Thread 717343209

What is the point of having a bipedal walking tank that can shoot nuclear missiles? If you’re going to fire a nuclear missile hundreds of kilometres away, then why does it need to be attached to tank? Why not just fire the missile on its own?

>>717343209 (OP)
supossedly it was stealthy with railgun bullshit with rex

Rule of Cool, but mecha autists will legit pretend it's better than a sub or mach 3 fighter jet

>>717343209 (OP)
Looks cool

>>717343209 (OP)
because you can hide it wherever the fuck and its cool

>>717343209 (OP)
Because you can launch it from any place in the globe.

>>717343448
>>717343481
Missile trucks already exist

>>717343209 (OP)
I feels like this only work as a falseflag
>Plant a Rex in the country you want to invade
>profit

>>717343209 (OP)
because infantry win wars, not ordnance. a walking mech with its own nuclear deterrant makes infantry invasions and occupying ground forces possible again in the modern theater of war

>>717343520
Missile trucks can't work by themselves or traverse rough terrain.

Metal gear can traverse terrain one of those mobile icbm trucks can't. It was solely to disrupt MAD calculations since targeting known silos wasn't enough. Somewhat retarded since nuclear subs exist but at least one of them in the hands of a terrorist is scary

>>717343209 (OP)
The point of Rex was to fire an untraceable nuclear shell/missile
Shagohod was made to enable non ICBM nuclear missiles to have ICBM ranges by passing the acelaration stage to it

>>717343209 (OP)
>>717343520
The point of a "metal gear" is that it fires a nuckear warhead via railgun instead of a missile and therefore it cannot be easily detected or intercepted and its point of origin is unknown. This bypasses MAD.

The metal gear being a bipedal mech is arbitrary. And over time Kojima just forgot that the point of metal gears was the discrete nuclear delivery system.

>>717343209 (OP)
Even in the fiction the walking tank concept was only relevant for about 5 years. Even in MGS 1 it was just a last ditch attempt by a failing company to squeeze value from an outdated, failed project. It wasn't even about the mech, it was the railgun and stealth warhead. The gekko concept is actually reasonable.

>>717343209 (OP)
>what's the point of fucking mobile nuke machine
Iranian lessons weren't learned, I suppose.
>>717343520
Kek

>>717343760
Pretty sure only REX has the rail gun, anon.

It's really ironic the series that started about a walking tank glosses over it about 3 games in because they know it's stupid.
MGS 3 gave them the excuse to go back and pretend it was some big thing because Soviet Russia.

>>717343871
>The gekko concept is actually reasonable.
Other than the shit MPG and maintainence nightmare it would be

>>717343981
Literally the whole point of MGS2 is Arsenal Gear.

>>717343981
the series has only 4 games (if we cont count msx) and all 4 of them are about mg

video games are visual mediums and it looks cool

>>717343209 (OP)
The only reason it's practical is because shooting one off that close to a target bypasses all warning and interception systems, but then you just pick up on the fucking tank. Two guys in a truck with a regular nuke serves the same utility for a fraction of the cost. It's a video game, what's practical and cost effective doesn't enter into it.

>>717343209 (OP)
>What is the point of having a bipedal walking tank that can shoot nuclear missiles?
It's peak.

.

>>717343209 (OP)
It’s better if you don’t think too deeply about mgs story

>>717343919
Zeke has it too. Sahelanthropus is not a metal gear and neither is Ray.

>>717343209 (OP)
Mgs is a dogshit series.

>>717344224
>Two guys in a truck with a regular nuke serves the same utility for a fraction of the cost.
>what is sabotage

>>717344075
Arsenal isn't really a mech though, its more some giant submarine/ship/fortress thing.

>>717344358
i thought it was overrated

Not a single nuke was ever actually launched from a Metal Gear anyway.

>>717344363
Something two guys in a truck could also do for a fraction of the cost.

>>717343209 (OP)
Why not just make a bunch of AI nuclear missiles that act like subs, cruise the ocean, then once activated, moves towards it's target from the closest shore then launches itself out of the water?

You can strike down a base, a submarine or a truck. metal gear launches the thing, does a 360 and walks away. Send a strike team and they job against it because it's a tank

I think that's the logic behind it.

>bipedal

Cause it looks cool like a gundam o algo

>>717344479
>AI
You’re brown.

>>717343919
>>717344348
Hang on actually sahelanthropus DOES have the nuclear railgun, I forgot because literally nobody talks about it and instead jaber for hours about it being able to stand up like that matters (it does not) and the problems they had with the piloting module.

