flipping in mid air will change that

>>715996260
Undead Settlement is better than Leydell's boring and empty streets.

>>715996643
That risk never existed to begin with, it's also still a thing in ER, you're just dogshit at the games and are trying to fabricate nonexistent arguments in your head despite looking like a clown to anyone who actually plays these games

>>715995128
>Now it's just wait your turn for the enemy to stop doing its 20-hit flying, raging demon combo.
What pissed me off in Epden Ring is that they'd do this and then make half their combos unsafe to punish anyways
Looking at Morgott specifically and his stupid silly dagger slash of cancel everything

>>715996328
doesn't make him less right tho

>>715996469
You can duck under enemy attacks but it requires rote memorization. It's too slow and laggy to be an option you're going to use.

>>715996425
>DS3 shares ER's godawful level design
No. DS3 has by far the biggest and most intricate individual levels in the entire franchise. Compare the Archives, a gigantic building with several secret side areas you can explore from top to bottom including the railing area, to the absolute wet fart that is Raya Lucaria

>>715996760
it "can" happen, but it doesn't happen because there are more narrow corridors, retard. that was my entire point.

>>715993505
You ever think about how "tough enemy" in Elden Ring means an enemy that's just immune to anything that could interrupt its combo strings?

>>715996851
Samefag, quit projecting.

>expanded player moveset
>ash adds one(1) more move but very rarely will have a stance that adds two(2) moves
whoa...it's deeper than an ocean man...

>>715996870
>Holy shit I need to actually understand what I'm doing and have a modicum of game knowledge and reflexes???
>No, that option doesn't exist!
Yes, let's go back to the good old times where you'd just Fire Spray or Dark Bead everything blindly at zero effort, or even just mash R1 and stunlock things at no investments, those were the days...

>>715992489 (OP)
This webm doesn't show how the player moveset was expanded
There's no crouch attack or jump attacks

>>715997062
>I need to actually understand
Rote memorization is not good action game design. It's extremely fucking retarded.
>reflexes
It's a Taimura game so the controls are shit. It's that simple.

>>715996870
That's why I said with spells or other attacks. I don't really duck using the crouch itself at all, L3 isn't a responsive enough binding to rely on it, but I do go for big attacks if I think I can pull it off, and the game rewards me for it. Point is the hitboxes on a lot of bosses are super precise compared to the older games and it lets you get away with much more aggressive play than what /v/ thinks is possible because they're stuck on roll and R1 being the only buttons they can press.

>>715997062
I love how you're pretending you use this shit when it's not even that useful and virtually doesn't change how you play the game.

>>715996890
This isn't true

>>715997212
>Rote memorization is not good action game design
You don't need to memorize shit, you can do this by simply knowing how low profiling works
ER controls are also the best they've ever been.
ALL games are about memorization in one way or another by the way, ESPECIALLY action games
>>715997251
Wrong on both accounts

>>715997251
I use that constantly

>Pays homage while meaningfully iterating on every single mechanic Fromsoft has ever implemented, far superior to anything in Elden Ring
It's not even as cool as a game, but mechanically speaking, it BTFOs Fromsoft in every way
>>715997424
Could've done the same exact thing via dodging lol fuck off

>>715997480
>Could've done the same exact thing via dodging lol
Yeah show your gameplay

>>715997534
He won't, none of these failed matthewmatosis expies here are ever going to show you anything because they don't play, they're just here to shitpost

>>715997534
Sorry, I don't make a bunch of webms every time I play the game to shitpost about it on hand.

>>715994686
>they give you more side options, but they don't make any fundamental changes to add more complexity from what they ask the user to learn.
The attacks tripled per weapon. I doubt you are remotely close to understanding the potential of most mechanics of Elden Ring

>>715997395
>you don't need to memorize shit
I'm sure you can dodge Margit's dagger swings the moment he comes out with it your first time fighting him.

>>715997609
Yeah, that would require you to actually play the game in the first place, lmao

>>715993505
I love swording and boarding so much bros

>>715992489 (OP)
Fromsoft "movesets" are all a bunch of canned animations that exist in a vacuum. There are no interesting interactions, mechanics, or combos. You do melee damage, ranged damage, or a different color DoT/buildup type move. And no, you fucking retarded niggerfaggots, adding some iframes to things doesn't mean the animation is mechanically complex.

>>715997669
>The attacks tripled per weapon.
Bloodborne has the most complex movesets.

>>715997691
Continue coping

>>715997743
No

>>715997682
You couldn't?
Damn bro I'm sorry for you that the fucking tutorial boss raped you so hard
>>715997727
All wrong

>>715997424
Then your play is suboptimal

>>715997727
Wrong
>>715997743
No

>>715997790
Lmao, who cares about your incomplete cheevos if they're even yours, post yourself playing you fucking faggot

>>715997847
>All wrong
Tell me about some moves that aren't just canned animations and that have complex or interesting mechanics or interactions.
>>715997886
You too. If you can't actually list any, or try to move the goalposts and say "Well actually those things don't matter" then you lose the argument.

>N-no
>W-w-wrong
LMAO
>>715997907
>You have to complete hunt every achievement for a shit game you don't like to prove yourself to me
No thanks faggot.

>>715992489 (OP)
Holy shit you suck. Not only is your build shit, you also mechanically suck at the game. The fact you thought this is impressive gameplay is astounding.

You don't actually need to engage with Elden Ring at all considering how much broken bullshit it gives you to bypass any nuance anything might present anyway. It's why Sekiro is their best action game because everything is built around a very specific toolkit.

Elden Ring doesn't demand you respect it at all and you honestly shouldn't. Oh, and the open world is a time wasting exercise on repeat playthroughs.

>>715992489 (OP)
i can hear your ceiling bird chirping from here, nigger

>>715998031
>It's why Sekiro is their best action game because everything is built around a very specific toolkit.
Sekiro was an underbaked game as well, prosthetic and combat art balance is terrible

ER fags fear the superior Lies of P

>>715997743
Based. BB is FROM's magnum opus. ERniggers could never.

>>715997727
>You do melee damage, ranged damage, or a different color DoT/buildup type move
All of these are just applying negative values to an enemy's HP value, you don't even need the distinctions. Real combat interactions exist in ER but they are used sparsely and generally obsoleted by raw DPS: hitstun, hardness, burning, enemy specific behavior like marionettes and avionettes shorting out after they take damage and so on.

>>715993781
How is he doing so little damage? He's swinging a greathammer and it's clearly and endgame build wtf

>>715998123
Bloodborne still shits all over Lies of PeePee

>>715997847
Duck, not roll retard.

>>715992794
They have very bad eyesight and a tiny aggro range. Once you aggro them they will chase you till the ends of the earth but as long as you stay out of their range they will ignore practically everything.

>>715998141
God, I love Bloodborne.

>>715998203
Because he chose to use one hammer instead of 2, despite there being zero reason not to just use 2 if you aren't going to use a shield.

>>715992778
That’s because you play all the shitty dark souls clones like lies of p and the dozens of other wanna-bes. You weren’t supposed to be fatigued because fromsoft waits years between releases, and fromsoft rollslop is the only rollslop you should be consuming. Everything else is a pale imitation at best.

>>715998336
>Lies of P
>Roll slop
Wrong, and you didn't play it.

I think a lot of people's complaints about ER bosses would disappear if they had Sekiro's perilous attack warnings, made the stance break meter visible and maybe increased the roll's stamina cost or something to encourage people to not use it all the time.

>>715998336
I played like two Soulslikes and I'm fatigued. But I did play all the From games a lot.

>>715997864
Wrong
>>715997948
>If you can't actually list any
That's not how burden of proof works, but either way the idea that attacks in any Souls games are simply interchangeable and with no actual implications to how the combat follow up is retarded and shows you are complete shit at the games and probably struggle to play well and find the games enjoyable as consequence.
Each attack has specific utility and the combat flows in a way that feels far less prescribed and static as most combat system. The core of PVP systems, caster gameplay and aggressive melee combat is correctly stringing attacks based on enemy tells and maximizing the enemy vulnerability. You would know if you were remotely competent at it

>>715998123
>actually well foreshadowed by the base game, one of the creepiest and coolest characters who keeps harrassing you all over the game
>DLC massively expands his arc and ties every loose plot thread together
>the fight is an actual spectacle unlike the t-posing gay radahn, design is elder god tier, you even actually get a unique finishers with Lea if you bring her into the fight
>beautiful, tragic as fuck ending to the DLC that actually feels impactful
ENTER

>>715997948
Why?
So you're going to say they don't count?
All attacks in the game have properties attached to them on top of specific hitbox positioning.
The very basic attribute modifiers change how you interact with enemies, a simple R1 chain from Dryleaf for instance WILL stunlock Gravebirds because they're coded to receive higher stagger from strike attacks, a R1 chain from a thrusting sword won't do that.
Dryleaf charged R2 allows you to low profile shit but Dane's Footwork's doesn't because the way the hitboxes are arranged doesn't work in the same way, your hitbox is much taller so you lose access to a specific tool.
Wanna talk about constructs like Imps or Golems and how you can haywire them to fight things for you by throwing a couple of crystal daggers on them? Oh I forgot, that's not a deep or meaningful mechanic to you.
How about throwing anything fire based at a miner with casket so it detonates the casked and kills them and anything near them for you?
How about using something with launcher properties like Giant Hunt or Divine Beast Tornado? Did you know that different enemies also have different reactions to the launcher? Bloodfiends don't react in the same way as, say, black knights, but of course that doesn't matter to you.
I can go on all day and I'm sure you'll refute every single example I can bring because you don't want to have a honest discussion about this, you just want to shitpost.
>>715998009
No faggot, you don't get it, your cheevos means nothing to anyone, you're just a dogshit player

>>715998391
It’s literally roll slop, only instead of rolling they copied bloodbornes dodge slop. Shame they couldn’t copy anything else right, like good art direction, an interconnected world, satisfying weapon animation, cool bosses, fun builds, etc, etc.

>>715998391
lies of p is another side of the same coin
>typical souls clone + sekiro clone combination except more competent than the typical clone, still not as competent as souls stuff
>zero interesting online features, railroaded linear world, characters and shit nowhere as good
fromsoft clones have never truly gotten unstuck from the rut of making a DS3-style game instead of elevating it to the level of literally any other game in the franchise like ds1/ds2/bb/sekiro/ER

>>715998123
>Bloodborne for women
>Good

>>715998514
no one cares about your gook unreal engine slop you faggot.

Only in these threads you can find retards actually impressed by an occasional animation that lets you duck under a certain attack animation randomly, since it's nearly impossible to pull off consciously
This shit has existed since the dawn of time and even the games like stellar blade have it

>>715998852
You care enough to reply subboy

>>715998617
>hit an enemy with a sword covered in ice
>instead of the enemy getting frozen solid, he just takes damage and gets a generic status
Not him, but ER is lame and boring.

>>715998336
my rollslop fatigue actually started when I played Dark Slop 2

>>715998203
because it's not an endgame build, it's a level 80 build with a +12 weapon and iirc 4 blessings

>>715998997
That's more because DaS2 is literal, actual garbage made for stupid people.

>>715998867
The fact that a disingenuous idiot like you is soiling my girl Ponko with your shitposts genuinely irritates me
>>715998957
I also hit your whale of a mother with an iceslab and she doesn't get frozen solid after a bunch of blows, but you don't see me complaining

>>715998867
>since it's nearly impossible to pull off consciously
i didnt finish elden ring but i did that shit literally all the time with one of the moves that brought me to a lower stance. i even ducked under some attacks in sekiro but its nowhere as useful there
>you can do it in stellar blade
in stellar blade the hitbox is like 3x more likely too be too shit to allow that, and you need to consider the fact stellar blade does not feature (literally every other reason why people like fromsoft games unless theyre impressed by parryslop/stagger bar shit)

consciously ducking under attacks is some of the most underused forms of dodging in vidya, and actual evasion or effortful counters instead of i-frames or "press 1 button to invalidate enemy attack" should always be praised. ER with its better jumps and ducks literally brought the series closer to not relying on i-frame spam shit that has been plaguing the franchise for a while, and actually making challenges based around actually thinking of how you evade which they only really truly did once (ds2) and then immediatelly dropped because of backlash, going all into the direction of rolling inside enemy attacks with no braincells required. all things considered i think ER adding so much more room for this shit is literally the coolest shit ever

>>715999090
My mother sounds like a cool game that lets me actually play around with fun abilities and do different things.

all souls combat is just dodge > punish, eneimes never group up on you in interesting ways, there's very little unique interactions, the combat system has barely changed since demon souls

>>715999184
>consciously ducking under attacks is some of the most underused forms of dodging in vidya
for clarification
by that i mean ACTUALLY DUCKING under ACTUAL NORMAL ATTACKS instead of simon says shit where it goes "heres the attack specifically made to be able to be ducked under!!!!

