Will video games ever be taken seriously as an artform?

I hope not, that way all the failed hollywood faggots will finally leave.

>>716009602 (OP)
>cinema
>better
lmao

>>716009602 (OP)
>taken seriously
that's your problem cuckman

>>716009917
Obviously Marvel slop and anything with a multi million dollar budget is the same consumerist trash that most video games fall under.
But smaller budget films can still be art. Just like some indie games have brushed up against being art a few times.

videogames are literature + music + cinema though

>>716009602 (OP)
not when "movie" games are shit on

>>716010150
this desu
its just a combination of different forms of art
plus you can count painting/drawing too

>>716010303
Moviegames are shit on because they aren't taking advantage of the medium. They're aping cinema while failing to achieve its heights and ignoring their own medium's strengths.
"Genre Fiction" and "pulp novels" are the same way and shit on exactly the same. They ape low depth action movies in novel form, but fail to take advantage of their own strengths.

>>716010150
Uh oh, normalfags won't like this.

>>716009602 (OP)
Video games aren't art

>>716009602 (OP)
Same as animation. It's children's entertainment to them and no amount of trying to convince them otherwise will work

>>716009602 (OP)
Truest arts to fakest arts
>paintings/drawings/sculptures
>music/literatue/dance
>cinema/vidya

>>716010862
Define art

Kind of a strange image considering that the video game industry is far bigger than any of the others.

>>716009602 (OP)
Video games completely overshadow the other three in terms of profit though, so who gives a shit what they think?

>>716010862
Dance has gotta be the lowest form of art, even lower than vidya.

Remember that one artfag bitching about his unfinished dragon sculpture next to the little wood dude sucking himself off? Something being "Art" doesn't matter much

>>716009602 (OP)
Don’t make me start a campaign to rename video games as "e-games." Also, by traditional standards, art should be useless and non functional in the pursuit of beauty and aesthetics. Your game can count as art if it’s truly unplayable shovelware because then it’s less about being a game or entertainment, and more about the concept. And no, Monopoly isn’t art anymore, especially after that rich guy bought the rights and literally rebalanced it

>>716009602 (OP)
No, the interactivity makes it a toy
longplays are art though
and "art" is a category, not a value judgment

>>716010942
Engineered emotion.

>>716011325
>interactivity
interpreting and experiencing art means interacting with it

>>716009602 (OP)
Videogames offer nothing intellectually, morally, or philosophically. Even the most pretentious philosophygame (do they even exist?) will teach you less than the shittiest absurdism essay from a c-average high school student

>>716011425
you know what I mean, pedantic faggot

>>716009602 (OP)
current games are shit, not denying they look good but aren't as in the past.
you can see this with older games when you had different options for characters along clothing and other details but currently most are generic keeping one stuff.
not even joking found it funny that FFVI remake didn't had clothes options comparing to an indie RPG released in 2014 on dlsite which had far more clothes options then the modern game.

>>716009602 (OP)
Ironically, video games make more money than all 3 of these mediums combined

>>716010942
art = what i like
not art = what you like

>>716009602 (OP)
lol is that from family guy

>>716011443
>videogames offer nothing intellectually.
learnt how to make nitroglicering from a game, learn how to make a tesla coil from a game.
so yes they have educational and intelectual purpose.
just because you consume the lowest denominator U.S garbage game doesn't mean everyone does the same.

>>716009602 (OP)
it'll take time but yes

>>716009602 (OP)
Literature, music and perhaps even movies have become almost irrelevant as artforms. They have very little cultural impact in the modern world. Very few people actually read books. And when is the last time that music had any kind of impact? It has been decades or even longer since music has been genuinely controversial, political or represented any youth movement. And when it comes to movies, most people just stream on Netflix these days, most people don't even go to the theater. TV shows have become more important.

Meanwhile video games dominate culture especially for people under 40 or so.

>>716011443
The same could be said from many books, movies, paintings and music but we dont simply dismiss them as "not art"
Hell, the lack of meaning or reaseon could itself be an art; see dadaism
Or is "LSD: Dream Simulator" not an artistic-minded game?

