Thread 716206032

Is freedom of choice in RPG games an unrealistic expectation?

>and I'm tired of pretending it's mandatory
why does game jurnos pretend so fucking much?

>>716206176
holy esl

>proud cuck gamer
these faggots deserve the slop they're handed

>GAME DOESN'T HAVE TO BE GOOD, AND I'M TIRED OF PRETENDING OTHERWISE
Another game blogger masterpiece, I'm sure.
>>716206176
Running defense for bad games so their parent companies give them ad bucks and/or favoritism required to receive early access copies.

>>716206032 (OP)
>Is freedom of choice in RPG games an unrealistic expectation?
If you mean by that a sandbox experience like gta or red dead redemption then no, it's possible to make that and is not necessarily costly.
if instead you mean multiple endings and paths to a game then it's also possible but very costly, like with detroit becoming human.
in either case i find such design boring and unfun, the dev basically leaves you to make your own fun and do whatever you want, I prefer more focused games where the experience is catered, there can be choices but they have to serve a purpose within the game's story or for it's gameplay

>>716206032 (OP)
Is there any actual choice in Avowed?

Let me guess "we don't need gamey game mechanics, we need more social interaction, sex sex romance sex romance"

>>716206654
Yeah there are minor choices in sidequests that do nothing but there's also a major choice at the end of every chapter that changes the ending and the world in a major way. Main quest definitely has more choices in it than any TES main quest

>>716206032 (OP)
It's not an unrealistic expectation if they were able to do it 23+ years ago and now with even more technology more money in the industry and more hands on deck they put shit out like avowed where the NPCs can't even be attacked and have 0 reaction to getting shot or anything.

>>716206032 (OP)
Game Journalist posts something. It's all lies.

>>716206032 (OP)
>Im tired of RPG games being RPG games
I wish these people would put some iron in their mouth and pull the trigger.

>>716206032 (OP)
It was meant to simulate the freedom of choice in america

>>716206663
Don't forget, *GAY sex. It has to be GAY sex before they give it glowing reviews.

>>716207169
I wish they got hired to work on television shows that nobody watches instead of ruining videogames for everyone else.

>>716206032 (OP)
If xir didn't care they wouldn't be trying to redefine and dumb down RPGs and just play the game(s) they enjoy. But it does bother them that there are indeed RPGs out there who haven't been simplified to please the lowest common denominator, like game "journalists".

>>716206792
I'd have played this game if it had any cute girls in it. I like everything else about it but the party sucks.

>>716207494
CYOA is preferable to the immersive sim fags "i can kill everyone and make my file unwinnable" dream game.

>>716206032 (OP)
Freedom of choice in rpg means sandbox shit. I don't give a fuck about that. I want branching plot lines.

>>716206032 (OP)
It stems from Bethesda as they were initially inspired gameplay-wise by immersive sims where objects are inherently reactive to the world they occupy. Now technically it doesn't actually do anything in Bethesda's games as you don't really do anything with the reactive objects around you except maybe drag them around and push them into a pile. It's not exactly woven into any gameplay mechanic. Making the "perfect" imsim is the holy grail of western game design philosophy.

>>716206032 (OP)
Then it's not an RPG, it's just an adventure game.

>>716206032 (OP)
Having freedom of choice and options is a good thing in games, and most games are made better by having them. It’s really only having INFINITE choices that’s unrealistic— The closest you’re going to get to that are Bethesda games, and even they have their limits.

Basically, freedom of choice with reason is what games should aspire to.

It's nice having options but it's unfortunate how rarely game designers actually give any reason to actually engage with the mechanics.

Like, in most bethesda games you "can" just kill anybody but there isn't really any particular reason to do so. Pickpocketing mechanics are usually only useful for getting a key or giving an enemy a bomb which isn't really that interesting after the first time.
Removing stuff like Avowed is the wrong way to go, but game devs should work harder to make it worthwhile. Baldur's Gate 3 seemed like the right direction, inventory manipulation and strategically murdering non-hostiles felt a lot more worthwhile in that game.

>>716206032 (OP)
While not an RPG Slay The Princess is a perfect example of how meaningful choices can be and it's amazing, better than modern top of the line AI adventures even
Alpha Protocol also makes it work really well and it's a RPG

Linearity is inherently bad in RPGs (and adventure games) and it's time to stop pretending it it's not.