>>715999184
>in stellar blade the hitbox is like 3x more likely too be too shit to allow that
Stellar blade has far better hitboxes than elden ring, that shit is surgically precise

>>715999184
>consciously ducking under attacks is some of the most underused forms of dodging in vidya
Play Nioh 2, a game that actually features conscious ducking under attacks, instead of being an easily impressed midwit who randomly pulled off a ducking move and never managed to repeat it again

>>715996890
That is true. It's the case in most Soulslikes tbf. Basic enemy is something that usually gets stunlocked by mashing attack, tougher or elite enemies just have enough poise to not get stunlocked so you have to actually deal with their attacks.

Fromsoft peaked with bloodborne and climaxed with Sekiro. ER and DaS3 are garbage games for zoomers.

>>715998617
>Accuse people of not playing the game
>I played the game
>IT DOESN'T COUNT Y-YOU'RE JUST SHIT!
Don't care, game sucks, Lies of P is superior, you're a faggot.

>>715999456
Makes sense that a Niohcuck doesn't have the brain to consistently low profile shit in ER and pretend it's all random shit, all you play are dogshit button mashers

>>715999381
That's because it's a PlatinumGames Nierclone, not a soulslike..
Are we going to start comparing MGR to Bloodborne? What is even happening?

>>715999654
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/image/7tbGxamNIpKPT9pJTuDfLQ/
How do you call this mental illness?
>spends an entire year trying to pick fights with better action games

>>715996469
I started using Burn, O Flame recently and that shit ducks so low to the ground it's hilarious. Long windup, so you need FU Greatsword user levels of ESP, but it's satisfying as fuck to just blast a boss while it rips out some giga autismo up in the stratosphere.

>m-muh difficulty
The final boss on Inferno in Ys: Oath in Felghana is harder than anything FROM has ever made.

>>715999654
The hitbox on mohg's sideway spear swipes is so high he constantly misses with no "ducking" involved, tard

I'm recording vids of myself doing parry only Lies of P boss fights now, stay tuned for kino.
t. Parry enjoyer

>>715999251
>eneimes never group up on you in interesting ways
They tried that one time and people still seethe about it to this day. They seethe so hard about ever having to fight more than one enemy at a time that From completely lobotomized Elden Ring's boss AI in one of the patches. Half the duo/trio fights in the game are barely even fights anymore because the bosses just stand there watching while you kill their buddies.

>>715999793
>Make absurd claim while shitposting about a game
>Get BTFO over and over again
>Has a PTSD from being BTFO in the past and checks the archive
I'm not the one picking fights here, but I guess your useless ass is still sore from a previous beating
>>715999928
Feel free to prove it anon

>>715999949
Post the rest of the fight.
Prove Messmer didn't completely eat your lunch.

>Game lets you use i frames to avoid attack
>Or you can technically not use i frames SOMETIMES
>Monster Hunter has dodging as well, but little to no iframes to abuse as well, including ducking
I don't get it, ER is still just about abusing i-frames. Games like MH and Nioh are actually not about abusing i-frames, unlike souls while still having defensive options. Why would you praise some game for doing something that everything else has done better?

>>716000008
You're here to entertain me, animal. You're past the point of saving. The very fact you're using an attack that can be dodged literally by moving around Mohg's hitbox to showcase "ducking" is hilarious, but the fact you ate a handful of dicks in DMC thread is even better.

>>715992489 (OP)
>delayslop
>>715993505
>Comboslop
>>715993621
>Parryslop
>>715993695
>Spellspamslop

>>716000102
>but little to no iframes to abuse as well
Nigger, we were rolling through roars, fireballs and gravios lasers since the PS2, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>716000102
It's just Fromdrones being retarded and refusing to admit the games are built around a universal dodge mechanic.

>>716000153
Cats are really good representations of Madness.

>b-but you have other options too!
and yet, rolling works just as well.
In fact, it works consistently every single time AND it costs practically nothing in Stamina.

That's the fucking issue. A 26f roll (@60fps) that moves you 2 body lengths for practically free.
Compare that to MonHun; 8f, fuckall distance (unless you invest in evasion skills) and the issue becomes apparent.

>>716000153
>No proof
>More schizobabble and projection
Sure thing anon

>>716000153
>Cat HP
>About to frenzy the fuck out
RIP cat, I guess

>>716000178
I used a shield

>>716000102
>>Monster Hunter has dodging as well, but little to no iframes to abuse as well, including ducking
This hasn't really been the case since GU.

>>716000263
>Compare that to MonHun
You really don't want to because you're not coming out of that argument looking good.

>>715998509
>That's not how burden of proof works
Actually, it is. I said something isn't there, you said it is. I'm not the one who has to prove it's not there.
>the idea that attacks in any Souls games are simply interchangeable
Who are you quoting? If all you can do is put words in my mouth to try to strawman mean, then you have no argument.
> The core of PVP systems
Only the most retarded of retards pretend Souls PvP matters.

>>715999546
That's just the Fromdrone special.

>>716000057
Anon, I've beaten Malenia at RL1. Also Godskin Duo at RL1 without summons or sleep, also Morgott at RL1 with only a +0 weapon, and I've beaten the entirety of DS3 at SL1.

>>715992489 (OP)
>HERE'S HOW GOOD THE GAME IS YOU SHITDIPS
>starts by rolling rolling rolling rolling rolling poke gets hit by poise ignoring 5000 hit combo enemy anyway regardless of weapon type or moveset
thrilling. got more of that complex and varied gameplay

>>716000309
Rise rolls literally have fewer iframes than any game before it
That's why rolling shit I'm programmed to (like Narga roar/swipes) is harder in Rise than 4U

>>715992953
Sounds like you need to adjust yourself. A skill issue if you will.

Playing DS1 and 2 makes me realize just how much DS3 fucked the franchise, dodging attacks by just walking/sprinting without using a roll feels so good, meanwhile in 3 everything needs a fucking roll

>>716000461
He had you down to half HP and since your wondrous flask was used up I can only assume your other flasks were as well. You had no heals and your parry attacks were barely doing squat.
Oh did you really do all of that? It'd be a shame if somebody asked for video evidence.

>>716000476
>Rise rolls literally have fewer iframes than any game before it
Is that supposed to matter in the game where hunters have the highest mobility in the series and every weapon has been homogeneized into having the same exact built in HA and i-frames options?
You people really wouldn't be able to find sand on a beach.

>>716000476
He talked about iframes. The games have been littered with iframes since GU. The rolling is whatever, and as the series continues it becomes more obsolete.

>>715997669
I'm a retard, can you explain what the old attacks were in DS3 and what new attacks the same weapon would have in ER?

>>715992489 (OP)
Ways to fight enemies in a souls game
>roll on the ground and R1 them in the knees during recovery
>stagger (doesn't work on bosses)
>block 1 hit and lose 90% of your stamina
>spam projectiles while rolling

Ways to fight enemies in an actual video game
>roll
>stagger (works on most bosses but if you hit them out of specific attacks/in specific areas)
>sekiro deflect
>parry (these are two different mechanics)
>it's okay to just block sometimes and take the chip damage because your R1's don't use stamina, only defending
>use an attack with guard/iframes
>chain cancel your heavy attacks right before getting hit into doing one of the above instead of slowly chipping the boss with R1
>all kinds of lifesteal/hp recovery facetank builds
>spam projectiles (but most builds have to melee to get MP back)

nightreign being the exact same shit as elden ring but with some hero shooter ultimate moves was real depressing after playing this

>>716000614
>since your wondrous flask was used up I can only assume your other flasks were as well.
huh?

>>716000597
Exactly, Dark Souls used to be like beat 'em ups and used movement as a fundamental, now it's just roll slop ever since they reduced the penalties for medium equipment load.

>>715998617
>So you're going to say they don't count?
No, so you can talk about mechanics that actually exist.
>All attacks in the game have properties attached to them on top of specific hitbox positioning.
>because they're coded to receive higher stagger from strike attacks
Hitboxes for attacks and hitstuns are things that have been around since the SNES days. This isn't the defense of the mechanics you think it is. Can enemies be ragdolled or do they have dynamic launch animations? Action games have had that for decades now. Does ER just have basic flinch and a canned "launch" animation for very small enemies?
>your hitbox is much taller
Deleting parts of the players hitbox is the laziest, worst type of mechanics you can put in any action game.
>Wanna talk about constructs like Imps or Golems and how you can haywire them to fight things for you by throwing a couple of crystal daggers on them?
Casting confusion on an enemy isn't a deep or interesting mechanic. Doom had monster infighting in 1993. Can you trick enemies into hitting each other and cause them to fight? Will groups of enemies have "friendlies" and then other enemies that they'll attack on the field? And I'm not talking about the little scripted fights that play out the same way each time you approach them.
>How about throwing anything fire based at a miner with casket so it detonates the casked
That's the equivalent of a walking red barrel. If I ignite an enemy, can they bump other enemies and light them? What about objects in the world? The closest the game comes to anything like that is throwing oil pots at enemies to make fire work better, and that's a very fucking basic mechanic.
>I can go on all day and I'm sure you'll refute every single example I can bring because you don't want to have a honest discussion about this, you just want to shitpost.
Wrong. I'm just not going to pretend that basic mechanics that have been around for decades make something a mechanically complex action game.

>>716000426
Watch out, he's going to post some ebin PvP webms now.

>>716000614
Anon, pls don't make me do this..
https://youtu.be/hOLLoPkH7gs

>>716000748
I hope he posts some with menuing and pretends they're awesome combat with deep mechanics. Those are my favorite.

>>716000629
It means you've got options now, ACTUAL options and not
>rolling but works on 1% of attacks, so just roll
>>716000627
>homogenized
I play Hammer, SnS, and Lance and idk what you're crying about they play completely different.
Go do some Arenas or something, the Espinas one is really good.

>>716000669
>Final fantasy
>Actual videogame

>>715997743
Yet BB has the most simplistic spammy combat of the catalogue

>>715992953
Look at this fucking bullshit delayed attack. From Soft really fell off since their King's Field days.

So nobody itt had fun playing Elden Ring? I have never played a game from this company and I think it is fun. What other games are there that don't use dodge?

Fromdrone schizo defending garbage like ER and BB etc.. in this thread is just one schizo who might also post on Twitter.

>>716000881
>only turns about 90degrees instead of spinning on a swivel
Looks good.

>>716000881
Actually, you just posted an example of how it used to be, proper wind up, as soon as he was done pulling back, he swung forward.
ER knew people got used to this and fucked with the animations so that they just hold still for an unreasonable amount of time to trip people up.

>>716000870
I actually mostly don't disagree, though I think Dark Souls 2 is worse, but it's cool how many moves you have even if a lot of them are superfluous or of limited application.

>>716000102
I legitimately don't remember what can you even iframe in Nioh. Maybe some long-winded attacks by using high stance dodge?
Otherwise it's literally all about spacing, blocking and actually ducking under with Defensive Drop

>>715992489 (OP)
>axe literally hits you a lot of frames before you dodge
>it doesn't count because you hit the dodge button and queued the animation
jank kino

>>716000906
>and I think it is fun
Because you haven't played their previous games. They are much better than ER. Worst part of ER isn't even the combat. It's the bland and boring overworld.

>>716000906
I had fun playing Elden Ring. I had more fun playing other games though. I still think ER is good.

>>716001002
>>716001028
>it's fine when the game I have nostalgia for does it

>>716000856
I mean, yes. But that's not what the claim was lol. The claim was that MH wasn't about abusing iframes.
Since GU, the series has copious amounts of iframes. GU and Rise are the biggest offenders with wirebugs/valor, but even Wilds decided to give every weapon iframes in some form.

This is why I don't play Fromslop since I was exposed to better actio adventure games growing up in the 2000s. These websites look like janky unfinished slop that you'll see in shovelware shit. I feel bad for zoomers and gen alpha.

>>716000906
I liked it, but I'm just here to watch webms.

