>choice between being overrun by a demonic horde or allying with French “”””””””people”””””””
>

>>716307772 (OP)
They're pretty much the same thing

>>716307772 (OP)
bro im a satanist the fuck option do you think im gonna pick
demons are fucking awesome

haha yeah I hate french people haha
please marry me leliana

>>716307772 (OP)

He wouldn't have even needed to ally with Orlais if he hadn't betrayed the king and the grey wardens.

>>716307772 (OP)
He didn't make that choice, the wizard illuminati controlled him

>>716307772 (OP)
I heard his character improved in the sequels if you made him a warden but I could never understand why you'd let him live let alone why anyone would play the sequels.

>>716309946
>why you'd let him live
Making him a warden is a punishment, and you're very short on wardens in Ferelden during DAO anyway. There's also the chance that he might just die in the joining.
Of course that retard Alistair thinks posioning yourself with demonblood and being forced to fight darkspawn until your death is actually is super great honor so he throws a hissyfit and runs off (or gets executed by the queen lady if you don't interfere)

>>716309946
Loghain is a bro. As soon as he becomes part of your team in DAO (replacing Alistair), he pledges what remains of his life to the Order and swears to redeem himself (and he does). His first dialogue in the camp is actually quite beautiful, and if you're a human noble who married Anora he will be quite funny when you meet him again in one of the DLC. He is still a bro in Inquisition. Pity Bioware will never be able to write characters like him again. Can you imagine their modern devs allowing you to recruit a slaver?

>>716307772 (OP)
Loghain literally did nothing wrong. God forbid you have to be the only grown up in the room to protect Ferelden independence. He was surrounded by pussies.

>>716309494
>has less content than the swamp bitch
Lelianafags are doomed to suffer.

>>716310490
>Can you imagine their modern devs allowing you to recruit a slaver?
To be fair, Veilguard went really heavy into painting the Antivan Crows as noble anti-heroes despite the fact they they are pro-slavery and evil autocrats in the other games. It's honestly pretty fucked up.

>>716311030
All us DA-fags are made for suffering at this point.
At least Leliana wasn't in Veilguard.

>>716310871
>Loghain literally did nothing wrong

>sold out your best friends son, just to power grab(wasn't even aware of the whole Orlais marriage thing)
>helped murder one of the most powerful noble families during a blight just so his butt buddy could power grab(especially cucked if you play human noble, he deserves to die just for that)
>sent some fag to poison another powerful noble who could help during the blight, just to power grab
>sold out the Circle to blood magic just to power grab
>sold out to Tevinter, supporting them in enslaving Fereldan citizens for easy money
>murder all the Grey Wardens, the only people who can stop Ferelden from being consumed
>fight a fucking civil war during a blight, just to power grab
>ends up admitting himself that he fucked up

Loghain was a fun character. But why do people pretend that he's anything other than just a generic power hungry noble?

>>716311114
I like how Lucanis' quest has my crow Rook admit he was tortured as a child, only to never bring it up again and immediately go back to being a cheerleader for the crows

>>716312190
>>sold out your best friends son
Not just his best friend's son but also the son of the woman he loved.
>helped murder one of the most powerful noble families during a blight just so his butt buddy could power grab
Did he even know about Howe actions before it happened or he just acce[t Howe because the guy was like his only ally left.
>sold out to Tevinter, supporting them in enslaving Fereldan citizens for easy money
He sold Elves and most Ferelden don't really care about what happen to some elves. They don't even consider the elves as citizens.

Loghain weakness is that he really bad at the whole politic things because he was a military genius, not a political one

>>716309494
I waifu'd Lel as a 2H warrior self-insert.
That was agony to play. 2H SUCKS

>>716312609
Should have play dual wield warrior

>>716312753
It didn't help that I refused to gear my guys up because I liked their default outfits.

>>716311030
The proper way to romance Leliana is to string her along while destroying her self-esteem

>>716312190
>deep-seated patriotism and a desire to protect Ferelden
>Had to be ruthless because his countrymen and King were literal retarded pussies
>veteran of the war against Orlais and knows that Orlais thinks Ferelden was promised to them 3000 years ago
>Justifiable in his belief that the Grey Wardens were collaborating with Orlais, thus undermining their supposed neutrality
>his retreat from Ostagar was a calculated decision to preserve a fighting force to defend Ferelden from both the Darkspawn and Orlais

He's the hero Ferelden needed but not the one they deserved. You Orlais bootlicker.

>>716309746
The "puppetmaster" twist of Veilguard was bad enough, just total hacky bullshit nobody would be happy with

but they made it 100000000x worse by tying it to actions that a) retroactively rob them of significance, and b) make no sense!!!