>>716009602 (OP)
I hope not because the examples being constantly pushed are the ones that are also movies pretending to be video games.

>>716009602 (OP)
>cinema
all cape slop garbage
>music
the same shitty profanity rap music
>literature
modern people cant read
>video games
gacha slop
i think art is just dead and everything is just consumerism

>>716009602 (OP)
I don't take games seriously, either. They're too fun for that. I just like playing games period, whether they're video or traditional. If someone knocked on my door right now and challenged me to a game of bocce, I'd do it. Pool? Yes. Ping Pong? Yes.

Games are an amazing gift to mankind. Like it still amazes me that we play games over a thousand years old like chess. The only thing I take seriously is game design, because it's fun to pick them apart and see what makes them tick and why I enjoy them so much.

>>716013027

>>716009602 (OP)
Doesn't matter when we make the most momey.

>>716009602 (OP)
Video games don't deserve to be taken seriously. Case in point, it's the only one out of those mediums where remakes that shit all over the original are praised and the original work is deemed "outdated, archaic, and no longer worth experiencing". How can you consider it an artform when the "art" can be so easily thrown in the trash just due to the passage of time? It's like saying the Mona Lisa is no longer good because we have different art forms now that are made with more advanced technology.

>>716013614
What a fag. Video games won't be art until boomers and most of genx die off op. Then it'll start.

>>716013815
Video games being art is directly incompatible with the common notion most people have that video games "age" and that we need remakes to modernize them. The 1983 version of Scarface doesn't invalidate the 1932 version. A modern band doing a cover of an old classic doesn't invalidate the classic. Yet in video games, a 2025 remake apparently invalidates the classic that came out 20 years ago just because camera controls are a little better now. Even if the creator had zero input on the remake. Because fuck the original artist, that's surely what a real artform would do, say "fuck the artist", right?

No, because majority of games are either literal timewasters or esports slop.
The shit that passes as 'art' in videogames for most people is the equivalent of mind-numbing trash, too.
Games that I think actually transcend the medium (doesn't mean they're the only games, or that they're my favourite games because most of them aren't, but are clearly not just 'a game')
>Deus Ex
>Metal Gear Solid 1-4
>Fallout 1 and New Vegas
>Silent Hill series
>Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne and Elden Ring (and before someone complains 2 is my actual favourite in the series, but it's very gamey)
>Disco Elysium
>STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl
>Escape From Tarkov
Not so coincidentally most of these games focus a lot on atmosphere; it's gaming's strongest strength as a medium. The average movie cannot spend hours upon hours on low-level 'immersion' within a world. Also not so coincidentally half these games just rip off a great work from another medium

>>716009602 (OP)
This or psychologist worst episode

>>716014037
They have remade the bible many times.

>>716009602 (OP)
Why would you want it to be?

>>716009602 (OP)
Somebody wasting their life in books, television or movies is no different than somebody wasting their life playing video games. An unhealthy addiction is bad no matter what it is.

>>716009602 (OP)
Fuck no lmao

>>716009602 (OP)

>cinema
>film experts led by the likes of Martin Scorsese spend thousands of hours researching the original work, interviewing surviving production members, excavating old forgotten film reels from ancient archives, with the main purpose of bringing the true original vision back to life
>converts all their research documentaries, commentary tracks, behind the scenes footage, interviews etc. all included as additional content
>costs $14
>audience is smart enough to intelligently critique any small addition or color grading that might not have been intended by the director and still consult the original work when warranted

>video games
>anonymous suit working at Activision tells some Indian sweatshop they have 8 months to recreate the game in Unity, with the main purpose of making the stock holders happy
>tells them to watch a youtube video for reference, because nobody ever bothered saving the original source code or any of the original assets
>none of the original creators are ever consulted, but nobody cares because the audience just knows it as an "Activision game"
>final product barely resembles the original game
>costs $79.99 and you lose access to the game after 2 years
>audience eats it all up because it's easier to masturbate to the female characters, and will instruct new players to just play the remaster instead of the original title