>>716000881
You can actually tell when the enemy is going to bring it down, meanwhile something like the nameless kang you need to trial and error his bullshit, because fuck animations that clearly say when the attack starts and when it ends

>>716000865
>didn't play it

>>716001107
>N-nostalgia!
kay

>>716000870
Yet it's by far and away the best.

>>716001196
Now say you're sorry.

>>716001239
Looks like shit and also plays like it. I don't get the hype when this looks as boring as turned based combat.

>>716001137
>Wilds
Shit game better left forgotten, God that was so fucking embarrassing, I just want to move on.

>>716000724
Yeah you did exactly what I said you'd do.
>Can enemies be ragdolled or do they have dynamic launch animations?
Why should enemies be always ragdolled? Why is ragdolling inherently better than having specific states, especially in the system ER uses?
>Does ER just have basic flinch and a canned "launch" animation for very small enemies?
Did you even play the game that you have to ask something people already gave you answers for?
>Deleting parts of the players hitbox
No such thing happens, which you'd know if you actually played the game, Dryleaf R2 animation aligns your hiboxes in a way that lets you low profile shit, Dane's FW's doesn't, something that again, you'd know if you actually played the game.
>Casting confusion on an enemy isn't a deep or interesting mechanic
Says who?
>Can you trick enemies into hitting each other and cause them to fight?
You literally can, though I'm sure it doesn't count to you because it's not the same exact infighting mechanic your favorite games use.
>That's the equivalent of a walking red barrel.
And that is bad? How?
>If I ignite an enemy, can they bump other enemies and light them?
No, because thankfully the game's combat is not trying to be Dark Messiah nor did it ever pretend to be, especially since Dark Messiah is a terrible game.
Again, you're not here to discuss anything, you made it more than clear enough.

>>716001239
You can do the same webm for all the Souls games, how about something BB specific?

>>716001368
>Dark Messiah is a terrible game.
FROMdrones have the worst taste in video games, I swear.

>>716000881
Compare the swing speed.
Elden ring delayed attacks go instantly from windup to landing at mach speed. See both 00:47 and 00:49(and that's not even the best example since these are chumps)
Demon souls go from wind up, then a tell so you know the attack is coming to actually swinging.

>>716001368
Another shit game blazer turning into another lolcow schizo.

>>716001332
u r gay

>>716001456
I don't need to post anything else because BB's MLGS is the sexiest and most funniest weapon ever created.

Fromtrannies are worse than tendies.

I just came to say that ds3 looks like shimmering smeared shit and rollslop games peaked with ds2.

>>716001484
Dark Messiah is a terrible jankfest of a game, having a couple of neat physics based tricks doesn't save it from being an ultimately boring and mindless game for midwits, which is why nobody cares about it and why the immsim genre is dead in the water.
If I wanted games with interesting physics manipulation in combat that are actually done well I'd play one of the many roguelikes like CDDA.

>Enemies in DS1 and DS2
>I swing weapon, weapons either hits you or misses, roll not required in some cases
>Enemies in DS3 onward
>I first do a twirl with sprinkly fart particles and go airborne for 2 seconds, coming down doing another twirl midair before my attack finally lands, roll mandatory even if on the other side of the continent

>>716001680
>peaked at a shit game
Explains why this fanbase is a big mess when it shouldn't exist.

>>716001523
Elden Ring also has tells for when the swing is actually coming, they're just faster and less obvious. This not a bad thing, go replay Demon's Souls and notice how piss easy it is to dodge attacks to the point of boredom. The only way you could ever get hit by one of those swings is if your eyes are closed.

>>716001754
>doesn't save it from being an ultimately boring and mindless game for midwits
But enough about Elden Ring. Go ride in a straight line on a shitty overworld where every area plays exactly the same

>>716001107
>does it
Does what?

>>716001773
This guy get it.

>>716001903
ur mum

Why don't Fromtrannies play other games? Why are they obsessed with the same shit game over and over again?

>>716001890
None of that happens, which is why ER is a very successful game while nobody care about Dark Messiah.
Turns out physics gimmicks don't inherently make a game either fun or deep.

>>716002047
Why don't you complain about any other fanbase? Why are you so obsessed with us?

>>716002047
>Anyone who likes FROM games doesn't play or like anything else
Delusional

>>716002054
>None of that happens,
Tell me one region with a different biome that plays differently. Immersive sims also isn't a genre you dumb monkey.

>>716002150
>Why are you complaining about the from fanbase in a fromthread instead of complaining about Tendies
Me smart

>>716002150
That's because you refuse to play better options and admit the faults of your obsession with shit games that play like garbage.

>>716002181
I'm not gonna wasy any more time on a seething clown with zero clues about anything including the (dead) genres he supposedly likes

>>716002431
I'm not the original anon you were arguing with. Seriously, wikipedia? Why are you so gay. And you won't answer it because even you know it's true.

Well you can blame 'muh enemy placement' fags for the death of honest gameplay after DS2. If from isn't allowed to gank you with 2 or more enemies and trap you, then what else can they do to make the game challenging other than give one guy delayed mlg tracking aimbot with a gajillion hp who one shots you..?

The variety of the moveset and the amount of buttons required for input is just a small part of the "combat system" and what makes it quality and fun, but you all are too casual and too far removed from video games to even understand what I'm talking about.

>>716001368
>Why is ragdolling inherently better than having specific states
Because we're talking about mechanical depth. We already established canned animations were worse in the first post when I brought it up and you didn't argue that point, but now that you're caught with your pants down, you're trying to pretend it doesn't matter. Static/canned is bad. Dynamic is good.
>Did you even play the game that you have to ask something people already gave you answers for?
It was a rhetorical question. I know it doesn't.
>No such thing happens,
It literally does depending on which move you're doing. It's how things as basic as even jumping attacks work.
>Says who?
Anyone who isn't a retarded cocksucking niggerfaggot trying to pretend that basic 30 year old mechanics make something a good action game.
>though I'm sure it doesn't count to you because it's not the same exact infighting mechanic your favorite games use.
What favorite games? I just gave a single example of how a game literally 30 years older than ER had dynamic and natural infighting.
>And that is bad? How?
It's not bad in and of itself, but if that's the depth of the mechanical interaction that you can bring up, the game is shallow. Objectively.
>No because the game isn't actually mechanically complex
Cool. Next time someone says the game is mechanically simple, start by saying "Actually that's a good thing" so you can be called a retard and ignored instead of insisting it has depth and complexity, trying to argue, and then circling around to "Actually it's not trying to have depth or complexity."

>>716002597
>honest gameplay after DS2
Don't make me post the pasta, DaS2tranny.

>>716002682
You're the tranny

>>715992489 (OP)
there were many instance where he could have just backstab those enemies but he never does it. Good fighting otherwise.

>>716002054
>Turns out physics gimmicks don't inherently make a game either fun or deep.
Nah, most people are just retarded casuals and ER appeals to them.

>>716002426
>>716002197
I don't like Persona. I think it's the dumbest shittiest franchise with garbage boring gameplay and horribly written story. Never once in my life have I ever gone into a Persona thread to complain about Persona fans. Why do you do this with From Soft games? What do you get out of it?

>>716002597
He's right

>>716002597
A lot of DS2 ganks boil down to 3 or more dudes with banzai charges covering each others cheeks so tightly it's impossible to get a hit in without punish, rarely is there positioning involved, even worse when DS2 AI pathing is what it is

>>716002765
Into the coffin you go.

>>716002431
>wikipedia
Not him, but you're a fucking retard. Immsim is a design philosophy that the people who coined the term have talked about extensively, it's not a genre. Thief, Dark Messiah and Deus Ex are not the same genre of game.

>>715998009
>>N-no
>>W-w-wrong
Correct, you are wrong
>>716000426
>Who are you quoting?
You? The idea attacks exist in a vacuum and combat isn't deep because Souls games aren't centered around stringing canned motions from a movelist is retarded.
Each attack affects the player and enemy states uniquely making selecting the correct one very instrumental
>Only the most retarded of retards pretend Souls PvP matters.
No. You pretend you don't because you are too retarded to understand the game mechanics around it

All the complaining about ds2 makes me think it's the hardest of the series. Is it the most strategic of the series instead of reactionary?

>>716002597
Make the environments interesting and fun to navigate instead of putting all the onus on the enemies themselves to trick the player into dying. If the "difficulty" is just surprise gotcha moments, then the game is probably shit.

>>716002681
>We already established canned animations were worse in the first post when I brought it up and you didn't argue that point
Are you stupid? I didn't argue the point because it's a complete nonsequitur that nobody sane even considers.
>I know it doesn't.
You just acknowledged it does, whined about having static/canned interaction on top of it and now it doesn't? Make up your mind.
>It literally does depending on which move you're doing.
Good thing we were talking about a specific case in which it doesn't happen, you really can't resist weaseling out with misdirection and moving the goalposts, do you?
>Anyone who isn't a retarded cocksucking niggerfaggot
We're not talking about you, get off that high horse.
>a game literally 30 years older than ER had dynamic and natural infighting.
There's absolutely nothing dynamic or natural about Doom's infighting which is why nobody is doing it anymore, it's a highly abstract mechanic and like all mechanics its value is neither inherent nor universal
>Objectively.
There's nothing objective about it, you still refuse to argue in good faith because we both know you just hate these games due to their popularity.

You're miserable, and being such a disingenuous and passive aggressive cunt online won't change your situation for the better.

>>715998336
ONE GAME PER FUCKING YEAR

>>716003119
>You?
I never said or implied they were interchangeable. You're putting words in my mouth because you're literally (not metaphorically) too fucking stupid to read and participate in this argument.

>>716003142
>DS2
>Strategic

If you casuals think From Soft games are unfair, never play Nioh 2 or other Team Ninja games.
>see a room with an enemy inside, their back turned to you
>fufufu, sneak attack moment
>as you creep in, another enemy falcon punches you from a blind spot, while the first one is alerted and joins the fray
ggwp Team Ninja

>>716003142
DS2 is the most willing to fuck your asshole raw without lube, i wouldn't call it more strategic or reactionary than 1

>>716002910
I don't hate From games and played almost lots of them (pre-Souls) released in English. ER just sucks and has the loudest and most annoying fanboys.

>>716003261
>I never said
Yes you did. You claimed attacks don't have interesting interaction with the enemy or between each other
That's obviously wrong to anyone remotely good at Souls games, so it's clear that you refuse to post your own gameplay out of fear of getting outed

>>716003442
The souls games pull the exact same shit rollbeit

>>716003501
>ER just sucks and has the loudest and most annoying fanboys.
That honor goes to Dark Souls 1 fanboys, and no, ER doesn't suck, it's the first FROM ARPG that is actually passable and that includes both King's Field and Shadow Tower

>>716003442
Souls has way more elaborate traps than that.

>>715995585
>beast claws, hand to hand .... are underwhelming
Did we play the same game?

>>716003593
But ER is just DS1 resold and repackaged.

>>716003609
Of course not, none of these failed e-celebs did, their utter lack of actual mechanical knowledge and constant contradictory claims are evident for all to see

>>716003216
>Are you stupid? I didn't argue the point
>>715997727
>There are no interesting interactions, mechanics, or combos.
To which you replied "wrong". So no matter how asshurt it makes you, you objectively did argue that. I know you're a fucking retard and you're probably used to talking to other complete fucking retards, but I'm not going to let you walk back on what you explicitly said and pretend you have a point. Sorry.
>You just acknowledged it does, whined about having static/canned interaction on top of it and now it doesn't?
I'm fucking begging you. Learn to read English before you come here to argue.
>>716000724
>Can enemies be ragdolled or do they have dynamic launch animations? Action games have had that for decades now. Does ER just have basic flinch and a canned "launch" animation for very small enemies?
>Does ER just have basic
>just have basic
I then said I know it doesn't have any of the good dynamic stuff I mentioned.
>Good thing we were talking about a specific case in which it doesn't happen
Yes it does, because that's how the game works. If you want to pretend otherwise, then show the active hurtbox on the player for the move. If you can't, then shut the fuck up.
>There's absolutely nothing dynamic or natural about Doom's infighting
Objectively wrong. Please learn what the word dynamic actually means. At this point I think you believe it to just be a synonym of "cool" that people use to describe things they like.
>There's nothing objective about it, you still refuse to argue in good faith
No, you stupid fucking redditor, I'm just not letting you lie and backpedal and pretend that a few extremely shallow mechanics strung together make for a good action game.
>and being such a disingenuous and passive aggressive
Again, for the dozenth time, learn English before you try to argue here. Nothing I've said is passive aggressive. I've explicitly called you a cocksucking retard multiple times.