You're a powerful group of shadow wizards, you want to weaken Feralden and allow the darkspawn to get bad enough to create the events of DAO. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds of ways to do that, and you choose to manipulate one guy to really hate the French? Huh? If you have the power, foresight, and capabilities to perform such fine grain manipulation, then you should just close Cailan's aortic valve.

>>716312836

>>716313007
I choose to ignore Veilguard.

>>716313007
Any story after the first Dragon Age isn't canon. Call me an oldfag. I don't care.

>>716313007
kek so wait >>716309746 wasn't shitposting, there's a wizard illuminati in veilguard? are they (((elves))) too?

>>716313417
the secret ending in veilguard reveals that every villain in DA has been a pawn of the wizard illuminati called the executors
I can't remember if their race is shown, they're basically a bunch of mysterious shadowy figures that could be anything

>>716313554
Apparently they came from another continent, the original continent where humans came from

>>716312537
>because he was a military genius,
Considering the plot of DA:O, I'm not so sure about that.

>>716312984
>protect Ferelden...
>by murdering/assassinating/poisoning everyone who disagrees with him like a pussy, handing over the country to demon possessed blood mages, giving up on core ideals like slavery, and letting it be consumed by the Blight

>a calculated decision to preserve a fighting force to defend Ferelden
>sacrifices a huge chunk of the Fereldan army to the Darkspawn so he can grab power instead of preventing the battle to begin with
>spends all his time fighting his countrymen in a civil war instead of dealing with the blight anyway

Loghain is almost non-sentient he is so retarded.

>>716313961
He found in the Ferelden revolution war with the old king and was not a noble (which was one of the main reason why the other nobles dislike him). He is good...against human enemies but not so much the Darkspawn which most people already dismissed by the time he was born.

>>716312984
>deep-seated patriotism and a desire to protect Ferelden
is that why he invited slavery into a country obsessed with freedom, hired foreign agents, hired blood mages to politically meddle and cause an undead uprising, supported the murder of the only other competing teyrnir family, killed more fereldens than darkspawn during his forced reign, was the creator of the failed plan at ostagar that he then blamed on someone else?
loghain apologists are actual useful idiots

loghain is making ferelden stronger against the orlesians by getting focusing on a power grab while the darkspawn run rampant
trust the plan
two more weeks

>>716312609
Good job

>>716307772 (OP)
He's a retard and should be killed.
>Noooo! He can used as expendable fodder against the blight!
Amazing how this line of thinking dries up when it comes to Orlesian combat support, huh?
Especially when he's the one drawing up the war strategies. Any moron could make them take the brunt of the losses in that position.

>>716315278
Except the Orlesians weren't coming. It was the closest garrison of Grey Warden which just happen was in Orlais since Ferelden just recently lifted the ban on Grey Warden in their country. Not like they have time to wait since the Darkspawn was coming

>>716307772 (OP)
MY LORDS AND LADIES HEAR ME

>>716313554
>Uhhhh fuckinnnn' Ascians I don't know man
>-Veilguard writers

DaO was hardly a unique setting, it's literally just Warhammer Fantasy with a different coat of paint, but this Organization XIII twist is just hackneyed bullshit.

>dwarf noble players
>well you see, it was bhelen's right to kill our brother, condemn me to death under a lie and mindbreak our dad, so i'll help him win even harder
>human noble players
>i'm killing howe, his supporters and his family
what causes this difference?

>>716315913
>Manlets are cucks
To the surprise of no one

>>716315913
Dwarf nobility actually encourage this kind of behavior and the player character know this. They even engaged with it in the opening part. Meanwhile human nobility isn't as cutthroat as dwarves

>>716313961
>>716314319
t. Orlais internet defense force

>>716314319
They tried to do too much with him. If he were a grizzled general who is pissed that his king is both stepping out on his daughter and also is very bad at war, then you can build a lot from there

But they also made him hungry for power, wanting to be involved in politics and even worse plots than anything Orlais could have done.

Their original intent for him was probably something like "noble warrior thinks he's doing the right thing, but is bad at politics and makes it much worse by mistake", but it falls flat when the things he was doing were objectively not the right things, either morally or tactically or even logically.

>>716315913
Howe is just a generic evil murder asshole guy with zero redeeming qualities
Bhelen is kinda intriguing because he's a powerhungry asshole but with the ambition to improve the stagnant dying dwarfen society and he's fine with backstabbing, murder and taking total power to get it done

>>716315913
estrogen in the dwarf diet

>>716307772 (OP)
OP think of it this way. Lets say UFOs invade. And then Israel comes to you offering support and will move a bunch of troops and military equipment into your country. Your King is saying "Israel is our greatest ally! Come on in!"

Knowing everything you know about "them", you gonna let them in? You just gonna let your retarded King go full retard? Thats how Loghain views Orlais and the whole situation. Hope this helps.

