Name someone who is like this.

Game that are like Souls series

Imagine taking time out of your day every single day to get mad at the phrase "immersive sim"

>>717225887
Sure
>>717225890
>>717225984

>>717225810 (OP)
any game where you roll and poke and the story was passed through a 5 year long game of telephone

third person action game with a focus on proper positioning/dodging that heavily punishes mistakes/deaths
probably more to it than that but this gay thread is not worth the time

>>717225810 (OP)
An action game with a focus on bosses with simplified combat where the primary functions are an i-frame dodge and an attack buttons, where the boss dictates what you're allowed to do. passivity is a big part of it.

>>717225810 (OP)
> Souls-Like =/= Hack and Slash.
Lol, outed yourself more than the wojak you quoting. Hack and Slash are more like Kingdom Hearts, DMC, Bayonetta and McGee's Alice, Prototype, Arkham Asylum and Darksiders. Now where Souls-likes come in and differ:
> Slower attack phases, you can't spam/parry attacks easily and opponents usually break your combos by forcing you to dodge or get hit with unblockable damage.
> Places to rest which respawns all enemies you just killed other than "Boss" monsters so you can continue to farm "Souls/EXP" needed to upgrade.
> Usually your gear matters more in Souls-Like games when it comes to access to abilities rather than power ups through a skill tree which all weapons of that sort share with each other in a Hack and Slash game instead.
Yeah, you guys really lost the plot.

>>717226160
So Fable is a Souls Like

>>717226163
So Bayonetta 1 is a Souls Like

>>717225810 (OP)
>picrel
I look like this and say this

Doom Clone is what FPS was called before the term FPS was coined. See also Diablo Clone.
Souls Like is not a Hack-n-Slash, that's a simpler arcade genre. think Gauntlet or Golden Axe.
Immersive Sims, aka 0451 games, are highly interactive games inspired by the likes of Thief, System Shock, and Deus Ex. Basically they rely on many small game systems interacting together rather than pre-scripted events.

A game like Demon's Souls

Sonic is a Souls-like because you lose coins when you die, and Sonic games cater to their fans weird fetishes, intentionally or otherwise. Both are core tenants of the souls-like.

>>717226607
So Ninja Gaiden is Souls Like

>>717225810 (OP)
Rollslop

>>717226715
>See also Diablo Clone
they are still called diablo clones

>>717225810 (OP)
>Wtf is "Souls Like"?
Rollslop

>>717226701
sure why not

>>717226827
the genre is more broadly called Action RPG now

>>717226715
So immersive sims are the greatest games ever, and geniusjak in OP is correct.

>>717226852
>>717226815
So Fable is Souls Like

>>717225810 (OP)
why are underage sharty/election tourists incapable of thinking outside of the context of ugly fuck retard jaks

>>717226942
fable has little to no punishment for death and you can quite easily tank attacks in that game
so no

>>717226715
>System Shock
You mean SS2.
System Shock 1 is not an immsim

>>717226813
Its more hack and slash than Dark Souls due to the other factors, you aren't reliant on rolling through attacks to win.

>>717226904
Wow
What faggotry.
Its a hack n slash you retard

>>717225810 (OP)
a souls game that isn't created by From

>the genre-blind Enlightened One
"It's a fun game"

oh look, its another fucking wojak

>>717226942
Yeah I guess so

>>717227109
you get the effort you deserve

>>717225810 (OP)
ARPG trying to copy Demon's Souls.

>>717225810 (OP)
I know it when I see it

>>717227141
I'm convinced basedjaks are a psyop. I saw one that challenged the way I think the other day and changed my opinion because I didn't want to be reddit.

>>717225810 (OP)
that meme should add JRPG (can't define) and ARPG (used purely for diablo-like games)

Bonfire system

>>717225810 (OP)
goyslop

>>717227334
ARPGs are like nier automata or dragon's dogma or FF16

>>717227334
>JRPG (can't define)
turn based RPGs inspired by Dragon Quest and Wizardry, largely made in Japan but sometimes made outside of Japan by weebs.
compare and contrast WRPG, CRPG, SRPG.

>>717227489
This is true but people won't like it

>>717227334
> JRPG: Any RPG made in Japan.
> Of course Fire Emblem is a JRPG.
> What's a Strategy RPG?
That's how deep that should be.

>>717227489
nier a tomato is a Character Action Game though.

>>717227561
>he turned himself into a pickle
Funniest shit I've ever seen

>>717225810 (OP)
There's only like 12 or so genres:

Action
Adventure
Shooter
Racing
Fighting
Puzzle
Sports
Arcade
Platformer
Simulator
MMO
Strategy

There's a few others I'm probably forgetting. No RPG is not a real genre, they are actually Action or Strategy games depending on their gameplay. No survival horror is not a genre, they are actually Adventure or Shooter games depending on their gameplay. No VN is not a real genre, they aren't games.

>>717226924
nobody besides carpal-tunned-ridden psychos call it that
there are like 5 other games besides diablo that adhere to the style, and jrpg-derived arpgs with actual action gameplay appeared not long after

>>717227004
>post Arena is impossible without Hiw's sword

>>717227141
The world is soulless now, nu internet is merely an expression of this

>>717225810 (OP)
Characteristics of a "soulslike"
1: It's an action game.
2: It has an i-frame dodge.
3: If you die, you drop your skeleton juice on the ground
4: Enemies don't respawn until you rest.

>>717226715
System Shock was called a Doom Clone when ir came out lol

>>717227705
if you're going to be that pedantic, isn't a shooter just an action game?

>>717226271
>focus on bosses with simplified combat where the primary functions are an i-frame dodge and an attack buttons, where the boss dictates what you're allowed to do
thanks for outing you have never played a souls games before.

>>717226983
>i am very high iq and you a poopy brains!
Dunning.
Krueger.

>>717227790
> You drop your XP on the ground.
Yep about sums it up.

>>717227713
ARPGs have of course evolved beyond Diablo, just as FPS has evolved beyond Doom, that's why we needed to coin a term to replace Diablo Clone.

>>717227824
yes, see point #1 in that post and >>717227023

>>717225810 (OP)
game has the same mechanics as dark souls
steam has an extra tag for soulslikes
everyone in the comments under the trailer is tired of the soul mechanics

>b-but it's a hack'n'slash

no it's not
it's soulslop
bonus points if it's chinese with wuxia theme and starts its name with Wu

to be fair nobody can define immersive sim

for some reason system shock-like wasnt good enough

>>717227847
No, Action games are generally melee combat focused, where as Shooter games are focused on accuracy.

>>717227705
based

>>717227705
>action
>shooter
>racing
>fighting
>sports
that's just all action games.

>>717225810 (OP)
souls like follows the rule of dying resets the enemies and drops all obtained resource and said resource is used both as experience and money

>>717227967
System-Shock is a Doom-Clone with RPG elements. Immersive Sim is just an FPS game with RPG elements. Hell you would probably call Vampire the Masquerade an Immersive Sim.

>>717227997
You can call Action games "Beat em ups" if it helps you understand better.

>>717227967
you can't define the color red but you know immediately what it is when people say it. same is true of an immersive sim.

>>717228053
so an immersive sim is like gta or cyberpunk?

>>717227997
Wrong.
> FPS Games/Rts/Mystery/Detective Games: Point And Click Games.

>>717225810 (OP)
>Action game has a checkpoint system
>"OMG IT'S A SOULSLIKE!!!!"

>>717227705
Based.
HVe a sexy for your trouble

>>717227992
>Action games are generally melee combat focused
>Shooter games are focused on accuracy
accuracy? you mean like pressing a button like a dodge roll at the correct time? if only we had a genre name for that

>>717228053
bloodlines is an immersive sim thoughever

>>717228095
More like Ready Or Not would be an immersive sim technically speaking or the SWAT games.

>>717228080
no, they are all action games
learn the genres.

>>717227705
>No RPG is not a real genre
I would've agreed with you if you didn't put that part in. At least commit to it: Action and Strategy are the only genres

>>717228053
>Immersive Sim is just an FPS game with RPG elements
incorrect. compare the original Deus Ex to Mankind Divided and Human Revolution. the latter two are far less reactive to the player and are no longer imsims because of it.
Deus Ex outsourced its bossfights and booted the player out of stealth in a cutscene, for crying out loud.

>>717227648
No because unlike CAGs, Nier A actually has level up mechanics and other RPG systems like loot and leveled equipment.

>>717228254
RPG used to be a real genre. But it was cannibalized long, long ago.

>>717227967
I can and nobody has ever topped my definition
IMMERSIVE SIM:
An FPS designed to make the player feel clever

>>717228323
CAG with rpg elements is still CAG, just as FPS with rpg elements is still RPG.

>>717228387
I can't even disagree with you about that and it pisses me off

>>717228031
So Doom 1 is Soulslike

>>717227705
>No RPG is not a real genre
what is planescape then?

>>717227665
That's not funny. It's Paganism.

>>717228414
that would include Half Life, which is obviously wrong.
hell you felt clever in Doom tricking the demons into fighting eachother, or finding a secret.

>>717227705
if we go with that logic then action=adventure=shooter=racing=fighting=sports=arcade=platformer
puzzle=simulator=strategy
and mmo is not even a genre, it's just the platform the game is running on!

>>717228271
An immersive sim is a game where you can stack boxes to get to places where you could've gotten without stacking boxes. That's all it is.

>>717228440
No because you get shit like witcher 3 or fallout 4 where people deny them being rpgs and just call them action adventure games or a third person shooter.

>>717228053
System shock 1 has zero rpg elements.
You only played ss2

>>717228535
I don't think you get it. He turned himself into a pickle anon. He was pickle rick.

>>717225810 (OP)
Like dark souls.... but crap.

>>717228485
you don't drop experience or money in doom 1 so no

>>717228570
>No because you get shit like witcher 3 or fallout 4 where people deny them being rpgs
and they're right to do so.

>>717225810 (OP)
"Metroidvania"

>>717228503
I haven't played Planescape, so I can not fully judge it. But it's either an Adventure game or a Strategy game depending on it's overall focus.

