Serious Thread. What improvements do you want to see from Sonic Frontiers to its sequel? Shadow Generations showed a step up in quality, so where do we go from here?

>>716155879 (OP)
No more boost, sonic shouldn't have a run button.

Sonic should look like this

>>716158301
Why is he in majoras mask

>>716155879 (OP)
1. go fast
2. smash robots to save cute animals
3. go FAST
4. kick eggman's ass in boss battles
5. GO FAST
6. get all the chaos emeralds to GO BEYOND FUCKING FAST
7. GO FAST HOLY SHIT HOW CAN YOU EVEN MESS THIS UP SO GODDAMN MUCH

>>716155879 (OP)
more sage

>>716158471
He's met with a terrible fate

>>716155879 (OP)
I would like tighter controls.
At it's worst turning in Frontiers felt like trying to steer a bigrig.
Might have just been how my sliders were setup, but honestly they should have had well tuned physics from the start and not expect the player to do that job for them.

Make a new Spinball.

>>716156058
Yep. If anything, it should be the opposite. Sonic needs a fucking handbrake. Pulling back in a 3D Sonic game usually results in him doing a U-turn that can send you careening off of a platform. It's funny how in SA1, the very first 3D Sonic game, they actually DID give him a "brake" button. It was when you were in the air, and pressed B. You'd come to a complete stop, and it was very useful for platforming after going really fast.

Ideally, of course, the handling of a Sonic game shouldn't "need" such mechanics, but I don't mind their inclusion as a tool, of sorts. Same way I don't mind the drift. Same way I don't mind the homing attack. As long as they aren't used as crutches, they do add meaningful control options for the player.

>>716158781
I admire your appreciation for not overcomplicating things, but I'm gonna be that guy and say Sonic shouldn't be all about going fast all the time. There needs to be some platforming. Some sort of actual feedback. It can't all be boosting down a corridor. Level design is a major sticking point for 3D Sonic. A lot of people glaze Shadow Gens' level design, but it's really just more of the same stuff we saw in Frontiers, and even Forces to some degree. Too many straight lines, too many scripted events, too much railroading, not enough options for traversal. The gimmicks both helped and harmed in that regard. It's a complex subject, one that I don't have enough characters to really get into. The levels were fine, but they could've been better.

>>716164540
Frontiers actually has very tight controls when the sliders are fiddled with the right way, just minus actual physics. They're certainly better than the tank on ice boostshit Sonic tends to feel like. That said, you're right, and I've been saying the same thing for years too. I shouldn't HAVE to do this. I absolutely do not mind options. Options can be very good. But Sonic Team really should have just made a game where the controls felt good to begin with.

>>716155879 (OP)
The story of Frontiers was so bad, basically anything would be an improvement. Gameplay wise, have real map objectives that actually do something, not towers that do literally nothing once you climb them.

>>716155879 (OP)
I've never seen a hedgehog go so fast.

>>716155879 (OP)
I just want Frontiers but actually fleshed out and not a hodgepodge of ideas thrown together at the last minute, even if some of those ideas did sort-of work out. A big open zone where I can go fast, with plenty of enemies and obstacles to chain together, but enough room that I can run around freely. Frontiers did this well with the exception of Chaos Island. Get rid of those 2D sections in places that you can wander into and break your flow. Also. tone down the rail grinding a bit and add more traditional platforming segments. Good cyberspace stages are super important. I think the shorter levels fit better with Frontiers' gameplay compared to the longer levels in Shadow Gens. I'd like to see them actually try and balance the stat upgrades/collectables instead of just giving you tons of them at every opportunity. I don't think I ever had to fight a boss to get more gears since the game gave me so many. That's probably a good thing actually, but I still think there could've been more of a push to defeat the guardians; I just did because it was fun.

Also, fishing minigame with Big.

>>716155879 (OP)
Just bring back the Adventure gameplay style please for gods sake.

Stop using the Lost World engine. They say they lost the original boost/unleashed engine, and i dont know how game development works but cant you like...MOD sonic generations and use that as the engine?

If it uses the same format as Frontiers, make sure every hub is distinct. The 4th and 5th Island feels like they ran out of time and/or resources, and are basically retreads of the 1st island.

>>716166859
Also, it was so obvious I almost forgot, if they're gonna include Sonic's friends in the story, then make sure they can have some kind of impact. It sucked watching Tails/Amy/Knucks be completely useless and it made the story really lame. Tails says he wants to be more independent, but the whole time he's stuck in cyberspace while Sonic does everything. They fixed that in the DLC at least, so there's some hope there.