Do i hate myself enough to do Horsefuck valley on champions covenant?

>>716002998
You're just bad at the game

>>716003692
is it Ds1 or Ds3? It can't be both.

>>715992489 (OP)
>why the FUCK do so many disingenuous niggas claim Fromsoftware doesn't expand the player move set to accommodate their increasingly complex boss design?
because those people have been playing
>knight with claymore
since demon's souls.

>>716003442
What a way to disgrace yourself. You've never played a game from software in your life, have you?
This is the most default and common trap of the dozens of types of traps placed at every step in their games.

>>716003183
Well that's exactly what Shrine of Amana was and this retard baby casual fanbase whined like bitches. So you get what you ask for. You can fight one guy in open space instead who has a gajillion hp and has aimbot tracking for muh challenge.

>>716003721
You are not intelligent enough to play semantics with people, I'm also not wasting even more time downloading external tools to show you what is common knowledge to anyone who actually plays these games.
Also because again, you're not here to actually discuss anything, you've been caught empty handed multiple times and you desperately try to redirect the conversation to some recursive nonargument.
You'll keep seething for many more years in the future though, that much I do know.

>>716003871
Shrine of amana is a miserable slow grind unless you bend it over with archery, but at that point the whole game is easy if you use archery

>>715996879
>a gigantic building with several secret side areas you can explore from top to bottom including the railing area, to the absolute wet fart that is Raya Lucaria
can't tell if this is bait or not, Raya Lucaria has a ton of secret side railing areas

>>716003512
>You claimed attacks don't have interesting interaction with the enemy or between each other
Correct. And that's true. It also doesn't mean they're interchangeable.
>That's obviously wrong to anyone remotely good at Souls games, so it's clear that you refuse to post your own gameplay out of fear of getting outed
Nah, sorry. I'm not a niggerfaggot that pretends Tanimurashit is hard or well designed or anything. BB was the only game that was really interesting and fun on any level with damage types because of the variety you got from trick weapon movesets. You could combine blunt, slash, serrated and pierce damage at various ranges with 2 different weapons you had on you, and the movesets were actually fun to use against different enemies that were weak against them. The game played into the action and moment to moment decision making rather than being a shitty "Okay time for X boss I've already researched. Better equip the weapon I need for this one thing and use 15 buffs so I can kill it in a few hits for my ebin clip" simulator.

>>716004038
See you can tell this fanbase is complete frauds.

>>715995278
no, they expect you to ONLY fight while neglecting a lot of everything else

fucking retard can't even think of more than 2 things at once

>>716003871
>Well that's exactly what Shrine of Amana was
No, areas built around slowing the player's movement speed aren't fun or interesting.

>>716004049
>BB was the only game that was really interesting and fun on any level with damage types
BB is ridiculously primitive and a mindless R1 fest with poorly designed enemies, weapons and movesets

>>716004174
yeah they are

>>716003142
DS2 is the most punishing of fuck-ups, especially if you can't gitgud and remain hollowed the whole game (with the malus to max HP). Enemies routinely do 25% health per attack, so getting a gank squad on your tail generally means death. Some bosses are laughable (dragonrider), others are bullshit incarnate (blue smelter demon).

>>716003593
>another Tanimura hackjob
>passable
Not in a million years nigger.

>>716004221
Way to describe all modern Fromslop.

>>716003142
DS2 has a lot of depth to its systems on paper, the problem is the mostly unfinished enemies barely respect those systems and are largely just blobs of HP that clumsily shit out extra big ass hitboxes. So you can land a sour spot hit swinging your spear at an enemy that's too close and do shit for damage, but the enemy wouldn't have cared if it was a sweet spot hit anyway unless it would kill them.

>>716004341
What's supposed to be bad about that?

>>716003142
Yes DS2 is by far the most strategic and methodical. Shrine of Amana and Iron Keep aren't difficult because the enemies are any more challenging to press the roll button at the right time against, but because they punish you for rushing and making stupid decisions.

>>716004035
>You are not intelligent enough to play semantics with people
You using words objectively incorrectly and me rightfully calling you out on it isn't playing semantics, it's just you being a fucking retard who's mad he got called out for not understanding English.
>common knowledge to anyone who actually plays these games.
You retards said the same shit until the actual hurtboxes for jump attacks got shown.
>you're not here to actually discuss anything
Yes I am. you getting mad that I'm smarter and more knowledgeable about games than you doesn't change that.
>you've been caught empty handed multiple times
Where? Where specifically? I see you making nebulous statements and contradicting yourself while misusing words, but I don't see myself getting caught empty handed. I do see you getting caught with your pants down after telling me I was wrong in saying that ER has no mechanic complexity or depth and then you proceeding to lie and pretend you didn't argue that.
>You'll keep seething for many more years in the future though, that much I do know.
Your inability to read and comprehend English already gave away the fact that you're a retarded third world monkey child. You don't need to double down on that. I'll say it again because it bears repeating: learn English before you try to argue here.

>>715992489 (OP)
Because they don't? even in your webm it's still just some fag roll spamming the retard autism flail attacks from the enemy. Even if you highly choreograph some fights you're still limited to rolls or that timed buff Sekiro parry they added because they didn't wanna make it a core gameplay mechanic because they suck cock. People pretend you have so many choices in these games when you really don't, it's the same shit with different skins and stat requirements.

>>716001754
>why the immsim genre is dead in the water.
Botw and totk are multi-million sellers lol.

I rather play Lies of P than Sekiro, Elden Ring, or Blooborne since the gameplay is more tolerable than smashing roll and using shit weapons.

>>716004502
Self-report on not having played Sekiro.

>>716004221
>and a mindless R1 fest
Except for all the varied moves you get from trickweapons. BB is the only game where you use the weapon's full moveset fluidly. No, jumping and pressing R2 or L2 doesn't mean ER has good combat or movesets.

>>716004341
This is literally what real players do lol, they see the start of an attack and dodge on impulse and end up getting smacked when the attack is delayed slightly.

>>716004039
raya lucaria has a completely linear sub-area that circles back to the first bonfire, there's no intricacy in it

>>716004253
Fuck off, Miyazaki. Your swamps are shit. If the only idea you have for making environmental traversal interesting is "make the player move worse" then it's time to stop making games.

>>716004285
>Blue smelter
>Bullshit
His runback is bullshit incarnate, but the fight itself is plenty fair, you just need to LISTEN the same way you can regular smelter, you want bullshit? Look no further than ancient dragon or some of the boss fights on NG+ in Scholar

>>716004547
That's not what's happening, though. If the player aimed away, it would still happen because the enemies are reading the inputs of the player and not reacting to their actions. It's a shortcut in programming that ultimately harms the design.

>>716004407
The enemy reacts to the player's actions and he is really mad about it. He wants the enemy to be a helpless motionless dummy obediently waiting for the player to kill him, like all enemies in ds1.

>>715999456
>, instead of being an easily impressed midwit who randomly pulled off a ducking move and never managed to repeat it again
holy projection
also the issue to me with nioh is that, while it starts amazingly cool with the three stances, no matter how i play it always devolves into undeliberate garbage where i actively need to hold myself back to not delete the whole game with one shots or mindless spam. it just feels everything that made it great stops mattering the more you progress

>>716003609
beast claws are dogshit, monumental windups and more commitment than ugs on all attacks
hand to hand is boring as fuck, especially compared to bone fist, there's literally nothing interesting about the entire moveset

>>716004407
What's bad about shit AI? I don't know man. Maybe it's product of a shit game.

>>716004539
>Except for all the varied moves you get from trickweapons.
What varied moves exactly?
90% of BB's weapon movesets are literal filler, and I'm being generous here and not counting copypasted weapons on the already meager weapon list.

>>716004049
>Correct. And that's true
No it's not. There's entire mechanics around setting up combination of attacks. You are incentivized and pushed to combine and experiment attacks of various kind and different ranges exactly because of how deep and engaging Souls games are, but you wouldn't know because you got filtered

>>716004684
>The enemy reacts to the player's actions
Actually, the enemy is reacting to the player's input, which is dogshit design.

>>716000597
>, dodging attacks by just walking/sprinting without using a roll feels so good
i played DS2 without ADP and i loved rolling. You just had to do it in the right direction to actually evade the enemy attack. Like if the smelter demon is attacking you from a swing starting from near his head, you should probably roll to the side the swing is coming from which will make you go under it
dumbasses could not comprehend such a concept so they whined about hitboxes and arenas ad infinitum

>>716004539
You still press one button for all attacks so what's the point? There's nothing much going around to guarantee entertainment other than fighting boring easy bosses. There's a reason why I keep coming back to Lies of P instead.

>>716004626
Miyazaki cant make a good swamp level to save his life. He's a hack and is everything wrong with the series. In Shrine of Amana you're in knee deep water and move slower and that's a problem because you've got mages shooting spells at you every step of the way you need to dodge, creatures chasing and nibbling at your feet, restricted freedom of movement because of the pitfalls, and rolling puts your torch out which is a big deal because the torch can reveal the pitfalls. In Farron Keep it just wastes your time. There's no pressure or tension minus the poison which acts so slow anyway it almost doesn't matter. The swamp does fuck all to slow you down either because you have roll spam and get from one end to the other in 5 seconds. Shrine of Amana has more going on in one area than all of miyazaki's swamps combined.

>>716004752
From really needs to stop releasing their games like this.

>>716004819
>filtered
No game with RPG elements is difficult to beat.

>>715992489 (OP)
Adding a jump and some stuff is all good, but I mostly just want a return to the dungeon crawler/adventure feeling of DeS and DaS.

>>716004684
>The enemy reacts to the player's actions and he is really mad about it
If only, that would mean the game is actually well designed, instead it's just reading inputs and mindlessly flailing around

>>716004705
>shitter relies on sloth and living weapon in nioh 1 and brags about it
Amusing anon, tell me more

>>715992489 (OP)
>roll roll roll roll r1 r1
>roll

>>716004752
Why is the AI bad, let alone worse than the narcoleptic enemies from previous FROM games that couldn't even evade your shit?
Are you just mad that you can't park on their face and mash R1 like in DS3 or DS1?
Do you really want to go back to webm related?

>>716004883
>know that this is what these games are on a fundamental level
>it will still make people rage and seethe as they can't accept it because it has to be deeper than that
I love these games.

>>716004771
>What varied moves exactly?
Plenty of them. My last run was pizza cutter and Ludwig's sword. I had a short range blunt moveset for enemies that were weak to blunt, and longer range serrated moves for beasts. The sword gave me lots of range, and some projectile attacks as well as a piercing thrust that I used on ayyy enemies because they're weak to that. All of these moves were constantl at my disposal and easy to pull off so I mixed them up a lot depending on the situation and enemies. And for the love of fucking God, don't be retarded enough to say
>okay well those are actually the only 2 good weapons in the game and all the others have limited, useless movesets

>>716004883

>>716004341
You have been Btfo Every time you tried to post this webm where the player is forced to dodge multiple times.
Nothing is working incorrectly here, in no other game AI can actually dodge ranged attacks while being fair about it and predictable

>>716004656
>>716004285
Theres literally nothing wrong with Blue Smelter Demon or its runback:
The problem here is that you are trying to do the runback via the timed gate with the knights. Thats the worst fucking thing you can possibly do, that timed gate is complete bullshit. Just take the normal path, you will reach the boss in like 30 seconds without taking damage, or maybe one or two estus down
as for dodging his attacks, you can dodge everything both smelter demons do without a single point in ADP, or maybe a single point in ADP for higher reliability. Literally just gotta use your brain to think of the right direction for you to dodge and dont fall into any major screw ups

Now the red smelter demon on the other hand, that runback makes me want to kill myself

>>716004832
> player's input
Hmmm, I guess player input has absolutely nothing to do with player actions, I get it. Every day I learn something new about video games from people who have never played a video game in their life.

>>716004981
Every boss has cheese; he's considered one of the worst bosses in the game for a reason. But they're a fucking dime a dozen in ER

>>716004819
>There's entire mechanics around setting up combination of attacks. You are incentivized and pushed to combine and experiment attacks of various kind and different ranges exactly because of how deep and engaging Souls games are
This could be a sincere post, or parody making fun of Fromdrones. I can't tell. Also, I've been playing Souls games longer than you.

>>716004898
I see you just got filtered by god-tier combat mechanics, bro.