>>717228414
Ultima Underworld is the first immersive sim and it's not really an fps

>>717227564
how about Tales of and the other shitloads of action rpgs that are always labelled as "JRPG" by pretty much everyone?
also how about Pokemon that despite being a typical turn based japanese rpg is almost never labelled among JRPGs?

if you want to refer to DQ-like games then why the fuck not just use DQ-like instead of the absolutely nonsensical "jrpg" term that can mean fucking anything except literally refer to japanese role playing games in general like how it should

>>717227897
>ARPGs have of course evolved beyond Diablo
You seem to be part of the problem.
ARPG does not mean "Diablo Clone"
it's a huge genre that's existed since the 80's and covers things like Ys, Mana, Tales, or Star Ocean, to name some of the more well known series that are still running

>>717225810 (OP)
A hugboxed game that gives you immunity frames when you roll.

>>717226607
>rightfully call soulshit games hack and slashes
>retarded soulsnig loses its mind and starts babbling bullshit
everytime with these hack and slash kiddies

>>717225810 (OP)
Top right isnt even correct

>>717228560
When I say "MMO" as a genre, I mean the tab target combat it employs. I feel like it is unique enough to be considered it's own genre. There are MMOs that I would consider different genres, so I guess "MMO" is a poor label for it.

>>717227301
The first few hundred edits were all made by one guy.

>>717228542
Okay how about
We ditch "immersive sim" alltogether abd just call it
"Warren/Levine Core"

>>717228503
>what is planescape then?
Is it like RuneScape?

>>717228271
>>717228563
Physics based engine play?

>>717228658
>I haven't played Planescape
i can see why you would say something assanine like "rpgs aren't a genre" then

They are correct though you hack and slash in a soulslike. Its the proper evolution of the one of the first hack and slash games aka diablo 1. A core component of hack and slash games is dungeon crawling which soulslikes also have.

>>717228869
NOOOOO NOOOOOOO I ROLL THROUGH THINGS AND MOVE MY CHARACTER AROUND TO AVOID ATTACKS IM NOT HACKING AND SLASHING NOOOOOOO

>>717228620
Upon death in doom 1 you restart the level without any wespons or pick ups ecen if you picked them up in the previous level

>>717226813
Does it have a stamina bar? Does it have RPG mechanics for builds and using items/spells? Does it have checkpoint mechanics that can be used by the player at any time but then respawn enemies after refilling player health? No? It's not a soulslike. And, yes, that means most things call soulslike also aren't soulslike, because they aren't.

Seriously, why does everyone forget about the fucking stamina bar?

>>717227897
>ARPGs have of course evolved beyond Diablo
have they really? or is it one of those "we can't call our game a DOTA clone since it's our direct competitor, so we're gonna force MOBA" situations? cuz once again, i've never heard anybody (besides madmen and marketing blurbs) describe those as arpgs
as a man completely uninvolved with the genre, i know of PoE, torchlight, and soldak games, is that enough to define a genre?
but i know plenty more action rpgs, whether leaning into action or rpg part

>>717228641
A game with a unified map where progress is blocked by abilities that you need to find and then return to previously inaccessible places

>>717228641
Kek
I saw faggots call stellar blade "le souls like"

>>717228747
> Can't bother to read.
You are gay and dumb, in souls games your abilities and attack patterns are tied to weapons, in hack and slash your weapons are pre-determined types of weapon (only their aesthetics change) and you get more powers through buying them from the upgrade grid or skill tree etc. In Hack and Slash you always carry and are able to use your abilities through quick buttons, in Souls Like? You need to switch out your gear to use other gear.

"Hack and Slash" and "Beat em ups" are the same thing btw.

>>717228970
It is though

A soulslike is an exploration heavy 3D action adventure game where combat is relatively slow, deliberate, and timing based. Typically the overworld has branching paths and shortcuts that can be unlocked leading back to previous areas.

>>717228679
The meme is real

>>717228970
funny enough, it is! an easy one but still follows the souls rules!

>>717228926
Wo Long, Sekiro and Stellar Blade dont have stamina bars but people still call them soulslikes.

>>717228791
Makes you wonder

>>717228702
>how about Tales of and the other shitloads of action rpgs that are always labelled as "JRPG" by pretty much everyone?
awkward, but still JRPGs. no one said genres were perfect or static.

>also how about Pokemon that despite being a typical turn based japanese rpg is almost never labelled among JRPGs?
also RPGs, as DQV or Robotrek were before them. Pokemon fans only play Pokemon so genre is irrelevant to them.

>>717228802
that's already what imsim means, Warren himself coined the term. you may call it 0451 game if you prefer.

>>717228713
re read the post again until you stop being stupid.

>>717228928
>i know of PoE, torchlight, and soldak games
those are games that specifically seek to copy Diablo 2. you might reclaim Diablo Clone to refer to these specifically, but it's a situation akin to Boomer Shooters going back to the Doom well.

>>717229018
Abiotic Factor is a soulslike?

>>717226715
just because some retards called fps games "doom clones" doesn't mean it wasn't a fucking trash term already you moron, that's the point. Same with all the other shit you listed.
"highly interactive game" is not a fucking description of a genre either

>>717225810 (OP)
The problem with calling anything hack and slash is that the genre includes anything from DMC to Diablo.

>>717225887
This guy

>>717228749
>When I say "MMO" as a genre, I mean the tab target combat it employs
most mmos do not in fact use this style of combat, its the minority.
so you are just doubling down on that you know nothing about genres.

>>717228908
Ssved

>>717229025
>Define "immsim"
No.
>>717229056
I tried WuChang and it definitely felt more like Sekiro than souls. It also sucked.

I have literally never met a sane person who used the term immersive sim. A sim by defitinition is already supposed to be immersive.

>>717229090
>"highly interactive game" is not a fucking description of a genre either
only because you are stupid and obstinate.

>>717229147
how the fuck do you immerse playing sim city?

>>717228992
Wrong, Beat Em Ups generally follow a more 2D pattern and fighting games used to be called Beat Em Ups even to the point of Tekken 3, Diablo was unironically called Hack n Slash.

>>717229138
Wuchang is a soulslike. Wo Long is a sekiro clone. Sekiro is its own genre now.

>>717229008
Jfc you can't make this shit up

>>717228609

>>717229207
You mean belt scrollers.

>>717225887
I look like this and do this

>>717229193
I dont know, how do you immerse yourself playing other sim games like ck2 or mount and blade or euro truck simulator?

Whole thread is bait

>>717229018
So Mario 64 is soulslike

>>717229217
there can be sekiro clones but they are all still souls like

>>717225887
You.

>>717229207
Devil May Cry has more in common with Streets of Rage than it does with Diablo.

it's a monkey ball-like

>>717229056
Wo long is soulslike, skeiro is not a soulslike, stellar blade is a soulslike.
soulslikes are rpgs first and foremost, if you do not have character power derived from level ups, stats, equipment, etc you are not a soulslike at all period.
they are also focused on enemy complexity rather than player moveset complexity.

Sekiro is just an action game. It is not a soulslike at all and fails the the definition at every requirement of the genre.

>>717229218
Most of these posts are bait anon. You have asperger's.

>>717229273
dunno ck2, but for one they are all in first person

>>717229062
>awkward, but still JRPGs. no one said genres were perfect or static.
at what point do you realize that this genre is actually nonexistent and you are just labelling shit as JRPG or not based on whether you think it appeals to a weeb audience or not?

you morons have no issue labelling a game like code vein as a jrpg, while insisting that dark souls is not a jrpg, when the only difference is that one has an anime artstyle while the other isn't, despite the latter also being a very unique game of Japanese origin. Same with shit like god eater vs monster hunter.

>>717229286
You just said that soulslikes need to have stamina bars.

>>717229273
>or euro truck simulator
simdad cockpit

>>717229062
>re read the post again until you stop being stupid.
>>717227897
>that's why we needed to coin a term to replace Diablo Clone.

Diablo players didn't coin "ARPG"

>>717229105
And what is wrong with that?

>>717229253
Technically yes, popular Beat Em Ups were like Double Dragon at the time when Fighting Games started to develop through SF2.
>>717229336
Wrong Devil May Cry has more in common with Battletoads.

>>717225810 (OP)
A crpg is a game played on the 'puter where you play a role.

>>717229337
We should brute-force that into being a meme

>>717229364
>just labelling shit as genre or not based on whether you think it appeals to a genre audience
yes anon that's what genres are

or do you think the only two categories in a book store are "fiction" and "non-fiction"

>>717227764
if you're fucking trash at the game, sure

>>717229369
I'm not that anon, my souls like rule is just this >>717228031

>>717229062
>you might reclaim Diablo Clone to refer to these specifically
what benevolence
but does this diablo-but-not-the-second-one-inspired genre even have enough clout or presence to rival piranha bytes at least? you insist that it's just what it is, but I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY HEARD ANYONE BUT YOU LOT USE THE TERM LIKE THAT
as matter of fact, i've also got into an argument with a nominalist like you that called diablo clones "hack and slash" games before dmc and more explicitly actiony stuff was released

The problem with "immersive sim" is that a bunch of games are put into this category.
Like people will tell you that System Shock 2, Thief, Deus Ex and VtMB are all immersive sims and then be surprised that they can't come up with a definition.

>>717229338
By that definition, is Nioh a soulslike or a diablolike?

>>717229337
They're already called "Marble Games" by the 12 people who actually play them

I wish some of the cooler genre names had caught on, like ego shooters, procedural death labyrinths, and dream walkers

>>717229441
>do you think the only two categories in a book store are "fiction" and "non-fiction"
You can oversimplify anything, including that.

>>717228936
So Zelda games are Metroidvanias?

>>717229164
I don't think you understand what "genre" means you actual retard. This description is so fucking vague it literally fits all video game genres except for the very casual ones.

and regardless, the "immersive sim" name itself is just fucking stupid. Simulators are an entirely different kind of genre that this shit has nothing to do with.

>>717229514
>dream walkers
those are cool, the issue they are too same-y

>>717229494
>s "hack and slash" games before dmc and more explicitly actiony stuff was released
I already said Hack-n-Slash is an arcade genre for games like Golden Axe, don't argue with me by proxy.

>>717227334
diablo is hack n slash

>>717229503
Nioh is obviously a soulslike as the gameplay mechanics are still a soulslike.
changing the type of loot and gearing doesn't change the genre, ARPG's don't have some set type of required loot and gear systems despite it being a staple of the genre.

>>717229541
he forgot to write that it's a sub-genre of Platformer specifically.

