Thread 717329176

Was the Library really that bad?

all halo is bad

>>717329176 (OP)
It's the closest thing Halo has to Half-Life's Xen. An obnoxious shitshow filled with the least fun aspect of the game.

It was hell as a little kid, but I appreciated its relentless survival horror decades later in the MCC.

>>717329176 (OP)
At the time I didn't feel so. My favorite webcomic hated everything about my favorite game though.

>>717329176 (OP)
Not really, just incredibly repetitive.

Halo CE: Rebalanced fixes that by filling it with more things and different kinds of combat encounters. You'd be amazed how well just adding vehicles, an Energy Sword and a sidequest to rescue an Engineer make things more fun.

>>717329176 (OP)
Played it this year for the first time on PC and just found it mind numbingly exhausting by the end. Not hard, just tedious.

What I don't get is the complaining about rocket floods, their accuracy is shit and there's like maybe 3 of them in the game

>>717329321
You don't need to be accurate with a rocket launcher, the splash damage alone can kill you

>>717329176 (OP)
when i was a kid i watched my friend rage trying to fight and kill everything in every encounter when i just ran through until each door running and gunning

>>717329176 (OP)
Funny enough the version in Anniversary is much worse, everything is so brightly lit.

>>717329321
They're mostly a meme. The only one that's ever given me any trouble was the one in one of the tight hallways on Two Betrayals.
>>717329395
Imagine not killing every enemy in the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y72ysg_O8lE

>>717329468
CE Anniversary was the first sign the series wasn't in good hands post-Bungie.

>>717329362
I don't remember them being smart with their aiming, they aim at you so if you're jumping it'll just fly by, they have killed me but people seem to talk about them as if they're as bad as jackal snipers, maybe I just got lucky

>>717329176 (OP)
In CE it was a consequence of limitations, same reason a lot of maps got a bit repetitive in some ways(see: control room), now doing it again in 2 has no excuse.

>>717329321
>their accuracy is shit
Play above normal difficulty

>>717329629
>doing it again in 2 has no excuse.

Except for the fact Halo 2's disastrous development has been well-documented for the longest time. It was making the best of a bad situation.

>>717329176 (OP)
The Library was a proper test of pathing, endurance, and even stealth. It's my favorite level in the game.

Cortana wishes it was even half as good. That shitfest punished you for not running past everything.

>>717329629
>now doing it again in 2 has no excuse
The game was larger, had better graphics and cutscenes, but still had to run on the same hardware and they had less time to make the game than they did with CE. That Halo 2 was as good as it was is nothing short of a miracle when you're aware of how fucked the development cycle for it was.

>>717329176 (OP)
I liked the tension it provided. No other level in the game made you push forward and cleave through a horde the same way.

>>717329712
My problem with Cortana is I often end up getting lost due to the fucked up level geometry. It's much tougher to get lost in the Library.

>>717329631
I have, CE is probably the easiest I think

>>717329271
Oh wow! Exactly what I wanted! More enemies on that shit level to prolong it even more! WOOOOOOWWW

>>717329717
Halo 2 is my least favorite Bungie-era title, really hoping the Rebalanced mod changes that because everything I've seen so far looks promising.

>>717329789
Is this not considered the case? CE's legendary was just the devs overturning things, later games they put effort into it.

>>717329789
CE isn't very difficult, but it's the most fun because it lets you actually play the game like an FPS and not a cover shooter.

>>717329789
Then you should know well that higher difficulties reduces the AI's time to aim and shoot, and that certain rocket flood are placed to ambush you in locations where there's no way to avoid the splash damage.

>>717329836
Didn't ask.

>>717329825
When you've got vehicles and more variety to the combat situations? Yeah more enemies in the Library are great.

There's also the Combat Revolved Mod, which along with changing all the lighting to dark red also implements cut weapons and has you fighting alongside the Covenant occasionally, but the difficulty us pretty unbalanced.

The original pleb filter.

>>717329898
And yet you replied.

>>717329836
I worry about 2 Rebalanced succumbing to scope creep. It seems like every couple months he comes up with a new idea that will obviously need to be implemented into previous levels. Not to mention him literally rebuilding the maps to add new areas to them.
That shit is never coming out.

>>717329362
Rocket flood don't go for splash damage. They aim towards you for direct hits, and if they DID kill you with splash damage, it was most likely by hitting a wall behind you. Thankfully, every rocket flood spawn in CE is spawned far from the player and never during the "bumrush" segments. You come to them, not the other way around. When spotted from a distance, and they are VERY easy to spot when carrying such huge weapons, rocket flood are easily juked and dealt with.

Shotgun flood on the other hand can go straight to hell

>>717329321
>there's like maybe 3 of them in the game
You clearly don't remember this level

>>717329841
Isn't that 2? I feel that's the most bullshit one and the one I think they tested the least, you can die instantly in the first second of Gravemind

>>717329863
Yeah I know but once you know they're there you can plan for it, it's not like the jackals where there's usually 10 of them popping up from random directions in one encounter, the only one that ambushes you that I can remember is the first one

>>717329957
It's not as if Ruby's developing it solo, though I would be lying if I said I wasn't uneasy over the same concerns.

>>717329997
>Isn't that 2?
I think it goes.
>CE was overtuned to where the devs couldn't beat it
>2 was overtuned to that point then overtuned agian

>>717329780
That is another major boon to the Library that many people miss. The level's simplistic design allows you to focus entirely on fighting off hordes and spotting dangerous rocket and shotgun flood.

>>717329997
The first couple are in The Library, the first one there can nail you with splash by hitting flood that are coming up from behind you, the second is easier, it jumps out from around a corner some distance away. There's three more in Two Betrayals, one in one of the corridors that hits you with splash because the corridors are narrow, and another on the bridge which is easier to avoid, and the third is in the final run but easy to miss because the covvies usually get it first.

>>717330046
He's not, but he is doing the geometry tweaks on his own, and I doubt that will be reserved exclusively for the second half of the game.
Having a team honestly makes it worse. Unless he picked up a group of complete betas who do everything he says to a T, there's going to be even more gunk thrown into the works. I've seen that a million times in free mod projects.

>>717330131
Actually, scratch that, there's four in Two Betrayals, I forgot the one on the underground bridge that jumps out from around a corner.

>>717330128
Yeah but at the same time there's very little variety to the Library's enemy encounters in the base game. It gets boring fast.