>>717344503
>build tank
>put icbm on it
>build hundreds for the price of metal gear

>>717344503
>Send a strike team and they job against it because it's a tank
One guy was able to destroy 25 of them with man-portable rocket launchers and chaff.

>>717344296
what is the point of giving this thing hands?

>>717344584
>implying it wasn't a simulation

>>717344479
You really want to trust AI with a nuclear weapon?

>>717344515
That was the whole premise behind most of the metal gears though. They're suppose to be autonomous.

>>717343209 (OP)
>MG Rex
The point is that the nuke doesn’t use rocket propellant and can’t be detected by radar. The Metal Gear can deployed to some random jungle or desert anywhere in the world. No silo is built, no runway necessary, just a group of cargo helicopters to drop off and subsequently pick up the Metal Gear. The Metal Gear itself can move around and defend itself if the operation calls for it.

>MG RAY
Does not fire nukes, is meant to combat other Metal Gears with superior mobility & firepower. Can destroy enemy submarines, drones, and battleships with ease thanks to its unmanned AI capabilities.

>>717344664
What's the worst that could happen?

>>717344646
So that it can grip a giant plasma sword duh

>>717344661
Why would it being a simulation mean it couldn't be done for real? The entire point of it was to see if they could recreate an actual event.

>>717343209 (OP)
It's a mobile, untraceable first strike combat platform, which can serve the role of both infantry and armored support. It's the ultimate weapon. You could hold an entire city hostage with one, and then exterminate an incoming brigade on top of it.

>>717344731
Skynet comes to mind

>>717344461
I presume it will be two guys outside of the truck, but you made me laugh so I crown you the king of tactics of /v/.

>>717344296
this is the moment where many fans realized just how much kojima lost it

>>717344730
Ray is so fucking dumb
>Let's design a giant mech to fight a weapons platform whose entire purpose is to nuke us from thousands of kilometers away, in close combat, somehow
I'm glad Ray did nothing but job the entire series, it was fucking stupid in concept and execution.

>Tank with legs... with wheels
A weapon to surpass Metal Gear

>>717344678
Prety sure only Peace Walker had autonomous nuke launchers, all others are supposed to be manned

>>717344910
And look what happened, if that was supposed to sell me on the idea then i regret to inform it ain't it chief

>>717344584
the greatest soldier to ever live

>>717343209 (OP)
gonna blow your mind here but those are precisely the kinds of questions kojima would have wanted his audience to ask themselves while playing the game...
in a world that is at a dead end in so many ways, how do we manage to keep inventing novel ways to kill? why would killing machines be made to look "cool?" why does boston dynamics make bipedal killer robot dogs instead of something more practical? why does japan, a country hit by the atom bomb, have an entire industry centered around aesthetically appealing robot weapons of mass destruction? if there weren't giant robots in the MGS games, would we still play them?

>>717345130
And the CIA proved that you can mass manufacture them if you just diddle enough third world children

>>717344920
RAY was meant to go against other nation's attempts at metal gears and defend Arsenal Gear, not go toe to toe with a overengineered monster like REX

>>717344664
Yes but I also want to be nuked

>>717345075
It's not suppose to... nor is a lot of stuff in MGS. It's the dangers of the what-if scenarios.
So yes, a bunch of nuclear missiles cruising around the ocean should not sound like a good idea, even though it's technically something that's still happening now.

>>717344584
that was virtual reality, that didn't really happen

>>717344747
because you can't restart if you die in real life you fucking moron

>>717343209 (OP)
It doesn’t shoot a missile. It shoots a nuclear warhead using a rail gun. It’s untraceable and can’t be intercepted.

What was the point of Ocelot kissing Old Snake?

>>717345626
Then why are you replying to me? im the one saying im not trusting a AI with a nuke

>>717344348
>>717344540
Neither ZEKE nor Sahelanthropus launch nukes via their railguns. ZEKE has it's nuclear payload in a missile tube on its back and Sahelanthropus' only nuclear capability is via the metallic archaea enriching the depleted uranium in its armor during self destruction.

>>717345725
ok but does it have to be a robot ?

Originally Metal Gear's were dangerous because they were bipedal tanks and relatively small. So you could walk them into the mountains or some shit and as long as they could stand they could fire. Rex was supposed to be a big deal because the rail gun would also avoid the first stage of the missile launch, making the nuke very hard to detect.

Later on in the series Kojima lost the plot by making Metal Gear Zeke.