>>717229541
HOLY SHIT it is!

>>717225810 (OP)
we need one of these memes but for people that make these memes

>>717229556
>Simulators are an entirely different kind of genre that this shit has nothing to do with.
right, so stop conflating Simulators with Immersive Sims. they're different genres.

>>717229597
golden axe is beat em up
gauntlet is maze action

>>717229541
Essentially

>>717228791
And when 4chan got hacked, they found that all of them originated from an Air Force base.

>>717229659
Then stop calling them sims. They are not simulators in the slightest.

>>717229541
Zelda's maps are separated into the overworld and dungeons

>>717228641
>Castlevania adds a coherent world
>WHOAAAAA ITS LIKE METROID NOW
Further proof that Nintendo is sent by God with divine right to make perfect video games.

>>717226625
Yeah if you could stop time in Dark Souls and dash around at super speed and spam magic attacks that 1 shot bosses but almost the same.

>>717229668
>golden axe is beat em up
it's got swords, so it's a hack-n-slash. or a slash 'em up.

>>717229754
You can do that in a lot of newer soulslikes desu.

>>717229781
nope, the capcom dnd games have always been beat em ups too

>>717229597
you retard, i just mentioned another retard to highlight how your TOTALLY ESTABLISHED WELL KNOWN GENRE is not even consistent among its fans
just list some fucking games so i can actually look at them and judge if they really "evolved beyond Diablo"

>>717225810 (OP)
I can't believe that these dumb niggers have looped around and are now running counter-espionage against their own fucking psyops. Are you guys fucking retarded?

>>717229714
I will not, and you cannot stop me. if it angers the sort of asshole who shits up Ace Combat threads then that only encourages me.

>>717229781
streets of rage is a beat em up that becomes a slash em up when you pick up a knife

>>717225810 (OP)
The most soulless shit imaginable.

>>717229495
The truth, friend?
Is this:

There are people who like a fame "Dark Souls for example), but they are intensely pretentious so they must invent worthless points of distinctiom so they can "elevate" the game they like.
They are just building a high horse out of cope.

TLDR

>Soulslike
>Doomclone
>Metroidvania
=
"NOOO I AM NOT LIKE EVERBODY ELSE I AM SMART AND SPECIAL. A HIGHBORN!!"

>>717229856
The genre literally fucking has the word "souls" in it

Vore-like (katamari, roco loco, agario, carrion, snake)

>>717229854
no, but if the character had a permanent knife then it would be a slash em up.

character action game is the most ridiculous name ever. Just fucking call them action games. Nobody ever uses this term.

>>717229870
Wrong, they were always used more or less as:
> Oh its a game that does similar things as that one.
Nothing else really. Music genres are similar, you have a first thing then the first copy-cats and originals that sort of fit in the same genre and then they have a name for the genre pop up later. Not really any different.

>>717229915
Your "genre" also has man in it but you've never fucked a girl, have you?

>>717225887
this entire website

>>717228910
then thatd be more like a roguelike. or a roguelite
whats the difference again?

>>717229991
I unironically use it because I'm not a brown zoomer with sub 90 IQ.

>>717229991
>Nobody ever uses this term.
developers of Character Action Games use the term.
players of Character Action Games use the term. sometimes also CUH-RAZY although that has fallen out of favor.

>>717230043
I lost my virginity at like 14 lmao what does that have to do with anything?

>>717227141
>2005 to 2015 old internet
zoomer propaganda, internet died in 2006

>>717230081
>players of Character Action Games use the term.
Pretty sure people used stylish action game or spectacle action game before.

>>717229441
I don't think you understand the issue
I just exposed that you don't actually even have a definition for what you think JRPG means, it just feels like you have a definition for it because some popular titles follow some pattern in it, but in reality you are just labelling games based on an entirely different and undefined mentality that in itself doesn't deserve a genre

dq-like games
anime rpgs
turn based rpgs
strategy rpgs
4 niggas in a row games
these are more what you could call "genres" since they actually give a rough idea of what the game is like
"jrpg" (as in the way you and most normies want to use it) means fucking nothing, just "rpg that weebs mostly like". At that point literally just use jrpg for japanese role playing games since that pretty much covers the same topic.
It's like you retards just insist on using jrpg in this nonsensical way just to disclude dark souls, despite it also being a peak example of unique japanese game design

>>717230142
Are you unable to understand the concept of a joke and banter?

>>717230171
those exist also, but Platinum calls their games Character Action Games.

>>717229991
I like "Spectacle Fighter" that Yathzee came up with

>>717226625
soulslop must have at least 2 of these features
>no pausing mid fight
>no jumping
>lost currency on death
>bonfire that respawns enemies

>>717228982
>soulsnig called out on babbling bullshit
>babbles some more bullshit
Hack and slash kiddies need to cope

>>717230228
No

>>717230192
Yes, problem officer?

>>717230081
developers use the wacky made up genre names for each series because they are japanese and that's how they do shit over there

>>717230268
Stellar Blade only has 1 of those.

>>717230225
>It's like you retards just insist on using jrpg in this nonsensical way just to disclude dark souls, despite it also being a peak example of unique japanese game design

obviously, Dark Souls is related to JRPGs but is not a JRPG.
same thing with Dragon's Dogma.

>>717230297
Good.

>>717230352
Stellar Blade isn't a soulslike, it's a hack n' slash. maybe an action game

>>717230280
Name (1) hack and slash game prior demon souls etc fromslopware games that used equip-screens from RPGs, stat upgrades in order to unlock better weapons rather than abilities and it must also have XP grind as part of the gameplay loop between boss fights. You can't name a single one.

>>717230303
This. TN is unironically using the word Masocore for Nioh games because they don't want to be associated with the term soulslike.

>>717229998
music genres are the most retarded shit and 99% of the people who talk about them have no clue what they are saying
>it sounds like
if you ever hear someone say this you can safely ignore anything they have to say about music genres
you need to use objective measures when talking about genres, things like instruments, time signatures, common sequences, song structure, and the surrounding context (as in was it a standalone piece, apart of a greater collection, etc)
artists having their own style and how they create work inside a genre isn't a new genre, even if others decide they want to copy that style to a degree.

>>717230052
Roguelike are games like Rogue.
Spoiler: Rogue is a turn based game.

Roguelite if a game of any genre that's built around the idea of "runs".
The parts it takes from Rogue are specifically procedural level generation, and if you die you lose your character and your world instance.

>>717230303
>developers use the wacky made up genre names
spoilers: all genre names are made up. and most are also wacky, which is why we are arguing about them.
there's no functional difference between a beat-em-up and a hack-n-slash but that's what they were called at the time and no one has thought up a better umbrella term for them.

>>717230405
Diablo

>>717230405
Diablo 2 and the rest of its ilk.

>>717230405
Diablo

>>717229385
Those games are nothing alike. Genres exist so I can find more games like the one I played, not so people can feel happy about the definitions they've assigned to them.

>>717230452
>>717230303
Reminds me of how Kojima invented the strand-like genre.

>>717225887
/v/-san

>>717229385
Some of it's rollslop and others are ludokino

>>717229991
Initially people started using it differentiate themselves from most action games as they wanted to say they had more complex and in depth combat.
Which was not true as they were the same as 99% of the rest of action games having dodges you can cancel from anything with enemies who barely do anything, just that they had expanded player movesets.
Evolutions in action games and focus on making commitment to your attacks and choices has made people who use the term now use it as a way to say they are different from other types of action games because they are still using the outdated and disliked older design principles.

its basically always been people who are unhappy with action games, usually because they are bad at them, and want to memorize combos to avoid needing to actually play the games.

>>717230575
Most definitive thing of a Genre is:
> Gameplay loop.
Second Most:
> Perspective.
Third Most:
> Target audience demographics.

>>717230421
>you need to use objective measures when talking about genres, things like instruments, time signatures, common sequences, song structure, and the surrounding context (as in was it a standalone piece, apart of a greater collection, etc)
but that's retarded navelgazing. all i want to do is find more music that sounds like the music i like. that's what genre is for.

you don't look at the fucking page count and typeface to determine if a book is sci-fi or gothic romance.

>>717230383
Thank you

>>717230452
>relativist non-point
i'll tell you more you moron: all names are made up and that's not something you should conclude your point on just if you have nothing worthwhile to say
what i was referring to was the practice of japanese developers to describe their games in unique but genre-adjacent terms
the only one that got really relevant outside japan was "tactical espionage action" i think

>>717225810 (OP)
roll 'em ups
wait, maybe that fits katamari-likes better...

>>717229105
Daily reminder that Diablo 3 also had rolling in the PS3 version, 12 years before Path of Exile 2 decided to be a soulslike ARPG hack and slash diabloclone.

>>717227705
You're not wrong but the List has been updated.

>>717230052
Roguelikes are top down simultaneous turn dungeon crawlers focused on resource management.
Roguelites are rogue legacy thinking the main element of a roguelike are permadeath and procedural generation and then making a grindy meta progression platformer and others copying this because its trivially easy to make. It is literally called that because they wanted to put rogue in the name of the game. its pretty much used for run based games now.

roguelikes are a genre, roguelite is effectively saying its a run based game and is describing a specific mechanic. it's like saying a game has rpg elements in it.

>>717229991
you think character action is bad, wait until you hear about search action games

>>717230851
>poe1
>worse version of diablo 2

>poe2
>worse version of diablo 3

its crazy how bad GGG is at making games.

hack n slash has to be the most retarded attempt at a category I've ever seen

if your "genre" includes games as distinct as diablo and devil may cry then it is a completely worthless descriptor

>>717230942
>search action games
Hide and Seek Chads, we're eating good.

>>717230052

What >>717230431 and >>717230939 said is correct. But you should also realize that everyone just uses the term roguelike for roguelites now, because they're much more huge than true roguelikes which are extremely obscure in comparison. So the term basically expanded its meaning and now only a select few care if something is a roguelike or a roguelite

>>717231073
>if your "genre" includes games as distinct as diablo and devil may cry then it is a completely worthless descriptor
neither of those are hacks and slashes though.

Souls likes are ARPGs not hack n slash games.

>>717230690
One of the weirdest interactions I've had here. Thank you.