>>716315913
Have you seen dwarf players?
Every male feminist stereotype to a T
No question they would be enamored with fantasy activism

>>716315746
Eh, it's more Game of Thrones than Warhammer

>>716316101
>Meanwhile human nobility isn't as cutthroat as dwarves
>What is Howe outright killing the equivalent to a Duke and their family and laying claim to their lands without being subtle about it
>What is literally everything Loghain does in DAO

left is who spent the most of her time in orlais
right is a woman who spent most of her time in ferelden
just in case the dog fuckers want to insinuate something

>>716320137

>>716320429
I love both versions of my wife

>>716320137
Isn't she like a magic ghost or some shit in DAI because you cut her down in DAO during the urn quest?

>>716311114
>>716312463

The book where Lucanis first appears also mention his grandmother's teaching methods, then bam, the game paints it as something completely normal, and they even show you how well that orphan in the Crows hub is treated and constantly fretted over.

>Crows are now valiant heroes taking care of orphans and fighting for the greater good
>the Dalish elves allow every race to be part of the Veil Jumpers and guard their precious elven artifacts (the two dudes standing guard in the elven vault are a human and a Qunari)
>Kal-Sharok suddenly doesn't hate Orzammar anymore and is open to diplomacy
>Isabella's raiders are good samaritans who only steal from the rich and never from "weaker" races and always give back what they stole if they find elven or Qunari artifacts in their loot
>the Mortalitasi aren't the creepy, unsettling figures Cassandra described, but Disney-esque clowns
>no slavery shown in Minrathous, the Capital of Slavery
>the ancient elves weren't really slavers, they were just forced to be by their Evil Elven Gods

>>716320617
yes a lyrium ghost or something

>>716320617
Only if you cut her down

>>716320619
>>Isabella's raiders are good samaritans who only steal from the rich and never from "weaker" races and always give back what they stole if they find elven or Qunari artifacts in their loot
This I kinda buy since Isabela definitely learn her lesson in DA2. Plus she was against slavery and human trafficking in DA2.

>>716320619
Wasn't the wacky bisexual elf assassin all about how the crows were super cruel and violent, bought orphans as slaves, made them fight and kill eachother and murdered them whenever they failed?

>>716321194
Yes, and in all 3 games it showed how cruel and violent the Antiva Crow is by showing how Zevran keep have to kill hitmen send after him.

>>716321194
Yes, DAO, DA2, and DAI showed and openly said time and time again how shitty Crows were, and this was mentioned in all the related lore texts Bioware published, too. They were basically Medieval Mafia: putting on the throne of Antiva the ruler they wanted, controlling the markets and the merchant princes, hired for the most dangerous jobs, controlling even foreign powers from behind the scenes etc.

>>716309570
...you mean the king that formally invited Orlais in the first place, planned to divorce Anora to marry Celene and the Grey Wardens that literally came from Orlais?

>>716320619
I hate it so much. The writers keep saying this was the best they could do while destroying all the old lore.

>>716307772 (OP)
He saw Orlesians raping their wives

>>716322507
>Anora
She is infertile though

>>716322627
Worst of all, they killed his dog

>>716324190
It worse, the nobleman just took the dog to breed with his dogs and return the dog after a few days and the dog was near death at that point.

>>716324190
Fereldans love their dogs

>>716318497
Did you lose track of the conversation or something? That was anon's point.

What Howe and Loghain did are crimes and horrify people when exposed. Human noble culture does not allow for those things. They're punished accordingly.

When Bhelen's "crimes" are exposed, the most that happens is that Harrowmount gives you a more sympathetic response and a better shield. It's part of their culture and government. This is also why you're able to work so well with Bhelen, including getting your name cleared and legitimizing yourself and your heir, because their system cuts both ways.

One of the very first things you can do as a dwarf noble is to murder a historian for not exaggerating your family's greatness in his book. You do so on the streets, in front of everyone, and there are zero consequences.

>>716312984
>veteran of the war against Orlais and knows that Orlais thinks Ferelden was promised to them 3000 years ago
Can I get lore rundown for this? Never heard this before

>>716324190
Wrong, his dog was stolen by an Orlesian woman.

>>716320619
The most out-of-touch line of dialogue, of any Bioware game and perhaps any WRPG period, is from an elf that learns of Solas' plans and goes "oh no, i'm worried this might make people dislike elves..."

it's one thing to be ignorant of the finer details of a world that was built by other people over a decade ago, but this is missing one of the literal pillars that everyone, even people who don't play the game, know about.

it is in fact the most important part of Solas' story and motivations. how the fuck do you miss that?

>>716307772 (OP)
>overrun by a demonic horde
You just described Britain on a good day.

