Thread 717219193

indie devs are a fucking embarrassment

You should post Deltarune as that one was made when the dev was a millionaire and it still looked like babby's first Paint scribble

>indie devs do lazy shit
>get angry when other devs are lazy (using AI)
explain this phenomenon.

>>717219289
if the designs arent babys first scribble, then babies wont engage with the community and get groomed.

>>717219313
So what's DR's excuse? Why not hire a professional sprite artist

>>717219464
they did with chapters 3 and 4

>>717219464
Its the sequel to Undertale so it would be weird if it looked different

Be honest, how bad is it?

>>717219193 (OP)
What you have to realize is that more detailed doesn't mean better. The simplicity of the sprite of the player character in Undertale serves a thematic function that has to do with the subversive nature of the game.

>>717219193 (OP)
Right is a better game

>>717219604
goldensun was such wasted potential

>>717219528
Still looks like shit

>>717219589
It explicitly isn't

>>717219193 (OP)
Compare it to the game its inspired by you dishonest fuck.
>uh, earthbound is bettuh my point still stands, durr
Doesnt matter, its still less detailed than secret of mana, faggot.

>>717219302
spbp

>>717219289
Deltarune manages to avoid generic jrpg sprite eyes which secret of mana succumbs to.

>>717219724
it's a parallel story same shit

>>717219604
This is AI, right?

>>717219193 (OP)
>seething about a dev with an infinitely-higher success rate than you'll ever have

You're a fucking embarrassment.
Do something other than reposting this shit here everyday.

>>717219724
It's not a sequel in the sense of "story that happens after" but it is a sequel in the sense of "next installment on the franchise"

>>717219771
i dare you to compare battle sprites

>>717219836
Yeah, secret of mana blows ass, terrible gameplay with braindead companion AI, at least Undertale has more functional gameplay.

>>717219893
Least now youre comparing it to the game it was ripping from. Was that so hard retard?

>>717219604
Scale it down, nearest neighbor, then scale it back up.

>>717219793
yes, look closely at the melting blending of the "pixels"

>>717219836
>pretending to be a oldfag with OLD = GOOD

Yup. I'm gonna post Ramb.

>>717219193 (OP)
No, AAA devs are. All games used to be indie, and thats how it got to be the biggest entertainment industry on the planet.

Now its corpo trash and its all on fire.

Good.

>>717220125
Based rambposter

>>717219193 (OP)
Secret of Mana had
> 3 character designers
> 2 animators
> 8 programmers
> 3 game designers
> 5 executive producers
> a director
> 4 graphic designers
> 2 sound designers

Undertale had
> a guy
> Temmie
> some friends who helped occasionally

AAA games of yesteryear were still AAA games.

>>717219893
This is gonna blow your mind dude.

>>717219604
AI generated/10
kill yourself

>>717219193 (OP)
I genuinely don't give a shit about style for as long as the game is gas.

Undertale was a decen 6/10 imo.

But the soundtrack was fucking peak, i am objectively correct, y'all are tweaking

>>717220258
>game from 30 years ago
>150 devs
>$61 million budget

>>717220282
Secret of Mana also had to invent its own engine and game design principles, UT was made in Gamemaker and used established game design principles

>>717220381
I finally listened to the OST and I came to the conclusion it's only popular because it's the vidya equivalent of pop music, there's literally no unique identity to the music at all, every track is just the most obvious generic exaggerated archetype for the given scene/character possible and the obviousness appeals to brainlets immensely

>>717219193 (OP)
Who gives a shit

>>717220447
Um, you do know gaming started before the PS1, right? Wouldnt be a PS1 without arcades, pong, etc (all indie) being insane successes.

Frisk is the best representation of asians in vidya.

>>717220356
EB with 5 party members? Sign me in.

>>717220470
We can make games like Secret of Mana with a lot less work today, not just engines, but things like sprite editing are much easier, but it's still 20+ people versus mostly 2.

>>717220620
No that's Nicky from Dreaming Nicky.

>>717220540
ok then show me examples of high brow vidya music
and stay with retro-inspired games so that the comparison is fair

>>717220692
>retro-inspired games so that the comparison is fair
Why

>>717219724
>Still looks like shit
Well that's not their fault now retard

>>717220820
because shoving orchestral music here would be an apples to oranges comparison

More detailed and more realistic art is not necessarily better art.
There's no absolute measure for quality of art; and I don't just mean because taste is subjective, but rather because art in media can have different end goals.

Secret of Mana's art is better for Secret of Mana because the game is a fantasy epic that wants to pull you into the fantastic naturalistic world with detailed spritework.
Undertale's art is better for Undertale because it's a heavily ironic and comedic game where the simplistic art style is heavily incorporated into the comedy. The game would be MUCH WORSE if it had more detailed sprites like Secret of Mana.