>>717329321
Noobs cant bunny hop and use their magnum to take them out before they shoot. Shotgun floods are way more annoying.

>>717330182
It can't be worse than SPV1

Everyone bitches about the rocket flood in CE, but they always forget that the ones in 2 have homing rockets in Quarantine Zone that force you to play like a total pussy in your vehicles or on foot in legendary.

>>717330182
Again, fair points, but I still hope you're wrong.

>>717330227
Probably not.
>>717330263
I hope so, too. I don't like Halo 2 much and pushing it to play more like CE can only be a good thing for me. I feel the same way about Reach Evolved, which is also in development hell. Feels good that the "big name" modders have the same tastes as me.

>>717330206
And when you start to get bored and think you're going to breeze through whatever the level throws at you, that dreaded message appears on your screen

Wait here for the Monitor to return

>>717330261
>the ones in 2 have homing rockets in Quarantine Zone
No they don't. They shoot straight and there's like one before the crashed sentinel factory.

>>717329176 (OP)
Compared to all the levels that came before it was. Still it's an entertaining challenge.

>>717329321
I recall there's only one of them in the map but they are terrible gotcha! nevertheless.

>>717330261
Yeah, as much as I enjoy vehicle-based levels in Halo, I hate Quarantine Zone, even without the fucking Gondola ride.

>>717329176 (OP)
When I first played this mission I fucking hated it, but the more I played it the more I ended up really liking it. As a kid my friends and I would always make up various challenges for us to do after we beat the game so many times and The Library always had the most challenges we could come up with. After recently playing through the MCC with a buddy, it's still my favorite CE mission and we still do the "Legendary, plasma pistol only, maintain green overshields" challenge and it's fun as fuck. I can understand why a lot of people don't like it, but I think it's the perfect level to follow up 343 with to really showcase just how dangerous and overwhelming the flood is by making you run the gauntlet. No humans, no Covenant, just Flood.

>>717330352
Halo 2's maps were all cramped. You never really got a big open area like Halo or AOTCR.

I beat it on legendary
Nothing about the flood is actually dangerous and nothing about the library is a test of any skill except patience the entire thing is just fucking boring waiting for the eight wave of flood to spawn out of a random vent before moving onto the next, identical vent to repeat the process
the only parts that are even a risk of death are when they fucking spawn exploders right behind you and that one room that they trap you in but even that i solved quicker than the hanger bay of truth and reconciliation.
The game was just repeating fucking hallways at that point and was entirely a drag.

>>717330331
They absolutely do on legendary. I've been killed by them in the ghost.

>>717330352
It's ass, but it's worth it for Unyielding

>>717329321
Just like any other "tough" enemy the trick is to take them down first. But that's already too much to handle for the average gamer.

>>717330418
My memory must be failing me then, that means it's time for another Halo 2 legendary run. God have mercy.

>>717330408
Yeah that's a big reason I dislike 2, along with underpowered weapons, bullet-sponge brutes and segments that go on for too long like the elevator in The Oracle and the Gondola in Quarantine Zone.

>>717330497
There's a lot of things I dislike about 2, but I actually liked the Brutes and what they offered compared to Elites. What I disliked was how their main weapon was completely useless against them, and almost never used against Elites. I'd have made it do extra damage against flesh, the Plasma Pistol was able to do that in CE.

>>717329176 (OP)
I hate the Flood so much.
>Hey, let's make an enemy faction made out of all the worst types of enemies you could fight in an FPS! Then we'll gradually make them the main thing you fight throughout the game!
What a retarded design decision. Plotwise they're good, even if they're basically a longer lived version of System Shock's The Many.

>>717330612
Especially since the Brutes in 2 have little to no armor on.

Go, Arbiter! I'll follow when our reinforcements arrive.

>>717330672
I hate the fact Halfjaw hasn't reappeared since Halo 3.

Also the fact I can't remember his real name.

>>717330672
I mean to be fair to him, it's pretty hard to get to his rank by charging head first into a flood horde with only an energy sword.

>>717330713
Rtas Vadumee

>>717330723
How do you even pronounce Rtas?

>>717330713
Halo: New Covenant fucked up on a LOT of things for how promising it looked, at the top of that was killing Rtas.

>>717330757
Ar-tas I assume

>>717330660
Yeah, plasma is completely pointless against them. But it is fun to needle them. I hate when mods remove that, because it's one of the few times that gun is useful.

>>717330824
To be fair the Halo 2 Needler is the single worst version of the weapon.

>>717330713
Pretty sure his voice actor died anyway.

>>717330471
They only home onto vehicles, so the threat of homing rockets only exists in one level.

It's a shame the flood didn't drive vehicles in 3. From a lore standpoint, this was one of the more terrifying aspects of the flood. You knew they could operate machinery when they assimilated Keys in CE, but to witness it firsthand in 2 reminds you of how much of a danger they truly are to the galaxy. Then, when the frigate suspiciously flies over you towards the end of Gravemind, you instantly realize what's going on as the parasite has now taken to the stars.

>>717330714
>only an energy sword.
Literally the best weapon against the flood in the entire game

>>717330937
WHERE in Halo 3 could they have driven vehicles? The only time it would have made sense is the brief period when they first touch down on the Ark.

>>717330872
Not worse than CE's. At least a supercombine in 2 will reliably kill things.

>>717330960
Not only the best weapon against the flood in the game, but more importantly the best weapon against the flood in Halo 2 specifically. The energy sword is by far the best way to chop up the bodies to prevent the infection formes from reanimating them.

we've settled this
it was amazing

>>717330960
If we're including lore, just breathing around a Flood infestation has a chance if you inhaling Flood spores and turning into a combat form. Getting close up to the Flood isn't an enviable position.

>>717330937
>Then, when the frigate suspiciously flies over you towards the end of Gravemind, you instantly realize what's going on as the parasite has now taken to the stars
It's worse than that because you know how much biomass is on high charity. If cortana hadn't tricked the gravemind onto the ark, that would have been it for the galaxy.

>>717331030
Floodgate could have been given vehicle segments like The Storm.

Also the cut level in between The Covenant and Cortana

>>717331075
Uh, no, 2's Needler is definitely worse than CE's. The tracking is weaker and you have to dual wield Needlers to make any real use of them.

>>717331135
Yeah that raises a question.