>>716009602 (OP)
the harder they tried to be art the less art they became

The only reason video games aren't seen as "art" is because of boomers (who still hold and control most of the wealth btw) not understanding the new medium and viewing it as something juvenile for children.
It's the outdatedly perceived audience of video games (children, losers in their parents' basement etc.) and not video games on their own that somehow defines them as not "art". But they're actually total works of art (Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk) because they combine several forms of art (visuals, writing, music etc.) into a single work. It's like saying theatre isn't art (fuses music with costume and acting performance) or movies (too many seperate artistic elements to name) aren't art. The only disqualifier just seems to be who is perceived to be enjoying it.
>video games are for kids and low lifes, therefore it isn't art
So yeah "video games are not art" is just classist/elitist bullshit
Will it ever be taken "seriously"?
The recent round of Hollywood movie/tv show remakes vs their terrible fan reception shows that yes they can be.

My goty is stellar blade. I dont give a flying fuck about art.

>>716014853
>3tards pretending 1gods have any respect for them

>>716014898
I think that's just a general societal decline. Hollywood is presently in a worse situation than vidya. Film festivals still shit on all triple A thobeit

Literature is the art form most abused by humans. 99.9% of what is written is pure garbage. Sometimes even renowned people considered great modern thinkers write garbage that isn't even good enough to wipe your ass with.

>>716015197
and yet 99.9% of it is better than every video game ever made

>>716015230
You don't read. You just see a book and think "oh yeah, that's a thing for smart people, better than a video game, which is for dumb people." You're judging the medium by who you think consumes the medium.

>>716009602 (OP)
Do big budget artsy "games" even sell? Those western ones that try to be indie house shit?

I never cared about the debate. I like to have fun and enjoy myself. Life is too short not too live it my way.

>>716009602 (OP)
not with FAGGOTs like druckmann around

>>716009602 (OP)
Thinly veiled /tv/fag still seething that video games have completely overtaken movies as the biggest entertainment media

>>716015330
No. Likewise arthouse films infamously dont sell either. The vast majority of normalfags dont give a fuck about art.

>>716015380
>Hannibal
Fuck yes. I have the cookbook.

>>716009602 (OP)
They already are. Games that lean into being art are appreciated by their fans and will be studied as art as society ages into video games being mundane and not "the toy you buy for your kids in the information age."
The artistry of interactive software is like patently obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than 2 seconds.

>>716014898
I too like to pretend that Fast and Furious and Marvel doesn't exist

>>716011443
>pretentious philosophygame (do they even exist?) will teach you less than the shittiest absurdism essay
Video games are not valuable art because they're a fucking lesson on someone else's work. They're art because interactive software is a completely different medium with its own language and rules with which designers can have a conversation with the audience, in the same way that a director uses the camera frame to tell the audience what to look at, or how a writer uses the exclusion of detail to draw the readers towards a specific shared image in their heads.

>>716009602 (OP)
Nope. Hollywood doesn't take any nerd medium seriously, even though they've been heavily dependent on superheroes for the last two decades and are now switching to video game movies as their next big bread winner, since they rode capeshit into the ground.

>>716015230
Somebody post "the more she drank, the more she shart" passage please

>>716014083
the tuning and work that goes into making an esports game like CS work is enough for its artistry. it might not be trying to play with your emotions, but making virtual environments in software where simply moving, looking, shooting, etc. are pleasurable and interesting is a legitimate craft.
Games that are "gamey" have just as much a claim to being art as games that have "artsy" traditional elements like beautiful music or visual assets.

>>716015003
>guys, if we say video games are art, then they'll take away my sexy wahmen
french new wave is among the most "art"-like films and harbors among the most blatant sexualization in film. being unashamedly sex-driven != not art

>>716015230
Counterpoint: My Immortal.

>>716015891
Only applies to westerners. See BG3.
Asian sex media is a no no.