>>717345160
Robot dog is a practical walking robot I like the point you made here though

>>717343209 (OP)
It's to make it harder to steal or sabotage
Imagine if you're an agent trying to disarm a nuke or whatever and the nuke gets up, puts on its mech suit and starts beating the shit out of you. How much harder would your job be then

>>717344296
>let's put rex head and back on a zone of the enders body
what a shit idea

How did they explain Arsenal to the public? What was the story for where it came from? They could say terrorists hijacked it, but that doesn't explain who built it and what it's for. The cleanup alone would have taken years, maybe decades. It's not something you can just sweep under the rug without any cover story.

>>717344296
>mecha games
>cannot control big mecha
shit series, and kojima is a hack

>>717345819
Cause if your making AI mechs carrying around nukes, why not just make them dedicated ... sea to air torpedoes(?) that roam one of the most hostile places on the planet for humans rather than someplace that can be easier to traverse or spot from air/space

>>717345305
The whole point of real metal gears was to not be detected until it was too late. You can take out a metal gear, even Rex, with one normal jet if you know where it is. That's why Ray is stupid.

>>717343551
>because infantry win wars, not ordnance.
Drone go buzz

>>717343331
This. It's a mobile weapons platform that's not easily detected.

Now, mind, this really only makes sense if you assume nuclear submarines don't exist in the Metal Gear universe but considering I don't think they're ever mentioned, let's just assume that's the case.

>>717345951
It's not a robot it's a tank

>>717346276
they created context lol

>>717344646
so it can get up if it falls over

>>717346050
Far easier than a truck carrying the nuke driving off at 80+mph.

>>717346504
you would still see the launch with a sub

>>717346504
Metal Gear Solid literally starts with Solid Snake being shot out of a submarine.

Wouldn't the best metal gear just look like a normal big rig truck normally? If it's a giant robot it'd stick out. Just pop the railgun out the top when it's time to fire. It can still transform into a robot for the boss fight though.

>>717346765
>optimus prime was the weapon to surpass metal gear all along

du du du DU DU DU

>>717346276
aurora borealis

>>717345951
Yes, a massive, hard-to-conceal robot so that it can be traced.

Will it revive the stealth genre now that Metal Gear and Splinter Cell are dead?

Could Rex even navigate a jungle without leaving a clear path of destruction in it's wake? It seems like it'd be knocking down trees left and right, or at least shredding the canopy.

>>717348185
Fuck no.

>Unc still playing games with no parry button o algo

>>717343551
>a walking mech with its own nuclear deterrant
so a country being invaded by a giant mech killing people with conventional weapons won't nuke the aggressing country because there's a nuke on the mech?
sounds like retarded logic anon.

>>717348676
>giant

Why does people think Rex is a giant?
It’s only 13m tall.

The point was to have some cool thing to fight and that there would be some bizarre situation where legs would be better than treads. Kojima is not a guy with actual military experience, the most it gets is military consultants for the sake of verisimilitude.

As a similar example, in COD MWII(the 2022 one) the final battle takes place in Chicago, not because there's a big ass invasion of the US but because they wanted to have the Chicago skyline in the background and show everybody's favorite aurafarming operators infiltrating from the Chicago river, and thus the main villain somehow set up a cruise missile launcher on the top of a skyscraper and is using it to launch said missile from Chicago at Washington DC.
There's zero reason if it had to be fired from land they couldn't have picked some fuck-off cornfield to do it vs the third largest city in the US other than "it looked cool."

If there's no real coherent reason under scrutiny it's because it probably sounded cool to Kojima at 3 AM in the morning.

The rule of cool above all. Besides, mobile artillery is basically what rules battlefields now. Look what HIMARS/ARCHER is doing in Ukraine. You'd imagine a machine with even greater mobility to pose an even greater threat.

>>717348185
It will be what MSGV inspired to be, maybe it will but we dont know anything about it except that he's working on it.

>>717348676
MAD still applies internationally. im saying MAD countries have disincentive to nuke the troop movements because metal gear can fire back

>>717347070
why are there so many italians on /v/

Lamest Metal Gear?

>>717353462
THE UNENLIGHTENED MASSES

>>717344296
this thing predates Rex and is practically Rex if he Gundam?

Anyone have that Codec call from MGS3 of SIGNIT explaining that Metal Gear's are dumb and impractical?

>>717343209 (OP)
The most hilarious thing is that inadvertedly Metal Gear predicted the future with the Man Made Disease called FoxDie. We don't need nukes anymore the most deadliest weapon on this Earth right now is man made diseases.

It's funny because as the series played out the Metal Gears started to become worthless even the final Kojima directed Metal Gear game was about the parasite and disease that crippled the main villain of the franchise. No robotic bipedal tank anything. Metal Gear became a famous name to recognize the franchise but even within it the Metal Gears became worthless contraptions.

