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what the shit

>great sword
I put Giant's Hunt and heavy infuse and then proceed to not learn the boss pattern while still rolling it.

>>716261883 (OP)
Some people can't learn patterns.

>learn the 3 variations of each move that look identical but feature a random delay or slowdown in the animations
Elden Ring sucks.

Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne are incredible, everything else is junk.

>great sword
big stick is all I need

>>716262024
The flanderization of the souls games needs to be studied on how not to make a fucking game. Elden Ring has absolutely fucked the games and I'm genuinely curious how terrible the next games are going to be because of it.

>>716262161
lol

>>716261997
The fucking censoring is making me laugh my ass off, god these games are pathetic

>>716261883 (OP)
>uses a heavy sword that breaks boss posture easy
>probably dual wields and uses jumping attacks
Go DEX and really learn the game.

>>716262282
Its just something a lolcow likes to do.

>>716262161
Be specific about your criticisms.

>>716262024
>delay or slowdown in the animations
>what are feints
Try HEMA

>>716262625
NTA but Ive tried HEMA and its basically fat nerds playing pretend with foam, or fat autistic nerds saying you cant swing your sword in that way cause its not in the manual by some italian faggot, or that you hit someone too hard. It feels more like rules lawyering with a bunch of people who are too fat and weak to do a real sport rather than a swordfight.
>but my club is different
Sure man.

>>716262625
>rely on reflexes
>as you get older reflexes get worse
>rely on experience and mind games
>I know that they know that I know that they know
>game becomes a coin toss
>you won, but at what luck

no such thing against bosses in any case, bosses don't feint they randomly generate a sequence of attacks which you can't by definition predict because it's random

>>716262956
You tried HEMA? You know its a gay meetup hobby right?

>>716263018
>you tried [thing]?
>it's the worst thing and you're [slur of the week]
why must you be a bitter faggot

>>716262380
Keep your discord drama out of /v/ please

>>716261883 (OP)
No

>>716263018
>you can only shittalk game if you played it
>ive played it its a bad game for these reasons
>if its a bad game why did you play it
Jew type of argument.

>>716262956
most jiu jitsu/mma places in the early 10's where like this as well.

>>716263903
>jiu jitsu place starts on the knees
>multiple men there are fat
Just leave at that point.

Just started playing ER, never played a Fromsoft game before. Getting absolutely filtered by Margit ;___; I'm thinking this might not be the game for me.

Chicken jockey

>>716265364
don't throw yourself against margit if you've just started; limgrave is a large area with lots to explore and power up before having to tackle him
also, he's kind of the embodiment of elden ring boss design in the sense that he loves delayed tricky attack patterns; not every fight in the game is like that (though it does become more common later on)

>>716265364
If you find yourself banging your head against a wall, it's a good sign to explore the rest of the map first. Gather more runes, level up, find new gear. Margit was designed to stop you in your tracks and make you explore and gather your strength.

>>716265507
>>716265606
Ok thanks...yeah I got punished for exploring early on. Found the trap chest in the ruins near the start, got teleported to some mines across the map. There's a lot of things that aren't making sense to me so far.

>>716265364
Margit is actually pretty hard if you’re a new guy. All my friends who played ER without playing the other games got fucked by him a good bit and for good reason, he’s pretty strong and phase 2 can change pace quite a bit. Took me a few tries as a veteran but as others said, explore some more, learn to jump, strafe his super delayed attacks.

>>716265804
just go south as far as you can, that's a good start

>>716265804
Don't be ashamed to die or fall into traps. The game is being ruthless to give you a sense of danger early on. It's made to be unfair. Take your time looking at corners, tilt your camera around. Almost always the game will use ambushes and traps to punish you rushing in without carefully considering the situation. Even then, some situations will still punish you. Be patient, it's meant to test you.

>>716265804
go south from limgrave, you'll find an area named the weeping penisula which is the starter zone along with limgrave. clear it out (along with limgrave and you'll be ready to take on margit)
don't explore the area where you got teleported it's an area with very high lvl enemies
also talk to NPCs always and do their questlines

>>716261883 (OP)
says the doge jump attacking everything in sight with his metal stick 3 times his own length.

>>716266418
>>716266914
Ok, thanks a lot. I guess I'll back track and do some more leveling/exploring.

>>716263326
every Elden Ring thread is made by the same guy

Elden Ring starts out decently but the second you get to the Mountaintops the game stops being fun with enemies that have bloated to fuck health, super armor on half their moves or just move like crack addicts making practically every endgame build a "use literally every buff and busted spell/weapon art you can until you melt bosses before you get melted" and it sucks. Greatswords for example are a useless weapon type late-game since they don't do enough damage and don't do enough stagger compared to STR weapons like Colossals.