>>716207494
The perfect RPG for games journalists.

>>716207465
That Gabe interview was enlightening. Simple concept, but expertly explained.

>>716207834
It's because linearity is conflated with a higher quality, it's technically anti-ludo since you are removing an element of gameplay over a shiny spectacle akin to a cinematic experience.

>>716207760
>Alpha Protocol also makes it work really well and it's a RPG

It’s just a shame this came at the cost of everything else in the game.

It really feels like in games that you often have to choose between freedom of choice and polish. The closest middle ground is immersive sims and stealth games like Hitman where you have tons of gameplay options, but even there, the story is on rails and your freedom of choice is just limited to moment-to-moment gameplay.

>>716207834
If you take away linearity, you pay for it somewhere else. Look at Oblivion/Skyrim. You can go anywhere, but all incentive for getting stronger evaporates, because the monsters are growing along with you.

>>716207974
>Oblivion/Skyrim.
Those are bad games and barely RPGs. They would bad regardless. Them being non-linear is one of its redeeming qualities anyway.

>>716207974
You still grow stronger in Oblivion and Skyrim anyway, since if you’re not completely retarded, your stat allocation and equipment set-ups will allow you to outpace the level scaling anyway.

There’s also a middle ground between “linear cinematic experience with no choice or replay value whatsoever” and “completely aimless experience”.

Just find a local LLM model according to your VRAM and you can have as many choices as you would like, at least for a few pages
It's actually pretty cool if you have the right expectations

>>716208208
>at least for a few pages
See, that's the problem.

>>716207974
Well yeah but the freedom in Bethesda games is pretty much an illusion anyway. When's the last time a Bethesda game actually let you break shit? Get loot way before you're supposed to and break the difficulty? Kill anyone you want? That was Morrowind and that game is decades old now.

People love the freedom in Bethesda games but there's not much to it. You can go anywhere and do anything because there's no friction. Leveled enemies make it so you'll never get stuck on an encounter that's too hard and all the other rough edges are sanded off too. Freedom means diddly dick when there's no consequences to choosing anything, it's make believe. I'm in this town in a country undergoing a civil war and I dressed up as the other side, what happens? Literally nothing. There's a serial murderer ravaging the town but I found evidence spelling out who it is, can I turn it in and end the quest early? No. There's this jackass who keeps annoying me, can I kill him? Why would you do that? I'm the leader of a faction and I'm going to join the faction of their sworn enemies, will anyone even respond to that? Of course not. That's not role playing, that's make believe.

>>716207494
i am willing to bat for CYOAs, as in modern renditions of choice-based text adventure games, because reading is fun
the issue is that the whole "interactive fiction" scene is ultra gay, and is largely populated by graphomaniac failed novelists, instead of people with any interest in branching narrative and capabilities to use the opportunity that the written word provides
there is like one game every two years that actually puts in some fucking effort, rather than just wallowing in twine/choicescript kiddie pools
/tg/ kind of CYOAs can also be pretty fun

>>716206032 (OP)
This is a very Asian outlook on RPGs, actually. Reminder that when Nips started playing BG3, usually their first real foray into proper RPGs, they would complain online and in reviews that the world is too open, there are too many choices and too many ways to miss content. They want their linear VN slop with grinding.

>>716206032 (OP)
I'd rather a game where I can make realistic choices within the confines of an authentic world with its ensuing power structure than a game with no story, no choices where freedome constitutes the ability to enter all 5 huts of a megacity and steal stuff from people while they pretend everything's fine just because I wasn't in their cone of vision when i was doing it. There's nothing immersive about that shit

>>716208563
>they would complain online and in reviews that the world is too open, there are too many choices and too many ways to miss content. They want their linear VN slop with grinding.
never beating the bug allegations

>>716206032 (OP)
I understand where he is coming from. Freedom of choice is a good thing if the choice leads you somewhere. Being able to kill everybody means jack shit if it doesn't affect a story in any way.
And doing some reddit shit like stealing someone's pants for some silly marvel tier humorous scene is just dumb.