>>717230942
That's just what the Japanese call Metroidvania.
We should be calling them something else too.
Something like "Exploration Platformer" or "Exploraformer"
Would be a genre tag that lets people know what the games about without having prior knowledge of the current genre naming games.
Kinda like how Doom Clone became FPS
But I don't think it's going to happen.

>>717225810 (OP)
i hate these new basedjaks theyre so sauceless

THERE ARE ONLY 4 GENRES

GOTTA GO FAST
DRESS UP
GACHA
MULTIPLAYER

>>717231179
Devil may cry is a hack and slash. "Character action games" are a subset of hack and slash.

>>717225810 (OP)
"Erm, actually it's a custard-like neo-traditional top-down hack 'n fap with skill trees you genre-blind midwit."
Also, I can define immersive sims: First person shooters with open-ended level design where you can pick up and throw physics objects.

>>717231246
a branch is not its trunk. that's just reductionism.

>>717231073
> Hack n Slash: Character Action Game.
> Action RPG: Any Diabloclone/like.
> Soulslike: Anything that is released post-Fromslopware getting popular that uses its gameplay loop and i-frame based gameplay.
> NOO YOU CAN'T JUST CALL IT i-frame based gameplay when you can use spells and summons...
You didn't beat the game.
>>717231189
No.

>>717231210
>that .webm

>>717231217
I like search action as a name better too, it just sounds wacky

>>717231241
Wrong, Dress Up is Point and Click game, Gacha is a Menu game. MMO is a point and click game, Gotta Go Fast is usually an Action game.

>>717231303
Diablo and its awful ilk are not "action" anything.

>>717231303
this is also worthless categorization

>>717231217
The main deciding factor for a genre name is simply whether it sounds nice. Metroidvania sounds better than "exploration platformer" or "metroidlike" so it stuck

>>717231413
action as opposed to turn-based.
diablo was originally going to be turn based until they made it action.

>>717230684
No, books genres are defined by what literary elements are used in them, which are objective facts.
Sci-fi is a subgenre of speculative fiction, specifically because its a type of speculative fiction that is about technology.
This is what I saying reasonable people describe music by, objective elements present in multiple works you can clearly observe and delineate.

Trying to describe music by how it sounds is using irrelevant elements like the page count and saying it must be fantasy because its twice as long as most other novels. It must be crime fiction because it glorifies criminals.
Common but unrelated elements to the purpose of a genre do not define it. Most action games have rpg elements in them in the current day, does that mean action games require rpg elements? obviously not, its just a common design trend to support the genre and add engagement to it, not a requirement of it nor is it relevant when describing it.
if you describe music any different than any other work compares its genres its because you are stupid and dislike the things you like being labeled and shown how similar they are to other things which a lot of people very into music get very upset about for some reason.

>>717230401
>Stellar Blade isn't a soulslike, it's a hack n' slash.
No it is more like a souls like than a hack n' slash. It is a weird mix of souls like games and Nier Automata. I just finished it a few days ago and I can't believe people call it a hack n' slash.
>no juggles
>bonfires
>health flask
>you always fight on the defensive waiting for enemies to attack so you can parry or dodge roll
>you can't cancel out of a lot your moves
>no ranking for fights
>the gun is situational rather than something you use actively in combat with limited ammo
>ARPG elements like customizable parts.
>combos are short and can't be extended without using meter moves
>It is about 30-40 hours long give or take with side quests

If anyone compares it to DMC, Ninja Gaiden, or even Bayonetta it is because they have never played one those games. It is a half assed souls like like jedi fallen order was souls like mixed with western movie game elements.

>>717228791
i noticed theres a new influx of jaks based off the cobson/gapejak, i saw 3 different ones today and they all have a different artstyle but somehow share a resemblance. kinda weird

>>717231318
It is not okay to be gay.

>>717225810 (OP)
>getting mad about doom clone
nobody has used doom clone as a generic fps descriptor for 25 years. 99/100 it's used to describe fps that feature the flat boxy bsp look, I.E. completely accurate term.

>>717231210
No worries anon. Who's that btw

>>717231558
the people saying retarded shit about stellar blade never played it because they couldn't afford to buy it and cannot pirate it due to denuvo.
so they just have no clue what they are talking about.

>>717231528
>Trying to describe music by how it sounds is irrelevant

and here we have peak ivory tower retardation. you are completely detached from how people enjoy music and what they are looking for when they are trying to find more music.
you are only correct in a strict academic sense, which is worthless.

I feel that genres are supposed to just be broad categories and people are too focused on trying to narrow down everything into a hyper specific category. You have things like Final Fantasy Tactics and Disgaea and both would be considered strategy RPGs or "SRPGs" despite not really playing the same and having many differences. That's okay though because I hate viewing games as "formulas" so I expect the finer details and nuances of each game to be it's own thing, the genre is just a broad idea of the style of game. I love From's games but I don't view "soulslike" as a genre, it's more of a tag if that makes sense. From's games would fall under "action RPG" and yes, so would Diablo because despite playing very differently, they're both action games with RPG mechanics, it's as simple as that. Sekiro would just be "action" or possibly "action adventure". It doesn't really matter how one views their genres but I know that the "soulslike" label will often mislead people. Like if you play Nioh and expect DaS1, you're going to be in for a real surprise. Nioh absolutely takes a lot of influences from things like DaS and DeS but it's also heavily rooted in traditional action games which makes sense considering the dev. It's also mission based and uses the Diablo loot system which is entirely different from what From uses. So it's similar yet different. It's an action RPG, that's the broad category I'd put it under but I guess "soulslike" is somewhat of an appropriate tag.

>>717229696
qrd? I migrated to KF and atemoe for a bit when that happened but I don't remember that part...

>>717227301
That's what memes do, and how we buried atheism. I don't know how old you are, but atheism used to be way bigger online, and it got gayer and gayer until we made the fedora meme and shamed the fags into the ground. All memes are a gaslighting psyop. You can't stop it. Honestly this era is so fucking retarded because normal people (IE us) stopped taking the abuse and fought back. We went from a time of relative peace to all out war. Want to stop? This won't stop until we're all dead.

>>717231528
yeah, sound is completely irrelevant to music as a medium

>>717227713
Everyone calls them that but it's important to define them as isometric.

>>717231558
>It is a half assed souls like like jedi fallen order was souls like mixed with western movie game elements.
So not soulslikes?

>>717225810 (OP)
This unironically looks exactly like me, kinda freaked me out a bit.

>>717229991
>>717230235
Hack n' Slash is already taken by diablo clones, Character action sounds stupid, spectacle fighter sounds like a multiplayer fighting game, and just action game is too broad. They should be called 3d beat 'em ups.

>>717231630
>you don't wanna fuck anything that movies no matter how rancid it is?
>that means you're gay
you know what, man. maybe I am gay in that case.

>>717231236
that's a jak-like though

>>717231528
shit nigger what are you doing
first of all: imagine going against the basic human experience of feeling various things when being engaged with a piece of music, what over-intellectualized wank
secondly: genres of written word are not defined by literary devices used, are you a fucking middle schooler to think searching for similes is what constitutes analysis?

>a lot of people very into music get very upset about
yeah it's much more reasonable to abide by rules set by people with zero engagement in the art medium

>>717231745
infinitychan had a bunch of threads on their /v/ where receipts were dumped, they're probably still up.

>>717231929
Character Action Game is already recognized by everyone that's not under 25 years old thoughbeit or suffering issues from being senile.

>>717231893
Like Jedi Survivor for example has actually functioning platforming segments like wall running, vaulting and ziplines, meanwhile Elden Ring can barely make jumping work. The main character still has great difficulty trying to navigate through rafters and ledges.

>>717231983
It's a poor jakclone

>>717231824
>I don't know how old you are, but atheism used to be way bigger online
I was on /b/ before this website got taken over by Christian larpers. It's always been kind of funny to me that atheism becoming reddit lead to so many souls being saved but I wish people would shut the fuck up about it on here.

>>717232035
I'm 32 and I literally have never seen anyone use that term to describe DMC and Bayo. CAGs only started popping up here on /v/ en masse in recent years. Old /v/ always called them fondly as cuhrayzee games.

>>717232061
Alleged "jakiller"

>”it’s a metroidvania!”
>game has elements of crash bandicoot and DKC2 for the SNESS, but because you are on a linear stage and use a weapon, they don’t consider it a platformer
Are gamers the most fluoridated race?

>>717231694
no one finds music by getting recommended ultra specific sound based genres.
genres are broad categorizations and not meant to be sufficient on their own to let you know if you will or will not like something.
Just because you like RPGs does that mean you should like every RPG?
Just because you like fantasy does that mean you will like every fantasy book?
its a retarded approach to it that no one actually takes.


Also its just completely false that people find music through genres, go talk to some actual people in the world and realize that anyone who isn't obsessed with music and makes it their life finds songs they like by literally hearing them deciding they like it and could not name more than 5 genres. To most people "pop" is the main genre of music, literally meaning popular music with no definition beyond it being popular.


No, two small groups of people consisting of less than a dozen people total doesn't make a genre. No one cares about your hyper specific music "genres" that X band started doing by having a minorly different sound that you cannot describe or quantify.
Could you imagine describing movies this way? by the type of scenes that are in them, calling it a jump scare, fight scene, car chase hybrid instead of saying its a thriller or something, its an absurd way to categorize anything that is only accepted by obsessed music weirdos because no normal every day people engage with music genres at all and find music solely through hearing it and then liking it, so have no exposure these absurdities and as such these schizos are left to fester.

>>717231893
It steals enough elements from souls games to justify the label. Maybe one day we will have a better label than "soulslike" but for now any action rgp with bonfires, health flasks, and dodge rolling is going to get called a soulslike because the game design is lifting a lot from souls games.

>>717232035
no it isn't. The word "character" adds no clarity to what kind if game you are talking about.

>>717232065
That's not happening, buddy. Too many fags. Don't you ever forget what lead us here. It wasn't 4channers choosing to be wound up overly-serious fags about things. moots gay ass himself allowed Naruto on /a/ as a humiliation ritual, and had all his mods completely eradicate board culture in 2013 leading directly to irreparable dissatisfaction which culminated in his DISGRACEFUL EXIT. Gamergate was foisted upon us. We just wanted to play games.

>>717232147
>and I literally have never seen anyone use that term to describe
this would eliminate the vast majority of game discussion on the internet. pointless to bring up.