I thought we destroyed High Charity in Halo 3 by destroying the three tiny pillars which supposedly destabilized its engines, even though we never actually see it explode or fall apart. Then come Halo Wars 2 and High Charity is still more or less intact still on the Ark, just locked under a quarantine barrier.

So what did we actually do at the end of Cortana?

>>717331185
It tracks better because the projectiles are faster. Simply sidestepping causes CE's needles to never hit their target. Having the option to dual wield them is already more than you can do in the first game.

>>717331321
Concerning Halo Wars 2, I assume we just blew the engine core to destroy the Gravemind temporarily, and that gave us time to get to 08. It's not even actually dead as of the ring firing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AoF8pbLq5k

>>717331084
man i love fighting nothing but grunts with the lethality of elites. truly mindnumbing

>>717329176 (OP)
No

>>717331534
What about Carrier forms and infection forms?

>>717331782
carrier forms are basically just plasma grenades thrown very very slowly
infection forms are a non-factor

>>717331321
We destroyed High Charity. Ignore the retcons from nu-Halo

>>717329176 (OP)
i, zoom zoom, played halo ce for the first time blind (never been a fan of halo anything) on like the second hardest difficulty or something not that long ago and this part sucked so fucking bad that i searched it up because i thought i was doing something retarded. no, turns out everybody thinks this place sucks. took me maybe a few lives to realize that you just have to run through enough times until you know where all the enemies are so you can just strategically blast the annoying ones and the ones that get in your way. and then you have to do a bunch of tedious running around bullshit i can hardly even remember. really just mind numbingly annoying design.
>>717329245
genuinely not even close. at least xen is sorta cool.

>>717332692
I will only allow your opinion if you were breathing when halo 1 came out

>>717329176 (OP)
I dont remember it being that bad at all. Then again I wasnt a little bitch at video games

>>717332793
I was 14 when Halo CE released.

>>717332854
Oh, I've got that Elite figure on a shelf in my office.

I hate how impossible it is to get it to stand upright.

>>717329321
isn't the pc version harder due to being better able to handle enemy AI?
at least that's what I've heard.

>>717332793
no :)
i have no idea who this >>717332880 faggot is

>>717332959
Your're not allowed. Everyone will ignore your opinion.

>>717330918
>Pretty sure his voice actor died anyway.
rip

>>717329176 (OP)
It's perfectly awful. A complete onslaught of new and frustrating enemies that you're constantly getting locked into fights with, and the game relishes in the fact that you're trapped in this hell. The last time I played it I was just lost in the atmosphere, so it's good in my book.

>>717332692
The Library isn't the best, basically the only reason to play it is for Guilty Spark's rambling.

>>717333052
Halfjaw's voice actor Robert Davi is still alive. He's thinking of Miguel Ferrer, who voiced the Heretec leader and died some years ago, so wrong Elite.

>>717330226
Magnums are shit against Rocket Flood.

>>717333241
Why rocket flood specifically?

>>717329176 (OP)
honestly most of the levels in Halo are bad
i truly believe that when people think back to CE they only remember the few giant levels and not the copy pasted corridors

>>717332692
honestly, adding onto this, everything with the flood kind of sucked and was annoying. i remember the first half of the game was a lot more strategic and fun without them. i recall hauling around a shotgun everywhere so that i could remove them as quickly as possibly in case i encountered them because i hated the idea of not being able to just delete them whenever they showed up randomly. a lot of the second half of the game wasn't really the best.

>>717333404
Eh, I like assault on the control room and two betrayals for different reasons and love 343 Guilty Spark for the atmosphere. The only level in CE I'm not big on is The Maw since despite playing it for years u still get lost going through it now and then.

>>717331123
The flood spore thing is very unclear.
Some say its only for humans, Elites are supposedly more resistant.
My head cannon is that Flood can't overwrite your DNA with a small dose of spores and the flood DNA inside your body dies without enough flood spores to kickstart the mutation.
Also, I've

>>717333523
>Some say its only for humans

I've never heard that before. Where'd you hear that?

Contact alone is enough to cause infection, going from that one Marine that got sliced up the back and was instantly infected in The Mona Lisa.

>>717329321
Think about it, it's really not possible to die in Halo on normal difficulty, even sniper jackals in H2 deal just a third of your shields, in CE the rocket flood instakills you on anything but easy so it's the only way zoomers die and that makes them angry

>>717333765
>it's really not possible to die in Halo on normal difficulty

It is when there's a swarm of Sentinels or a Wraith around.

>>717333404
>Pillar of Autumn
meh
>Halo
It's alright, it was a pretty impressive display in 2001 though and it's got a decent mix of open areas and indoors
>Truth and Reconciliation
Solid
>Silent Cartographer
Very good
>Assault on the Control Room
Best in the game, very good
>343 Guilty Spark
Very good
>The Library
Carried only by atmosphere and novelty of new enemies
>Two Betrayals
It's fine
>Keyes
bad
>The Maw
Warthog escape is fun a few times but not much else to it

>>717333241
>spot the rocket flood from down the hall. The white markings and tube are a dead giveaway
>it sees your approach and quickly fires his rocket. Someone as green as Chief's armor would be dead on the spot
>however, you are ready for this and juke the rocket
>you shoot him dead at medium to long range before it can fire another rocket
Git Gud, Master Scrub

>>717329176 (OP)
Because Halo CE has several serious flaws and Library encapsulates most of them, particularly the repetitive level design and retarded autosave that may well kick in 1 second before a rocket blows your head off.

>>717333864
>but not much else to it
The scariest room in the entire series

>>717333864
What's wrong with Keyes?

>>717333523
A-ANON?

>>717333901
It's flaws are really nothing compared to how fucked legendary in H2 is, no one seems to remember the start of Gravemind anymore where you start in the middle of enemies and you can get killed over and over again until rng favors you

>>717333980
Way too much semen

>>717333616
>I've never heard that before. Where'd you hear that?
Something about them being tougher and built different, explaining why they didn't need Mark Suits to fight the flood unlike Masterchief, I read about it in some Reddot threads back in 2010

>>717333616
>Contact alone is enough to cause infection, going from that one Marine that got sliced up the back and was instantly infected in The Mona Lisa.

Ain't that from 343 industries lore? They never got the flood right and they don't seem to reach a consensus on them
You have Brutes crushing flood with their bare hands in both Bungie and 343 games (Halo wars 2) and I'm supposed to believe air spores are enough to turn you?

