I've been trying to chase this high for the past 20 fucking years and nothing has come close

I know that feel. If you skip all the Disney scenes it's 100% kino from start to finish.

KH4
>Replaced the villain from KH1-3 with comic relief Marvel quipping mobile gacha character who appeared in 2 cutscenes in the actual games for 6 minutes and 36 seconds
>Organization XIII is replaced with mobile gacha characters who have cardboard one dimensional personalities and appeared in 1 cutscene for 2 minutes and 55 seconds in the actual games
>In order to understand backstory you need to play mobile gacha (WHICH IS OFFLINE NOW)
>Another mobile gacha that was supposed to contain crucial backstory got cancelled
>QTEs
>Strong woman representation
>Unreal Engine 5
>Nomura is retiring and giving away the franchise to literally who
IT'S OVER

>>716060448 (OP)
Cavern of Remembrance was where everything came together.
Exploration + Platforming Challenges + Combat
What could've been if they really built more off of this

>>716060448 (OP)
Have you tried literally any good action game? There's tons.
>>716060707
Cavern of Remembrance is the only good area in the game, period, because it's the only area with an emphasis on platforming and exploration like KH1, which KH2 was sorely missing

regardless what you think of the story nothing has really come close when you think about it. Not even square enix could recreate this game's magic. The pacing is insanely good with some of the best feeling action combat in the industry.

>>716060857
I would also add the combat in KH2 flows closer to Ninja Gaiden 2. Easy to pick-up hard to master, but they only really push the systems in the endgame content.
Where as everything afterwards flowed like Samurai Jack Battle Through Time; cool posing thats slower and doesnt blend at the same pace as its predecessors

>>716060448 (OP)
Just play the third

>>716061070
>Where as everything afterwards flowed like Samurai Jack Battle Through Time
Would add that its everything after DDD. Both DS and mobile games still felt like they were built off of 2.

>>716061123
>just play [Massive Downgrade in everything]

This game was way too good for a mobile game remake. Best platforming in the series and it actually forced you to use some semblance of strategy with even the mook enemies.

>>716060532
>If you skip all the Disney scenes

Pleb. Disney is part of the soul of the franchise. KH1 and 2 are both peak ARPG in general, which is funny since they’re both children’s games, yet they both wipe the floor with the entire genre.

>>716061337
The only thing downgraded in 3 was the summons.

>>716060448 (OP)
>chasing this high
depends what you mean by a "high".
As in action game? i fucking hope you played Ninja gaiden Black/Sigma. It comes close to KH2's kino.

>>716060590
it was over when KH3 released

>>716061495
>artstyle
>combat
>weight
>difficulty
>story
>characters
>acting
(You)

>>716061337
This is BULLSHIT and you either know it, or you havent played KH3 faggit.
KH3 is an excellent game after the update that ups the difficulty and with the extra DLC contents.
The base game was lacking in difficulty and more content but they fixed that later. The ONLY thing that sucked about KH3 is the clear lack of FF characters. Everything else was kino

>>716061469
I feel 2's lack of level design in comparison to the first really hurts it, it's the give of going more to the action side of the ARPG scale.

>>716061620
>KH3 is an excellent game

>>716061657
tbf, KH2s combat design and pacing were incredibly fucking good compared to 1
(Though Id argue technicals held less weight compared to 1)

>excellent power progression that doesn't feel like a sudden power creep
>game mechanics that are surprisingly deep and rewarding to master
>transformations with their own strengths and weaknesses
>incredible end game bosses where you must prove your mastery over the combat system
we used to have it all

>>716061847
I like the weight behind KH1's combat better but 2 found a way to get more floaty which also allows them to add a lot more options without becoming any game after it. I think I also like the pacing of the Disney worlds themselves better because they get a bit more time to breathe, while the splitting worlds in 2 for the 2nd does hurt it to me. I think that kingdom hearts 1 is a lot better at meshing the disney and square together than 2. From a pure gameplay is king standpoint I would say that 2 is the winner though.

>>716061846
You can argue the ending was kinda shitty (and the attractions were a downgrade) but yes overall it's an excellent and fun game

>>716060448 (OP)
Did you play the FFVII remakes? They're basically Kingdom Hearts with an FFVII skin

>>716061847
KH2’s combat mechanics are exceptional, but as a complete package, KH1 is the better game overall.

2 has garbage level design compared to the first game, and it’s way easier than the first game too, even on Critical. Also, KH1 has a bigger emphasis on its RPG elements, which makes it feel more like a true RPG. To say nothing of the fact that the story is also leagues better overall too.


I think the most accurate assessment is that 2 has higher highs, but lower lows, while 1 is more consistently great all around.

>>716062274
Definitely agree.
KH1 had more of a mystery to it thanks to what you listed on top of how it told its story.
Whereas definitely focused on cutting things down after the intro until the return to Twilight Town.
Just wish KH 3 was a combination of the best aspects of the 2, but ReMind did some good in its own way imo

>>716062274
>>716062684
*2 definitely focused on cutting things down

>>716060448 (OP)
Have you tried paying an actual good game like Bloodborne instead of unironic tranime mouse slop?

>>716062189
What I love about both KH1 and 2, is that in both games you just start out as an ordinary kid with a toy sword doing sparring matches with their friends, and then by the end of the game you’re a Demi-god. A lot of JRPGs, and even other KH games don’t have that same sense of progression. Anyone who complains that KH1 and 2 have slow starts is an idiot, because those slow-burn starts add so much to the game.