>>717343209 (OP)
>>717343209 (OP)
>>717343209 (OP)
>>717343209 (OP)
>everyone mentioning Rex
>when there was 3 Metal Gears before it without a rail gun

What now cocksuckers?

>>717354896
It also doesn't work unless powered by a psychic child and only exists as a marketing ploy by Skull Face.

>>717346276
You underestimate how STUPID humans are. Look at everyone here. The only humans care about is...

Food
Porn
Sex if they can have it
Video games and movies and such to be entertained

That aside the Earth can be ravaged into ruin. Humans are stupid animals like that. You give them food and porn they will masturbate themselves into killing their brain cells. One more time Humans ARE Stupid.

I can't wait until our Rich Jewish Elite unleash the next step of their plan to torment humanity with robotics and ai. Once that's perfected humans will finally be tortured in a more efficient way. Humans are dumb and NEED to be forced to live uncomfortable lives.

>>717343649
Ray is basically a nuclear sub but better.

>>717344646
imagine the handjobs

should i play these games in chronological order or release order

>>717356313
Release order.

>>717344008
Like every other piece of military equipment

>>717346318
Did you forget the Rex vs Ray fight?

>>717348185
This is literally a new mg game

>>717356352
starting with which game

>>717343209 (OP)
the idea was to keep the nuclear launch platform from being able to be targeted
I mean, the games explain this multiple times over so

>>717356589
the first one, retard.

>>717346428
and all the ground with no troops is still owned by the 'kraine even with the drones on 'uzzia's side

>>717344584
The Ray isn't the nuclear Metal Gear it's the one designed to take out all the Wish.com Rex derivatives and to protect Arsenal Gear with the MP version.

>>717356646
if you mean the one that looks like oregon trail and has no actual plot I was going to skip it.

>>717356589
Metal fucking Gear

>>717356748
uh that's an arcade game right? I don't have any arcades near me.

>>717355353
Ah yes, La Creatividad had predicted the biological weapons.

Honestly all the "reasons" to have a Metal Gear sound more like excuses to have a Metal gear.

>>717343209 (OP)
>Railgun shoots warhead instead of leaving a missile that can be tracked and intercepted
>plausible deniability of the US Gov't when a tactical nuke glasses some sandniggers or blocniggers because Rex was stealth deployed on foreign soil then scooped up before investigations begin
>Pentagon party on epstein's island

>>717344540
>and instead jaber for hours about it being able to stand up like that matters
Holy shit is mgs fanbase this retarded? Its literally explained in-game that it shouldnt be able to stand up, hence the requirement for psychically-attuned pilot

>>717343448
>>717343481
Subs are superior in every way

>>717357075
What is Ray

>>717343209 (OP)
because Hal is a fucking weeb and by letting him build a cool walking robot he glanced over the whole "armed with a nuclear missile" part of the construction

>>717346339
Yeah, the point in original gears was to be undetectable nuke launch platform. However by mgs4 most countries knew about MGs and raced for their own chinesium versions. As a part of good or bad storytelling, these were built on executive orders of "wow huge mech so cool build us one", entirely missing the point of nuke platform and being essentially slow and unwieldy rank-mech. Hence Rays, that are intended to counter these wannabe tanks. On one hand plausible for the rule of cool, on the other hand made entirely obsolete by building AT tanks.

>>717357067
>Holy shit is mgs fanbase this retarded?
It used to be cool but then the fags, normalfags browns, and trannies shit it up
Anyway Sahalanthropus is a piece of shit and is Huey's greatest failure. Strangelove truly was the brains of the MG program until Madnar had to pick up the pieces

>>717356589
Just start with Metal Gear Solid for the PS1 and go through the briefing files and previous missions info in the main menu
It's technically the third game in the series but it heavily retcons the original two games which weren't released in English until 2006 anyway.

Would Metal Gear have gone to space eventually, had the series continued?

>>717346695
And how would you not detect a launch if you strap a similar launch platform to 2 legs? Does it add a 50% stealth multiplier per leg or something?

METL GRR????

>>717357465
Metal Gear Raxa

>>717343347
Pretty much what it is, rule of cool. If you want stealth in modern times, you are either under possible detection, which means some sort of stealth sub, or you are above possible detection, which would probably be some high altitude BS. You 100% are not on the surface of the planet stomping around.

>>717357556
It's the railgun that makes it stealthy, but then we're back to the fact that you don't need a robot for that and could just put it on a sub.