>>715992489 (OP)
dark souls-like gameplay is so bad. how is this thing, better than gacha, kek

>>716004883
blighttown was good
farron keep was a bit timewasting but it was actually interesting. i have a much bigger qualm with every other swamp-ish or dirty-ish area of DS3 because they feel so shitty and forgettable. Farron keep at least had me dealing with the huge ass motherfuckers that fire spirits
Its weird how much they toned down the poison in DS3 though. The poison, the normal enemies, their placements, the traps, all of that is practically irrelevant compared to in 1 and 2

>he swamp does fuck all to slow you down either because you have roll spam and get from one end to the other in 5 seconds.
this part is not true, walking through farron keep is so fucking slow that it made me really wish i had that one ds1 ring

>>716004857
>You still press one button for all attacks so what's the point?
No you don't. For example, in this post here
>>716005019
the piercing sword attack I talked about literally can't be done with a single button input.
>There's a reason why I keep coming back to Lies of P instead.
Thanks for saving me the trouble of taking your next post seriously.

>>716004883
>>716005036
>Needs to use Spook
Ds3 wins again

>>716005036
Based adventurer
Fromslopware doesn't design enemies like this anymore because everything needs to fly up into the air and do 20 hit combos now

>>716003216
>due to their popularity.
I'm happy that ER sold well. From can make more and (hopefully) better games. ER still sucks.

>>716004832
If it was reacting to input it would've dodged when the spell cast started, not when it finished and the projectile spawned.

>>716005036
i didnt think of using a torch, i just spent fucking forever staring at the floor and ended up falling down a few times

>>716004883
>He's a hack and is everything wrong with the series.
No, that's Tanimura.
>In Shrine of Amana you're in knee deep water and move slower and that's a problem because you've got mages shooting spells at you every step of the way
When did you learn English, Tanimura? There's no way another human being thinks this is good design.

>>716005094
>Also, I've been playing Souls games longer than you.
No you haven't, faggot
>>716004910
>Won't post his gameplay

>>716005190
thats just the very end stretch of amana that is deliberately really easy to just go past
now the second stretch is a different story, lets see you make that webm there

>>715998319
How im suppose to hold weapon in 2 hands if i have 2

>>716004341

For me it's facetanking and just merely holding a single button

>>716004981
He's just standing there and doing nothing. That's good AI? You lie on the ground in DaS3 and the bosses will bumrush you regardless.

>>716005279
>"what is good design if it's not pressing the roll button at the rigght time"
this is who from makes games for now. they sold out so hard

>>716005331
>thats just the very end stretch of amana that is deliberately really easy to just go past
Lol nice cope

>>716005019
No, I won't say that because you don't need any of that in BB, it's fundamentally poorly designed and your claims make no sense, Ludwig's sword for instance has no more range than a Hunter's Axe, a Reiterpallasch, a saw spear and what have you, I really have no idea why you praise BB's poorly made weapons and enemies but you whine about ER having the same exact mechanics but better executed at every level.
I could have taken you more seriously if you mentioned one of the few somewhat unique things like can do like eternally stunlocking things with the Whirlgig Saw but you didn't even do that, I'm just scratching my head here, but at the end of the day I know ER hate is just because it sold a shitton and you posers feel the need to virtue signal some nonexistent patrician status by praising worse games for doing the same things ER does but way worse.

>>716005038
>underage third world monkey talks about "btfo'ing" people despite not understanding how game mechanics work
>couples his worthless opinion with a shitty infographic he made that only reinforces how little he understands things
I've seen this episode before.

>>716005343
Dual wielding in ER is better than 2-handing every single time because the game was designed by retards

>>716005290
Not going to buy a capture card just for you fag.

>>716005249
>shit game sells well
>more shit games get released
There's a reason why the industry is in a big hole now.

>>716005415
nah youre disingenuous, youd never have that webm of the second section of amana
>your current video
Dude thats literally what im trying to tell people >>716005045, this is a so much better way to do the blue smelter demon runback and its trivial. Every fool on earth says its bullshit because they keep trying to do the timed gate for some stupid reason!@!

>>716005484
That's why I added hopefully.

>>716004670
How else would you make an enemy dodge attacks except with input reading?

>>716005089
>Hmmm, I guess player input has absolutely nothing to do with player actions
If the enemy is reacting to the player's actual button input and not the character's animation, then it's shit. I know you're a fucking retard who thinks "Well computers don't have eyes so that's how AI HAS to work" but that's not actually how AI works in good games. Try being just a little less ignorant about something you're arguing so passionately about.

>>716005515
I didn't even know there was another way to do it. That way is still annoying.

>>716005446
No that image is quite on point. You are meant to use the correct spell to bait and hit dodgy enemies.
The fact that this allows the enemies to cast at you is also part of the combat design.

>>716005268
Watch the entire weapon. The distance of the projectile to the enemy doesn't matter, nor does the spell hold time for the other spell used. The boss reacts the same time after the button itself was pressed for every spell. It's literally just an input read.

>>716005484
>>716005565
you guys are being too doomer
mark my words, in a few years, fromsoft will put out another new fresh take on their action games like Sekiro. it will be creative, fun, you will like it and wish more games did that
And then once again, dozens and dozens of shittier games will do an inferior shallow copy of that games' combat that misses the point of whatever made it good, and you will be incredibly fatigued of it before long. Maybe you will even retroactively start disliking their new game

>>715992489 (OP)
Dragons Dogma did Action RPG better

>>716005401
Regardless of the dubious nature of said Webm DS3 bosses are jokes.
>>716005447
It's absolutely not, god you people really don't play the games you shitpost about
Dual wielding/powerstancing is almost always worse than two handing, ESPECIALLY after SoTE put the fucking two handing talisman

>>715993505
>>715993621
>>715993695
>>715993781
>>715992489 (OP)
actually amazing, this is how ER was supposed to be played

>>716005290
>No you haven't, faggot
Post your first Demon's Souls trophy.

>>715998336
>years between releases
weren't they a yearly franchise since ds1?

>>716005415
Paid actor ass webm, the fuckwit with a greatbow never takes naps that long before firing, than again i play with champions covenant on so everything is harder

>>716005713
>Dual wielding/powerstancing is almost always worse than two handing, ESPECIALLY after SoTE put the fucking two handing talisman
Wrong

>>716005654
I expect the same, though I won't get fatigued of it because I mostly don't play the derivative stuff. Just pure From bullshit for me, thanks.

>>716005134
This webm is giving me flashbacks to Ornstein's janky dash attack

They see me
Rollan rollan rollan rollan rollan
They see me
Rollan rollan rollan rollan rollan
https://youtu.be/RYnFIRc0k6E

>>716005515
>nah youre disingenuous
I'm not the one posting Spook gameplay

>>716005447
Axes are much better 2h than dual wielded. Many big weapons also have decent guard when two handed

>>716005713
>bosses are jokes.
I'm definitely laughing at how shit ER cooypasted fights are.

But what if it's okay to like Elden Ring but acknowledge it isn't the best FromSoft game?

>>716005443
>your claims make no sense
I said that the weapons I used had multiple damage types across different ranges that I can use in different ways. What's hard to understand about that?
>Ludwig's sword for instance has no more range than a Hunter's Axe, a Reiterpallasch, a saw spear and what have you,
And which of those besides the reiterpallash can do piercing damage at range? Can the reiterpallash pancake enemies into the floor or knockback small ones? If it can't, then Ludwig's sword has unique use cases.
>I really have no idea why you praise BB's poorly made weapons and enemies but you whine about ER having the same exact mechanics but better executed at every level.
BB weapons have more varied movesets. This is objective fact.
>I'm just scratching my head here
Well that's because you're an idiot and you ignored everything I said about damage/attack type and tried to pretend that the entire conversation was just about range.

>>716005447
Not much reason to powerstance Reapers. Also not much reason to use Reapers at all, but that's besides the point.

>>716005714
I've said time and time again that the majority of people who plague these threads are shitters and that a lot of what /v/ parrots comes down to a skill issue.

>>716005476
No need, making webms is embarassingly easy. You just can't because you would fundamentally suck

>>716005635
>No that image is quite on point.
No, your ignorant underage third worlder image is not.

>>715998336
Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne were kusoge and I have no reason to care anymore.

>>716005591
This has to be bait, right?

>>716005757
Wrong what?
Dual wielding is only useful for mages who want a melee option to save up on FP.
STR builds want to two hand anything that isn't spears and maybe straight swords because you get immensely higher attack and stance breaking MV by two handing.
DEX builds have precisely two options where two handing isn't better, and those are curved swords and daggers.
The vast majority of powerstanced movesets are worse than either one handing or two handing and most non powerstanced setups are finnicky on PvE and only useful in some specific combinations for PvP.

>>716005695
dragons dogma had so many cool moves but its wasted because of the shitty flat damage system and snorefest enemy design/variety

>>716005695
Of course. DD had actual mechanics despite coming out a decade earlier.

>>716006048
Are you frustrated?

>>716006075
You thinking that input reading is how all AI works in games isn't bait, no.

>>716006121
This isn't strictly true depending on build. Status builds benefit from dual wielding, especially curved swords, since it's about hit count too rather than pure damage per hit

>>716006218
Okay, explain to me how it works. I'm sure you'll be able to provide an informative answer with reliable sources to substantiate your claim.

>>716006146
That 4chan (and the internet as a whole) went downhill when you monkeys got widespread internet access? Yeah.

>>716005954
Elden Ring has the largest enemy variety compared to any game ever. not only that but no game has enemies with attacks and animations as complex as Elden Ring.

>>716005695
/thread Fromtrannies are retarded.

>>716004341
There's no issue with this webm
It's exactly how it is supposed to work, delayed spells exactly to rollcatch players and get enemies that dodge

>>716005973
There's three different effective ranges in BB, close, mid and "long" and the vast majority of weapons fall into the mid and "long" categories outside of some extremely rare outliers like the Blades of Mercy, the multiple damage types in BB are less than a technicality as enemies are woefully undertuned and the player's math is wack as shit, your silly animation flourish doesn't mean the weapons have actual varied movesets

I rather play the chink clones since Fromslop is incapable of thinking past boss fights and rolls.

>>716005647
It reacts to the projectiles appearing every time. You might not know this since you don't play the game so you don't really understand the webm you're posting, but the projectiles for Rock Sling appear in the world before they get launched at their target.

>>716006396
>how it is supposed to work,
Of course Taimura games aren't expected to be good lmao

>>716006347
Wukong has more bosses and many have more moves than Elden Ring bosses

>>716006498
youre not unique anon. this place is full of faggots like you.
99% of threads consists of chinks and gooks shilling their coomer gatcha scams and unreal engine sloppas. youre just another tasteless nigger.

>>716006498
You're also an ESL and as such you're incapable of forming an independent thought.

Why don't people just run STR builds. Most engines in the game are super easy to stunlock. Malenia was a breeze when I learned how easy she is to stagger.

>>716006254
Yeah, which is why I mentioned Straight Swords, Curved Swords and daggers since they're the only weapon types where such a function can be applied in practice and not just on paper.
The utility of status MV for multiple hits is pretty dubious as it's a specific value that is not at all uniform, the chicken leg for instance can apply bleed faster than a lot of weapon through its charged R2, not to mention there's ashes of war with specific multihits that further facilitate status infliction, it's a bit of a can of worms.

>>716006597
doubt that very much. let me guess the only bosses youre counting from Elden Ring are the rune bearers?
no one be

>>716006347
Too bad none of them are fun to fight or complex.

>>716006661
Because I'm a DEXfag. I don't care what's better. I just care if it's DEX. I'll accept some Quality.

>>716006619
Fromslop is a scam for repackaging and reselling the same shit game for nearly 20 years. At least chinkslop has more innovation compared to them.

>>716006719
>>716006827
absolutely shit opinions that I doubt even you niggers believe in what youre saying.

>>716006661
Because STR is boring as hell and easy mode, the only STR build I can somewhat allow is sword and board and strictly straightsword sword and board

>>716006713
You've not played it obviously, so how would you know?
How many actual bosses (not copy-paste) do you think there are in Elden Ring?

>>716006943
50 something.

>>716006921
They're just writing shit to elicit anger from people, also because they don't actually play videogames, they're just here to make people mad on the internet

>>716007007
By my count it's 37 (although I think it is 52 or so with the DLC)
Wukong has 75

>>716007049
My gut is always right.

>>716007025
? name a game with a bigger enemy variety and one which their attacks are just as complex as Fromsoft games. you absolutely can’t.