>>716062757
2 had a lot of padding and filler though, since many of the Disney world visits didn’t contribute to the plot or themes of the game at all. 1 is a lot leaner, and each world visit is a lot more consequential.

>>716060448 (OP)
I think Kingdom hearts 2 has the best story. All the friends are separated, Roxas death, and Sora reuniting with his friends in the end. Xemnas was a good boss too since he showed how far Sora has come since KH1 and his bond with Riku.

>>716062487
2 definitely leveraged its combat with the flat linear arena-to-arena levels (Cavern of Remembrance being the obvious exception).
In terms of difficulty I also kind of agree, but with the asterisk that 1s difficulty also included dealing with some of the games jank, which isnt really as engaging as 2 imo.
2 reads player intention better, and flows a lot faster, but didnt really up the difficulty of the content to match that till endgame and post-endgame imo.
2's hardest content building off of everything you learned and never introducing real BS out of nowhere at the last minute is still a masterclass in difficulty design to this day.

>>716060448 (OP)
i have not one, not two, but THREE black friends that swear by kh2 and only kh2.

>Kingdom Hearts II
Grim.

>>716063089
Was moreso referring to the level design rather than the worlds and their content and relevance in the story.
But i agree with you there. And you see how that ended up evolving into what happened in KH3

>>716063220
Grim how?

>>716063186
Kingdom Hearts was always popular with blacks. Hell, one of the biggest weaboos I ever knew was a black guy with a girlfriend and two kids.

>>716063148
I think it gets a lot of love and attention (which is deserved) but just how Critical mode, and by extension lvl 1 runs work as well as they do. I don't know if there is another ARPG you could find where that sort of system works or would work.

>>716063186
kh2s combat system was perfect for introducing people to the appeal of a hack-n-slash arpg brawler.
And had a very low friction for beginners, especially kids looking for that instant gratification.
The action spectacle being similar in appeal to some of the popular shonen anime that came out at the time added to that.
Especially for shows like Dragon Ball Z and Naruto on Toonami.
And the story generally invokes a similar emotional appeal.
Add to that the music being fire, and the opening invoking elements of R&B and Pop of the time.
You got something that any black kid, much less any shonen weeb, would find incredibly appealing at the time.
Imagine a licensed game with KH2s combat system and emotional appeal in presentation, you kinda get the idea.

>>716063870
I don’t think people fully appreciate how influential KH as a series was:

>KH1 was one of the first 3D ARPGs and it was the first to implement air combos.
>adapted the FF combat system and aesthetic into real-time gameplay better than FFs own attempts to do the same.
>Basically helped shape the Hot Topic aesthetic of the early 2000s.
>the first game did a Metroidvania style ARPG long before Demon Souls and Dark Souls did a similar thing.


How there are no KH clones considering how ground breaking and popular the series is is beyond me.

>>716063148
I do think 1’s jank is overstated. It controls remarkably well by today’s standards (better than alot of games from 2002), and the janky camera was fixed in the releases.

>>716063819
There are a few recent ones that get close, like SOP and Rebirth.
But the main thing is that most ARPGs look to something like Diablo 2 or Dark Souls.
Where the RPG elements have a lot of weight in your outcomes.
And the action elements are slower paced.
Most anime ARPGs have something similar to anime fighting games,
where they are very flashy and invoke similarities to the shows and manga they are based off of.
But, they usually lack any sort of restrictions in your fundamentals of moving and attacking, along with polish in gamefeel for the sake of the power fantasy.
(And turning out a product in time to capitalize on the popularity of the IP as much as possible)

KH2 came as a result of KH1s game design being influenced by games like Mario 64 and Arcade BeatEmUps like SpikeOut or Capcom's AvP, with Squares penchant for straightforward, yet kinda deep, JRPG design like FF7 and X.
And having that refined and its pace quickened to help KH2 standout.
Then when it came down to how to balance the harder difficulties, the combat designers looked to the action over the rpg elements because the games action elements stood out.
And the designers knew that fundamentals like spacing, character movesets, and letting hitboxes drive the design instead of stats and ability cooldowns would be in line with their action game influences.
Combined with the devs looking to games like DMC 1 when they were developing KH 2 that reinforced those ideas as appealing, along with their need to appeal to a wider demo thanks to the Disney branding, and you can kinda see how KH2 came to be.
(And how getting anything similar is more of a rare occurrence than something common in todays soulslike, cinematic, stat-obsessed world)

Probably gonna get more indies like KH 2 soon-ish as that generation of gamers have grown up and are becoming more present in the industry and indie scene. (But a lot will probably focus on the spectacle and end up a bit shallow. missing the fundamentals)

forgot to include that>>716065426
was also a reply to >>716064452
KH did a lot different, but was also too different for a lot of people leading the industry rn.
And its recent entries have nowhere near as much influence and impact as KH1 and KH2 did.
Probably gonna see more influence in the years to come.

>>716065426
>>716064452
>>716063870
and to clarify
anime fighters and liscenced ARPGs give you a lot in terms of player power with your fundamental controls.
But the best tof the beatmeup genre made you earn that power and spectacle with good use of those fundamental controls
KH and KH 2(especially KH2FM) take more form the latter, but still has some aesthetic elements of the former imo.

>>716064915
I agree, but KH2's gamefeel is more immediately gratifying by comparison imo

>>716065426
I think Dark Souls in some ways is a successor to KH1’s more methodical and tactical approach to combat, but even then it’s lacking key features that KH1 had like customisable party members, air combos (or combos in general honestly), movement abilities aside from dodge rolling, and consistent hitboxes and stagger animations. In essence, DaS is like a more watered down and janky KH.