>>716208563
>the asian recoils at the thought of exploration, preferring isolation until they're forced to westernize due to lack of innate ambition
wait a minute
i've seen this before

>>716206227
the modern web mindbroke kids i swear
every typo or flub is esl now

>>716206032 (OP)
I don't care either. The game has bigger problems than that. bethesda fans don't care about such feature in their games either.
Give me an RPG with good gameplay and cool dialogue options. It can be woke as long as I can say YWNBAW to trannies in game

>>716206032 (OP)
I get that not every RPG needs to be fallout new vegas or skyrim, but obsidian is known for making RPGs like this and most of their fans expected an RPG like that
so why did they suddenly get rid of it? to create a movie game or what?

>>716208424
Bethesda games do allow you to end quests early and have quest branches though. Fallout 3 in particular had a lot of these instances. As for other things, I think there’s time/resource constraints at play. These games take 5+ years to make, so there has to be a limit somewhere.

You could also argue that roleplaying is inherently make believe. The clue is in the name. Besides, plenty people do RP in Bethesda games— There’s an entire online subculture built around it.

I just wanna kill other players in my RPGs

>>716209056
Bethesda/Obsidian style RPGs are extremely hard and time consuming to make. There’s a reason Bethesda has next to no competition.

>>716206176
>>716206227
Blame the damn swipe keyboard. It can't recognize a word worth a damn, but it's infinitely better than typing letter-by-letter.

>>716207637
>Now technically it doesn't actually do anything in Bethesda's games as you don't really do anything with the reactive objects around you except maybe drag them around and push them into a pile.
Skyrim.

>>716206032 (OP)
One has to wonder why games that would barely take up the same space as an entire texture model for a single character had more actual freedom than modern games do. Then I notice that most of the people making games today only went to school to make games, and didn't really do much before that. This is ALL they do...and they don't even do it very well.

>>716208779
>if the choice leads you somewhere
>for some silly marvel tier humorous scene
This is actually a worthwhile "somewhere" that a game could lead the player into. That's what half of all the "choice and consequence" shit boils down to: the integration of mechanical and narrative elements. Something that has to be designed and accounted for explicitly, and not used as a generic {if (no_pants && cold_weather) {add_status(cold);}} system.
It's not funny to pickpocket somebody naked, because the NPC will continue to stand as if nothing happenned. But if there is a variant little scene where the naked guard fumbles to find the key to the cell, oblivious to the fact that there is literally no place he could have misplaced it. There doesn't need to and honestly can't be chaotic plot branching for every little thing, but tangibly acknowledging player action is what makes the player feel rewarded.

>>716209261
>no brain phoneposter
>no manual dexterity to navigate his fat fingers around a virtual keyboard
>no willingness to doublecheck shit you are actually posting
least surprising combo

>>716209354
True. Over-specialization and its consequences have been a disaster for society.

>>716206032 (OP)
Its a person to person taste thing.
I never go on a killing spree in ES games, so if avowed did have it, I wouldnt have ever known.
For my playstyle it adds nothing to the experience and I think that goes for most people who play this shit.
We dont use shit but complain when its not there

>>716206654
yea every quest has 2 or 3 choices you can make in it. In the end there's probably a few dozen different permutations on the ending.

>>716207905
I blame moviegames for this.

>>716208549
>CYOA
I'm sort of brainstorming one right now for /qst/

>>716206032 (OP)
Should've pretended not being retarded instead

NEXT

>>716209759
I think you could make a really good VN if you just based it off those old CYOA novels. The Goosebumps ones I remember the most with how hard it was to not get a bad ending. Gotta admit, a lot of kids died due to my poor choices, but at least the writer wasn't afraid to kill kids in his books.

>>716209842
You can't even speak English.

>>716209759
Love the art. Do you have socials?

the avowed hate did seem kind of odd. People liked the the witcher/mass effect/kotor, etc didnt care that you couldnt kill anyone/steal anything you wanted, why was it a big deal that avowed didnt have that?

>>716206032 (OP)
>I don't want an rpg to be an rpg

then don't play it?

>>716209236
i just wanna kill myself in my RPGs

>>716209931
Because ME1 still gave you a lot of options in how to approach a lot of the content in the game, but was still not quite where the series would be in ME2 and beyond. It still had text box pop ups to explain the endings to certain side quests, you could actually have neutral responses to some instances. Mass Effect may have kept removing more of its rpg origins, but at least compared to now it still TRIED to have them.