>>716007108
>>716006597

>>716007108
meant to quote>>716006943

>>716006396
fucken rattled

>>716007176
you repeating this until the thread is archived dont many it truth you faggot.

>>716006341
How stupid do you have to be to try to argue about something you literally don't understand on any technical level, get upset when you're told that you're wrong, and then ask for an explanation in the desperate hope that the person won't give you one and then you can pretend you're right?
>with reliable sources
Nice trapdoor you tried to build for yourself there so even if I explain that good games have AI that do things like raycasts to make a vision cone to check if they can see the player and then what the player is actually doing, you can pretend that me not posting a source means it's somehow made up and that you have a point and that all games use shitty input reading. Unfortunately for you, I'm not an ignorant monkey like you so I can actually provide a real source talking about it.
https://youtu.be/RFWrKHM0vAg?t=181
Now you should kill yourself.

>>716006921
What's fun about it? Can I actually do cool stuff like climb and fly to beat up a giant dragon in the sky or am I just hitting their ankles for the millionth time? Can I throw an oil pot on the ground and have them slip and slide around on the ground, or is it just another boring status debuff? Explain to me how you think ER is fun. Genuinely asking.

>>716006347
>not only that but no game has enemies with attacks and animations as complex as Elden Ring.
Fucking BotW has more complex enemy animations and reactions than ER.

I like watchdogs 1 more than any fromsoft game. Except last raven.

>>716006436
It's kind of impressive how fucking stupid you are in trying to boil down every attack to "close mid far" and pretending nothing else matters, even though I explicitly listed multiple damage types and which kinds of enemies they work on. Why don't you explain to me how the "silly animation flourish doesn't mean the weapons have actual varied movesets" when the long range poke from Ludwig's sword will do more damage to a kin enemy than any sort of long range attack from the axe because that poke is pierce damage and they're weak to pierce. If you can't answer that question, then your claim about all the animations being superficial holds no water, and you're wrong and should shut the fuck up.

>>715992489 (OP)
because it's true

>>716006554
>It reacts to the projectiles appearing every time.
Wrong.
>You might not know this since you don't play the game
I'm not the anon that posted it, but that's literally my webm that I made from my own gameplay. I know Fromdrones are complete fucking retards who don't know how games work, but trying to tell me I didn't play the game when we're literally talking about my gameplay clip isn't a battle you're going to win.

>>716007430
Congratulations. You have better taste than OP faggot.

I had more fun charging up a spell for 20 seconds while my pawns attack the boss than i-frame rolling through every boss in elden ring

Dragon' Dogma gives you more options to play than dodge attack roll slop.

>>716007718
Based

>>716007263
It is the truth. You need to play more games

Fromtroons never played anything outside their rollfests, huh?

>>716007528
So you're really looking for trouble are you?
Yes, your damage modifiers don't matter in the grand scheme of things, mainly for two or three reasons
>Enemies are undertuned
BB enemies have no fucking health until several NG+, this is a massive issue the game has, there is exactly one fringe case in which this issue doesn't apply and that is Chalice Dungeons, but Chalice Dungeons also open up more problems about that which I don't really want to discuss here because they're not strictly related to what you wanna fight about.
Simplifying A LOT of the stupid math in BB, applying the correct weakness bonus to damage calculation in BB you get more or less a 20% increase for hitting the correct weakness, which by all means it's not bad but enemies are way too weak for this to matter unless you categorically refuse to engage in any of the progression systems BB has OR you're playing on NG+6 and beyond where you can actually sort of see the benefits
>The gem system
Gemming in BB allows you to boost your damage in a couple of ways, you either further add to your specific damage types (Piercing, Serrated, Righteous etc.) or you stack your basic physical damage, the latter further amplifies the problem because a global boost makes the nonthreatening enemies even less threatening for obvious reasons I really shouldn't waste time explaining in depth here
>Moveset/Enemy design
Enemies in BB are not designed with complex interactions in mind, nor are the weapons themselves, and not because the enemies have small movesets or anything, they're just too simple and weak, they lack mobility, they're unable to play defensively, many of them like Rom literally have zero defenses on their own and rely on ads to distract you, which is pointless because BB weapons have musou tier AoE and power anyway so you're mowing down shit effortlessly even when it comes to the DLC

So again, why do you praise BB for things ER does better and slam ER for that?

Why does FROM refuse to fix their dogshit camera systems in their games? Why does silly PS2 games where you fight along Donald Duck have a better camera than these clusterfucks. Why can't I zoom out? Why can't I rotate while locked on? Why does it randomly just break sometimes for no reason? How the fuck can they still not be fix this shit in ER.

>>715992489 (OP)
Okay now do it in a Str build faggot

>>716008436
Swap Bloodborne with Lies of P.

>>716008652
do you want the games to be hard or not?

>>716008436
Lies of P is garbage in both.

>>716008652
They haven't evolved past roll and I don't think they'll ever do.

>>716008436
Sekiro is From's most realized game in every aspect.

>>716008873
I want them to be well-designed

>>716001028
I don't mind feints in modern soulslop but when the game breaks Newtonian physics in how it stutters/tracks I get pretty fucking annoyed.
>ah yes this collosal arm I am swinging
>I can stop it magically
>this is a feint see
>momentum is a suggestion
Human brain gets confused enough by things that can actually happen in real life without having to resort to things that are physically impossible.

>>716009031
Sekiro is a mess of a game that is not only blatantly unfinished and rushed but it also never settled on any of the many identities it tried to adhere to.

>>716008528
>So you're really looking for trouble are you?
No, I'm just calling a spade a spade.
>Yes, your damage modifiers don't matter in the grand scheme of things
Wrong.
>BB enemies have no fucking health until several NG+, this is a massive issue the game has
Wrong. If you're fighting a group of enemies, or something like a head sucker, then killing any enemy in 2-3 hits instead of 4-6 hits can actually be a big deal. You're making it sound like everything dies in one hit regardless of what you're using, and that's just plain wrong. If you want to pretend otherwise, then show clips.
>Gemming in BB allows you to boost your damage in a couple of ways, you either further add to your specific damage types
The gem system is trash and despite the fact that I've actually wasted the time to farm the stupid fucking 27.2% attack gems with the "good" debuff, I can confidently say that most people don't engage with that system on any meaningful level. And even then, specific damage type additions aren't trivializing anything with gems you find in the base game or "normal" dungeons up through killing the queen.
>they're just too simple and weak, they lack mobility, they're unable to play defensively, many of them like Rom literally have zero defenses on their own and rely on ads to distract you
This is just a flat out lie. Rom is a gimmick boss, but most enemies are aggressive or try to trick and trap you. I don't know what you're even trying to imply by saying they don't play defensively. The entire game is built on aggression, both from you and the enemies. You have to kill them before they kill you, and having moves that can deal more damage at range and potentially stun or launch enemies is a huge boon.

>why do you praise BB for things ER does better and slam ER for that?
Because ER doesn't do it better. At all. ER has more builds that trivialize things (something you're trying to say BB has an issue with) and ER also has far less varied movesets with the weapons.

>>716009101
>mess of a game that is not only blatantly unfinished and rushed but it also never settled on any of the many identities it tried to adhere to.
Sounds like you're describing ER there.

>>716009171
ER literally has more functional stealth than fucking Sekiro

>>716009101
The only flaw with Sekiro is the camera in a few places.

>>715998997
>>715999069
I can tell you're shitposting because there wasn't an obsession with rolling until DS3

>>715992489 (OP)
Demon's Souls is better.

>>716009045
>they aren't well designed

>>716009171
Every Fromsoft game. Lies of P nor Team Ninja games had a problem with that at all.

>>716004705
>where i actively need to hold myself back to not delete the whole game with one shots or mindless spam
So... just like spamming Ashes of War in ER?

>>716009234
I can tell you're retarded because DaS2 is a bad game and DaS3 is a good game.

>>716009237
No. It's the same but more outdated.

>>716009214
Nobody on God's green earth used ER's "stealth" outside of the shitty forced segment in the DLC.

>>716007661
Then I'm sorry for your mental retardation that makes you unable to understand what's happening in the webm you recorded. Enemies react to projectiles spawning. They don't "input read on a fixed delay" and no amount of stamping your feet and screaming no will change how the game actually works. If they were reading the input and dodging with a delay, they would dodge Cannon of Haima with the same timing that they dodge other spells. But they wait until the projectile appears even though that's a much longer casting time than Glintstone Pebble or Rock Sling. Watch your own fucking webm again and see that the Godskin dodges at the moment the rocks appear from the floor. Not when the casting animation starts or at an arbitrary timing after it starts, but the very moment the rocks spawn.

>>716009227
No, the problem with sekiro is the rhythm game bullshit combat. I can get gud at parrying in a traditional fromsoft game but simon says bullshit is the line.

Gook and chink slop>>>>>Fromslop

>>716009880
Filtered.

>>716005695
>>716006136
>>716006381
You mean the game where you press one button to turn yourself completely invincible for five seconds while attacking all enemies in your immediate vicinity and there's no cooldown on this move whatsoever so you can just spam it over and over and be totally immune to all damage indefinitely until you run out of stamina at which point you pause the game and chug five stamina potions and keep going? You mean that game?

>>716009843
>They don't "input read on a fixed delay" and no amount of stamping your feet and screaming no will change how the game actually works.
What they actually react to is frame 1 of any animation, which is in effect the same as input reading. I'm sorry you're a fucking retard who doesn't understand the game you're arguing about.

>>716007290
You're so angry. You know I'm not even the same guy you were replying to originally, right? You need to control your autism. You spent the majority of your post impotently seething. Obviously I want you to provide a source because otherwise you're talking out of your ass. Getting angry that I asked for one makes you look like a nigger.
While this video is interesting this is also something that I don't believe could even apply to ER. They're vastly different games. Using "vision" to "read" animations in an game is a roundabout and strange way to handle how a boss reacts to player actions, if it would even work at all. On top of that I don't see how it would practically change the way bosses react to a player's actions in ER. They're still going to continue dodging your projectiles and punishing your heals in the same. Going "oh they can just do X instead of Y like in an actually good game" without considering the actual content of said game is retarded. I suspect you're not very intelligent and you use aggression to imply you're inherently correct and discourage a rational response.

>>716009119
>Wrong. If you're fighting a group of enemies
Enemy groups in BB are not only tiny but miserably weak, you're only gonna have some mild trouble with them if you're using stuff like the Blades of Mercy, maybe, the hunter is far too mobile for BB enemies and Rally being a thing means enemies have even less chances at killing you.
The only time I remember having to even consider my positioning and aggression from different sides was against the Living Failures and it was still easy, not to mention that on top of the ridiculous speed the vast majority of weapons in BB have trick modes that give you ridiculous AoE coverage to the point you have more or less no blind spot, the hunter axe alone steamrolls the entire game.
>The gem system is trash
Yeah, most of the systems in BB are, doesn't change the fact that it adds to those issues whether you like it or not.
>This is just a flat out lie.
Who exactly are those BB bosses that are so supposedly complex and aggressive to fight?
Gascoigne? Even if you ignore the music box trick gun counters alone completely shut him down, the only mildly dangerous thing he has is his own gun..
Cleric Beast? It's a ridiculously simple boss with a body so huge you'll be hitting it by accident.
Blood starved beast? It's all frontal charges and swipes that are easily avoided by dashing to the sides.
The mystery niggas? They have zero health and don't even dogpile on you even if they could.
Lady Mariah? She gets stunlocked to death by literally any weapon to the point they had to give them arbitrary no questions asked HA at some health thresholds to give them a chance at fighting back.
Not even gonna waste time mentioning the various downright garbage bosses like Witches of Hemwick
>ER has more builds that trivialize things
No anon, ER has actual builds, something BB does not have at all, which is another major problem BB has

>>716010004
>You mean the game where you press one button to turn yourself completely invincible for five sec-ACK

>>716009979
Fuck you!

>>716010014
No, they don't. They don't react to the beginning of a spell cast, they react when the projectile appears. Both webms demonstrate that. You're just making shit up now.

Souls gameplay peaked with DS2. Every game since has been a pale imitation of DS2's incredibly nuanced systems. Changing the physics or animations even slightly would throw off the balance but the end result is damn near perfect.

By the way I have a tested IQ of 138 so shallow basedguments like "Sekiro is a masterpiece because of flow state combat" don't work on me.

>>716010121
It's OK. Even if you beat it, I would have said you got filtered for not going on to beat all the boss rushes and also beating it with Bell Demon and no Kuro's Charm.

