Thread 717356176

Should Sonic games have a combat system?

>>717356176 (OP)
Yeah, sonic games should play like sonic vids on newgrounds.

>>717356176 (OP)
Sonic should have a gun and say fuck. Most of you don't understand that it's a mature Japanese series like Dragon Ball

No, Sega has tried since Heroes and it ruins every Sonic game that does. People play Sonic games to run through stages, not stop and fight.

I never understood why sonic never had a parry or dodge system of some sort
>2d sonic
>press a direction and the parry button when you would get hit to bounce off enemy/whatever without harm
>or
>press a dodge button to pass through enemies, so long as you time it right
>3d sonic
>the exact same thing
it works thematically and is way better than the nonsense lockon

>>717356463
>no one has found the holy grail yet so we should stop trying
Blasphemer!

Frontiers was such fucking shit, and you faggots that made it a success should be ashamed of yourselves. It's so obvious that the only 3D Sonic formula of any worth is the Adventure series, but you prickos just can't admit that, can you?

>>717356514
Didn't they literally add that in the Frontiers game?

>>717356650
I don't think so, while I didn't play it I have looked at some reviews of it and I never heard any mention of it.

>>717356514
Sonic 3 had the insta shield

>>717356941
Oh yeah, forgot about that. But still seems kinda awkward compared to a universal button or something. I mean the genesis had 3, why do all of them just jump, you know?

>>717357112
>why do all of them just jump
They did that to make the games easier

>>717357209
It was a rhetorical question

>>717356463
Only limp wristed low T whitoids have a problem with the combat in Heroes, I've noticed.

>>717357436
>Only white people have a problem with consuming shit, I've noticed.

>>717356554
>you faggots should be ashamed of yourselves
>SA2 is a good game

>>717356176 (OP)
no

>>717356176 (OP)
Yes.

>>717356176 (OP)
maybe

>>717356176 (OP)
I don't know.

>>717357436
exceedingly melanated post

>>717357436
It's bad.
>SA1 and 2
>attack enemy
>it dies

>Heroes
>enemies have health bars
>some need to be stunned, flipped over, or have armor
>all have to be defeated for gates to open

>>717356941
"Insta shield" is poor translation, it's an offensive ability.

>>717359553
>attack enemy
>it doesn't die because it has a shield

>>717359728
It gives you iframes (defensive) and makes your hitbox bigger (offensive)

>>717356176 (OP)
fuck no

>>717356176 (OP)
No.

>>717356514
Parrying being in every single game regardless of genre is really only a recent thing. It's not like in the 90s any games had it. You're expected to avoid damage by just jumping over things.

>>717356176 (OP)
only the spinoffs

>>717356176 (OP)
Sonic was never good

>>717356650
>>717356845
Frontiers had a combat system with skills, skilltrees, level ups for defense, attack and shit like that. You had to rely on these skills, even as super Sonic, because the damage was waaaay higher. It fucking sucked.

>>717356554
it was fun

>>717363138
Why do you think that?

>>717356845
Yes, and it was fucking stupid, just like your idea. Not everything needs a goddamn parry button.
Even worse was when spiderman 2 had one. The guy literally has a 6th sense that warns him of impending danger, so why wouldn't he just avoid it?

>>717356554
The game was open world adventure with funny spin mechanics

>>717363270
Solid sense of speed and lots of fun content.

>>717359553
Combat in Heroes sounds more interesting when you put it that way lol

>>717363270
NTA, but I found the gameplay loop for optional content solid, completing all the challenges gets you the map and the rails, unlocking the map shows you where everything is, unlocking all the rails makes getting all of the collectables fun because there's no 'right' way to do any of it. Rail launching is also just a fun mechanic.

No and the faggots that want it are dumb as hell. The enemies should just be for points/bar fillers or things to launch off of and should take no more than a spin dash or bounce to kill them.

