Uhh...AI slop accusers? Your response?
https://x.com/omwgamestudio

>>717269020 (OP)
>file.png
dumbphone

omg sars they are on twitter! they must be legit!!!

And I am steadily making progress towards becoming the Pope.

nothing ever happens

>>717269276
Once I'm cardinal, you get my vote.

seriously, why are you all so cynical and negative? Someone makes a legitimate good faith effort to create the game of their (and a lot of our) dreams, and your first response is to shit on them?

>>717269964
I am making fun of OP

>>717269020 (OP)
The guy Desimulate is a well known AI art guy. I assume he's trying to make a game studio off the hype of his shorts but I doubt they will be able to accomplish anything since the guy leading it has no artistic experience or knows how to draw, render or do anything game related.
It also sucks because most of his art are obvious AI slop repaints of popular old school artists who's style he's corpse puppeting with stable diffusion and other slop LLMs.

>>717269964
>Someone makes a legitimate good faith effort to create the game of their (and a lot of our) dreams
It's AIslop that exposed the average AI normalfag never knew about sprite graphics existing and that the "dream game" of the typical AI shill is open world slop.

>>717269964
>legitimate good faith effort
Clamping on to a somewhat viral video and saying 'yeah we're doing that now' without any prior experience or credibility is not a good faith effort.

AI is not a problem as long the result is actually good.


The result is not good.

>>717269020 (OP)
>rushing to shit out viral AIslop
It's not gonna get made.

>>717269020 (OP)
To make it like the AI did, you need to learn how to do voxel space, and use a slightly more advanced one that allow you to extend some voxels up to make the grass.
It's not particularly has actually:

https://github.com/s-macke/VoxelSpace

>>717269964
bait is so fucking effortless these days

It's gonna be a dogshit looking DOOM wad focused on a melee combat.

>>717269020 (OP)
This >>717271208

Not to mention, the scale is impossible. The only reason this trended among normalfags is because the unmoving town and castle in the background make it look like a huge open world. There are existing games that pull off a similar aesthetic but take place in small dingy dungeons, and normalfags don't give a fraction of a shit about those. You'd need AAAAA-tier funding to pull off a 3D open world with this style that could appease normalfags.

>>717271834
Daggerfall with Hexen combat? Sign me in

>>717269020 (OP)
it'll be really funny if they make that game and it's a hit

this looks like the most generic game ever if you remove the pixels. gamers just want the same thing over and over again and then complain about lack of originality

>>717269020 (OP)
Show me a SINGLE title released since let's say 2020 that encompasses the sense of wonder, adventure and fun AT LEAST as good as the AI slop webm does, through its visuals only. ONE. I am personally so sick of both "quirky indie pixel" and open world slop and "MC slowly walking while the camera pans around the ultra-realistic scene" so much it's insane! I'll play the suggestion, I just want to have fun outside the old games that I play over and over anyway - just finished a run of anno 1404 in prep for pax romana

>>717271352
He could do it a traditional 2d sprite in 3d space engine technique. However how would he be able to replicate the shadows correctly or the style? What about night and day time that would be very difficult to do. And even moreso you'd need a pixel artist who could replicate the work.
I doubt he's even thought of how he's going to implement things visually let alone how the game is going to actually play.

>>717271834
>It's gonna be a dogshit looking DOOM wad focused on a melee combat.
don't threaten me with a good time

>>717272091
I know it's not the normie answer, but unironically BG3

>Some fag spammed his "game" for weeks on /v/ so it would be called AI slop, before creating a twitter account
gotta give respect to the shill game

>>717272276
>not
meant to say it is, excuse my retardation

>>717269964
because they have no talent and are likely pro-Israeli.

>>717272012
What do you mean make the game you dam faggot. You could make a similar video in less than a minute. It’s just a video shit out by ai

>>717271972
It'll probably be more like Arthurian legends, but worse.

>>717269020 (OP)
My response to "AI good" is Wizard of Oz at the Sphere

>>717272592
this is the beginning stages of building out and creating this game anon. It's gonna take years, of course they can't get it done overnight

>>717272314
>implying this isnt all one big scam where the account tries to get money and keeps putting out AIslop "previews" of the game

>>717272592
it must be hard being this retarded

>>717269020 (OP)
ive been working to achieve this vision before this slop was ever generated so im kind of annoyed and very much hoping its just bullshit to get people hyped for nothing lol

>>717269020 (OP)
>Uhh...AI slop accusers? Your response?
Look at the account reposting.
It's ALL AI slop.