>>717333980
I personally just find it a very boring level. I feel like I should like it more since I enjoy the area design fine and I love 3-way fights, but it just doesn't do it for me.

>>717333523
>Also, I've
Bro you good?

>>717333837
wraith doesn't kill you on even heroic and the sentinels are weak as hell

>>717333947
>The scariest room in the entire series
Which one is that?

>>717334173
The ammo room with invisible elite contact forms.

>>717333404
I love the corridors, Halo combat is the best when it's on foot, my main gripe with H3 is that there is too much vehicleshit

>>717333901
>Because Halo CE has several serious flaws
Like?

>>717334173
The armory

It's the one instance in the series with cloaked flood. They also keep spawning when you kill them

>>717334204
>too much vehicleshit
No such thing.

the thing that annoys me most in halo, is how all the marines and odst's are so fucking stupid and useless. i always want to save as many of them as i can, and then they basically just kill themselves 9 times out of 10.

>>717334192
>>717334237
Ohh yeah you're right, I remember thinking the game bugged when I was a young shitter

>>717334243
My brother
Halo wouldn't be half the game it is if it weren't for the vehicles
Bungie can absolutely fuck themselves for Destiny's pathetic display

>>717334243
Yeah there is, i don't wanna drive in circles waiting for the retard marine AI to shoot a ghost, it's fun to steamroll in a tank but it get's boring in a few minutes

>>717334237
That just made me remember

CE Rebalanced has an unlit corridor segment in Two Betrayals where either a Zealot combat form with a sword will spawn behind you, or it'll spawn a bunch of cloaked elite combat forms. Either result puts me on edge.

>>717334325
That's why you play it co-op as god intended.

>>717334360
In all fairness, a marine with a rocket launcher on the backseat of a Mongoose is more likely to hit an enemy than a human player with the same setup.

>>717329176 (OP)
I don't remember it being that bad, but I can see it intentionally being kind of bad ish thematically. Also isn't the library the last new map? from that point on aren't you just going through the previous maps in reverse?

>>717334413
The human player can tell his brokeback rider to drive straight or slow the fuck down for a shot that won't miss

>>717334413
Yeah, but you can't call him a stupid limp-wristed faggot that can't hold his aim and get a response when he doesn't hit.
And he won't call you a retarded blind grandmother who can't drive in a consistent path in response.

>>717334096
From The Library, 343 Guilty Spark
>You can see how the body's been transformed by the genetic restructuring of the Flood infection. The small creatures carry spores that cause a host to mutate. The mutated host then produces spores that can pass the Flood to others. It is insidious and elegant. As long as any hosts remain, the Flood is virulent.
>Your environment suit should serve you well when the Flood begins to alter the atmosphere. You are a good planner.
From what I can assume, a critical mass of Flood spores is required to mutate an organism, which infection forms carry. Contact alone isn't enough, nor is breathing in a few, but when the Flood begins to specifically alter the atmospherics, that's when simply breathing is enough to cause mutation. The book version of CE and later First Strike indicated that an infection form had to interface with an organism's central nervous system to take control of a host for mutation into a combat form however.

>>717334483
I guess I always read "spores" as being the infection forms, even though thinking about it that doesn't make any sense.

>>717329176 (OP)
Biggest problem is that it just goes on too long and repeats itself too much. Flood shine at their best in shorter segments or three way levels.

>>717334453
The Maw finale is new but most of it is PoA reused.

>>717334550
When you shoot them they do pop in a small cloud, those are probably the spores Guilty Spark is talking about, and the infection forms are just carriers for it, as well as intended for the whole thing they do where they lodge themselves into your chest cavity.

It's tedious, repetitive and just goes on forever.

Cortana from 3 was worse, flood snipers? nobody asked for that shit

Just replayed CE last week after finishing all the games on the MCC (CE last because it's the one we played the most when kid) and... Honestly CE is still the best one.
It's the most militaristic one, without star wars tier drama, not a lot of Space Opera and the story and dialogue flow naturally.
It's just starship troopers, Rambo, robocop and 90s cyberpunk Anime all mixed in and it works.
The atmosphere is also sublime.
It makes you dream and imagine a different earth and alien cultures than what we got.
We only got to see yellow African cities on earth and disgusting barren "alien" worlds as the trilogy unfolded.
High charity in 2 is a fucking disappointment, as it was Requiem in H4.
And don't let me start with Reach, God, talk about uninspired.
The boomers saying Halo peaked with CE were always right, only millenials and zoomers thought it peaked with 3.
>>717334279
And then Noble team was useless, and the Spartan IV in H4 were even more useless.

>>717334689
I asked for it

Don't mind me, just the singular best halo vehicle ever conceived passing by

>>717334843
They put a ghost and a warthog into a blender and everybody knows it

>>717334920
yeah
they got peanut butter in my chocolate and turned me into an addict
haven't been able to get my fix since '04 though

>>717329176 (OP)
>Played through the game on co-op legendary with god knows how many friends
>Still haven't done it solo because i was like 10 when i got the game back in the day and got so spooked by the first flood level

>>717335173
Yeah

>>717329176 (OP)
It's fucking awful and praising it is the most reddit contrarian take I've seen on this board.
>fight through featureless corridor
>wait for door to open
>game spams a thousand flood at you
>repeat 10 times

>>717335173
>that turn at the end
kek'd

>>717334843
The only reason the Specter was cool was because of the broken physics allowing it to climb nearly 90 degree walls.

>>717335145
I feel the game gets easier when the flood show up, either because they're easier to deal with or it's when you start getting the shotgun

>>717335432
Yeah the shotgun is pretty much the answer to everything within mid range.

>>717334843
i don't even know where this first showed up. all i know is it turns up in the mythic mods for the mcc.

>>717335563
It was a one-off vehicle so its pretty infamous

>>717332793
As a boomer, this is so needlessly antagonistic you might as well be a agent provocateur.

>>717335426
The reason the spectre was cool was because it was a strafe-capable Warthog with an extra seat. Literally the fucking best.

>>717335563
It's only in Halo 2.

>>717333327
They're not that good against the Flood in General, but the reason they're bad against Rocket Flood is that Flood don't have heads to headshot. Halo 2 at least let you headshot the infection forms.
>>717333884
There's nothing stopping a Rocket Flood from shooting twice in 2 seconds.