>>716013614
Movies get trashy remakes all the time, what are you saying? We just had a Lilo & Stitch live action demake that made gangbusters despite explicitly shitting on the message of the original.

How can you look at zanzibart shit like elden ring and think that's art?

>>716016034
nier automata was horny and very casually fanservice-y and nobody gave a fuck because yoko taro didn't call overintellectualize it. stellar blade was astroturfed as being some return to form for sex in asian games when it never left. people just overexaggerate because
>some CG gets censored in a western release
>steam stupidly removes some game like dungeon summoner
but in truth you can buy whatever sexy asian vidya you'd like. nobody really questions the artfulness of nier automata. people question stellar blade because despite how much I like it, it's diet nier automata with more sex.

>Cinema
Has been garbage since forever

>>716009734
FPBP

>>716013614
>>716014037
that has more to do with the people surrounding games than the actual medium itself, though that doesn't really take away from the validity of your point. it just so happens that the perception around them needs to change more than anything. personally, i'm of the opinion that remakes don't invalidate the games before them when they're not outright inferior (which they are, most of the time). even when they manage to surpass the original, the original still has plenty to offer what the remake doesn't, see: re1 and its remake

Art is the experience had. And that includes video games. It's completely irrelevant what someone says, if you had a certain experience from something someone created, and you can reflect on it, it's art. No amount of crying to the contrary will change this.

Having memories of the time you and buddies got stranded in the woods and bonded together before getting out isn't art. But something that can create that experience in you, is. I look back fondly on memories from games and the characters within them. Just as if a book made you imagine it in your mind, or a movie made you feel it in your heart. It's art, get over it.

>>716016138
It made a lot of money but you don't see anyone saying it replaces the original Lilo & Stitch. You see more of the opposite actually. My issue is less with these remakes doing well financially and more the attitude the gaming public and journos have with them versus the originals.

>>716013614
>>716014037
You live in a bubble. no one gives a shit about 1930s scarface and there are a shitload of cover songs orders of magnitude more popular than the originals. only fart sniffing posers even know that 1995 heat is a remake while people complaining about videogame remakes are all over the internet, and i'm not just talking about 4chan

>>716016262
>muh nier automata
Because it was popular. Because it was shielded from criticism.
How many of these journos would say the same for say an adult VN with rape, and guro that also touched on highly philosophical themes like MuvLuv or Saya no Uta?
Nevermind anime and manga.
Also Stellar Blade's devs never intended it to be part of some culture war. Hell they dont even know or mention anything about it because asians in general do not care about western sociopolitics. They just marketed the game as well as they could showing its appeal and strengths, which was visuals and music.

French media routinely has lesbians finger banging each other in graphic scenes and the west turns a blind eye but asians make similar products and suddenly it's an affront to nature itself.

>>716016659
Also, Nier Automata barely had any fanservice at all. It had the most safe horny shit like bare ass and thighs, which you had to go out of your way to see. Nothing like old video games where women could boldly show cleavage, big tits, or just strut around naked.

>>716016849
>where women could boldly show cleavage, big tits, or just strut around naked.
What old games do that? That aren't porn or asian

>>716009602 (OP)
>>>/tv/

>>716009602 (OP)
i don't care

>>716009602 (OP)
why does it matter? vidya makes more money than all of those combined.

>>716016924
Duke Nukem.
Also ironically, Ubisoft's Prince of Persia before Ubisoft got woke.
You can see this reflected with how gaming used to be advertised on magazines where it showed off barely dressed vidya chicks and everyone was completely unashamed of it because gaming was made by men for men.

>>716014853
>sneaking 3 in there

>>716009602 (OP)
correct if I'm wrong but doesn't the video industry makes more than the other 3 combined?

>>716017135
And how could I forget god of war.
Basically any action game that had female enemies also had them semi naked. Warcraft 3 even had all the default female models have D cups especially the high eld sorceress.

>>716017218
Yes, but only because 'gamers' are retards and get scammed more than anyone else. It's an extremely expensive hobby compared to other forms of media.