>>717273301
oh cool anon, best of luck on your goal! How far along are you?

>>717273595
no it's ALL AI. It's NOT AI "slop"

>>717273668
It 100% is AI slop,

>>717273668
>millennialslop post

>>717273627
my programmer art is ass, plus music is my primary hobby, so not very. but it's coming along, slowly but surely. i'm trying to get into HD index painting to see if maybe i can make some good genesis/super scaler-esque art easily. i dont want to show anyone what i'm doing until it looks good.

>>717269020 (OP)
Will I be able to prompt my custom quests and/or mechanics?

>>717274118
fair enough, keep on keeping on

>>717269020 (OP)
>Make a game out of the latest FOTW engagement bait
Very promising

>>717269020 (OP)
>game studio named after a throwaway "on my way" line in a tweet
people who bought the hawk tuah coin wetting their pants rn

>>717274379
>people who bought the hawk tuah coin wetting their pants rn
it's funny because a ton of people in the discord he created for the "game" are straight up asking if he's making an "OMW" coin to piggyback off of the virality

i hope AI eventually becomes so political that they have to prohibit it. THis is the only way

>>717274674
>THis is the only way
to hell, yes

>>717274674
>i hope AI eventually becomes so political that they have to prohibit it
even for non-political applications like games? That seems wildly far-fetched anon

>>717269964
because its retarded. It's trying to cash in what's popular if anything.
Give it a minute of thought and you realize only because that animation looked nice doesn't make the game good by any means.

Quite the contrary, the devs now have to fantasize something fitting around it and they probably don't even have the manpower or budget to make anything other than shit out a rushed eternal EA game in a year.

>>717269964
>seriously, why are you all so cynical and negative?
they are pathetic losers

>>717274750
Yes. You are stealing someone else work trough the use of AI to "create" slop. Earn it bitch

>>717269020 (OP)
If even one of those followers is a human account then we deserve to be wiped out by Skynet.

>>717270817
>noooooooooo your dream game can't be open world!
>it has to be linear rpg with only romance

Kill yourself

>>717269020 (OP)
Cool, demo when? And you better not tell me it's just going to be a walking simulator cause then I might as well play sony slop.

>>717275541
>demo when?
in like 2-3 years maybe? They literally just started

>>717269020 (OP)
I have a bridge to sell you bro

>>717269964
its literally AI, you fucking retard

>>717269964
Youre the kind of faggot who thinks those unreal engine mario demos are amazing
There is 0 good faith effort going into this

>>717276090
>There is 0 good faith effort going into this
you're just projecting, you have no clue if it is or not

>>717275786
>>717275541
this is not a game and never will be, you dense motherfuckers.

>>717269020 (OP)
>Comments are all checkmark griftoids
I'm good bro

>>717269020 (OP)
WOW IS THAT AN X ACCOUNT????

>>717276456
>"Stop dreaming Jeff, your shitty little online bookstore delivery will never take off!"
>"Get your heads out of the clouds Elon, you can't build rockets! There's no such thing as a private space company!"

>>717276845
absolute ass cancer post

>>717277589
>Run from Twitter to post on twitter-lite because he has no reply

>>717277589
I asked grok to give me a guide on how to coom hands-free and was able to actually make it happen because of it

>>717269964
kill yourself you dumb faggot

>>717278169
kvetching about AI isn't gonna make it go away anon

>>717278135
it's all in the mind

>>717278554
knowing what I know now it's crazy how right you are

>>717269063
What? That's how Windows name copypasted screenshots.

>>717279254
>copypasted screenshots.
What the fuck is one of those? You either press printscreen and paste into Paint in which case you have to manually name the file, or you use the snipping tool and it saves as screenshot-date-xxxxx.png by default.

>>717279804
I use ShareX.

>>717279804
I use Win+Shift+S, opens up the snipping tool and lets you just copy paste. Super easy

call me when they have a game so I can laugh at it

>>717269020 (OP)
The joke is getting out of hand now. This AI slop looks nice, but it's impossible to turn into an actual game. The closest you could possibly get would be Daggerfall.
It feels like the thing went viral and the proompters who made it had to try and turn it into a startup like true tech bros. A year or two ago, they would've made an NFT collection.