>>716326681
Stolen then beaten/rape to near dead

>>716315913
The first thing I ever played in DAO was Dwarf Noble, and I sided with Harrowmont specifically because Bhelen murdered my older brother, tried to kill me, and more or less was responsible for the death of my father as well. Really bizarre that anyone who played Dwarf Noble ever did anything else, the Bhelen path is clearly intended for commoner Dwarves and it's 50/50 on the non Dwarf paths who you go for since you really don't know anything significant about either side.

>>716315746
>>716317318
literally a copy of baldur's gate
>hey, why are we paying a licensing fee, we can just make our own

>>716326434
Loghainfags have one thing in common: They've read The Stolen Throne by David Gayder and liked it. Normal people think it's just a very, very mid fantasy book which in some cases is even contradicted by DAO as well.
The only thing you need to know about it that the Orlesians are indeed very bad in this book but at least they have a working empire. Ferelden will never be more than a Rohan-ripoff, a thatched barn, where brigards drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor with the dogs.

>>716327678
I mean your older brother was an ass that shouldn't be put on the throne while your father killed his own brothers to get on the throne. The Dwarf noble would understand this as perfectly normal dwarves nobility behaviors, you can even comment how good Bhelen is.

>>716320137
She was unironically sexier in Inquisition.

>>716328712
What was your relationship with your mother like growing up?

>>716328869
Freud, more like Fraud.

>>716328981
Buddy half of /v/ is crying right now steam took down their incest games, the internet has proven Freud 100% correct on the oedipus complex
Also Electra Complex

I wanted to start a Warhammer 40k army after inspired by Grey Wardens. Would Grey Knights be a good analogue or something like Deathwatch, Black Templars?

>>716315913
>dwarf noble
>sided with bhelen
>romanced morrigan
>have loghain do the ritual with her
yep, it's gaming time

>>716329103
Crying is just a gooner's reflex, Freudian nonsense doesn't apply.

>>716329391
Lol who the fuck unironically plays and supports GW 40k besides tournament fags? Talk about a waste of money. Your models will just sit somewhere and you'll never play lol

>>716307772 (OP)
Got to admit, his hatred for the Orlasian was so cartoonishly one dimensional, I was actually rooting for him.

>>716307772 (OP)
Loghain would side with the aliens because he hates the French that much.

>>716312609
It's alright if you use a mod that increases its attack speed.

>>716320137
I think she's a bit more cheerful if you never harden her.

>>716315913
House Aeducan was always be on the throne.

Why am I unable to hate this character? They really tried.

>>716312609
That was my last playthrough as well and now I feel like doing it again

>>716309494
I romanced her and Morrigan simultaneously. I will never take non-virgin whores seriously

>>716313961
Let’s drop the moral posturing, shall we? There's no altruism in your posts, your reckless indignation led you to this thread, I counted on it.
There's no shame in it, anon. Hatred is motivation enough; at least it's honest. Hate Loghain, but hate him honestly.

>>716307772 (OP)
Reddit racism.

>>716332432
Look how they massacred my mommy.

>>716333110
The choice arrives hence.
You are presented with a dilemma.
Lets call it a two-sided coin. Sacrifice Cailen and thus the alliance with Orlais is checked. As surviving hero it would mean Anora rules as queen. Loghain made sure of it.
If the coin lands on the reverse, he refuses the sacrifice and doom Ferelden with an eternity of insufferable Orlesian presence.
Either way, the game is rigged.

Greetings
I love Morrigan

>>716307772 (OP)
im playing nwn 2 oc and its better than DAO
I really dislike the knockoff DND ruleset

>>716332432
Who is this? Morrigan's lame sister?

>>716335994
>im playing nwn 2 oc
On a handheld for ants?

>>716332432
Honestly Morrigan act ended in DAI and it was pretty nice

>>716320137
She still has the tendencies. She just hides them. She even still keeps nugs. I think she’s on her fourth schmuples.

Veilguard is not canon and I have BW's official blessing in saying that

>>716310212
It’s because Alistar never wanted to be a Templar and the wardens offered him a way out. DA consistently fails to execute its own themes. The Wardens are a morally dubious last line of defense against darkspawn yet your warden companion is an ultra naive Maker-loving prince instead of a convicted murderer or something. Origins tries to simultaneously be dark fantasy and high fantasy, the end result being blandness as it fails to preform either.

>>716338727
microled display on my pecker

>>716307772 (OP)
He found the secret third path where he avoided both

>>716307772 (OP)
The illuminati made him do it anyway

>>716307772 (OP)
Why will Loghain not release the list of those colluding with the Tevinter slavers? What could he be hiding...?

>>716328712
She did look really good

>>716342734
>the Tevinter list
are you still going on about that? witch hunt from the Bannorn, orchestrated by Arl Teagan.