Games like Skyrim and Red Dead 2 gave NPCs daily routines but have we actually made meaningful progress since then? Where’s the next evolution? I still want:

>NPCs who remember what you did last week
>Dynamic relationships between NPCs
>Procedural life events like marriage, betrayal, or bankruptcy
>A city that actually feels like it changes even when you're not looking

What do you think it’ll take for NPCs to really feel alive, or is that even the right goal? Is this a tech issue, a design philosophy issue, or just something most players don't really care about?

>>716528258 (OP)
AI will actually be useful for this

>>716528310
That's the first thing that came to mind around the time AI started to become popular. It feels like it has a ways to go before it can do it to a high enough standard.

>>716528529
I think most AI chat bots that have been deployed in demos are too broad, they need to hugely cull what information it has to only be pertinent to in-universe characters, essentially tailor make them to fit the world

>>716528258 (OP)
Yeah, I would like NPCs remembering what you did for them. Something like smiling and being nicer to you via dialogue if you did an important quest for them. Maybe have certain NPCs talk to each other more. But, I’m okay with NPCs sticking with their daily routine. That’s what most people do irl. I’d prefer something like a super overhauled FO4 settlement system where upgrading settlements heavily affects the world: settler NPCs mood/behavior, certain main story quests, random encounters, etc.

^^ Me still but I’m going to keep ranting. Like, if you barely upgrade your settlements military, you’re just going to have John Doe farmers with rifles that have an apathetic attitude towards you. Buttttt, if you upgrade your settlements military, they start calling you “Sir” and salute whenever you pass by. They do training and stuff too

>>716529058
I am reminded of the nemesis system from shadow of mordor, could have something similar for your own units too

>>716528258 (OP)
You don't need any of the shit you suggested actually. Just look and Breath and Tears. The npcs in that game felt more than alive because of good programming, good animations and good character. I never once thought that Benny shouldn't magically be in all these different locations because it doesn't make sense. I was just happy to see her becauseshe'sfun and she's doing stuff. Logic and realism and whatnot are a waste of time and resources to create. She really only needs to react to what's happening around her, she doesn't need to do ai generated shit when you're not around. Npcs can just do shit and have story off camera that the devs program them to do. Bethesda and Cockstar don't take the time and care to give each individual npc their own story. Nintendo does.

>>716528258 (OP)
>Games like Skyrim and Red Dead 2 gave NPCs daily routines
Oblivion did it first, though

>>716529143
Non toddler alert

>>716529480
>auto corrected
Kay. Either way, what you said means nothing. It's not an argument and you're just proving me right by not having one. Let me ask you something, why do you want to start an argument over Nintendo? Why are you combatative at the mere mention of one of thier games?

Kcd 1 and 2 had npc that reacted to your state in the game
NPCs having different inventory, getting in fights, looking around for culprit was also pretty cool and step in right direction

>>716528258 (OP)
Brave fencer musashi's npcs had daily routines years before that

>>716529680
The dirt system was way too sensitive in 1. Couldn't do a single objective without getting torn up and stinky and everyone hating me. I haven't played 2.

>>716529662
Your take was extremely gay
>Dude interactivity and systems are pointless it's about animations and designs

>>716529775
One of the coolest part was going from getting treated like shit to people like you a Nobel knight

>>716529785
I didn't say that I said op's suggestions were pointless because they were not interactivity. If you played Zelda you would know they were interactive. Which I did mention. What do you think I meant when I said their programming? Characters need better programming, not any system they belong to.

>>716528258 (OP)
I think AI will make NPCs much better. Imagine talking freely to an NPC asking it about his life and opinions about the story and getting generated responses in real time. Voice generation needs some time to develop tho.

>>716530205
Ai can make anything better you hivemind drone. You're literally admitting to not thinking by saying this is news to you. Ai is literally the first technology with exponential potential which you would know if you had thoughts of your own. It's blatantly obvious to figure that out.

>>716530205
>>716528310
>>716528529
I mean you can do it rn
Downlod a 3-8b model and as it to play a character
But it's pointless unless it has some actual ramifications like them becoming upset, getting charmed or giving you some secret info
Which requires more than some LLM making shit up, you'll need another system that reads the conversation in real time and makes changes accordingly

bing lambournian grid shifting

>>716530501
Each NPC will still need programming to define what it knows, how it behaves and so on. But the conversations would be more open ended and flow naturaly. Kinda like how you could freely type keywords in convos with NPCs in Fallout 1and get more information, but grander.