>>716209759
looks ugly. if you want i can draw for you

A GameSpot reviewer once gave a Ratchet and Clank game a lower score because it had too much gameplay variety. These people are idiots. People who create demand for their profession are even bigger idiots.

>>716209846
I'm basing the CYOA off of just a simple survival game in a zombie apocalypse but everyone is stranded in a hotel.
>>716209917
I'm a drawfag here and in /co/. I don't really draw on any other place.
>>716210040
Well, I tried.

>>716209101
>>Bethesda games do allow you to end quests early and have quest branches though
Not often, though. It feels like Skyrim and FO4 barely had any branches.

>Fallout 3
Is the only real exception, I'll grant you that. That game really doesn't get the tone of Fallout right at all but they did try to bring over shit like branching quests and character building. They didn't do it very well but hey, they tried. FO4 didn't even pretend to be an RPG.

>You could also argue that roleplaying is inherently make believe. The clue is in the name. Besides, plenty people do RP in Bethesda games— There’s an entire online subculture built around it.
You can read, right? Cause I addressed this in my post, roleplaying involves something actually responding to your actions. Bethesda games don't respond to most actions you could take.

I can pretend to be a law abiding citizen in GTA who obeys the traffic laws and doesn't use weapons, that doesn't make it roleplaying.

>>716206032 (OP)
>make a first person RPG that causes comparisons to games like TES which are open ended and have physicality to the world space
>it's actually a first person isometric RPG with a highly static world space and no physicality

>>716209759
quests are a more improvised thing, aren't they? and forum is not really a format for a proper story
/vrpg/ has a general for the sort of CYOAs i mentioned, but it is garbage not JUST because it's a general, but because they only talk about choiceofgames, so you can just look into sorcery/roadwarden/suzerain/sunless sea/sir brante if you are curious about vidya side of things

>>716210087
while I don't think that's too much of an issue in R&C I can see that being a legitimate complaint. Like looking at 2 if you just want to play a platformer with guns but now you need to do a racing minigame and a space ship minigame and the hacking minigames and the clank sections it could get annoying. Sometimes a more focused experience is better than throwing in a whole bunch of fluff.

>>716210131
Keep it up, anon. You have something unique, don't fall for the moe anime shitty meme.

>>716210327
Thanks. I was also the one behind pic but anons found it too edgy

>>716210140
Fallout 3 was probably the last Bethesda game to be more "rpg" then "fps". Oblivion had a decent number of side solutions to quests and other content, even accidentally, but by the time we get to FO4 it feels like it's being made with a totally different mindset. Where rpg just means leveling, builds, skills...but not branching paths or alternate choices much at all. The whole "yes, sarcastic yes, and ask question" thing really tells you how little the rpg part of the game was given any thought.

>>716206176
Video games journalists are often from that subset of people that need to make every fucking thing in their life a fight against oppression. They can't just state an opinion, they need to say that they're bravely voicing it against the will of a sinister all pervasive power.

>>716210407
You made this?

>>716206032 (OP)
I'm tired of AI generated articles and copypasted post on anonymous imageboards

>>716210428
Yeah, that's what I thought too. TES has never been that interested in what your character is but more in what your character does, so it's always been this weird kind-of sort-of RPG. For as much people memed about FO3 being "Oblivion with guns" it really wasn't. FO4 *was* pretty much just Skyrim with guns though, it dropped and changed so much from 3 that they don't even feel like they belong in the same franchise. There definitely was a shift in priorities at Bethesda since Skyrim.

>>716210303
It's true they are more improvised but there is a general prep you kind of have to take into account before just jumping into a quest. So in a way quests are sort of CYOAs but its completely arbitrary. I actually started out in /co/'s RWBY general drawing for OCs and ended up making several quests/CYOAs

>>716210505
Yeh.

>>716210407
Who cares about faggots opinions here. Now Chris is good at drawing, supposedly, cos he traces AI, fuck off.
The marble man it's my favorite.

>>716210650
>Who cares about faggots opinions here.
I do lmao.