>>717279804
you can copy paste an image from almost anywhere into 4chan reply box you don't need a file

and yeah win+shift+s goes into your clipboard so just paste it in

>>717277589
>bluesky screenshot of a twitter screenshot

>>717269020 (OP)
>click on website
>"please insert email"

I believe it when i play it.

I actually hope it happens
Not those jeetscamers tho

>>717271964

You dumb fagets still dont get it.

THE ENTIRE FUCKIGN SELLING POINT OF THIS AESTHETIC IS THAT THE ILLUSION OF FLAT 90s BACKGROUNDS IS CRACKED OPEN BY A LEGIT OPEN WORLD THAT LETS YOU VENTURE TO SAD "FLAT" CASTLE

Spoiler, the Castle is 3D

>>717274674
Like in Dune? lol

LISAN AL GAIB TROLOLOLOLO

>>717281968
spoiler, the "game" in these gifs would break as soon as you tried to turn left or right

>>717282175
Not if coded very VERY carefully.

>>717282175
it is possible to emulate that sort of pixel 3d style with camera control but I don't think it would look as stable in motion

even modern 3d games have a problem with anything at a slight distance being a fucking blur

>>717277589
Mickey talking like he's not the biggest virgin around.

>>717269964
My dream game isn't a walking game.

>>717281968
It's called playing in 240p

>>717281330
>you can copy paste an image from almost anywhere into 4chan reply box you don't need a file
OK when the fuck did this happen

>>717283074
idk I've been doing it for years

>>717274674
I hope robots rape you to death but keep you alive instead of letting you die.

>>717269020 (OP)
This is blatantly a grift for blue checkmark money and this game is never going to fucking come out

>>717282554
>>717282175
it can be done

>>717283632
This effect is called Octahedral Impostor

You can learn more about here: https://shaderbits.com/blog/octahedral-impostors

>>717283074
anon...

>>717282056
Yeah like in Dune, but instead of spice it's just jpeg artifacts and shader jank.
FEAR IS THE GIF-KILLER

>>717283632
>>717283710
https://files.catbox.moe/g3dl30.mp4
The video from the image running "ingame"

>>717283632
Damn they already got a working demo?
AI is really good now wtf

>>717269276
I wish you were anon
I want a 4chan pope

>>717274929
funny you go straight to banning instead of simply making models on data from consenting artists like modelers sell asset packs or artists sell sprite packs

>>717269964
>seriously, why are you all so cynical and negative
Because India exists.

>>717272782
>worse
Are you implying Arthurian Legends is bad, boyo?

>>717284009
Crazy how AI is making progress now

>>717284613
What word would you use to describe something lower on the scale of good to bad, retard

>>717279804
What a fucking tech illiterate retard KEK.

funny how the debate around this is AI retards not even understanding why they like it
maybe you should ask grok for an opinion fag

>>717283632
>>717284009
what this sort of thing needs is a couple lower res variants for distant trees
it loses that pixel art feel once you get further away because it's the same res sprite at any distance

>>717284009
Looking through his games and it's pretty impressive just how many things you can do with AI now.
He is even doing a small AAA game that you can play on your browser.

>>717281968
>Spoiler, the Castle is 3D
No it isn't. It's AI slop.

>>717285338
I think anon meant
>if someone made a game like this people expect the castle to be a place you can walk up to and explore

>>717284786
less good
not amazing
9/10
Arthurian legends isn't amazing but I really liked it.

>>717284929
They say AI destroys critical thinking skills but it's not like these retards had any in the first place.

>Another AI thread
Oh sweet Lois!
RETARD WATCHING

>>717269020 (OP)
good luck bro

>>717284707
i have yet to use an AI, tell it
>ok now make that same character exactly but give me some walking frames
and have the AI actually give me the same character.

>>717269020 (OP)
What am I in for?

also why is everyone saying
>look at how far AI has come!!
to this sweriko's stuff? so far the only tools i've seen him mention are threejs and webgpu.

>>717288052
Patreon donation requests, years of no progress, a slow trickle of AI genned slop posts to spread out in between.

>>717284929
it looks cool

>>717288486
Have you tried to visit a classical art museum?