>>716009949
You are brown.

>>716010194
I didn't beat it.
It's not even worth the effort.

>>716010018
>You're so angry. You know I'm not even the same guy you were replying to originally, right? You need to control your autism. You spent the majority of your post impotently seething. Obviously I want you to provide a source because otherwise you're talking out of your ass. Getting angry that I asked for one makes you look like a nigger.
This is a lot of words to say
>I was banking on you being as ignorant as I am, and I'm very angry that you're not.
You're an ignorant retard who expects everyone to be on your level, and you're angry that isn't the case.
>Using "vision" to "read" animations in an game is a roundabout and strange way to handle how a boss reacts to player actions
No it's not, you absolute fucking retard. How arrogant do you have to be to continue arguing about mechanics in game design you didn't even know existed until a few seconds? That's not a rhetorical question.
>Going "oh they can just do X instead of Y like in an actually good game" without considering the actual content of said game is retarded.
No, what's retarded is getting a glimpse of how good AI in games works and then trying to insist that it only applies to 1 genre of game despite not actually knowing how any of it works.

>>716010243
I think it's more likely you were incapable of beating it.

>>716010161
>No, they don't.
Yes, they literally do. The game has been picked apart already. All of the "input reads" are literally enemies reacting to frame 1 of any animation.

>>716010336
>All of the "input reads" are literally enemies reacting to frame 1 of any animation.
Curious, how come none of that happens here

>>716010336
This is the most pointless distinction.

Fromsloppers need to tuck off to Reddit where they belong.

>>716000669
You can literally do all of those things in elden ring. I feel like half of the problem is that the game doesn't give you a tutorial to do all of these things so people assume they don't exist because they aren't creative enough to do them.

>>716010336
Look at all this input reading bro, literally reacting on frame 1 fr fr on god

>>716010261
I don't think you understand how it works either. I think you understand the basic concept but not how to apply it, just that you think they should. Otherwise you would have explained how you think it should be applied and function in ER rather than angrily make half of your post calling me retarded. I suspect I'm completely correct in my final sentence. I would have happily discussed the difference in systems but you've ruined any chance of a genuine discussion by acting like a nigger. Don't bother replying to this post. I will not read your post nor reply to it.

>>716010529
How about YOU go to Reddit

>>716000669
>>chain cancel your heavy attacks right before getting hit into doing one of the above instead of slowly chipping the boss with R1
This is the only thing in your post that you can't also do in ER.

>>716010025
The entirety of all of your arguments stems from the idea that enemies in BB aren't aggressive and go down from a couple hits from anything. Start posting webms of that happening or fuck off.
>ER has actual builds
Roll and poke with shield counter and jumping R2/L2. Tank and poke and shield counter or jumping R2/L2. Nuke everything with magic. Those are the "builds" that shit game with no actual classes has. And no, a meme setup for a boss that only exists to fight that boss is not a build.

>>716010087
Clearly you modded the game because that's not supposed to happen and has never once happened to me

Explain to me why Bloodborne looks better than Dark Souls 3 despite coming out before it. Also, explain to me why Dark Souls 2 looks worse than Dark Souls 1 in the same scenario.

>>715995071
But it should play like DS1. Anything but DS1 is garbage.

>>716010414
>how come none of that happens here
It does. Are you fucking blind? He reacts the same way to the spear any time he's in neutral, which is on casts 1 and 3.

>>716010415
It's still effectively input reading, I'm just stating what the actual mechanic is.

>>716010572
>the enemy doesn't have a programmed reaction for this move so the game doesn't input read
Why are you so stupid?

>>716010753
They all look like shit and outdated if you played more games outside of soulsslop.

>>716010834
Are you gonna tell me Fable looks better than Dark Souls 1 with a straight face?

>>716010678
I no longer have my PS4, but since you people are so annoying I might as well bother with ShadPS4 one of these days and start recording myself again.
>Those are the "builds" that shit game with no actual classes has.
There's much more than that and BB has factually less than what you mentioned, so again, why do you insist on praising BB but slamming ER despite ER having all of those mechanics but executed way better?
Oh wait, it's because nobody cares about BB and ER sold it literally by a literal 10:1 ratio so you feel personally attacked and have to defend the honour of a mediocre piece of software

>>715995465
You cannot parry every fucking thing. Some attacks force you to roll. Either that or cheese him with a Kamehameha like every other mage.

>>716010179
>IQ
pseudo-intellectual autofellatio

>>716010336
Then enemies don't input read spells at all, because they don't react frame 1 to the player's animation.

>>716010753
They're pretty similar in graphical fidelity but BB benefits from having a very similar setting throughout most of the game. 3 is more diverse in its visuals so there's more chance for it to look "ugly". It's mostly an artstyle thing.

>>716010887
There's more going on in Fable than in Dark Souls so it's a better game.

>>716010802
Black Knives literally don't have any reaction to uncharged lightning spears in their code, what you're seeing is range based behaviour.
What they do have however is a dodge reaction to charged lightning spears, which is also not a mysterious frame 1 reaction since what they're actually coded to react to isn't the first frame after a button input the frame that is marked as "projectile firing", which is also why they fail to dodge a lot of said charged projectiles.

So again, where are all these enemies supposedly reacting to frame 1 of any animations when factually they do not?

>>716001002
how the fuck is that a good thing? all it does is enable cheesing every boss by running to their back

>>716000778
Thank you Jason, very cool

>>716010580
>I don't think you understand how it works either.
Actually, I do. You don't get to act condescending and then pretend everyone is as ignorant as you to cover your ass. Some people actually understand things, and you need to come to terms with the fact that being ignorant while using reddit style "Let me tell you why I'm a rational internet debator" doesn't actually win you any arguments.
>Otherwise you would have explained how you think it should be applied and function in ER
You constantly asking for more and more details you don't understand isn't the iron-clad defense you desperately want to pretend it is. ER could use GOAP where decisions about the world are made through information enemies get through raycasts, especially with enemies roaming freely in the world, but that's obviously way beyond anything From is talented enough to do. A standard decision tree that worked off of some kind of line of sight system would make bosses, especially the really big ones, much better. The current system basically just puts them in a combat state and then has them react to player inputs, which is terrible.
>I would have happily discussed the difference in systems but you've ruined any chance of a genuine discussion by acting like a nigger.
No, you wouldn't have. You'd read or watch things I posted, think you had the full picture, and then in your grand ignorance tried to make a sweeping statement about why that doesn't apply to Elden Ring because some retarded shitskin monkey wants to pretend he's smart despite arguing about technical topics he literally doesn't understand.
>I will not read your post nor reply to it.
You won't reply, but you'll read it and get angry that I called you out for trying to mask your objective ignorance with posturing and a feigned air of aloofness.

>>716010993
I've always heard that 3 is built off of Bloodborne's engine as well which sounds plausible. You're right that Bloodborne is a rather dreary game that doesn't depict colors besides red and blue all that whereas Dark Souls 3 does have a wider range of areas. I suppose if I compare the Nightmare's swamps to Farron Keep, it's not that different in ugliness.

>>715996890
>i NEED to be able to stun EVERY enemy with le big sword

>>715993781
>>715993695
>>715993621
>>715993505
>>715992489 (OP)

I'll never understand how people find this combat enjoyable.

>>716010747
Sorry, but no.

Dodging and partying are better much less goofy looking systems. Not sure why rolling is such a staple of this genre still when it's not like you're sonic the hedgehog rolling across the map. you're still visibly getting hit. the visual thematic makes no fucking sense. at least with dodges you could extend the distance of the dodge to accommodate larger monster animations. then it wouldn't look as goofy as someone rolling into a giant dragon body slamming you but "iframes lol!!! you didn't actually hit me!!!"

>>716010892
>I no longer have my PS4, but since you people are so annoying I might as well bother with ShadPS4 one of these days and start recording myself again.
Can't wait for your webms with 27.2% gems where you kill a basic enemy in 2 hits with a +9 weapon.
>There's much more than that and BB has factually less than what you mentioned
BB has fewer playstyles, but has much more complex movesets within the playstyle it focuses on. Doing a few things in a very shallow manner isn't good, and that's why ER is shit.

>>716011189
Yup, I don't think either are "ugly" games but I think BB hides a lot of the bits people don't like about 3's visuals with its overall darker lighting.

They're all equally shit but Elden Ring happens to sell more because GRRM name carried it very hard and hid the fact that it was another boring uninspired clone.

>>716011292
>partying

>>716010960
>because they don't react frame 1 to the player's animation.
Wrong.

>>716011117
>where are all these enemies supposedly reacting to frame 1 of any animations when factually they do not?
https://youtu.be/XSbuGGnntRA
Here you go. Actual data. Now you can back up your claims about the game's code or you can shut the fuck up and kill yourself. There's no third option.

>>715995128
>muh movement and positioning
thats not a real thing you faggot just say you want to walk behind bosses to negate their moveset

>>716011138
>how the fuck is that a good thing?
How is enemies not having magic 360 noscope swivel spin tracking a good thing? Because some people aren't cocksucking Tanimura cum-addicted retards who think pressing the magic iframe button at the right time to negate some retarded tracking attack is good combat design.

>>716010542
>>716010664
How do you stagger PCR out of his attacks? The only ways I know is to parry or sometimes you can get a stance break.

>>716011467
GRRM is actually more of a stain on Fromsoft after the shit show GoT the show turned out to be and not finishing his sixth book and everything. Nobody cares about that fat pervert. I wish he wasn't involved. What part of ER was even thought up by him?

>>716011281
Years of refusing to play better games from better developers and being in a cult will do damage to your brain.

>>716011664
The foundational lore for the world so Marika and her family and shit. Knowing From, what probably happened is GRRM wrote a bit about how they rose to power and then From decided to set the game a few thousand years after that.

>>716010025
>Enemy groups in BB are not only tiny
One of the very first fights in the game is a squad of people and dogs in a plaza with various other enemies shooting in different spots. The Fishing Hamlet had the infamous well with the whaleniggers.
>Who exactly are those BB bosses that are so supposedly complex and aggressive to fight?
All of them. Even the Witches.
>ER has actual builds
Souls games don't have real character building.

>>716011362
>but has much more complex movesets within the playstyle it focuses on
It quite literally does not, you can't jump in BB, you can't guard counter, you can only hold two weapons, many of which are essentially the same thing, you lack basic options like Endure, you don't have movesets that incorporate evasive properties in your basic weapon moveset nor do you have enemies built around that, you can't powerstance, can't play around mobility options like the Dynast dodges, you don't have projectile counterplay, the list goes on.
BB is the shallow game of the two which is why nobody cares about it, it's still a way better game than Sekiro or DES/DS1/DS2 though I can give you that, just don't pretend it is more complex than it actually is.

>>716011664
He made sales happen and without his name alone ER would flop.

>>716011281
if you weren't old with a 200ms reaction time and allergic to taking risk you would understand

>>716010414
>use spell
>enemy immediately reacts
???

>>716011789
This is utterly delusional.

>>716011767
>It quite literally does not, you can't jump in BB
It quite literally does. You have jumping attacks on your moves that are more functionally different than the one size fits all jumping R2/L2 spam in ER.
>you can only hold two weapons, many of which are essentially the same thing
>BB weapons
>same thing
Oh okay, you haven't played BB and you're some kind of retarded console warrior. This argument makes a lot more sense now.

>>716011512
I think you should actually watch that video AND play the game because you clearly didn't do either of those things

>>716011589
and walking around a memorized moveset is? you can't possibly play the game that way without dying a bunch of times to know the right place to stand, and thats bad design

>>716011921
I've done both. I'm sorry the video shows frame 1 reactions to specific inputs and that it upsets you. Trying to twist my words or make worthless blanket statements won't change anything.

>>716011283
The only possible explanation is either you modded it or that was a rare glitch, I have 500 hours in DD and I've never once been knocked out of Dragon's Maw or any of the other moves that give you iframes.

>>716011914
So you're seriously saying stuff like the saw spear and saw cleaver aren't quite literally the same weapon?

>>716011512
>Wrong
Why are you lying about something that's so plain to see, it's even apparent in webms meant to show the "input reading"? Projectiles don't spawn frame 1 of a spell casting animation. Enemies react to the projectile spawning. They may react to frame 1 of the projectile spawning, but that's wholly different to reacting to frame 1 of the casting animation.
>muh data
You can look at the game with your eyes and see that enemies don't dodge at the start of the casting animation. Better yet, you could actually play it instead of parroting Youtube videos you don't really understand. Did you think poise was turned off in Dark Souls 3 too because muh data says poise is set to 0?