>>716266914
>also talk to NPCs always and do their questlines
Outrageous From did the same dogshit quest designs they've made for the past four fucking games they made in a giant open world.

How much/long would it take from starting the game to make a tank build that's actually effective? Like the cheapest, earliest tank build possible?
I was wondering if you could actually make one without having to fight any bosses, or at the very least, major bosses. Would it require cheap tricks to get or what?

>>716267735
>Greatswords for example are a useless weapon type late-game since they don't do enough damage and don't do enough stagger compared to STR weapons like Colossals.

>>716267889
yeah of all the things elden ring changed this was the one they felt was fine
at least they added map markers for them but it barely helps
I hope later games are closer to nightreign's quests

>>716268754
Greatswords are useless outside of spamming the DMGS or other similar WA. You can be a catty faggot but nothing changes this since at least Colossal weapons have jumping heavy attacks that not even Greatswords have.

>>716262282
shut the fuck up ***ger

>>716268673
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by tanking but there are several good greatshields attainable early on

>>716268809
>at least they added map markers for them but it barely helps
Only to like, four. Like if you want to do Millicent you're jumping around to random places with barely any rhyme or reason sometimes and if you stop playing the game for a while you're gonna have no clue which step you're at or where she might be next.

>>716261883 (OP)
What if the pattern consists of multiple random attacks, all at varying speeds (including delayed attacks) and the only way to beat the boss properly is to use a clunky-ass parry with a long wind-up and a tiny window of success?

fucking Khazan

>>716261883 (OP)
This, don't fight a boss. Just I Wanna Be The Guy it until you learn all its patterns. Games aren't meant to be fun or make sense, they exist only for bragging rights!

>>716268673
As soon as you slap endure on any weapon and get around 60% damage reduction

I think From tried to be nice to players by largely removing the concept of runbacks for bosses, but it has the effect of people feeling obliged to just fight the boss over and over again trying to learn them perfectly instead of a long runback making them feel like they should just back off and find ways to upgrade/prepare for the fight better, so they don't need to try as many times.

>>716262161
Agreed wholeheartedly. The bosses aren't meant for the player to learn in the moment like past Souls games. You're intended to die over and over until you learn each specific move and how to deal with it. The tells aren't very clear, you can have windups for minutes but it's worthless if the attack itself is only 1 frame, that's imply not reactable. You're no longer learning to dodge anything, you're just predicting when the windup is over.

Not to mention ER introduced a jump button, then proceeded to fake out the player from beginning to end by shoving ground moves that visually look like something you can jump over but can't. You're intended to roll through them most of the time, from Margit to Radagon all have these. It makes no sense. The ones that CAN be jumped over have a punish for jumping over them that's unavoidable, like Margit's dagger.

>>716269006
I guess Greatshield and/or being able to "trade" damage. Like, if we take a Crucible Knight as an example. How much or how long would it take to be able to comfortably trade hits and come out the winner?

>>716269152
True, but not what I was asking. Thank you anyway

>Learn the boss patterns
>Boss patterns have feints and delays to counter learning the patterns

>>716269471
The bosses in ER aren't meant to be "learned". They're meant to be cheesed. They have a ton of punishes for a regular player trying to play fair. You either staggerlock the shit out of them and tank their hits as much as possible before you run out of Piss Juice or spend the next >15 hours dying so you can post a no hit video and call the game easy.

>>716269350
>proceeded to fake out the player from beginning to end by shoving ground moves that visually look like something you can jump over but can't
the worst part is how inconsistent it is since there ARE attacks like that you can jump over but they're so rare and random feeling that everyone forgets them.

>>716269471
So just learn the split patterns the patterns can split off to, moar patterns is the only way From can continue making soul shit harder without making fundamental changes to how the game plays(Eg rolls no longer give i-frames and you're rolling to minimize your hitbox)

>>716268898
You're not wrong, but it's depressing how accurate this is now. Greatswords used to feel like the do-it-all baseline - decent poise damage, decent scaling, just solid fundamentals - but now they’re halfway between colossal and dex weapons with none of the strengths of either. If you’re not running a busted WA like Lion’s Claw or Flame Strike, you might as well be tickling bosses post-Giant’s Forge. And don’t even get me started on how many of them don’t even get good stagger until NG+.

>>716269350
Putting in a punish for successfully avoiding an attack is just bizarre game design.