>>717232289
why would naruto not be allowed on /a/?
its literally a manga an anime, its popularity doesn't mean it isn't one.

>>717229957
what's the difference between a vore-like and a vore-lite?

>>717232289
Can't disagree but I still just want to play games. Hard to unshit the boards though by now.

>this thread
heckin autism batman!!!

it's not that complicated, game genres are like every other kind of classification, you have general genres that are too low resolution to be useful (stuff like "shooters") and then you have subgenres that allow you to narrow definitions down (fps, tps, rail shooter, bullet hell, twin stick, shooting gallery etc)

think of it like taxonomy in biology: you've got order, family, genus, species, and everytime you get down a rank it becomes more precise and more exclusive

>>717232276
I mean if you refer to the combat sure but the everything else is also very typical of standard AAA adventure games like horizon, ghost of tsushima and god of war. The over the shoulder cam perspective especially.

>>717232393
Like he mentioned, board culture. Same reason why /v/ used to hate capeshit unless it was raimi's spiderman or nolan's batman.

>>717232464
>heckin autism batman!!!
I know we're all pretending to be retarded in here but pump the brakes a bit

>>717232241
>it hurt itself in its confusion
i am not exactly sure how shadowboxing "ultra specific sound based genres" goes against "genres are for music that sounds like other music"
don't objective metrics create much more strict boundaries and lead to pointless over-specialization?

>>717232393
You don't get it. Before 09 /a/ was ruthlessly dominated by a cabal of seasoned 2hu aficionados with skill in programming. And this was accepted and encouraged for many years (4, but that was an aeon in early Internet terms, and the entirety of 4chan's existence) solely because it drove away normalfags. That naruto copypasta is a perfect erudition of what a "normalfag" was to early 4channers, and why board culture was set up to gatekeep.

>>717232241
quick, describe what metal music is without talking about sound

>>717225810 (OP)
anyone who thinks every new design philosophy should result into a new genre is retarded.

>>717232603
concession, dilation AND sneedation accepted!!!! :D

>>717232464
>taxonomy in biology
Wait 'til you find out it's a pretty wack classification itself, only marginally more coherent due to the fact that you can dissect animals and compare the insides.

>>717232276
Character Action Game usually focuses on a predefined character vs an RPG where you create and customize your character.

>>717232468
>horizon, ghost of tsushima
Asscreed style open world games that wouldn't compare them to stellar blade at all, maybe jedi fallen order though. I'd say Stellar blade is Nier + Souls. It is hard to nail down what a soulslike should be because almost everyone and their dog is ripping it off. Even bungie was trying to compare themselves to dark souls when destiny first came out. Soon souls elements will be so played out you will hear people groan like they do when they see an Asscreed style open world game. I remember when Asscreed was universally loved and people used linear like a pejorative. Nothing lasts forever.

>god of war
That is kind of its own thing that may get a sub genre if it gets enough knockoffs like evil west.

>>717232641
>I have no argument
you are the other tried to compare how other media defines genres to try to illustrate how absurd my point was.
Except every other pieces of media defines its genres like I am saying, as evidenced by this thread and people literally discussing the exact things that make up different genres.

So either address the points made or stfu because you are very obviously some music obsessed weirdo in the cult of retarded overly specific music genres.

>>717225810 (OP)
I think a game is an immersive sim when it has a certain combination of small systems and mechanics that create the veneer of a living character in a living world.

Not all immersive sims are realized in the same way, there isn't a codified list of features that make an immersive sim, it's simply an emergent property from the overlap of several systems interacting and building on each other in ways unique to the game and levels in question.

Immersive sims are often games with open ended levels and open ended objectives, but I don't think that's necessarily a core part of immersive sim, it's just that the game design of creating open ended level and objectives also naturally leads to adding many of the features that can coalesce into an immersive sim experience.

Immersive sim is a very hard thing to pin down, and honestly I don't know if I'd really call it a genre, but it's certainly a thing that exists in some games and I don't blame people for liking it.

>>717225810 (OP)
rollslop
parryslop
zanzibartcringe

>>717232852
more like they focus on the character itself and everything else is on backburner. story? who gives a shit. put all the budget on combat design.

>>717232684
>muh board culture
if you want to a board about touhou and programming then you should go to a place about that, not specifically about anime.
this isn't some invite only secret image board run by its community, its publicly accessible with what is acceptable is determined by the owners and those made moderators.

>>717232787
yeah yeah everything is arbitrary sis!!:

ywnbaw btw

Did anyone actually try to come up with a system that would classify games by a bunch of characteristics and just give them all some convoluted code number? Like this https://guides.library.harvard.edu/folk_and_myth/indices ?

>>717232852
"action" game is way too broad and it includes shooters, zelda style games, and a bunch of other shit. I like 3d beat 'em up because it implies combos, style ranks, and juggles. It also sounds more arcadey than character action does. "Character" could imply you are creating the character. It just isn't very clear unless you have heard the term before.

>>717233036
???
lots of words do not a point make, certainly not when your "objective elements present in multiple works you can clearly observe and delineate" are completely divorced from visceral human experience
still not sure why you decided to bring up gnome music or some shit

>how other media defines genres to try to illustrate how absurd my point was
i think i succeeded considering there was no reply to the earlier post
say, what are the literary devices that define the detective mystery genre? ya know, those objective quantifiable metrics you are so fond of

>Role playing game
>Its not about role playing
This is why god doesn't talk to us anymore.

I only recently realized genre is seen as negative term in writing, like the idea of something being genre fiction is pulpy I guess because it conforms to certain structures and meet certain expectations. I don't really hear that about music though, music seems to just be endlessly divided up among countless genres.
I don't think you should sweat too much about game genres, it's not really important and every medium has their own take on them.

>>717225810 (OP)
if a category of game is comprised almost entirely of iterations on a narrow formula it makes sense to just designate it with a unique term that cannot be confused instead of trying to be broadly descriptive.
>exploration platformer
if you are playing a metroidvania this isn't actually an honest term. you are not playing a platformer imbued with the sense exploration, that was not of the developer's intent when creating the game, you are playing something narrowly referential.

>Checkpoints that keep your character and quest state but reset non-unique enemies
Thats it.

>>717233708
> I frame souls-dodge rolls.

>>717233428
>I like 3d beat 'em up
I legitimately have no idea why people don't call them that

it's obvious the dmcs and bayos and ninja gaidens are just evolutions of the classic brawlers of the arcade era like final fight, streets of rage, guardian heroes etc, no need to come up with these retarded new classifications

>>717225810 (OP)

>>717233259
>this isn't some invite only secret image board run by its community, its publicly accessible with what is acceptable is determined by the owners and those made moderators.

>>717232852
Not a genre you dumb fucking zoomer, kys. Every fucking relevant game designer has always said ACTION. NONE of them said character action, KYS.

>>717233629
Writers who laud literature that isn't "genre" fiction are wrong. Most literature falls into genres that aren't popular anymore so we don't use the term anymore. They will also cope and seethe before admitting books like 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 are dystopia science fiction because that would place them next to shit like The Hunger Games.

>>717233428
The problem with "3d beat em up" is that every element that you've named comes from DMC and not something like final fight. If we need to come up with a new term to describe "Games like DMC" I think we should focus on the style aspect. Like a slash n dash or something

>>717234048
Keep seething... Character Action Game, they often called them Hack and Slash as well as Spectacle Fighters... Now you are finished by your definition, fucking zoomer.

did you know that japanese devs call platformers action games? really make u think

>>717233889
because those games have permanent weapons instead of being brawlers. cant really call a game beat em up if the main guy wields a sword. probably why they were called hack n slash by some, it's like a sword version of beat em up.

>>717233576
>why you decided to bring up gnome music or some shit
who brought that up?

>what are the literary devices that define the detective mystery genre
The overall goal of mystery genre is that there is some key mystery to unravel and be solved at the end, be it a crime, some sort of strange event, or other such mystery, with requisite elements being that information is revealed to the reader alongside the characters, solutions are presented at the end.
A detective mystery is one specifically about crimes, specifically following a detective or detectives, focused on large scale or serious crimes (murder, large theft, etc), and focus on the individual detective and how they solve the crime rather than necessarily on how the crime was done, the culprit and how they are brought to justice which is generally irrelevant or at most a minor focus.

Feel free to google any genre for anything outside of music and get specific elements of it pointed out to you that define it, compare that to looking up a music genre and you get information about songs and artists who are in that genre rather than what that genre actually is.

>>717234184
> Menu Games
> Point & Click Games.
> Action Games.
That simple dummy.

>>717234184
they also call visual novels "adventure games"
and tactical rpgs "simulation rpgs"
and they call soulslikes "fromge" as in from software game

>>717233982
Someone should make that for people who've been here since 2012 or earlier

>>717234451
"Text Adventure" games. It makes sense, that's basically their origin.

>>717234451
>they also call visual novels "adventure games"
that makes sense though

things like ace attorney or zero escape are very similar to old school adventure games from lucasarts and the likes

>>717234451
and they call cartoons "anime" and japan "nihon"

>>717234329
I'd say you keeping your weapons is the only big difference though. People have no problem calling Yakuza games 3d beat em' ups.

>>717234083
Final fight does have combos, points that go to a score, and juggles they are just simpler than something like DMC that has a lot more moves. It isn't a perfect name but it is a lot better than "Character action".

>>717233629
a "genre book" or "genre film" is derogatory not because it cleanly fits into an established genre but its a critique saying that the author, writers, directors, etc (ie whoever made this) wasn't making their own unique work with a story to tell that happened to be a certain genre but specifically set out to create a work in that genre and went out of their way to be in that genre.
idk if you have ever done some creative work like that, but usually when you write you don't go and say you want to write a specific story, you generally have an idea in your head about something, and while it might fit into a very broad genre (like fantasy, sci-fi, crime, romance, etc) its unlikely to cleanly fit into more specific subgenres as you are not going out of your way to write that rather than what is needed for the story. usually you can tell this is the case where you get sub plots and side characters who get introduced for seemingly no reason apart from that just being a common thing to have one that is a certain way being common in that genre rather than serving the greater story.
its like making a game and sure it makes sense to go for a broader genre but apart of making a game is to figure out what is fun in what you have made and lean into it, what works and what doesn't. it's why some things can feel samey and weird like the person just copied other peoples ideas rather than having their own. You can see a lot of indie games like this.