>>716010862
ass backward
the highest forms of art involve the most interaction from the audience

>>716009602 (OP)
>artform
they're toys. you play with them. do you consider playing with toys an art form?

>>716009602 (OP)
im not here to say if videogames are art or not, im here to say that people who seriously think OP are trivial normalfags

>>716017838
This. You can watch a movie for 20 bucks, maybe 40 with concessions. But after that you're done with it. Meanwhile for vidya 50-60 is the bare minimum and you have to put up with dlcs and god forbid, mtx. Nevermind that the real reason it makes so much money is live service. Netflix only wants maybe 10 dollars every month, meanwhile for vidya you have to pay 20 dollars for 1 skin for 1 character.

>>716009602 (OP)
>Cinema
Dead.
>Music
Diluted to the point that no one listens to the same shit, and the "mainstream" pop music is hated by virtually everyone.
>Literature
Taken over by femcoomers who read bestiality smut.

Vidya are not art
If I update literature, I am raping the original work and ruining the work of art.
If I update cinema like George Lucas and Spielberg did, then I am raping the original work and ruining a work of art.
If I update a piece of music I better be making a new cover rather than replacing the original, or I just enraged everyone who liked the original song, raped the original work and ruined a piece of art.
If I update a video game, then it is par for the course. If anything, not updating a video game is raping the work.

Therefore video games are not art.

When Samuel Taylor Coleridge sat to write down Kubla Khan he had hundreds of verses in his head all from a dream that he rushed to write down as quickly as possible, only to get a knock at the door at line 54 forcing him to answer the door and forget the rest of the poem by the time he sat down to write again. Tolkein wrote 14 pages of a LotR sequel before canning the whole thing for being "not worth telling." If someone in either Coleridge or Tolkien's families came along and added their fanfiction to both examples, overwriting the original works so you can't get them without their additions, is that not absolute rape of the art? Lucas did this in movies and we agree it ruins the original work. Now, imagine having that attitude when Cyberpunk 2077 released and making it impossible to fix because you want to preserve the 'artistic vision'. Shit just doesn't apply.

>>716017963
I don't see why not it's no different than moving pieces on a set. Literally putting on an improv performance of Hulk vs. Superman for my peers in kindercare

>>716009602 (OP)
Video games are all those 3 combined, the only thing that keeps it less artistic than literature is that its authors will be working under a lot of corporate mandates and pressure, and typically about 150+ people on-site who have no respect or clue for what a story even is, and conversely, many game writers are so stuck in literature that the devs that already don't give a shit, don't stop them from suggesting horrible ways of implementing it.

Playing any of the latest BioWare games or some of CDPR's games, they tend to let characters run their mouths and the fact that there are 8 sub-writers, means some of them only got to write the "NPC backstory dialogue" that you come across as you explore. And some of that is so self-indulgent, so wordy, and so detached from the context of the main narrative that it feels like it's a terrible substitute for silence.

So many games have spoken dialogue happening over arcadey combat encounters that don't match what's being said, but the heat of the player's actions also makes it near-impossible to pay attention to what some characters are yapping while you're dodging attacks. Guardians of the Galaxy is the worst offender in something like this.

Just all around god-awful methodology with story in games. "Environmental Storytelling" gets another turd from me, because most of the time that just means someone wrote "The Zombies are KILLING US" on a wall in the middle of an apocalypse. Or it means some designers spent the whole project sculpting out a realistic book-store with a broken table to imply that the "wife fought her husband here" and you're supposed to pick up on it and go "oh... how sad." but it's terrible.

In a book, the little details are perfect, because they complement a SCENE. in a video game, things tend to exist in complete isolation from context. And that's on top of the main plot already having a mix of awkward acting and distracting face-animation because it's auto-generated based on phonemes.

>>716010113
Some games are also art, to me, simply by virtue of being accidentally amazing. All good games are usually amazing but only few of them are art, and they're art when they feel like the stars and moon aligned and the developers worked in a sort of "sync" that made the game have a special feeling to it.