>>717288952
yes

I look forward to this g̵a̷me!

>>717283851
he means the Butlerian Jihad a war that got all computers, thinking machines, and sentient robots banned

>>717287405
you can do consistent character design using the Inpainting tool, the only thing AI still lacks is in smaller detail and overlapping parts of a drawing but if you are willing to spend a few more minutes you can easily fix that by yourself using Gimp/Photoshop.

but yeah, in the end your input is still require on the AI art itself to make it consistent and good looking, you can't just write in words and let the computer do absolutely everything with 100% perfect match

>>717288952
Um help
@Mastercard
@Visa
This is making me want to rape!

>>717289184

>>717284929
>not even understanding why they like it

So just like every retard talking about human "art" in vague platitudes.

>>717274929
>You are stealing
Incorrect. Next cope.
>trough
Never mind, street shitter detected.

>>717281330

Don't tell people about that. Also it appends [1] to the end of the filename so it's easy to spot.

Also while we're giving 4chan protips you can highlight text and press CTRL+S to spoiler it, no more fucking up the tags.
And if you wanna link to a crossboard thread you can just directly paste the URL, the board software will reformat it so no more fucking with arrows to get it right.

>>717290617
Also install 4chanXT

>>717269276
When I'm finished assassinating my targets I'll kick your ass

>>717269964
Jesus christ is so easy to bait /v/ fags.

>>717290138
I love that AI niggers are desperately trying to "no u" their poojeet image. There's no better sign that it gets under their skin

>>717290349
no it doesn't

>>717271964
Wtf is with that torch

>>717278612
>>717278554
>>717277589
what and youre not gonna share how to coom hands free?

>>717274674
The law is powerless to change society. Remember the prohibition and war on drugs. Patent law is also dead thanks to China. The law can only punish individuals, not trends. It's a social issue. People rejecting it as a group or creating religions that make it immoral. No other way. Luckily no one likes aislop

>>717284707
Crazy how it still gave that guy six fingers on his left hand.

>>717274057
Stop calling random indian cringe "millennial". Show me a good game made by a zoomer, I'll wait

>>717290617
Absolute lifesaver, anon. Been here for years and still see brainlets fumbling their spoiler tags like it’s 2014. While we’re at it, middle-click a post number to open it in a new tab without navigating away-useful for diving into 10 layers of bait and still coming back alive.

you will see ai zombies in your lifetime who let ai do all the thinking for them

>>717292021
basically just make yourself really excited

>>717292580
Grok told me you're full of shit

>>717269964
My dream is to be eaten whole by a giant furry woman, not some AI sloppa game.

>>717292580
>will
theres at least like 9 in this thread

How did he know?

>>717293140
wish he'd known not to slap Zender

>>717269964
you're on 4chan

why are woke people so afraid of AI?

>About to graduate with a STEM degree (programming adjacent)
>Literally every single job opening either requires you to have experience with AI or over 10 years in the field
Why the fuck is every single company in the world trying to jump on the AI hype train? I feel like just two or three years ago the only thing it was used for was generating crappy porn.

>>717293469
Why do people always say afraid when it's clearly disgusted?

>>717292580
I already have.

>>717293469
heres a question, why are you scared of taking a shower, youre 70% water ranjeet its okay to bathe every once in a while

>>717269020 (OP)
>>717273595
>>717271964
Man, AI would be a great mechanic to use for a Chronicles of Amber game. I highly recommend the books. Imagine an action fantasy RPG where the world consistently shift around you while traveling on horse back.

>>717293469
Why are AI people so afraid of toilets?

>>717293489
decrepit, rich old men hope it will save them and so pour money into it

>>717293489
>Why the fuck is every single company in the world trying to jump on the AI hype train?
Because everyone and their brain dead grandma think that the technology that they've seen through science fiction mediums is here and can open the doors to the future that they envisioned. In reality, it just going to be used for generating low effort junk that companies can spam everywhere while saving money.

Don't forget it will also allow governments and politicians to get away with more shit by calling any evidence fake.

>>717294250
also clueless failson tech bros.
they're still waiting for the singularity. any year now.

>>717269964
Seeing the amount of replies this shit got I expected you'd have sneaked in a way to pretend you're the devs
but no it just got replies for no reason

>>717289503
So you're telling me if I learn how to code in gdscript and how to use godot, I can just tell the AI to make the assets since I can't paint even if my life depended on it?