>>717343209 (OP)
shagohod was made during a time when ICBM's had to be in either massive launch facilities, meaning its a stationary target, or transported using huge vehicles that can't get around the siberian wilderness
like you are not getting picrel through anything undeveloped
shagohod was meant to get around this weakness, basically having a completely mobile launch system that can hit anywhere on earth, and has the ability to traverse terrain that other vehicles cannot
the soviets IRL actually solved this issue by eventually putting ICBM's on trains
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-23_Molodets
rex was meant to launch a nuclear attack with no detectable launch, because satellites can easily pick up a launched missile

Was the mgs3 mini nuke launcher thing real?

>>717358072
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)
yeah

>>717358072
Yes, the US developed portable nukes but the issue was the nuke's blast radius being far larger than the range of the launcher

>>717358165
>>717358180
Holy shit

>>717353462
To think the only reason Armstrong used Excelsus is because Sam died
the brazilian samourai was worth a billions dollars machine

>>717357448
Yeah, that's a major plot point that's not directly spelled out. Nice of you to notice. Huey was essentially self-important autist with inflated ego who loved to do advanced robotics, but didnt understand the situations his robots were going to be used in at all. Hence the juxtaposition with him and Medic who understood the battlefield but not the tech. Even Sahelantrophus, his masterpiece, was essentially an engineer's wet pipe dream, powerful on paper but absolutely impossible to field as anything but one-off project.

>>717358180
>but the issue was the nuke's blast radius being far larger than the range of the launcher
no it wasn't, the explosive mass was laughably small for a nuclear weapon (20 tons of TNT equivalent)
you'd easily survive being 1km from the explosion, though you would likely succumb to radiation sickness and have a nice nuclear tan (sunburn)

>>717358238
In Vietnam DARPA had developed 'suitcase' nukes that SOG teams had on them during deployment behind enemy lines

>>717343209 (OP)
Missile launching installation are a pain in the ass given they’re stationary and can be targeted easily by anyone that wants to attack them. All you really have to do is ensure that the hatch doesn’t open and then it’s more or less useless. Having a mobile one ensures that you can launch anywhere.

>>717358072
even the hover crafts the enemy uses are real, though they were only a proto type and never entered full production

>>717358573
kinda yeah

>>717358441
This. Davy Crockett was a classical example of "big numbers good (but not really)". Since tanks rarely drive right next to another and explosion dissipates with order of magnitude per distance, it wss essentially just an inaccurate anti-tank weapon that was far too expensive for single tank but in practice couldnt destroy multiple tanks and was far more difficult and expensive to deploy.

did the military advisor guy from konami go with kojima?

>>717358916
it was never intended to be an anti tank weapon, in fact most soviet medium or heavy tanks at the time, provided they were equipped with overpressure protection NBC systems, would shrug off its explosion at around 100 meters, of course the crew would be concussed to shit, but they would live
>t. has done too much research on the topic of nuclear weapons vs tanks because I have a personal project

>>717343209 (OP)
it's cool

>>717343209 (OP)
Anime and Video Game logic by nature is just "rule of cool" but cranked to 11, now combine that with Kojima's military & cinema autism.

>>717358321
You can't even call that thing a one off, it was shit from the planning stages. It's top heavy as fuck and has the clearance of a small sky scraper. It's not even functional unless you get the mentally fucked up psychic child soldier to do all the literal heavy lifting. It makes the F-35 look budget friendly in comparison. Huey is an ideas guy at best.

Sokolov, Granin, Strangelove, and even his own son Hal tower above him and that's not a cripple joke. Big Boss should've put a bullet in him in PW. The tech Strangelove alone could've fielded for Outer Heaven would've made Big Boss, Miller, and his mercs a super power on the global stage.

>>717355068
>If you ask me, it's got to be a joke. Not only is making a tank walk on two legs a technical nightmare, but there's no point in making a walking tank to begin with. Putting legs on a tank would raise its clearance, increasing its frontal projection area. It'd also be less stable. Suppose the legs help the tank travel bad roads... I don't see the logic in that. Isn't that what treads are for? I mean, anyone who'd seriously consider making a thing like that has got to be a wacko. ...Come to think of it, there was a guy in the States who wrote a paper on that subject. What was his name... Emerson? Heinrich? ...Something like that; I don't really remember. 'Course, no one took that seriously.

Wasn't Outer Heaven in a jungle? Makes sense for that since your base could get bombed by airstrikes and have your silos destroyed. No MBT could handle the trees and swamps of that biome and by the time you get jets there the things already gone so you have to rely on grunts to fight that thing, and the railgun launching the warhead means your enemies won't even be able to react with counter ICBM tech. So it makes sense for MG1, the rest of the games seem to just shove Metal Gears in because it's in the title.