I get that "art" to most people is when something is just literally perfect. The characters are perfectly motivated, everything anyone does in the story adds up, and the aesthetic and music is perfect while the gameplay itself is also super high quality.

But to me something imperfect can easily be art, when you're just able to step back for 2 seconds and appreciate the fact that this thing even got made. For example, Sonic Rush on Nintendo DS I'd cast a quick glimpse at and decide it's consumerist trash, but something "clicked" with me when playing it. It's fun, the Hideki Naganuma music is so catchy, but it also just has a really nice series of levels and bosses, and the way it did final story felt kind emotionally epic in a way Sonic bosses typically don't.

and it's a game I've been able to pick up in short bursts since and get addicted to getting slightly better score in levels, just to be in that vibe again.

And a few other games are like that for me. For many it would be Zelda Breath of the Wild but that's one I can't see personally. Mass Effect 2 is a "me" game, every time I play all 3 of those games there are moments in the middle of ME2 where I just go "God, DAMN this is good." because of the way it came together, even knowing how every Mass Effect nerd keep saying it's where all the wrong creative decisions happened. But to me it feels the opposite way, even though I recognize the first game is the only one that has a deeper substance to it.

It isn't just that it's a "vibe", but it's when multiple disciplines of talent come together in the right way, and the game isn't too content-repetitive in a way that makes it feel thrown together.

>>716009602 (OP)
>Video games
>art
That's like saying trans woman.

>>716014853
>bloodborne is the only non retarded one there, dark souls 2 is just eccentric but not dumb
This fits.

>>716009602 (OP)
Until they stop trying to emulate those others, absolutely not. If they embrace that they can do what the others cannot then it's not impossible.

>>716019480
i think the degree to which subjectivity is rife in your determination of if a game is art "to you" (which i believe to be somewhat nonsensical) is an indication they aren't art
there are many films people might call bad, might dislike, and might be disgusted by, but which they will still acknowledge as art
art is a purity of vision and a dedication not to an end product but to the vision above all else
commercial films are therefore Not Art and video games will Never Be Art

>>716010942
Is a toy art? Or a deck of cards? Or a puzzle? You wouldn't say so, would you? The way a toy is painted could be considered art, or how a deck of cards is adorned, a puzzle could depict a famous piece of art. But the act of playing with said things is not art. A video game could contain art, as in images or music, but its interactive nature means it cannot be art.

>>716009602 (OP)
Yes. When the old guard of cinema finally dies and the industries are filled with people who grew up playing videogames and don't hate them out of simple habit.
I am not looking forward to it.

Instead I am hoping people realise that most "artists" in media are just obnoxious blowhards and I'm glad Coppola's last movie was a giant piece of shit because we might be able to get everyone to admit things like Tarantino Has Only Made Two Movies Worth Watching, and all he does is suck hollywood's dick.

>>716020298
You didn't even come close to doing what you were supposed to
Define art

>>716010150
Also the ultimate (virtual) toy. It really is the ultimate form of entertainment.

>>716009602 (OP)
not as long as preserving them remains much more complicated than the other works

>>716020376
Instead of trying to make video games something they aren't, you should spend your time experiencing more in life. The fact that you think video games are art shows how little you have lived and how shallow your life is.

>>716020686
Define
Art

>>716009602 (OP)
No, and it shouldn't be considered so. The worst part is there's more than enough "people" in the industry that will beat that desire like a dead horse. Moviegames are a blight

>>716020741
You do know how to search for definitions, don't you?
>the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
While a video game can contain elements of the above mentioned, it is their interactive nature and primary purpose of enjoyment and commercial success which mean they cannot be considered art.

>>716011443
Dunkey already proved vidya games is art
https://youtu.be/8MQO2STCbbY

>>716009602 (OP)
>Literature
Absolutely nothing apart of erotic dark feminist slop is being produced in the past fifteen years ago. Quality apart, Brian Sanderson had to recurr to kickstarter for being published again
>Music
Music these days is basically (T)rap,"wet ass pussy" and unironic indie.
>Cinema
Studios keep trying to sell girlboss capeshit for a public not interested on it, and claiming "ism" or "phobe" when the said project failed.