>>717335268
>>fight through featureless corridor
>>wait for door to open
>>game spams a thousand enrmies at you
>>repeat 10 times
Sounds like every game ever

>>717335930
>There's nothing stopping a Rocket Flood from shooting twice in 2 seconds.
Grenades
Not standing still
Shooting his arm off
You just suck famalam

>>717336029
>Grenades
Saving it just for Rocket Flood means dying to other hordes.
>Not standing still
As if AI can't track you?
>Shooting his arm off
With what? The rocket launcher outranges almost everything.

>>717336212
>Saving it just for Rocket Flood means dying to other hordes.
Clearly not since you're playing on normal
>As if AI can't track you?
The rocket can't?
Sidestep it
>With what? The rocket launcher outranges almost everything.
A magnum? literally a single shot cuts it's arm off.

>>717329176 (OP)
>spent countless hours replaying the demo of Halo CE on pc over and over again as a kid
>get the full game a while later
>turns out Silent Cartographer was by far the best level in the game
At least the flood reveal was cool

>>717336329
>Clearly not since you're playing on normal
I see, you're deflecting.
>The rocket can't?
>Sidestep it
Two rockets.
>A magnum? literally a single shot cuts it's arm off.
Before it shoots you? In the middle of everything else?

>>717334689
Cortana might be my least favourite level in the whole series because it's just such a fucking CHORE. Those things eat bullets and you're just constantly scrounging Carbine ammo so you can shoot them from a safe distance

Having semi recently played it I can say it's fucking horrible lol

>>717337513
I played it on legendary like 2 weeks ago and had a blast.

RNG just makes it a bit annoying and the checkpoints+spawns associated with it can make it a full on slog. On PC it was fine, I remember xbox on a small screen w/480p it sucked.

It's kind of saying Sector 8 of FTL isn't hard because you got 4 flak cannons and a pre-ignighter w/ 2 auto reloaders.

>>717337428
Do you deny playing on normal?

>>717331084
man the radar is so fucking kino

>>717337501
I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that has a nice thing to say about that level.

>>717329176 (OP)
Played it recently again, god damn it feels tedious now.

>>717334920
That's the best part

>>717332692
>genuinely not even close. at least xen is sorta cool.

That's like the entirety of the Halo vs. Half Life critique

Bad Parts of HL/HL2
Section that focuses on spectacle/gimmick over gameplay, can be amusing the first time and sucks on replays.

Bad Parts of Halo CE/2+
The most boring corridor shootouts known to man, sucks the first time, sucks on replays.

Only Flood levels just suck since they just arent a fun enemy to fight

>>717338801
I don't play on normal, you casual contrarian.

>>717339728
It's even worse with the context of what could have been. High Charity the level is just the original second half of the Floodgate level, modified and made longer. The original plan for High Charity was going to be a massive vehicle battle map against the flood as you fought into High Charity.

Sadly it got cut alongside a jungle level on Ark that the Guardian map's theming is based on.

>>717329176 (OP)
Why do enemies keep spawning infinitely if I don't move forward? I was scared like a pussy in that level because the Flood hordes kept surrounding me

>>717340793
>The original plan for High Charity was going to be a massive vehicle battle map
thanks, I'm sad now

>>717340849
https://www.halopedia.org/High_Charity_(cut_Halo_3_level)
https://www.halopedia.org/Guardian_Forest
Couldn't find the exact source on the vehicle stuff but the rest is here. Also wow Guardian Forest really has some Talon IV vibes to it.

>>717340793
>vehicle battle map
Probably thought that having two in the same game was no fun. Which is dumb, because they were wrong.

>>717330226
i almost beat the library on heroic without dying but on the last level a shotgun flood killed me during his death animation

>>717329176 (OP)
>introduce scary enemy with great suspense and tension
>instantly over saturate the player with it to the point of tedium

>Shitting on flood with a shotgun for 20 minutes
I love it

Yes. Even some old guard of bungie thought it absurd and monotone, overly long at times when they watched a speedrun couple of yes ago.

I just realized no one has mentioned they want to fuck an elite in this thread.

>>717329712
>The Library was a proper test of pathing, endurance, and even stealth
Nonsense. It was supposed to be a VERY different level alltogether but they couldnt pull it off due to hardware constraints.
https://youtu.be/9ndZbg8Mr-Q?feature=shared&t=2167

>>717343187
I know a guy who's into pooltoys who would go wild over this body type.

>>717336182
lol

>>717329997
>I feel that's the most bullshit one and the one I think they tested the least, you can die instantly in the first second of Gravemind
Literally only a problem on the vista/mcc port. On the original Xbox the brutes can’t shoot until the hatch where truth went under closes

>>717331135
I hate that the flood did this considering the gravemind isn’t stupid and it would cost nothing to keep a few ships in reserve or send them out to other covenant planets

>>717346620
The only pieces of information Cortana gave the Gravemind is that Truth was on the way to the Ark to fire the Halo Array and that the Ark was outside the Array's range. It wasn't stupid at all, but we do have to ask how Cortana found out about the Ark, probably from the fragment of Mendicant Bias before the Dreadnought launched I imagine.

>>717346903
The Gravemind is a superintelligence created over millennia as established in the previous game. To suppose it lacked contingencies for every possible endgame scenario in Halo 3 despite having Regret and Mercy’s foreknowledge while utilizing the processing power of billions is insulting to the player. A logical course of action based on information given would have been to create reserves in case of a scenario where the halos don’t fire but the flood sustains failure in another fashion. The gambit as shown is unbelievable for a being of its capability. This isn’t wholly Halo 3’s poor writing either, Halo 2 started this problem at the end of its story.

>>717347923
There wasn't time, and the Elites were keeping the Flood contained at 05, the ship that crashes in Floodgate was the only escapee, and Rtas Vadumee was hot on its heels.

>>717347923
But the Gravemind already has backups. There's countless Forerunner facilities, the other Halos first and foremost, with dormant Flood just waiting for a containment breach. It's better to throw everything it has at hand (which isn't that much, all things considered) on the only facility that can wipe the galaxy of its backups.

>>717348230
Worth noting as well that the Gravemind's specific form is key to a lot of its processing power, that was always headed to the Ark no matter what. Flood in the early stages are basically feral, even the outbreak at 04 only started getting smarter when they had enough bodies to form the proto-gravemind.