>>716155879 (OP)
>Button are like this : Jump-Crouch/Spin-Boost-Strafe L-Strafe R-Camera Control
>If there is combat, then it should be something simple and kick and not some combo monkey stuff
>In combat scenario, if Sonic boost toward an enemy, he will punch it and send him flying. The enemy takes more damage on collision with the environnement and other enemies.
>Face button only have two functions : Crouching and Jumping.
>Crouching will running will cause Sonic to spin. While spinning, Sonic use his quills to have better traction to the ground, and climb walls angled at 90°.
>If he spin toward a narrow gap, he will automatically slide at the cost of speed. If he spin "just" before the gap, then there won't be any loss in speed.
>Crouch + Boost = Spin dash
>Boost is a gradually acceleration, while Spin Dash is a fuck you charged boost.
>Croush + Strafe L/R = Spin Drift
>No Air Boost, instead you get something similar to the insta shield in concept. It allows you to charge your homing attacks, bounds or to prep a drop dash.
>Alternative characters with their own gimmicks : Boost is Sonic's, Tails has one based on his tails, Knuckles has one based on his hands etc.

>>716165358
That image is retarded. The background has no actual level design as it would be even less fun that jumping on floating platforms.

Wait, Sonic's arms aren't blue?

>>716167227
>but cant you like...MOD sonic generations and use that as the engine?
You would need the source code Sonic Generations and all the tools used to make that game. Sonic Generations is an ancient game so they would need to heavily modify its source code and its tools in order to bring it up to modern standards.
It would be much more efficient if Sonic Team would just make a new character controller from scratch as most people only have a problem with how Sonic controls and a brand new character controller would completely fix that.

>>716155879 (OP)
Less generic aesthetic design, more fleshed out cyber space levels, no 2D in the open world.

>>716168851
>no 2D in the open world.
Nah. They just need to do it more stylishly and not overuse it like they did in Chaos Island.

>>716168335
Outside of Sonic Boom, no

Sonic But survival-Crafting

Its the next logical progression. and Honestly I think it could work.

>>716171645
I was actually making that in Dreams a while back. I agree, it would be kino asf

>>716171645
That but you play as Tails and it's like that weird gamegear game where he commits warcrimes.

>>716169142
this

>>716167227
That would be way too much work. The real solution is just start from scratch with an engine with no boost slop. Spin dash is enough.

Have Sonic carry momentum off ledges. Fold the Frontiers spindash properties into the normal boost. Maybe tone down the speed just a little bit so it's not as absurdly game breaking as it turned out to be.

>>716177486
>Have Sonic carry momentum off ledges
He already does that tho

I played Sonic Adventure recently and realized how good it is compared to the rest. Even as early as Sonic Adventure 2, the stages are too linear and 'on the rails' instead of giving you complete mobility. Boosting and rails suck

Honestly don’t know what to expect from a Frontiers 2, just hope it starts with multiple playable characters from the get-go

>>716163939
And he needs to stop the Moon from crashing into the Earth in 3 Days!

>>716179813
>just hope it starts with multiple playable characters from the get-go
Why? They should focus on making Sonic fun first before even considering developing other characters.

>>716179670
SA1s levels have a surprising amount of "openness" to them, despite being pretty linear if your goal is to just get to the end.
I think it mostly has to do with the fact falling is less punishing, usually taking you back to some early area. SA2 is mostly all bottomless pits, so it can feel more like platforms floating in the air rather than real locations like twinkle park.

>>716179813
At best you will get reskins of sonic with extra abilities, like the classic games. Sega gave up on the "sonic and friends" formula back in the 2000s, at least when it comes to them having unique gameplay styles.

>>716165563
Let me guess, it was the start of Ian Flynn syndrome with multiple references for the sake of Nostalgia?

>>716179949
Anon it’s been 3 years since Frontiers released, 2 years if you count Final Horizon, they can take all the time they need with these games

>>716179961
I think SA1 stages are more open because they have to accommodate different playstyles at the same time. SA2 stages on the other hand only had worry about one playstyle. That's why Sonic doesn't go through Pumpkin Hill or why Tails doesn't go through Radical Highway.

More Tails

>>716180221
Making open world games is really difficult though. There's a reason why Frontiers took 5 years to make despite feeling so janky and unfinished.

Unleashed 2

>>716180340
Thats another reason yeah

>>716155879 (OP)
Frontiers 2 should have shadow and sonic as playable characters, with rouge and tails as their respective sidekicks.

>>716168514
this

Change Shadow's boost animation because it looks weird

>>716155879 (OP)
>Remove combat
>Remove pointless stats
>Design a dense hub with shit to do that actually looks like it belongs in a Sonic game
>Drop the "puzzles" and accept that the hub is just that. a hub. It is NOT where the player should be kept most of the time
>Make Sonic fun to control out of the box, do not make this the player's responsibility
>Keep cyberpsace levels, just make them actually good and use unique zone themes. Look to Shadow Gens for inspiration on this front

>>716182927
Remove boost all together.

>>716180221
Sonic Team has proven that more time does not mean better game. Forces and Frontiers both had all the time in the world to be made and they were still shit

>>716183501
So basically just SA1.

>>716155879 (OP)
The bare minimum I expect is that the Cyberspace stages are as good as the Shadow Gens levels.
Because Frontiers' Cyberspace stages sucked.

>>716183501
You just want another Shadow Gens

>>716184212
Yes, but without the doom powers

>>716183781
>Forces and Frontiers both had all the time in the world to be made and they were still shit
Not exactly. Most of Forces' development was spend on making Hedgehog Engine 2. Frontiers only had 2 years of development because Sonic Team spend 3 years making Sonic Rangers which was cancelled.