>>716530431
It's not news, just wasn't implemented in any game that I know of and definetly not to the scale I am talking about. But yeah, man, AI is the future, don't you know?

>>716528258 (OP)
I want to see someone blend Rockstar Games approach to NPCs and Gothic 1 and 2's approach to NPCs.

Gothic 1 and 2 is just filled with logical systemic NPCs, they all have homes, interesting things to say and very realistic daily activities. All of the actions the NPC's take you can also take as the player, making it all feel like a uniform system. If an NPC can sit in a chair, you can. If an NPC can stir a pot, so can you (and cook food with it). Entering an NPC's home will get you yelled at, threatened and a sword brandished. Bumping into NPC's will ahve them yell at you. It was 2001 and yet it's filled with life.

GTA and RDR are also alive, but their NPC's don't feel like characters... but the way they react to the player is way more realized. Diving out of the way of the player, running for their lives from a shoot out (or joining in to kill you). Saying good morning, getting mad if you bump into them. The fun of Rockstar games has always been fucking with the NPC's and watching them react realistically... as well as avoiding getting caught. These are the kind of games you can go kill a lone NPC in the woods and if there are no witnesses you can get away with it.

I want to see both of these approaches blended for the next big RPG I think it would be incredibly fun.

>>716528826
there's a skyrim video that shows it doing that, if you ask some random NPC about a dungeon near them they'll know about it while they may not know about dungeons on the other side of the country etc

>>716531168
But consequences are still limited by stuff programmed by real people which would be finite.
I mean it would be fun to ramble with a random merchant about the history of their land and their childhood but it's just that rambling

>>716528258 (OP)
It's very difficult to do that outside of a controlled time environment like time limits or time cycles. The 3 day cycle is how Majora's Mask managed to make the world feel so alive despite being a Nintendo 64 game. There's only so much they could plan for the NPCs before they would revert to a routine cycle, on the other hand if Skyrim had a let's say a 30 in-game day limit to beat the game then the devs could plan and schedule NPCs and world events around those 30 days. Of course for an open world game where exploration is important that would be bad, so a time cycle like MM feels like the perfect solution, you can still explore and take your time but still allow for a planned timeline of events.

>>716529137
At least I have AI text adventures to simulate all of this

>>716529429
Try Gothic.

>>716531547
It's obvious it'll be finite but if done right it'll flow like an actual conversation. I like that idea for the purpose of rp, so rambaling is fine by me, sometimes you want to take a break from questing and have some dialogue with local NPCs (for example, in FNV you could talk to a farmer, solider and a gambler and get the jist of what each of them thinks about current events and thier place in the world. That is good worldbuilding and gives you diff prespectives about the plot). It'll be more immersive. I don't really have implemantation ideas, just recognise the potential.

>Skyrim
Yeah man my daily schedule is getting up at 5 am and hammering a random wall outside until it's bedtime

>>716532894
I do this all the time

>>716528258 (OP)
NPC moving around (more than walking in a couple of rooms) is bad game design. It seems a good idea on paper then you realize it means GPS and directional markers become necessary to reach given NPCs so you lose exploration and spatial awareness to follow a meme arrow. You should have realized this by Oblivion.

>>716533735
or, you could, bear with me on this, allow the player to ask other npcs where to find things, and have them give a general direction to look in that updates dynamically which would be very easy to do and, as crazy as this may sound, fucking daggerfall did it 30 years ago you stupid ape kys

>>716533735
So what. It wouldn't be bad if for certain npcs you could show a map marker.

>>716533735
>anon still has Rexxar ptsd

>>716528258 (OP)
Probably AI BS. Honestly feels like Rockstar is just gonna rush the single player for gta 6 and just focus on online crap. For real progress I'd believe in the Chinese more than western companies. They'd build some literal city full of developers and create the first mega game and sell it for 80 euros and blow everyone else away

>>716528258 (OP)
Sims 3 had a feature where you could make the world and characters progress without the player's involvement like forming new relationships, developing their careers, have children who in turn would grow up and repeat the cycle etc. It was quite neat. Alas it was no continued in the sequel and there hasn't been anything like it in a "real" game.

>>716532894
think it will rain?