>>716207892
what interview was that?
I'd like to watch it

>>716210428
>ut by the time we get to FO4 it feels like it's being made with a totally different mindset. Where rpg just means leveling, builds, skills
That is why quite literally what early RPGs were. So FO4 is actually the most RPG-like game Bethesda has made.

>>716210741
Not him but it's from Valve's Half-Life 25th Anniversary documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbZ3HzvFEto
That specific spiel where Gaben talks about "fun" is around the 15:40 mark about his theory on world reactivity.

>>716210902
I kinda want to see an imsim made by Valve now.

>>716208563
Asians literally hate freedom.
Why do you think over a billion of them turned to communism?

>>716210902
nice, thanks!
gonna watch this now

>>716210717
post your socials

>>716211023
I say again, I don't have any.

>>716206032 (OP)
RPGs aim to port the experience of playing pen and paper role playing games
the core aspect of that activity is having free will and sharing an imagined experience
the game imagines for you, its just missing the free will

>>716210928
Half-Life is the closest thing they made.

>>716208969
imagine thinking english is a serious enough language to warrant speaking it well

>>716207572
to you, maybe.

>>716210621
Cool. More creative than 99% of vidya writers.

>>716210131
Need Umumacha snu-snu...

>>716209514
Sorry, bruv. I haven't got the time.

>>716209260
>Bethesda
>RPG
what?

>>716211059
Ben 10 looking ass

>>716206032 (OP)
I wouldn't say I really care about these features on paper, but there's just something about a working physics engine and NPC's that are properly equipped with the clothes and items they're using that something is noticable when these features are absent.

>>716211759
You're just a retarded hater who has no serious opinions. Even if you don't like it, yes TES is an RPG

>>716206032 (OP)
What's the point of playing a game if you don't have choices? Wouldn't that just be one long hallway?

>>716209056
>obsidian is known for making RPGs like this
Are they? Most of Obsidian's claim to fame is making games using another developer's assets. And I hated what little I played of PoE, so I can't say how much freedom that game has.

>>716211859
an what exactly RPG in Todd's TES?

>>716211996
mods

>>716211996
want to try that in english

>>716206032 (OP)
reactivity is always fun no matter how it's implemented. i'm pretty sure gabe newell talked about this somewhere.

>>716211817
That was the point.

>>716206654
Yeah you can choose to not play that piece of shit.

>>716206032 (OP)
Well it isn't mandatory (I think, didn't play it) so sybau.

>>716212024
so there's nothing rpg about his games
go back sharty troon

>>716212132
Nigger you can barely speak english

>>716212162
and you don't play games, so what?

>>716211059
Where are the lolis?

>>716206032 (OP)
No. It's probably just some journo attempting to complain in some round-about way that Avowed didn't sell gangbusters.

>>716211996
A separate pajeet from the fallout 3 autist, huh?

>>716212278
I didn't create the characters, I just drew them. The loli is supposed to be Comet.

>>716212323
It's just damage control because of all the Avowed vs Skyrim/Oblivion videos that were coming out, in which Avowed was getting mogged by decade old games.

>>716212391
Oops, wrong pic.

>>716210407
The Dryad sounds like a normal western marriage unless you beg her parents and priest for a divorce, so....

>>716211859
It certainly is, but it's a very shallow one since there's barely any opportunity for real RP and choices which impact the world in some strong way. The RPG part is nearly exclusively based around deciding how exactly you bash & blast things in combat and even then the build crafting isn't particularly in-depth.

>>716206654
Wasting money/Computer space on it is certainly a choice

>>716212472
lmao

>>716207834
BG3 is a game which is both linear and open world, it and numerous other games like the Xenoblade games already showed there are ways to make a non linear game that has rails to guide the players at the same time.

>>716211859
It's just a shitty action adventure game.

>>716212421
Avowed is getting mogged by this game made by a bunch of amateurs who don't know what they are doing.

>>716212670
>Avowed is getting mogged by this game made by a bunch of amateurs who don't know what they are doing.
Then you reach Act 3.

>>716209260
>There’s a reason Bethesda has next to no competition

bethesda coasted on Gamebryo derivative engines since Morrowind, the industry caught up to them around skyrim, now we get open world games like witcher 3, rdr2, cp77 or even semi open worlds like bg3 which have decent story and much better quests. As a result, the usual Bethesda slop is really underperforming and even NPCs who fell for the Skyrim memes are waking up and criticizing their modern releases.