And, saying that, there are literature, music and cinema inside video games, and the media itself sells more than all the rest together, so why people still consider video game being inferior?

>>716021316
>so why people still consider video game being inferior
Because a video game is in essence a toy.

People who only play vidya open themselves up to this constantly. Do you not see people claiming Kojima can hang with the rest of the best in movies and that Death Stranding 2 is a legitimately good story? Just get a grip and nobody would do it. This argument mostly had no place 20 years ago but with the rise of games where the directors think they're movie/television directors has made it necessary.

>>716009602 (OP)
No.

>>716021421
>this game is great, it has very long cutscenes where you don't do anything
I dislike those people. I have no idea how you can stop someone from having an inferiority complex.
Like with that whole art discussion. One look into a modern art gallery should cure every sane person from thinking that "art" is some exalted standard that is too high for video games to reach, but those people aren't rational, so I'm fucked with my great reality based arguments.

>>716009602 (OP)
I rather would want them to be taken seriously as an entertainment form again.

And movies look like ai upscaled power rangers episodes now, literature is the absolute biggest slop machine atm, no contest and the state of music is two people opening two cans of shitty boomer music samples, let a nepo baby mix them and throwing them on the top 40s since it's cheaper than supporting actual artists.

>>716021781
Modern art has more in common with video games than traditional art. Just like video games, modern art has an interactive component. With modern art it is the understanding and personal story telling which is the primary focus, to "get it", rather than appreciate it for its beauty. The consumer is more important than the object itself. A good comparison would be a game that is considered difficult by many, and thus considered really good by those who can complete it. Not because it is objectively good, but because they can separate themselves from those who can't complete it, much like those who "get" modern art can separate themselves from those who don't. Basically Fromslop games are the equivalent to a moldy slice of cheese that some pretentious twat can claim has some deeper meaning.

>>716009602 (OP)
>Current year
>Cinema and music
Lol

>>716009602 (OP)
They're jealous. Even if you combine all three of the book, music, and film industries income together the video game industry still dwarfs them.

>>716015318
i love you for saying this anon, will you marry me?

>>716010453
This

Movie games could be awesome, but modern devs are trash so we will never get anything that takes advantage of the medium

>>716009602 (OP)
People will take anything seriously if serious money is involved no matter what it is, and a lot of money are being invested into the gaming industry right now
Whether it is an artform or not is irrelevant

>>716009602 (OP)
All 4 are equally childish and not really art, the only true art is the art of war.

>>716009602 (OP)
>will these digital toys for children ever be taken seriously as art
...you should be able to answer the question yourself

>>716015318
>You just see a book and think "oh yeah, that's a thing for smart people
Which would be valid. The average book has more words in it than you will ever read in a video game
>muh visual novels
not video games
literally any form of media that involves reading, even manga is smarter than video games where you're just fucking around and mashing buttons. Are you really gonna compare high literature to bing bing wahoo slop?

Video games have a gameplay loop problem, even "art" games like ico have to have a tedious puzzle solving thing and pointless battles. If you get rid of the gameplay its either just a walking simulator or some interactive menu thing

>>716021634
I don't think I've ever seen anyone say the great gatsby was great outside of high school.

>>716027895
Time to go to the nursing home, grandpa.

>>716029189
That's the joke.

>>716009734
Then why hasn't that happened yet?

>>716010150
Video part of the word VIDEO Games is this. But the Games part of Video GAMES requires interaction on part of the user and it's the way they interact with the Video portion that overall changes the dynamics of things in a way all those Multimedia Genres could not.