>>716011997
The only possible explanation is that you're wrong and angry about it.

>>716011993
You clearly did not because you don't know enemy coding only allows them to react to extremely specific projectiles and maybe some items other than your health sips, something that was also done in Sekiro by the way but curiously enough it was okay when Sekiro did it...

>>716012034
That's the one example I knew you'd go to. You said, and I quote
>>716011767
>many of which are essentially the same thing
Now list the many weapons that are the same. If you've actually played the game, I'm sure you can back up your claim.

>>716012089
>Why are you lying about something that's so plain to see
I could ask you the same thing.
>>716012089
>You can look at the game with your eyes
Sorry, but you don't get to bring up what's "in the game code" and then get assmad that someone posted actual data that objectively shows frame 1 reactions to specific player inputs.

>>716012147
Sorry, but no.

>>716012154
>You clearly did not because you don't know enemy coding
Niether do you. You brought it up hoping you wouldn't get called out on it, and you're angry that you did. You're an angry retarded monkey.
>extremely specific
No it's widespread. That's why everyone playing the game (who didn't have Tanimura's tiny dick lodged in their throat) noticed it and called the game shit for it.
>something that was also done in Sekiro by the way but curiously enough it was okay when Sekiro did it...
The heal bait-mikiri loop on Genichiro is gay and shouldn't have been in the game. Why are you pretending I'm defending that? Stick to one failed argument, faggot.

>>716011767
>you don't have movesets that incorporate evasive properties in your basic weapon moveset
Saif. You can block with Kirk and Holy Sword.

>>716012225
I mean, if you really want to go into it Ludwig's Holy Blade is 60% Kirkhammer, Burial Blade and Church Pick share most of their movesets too, generally speaking most of the weapons either meld together, have literal shared moveset or have slightly different animations for the same exact functions, the treaded cane and the beast cutter for instance are pretty much the same weapon for two different stats.
The amount of actually unique weapons in BB that have a fully unique behavior or function is pretty small.

>>716012353
Oh well you posted a screencap from the wiki. I guess that trumps how actual mechanics in the game work. You could just try it yourself instead of getting angry that you're wrong. If you've played DD as long as I have, you know how easy it is to get to midnight helix and find a gargoyle that can grab you.

>>716012506
>You could just try it yourself instead of getting angry that you're wrong.
>>716011997
>I have 500 hours in DD and I've never once been knocked out of Dragon's Maw or any of the other moves that give you iframes.

>>716012474
>I mean, if you really want to go into it Ludwig's Holy Blade is 60% Kirkhammer
Wrong. You're saying that and hoping no one will call you because they're both swords themed around the moonlight greatsword. They aren't similar at all outside of sword shaped.
>Burial Blade and Church Pick share most of their movesets too
Again, wrong. Who do you think you're going to fool?
>the treaded cane and the beast cutter for instance are pretty much the same weapon
The only way you can even pretend to think this is if you're actually retarded enough to say "Anything that does serrated damage in a general cone in front of you is the same moveset". So tell me anon, are you retarded enough to say that?

>>716008652
99% of the series' difficulty stems from dogshit player inputs and interface.

>>716012407
I do actually, which is why I posted clips showing that behavior, if you want more I can happily oblige though.
>No it's widespread.
It isn't, and I'm here keep showing you proof of that while you shriek and moan about nonexistent issues and making appeal ad retardation, the vast majority of people have no idea what they're talking about and that includes you

>>716008652
turn the lock on off you retard
the camera is doing its best in this situation

>>716012552
So test it out. Start the game, ferry stone to BBI, and run to midnight helix and try it. The entire thing would take less than 5 minutes to try. "I've played a lot and never seen it" is absolutely fucking retarded and means nothing. I also have hundreds of hours in the game and still see new things I haven't seen before occasionally when I play.

>>716008652
Why are you letting him push you up against a wall? Unironically skill issue.

>>716012679
Why would I need to test it out when I've already used the ability 50 billion times while playing the game normally?

>>716012685
I don't think it's possible to fight that second Lion without either you or your camera being pushed against one of the pillars.

two schizos rambling about their roll slop bumped this thread to 500+

>>716012620
>N...no it's wrong
Untricked Kirkhammer shares the same moveset as Untricked Ludwig anon, no ifs and buts around it, don't think you can trick people into thinking otherwise because nobody played BB

>>716012651
>which is why I posted clips
Your clips don't magically make a bunch of actions not trigger frame 1 responses that are functionally identical to input reads.
>It isn't, and I'm here keep showing you proof
You showing instances where it doesn't happen doesn't mean it never happens, nor does it even mean that it's rare.
>appeal ad retardation
Why are redditors like this?
>the vast majority of people have no idea what they're talking about and that includes you
I was objectively correct about how frame 1 reads work. You getting angry about it won't change reality, nor will your webms change that immutable fact. ER has shitty enemy AI that reacts to frame 1 of a lot of moves, and only severely mentally retarded people who don't know anything about good game design think that's okay.

>>716012810
>I don't think it's possible to move towards the center of the arena if I ever find myself drifting towards the edges of the arena

We should all just play ac6 and forget rollslop.

>>716012761
To see if that specific attack can damage you while you're using dragon's maw or not.

>>716012917
>either you or the camera
If you're in the middle and spin your camera gets fucked by the pillars

>>716012852
>Untricked Kirkhammer shares the same moveset as Untricked Ludwig anon
No it doesn't, you lying faggot. And even the few similar moves it has doesn't mean it's the same when the range, speed, and stagger is completely different. Don't think that no one here has played BB just because you haven't. I'm sure when you looked up their movesets on fextralife like the dumb faggot you are, you thought they were the same, but anyone who's actually played it knows they don't play the same at all.

>>716012286
I'm not arguing whether they react to frame 1 of "specific player inputs". I'm arguing that they do not dodge on frame 1 of spell casting animations. Whatever other semantics you want to argue about, I don't give a shit. You've claimed that enemies dodge on frame 1 of the casting animation when they very clearly don't dodge until the spell creates a projectile. Not even the other retards who were posting about input reading in the first place tried to argue that they were dodging on frame 1 of the casting animation, they at least tried to come up with the (wrong) explanation that the dodge was on a delay.

>>716012898
>You showing instances where it doesn't happen doesn't mean it never happens,
You were the one who said that "enemies react to any actions on frame 1", which isn't true because all enemies are coded to react to extremely specific things that are either some projectiles or your health sips, more often than they react to neither too
>I was objectively correct about how frame 1 reads work
No you weren't, you just posted a video you did not understand because you don't actually play the game while I keep posting clips that show you how your claims are wrong.
Just say you want to go back to the boring, mindless enemies that you can R1 to death at no effort, we all know ER is too hard for you

>>716012965
OK then you didn't mod the game but it's a glitch instead, which is also what I suggested might be the cause of that. Why would one single attack be the exception to the rule that applies to every other attack unless it's simply a bug?

>>716013003
If you're in the middle the pillars are too far away to get between you and the camera. If the pillars are in your face then you're not in the middle.

>>716013043
Oh wait, now you're conceding they do share "some similar moves"?
That really says it all, lmao

The butterfly move is really good against the Lion.

>>716010004
The game where I can do cool shit like this.
>there's no cooldown
Good. Cooldowns are lame as fuck. Imagine wanting that shit in real-time games.

>>716013043
What move is different between untricked Ludwig and untricked Kirkhammer? The tricked movesets are different but anon was specifying that the untricked form is the exact same straight sword for both. Kirkhammer's is a little shorter but every move is the same as Ludwig's.

>>716013169
>I'm not arguing whether they react to frame 1 of "specific player inputs".
They do, and that includes reacting to most spells with a consistently offset dodge.
>You've claimed that enemies dodge on frame 1 of the casting animation
Are you fucking stupid? Can you read? Have you seen the webm I posted?

>>716013181
>You were the one who said that "enemies react to any actions on frame 1", which isn't true
Yes it is. When enemies react to certain player actions, it happens when the enemy is in neutral and the reaction is triggered by frame 1 of the player's animation. There's nothing else to argue about. You're objectively wrong if you're pretending that isn't how the game works.
>we all know ER is too hard for you
Nothing about the game is hard unless you're a retard who only dodges and then pokes.

>>716012685
Why is FROM refusing to fix their dogshit camera is the real question.

>>716010004
>You mean the game where you press one button to turn yourself completely invincible
That's literally what rolling does lmfao. Fromdrones have no self awareness.

>>716013365
Which webm have you posted showing an enemy dodging on FRAME ONE OF A SPELL CASTING ANIMATION? Not to be confused with FRAME ONE OF A SPELL PROJECTILE APPEARING, which is a completely different event that happens many frames after the spell casting animation starts.
>consistently offset dodge
Still wrong. It's not consistently offset, it's when the projectile spawns. Watch the webm I posted for that.

>>716013510
They've gotten better with it in some departments but it's pretty embarrassing to have a boss with ubiquitous camera issues like the Lion for a DLC.

>>716013471
So now they react to "certain player actions" and not "any reaction on frame 1"...hmmm, some little steps forward I guess.
>You're objectively wrong if you're pretending that isn't how the game works.
I've been saying that they react to only some specific player actions since the very beginning so no, you're the one off his meds who's now changing your claims to save face.
There's also literally nothing bad about it, it's how proper actions games work, that would be like complaining about DMC3 Virgil also reacting to a lot of your inputs and punishing you for being careless

>>716013268
Could you at least pretend to read posts you make shitpost replies to instead of being an illiterate retard? lmao

>>716013361
The transforming attack.

>>716013361
They do have slight differences untricked. Both weapons also have special trick attacks that no other weapon also gets that's unique to them.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lCOqzHbSn-4

>>716013609
>showing an enemy dodging on FRAME ONE OF A SPELL CASTING ANIMATION?
Where have I said the dodge happens on frame 1? The enemy reacts to frame 1 in that their next action is decided on it, but there's an offset with dodging.

>>716006029
Buy me a capture card then.

>>716013692
>any reaction on frame 1
Putting words in my mouth to argue a strawman doesn't make you any less retarded. And typing like a faggot doesn't make you seem clever, it just makes you seem like a faggot.
>who's now changing your claims to save face.
When did I claim what you're pretending I claimed? And no, saying "They react on frame 1" doesn't mean "Enemies react to every single player in put on frame 1."
>There's also literally nothing bad about it,
This is what you should have been arguing from the start, but yes this is shit.
>that would be like complaining about DMC3 Virgil also reacting to a lot of your inputs and punishing you for being careless
Vergil does it so you can't do shit like cheese him by whittling all his health down with guns. Don't fucking pretend DMC works like ER, you Fromdrone faggot.

>>716014062
>Putting words in my mouth
I'm not putting any words in your mouth, you quite literally said just that.
Here, let me remind you once again:
>>716010014
>What they actually react to is frame 1 of any animation, which is in effect the same as input reading.
That's exactly what you said, no more no less, either you admit you were just blatantly shitposting or you own what you just wrote and repeated multiple times throughout this horrible thread.
>Vergil does it so you can't do shit like cheese him by whittling all his health down with guns.
oooooh but when ER does the same exact thing to not let you cheese bosses with fireballs like in all the Souls games it's bad.
Typical double standards of all disingenuous shitposters.
Also you can still cheese Virgil with DT explosions, Killer Bee and what have you so don't pretend DMC is somehow better off

>>716012034
They aren't. They have different uses. Spear is better for poking stuff and playing it safe, and Cleaver is good for vertical attacks. You're not going to use ARC with the Cleaver for example.

>>716014297
I have never seen anyone cheese Vergil with DTE and KB.

>>716014297
>That's exactly what you said, no more no less
Follow the actual conversation from the start, retard. I never said it was all player attacks, just that when they do react via an "input read" that it's a frame 1 reaction. Putting words in my mouth won't make you sound any less retarded.
>oooooh but when ER does the same exact thing to not let you cheese bosses with fireballs like in all the Souls games it's bad.
When a much slower game with fewer mechanics has tons of enemies that ignore you to the point that you can literally lie down in front of them and only get aggressive when you press a certain button, yes, it's shit.
>so don't pretend DMC is somehow better off
I'm not pretending, and I'm happy you looked up some youtube videos but you're not going to cheese Vergil's health down with DT explosions unless you're also spamming purple stars.

>>716011281
You should play Bloodborne and then you will understand.