>>716212515
>>716212667
Zoomzoom!

>>716209260
BotW is Skyrim but good.

>>716212793
>slorpin sloppa is what adults do!
kek

>>716212736
Except none of those games fill the niche Bethesda has created. Fuck, other Open World games don't even try to do half of what Bethesda does.

>>716212734
Avowed can only dream of being as good as Tainted Grail pre act 3.

>>716212736
Is that why the shitty Oblivion Remaster instantly sold like 4mil copies? You are so fucking retarded, especially if you think Starfield got shat on for being like Skyrim/FO3/Oblivion.

>>716212096
kek
based

>>716212793
Sorry, Bethesda since Oblivion at the very least has been making nothing but shallow slop, spread wide and thin.

>>716212843
Stop talking like a retard and use human words.

>>716212793
It's literally not an RPG. Player skill matters more than actual character skill.

>>716212872
Oblivion remaster sold less than Expedition 33, I will be surprised if it broke 4m.

>>716212913
So you don't know what you're talking about? Have you ever even played Morrowind?

>>716206032 (OP)
there's hardly ever been a good reason to be evil in a game other than an immediate reward. often times choosing to be good gets you way more loot and viable options int he long run.

>>716212843
No, adults played RPGs before you Bioware babies came in and started claiming that RPGs were about narrative and choice and consequences.
>>716212910
Still RPGs.
>>716212913
>Player skill
>Bethesda game
At least pretend you've actually played the damn games.

>>716213002
>Still RPGs.
Yes, but very shallow, like I said. I'm glad you agree.

>>716213002
>started claiming that RPGs were about narrative and choice and consequences
>that was real in my head!1
even if we assume that RPGs are about muh numbers TES is still not an RPG, at least after Morrowind

>>716206032 (OP)
>RPG

>>716212930
No it didn't, stop talking out of your ass.

>>716206032 (OP)
He's right, though. Just look at Avowed threads and those retarded webms that show how you cannot smack plates and forks around like in Oblivion as if it was some sort of gotcha.

>>716206032 (OP)
Hold up, you can steal the mayor's pants?

>>716213127
>must have crafting
Eh. Beyond that, sure.

>>716213127
stop screencapping your own posts, anon.

>>716213087
>that was real in my head!1
>but it's a very shallow one since there's barely any opportunity for real RP and choices which impact the world in some strong way.
Please, kill yourself.

>>716213127
>anon shitposts on 3 AM

>>716212515
It's not trying to give you choices and branching narrative paths. Its a Dungeon crawler integrated into a simulated fantasy world. Just doing that alone is a feat going off the fact nobody else can do what they can. Fallout NV having both is what makes it the best of both worlds.

>>716206032 (OP)
Neither do I because bethesda "rpgs" are anything but an rpg but avowed still sucked total ass.

>>716213313
>i don't have any idea what RPG is, what those three letters even mean and also i don't play games, i only suck my translesbian gf's cock
yeah go back

>>716206032 (OP)
In a game trying to be like TES? Yes, absolutely.
The freedom to do whatever and be whoever is the whole reason those games are popular.

>>716206032 (OP)
You could do most of that in Outer Worlds and that was made by Obsidian as well.
When Avowed is so limited one has to assume the devs have become incompetent or more likely that the old devs have moved on and the new hires are incompetent.

>>716207959
>It’s just a shame this came at the cost of everything else in the game.
I'd say the need to launch on consoles and the consolization did most of the damage to alpha protocol.

>>716209931
I hated all those games because they didn't allow me to do that.

>>716212946
A game where character skill matters unlike personal player skill?