>>717329176 (OP)
No the bits with flood rocket dudes are the worst

>>717348073
>There wasn't time, and the Elites were keeping the Flood contained at 05, the ship that crashes in Floodgate was the only escapee, and Rtas Vadumee was hot on its heels.
I can’t remember them saying this in a cutscene anywhere. If so, it’s too great a convenience that the elites could contain the flood and departing ships despite it having access to the resources of high charity. Shouldn’t the ships be able to slipspace jump moments after they exit high charity, even within it? (even though this would be unlikely as the flood would not want to destroy high charity)

>>717329245
Actually it was a palette cleanser. Nothing but shooting zombies for an hour.

People who don't like The Library simply don't like the game's mechanics. It's a pure doom style shoot gun kill alien-zombies level. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>717329321
It's a fun surprise and half the time they blow themselves up trying to shoot you because another flood gets in the way.

Yes. Felt like a solid hour of fighting the same enemies in the same copypasted boring corridors and tunnels, with additional holdout sections that kill any momentum you might have gotten trying to "speedrun" through it.
Halo CEs campaign stopped being fun after 343 Guilty Spark.

On Legendary this level was outrageous
>fucking thirty invisible elites
>oops! Flood behind you again
>that little single-spore flood just killed you
>literally had to put the sword in the game for shit like this causing ammo hemorrhage

>>717340413
Then you should know rocket flood are miniscule bullshit compared to the shit in Halo 2

>>717348601
>I can’t remember them saying this in a cutscene anywhere
It's implied for you to figure out, not outright stated, that's a sign of good storytelling. Where do you think the Shadow of Intent came from? Where do you think High Charity was at that point in time? They were still above Delta Halo and the outbreak was still ongoing. The Gravemind had two choices, direct Flood controlled ships to scatter, leaving its own form vulnerable or keep its fleet close to protect itself. We know for a fact that the Gravemind isn't infallible, many of its lines indicate it's overjoyed to be free again, it's not entirely rational, as expected of a compound mind consisting of a thousand million minds that suffered horrific agonising deaths at the hands of the Flood.
>Shouldn’t the ships be able to slipspace jump moments after they exit high charity
You're missing a crucial piece of information given to you at the start of CE.
>"As for tracking us all the way from Reach, at light speed my maneuvering options were limited."
>"We were running dark, yes?"
>"Until we decelerated. No one could have missed the hole we tore in subspace."
Ships can be tracked, on a side note that's one of the big reasons for the Cole Protocol where disengaging human ships can't make direct jumps to any human world. Besides, there were no ships inside High Charity at the end of Halo 2, they were all around it in a protracted fleet engagement because of the schism.

>>717348742
I would rather say people who don't like TaR and AotCR don't like halo gameplay, the flood are shit enemies

i feel like i'm going crazy whenever i see someone call the halo 1 pistol the "magnum"

>>717348914
The Maw was fun

>>717349436
AOTCR could use a few more health packs in he first half.

>>717349539
Halo CE Magnum

>>717349436
Truth and Reconciliation is bullshit on Legendary, I think it's the hardest level in CE, so many enemies spawning behind you and half the time the marine drop on the ship doesn't trigger

>>717349539
It's called the M6D, people assume the M stands for Magnum. It's also said to chamber magnum slugs in The Fall of Reach. I think they also called it the magnum at one point during development.

>>717349802
Not that the marines are any help

>>717349802
It's the fun and challenging bullshit unlike the annoying unfun bullshit that is halo 2 legendary

>>717349854
They can be somewhat helpful against regular enemies if only at taking fire, the first ones into the ship are almost useless because the endless spawn of cloaked sword elites kill them instantly

>>717334213
Repetitive level design and retarded autosave

>>717350008
just nade every door that opens and snipe the golden elites, i good enough enough where i could save every marine

>>717329585
2 anniversary is solid though

>>717350036
That's a problem in the entire series.

>>717329969
They hit flood close to you because they have shit aim and hit friendlies.

>>717349215
>um aksually halo 2 is harder
Yeah, so what? Rocket Flood are still bullshit.

>>717350235
Seethe more about instead of getting good

>>717350086
ODST did not have this problem

>>717350385
It still had a shitty checkpoint system.

>>717350385
>the game that is just H3 recycled again
>not having a repetitiveness problem

>>717350521
Retard

>>717350557
You're the retarded ODSTshill

>>717350608
Retarded, illiterate AND spouts buzzwords, you're hitting all the high notes.

>>717349392
>It's implied for you to figure out, not outright stated, that's a sign of good storytelling.
There is a difference between ‘good storytelling’ and leaving out crucial elements of the plot. My argument pertains to the gravemind’s slipspace jump with high charity, as he did in-game. If they had a fleet containing the infection, where was it after he emerged? They surely would have been hot on his heels if the containment was going successful.
>”As for tracking us all the way from Reach, at light speed my maneuvering options were limited."
Cool, so now that fleet that was containing high charity is forced to scatter in search of flood ships.
>Besides, there were no ships inside High Charity at the end of Halo 2, they were all around it in a protracted fleet engagement because of the schism.
No in-game proof of this statement.
I’m ignoring everything you said about the gravemind in halo 3 because it’s clear the writers didn’t understand the character and decided to have him act completely opposite to the calculated one we see in 2. This is also assuming the gravemind can feel emotions such as ‘joy’ and become weathered by millions of assembled minds, which there is no reason for assuming from an alien parasite.

>>717350662
Shut the fuck up retarded shiteater, don't bitch about repetitiveness and then bring up a lazy rehash as an example of a good game

>>717350521
ODST is a refinement of Halo 3's gameplay and provides a much better singleplayer combat loop.

>>717350767
It's a lazy, inferior rehash of H3 and is the game that killed the Halo brand

>>717350879
Nah, it's better.

>>717350930
It's a shit firefly episode with a Halo theme not different from the Halo TV show

>>717350976
Don't care, the gameplay is an objective improvement.

>>717329321
They're all insidiously spawned right around a corner so you have no idea they're coming until it's too late, plus it's hard to tell which flood has the rocket launcher from a distance or in a short amount of time. Also the rocket blast radius is huge in CE, even if they have shit accuracy they don't need to be accurate to kill or bring you down to red bars.

>>717335930
>There's nothing stopping a Rocket Flood from shooting twice in 2 seconds.
By the time he has fired the first rocket, you are already strafing him. You're in no danger from a second rocket.

How the fuck do you suck at Halo?