>>717356554
Doesn't matter what you think. Frontiers' success is why anyone now has a sliver of respet for the series besides the movies. We would still be in the trenches if Frontiers sold and reviewed poorly.

>>717356554
Shadow gens is just an adventure game with boost

>>717356176 (OP)
Frontiers' combat wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't so automated and non-interactive. I like that it's the only combat system out of all the games that actually made you feel like you're fighting the way Sonic would fight, running circles around enemies to conjure wind and zipping around the place. And unlike past games, you weren't forced to interact with it most of the time anyway.

>>717356176 (OP)
No.

>>717356176 (OP)
if you want sonic with mandatory combat sections, go play Spark the Electric Jester 3.
All the fun of 3d sonic running, but then they tack on this godawful combat system

>>717356176 (OP)
I would very much enjoy a hack and slash variant.

>>717356176 (OP)
nope

>>717356317
Holy fucking BASED. Stole the words right out of my mouth.

>>717356554
Correction: Sonic Frontiers is fun but the Final Horizon DLC was absolute dogshit aside from the Cyberspace stages.

>>717371559
The horizon islands where the most fun in the game. When i play a game I want to be beaten, raped, tortured, eaten, and killed.

>>717372123
It wasn't THAT hard

>>717372473
I was more sadistic than difficult. The segment where you need to do a cyloop on a single tiny block hovering above nothing, and the boss qte's being instant death if you hesitate for even a second come to mind.

>The segment where you need to do a cyloop on a single tiny block hovering above nothing
That was fun and not that hard. Just let go off the stick if you hit the dash panel and Sonic will stop on a dime.
>and the boss qte's being instant death if you hesitate for even a second come to mind
I had more trouble with figuring out what to do in that boss fight because the game never explained that you can switch your targets with the side step.

>>717372123
Now that I remind I did have fun with the islands (some of the platforming sections for Sonic were kinda ass) but I wish the DLC characters were more fleshed out and be played out of the DLC itself. The boss rush was actually trial and error horseshit and the final boss made me rage quit because the game barely makes it clear how you're supposed to get rid of the tube off the boss. I even looked at guides and still never got past that part and just quit.

>>717356176 (OP)
Of course they can. Like with anything else it just needs to be designed well. Sonic can fit into multiple generes.

>>717372123
Now that I recall I did have fun with the islands (some of the platforming sections for Sonic were kinda ass) but I wish the DLC characters were more fleshed out and be played out of the DLC itself. The boss rush was actually trial and error horseshit and the final boss made me rage quit because the game barely makes it clear how you're supposed to get rid of the tube off the boss. I even looked at guides and still never got past that part and just quit.

heroes might be better for combat, all this mashy shit from frontiers sucks.

>>717356176 (OP)
nah

>>717356176 (OP)
>speed through fun platformer stage
>”fuck you, you have to grind to a halt and beat up these robots”
The fuck is this franchises hard on for combat sections anyways. They suck in most platformers but especially so for a a series like sonic

>>717374973
>The fuck is this franchises hard on for combat sections anyways
it looks cool

>>717356176 (OP)
hell yeah

>>717361695
but it would have been much more fun than what we got in the 90's

>>717371264
I watched every second of this.

>>717377889
wrong.

>>717378710
it would have been more fun because sonic right now is just about memorizing level layouts. Being able to go with the flow and do things on reaction would be better.

>>717356554
After 24 years of not releasing new Adventure style games, i don't think they're going to go back to that style.

>>717371264
Frontiers and Shadow Gens bosses are the only thing that ever comes close to this.

>>717379330
Little by little we'll get there.

>>717378826
>he can't into proactive gameplay

>>717363712
>NOOOOO SONIC SHOULDN'T USE ENEMIES AS SPRINGBOARDS OR BE ABLE TO DOSGE POINT-BLANK ATTACKS
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hehGY3b3sxU

>>717380018
>he's defending the single most autistic level design scheme possible

>>717377889
Not really Spark the Electric Jester 2 was trivialized because you can make yourself invincible with the push of a button.

