Thread 716393245

Why does every longrunning game get ruined by powercreep?

>>716393245 (OP)
introducing strong new stuff is exciting. who can resist the temptation?

>>716393245 (OP)
mtg did a fairly good job of not giving in too much to power creep for a long time. and then they realized commander is actually very popular and began pushing out more product than they could reasonably test.

>>716393245 (OP)
Because it forces the players to buy the new stuff to stay competitive.

>>716394778
so does rotating formats. but they gave in to the commander hype, ruined that format and gave up on the best intro format.

>>716393245 (OP)
this was when I knew it was all over

cs doesn't have power creep

>>716393245 (OP)
This power creeps Karn as a turn 3 on Tron, but the inability to actually clear the board, or kill your opponent makes it unable to tauch 8 mana Ugin.

>>716393245 (OP)
dies to removal

>>716396357
>oponent casts ugin
>exile is on cast ability so you cant kill it in responce
>so opponent can his 0 mana draw a card artifact
>again, it's on cast
bare minimum you are down two permanents, and if you are unlucky to not have an instant removal and free mana your whole board is gone
>I will kill it next turn and rebuild
he will come down next turrn and blow your board up again.
I think they just doing 7 mana win the game cards on purpose so that games wouldnt go on forever, the problem is that it is super easy to rump

no matter the powercreep and shitty design, cosmetic cashshop is what killed MTG

>>716395017
They NEVER would've printed something like this back in the old days, I tell you

>>716395017
uncommon savannah lions from 16 years ago?

>>716393245 (OP)
>release set with incredible flavour but low power
>sales tank
It's because the target audience is insecure faggots that netdeck.
Kitchen-table jank-building flavourCHADS are a dying breed.
Fun fact though - both groups will fall into a 50/50 win-loss pattern by design on Arena and so if you spent any money at all on that game you're a retarded nigger.

>>716399458
>>716399625
Tribe matters much more now, and Human Soldier is really good one.

>>716393245 (OP)
Because each new card needs to do some thing new but in a way that encourages people to buy booster packs or boxes, powercreep is the easiest way to facilitate this because you can also just make stronger or alternate versions of pre-existing effects.

This gets especially preveilant in long running games because they'll hit a design space wall of the types of mechanics and playstyles they can introduce without changing the core ruleset too much so powercreep becomes the easier option, otherwise you end up with the same problem as Yugioh's Master Rules 3 and 4(before the current 4.5 adjustments) where the game itself gets fucked to shill new product that most players don't want to engage with unless they're forced to.

My thread got removed for posting this, yet these MTG threads are allowed?

Kill yourself, janny.

>>716399992
It matters very little

>>716400029
>twitter shit gets removed
>thread about actual game/card stays
Actually good job jannies

>>716399458
>>716399625
That's the point. Bringing Savannah Lions back as an uncommon was a clear message that power level was about to increase, and pretty controversial at the time.

>>716393245 (OP)
in MTG's case the game is the sole money maker for hasbro which is a massive corporate conglomerate. Within 5 years the game got utterly raped because hasbro would make heads roll if they didnt break profit records every year

>>716400359
>and pretty controversial at the time.
I'm not saying I disagree, but I do doubt you'd be able to significantly substantiate that people considered a rarity downshift to be the turning point of power creep considering that discourse would've only lasted about eight months at maximum before it would've been eclipsed by MtG public enemy #1.

>>716400359
>pretty controversial at the time.
this came out right after uzra block, bro. i don't quite remember the controversy of a uncommon lion.

>>716400359
No the fuck it wasn't. After Urza block, a 2/1 vanilla uncommon was fucking nothing.

>actually bitching about Ugin
nigga with 7 mana you can just erase every enemy's shit with All Is Dust

>>716404329
It's super easy to get 7 colorless and then Ugin rapes your entire board while also generating card advantage and having a built-in wincon.

>>716404735
It's only easy in formats where Tron is legal. Bring land hate and all's fine.

>>716393245 (OP)
>Hey no more planeswalker spam, most nuwalkers got desparked after the tree raped the blind eternities
>Also check out ugin out of the gay incest jail
What
What?

>>716404984
They went back to Tarkir, so naturally we needed new cards for everyone you love in Tarkir- Sarkhan, Zurgo, Narset, Ugin...
They even excluded the Dragonlords because they sucked shit!