>>717350695
>My argument pertains to the gravemind’s slipspace jump with high charity, as he did in-game. If they had a fleet containing the infection, where was it after he emerged?
We don't see what happens on the Earth side of the portal when High Charity makes its appearance, but we know High Charity is en route in Floodgate. It still takes time to travel through slipspace, and we know High Charity is slower from the cutscene in Halo 2 when it first appears over 05.
>Cool, so now that fleet that was containing high charity is forced to scatter in search of flood ships.
This assumes a 1:1 engagement, and arguing exact numbers is asinine. If the Gravemind had equal or superior numbers, it obviously would have done that. That it didn't proves it had fewer ships, or more likely, had lost too many considering that elites are good at ship-to-ship as demonstrated by the battle above the Ark.
>No in-game proof of this statement.
Go play High Charity in Halo 2 and look around the skybox.

Your entire argument boils down to "NOOO WHY DIDN'T THE BAD GUY WIN?!" If the bad guy could win, he would have won. He didn't, he was completely fooled into believing the Array was soon to be activated and that the Ark was the only safe place to be, there would have been no point whatsoever keeping "backups" in a galaxy he thought was about to be destroyed by the Halo Pulse, even if that was an option available to him.

>>717351115
No they're not. They're all either down long hallways or in wide open clearings. You have plenty of time to spot and avoid them.

My fix for the library is that one of the floors should have had a big plasma scar/huge hole in the outer wall. You see a skybox with the Halo ring. Inside the breach, there is the wreckage of a few Covenant drop ships and pelicans. As if the covenant breached the side of the library and the marines followed, only for everyone to get ambushed and turned by the flood. You could even have lead up at the end of the prior mission Guilty Spark, maybe a pilot on comms describing the Covenant blasting open a giant structure up ring.

The other thing I’d do is introduce the (cut) flamethrower for the last third of the level.

I think this level fundamentally needs a change of scenery and to reward the punishing sections with a new weapon.

>>717350356
>can't even speak proper english
Lol.

>>717351186
>By the time he has fired the first rocket, you are already strafing him. You're in no danger from a second rocket.
This is fucking Halo: CE. There's no space to move around.
>How the fuck do you suck at Halo?
What makes you think everyone is a lifeless autist like you?

>>717351343
Your ideas are shit
>>717351365
>Still getting raped by a 24 year old game
Must suck having such inferior genes

>>717351448
Retard.

>>717350976
Oh, I see why you really hate it. You just hate Firefly, so you've invented a whole bunch of reasons to hate ODST because you're a fucking schizo.

>>717329176 (OP)
I know it's a shit level
I still love it anyway. The only level in the game with zero brakes. It is just a run and gun at its purest.
Also, i've never gotten lost on this level. Plenty of cues to help you get through.

>>717351649
ODST is dogshit for all of the reasons COD games are dogshit ontop of having a TV Firefly story

>>717351448
>This is fucking Halo: CE. There's no space to move around.
OP's pic, a corridor with similar dimensions where you fight rocket flood on two separate occasions in the level, has more than enough room to strafe rockets. You are bad. Get over it.
>What makes you think everyone is a lifeless autist like you?
What makes you think I'M good at Halo, because I'm not. I eat shit to elites on a regular basis, but strafing rockets is not hard. Rocket flood are some of the most telegraphed enemies in the entire game.

>>717351712
>ODST is dogshit for all of the reasons COD games are dogshit
Like?

>>717329321
The only time rocket flood are ever an issue for me is the first one you encounter on Two Betrayals because I always forget about him no matter how many times I play. It's such a narrow room that the splash damage hits you if you don't get away from the corner fast enough.

>>717352068
Them being lazy rehash garbage that don't innovate in a single way

>>717352165
So you must hate Halo 3, too?

>>717351295
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQQVs-7h5nY
>Library
spawns behind a horde of carrier forms that obscure your vision
spawns around a corner after you open a door
>TB
spawns around the corner of the hallway where elites and flood fight each other and has a 50/50 chance of running out early and shooting you as you round the corner, or just camping the corner he spawned on
2 human flood spawn behind cover on the twin bridge section with the banshees constantly distracting you
spawns after you pop your shields in one of the generator rooms
spawns running from around the corner in the cavern section as you get to the end of the bridge

>>717351284
>NOOO WHY DIDN'T THE BAD GUY WIN
Nice strawman.
>He didn't, he was completely fooled into believing the Array was soon to be activated and that the Ark was the only safe place to be, there would have been no point whatsoever keeping "backups" in a galaxy he thought was about to be destroyed by the Halo Pulse, even if that was an option available to him.
And “completely fooling” an intelligence of that caliber, which was shown to be calculating and near-prescient in the previous game with a simple gambit is the perfect example of how Halo 3 dropped the ball in the writing department. This was the entire purpose of my initial post, as these basic questions are swept away for a contrived plot.

>>717352276
Halo 3 wasn't a H2 rehash, retard

>>717329176 (OP)
I mean, regarding CE alone, I think Keyes is worse. Tight, narrow hallways and nigh-infinite spawning carrier forms accompanied by plasma grenades everywhere on the ground.
Regarding Halo in general, High Charity(2) and Cortana(3) are far worse than the Library. I actually like the Library for the most part, but it's main problem is it just goes on too long. By the time you think you're finished, you still have another floor to do.

>>717352312
Yes it was.

>>717352305
>shown to be calculating and near-prescient in the previous game with a simple gambit
So what you're saying is that such a mean intelligence could never be fooled by such a simple gambit as it, itself, had previously used?

>>717329176 (OP)
i find the design and ambiance to be comfy

>>717352415
Forgot a comma after game. Syntax error.

>>717352413
Compare the H2 brutes to H3 and then H3 to H3 ODST.
You have no idea what you're talking about you actual down syndrome child.

>>717329176 (OP)
Too long but I'm too retarted to hate it like some people

>>717329176 (OP)
People think it's bad because it was the hardest part of the game and they were bad at the game.

>>717352531
H3's brutes weren't a replacement for H2's, dumbass.

>>717329176 (OP)
No level design with hordes of the most boring enemy to fight in Halo. I'd say it's easily the weakest level.

>>717329176 (OP)
Not really, just run, don't stay still and you should be fine.

>>717352776
Your point retard?

>>717329176 (OP)
Yes, it was shit back then and it's shit now. Way too long copy-paste corridor level.

>>717352883
That you're fucking stupid and don't understand a thing about Halo 3's design.