>>717279804
Embarrassing

>>717270817
You don't know any of that.

>>717283074
never . theyre using browser extensions

>Normies hyping up muddy AI pixelshit with parallax scrolling

Parallax scrolling has been a thing in gaming since the fucking 80s. AI is literally just wrapped paper they put around old concepts to try to sell you inferior goods with no clear direction or vision behind it.

>>717269020 (OP)
this just reeks of an AI grifter trying to cash in on his viral post, I greatly doubt anything will come of it

>>717281237
>This AI slop looks nice, but it's impossible to turn into an actual game
you don't know that

>>717294587
>just tell the AI to make the assets
AI seems to work best for map assets. backgrounds, buildings, objects.
it just isn't consistent enough yet to "remember" what character it just genned and give you additional sheets of frames.

>>717269020 (OP)
>the X thing you always wanted

>>717290997
>"E-EVERYTHING I DON'T LIKE IS LE BAIT!!1!"

>>717281237
>but it's impossible to turn into an actual game
while the octahedral imposters have convinced me it is possible, i still agree it's just Daggerfall.

>>717292021
search "mindgasm" on youtube. I used their lessons and it actually worked for me

>>717296025
I guess I could just upload the picture of a frame for the character and tell it to draw it in another position for several frames, but I'm not too railed up about this, since I've got several things to do before I get into learning godot, I can wait for the AI to improve.

>>717294521
>unironic (you) envy
the fuck happened to this shithole?

>>717293489
>Why the fuck is every single company in the world trying to jump on the AI hype train?
Have you used gemini 2.5 pro?

>>717296178
>it's just Daggerfall
Why are you guys so blind?
I feel like I could do a study on this
Its clearly not like daggerfall at all

>>717298352
so can you actually articulate how?

>>717298421
No
Ita clearly just different
You guys are looking at a blue triangle and claiming its a red square

>>717298481
more like we're looking at a blue triangle and calling it a teal triangle.

>>717298295
nah "bro", I don't use AIslop

>>717279804
>saves as screenshot-date-xxxxx.png
That's if you save the image. If you just use the snipping tool, it copies it to your clipboard. Then you can directly paste it into the file select (or with 4chanX, just press Ctrl V in the reply box), and it defaults to file.png

>>717298421
he has eyes so he can look at daggerfall and see that it's different

>>717269020 (OP)
Retarded scam AI pajeet shit

Is there footage of this game or is it the same AI video thats been spammed for a while now.

>>717300232
There's a website now
omwgame.com
Patreon coming soon!

>>717300232
you really think they're capable of making a game? lmao

>>717269020 (OP)
If it's good it's good. We'll see.

>>717269020 (OP)
Gameplay video, environment and character models preview?

>>717299863
so the answer is no

>>717300342
>omwgame.com
i love how everything isn't in the same artstyle at all lmao

>>717271964
>You'd need AAAAA-tier funding to pull off a 3D open world with this style
not really man. it's not even that difficult to recreate that webm with sprites, voxels, and LOD code to switch between them

>>717300828
>he doesn't have eyes
lmao

>>717269020 (OP)
>Your response?

>>717301104
>he doesn't have thoughts
lawl

>dev's fw his prompt "gork make me a game lthat looks like this video" doesn't work

>>717301204
>claims to have thoughts when he can't compare two pictures and see differences in them

>>717273595
At this point I don't care.
I fucking miss this old 70s art-style for fantasy.
If AIsloppers are what's needed to make corpos realize that it's indefinitely better than using WoW/Heartstone artstyle, then so be it.

>>717299671
Then you don't know what you are talking about
You are a horse saying cars are slop

>>717301315
>claims they're different because uh they are

>>717301241
Your response??
>>717284009
>>717283632

>>717269964
I don't think there is inherently anything wrong with using AI to help you make games, but you have to be realistic in how it is used if you want to be able to create a product, and to create a product people actually want.
So far, this is little more than showing off an AI generated animation. Nothing about that actually transfers over to being useful in creating a video game, except maybe in creating cutscenes.

>>717269020 (OP)
Realistically how much performance would this AI generating and rendering pixelated land like that in the game would take?
Something tells me it would melt your gpu.