>>717220540
The ruins theme is iconic.

Tell me a more chill soundtrack, you can use it to study, play other vidya, and most of all, do chores.

You know a soundtrack is good when you don't even need the vidya for it to be liked

I'm not saying it's the best, or that there aren't other good soundtracks, but denying it's good is just comical.

>>717221124
Anon, you're not supposed to give these kind of ragebait threads actual thoughtful answers

But you're correct, of course. Honestly, if OP wanted to really go for it, xir should use a fighting game character since those are always the most detailed-looking

>>717220912
Secret of Mana

>>717221159
>Tell me a more chill soundtrack, you can use it to study, play other vidya, and most of all, do chores.
>You know a soundtrack is good when you don't even need the vidya for it to be liked
You literally described what I claimed it was, generic poppy gamey music that has no identity of its own

>>717219695
that's because the devs completely lost the reason why they made the games, the objective the devs wanted was for the player to choose to be a villain or a hero but they couldn't put a game like that in one DS cartridge so they decided to split the first game in two parts in the first one you play as the hero and in the second one as the villain, the "third" game was just a generic JRPG that didn't do the hero/villain gimmick so it completely lost its soul

to revive Golden Sun in the correct way you need to look at the old fable games and apply the karma mechanics those games had to the protagonist so then the player could really choose to be the hero or the villain, I would also adopt Dragon Quest graphics and maintain the combat mechanics from the first two games, more freedom for choosing your party will also be needed to adapt the karma mechanics

Nintendo has a gold mine in its IPs but they decide to do nothing with them, Nazo no Murasamejou could have preceded Seikiro Shadows die Twice because of its "soulslike" gameplay in the NES but Nintendo never did something with it because "we already got Zelda" and soulslike games are pretty much dark fantasy Zelda games, they technically could still copy Seikiro and make a soulslike Takamaru game because NnMJ was always a game centered around parrying and being extremely difficult and unforgiving, and Seikiro is just one game and people still want more of it

>>717220592
lmao

>>717221124
>Undertale's art is better for Undertale because it's a heavily ironic and comedic game where the simplistic art style is heavily incorporated into the comedy. The game would be MUCH WORSE if it had more detailed sprites like Secret of Mana.
You are wrong on two counts, Undertale ultimately DOES want to be taken seriously which makes its art style a bad fit for the theme

And secondly it doesn't look bad in a comedic way like Pizza Tower, or Ed Edd n Eddy or XRA, which are still skilled and intentional uses of art to enhance the comedy, nor is it obviously an amateur-styled bit, it just looks BAD, it's not exaggerated enough in either direction to be funny, it genuinely looks like someone tried to make a good looking game to the best of their abilities but failed

Which Mana game is the best if I am only gonna play one? I want to gear up before Adventures of Elliot releases next year.

>>717221274
>haha i won because [inserts shitry gaslight]

That's your whole argument, dude undertales soundtrack has a distinct style, you can genuinely introduce it to someone who has never heard of the game or even played it and they'll like it

It's just that the game compliments it further

>>717220592
Is your art considered some of the best Netherlands has to offer?

>>717221691
>you can genuinely introduce it to someone who has never heard of the game or even played it and they'll like it
..because it has no identity nor common theme and is the most generic universally lowest common denominator appealing popslop, it's like the butt rock of game music

>>717221707
I like anon's art more than any other modern dutchman

>>717221623
like 99% of the game is comedic and 1% is serious. The serious stuff is also so concentrated in the back end of the game that by that point any player has subconsciously already accepted the art as just what the game looks like and won't feel any juxtaposition. In fact, the game even makes use of this subconscious acceptance of the norm by breaking it at the final boss and using a wildly different art style with bright colors and photographs.

As for Pizza Tower and such, I certainly agree that it's possible to make jokes using good art. However, there are a lot of jokes in Undertale that specifically are jokes based on the bad art. You can't make a joke about silly art if the art isn't silly. You can make other, different jokes, but you can't make those specific jokes which Undertale made. Therefore, the art style is needed to make those jokes.

>>717219193 (OP)
>normalfag faggotry about muh graphics but for 2d games

>>717222094
That 1% makes it an inconsistent failure

>>717219193 (OP)
Why do indie devs need to waste development time and game resources to render our 100 extra pixels that just drop the framerate?