>>716269412
>How much or how long would it take to be able to comfortably trade hits and come out the winner?
Depends on what you mean by trading.
You can parry them, use a shield, HA through their attacks or even simply use a weapon's moveset to evade their shit while attacking.
Crucible knights also scale and have different attacks depending on which one you're fighting so it's not even something you can consider a universal fight, the one in Limgrave evergaol is not really the same as the lone one in Nokrom or Ordovis.
You don't really need a greatshield either to deal with one of them unless you are truly commited to using your shield for everything even when you shouldn't, an upgrade dorito with Barricade can deal with nearly anything they throw at you outside of the tail swipe and the various optional moves some of them have like Ordovis' ash of war or the frog breath

>>716261883 (OP)
>lel guts sword
Where is my anchor

>>716269471
This would be fine to me if they had consistent tells. Like
>hit hit hit
>hit hit pause hit
but the second one has the animation startup a little differently. The way it currently is where enemies can pause for 3 business days at random before suddenly whipping out the lighting fast attack is ridiculous and unfun.

>>716269824
I don't think you know much about greatswords, they're one of the most commonly used weapons precisely because they're still able to do everything.
>And don’t even get me started on how many of them don’t even get good stagger until NG+.
This is pure nonsense, posture MVs are static and if anything you'll have a harder time staggering with each and every NG+ cycle since enemy posture gets buffed.

>>716269856
The whole game feels like it was designed around "GOTCHA" moments for people who have played Souls games before.
It's a really cynical meta way of adding difficulty because they don't know how to make any other games at this point and everyone learned how to play Souls 15 years ago.

>>716269350
The one time I had fun in an ER boss fight was against faggot #1 the grafted guy. Second phase he does a fire-wall attack and in an instinctive moment I dodged to the side, got behind a grave which took the blow but crumbled. It was a fun bit of environmental interaction.

What I can't stand now is that every boss is the same, or there's two kinds of bosses with maybe one exception (magic mommy bitch):
>Giant flailing spastic monster (Tree ulcers)
>Giant humanoid who jumps around like a naruto character, is as fast as a cocaine spider, has magical spells and aggressive melee.

Everything is the same.

>>716262161
Next game the enemy won't even finish their swing, they'll just raise their sword for 2.25 seconds and then you have to dodge or you take damage.

>holds out a colossal like that isn't the main way to not learn the boss's pattern.
Twin Moon was a very different experience for everyone who didn't spam lion claw.

>>716270335
I actually have almost no problems with that boss, he's a pretty cool fight. Radagon is also one I (almost) have no issues with, but if he decides to spam teleports which will stunlock you every time, you're fucked. Get bad RNG and he can just end the fight.

>>716270335
play sekiro where there's only 1 kind of boss and it's always kino
(I know there's big beasts but there's only a couple and they honestly aren't that bad)

>>716270614
nta but I think Sekiro has the same problems as Elden Ring. You're not meant to win, you're meant to hit every boss like a roadblock and spend a few hours learning every single attack. It's tedious.

>>716270119
>>716270094
>>716269628
its insane how insufferable you faggots are.
one thread youre crying the game is too hard and the bosses too complex
another thread youre crying about rolling as a mechanic because supposedly it makes the game too easy
well which is it you niggers?

>>716270997
Shut the fuck up nigger.

>>716270997
Very true, it's just two posters in from threads; (You) and the guy who thinks ER is both too hard and too easy

>>716270997
I think the problem is that rolling is not only visually stupid but also repetitive. In Demon's Souls and Dark Souls it's fine because you're not rolling nearly as much as you are positioning yourself. In Bloodborne, your roll is replaced with a dash while locked on, so it's more fresh. The hops and sidesteps don't look as unnatural. In Elden Ring you are consecutively rolling around on the ground like a fool multiple times in a row because jumping is usually a bad fucking idea unless you're spamming it for jumping R2 attacks with dual ultras which is probably the intended way to play the game considering everything else is punished for making an attempt.

>>716269893
Ah, okay. To clarify, in my mind, I meant the Crucible Knight you find in Stormveil. And by trading, I meant face-tanking.
I was having a conversation with someone over on discord, and we were talking about a different game. The point of it was about balancing, and how the time and effort spent trying to get to min/max a specific build would always pale in comparison to the build that didn't require such tuning due to its ease. I'm not asking you go to deep into the game for research and I've been wording myself incorrectly, but I hoped someone would've known. Anyway, it went something like
>This build is just as good, you just need this armor set
>but the armour set is 40 hours deep in the game
I realize now what I'm asking is way too broad. Thank you anyway, fren

>>716261997
Not Kunht of Crail!

>>716271232
jumping is the intended way to dodge a huge number of attacks in elden ring

>>716271584
I've never successfully seen a sweep or something jumpable, jumped it, and didn't get punished for doing so. It's either not jumpable despite being a sweep, or there's a follow-up attack intended to hit you for jumping over it. I gave up on jumping and had a much easier time with the game.

>>716271781
https://youtu.be/U9kKpd2EgG8

>>716271232
majority of the starting classes start with a shield.
there are skills and spells which also serve as maneuver methods.
>bu-but it looks stooopid! reee
its a video game you retard, it looks fine. in fact Elden Ring is the most beautifully artistic game ever conceived while still being video gamey as fuck.
you want your muh realism go watch netflix you NIGGER.