>>717353060
>nothing
I expected nothing more from an ODSTshill

>>717329176 (OP)
I remember not liking it at all as a kid. I don't remember anything but my negative emotions about it.

>>717329220
Nothing bad about Halo 1-3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_cwHnQ7Xsg
Tell me you don't get chills thinking about the time you skipped school to play it.

>>717329176 (OP)
Yes
It is imo by far the worst level in the game.
The constant repetition of the same encounters and arenas is just too dull.
Had it been set in the 1nd half of the campgain I would've given up on Halo CE.

However, it's suprisingly also the hardest mission of the game.
And it's not because the Flood are a particularly challenging enemy, not at all.
But rather it's perhaps one of the most intense "battle of attrition" levels I've ever experienced in a videogame. By the final firefights I was optimizing like crazy (reloading the save multiple times, even for making small mistakes) because holy shit never since completing Resident Evil 4 on Professional have I died so many times in a shooter for running out of ammo...
And honestly that was the only positive experience I had with this mission.


>>717329271
What are some cool mods for the MCC in general?

>>717352294
>that obscure your vision
spawns around a corner after you open a door
Watch your own video. The white markings are a dead giveaway the moment he moves, and that's if you haven't seen the hulking barrel yet.
>TB
Again, easy to spot. You seem to get very distracted easily. Are you sure you're fit to drive?

>>717352796
beat legendary just running. you need to pick up the plasma grenades shotgun and rockets to clear some doors that wont open until spark cracks it. jumping helps survive when they rush you or you have danger close.

>>717351541
>>717351603
>i'm so cool being an edgy contrarian
Wow, nu-v is retarded.
>>717351854
>OP's pic, a corridor with similar dimensions where you fight rocket flood on two separate occasions in the level, has more than enough room to strafe rockets. You are bad. Get over it.
>>717352294
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQQVs-7h5nY
You want to continue lying now, faggot?
>What makes you think I'M good at Halo, because I'm not. I eat shit to elites on a regular basis, but strafing rockets is not hard. Rocket flood are some of the most telegraphed enemies in the entire game.
They're put in hard to notice places, retard. Either you won't notice them, or even if you do, you're fighting something else too.

I'm beginning to think this anon legally blind

>>717353602
>They're put in hard to notice places
No, anon. Hard for YOU to notice places. You blind, nigga

>>717353554
>NUH UH
I guarantee you that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQQVs-7h5nY&t=94s got you as a kid. You autistically memorizing all the rocket flood spawns doesn't change that fact.

>>717329176 (OP)
When I first played CE I felt like quitting multiple times during this dogshit mission.
Halo 1 overall aged like milk left out in the sun. All the other campaigns I played in the MCC were better.
>inb4 zoomer
HL is among my top 5 games of all time.

>>717330672
This guy was the shit

>>717330872
Not in campaign and if you dual wield them

>>717331123
Book lore is retarded and made for powerlevel nerds

>>717354305
I have fond memories of fighting the flood. As a kid, I thought they were cool because I liked zombie levels and beat the second half of the game in one night. All of my flood deaths were from melee attacks, carriers, and my own grenades. I struggled far more against the Covenant because my dumbass only AR for everything until obtaining the shotgun.

It wasn't until the 360 era that my sheltered self found out that people had a problem with rocket flood. Like, jackal snipers and elites pulling out swords in Halo 2 legendary I got because they were bullshit, but I never had a problem with rockets.

That's a lie. I did have a problem with them in Halo 2 because I kept giving rockets to the marines while at the same time trying to save them

>>717353668
It's funny how a lot of people get things about Halo wrong when everything is on the games, they just never pay attention to the voicelines, the cutscenes, the combat dialog, they never explore etc.

it's fun in copp

>>717329176 (OP)
been replaying halo reach on muh steam deck
im playing on heroic difficulty and every single one of my deaths has been
>walk round corner
>face to face with suicide bomber grunt
>die instantly
it keeps fucking happening

>>717356461
you down to do a couple runs?

i just recently downloaded this and plan to emulate it soon. it's been so long since i last played it i hope to god it's not as shit as people claim...

>>717356804
Random suicide grunts are the things paranoia is made out of.

>>717357219
If you haven't played CE before it's going to feel dated. The big wow moments won't hit as hard as they did back in 01.

>>717330714
>gif
sovl.... I miss halo 2 and 3 mp with the bros...

>>717334279
>Halo 2
>keep a couple of marines alive after arriving to the ring
>kill Regret only for the marines to die anyway due to a cutscene
This pissed me off so much when I first played it
>High Charity
>Shoot my way through the city with the imprisoned marines
>At a certain point, their ai literally turns off and they all jump into the abyss

>>717357365
i only remember the theme song and some moments where the grunts would beg for their lives while running. truly a haunting scene

>>717357532
The High Charity marines can actually make it to the end, they'll just be gone in the next Master Chief level no matter what.

>>717329176 (OP)
It's the rocket launcher flood that deletes you

>>717329176 (OP)
I never understood the hatred people had for that level. It wasn't amazing but it wasn't terrible yet some people act like it raped them.

We ain reedin books innishit yt boi

>>717329271
>i don't like this
>errrmmm have you tried shitting all over the artistic intent??
>woah this slaps!

>>717330352
>Gondola
It wasn't that bad just give all the nearby elites energy swords and it plays itself even on legendary

>>717330616

>worst thing to fight in a fps

Foolishness. When halo 1 came out the world was in the middle of a zombie craze. lots of videogames and movies had zombies in them. At the time this was half of what sold me on halo. The first level I played with my friend on his Xbox WAS the library and it was kino. by introducing a third faction it helped kept the game fresh on different levels. ordinarily a third faction isnt as fun, but it simply being space zombies was what made it work.

>>717332692
My friend and I beat this when I was in 5th grade and he was a year younger than I was….there was nothing wrong with it. we both were scared of the flood but had a blast. We beat the level and played a few more before I went home. It worked on our machines. (Brains) just fine.is this the power of the zoomer?

>>717333404
When I think of halo 1 I think of the first fucking level which is all corridors because it’s on a ship and it’s one of my favorite halo levels. The open areas in halo only work with the vehicles and if you had too many of those it would just be boring and seem like another open world game. Halo balances the right amount of both. They could have extended the game another 25% and kept the ratio of closes and open levels the same and it would be fine but they didn’t need twice as many open areas.