>>716180041
What about the Frontiers DLC where you play as Tails, Knuckles and Amy?

>>716184372
>Frontiers only had 2 years of development because Sonic Team spend 3 years making Sonic Rangers which was cancelled.
That's part of development time. The fact that they wasted three years is just proof of their incompetence

At this point just kill Amy. Don't even try to save her, it's pointless.
The open world sucked shit, there was nothing to do in it, the puzzles and platforming sections were linear as fuck and dull to do. Just rip off Shadow Gens or SA1 if they need to keep it.
If they "need" to keep the combat just have Knuckles/Werehog/some shit as a specific alternate character that only combats.
Have an actual fucking story that's shonen as shit instead of vague nothings.

>>716184473
>That's part of development time
I guess but Kishimoto wasn't directing Sonic Rangers. Sega's CEO asked Iizuka to save Sonic Rangers and he did that by restarting the project and by putting Kishimoto as the new game director.

>>716155879 (OP)
More Super Sonic (and other transformations of course)
Both Frontiers and Shadow nailed the Super gameplay formula, Frontiers for bosses and Shadow for normal stages with those wings

>>716184380
They're reskins with modified skill trees in that game.

>>716155879 (OP)
Donkey Kong Bananza is designed identically to Frontiers, so its the sequel.

>>716184925
>Donkey Kong Bananza is designed identically to Frontiers
How so?

>>716185039
Open areas loosely connected by 'attractions' that connect together like a skatepark making this gameplay where you turn your brain off and go from attraction to attraction collecting things. Then you use your collected things in your skill tree or up your stats, so you keep collecting the things. Or you just go to a shopkeeper and max everything out with the abundant collectibles. There are also the self-contained linear stages accessible through portals, and all of it is kind of irrelevant because you can just go to where the map guides you and leave the level in thirty minutes if you don't care

>>716185436
You can see that now. Frontiers' "attractions" were all really linear and had weird entry points. Only the puzzle attractions actually felt like they were built with the open zone in mind. Are the Bananza attractions also as linear? I don't have a Switch 2.

Get rid of the combat system first and foremost. The titan fights were cool, but there was no reason for the gotta go fast game to also have DMC moves and leveling. Save that for another Shadow spinoff or something.

More butts

>>716184925
sóykey slopnanza has no speed.

>>716158781
2000s ass post

I want a massive JRPG autismfest story, go above and beyond with the stakes.

>>716155879 (OP)
better movement physics

>>716155879 (OP)
Give me a speedy pinball to maneuver through a surreal skatepark-esque environment with a heavy focus on nuanced movement derived from terrain and momentum. That's it.
ZERO boost pads, red/rainbow booster rings, chains of springs, auto-balance rails, etc.
No retarded control-locking level gimmicks that are all spectacle and no substance. No boring 2D sequences. No shallow as fuck combat. No dumbass slow mechanics like the stupid fucking freefalling segments the level designers love forcing into every other goddamn level nowadays.
Holy shit I hate what this franchise has become. I blame Chemical Plant.

>>716189210
>surreal skatepark-esque environment with a heavy focus on nuanced movement derived from terrain and momentum
How would that look like?

>>716189210
But your webm has SA2 boost pads

>>716155879 (OP)
I'm a simple man: do Frontiers again, get rid of the retarded floating rails, polish up the physics, and do minimal to no stage remakes. I also wouldn't be entirely opposed to it just being the open world as those were fun to run around in with Sonic's speed and move set.

>>716180974
That’s just Colors anon

>>716184730
>At this point just kill Amy.

My dick says no

>>716184925
Bananza takes nothing from Frontiers

>>716191287
Like Sonic 1
>>716191869
Yeah it's an example of boring, linear, boundary-laden bullshit that most modern Sonic levels are chock full of

>>716155879 (OP)
No more Cyberspace shit.

>>716155879 (OP)
no story, no dialogue, no writers, no voice acting. It's no coincidence that the games that focus on these elements are the ones that receive the worst reviews. while the actual gameplay is braindead gacha tier with dashpads, forced automation, and a boost button with no real platforming. no one but comic readers care about story in sonic anymore, and they want a cartoon, not a video game. cut that shit OUT.

>>716155879 (OP)
speed platforming + stylish action is what sonic needs to be

>>716195963
I think Shadow Gens had just the right amount of story and voice acting.

Literally all Sonic Team has to do is use the lessons they learned from Frontiers and Shadow Gens.

They should put Sonic's boyfriend in the next game

>>716167227
Good news, they're moving to UE slop

https://youtu.be/oDn2KhZ_qNc

Threadly reminder that someone actually thought this was a good idea.

>>716196389
The combat is the worst part of Spark 2 and 3

Bring back the parkour but refine it for the open zone style. Kino game right there

>>716195963
At least you can skip the cutscenes

>>716196997
spark 2? sure
spark 3? fuck no