>>717234662
>things like ace attorney or zero escape are very similar to old school adventure games from lucasarts and the likes
I wouldn't say very similar.

>>717234761
Nippon actually for Japan as a country and Nihon is the language as in Nihongo same with "Japanese" in sentences like I'm Japanese: Watashi ha Nihonjin desu.

>>717228641
This only bothers me if it's literally just a metroid clone and doesn't even have RPG elements, making the -vania part redundant.

>>717234329
beat em up classics like golden axe, shadow over mystara, knights of the round, guardian heroes etc all had permanent weapon wielding characters

>>717225810 (OP)
>Wtf is "Souls Like"?
Shit games.

Anyone who enjoy that gay fucking genre should do the world a favour and kill themselves.

>>717234057
yeah critics describing things as literary vs genre is the most absurd shit in the world and basically most people who read books don't even engage with these kind of wackjobs, much like music schizos.

for anyone curious, the definition is that literary are works that are written solely for their artistic merit and because the author had a story to tell while genre fiction is titles that are intended to be written for others to read and appeal to readers so they can sell it.
which is just plainly absurd and why no one gives a shit what book critics say.

>>717234883
>about to write nippon
>think "no wait maybe it be more accurate to say nihon, lemme google it real quick, wouldn't want to look like a fucking idiot on my 4channel post"
>entire first page of results is "they're interchangeable :)"
>change nippon to nihon
>look like a fucking idiot

>>717235149
They aren't interchangeable, google is lying to you as its jeets/changs telling how it is. You will never hear the country called "Nihon" "Nippon-Kuni" is how it was called back in Showa etc. lyrics.

>>717235280
I don't not believe you

>>717235309
Listen to imperial marchers, that's what they say in them.

>>717235106
what would they say if I wrote genre fiction not to sell it but as a personal commentary on genre fiction?

>>717235339
marches.* Anyway, that's just how it is with Japanese. Anyway, I have 100% never heard Nihon being used directly about Japan as a country but things related to Japanese culture or people. Nippon is the country as a state.

>>717234883
nah it has to do with the grammar rules. you can compound 日本 either as nihon or nippon, depending on if you read the first character as ni or nichi.

>>717234350
>who brought that up?
you keep pretending that everybody who argues with you is a proponent of some hyper-specific music genre
rather than somebody who thinks focusing on time signatures is stupid

>the description
you are describing plot beats and story conventions, rather than more concrete "literary devices", but instead vague tropes that tend to be played with, even in such formulaic and established genre as mystery
then again, you did start the whole literature bit with "literary elements" so maybe you didn't even mean devices in the first place but i do suggest looking up what that means

>you get information about songs and artists (...) rather than what that genre actually is
man i dunno what you are even talking about, do you just see comparasions and historical notes, and then immediately go into a blind rage, ignoring more concrete comments? or are instruments too vague, and you need a fucking objective bpm range

>>717235438
Yes but in technical context terms and correct usage, it isn't used that way its implied by those. If you write "Nipponkuni" in Kanji it will always be nippon so people understand Nippon as the one defining the country and government related things.

>>717235417
it would pretty much be determined by if you actually release it as a book for people to buy or enter it into a literary writing competition and if it wins/does well release it as a book.
this is why its absurd, its basically trying to justify their own positions by excluding most works from needing to be considered because they are not literary as they were not written solely for competition.

Yeah, that's right, despite them claiming that literary work is works written solely for the author and to tell a story rather than for sale, its required for them to entered into writing competitions and this is seen as a fine since how else would people know about your writing?
what do you mean that writing solely for competitions and trying to win is exactly the same thing as writing for a public audience that involves selling a book? they are obviously nothing alike.

they are just retarded and its why you don't even know a single writing critic and every author just dismisses them as retarded.

>>717235635
>If you write "Nipponkuni" in Kanji it will always be nippon
nihonkoku works just fine

>>717235807
> Obscure reading definition nobody after Showa-Era used.
lol. Trying so hard to not look retarded, c'mon now.

>>717229696
>>717232010
What the fuck??
There's no way the new internet was tailor-made by the american government. I'm not trying to be ironic, that's just impossible...

>>717228791
if I remember right it was one guy that was commissioning them by the boatloads until the artist just went nope, not doing them again.

>>717236490
CIA/NSA tag-teaming with Air Force it seems its possible.

>>717236613
But with fucking wojaks? What if they were used in a completely different way than they intended? Or what if they didn't catch on? You can't expect to spread hate and political control through a fucking caricature

>>717236771
They were probably part of disruptive tactics to make the websites they didn't like unusable.

>>717225887
Me

>>717236827
I see this happen in threads

>>717225810 (OP)
That's the whole point of a genre. Define jazz first

>>717236771
Divide and conquer

>>717229754
I mean you just described Elden Ring but sure

>>717225810 (OP)
I look like and say this.

>>717225810 (OP)
An ARPG that focuses on the use of items, buffs/debuffs, parrying or dodge in combat, and set in a hyperrealistic historical or mythological settings.

>>717225810 (OP)
It's an issue with the medium not the genres.
Videogames evolved over time and what it was possible for a videogame to be and do evolved with it.
That's why you have extremely vague genre names where the game is supposed to invoke a feeling of that genre when in practice it's implementation is nothing farther from the truth.
Take RPG for example, a stolen term from tabletop RPGs it's such a shit genre name but it stuck because D&D was popular in the 1980s and therefore marketing had it.

>there's a certain amount of ambiguity in a definition therefore the definition is entirely meaningless
this is unironically how you end up with trannies btw
>inb4 le obsessed!!

>>717239203
You are obsessed, because you mentioned it. I will not be engaging in that rhetoric further.

That said, RPG is a shit genre name because it's supposed to invoke elements of a tabletop RPG but even those don't have rigid structures and shit like GURPS is very simple and easy for everybody to play.

An adventure game as a videogame genre makes sense. You just go on an adventure. Adventure is also a vague word but it has less implications on system structures as say something like RPG.

Unicorn overlord being an autobattler is the correct take. There is one retard here who spergs over it and instead resorting to call Fire Emblem is actually an autobattler just because he thinks animation being played automatically makes it an autobattle.

>>717225810 (OP)
this meme was made by someoen that lost a debate against a dimwit over trying to define a genre

>>717239573
>An adventure game as a videogame genre makes sense
Too bad the genre historically means "narrative driven + puzzle solving".

>>717225887
Everyone on reddit and 4chan

>>717225810 (OP)
>it's an fps
>it's a hack n slash
Oh, so sub genres just aren't allowed to exist?

>>717225810 (OP)
>fps
Action game
>hack n slash
Action game

Sub-genres are effectively meaningless marketing terms for casuals who play garbage games for the "vibe". You will never truly get vidya until you pull the wool from your eyes and widen your scope of vision. Things like "boomer shooter" are employed to enable cognitive dissonance and avoid unfavorable comparisons.

>>717240847
So an adventure.
Got it. You convinently left out all the monsters, bad guy killing, and trap avoidance though.

>>717241264
No, that's not what adventure games necessarily are. If you think that's the case you don't knowbwhat you are talking about. Fucking ace attorney is an even an "adventure" game

>>717241247
FPS has a literal definition anon.
First person, as in the camera has to be locked to the first person POV, and you shoot guns.

That's literally it. It's a game play genre.

>>717241247
>Sub-genres are effectively meaningless marketing terms
Brainlet take. There are definitely sub genres I like more than others. What's wrong with categorizing similar things I like together?

>>717241357
>engage in hazardous and exciting activity, especially the exploration of unknown territory.
If a game does any of this it's an adventure game.

>>717241364
"first person" and "shooter" are mechanical design elements. just like "black and white" is not a movie genre.

>>717241546
>Mechanical elements
Wait till anon hears what the spaghetti western genre is

>>717241460
Nigger what are you talking about. That is not what an adventure game is. I hate the fucking term, but historically adventure games were anything from mystery games, text adventures, to point and click puzzle solvers. Fucking visual novels came out of adventure games even.

>>717241670
The literal definition of the word adventure retard. If it fits those themes it's an adventure game.

I'm not really sure how else to tell you that.

>>717241639
making first person shooters and third person shooters separate genres is like saying black and white thriller and color thriller are two separate genres.

Mass effect and bloodborne are both ARPGs. But I would love more classic Mass Effects-likes if we are going to be that way.

>>717229106
Ok, name two guys

>>717241765
The gunplay changes entire from first to third person is the reason why. It's a game play choice.

>>717241763
i hope the (you)s are worth it

>>717241763
Oh, so you are a retard who's never actually known what an adventure game even is. This is the EXACT problem I'm pointing out. Historically, adventure games DO NOT meet the definition of an "adventure." It's why I hate the genre name so much. My whole point is that the actual genre does line up with the definition of the word. You clearly have 0 clue what the history of the adventure video game genre even is. You sound more like you are describing action adventure, which is frustratingly NOT the combination of the "action" and "adventuure" genres.

>>717242004
>My whole point is that the actual genre does line up with the definition of the word
*doesn't dammit

>>717242004
The world doesn't stop progressing. What was an adventure game in 1996 before 3D became popular doesn't define the genre going forward.

It's always first and foremost been about invoking a feeling.

>>717225810 (OP)
Genres are a meme. What is the difference between action, adventure and action/adventure games?

>>717225887
this entire fucking board

>>717242594
Action has an emphasis on the gameplay and animated movements in the gameplay
Adventure games have an emphasis on exploring new areas that have hazards and could be hostile in nature.

Action adventure does both.

>>717242594
>action
you kill enemies by attacking them. eg super mario bros
>adventure
you interact with the environment to solve puzzles eg maniac mansion
>action/adventure
combination of both eg alone in the dark

>>717242337
>What was an adventure game in 1996 before 3D became popular doesn't define the genre going forward.
I wish that was true, but it is simply not.
Do a quick search for "what is an adventure game" and you'll see tons of places describing it as narrative first, with elements of exploration and/or puzzle solving secondary. I was once like you because I desperately wanted adventure to mean "games where you go on an adventure" but reality is not so kind.

>>717225887
>717225887
reddit has a whole site thread whatever that faggot shit called page? of soulslike and fucking nioh is there fucking retards

There is only 3 genres
Control character in third person
Control character in first person
Everything else.