>>716206654
kind of, while it leads to the same place there are big choices you can make that impact a lot of things
but thats flooded in a milion filler quests that dont matter, played it like 2 months ago and i struggle to remember any of them outside of the big ones

it could have been good, but the game is just too shallow, shallow combat, shallow skill and inventory system, shallow quest design, shallow companions that are only there to drama dump on you, and almost no enemy variety
its pretty, but thats about it

>>716206227
>>716211241
Honestly English is a pretty simple language so native speakers can't tell apart typos and actual esls. In other languages if you speak them badly you'd make much more serious and obvious mistakes than mixing up "do" and "does". And that would be way more noticeable

>>716212448
post your socials so i can contact you

>>716212096
>you can choose to not play that piece of shit
Damn, this was the choice I made
Led to the best ending too btw

>>716213832
Nigger he already told you he doesn't have any

>>716212734
>Then you reach Act 3
Funny thing is that Act 1 alone mogs the whole abobed

>>716206032 (OP)
That's actually why I didn't buy avowed or whatever, I don't wanna play a movie

>>716213791
What a shame. I stopped following Obsidian after TOW was so bleh, didn't think it could get worse.

>>716213832
Damn anon, you really can't wrap it around your head that I don't have any social media presence

>>716213975
then add me awaaawaa on discord/twitter instead

>>716213943
Yeah well it did.
Maybe if they had that autist Sawyer or Cain help out with Avowed, the game wouldn't have been so painfully mid.

>>716214090
Anon, thanks for the offer but I'm good.

>>716213134
Your 4 million number is talking out of your ass too, it was announced the game had reached over 4 million players. Which means it would have sold 4 million if like 0 people played it on gamepass. Then this is a game which got forgotten shortly after launched so it's not like it has great legs, unlike Expedition 33.

>>716213532
>bioware baby claiming that RPGs older than himself suddenly aren't RPGs anymore
You are one looney troony.

>>716214226
drop your socials so we can connect

>>716214275
obsessive

>>716206032 (OP)
Only if expecting to be able to sleep with everybody

>>716206032 (OP)
I hate journos so much it’s unreal

>>716212096
To pirate or not play, that is the question.

>>716214231
>Inferior remake of a nearly 20yr old game doesn't have much legs
Yes. However, we have no idea how great E33's legs are since it hit 3mil at apex of it's popularity.

>>716206032 (OP)
That's not the main issue the game had.

>>716214231
>Microsofts entire strategy is getting people to play games on gamepass
>They release a game and people play it on gamepass
>This is wrong and shows that the game flopped, actually
Explain yourself.

>>716214489
if more people aren't buying gamepass (and they aren't, the numbers have been stagnant for a while) then yes it's a flop

>>716208969
If you're a "native" speaker, but you make mistakes while typing, you're esl as well, with your first language being grunting and drooling. Proofreading is not a tall order.

>>716214610
suckle me whole cockle you dumdb asshoel

>>716206032 (OP)
Without some kind of super-intelligence, yes.
software is not designed to have 'freedom of choice' and cannot be. The best you can do is make something open-world with standard shit.
AI may make it possible in the future, but they won't even be games at that point - they will be scenarios, a starting point with a vague outline of a story that doesn't even need to be followed.

You can give people the semblance of it, but everything is created to be an option. You're only as free as what the developers have programmed for you, which I would certainly argue is not freedom. If your journey is pre-defined, then it by definition is not freedom.

But with all that being said, RPG's probably shouldn't have freedom of choice, they're a story of someones life. That doesn't mean a branching story can't be done though.

TLDR: Freedom of choice is an illusion for retards just like IRL.

>>716214708
content in your retardation

>>716213943
its well made, but it feels like a designed by committee type of deal
say what you will about recent bioware trainwrecks like new dragon age game, at lest they knew they want to make it gay propaganda, here Avowed has 0 personality outside of trying to do streamlined simplified version of skyrim with any of the little depth and complexity it had removed
like you ever saw that nightclub in starfield? the refusal of showing pretty women, making everything into a joke, thats avowed, trying to do everything so safe that it lost any personality

you companions never shut up but they are just so fucking shallow, like you have "dwarf the dwarf", "gay muscular guy the gay muscular guy", the "sexpest midget granny" and "black woman", like fuck me, couldnt they come up with anything interesting?

drawanon give me your socials

There were two kinds of RPGs
1) the RPG is on-rails: you're playing the developers' campaign. The BioWare type of RPG. It's a story-game and you're along for the ride (jRPGs are also all like this)
2) the RPG has no rails: you're murdering every NPC you come across to steal their pants. The game has a story? I didn't know. Emil is a fucking godawful writer so nobody plays the main campaign lmao i'm going to climb that mountain! The Bethesda type of RPG.
now Bethesda fell off of letting you 'do anything' and instead began focusing more and more on Emil's sloppy writing which is why Bethesda is so washed-up these days.