>>717222258
No? What an arbitrarily stupid thing to say

>>717222420
Yes, trying to asspull a serious heartfelt story about genocide, child murder, child trauma etc out of a 99% amateur jokefest is an artistic failure that could only pass as good with a generation that unironically thinks watching ecelebs play games for 8 hours a day is quality entertainment

It's like Problem Solverz or Mr Pickels suddenly expecting you to care about serious drama

>>717219604
if you cleaned them up, they wouldn't look all that bad

>>717220540
>the soundtrack fits the ambience and characters
>ugh this is SOOOOO mainstream, it should have post mumble rapcore to be INNOVATIVE

>>717222747
Holy mother of false dichotomy

DRIVING IN MY TRUCK RIGHT AFTER A BEER

HEY THAT BUMP IS SHAPED LIKE A DEER

>>717222954
Holy mother of this is exactly what you're saying you disingenuous faggot, your criticism boils down to "I don't like it's not innovative". Mouthbreathers like you praise YIIK because it has a unique soundtrack

>>717221707
'fraid so

>>717223272
>your criticism boils down to "I don't like it's not innovative"
You seem to struggle with very simple sentences

>>717223335
Don't care, at least I don't use the term "butt rock" unironically like I'm a 38 year old woman who writes for Pitchfork

>>717223553
NOTHING BUTT ROCK
NEXT UP
FIVE FINGER DEATH PUNCH

Normals like FFDP right?

>>717223634
No, they like Imagine Dragons and being nostalgic about Limp Bizkit

>>717219950
it's fun until you get magic, then it's basically unplayable in multiplayer

>>717223761
Three Dollar Bill is a banger though

>>717220470
>invent it's own game design principles
secret of mana was not the first game to have people swinging a sword from a town down perspective anon

>>717219604
damn, piss filter in the pixel art too?

>>717221847
>because it has no identity nor common theme
What is this even supposed to mean?
Its identity is being a personification of lolsorandom meme culture from the early 2010's, the common theme is the faux chiptune and the heavy use of leitmotifs to tie everything together.

>>717221656
Trials of Mana for sure. Either version, though the remake has mashier combat because you have actual combo strings.

>>717223987
>personification of lolsorandom meme culture from the early 2010's
The music in UT has fuck all to do with the meme culture of the era barring a couple of goofy tracks
>the common theme is the faux chiptune
Not a theme
>the heavy use of leitmotifs
Also not a theme

>>717223987
I love leitmotifs and reprisals idk what it is

>>717220470
anon that's what the 8 programmers and 3 game designers were there for

>>717219193 (OP)
Being playing lots of Secret of Mana but a Romhack that makes it a much better experience such as leaving characters off screen which improves the pacing and better Magic Level grinding, and expanded storybeats,I have many more screenshots I can share

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/8491/

>>717219950
lol GTFO

>>717224217
Yes, that's my point, you don't need them anymore because so much of it has been prepackaged and democratized, which means that the barrier to entry should be low enough for a handful of people to recreate their own Secret of Mana if not make it from scratch

>>717224120
The culture of the era was all about making pop culture references. UT's music is all about referencing the music from classic games, from parodies to using the same samples.
>Not a theme
Then give me your definition of theme.

>>717220258
What if there’s a planet with a Frog Civilization? Idk the fact that there’s a Pepe in 80% of threads just got me thinking

>>717220447
Get Frogged, hope you have a Maiden Kiss

>>717220447
A look at the FF7 development history and journey is quite fascinating

>>717222658
>that unironically thinks watching ecelebs play games for 8 hours a day is quality entertainment
as opposed to what? shitposting on a political videogame imageboard?

>>717219193 (OP)
I know this is the same faggot posting these bait threads and I fucking hate ubdertale, but you DO realizes there were different eras of pixel art, right?

>>717219193 (OP)
Does Undertale feature Evil Clones you fight at some point in the game?

>>717224309
excluding them, it's 1/7th the programmers (toby did basically all the coding himself, plus he's also pretty mediocre at it)
and he's also pretty mediocre at art, temmie is good enough but that's still just 1 actual decent artist doing most of the graphical work together with a mspaint scribbling shitter
there ARE indie games that have really good graphix, but that kind of thing varies a lot depending on each developer's own skills since they are usually 1-3 man jobs
which is why undertale has overall very mediocre graphics but really good music, character designs and a engaging story
you also have owlboy which is kinda the whole opposite, game looks beautiful but everything else is more or less forgettable

>>717222658
At least give examples of games that can do serious things well. You're not even trying.

>>717219193 (OP)
Is there even a modern indie game with pixel art that isn't Tumblr-y as fuck?

>>717224576
>fucking Atari 2600 has better pixelart than your game
Jesus, low blow there

>>717219604
Just draw over them and they'd make for decent sprites, although still quite generic

>>717224539
Watching a nature documentary

>>717223860
Yeah it is

>>717219193 (OP)
8 bit = 4 colors per sprite

>>717224664
Yes

>>717224612
once but you can only loose to it

meanwhile six amateur artists in under a year

>>717224664
No. Non-woke people don't make videogames because it's a hobby for children.

>>717224667
A boy and his blob is fucking ugly, what are you talking about? (Also that's NES, not Atari, which definitely makes it worse)

>>717224759
one thing has barely anything to do with the other
4 colors is a 2bpp format