>>716271446
there is one specific build that abuses the pizza cutters and godskin swaddling cloth to restore a disgusting amount of hp and basically facetank most bosses in the game but I would consider that firmly in the category of cheese and it's also not attainable until pretty far into the game

>>716271804
>Video of some guy constantly eating shit and getting hit right after or during jumping attacks.
>Also very passive and never capitalizing on openings because you know he'll get hit for trying.
What exactly are you trying to prove?

>>716271984
Elden Ring is a gorgeous game and very fun.
The bosses are absolute dogshit and not designed in mind the player's capabilities. Feels like you're trying to beat Vergil 3 in DMC3 but you're restricted to Souls movesets.
I don't want realism, I want the game devs to stop flanderizing their own game. Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and even Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne were fine. Dark souls 3 started getting a little too much, and Elden Ring is just a parody of itself at this point.

>>716272012
anon, dont question it
everyone can do this if they spend countless hours upon every single boss learning which attack can or cannot be jumped over, rolled through, or strafed effortlessly
its a (You) problem, you just need to invest about 2k hours in the game and then you'll finally have become gud xD

>>716269032
The Millicent one would be fine if anyone gave you a hint about the Shaded Castle early one. But for whatever reason, to my knowledge, there is absolutely no hint that, "Millicent has no arm", leads to, "Go to this one minidungeon and get an arm for her".
If the Castle was at least Scarlet Rot instead of poison, you'd have a hint from the map, but even that isn't true.

>>716272242
every single boss is very
manageable and once you stop rolling like a retard you’ll realize the game gives you plenty of tools to overcome the challenge.
start dodging toward the enemy and to their side. You’ll see how often the enemy gives for you an opportunity for attack.
some bosses are better using fast weapons while others are better with trusting charge attack weapons, hope this helps you some.

>>716267735
You know you can save the Zamor Ruins for later on? Its like Margit, you're meant to eat shit and come back later. Every enemy drops 5k runes, which is a ton even for the Mountaintops.

>>716268673
>get golden fowl foot
>get spiked mace (the one with bleed)
>go to caelid
>slap greyoll's tail
>when she is about to die pop the golden fowl foot to multiply your rune gain

Enough runes to get to the 50's in less than an hour.

>>716261883 (OP)
poop eat

>>716272701
>start dodging toward the enemy and to their side
I've been playing since demon's souls, that's the most basic "did u try turning it off and on again?" advice you can give.
I don't think you even know how to fight a boss. I'm starting to think you just lucked your way through after 50 attempts and decided to call it easy anyway.

>>716272918
hey it works dont matter how old the technique is. you seem to be having a hard time with Elden Ring bosses so I thought I’d give you a pro tip.

>>716261883 (OP)
>jumping dual-weild great sword build that cheeses all bosses into a stun lock loop and chunks off 999 of health per hit
woah man I don’t know if I can handle all this hardcore-ness

>>716261883 (OP)
>Hands me the weapon for a build that lets me trade and tank hits into massive stagger openings
What am I learning again?

>>716268673
Generally everything seems to come together in the Altus Plateau for tank builds.

The keys to any good tank build these days are the Greatshield Talisman, the Crab, and the Ironjar Aromatic.
All 3 require you to access the Altus Plateau. Which either requires you to speed run the scavenger hunt for both halves of the Dectus Medallion, or beat Magma Wyrm Makar.
The Dragoncrest Talismans are also good. The basic one is much easier if you to find Deathroot somehow, which can be gotten in a few ways, or you can just run to Dragonbarrow. The 2nd tier, requires you to get to the Altus Plateau. For most of the game the 2nd tier is good enough, generally.
The Pearldrake Talismans for non-physical damage can be gotten first through the 4 Belfries in Liurnia, or again, in Altus.
The Turtle Talisman is in the Weeping Peninsula.

So if you get the Dectus Medallions, you could theoretically get a tank build online without fighting any major bosses, but you'll have to beat Fort Faroth, which has end game level scaling.

>>716272242
I agree bigly. Every time I think about replaying the game I remember how much I hated every boss fight and then lose the will to play.

>>716270321
Elden Ring is pretty easy.
It was the first 3D action game I played on a controller in literally like 10 years (I had to buy a cheap controller just to play it) and I really didn't have any issues. I'm pretty bad at video games in terms of mechanical execution and mostly play autism simulators like EU4 or Isometic RPGs like BG3.
Maybe all Souls games are like that, but only the special Evergaol bosses like Alecto really gave me a ton of guff while not also giving me the ability to strategize a solution to beating them more easily.

>>716273896
Thank you, anon. That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

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>>716265364
The game has hidden zone levels, and you went into a high level zone. People telling you to "just go wherever you want" are lying.