>>716206654
Actually quite a bit. It's weird how /v/ just makes assumptions about games without ever playing them. It isn't a great RPG in my opinion and I much prefer isometric games, but there's a good amount of choices and consequences in Avowed.

>>716215868
Nobody played it because the art direction is genuinely repulsive.

>>716206032 (OP)
I just finished avowed, itd not a rpg, its an actiongame with light rpg elements. A shame that the game is such normieslop, combat is kinds fun but everything is so shallow. And hey I like talking with teammates here and there, but in that game youre straight up the teams therapist and its weird and annoying

>>716206032 (OP)
It depends on what sort of RPG you're making.

If you making an immersive sim, people will of course compare it to other immersive sims.

Avowed was repeatedly compared to the likes of Skyrim and Obsidian did nothing to dissuade this, and even encouraged it. If you encourage such a comparison, you can't blame people's expectations for being set around the comparison's you encouraged.

The problem with Avowed is even worse though, because at different points in its development they encouraged comparisons to not one, but TWO different games. After Avowed's initial announcement they encouraged comparisons to Ultima Underworld and Arx Fatalis. After development changed directions internally (without telling people externally) they encouraged comparison's to skyrim.

It was only last minute, and barely in a whisper, that they suggested that Avowed wasn't going to be like Skyrim - but they'd encouraged comparisons to Skyrim a massive open world RPG with a lot of simulation and interactions, and Arx Fatalis one of the great RPG immersive sims.

Obsidian had no one to blame but themselves, and PC gamer are purposefully ignoring what Obsidian did in their marketing to lead them to the position they were in battling fan expectations that Obsidian set.

>>716206176
they are weak and are forced to fit into social consensus due to their weakness. it is a feminine trait. a man can defend himself but a woman needs the safety of the clan or village to protect themselves and the games journalist is no different. he/she/xe sees that certain ideas will get them shunned and disinvited so they self-censor and pretend tot go along with the group opinion. but at some point they will gain some courage, likely in response to an others actions which has angered them, and vent.
i woudl wager that PC GAMER journo was put down or put out by someone and this articles perspective of mandatory underpant theft is a reaction to a single incident involving one person and they are using their article to attack the person from distance, in their mind.
so the preted admission is an admission that they go along with the social consensus way more than they are happy with but they feel a need to self-cuck to the majority view.

>>716210407
gurgle, brush, and mardoc are the only ones that seem reasonable to live around on a daily, long term basis. brush can tardwrangle gurgle while you go into town with mardoc for supplies, assuming brush doesnt have a necro fish fetish as well. artai would be really good if it didnt make the entire team crippled to the same thing all at once

>>716206032 (OP)
No. If I wanted to get preached at, I'd watch TV.

>>716208563
I understand it Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim have plenty of Japanese and Chinese made mods so clearly Bethesda style open world RPGS are popular in Asia.
Plus there were quite a few open ended games for the PC88, PC98, Fmtowns computers
Is it just Asian consoletards being even more consoletarded than Western consoletards?

>>716212980
>there's hardly ever been a good reason to be evil in a game
It's fun

>>716206032 (OP)
>jurno defending their gay buttbuddies the terrible games they make
What else is new?

>>716209260
>Bethesda/Obsidian style RPGs are extremely hard and time consuming to make
They shat out Fallout New Vegas in 18 months.

>>716209931
>people liked decent and good games, but not the shitty one
>odd
Yeah, must be a conspiracy.

>>716214241
yes, anyone who claiming RPGs are about numbers is a fucking tranime faggot that only plays JRPGs, JRPGs are about numbers only since there is nothing else in them

any games where the bad/evil choice is also the logical choice? even if I were a bad person, it's not productive just to let everyone die or help someone that could help me in return, especially if there's dozens of people looking up to me as a leader that could potentially betray me based on my actions :)

>>716208563
>they would complain online and in reviews that the world is too open
But it's not, BG3 is mostly linear and has a set path.

>>716220370
are you an idiot?