>>717242750
Those games likely all involve adventures and you just get pissed off because of the narrative.

>>717226607
I would personally put arkham asylum in it's own category.

>>717242681
>Adventure games have an emphasis on exploring new areas that have hazards and could be hostile in nature.
Wrong again retard. Adventure games have an emphasis on narrative. How can you says games like ace attorny and danganronpa are exploration focused games? And yes, those are considered adventure games, look it up.

>>717242798
Younclearly don't even play adventure games. Stop acting like an expert on somethinng you are clearly not an expert in.

>>717229541
I call zelda and games like it oscar bait

>>717242842
>>717242904
Danganronpa is considered an adventure game due to its core gameplay mechanics, which heavily rely on exploration, investigation, and puzzle-solving, similar to traditional adventure games like Ace Attorney. Players navigate environments, interact with objects and characters, gather evidence, and participate in class trials to deduce the culprit behind a murder.

>>717242962
Nigger if that's all it takes for a game to be and adventure, than 95% of video games are an adventure

>>717242962
Show me a court scene in ace attorney and tell me about all the great environments being explored. Core gameplay mechanic my ass

>>717243153
you explore the crime scenes.

>>717225810 (OP)
Game that not revolves around:
>spam iframes x5, attack x1,repeat
ANY game that add something, viable mechanic, ANYTHING, in my eyes is not souls like, and it's better than most souls games fromsoft poduced.
On the other hand, any fromsoft game is filled with additional mechanics, but "hardcore gamers" refuse and despite using it.

>>717243231
Yeah, and I also "explore" map in a linear 2d platformer, but no one calls that an adventure game

>>717225810 (OP)
If you think about it, every game is just some spinoff of chess.
Or actually, since many games have RNG in them, every game is a spinoff of sennet. Chess is just sennet with the RNG removed.

>>717243310
>Yeah, and I also "explore" map in a linear 2d platformer
but it's not a central game mechanic there. we're talking about design philosophy. not your personal experiences. if genres were defined by individual experiences then everything would be a genre.

>>717243447
It's just as fucking "central" as the exploration in ace attorny. Jesus, you have got to bbe trolling at this point. Next your going to tell me the telltale walking dead games are exploration focused because you sometimes walk around when talking from one person to the next.

It's when a game is hard.

>>717230268
So Elden Ring isn't a soulslike?

>>717243505
>it's just as fucking "central" as the exploration in ace attorny.
but it's not. you cant proceed in the game unless you interact with all the clues and solve all the puzzles. I dont care what your personal definition of exploration/adventure is.

>>717243564
>at least 2

>>717241364
>FPS has a literal definition anon.
Yeah, an action game. Don't pretend like someone who found the physical challenge of aiming and shooting appealing wouldn't find precision platforming appealing. These are entirely arbitrary lines drawn for nitwits and casuals.

>>717226715
Early FPS games were indeed Doom clones until they diverged into something else and became Halo clones or CoD clones. There are now indies releasing new nostalgic Doom clones. Im-sims do not have many small game systems and are in fact simply clones of older games. Dishonored is a Thief clone, Prey is a Bioshock clone.

>>717243645
That's just puzzle solving though. Is baba Is You an adventure game because you walking around an environment solving puzzles? These aren't just my definitions. These are the ones used by most people. You're just desperate to cling on to your idea of what an adventure game is without being willing to admit you actually have no idea.

>>717242825
It's a Bamham.

>>717241459
There are two types of people
>I enjoy the physical challenge presented by shooting
Action game
>whooooaaa dude i totally vibe with shooting guns, FPS games are literally me *hits bong* *buys the 17th iteration of cawadoody*
FPS

>>717243443
Sennet has some nice RNG manip

>>717243851
...huh?

>>717225810 (OP)
I like this s.oyjack

>>717243949
Sub-genres are descriptors which distract people from the real reason they enjoy video games. Instead of identifying what's stimulating about them and being honest with ourselves, people tack on meaningless tags.

Doom is an action game. Quake is a multiplayer action game. Starcraft is multiplayer strategy game. Counterstrike is a multiplayer action strategy game.

There actually isn't that many ways for a player to interact with a game. Its pretty much just action (physical challenge, motor skills and hand-eye coordination) and strategy. (planning and problem solving) Even early strategy and puzzles games were originally referred to as "adventure games" and I feel that descriptor has become totally distorted and redundant. Why wouldn't someone who enjoys city builders be better off looking at factory builders or wargames, as the core features of those games are similarly logistics management but far more engaging? The meaningless subgenre just led them away from this conclusion. We should be more honest with ourselves so we can better articulate why we like things and draw stronger comparisons. From here we can look at different forms of mastery, with multiplayer or single player, deterministic versus random game design, etc. Its all very simple.

When you have too many categorizations people lose grasp of the plot and try to aimlessly define themselves in ways that stunt their growth and narrow their viewpoints.

>>717244581
This is fucking bullshit because there are some types of action games I love and some that I hate. If this is how simple your brain is, then you are simply just a retard, it's that simple.

>>717244581
I dislike almost all factory builders but like almost all city builders.

>>717225810 (OP)
Action RPG with mid level checkpoints that serve as sanctuary but come at the cost of respawning enemies. Typically has a harsh penalty for dying if you are holding a lot of currency and can't collect it before dying again. Very distinctive boss style.

>>717244896
But elden Ring is a soulslike

>>717244581
>my poor bwain can't handle all these subcategories! The horror!
Have another (you) and be gone

>>717244820
>This is fucking bullshit because there are some types of action games I love and some that I hate
That's because you suck ass at games. I find Counterstrike appealing for the same exact reason I find fighting games appealing, its even designed similarly right down to the short rounds, and the emphasis on labbing and study, the primary difference being the presence of tactical cooperation. If you don't like a "sub-genre" then its simply because either
1) Something is wrong on your end (likely)
or
2) There is simply no game in that genre that has action gameplay as satisfying as other genres

Action games all have similar appeal. Calling DMC a "character action game" is wrong because every other game cloned from it is complete ass and it would be more productive to compare those games to action games as a whole rather than squabbling in a tiny echo chamber.

Like look at that patriciantv guy that does 10 hour long videos on elder scrolls games. He doesn't know they're all shit because he only compared them to other elder scrolls games, but has made a career out of spreading ignorance.

>>717244853
And why is that? Be honest with yourself and you'll see the real reason why. (city builders are extremely casual)

>>717245192
Cities, and their development have an anthropological feeling that intrinsically dates back to the start of human civilization in of itself. There are more interesting themes and topics to explore, and time periods in itself to pick.
Factory building tends to just be logistical planning and conveyer belt placing, and do to the recency of mass industrialization and robotics, there is far less diversity in what a factory game can be.
Tropico for example isn't cities skyline and they both scratch different itches.

>>717245489
>Cities, and their development have an anthropological feeling that intrinsically dates back to the start of human civilization in of itself. There are more interesting themes and topics to explore, and time periods in itself to pick.
Firstly, none of this is related to gameplay. Secondly, wargames cover more historical and fictional periods and they do so far more accurately in a way that is genuinely educational, while still having a focus of logistics management and growth. This is exactly the cognitive dissonance I'm referring too. You're using the sub-genre as a shield to not confront the actual meat of the game, the gameplay, the part that really matters, because you are lost in the sauce. You play city builders because they are easy, and they put atmosphere over gameplay, and once you realize this perhaps you'll realize you shouldn't be here at all.

>>717243808
>Is baba Is You an adventure game because you walking around an environment solving puzzles?
it isn't because it is structured in isolated stages where only your knowledge carries over. it's a puzzle game.

>>717231824
>because normal people (IE us)
Fuck you retard. I am not normal.
And no, I don't mean that in a positive way.

>>717245145
Did you know that not everyone has the same one note mental capacity as you?most people are far more complex and have multiple different qualities they look for in a game. Shocking, I know.

>>717241264
that's action adventure, not pure adventure

>>717245675
>Nothing on this is related to just gameplay
Games aren't strictly just gameplay you retarded autist, so the reasons why someone might buy a videogame won't relate directly to gameplay.

That said the gameplay in factory building is just logistical planning. Specifically, the puzzle portion of the game is easy and the real gameplay is for autistic people to spend more time in MS paint drawing new logistical layouts than they do actually in the game.

The same reason I don't really like Factory games would be the same reason I don't like playing Truck Simulators. I am not interested in the niche of their logistics.

Games aren't inherently difficult, not even the ones people retardly harp about being difficult. They're just time sinks of trial and error.

>>717245824
>Did you know that not everyone has the same one note mental capacity as you?
What is the difference between managing commie blocks in city builders, and managing railways and depots in wargames? Its the opposite of one note, you lean on sub-genres because you're afraid of leaving your comfort zone. This board is full of people who found some arbitrary "sub-genre" to settle into and circle jerk in, because its easy and casual.

>>717245967
>Games aren't strictly just gameplay you retarded autist
So you're admitting you don't play games for the gameplay. If a genre doesn't describe gameplay then is it really important? I don't think so.

>>717245783

>>717225810 (OP)
Soulslikes are action RPGs that use following mechanics
>checkpoints that heal/save but respawn enemies
>loss of all experience you didn't invest into levels on death
Everything else is arbitrary, it doesn't even have to be a slasher

>>717225810 (OP)
Soulslike is basicaly an Action RPG with invincibility rolling and checkpoints where you respawn if you die that respawn most non-unique enemies too and a focus on gameplay over story.
It's a pseudo genre.

>>717245967
>Games aren't strictly just gameplay you retarded autist
are movies not for watching?
books not for reading?

if you don't want gameplay out of a game, why was it not a movie, a book, or a radio drama instead.
what specifically about a video game was needed to convey that story if not gameplay?

>>717246163
Hardly a pseudo genre when we can easily define its mechanics. It's a proper subgenre much like cover shooters. You can easily tell if something is a cover shooter based on whether or not you stick to cover and can peak out of it

>>717246116
I play games for entertainment. Consuming a game strictly for it's gameplay as naseum is the same kind of brainrot as the people whove seen the office 60+ times instead of exploring new things.

Tetris has had the best gameplay for decades now, but there's only so much Tetris I can play at a time.