>>716393245 (OP)
any time i hear some retard say powercreep, i imagine a little 5 year old kid throwing a temper tantrum

powercreep isn't a bad word
trying to act like a game can never add new things stronger than what came before is the dumbest fucking thing i have ever heard of in my life

>>716400029
Were you baiting like a faggot?
It's plainly obvious that no one wanted blacked LotR, so those numbers are meaningless.

Out of my friend group alone, they lost 4 separate buyers for that shit.

>>716393245 (OP)
Bro your interaction cards? Run shit that kills faggots or make them worthless, it's that simple

>>716405243
Dumb bootlicker.
Game mechanics need to actually keep up with the added power, and they never change the mechanics.
In insanely power-crept games like YuGiOh, duels are literally decided on the first turn, because the power level of the decks is so high that it stops being a turn-based game, and just becomes solitaire to win on turn 1/turn 0.

Name 1 example of good power creep that changed a game for the better.
Name 3 if you think you're hot shit.

>>716405651
They literally do change the mechanics. They've rewritten the rules a dozen times already; the latest one was literally a month ago in Final Fantasy.

>>716405651
Lorwyn's stronger creatures and value-centric design enabled the birth of midrange and tempo decks like WBG Doran and UB Faeries, both insanely fun decks

>it's LE BUSTED!!!
>seeing no play in standard

>>716405651
crybaby little bitch seething tears of a big baby LMAO

>>716393245 (OP)
but the original ugin is stronger than this one

>>716405243
And thats why we need 3 sets that totally transform modern and end up with 99% of the decks running one or several modern masters cards

>>716406275
>i should just be able to play my 30 year old cards and not care about anything new because LE POWERCREEP LE BAD

>>716405564
Except ugin's passive continues to work.

>>716393738
The original market for MTG reacted with outrage to powercreep sets like Urza's Saga and Mirrodin. (Hell, before my time, too, but early "weak" sets like Ice Age were reactions to the perceived power of super early sets). So they pulled back hard.
The new audience doesn't care about game balance and just wants broken shit, which MTG caters to with its FIRE philosophy.

>>716393245 (OP)
>powercreep
Still loses to good old counterspells.

I don't think powercreep is actually what ruined MTG. It is really bad, mind you, just like the current art direction and whatnot, but what actually killed it was crossover garbage. When Legacy, the format that celebrates the entire MTG history, was just "Lord of the Rings", that was a good sign to get out. It was a sign that they really don't give a shit about their setting or game.

>>716410306
It really doesn't, you are 2x1 yourself because he has an on cast trigger, you lose out on value in the end

>>716410306
>>716405564
>>716396357
>when you cast this
How to spot people that are bad at the game.

>>716400359
>pretty controversial at the time.
No.
>>716402980
>this came out right after uzra block, bro
What the fuck am I reading? There's more than 10 years of gap between urza block and M10.

>>716410458
That was jumping the shark, an obvious sign for retarded normalfags, but for intelligent people it was the powercreep and the woke shit after War of the Spark.
They have always been progressive but they were never full anti-white marxists with no boobs and faggots.

>>716411685
even better. 10 years to adjust

If the game didn't die with the introduction of planeswalker card type, it died the moment they printed second version the same planeswalker.

>>716410458
Also, the game is literally unplayable for anyone with a brain after all the cards started doing 3 things.

They were already pushing the envelope pre War of the Spark but after that they went full powercreep and the old formats basically started rotating with each set.
What's the fucking point? People expect to play Legacy and Vintage and play with their old cards, if they can't do that then there's no point in those formats existing.

>>716411971
for actual intelligent players, it was when they removed damage on the stack since it nerfed a ton of very interesting cards.

>>716412179
2/2 for 1 mana barely saw play.
You already had Kird Ape and Wild Nacatl. When was the last time that shit was competitive?

>>716412359
ravnica/TS standard

>>716412487
>standard
So never kek.

>>716412623
you're too young to remember. there was a zoo deck at the time that used watchwolf, kird ape, birds, rumbling slum, goyf, etc, and other 3-color decks that made use of stomping ground. you can find all sorts of lists from the time

>>716412914
It's a joke, standard is irrelevant.
Why would I ever mention wild nacatl without knowing zoo existed?