>>717278554

If you wanna test me, I'm sure you'll find-

Why would you start working on a 5 year project now when in 5 years you can have AI make the entire game for your start to finish in 15 minutes?

>>717301775
Nanite will fix it. Don't worry about it

If any of these people knew the first thing about game design or had any ideas for how to use AI to actually innovate in terms of gameplay I would care, but they never do.

Owlboy should have taught everyone that just because you know the first thing about pixel art direction doesn't mean you are qualified to make a game, and that was almost a decade ago

What is the appeal of detail not generated by a human? Isn't the point of detail the fact that you can see impressions of the artist's work? If detail has no intent it's just noise.

>>717269020 (OP)
For those who haven't figured it out, there isn't going to be a game, he's just going to farm x revenue

>>717301775
To have it generate it live? Your framerate would be measured in seconds per frame, and every time you turned around the world would be different.

>>717301857
Because they are going to leverage ai to have the game done in 6 months
>impossible
Chatgpt5 is is releasing this month

>>717301906
AI is already indistinguishable from "real" art

>>717301536
Response to what? A different guy using technology that's almost a decade old?

>>717301906
I don't care about art
I just want style and gameplay

>>717301536
>dev's fw his prompt "grok make my octahedral impostor baker work for me" produces horribly buggy code that he doesn't even know how to read anyway, and his next prompt "grok please fix this code so that it works" also doesn't work.

>>717301884
>Nanite will fix it. Don't worry about it
Nanites for actual objects with 3d geometry though. There's no fucking way it would work on basically just pixel art.

>>717283632
>>717284009
Can AI do these?

>>717301857
why would you wait 5 years before starting to collect Patreon donations?

>>717301942
>To have it generate it live? Your framerate would be measured in seconds per frame,
wrong
We already had real time doom and minecraft ai generated. Gta and csgo too
>and every time you turned around the world would be different.
This was somewhat fixed in the csgo version
Honestly another year or two and generating the entire game on thr fly might be the standard
Tencents new world model is cool and might be useful for this

>>717301915
>source: my ass

>>717301942
>Your framerate would be measured in seconds per frame, and every time you turned around the world would be different.
So the "game" they're showing is physically impossible right now basically.

>>717302047
Nanite is magic. Don't question it
And even if all else fails then we can just dlss5 our way up from 100p too 1440p

>>717302173
>We already had real time doom and minecraft ai generated. Gta and csgo too
Where did you get the Nasa computer?

>>717301903
And of course nobody in these threads ever has a response for this either because the kind of people who get excited about AIslop are very different from the kind of people that know what they're talking about with games

>>717269276
Godspeed anon

>>717302269
The "game" they are showing is just an AI generated animation.

>>717288052
> this form design
lmao, yea, this shit is dead in the water. Graphic design is my passion

>>717269020 (OP)
Money laundering scheme
They noticed it went viral and began scamming fools

>>717302036
>next prompt "grok please fix this code so that it works"
This works for me like 80% of the time
>>717302336
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5gcmqTYbMTI

>>717302559
Looks good to me

>>717269020 (OP)

Is this going to be a crypto NFT AI game or what?

sooo uhhh. what lora/ or whatever thing you need for ai vdieos did they use to make that image?

I wanna use to make a POV image of (you/shota pov included as alt) entering a monstergirl/succubi onsen

>>717302615
>This works for me like 80% of the time
bro you should probably go around to all these big companies and professional, highly-paid programmers who say AI can't code for shit and it takes longer to fix their mistakes than it does to actually just write the fuckin code, and tell them you'll fix all their problems for a cool 5 mil.
i'm sure
>grok fix this
will totally work

>>717302615
>mutasaar
come on dude

>>717302615
>4090
>running at 8 frames per second
>blurry mess
>probably is killing his GPU faster than a bitcoin miner.

>>717302792
Ask /g/
Its the newish Chinese video model that i forgot the name of

>>717303218
>>717301942
>running at 8 frames per second
That's still frames per second and not seconds per frame so eat shit i win

>>717301404
>If AIsloppers are what's needed to make corpos realize that it's indefinitely better than using WoW/Heartstone artstyle, then so be it.
Meanwhile corpos:
>Wow, this "AI" thing sure did blow up, I think we need to train AI on Hearthstone artstyle because everyone loves it!

>>717303092
it's over

>>717301492
it's simple

they are different