>>716010453
Correct, main issue is it feels like you are walking through a Hollywood Set Piece than interacting with the Hollywood Set Piece. Failed Movie Games forget this fact, like a majority of them fail. While Movie Games like Kojima's Death Stranding and MGS Series understands you need Gameplay alongside the Movie aspect otherwise it's boring. David Cage from Heavy Rain, Detroit Become Human also understands the importance of Interaction through Gameplay alongside the Cinematic scenes. Because Video Games especially Movie Games are not passive mediums, which is what the others fail at understanding. It's an INTERACTIVE medium.

why do you care? Also cinema itself is a tier lower than music and literature

>>716011863
If mediums are all about impact on culture, then basically it's all the same. The importance of Culture and Artforms is not Impact, but the Quality and understanding of it's Artforms.

>>716021634
Funny how the guy used into represent the Chad (Ozymandias) is a literal homosexual

>>716018872
>Just all around god-awful methodology with story in games. "Environmental Storytelling" gets another turd from me, because most of the time that just means someone wrote "The Zombies are KILLING US" on a wall in the middle of an apocalypse.
Not only that, but it's a lot of Environmental Artists that overly inflate these things as necessary especially texture work. I would argue there is more importance of telling a story without words or the environment itself. In MGS4 when Solid Snake is old, you could feel how his movements have slowed down, or that he had to rely more on his CQC than usual due to him aging. Those details are more important than the background trying to show you what is going on.

Either way all of what you wrote is completely correct. Everyone is trying to enforce their will on Video Games than understanding what Video Games actually are in of themselves. Interactive Mediums. Not Linear Art Galleries, huge cutscenes. I think a lot of these writers, journalists, movie people need to play games from Metal Gear Solid and David Cage games to kind of understand what movie games actually are.

>>716020167
>art is a purity of vision and a dedication not to an end product but to the vision above all else
That is your definition. Not how the rest of the world sees it. Also if we went by your meaning then nothing could be considered art, and it would be a narrow view in which very few can enjoy it.

>>716031638
Cinema can be a great artform, issue is those who control it tend to not utilize it's strengths and only care about money. It tends to be an issue in many industries where there are blind people in charge who only maximize money and use hidden arts of production values, but never maximize quality of the artform itself for the audiences.

>>716009602 (OP)
Don't know don't care. How's that?

>>716010862
Something you use to launder money

>>716010942
something that you experience that leaves an emotional impact on you

>>716009602 (OP)
Thank God no

>>716016016
>My Immortal
>not high art

videogames are toys, something to play with.

Literally in the name

>>716009602 (OP)
Vidya will have the last laugh when Toby Fox fans elevate him to Shakespeare's level when they turn 40 and no one even bothers interacting with the top hats on the bottom.

>>716009602 (OP)
Eh, pop music doesn't really act like it's better than video games. But for some reason it's allowed to be more lewd than video games. Kpop hoes in kpop are fine somehow but put them in a game and everyone flips out

Video games are not art for the same reason sports are not art.
It's an interactive experience defined by unbreakable Laws defined by someone else. When you read a book, watch a movie, listen to a song, you're passively consuming someone else's perception and interpreting it in your own unique way. When you create one of these, you're likewise channeling your own perceptions into a vessel for someone else to freely interpret. But when you play a sport, or even make a brand new one, you are creating rules that MUST be followed. You're defining laws that focus in on exactly how the experience is to be experienced. You MUST dribble the ball. You MUST jump the gaps. You MUST wait your turn at bat. You MUST head to that mountain in the distance.
There are no rules in art. Only guidelines of what works best. But you're free to do whatever you want. Free to embarrass yourself with an absurd dance routine. Free to follow color theory and perspective to create a rendition of reality. Free to break conventions and paradigms, or follow them.
I would argue the act of CREATING a game can be art, but playing it? Or the piece itself? Nope.

>>716009602 (OP)
Because Zoomoids shat on tank controls. If video games were art there would still be tank controls TODAY

>>716009602 (OP)
when they stop trying to be movies yes

>>716009602 (OP)
>Will video games ever be taken seriously as an artform?
Huffing your own farts until you hallucinate toys being art is bad for your health.

>>716009602 (OP)
No. Cause it's not one.

>>716035330
what if we changed the name to "software entertainment"
VNs would make more sense being under that umbrella
Sidenote: Are VNs art?