>>717245780
Yeah, and ace attorny investigations are also cut out into separate isolated sections too, just under slightly different names. It's so fucking obvious you lost the plot here like 5 posts ago, but you're desperate clinging to trivial hand wavy definitions of exploration that somehow only conviently apply to certain games just to save face. The truth of the matter is that the dventure game genre requires a heavy focus on the narrative, and you just can't bring yourself to admit it.

>>717246296
>I play games for entertainment.
If you don't care about gameplay then are you really playing them? lol
>Tetris has had the best gameplay for decades now
Tetris is an incredibly flawed game, which has had like 20 different iterations which have attempted to fix it. You just seem like a dumb normalfag that doesn't pay attention to what gets beamed into their skull, honestly.

>>717242825
Arkham's kind of a somewhat more linear Metroidvania.

>>717246265
Okay, every game you play shouldn't utilize audio in any sense unless it's strictly for gameplay.
Soundtracks are worthless for game development and you should only use VFX if it is in direction response to the gameplay.

This anime avatarfag has got to be trolling at this point

>>717225810 (OP)
>ACTION rpg
>it's just a diablo clone
I hate you fags for destroying an entire genre

>>717246398
I feel like if an anime girl punched me, I could just tank it and take no damage whatsoever from it.

>>717246441
You got blown the fuck out.

>>717246398
>Flawed
There is not a singular flawed thing about Tetrises gameplay.
>They've sold it 20 different times
Because it prints money. Not to fix anything.

>>717225810 (OP)
a game built inspired by or in the likeness of the original dark souls
are you retarded?

genre blind gamers exist only because most gamers are mainstream players who only know a handful of titles to compare new titles against

>>717246493
Action RPG and Diablo clone were synonymous until late 00s, zoom.

>>717246542
Arguing in redundant circles and making multi paragraph long posts that no one can stand reading is not "blowing people out." Like goddamn, imagine sucking your own psuedo intellectual dick this hard.

>>717227141
1995-2005 is soul internet, literally the golden age of videogames, technology and the web
2005-2015 is nu internet
2016-2023 is corponet

>>717246413
r u retarded?
is that what anyone said?
the whole point of the medium, what is unique to it, is gameplay, if you are not leveraging gameplay for something then it should not have been a game.

every medium has its own strengths and weaknesses, as well as conventions that make full use of it, for games, this is gameplay.
do you need an explanation of why some things work better in certain mediums? because it sure seems like you don't understand.

>>717246049
>Its the opposite of one note, you lean on sub-genres because you're afraid of leaving your comfort zone
Nigger i've got over 1,000 games I've beaten in a database and they span all kinds of genres. Shut the fuck up you assuming bitch. Having playing a lot of different types of games, I can assure you there are some sub genres I simply like more than others.

>>717242790
third person shooter
first person shooter
everything else person shooter

>>717227141
you only hate basedjaks because you see yourself in them. They're mirrors that reveal your true form

>>717246661
Correction, anything past 2010 is a disingenuous 3rd worlder using broken English getting worked up into a seething boil because you dance words around them as they're unable to defend their point of view so they just spam the same thing every day and naseum.
Anything post 2022 is this but now half of them are automated LLM AIs and dead Internet is real.

>>717227141
>imvu

>>717229606
>diablo is hack n slash
So, soulslike?

>>717246551
>There is not a singular flawed thing about Tetrises gameplay.
Incorrect, 4-widing has made tetris utter garbage at even mid level play and that's just multiplayer, and this is just one issue of many. As of right now, tetris is so bad that's there's literally no reason to get really good at it, as your reward is a totally broken unfun kusoge.

>>717246692
Everything else serves as a vessel for the function of gameplay.
Why would you consume slop in a genre you don't like as a vessel for the gameplay, using a setting you don't like, etc, etc.

The argument is fucking retarded because games are a sum of their whole and there's ten million ways to doctor up a soulslike, I'm not going to enjoy it just because it has the same gameplay template as 50 other games.

Large studios barely take risks in gameplay, it's almost entirely dirrivative now because it has to be marketable as a proven commodity to the people shelling out to make it.

I don't have two dozen hours to play your 90th dirrivative gameplay clone that looks like slop.

>>717246957
God, you remind me of this faggot who clamed that preferences in video games weren't real and the only thing that matters is objective quality. I hate fuckers like you. You kill any sense of individuality in gaming

>>717226715
Diablo clone is a much better term than ARPG. Action Role Playing Game shouldn't describe such a narrow and specific slice of the RPG genre.

>>717246049
>dude systems lmao
anon, this might surprise you, but just because it's called "game theory" doesn't mean it governs videogames

>>717247036
>get proven objectively and inarguably wrong
>flip the board
There's a reason newer unofficial community iterations of tetris have counters to 4-widing. You just blew all that smoke up your ass about something you don't know anything about. Keep your dumb opinions to yourself and don't post again for at least 10 years.

>>717246957
>Incorrect, 4-widing
This weeb makes the biggest complaint of entry level casuals to Tetris and called it a flaw lmfao you should probably just get good at the game. Professionals known for their 4wide ability consistently get wrecked in competitive play so it isn't as OP as you're making it out to be.

>>717227141
It started going downhill way before 2015.

>>717225887
95% of the normalfags that like "roguelikes" or "dungeon crawlers"

>>717247119
I am not the person you responded to. I don't even like tetris. I just hate every goddamn point you're trying to make in this thread.

all ive gotten from this thread is that video games arent real

>>717247150
>get wrecked in competitive play
In tetrio, which has replaced tetris in competitive play. (it has a different combo system)

>>717247024
>I only care games look
that is what you said
you should not be playing video games then, go watch a movie if you only care about visuals.

No one would fault you for finding it unenjoyable to play a game that does an awful job at everything but gameplay, in fact, many people critique that exact situation of many games, that they love the gameplay but everything else is awful.
But to legitimately not care about the gameplay at all and it not be the reason you play a game? yeah, you really should not play video games, even when people joke about a lot of games and their minimal gameplay as well the motivations for playing them, they are still primarily there for the gameplay and the experience it creates.


You said the equivalent of saying you like reading a book in a language you don't read because the font is pretty and paper its printed on is good quality.
absolutely ludicrous.

>>717247283
Never have been

>>717247119
>get proven objectively and inarguably wrong
Good lord, can you just go back to r*ddit you tranny anime loving faggot?

>>717246798
>A jillion jeets
My God...

>>717247283
vidya gaems are our dreams watching other people experience it in real time
Skyrim was real, but not a video game. it really did happen, we just happened to watch him in our dreams

>>717247298
I never stated that. I stated I want the game to be appealing to me, and I'm not going to play a game that visually is neon puke, has no redeeming sound track/non existent or poorly written story just because the "gameplay is heckin good bro" when it's just overrated arcadey shit without a purpose.

There are so many games that I can play, with an insanely deep backlog that I'm not going to waste my time with something that inherently has no appeal to me just for it's "le gameplay".

>>717227109
Its a hack n slash that is souls like

>>717225810 (OP)
souls like is not a genre, it's a descriptor that you can use to filter out results, like lgbtq or female protagonist

It's funny that these gameplay tards will sperg on and on endlessly about how you must be bad at games, but if you tell them that VR games have the widest depth of skill expression in the entire medium, they'll sneer at you and act like that doesn't count because "I le want to sit on my couch" or "it's price range isn't affordable" as some cope to why they're still playing games designed around controller limitations first and foremost.

>>717247382
Have you tried not being objectively wrong?

>>717247608
>skill expression
Yeah that's not a thing. There's a reason sports have rules and restrictions, it's not free-form jazz, and there's a reason paintball is a sport and laser tag isn't.

>>717247410
>visually neon puke
what a random thing to say about the visuals of game
>no redeeming soundtrack
who gives a fuck about the music of a game lmao
>poorly written story
name a single game with a well written story, they don't exist, its not a strength of the medium but a weakness with all of the constraints games put on story due to the interactivity
>overrated arcadey shit
so your only thoughts on what constitutes as bad gameplay is arcadey gameplay?


wait till this guy finds out that people play roguelikes, actually just plain text on a screen, no music or sfx, basically 0 story, but have absolutely amazing gameplay.


>insanely deep backlog
yeah, no wonder you try to catalog shit to "play", because you don't actually play them, you treat them like movies to watch lmao

man really out here saying gameplay is the least important part of a game
doesn't even try to dispute the book example, truly an absurd person lmao just fucking lmao

>>717247608
VR needs more than 1 actual game.

>>717247735
>wait till this guy finds out that people play roguelikes, actually just plain text on a screen, no music or sfx, basically 0 story, but have absolutely amazing gameplay
>AMAZING GAMEPLAY
Nice subjectivity there. Unfortunately it's not true

>>717247815
yeah says the guy who thinks the font and paper a book is printed on is more important the words in it
if you think gameplay is the least important part of a game and don't care if it isn't there then your opinion on games is irrelevant.

>>717247735
I don't argue with people who compare movies and books to videogames.

They're retards of the highest degree.

>>717247864
Book comparisons are made by retards who don't read and thus I'm not going to engage in it.

my SOLES are LIKE really smelly. Anybody want a sniff?

>>717247931
>no argument
I accept your concession.

>>717247979
are you cute?

>>717228542
Half Life is definitely an imsim

>>717247990
You weren't making an argument.

>>717248019
It's not

>>717248001
no I am a fat ugly man that nobody likes

>>717247979
do you have a feminine penis?

>>717248065
hmmm okay well I guess I'll do it

>>717225810 (OP)
Did you make this thread because someone called your, hobby-grade coop campaign genre blended multi mode competitive e-sports meta growth choice + epic heroes, game slop?

I just want to close this thread by reminding everyone that avatarfags make apriori dogshit posts. Deprive them of attention, and they will surely wither and die.

im a midwit

>>717248229
Just play less bad games.

>>717248113
I like think so. I mean it's feminine in skin texture and smoothness, but it's also moderately big

>>717225810 (OP)
> Appears "difficult" on the surface but enemies have extremely telegraphed slow simple attack patterns that are easily countered and reactable. Also appears extremely "punishing" on the surface as most melee attacks have high commitment long wind-up times and can't be cancelled. Really the perfect combo for making low skilled slow reaction time nu-gamers get that dopamine feedback loop that would normally only come from skilled successful playthough of a truly difficult game.


At its core, the soulslike genre is about creating the illusion of fake difficulty.