>>717380829
why not just tie it to an animation and force you to time it right...?

>>717381336
How does that fix the issue? You made it a little harder but it's still the solution for too many things.

Reminder that Sonic Frontiers is the best-selling Sonic game after the original trilogy.

>>717380329
you are too autistic to understand a simple level design philosophy?

>>717381523
>>717381889
proof /v/ can't into level design

>>717382103
Ad hominum.

>>717378826
>bitching about memorization in 2025
Getting good at clearing levels requires learning them, which in turn requires memorization. Human input is never frame perfect, this creates varieties in how the level is played which you'll need to react to... It's not a rhythm game

>>717382328
playing games shouldn't necessarily require study and homework. I prefer rally to nascar.

>>717382754
you might be retarded

>>717382754
What fucking homework are you seeing? There's no outside shit you have to see. You just have to play the game enough.

>>717382754
Oh man now I feel sorry for you. If that's what you consider study and homework...

>>717356514
>2d sonic
>press a dodge button to pass through enemies, so long as you time it right
That's called rolling. Sonic can already do that. You press down while moving and he kills enemies in the process.
Why is rolling such a hard concept for some people to grasp when it comes to Sonic. Every time I see gameplay footage of somebody critiquing/offering improvements for 2D Sonic games, they rarely ever roll.

>>717356554
>and you faggots that made it a success should be ashamed of yourselves
Actually, Japanese audiences having an interest in Frontiers is what boosted its sales into being a success.
This happens every once in a blue moon. I don't expect it to happen again with Frontiers' sequel. Realistically, Sega will have heightened expectations that won't be immediately met, causing them to dial things back once again.

>>717385129
Do you think Sonic Team will try to make Frontiers 2 appealing to western fans with momentum physics or will they try to appeal to Japanese players by making the game less Sonic-like?

>>717386230
I think Frontiers 2 will feature Sonic Team's latest try at momentum-centric gameplay (as Kishimoto had already stated interest in attempting that even before Frontiers' expansion released) while also maintaining the same "structure" Frontiers had (open maps, fighting bosses in open areas, etc.) in an attempt to attract the same audience/sales.
At the same time I think the game's presentation will be more traditionally "Sonic", as that was a major criticism Frontiers received on release, which will end up causing disinterest in Japanese audiences to a certain degree.

It'll probably sell well since open world stuff is easy normalfag bait, but I don't expect it to surpass Sega's expectations like what happened with Frontiers' initial sales.

>>717387076
That sounds like a good game to me. I would be happy if Sonic Team makes something like that

>>717356176 (OP)
lmao no

>>717356176 (OP)
Nothing more than homing attack and bouncing/rolling

>>717388906
It could be a good game if they nail the execution on rolling physics.
Unfortunately, they won't. They seem to be incapable of properly implementing mechanics like that no matter how many times they try. I remember Frontiers' rolling physics in the cyberspace stages being literally broken, and the spindash they added later being a reskinned boost. It's like they just eyeball footage from older games, do the most surface-level job possible, and then call it a day.

>>717391381
I think proper physics wouldn't work well in Frontiers and that's why the spindash work like boost with a moon jump

Here's what I'd do if I owned the Sonic franchise. First I'd add full on DBZ fighting. Like POW POW BOOM CRASH PSHHEEW BOOM BOOM and then I'd straight up steal from mariokart world and make the areas between levels to intermission race stages. Then when you run past girls in skirts, their skirts blow up and show their panties and time slows down burnout 3 crash cam style while the camera focuses on the butt. I'd make set pieces like Shadow vs Sonic, but Sonic has to lead him out of the city like Goku vs Vegeta and then they fight like PSHEEEWW POW POW BOOOOOM PSSSSHHHEEWW FWEEEEEEEE. and the terrain would be totally destructable in cubic pieces like rampage so fights can take buildings down.

>>717392015
that sounds retarded and brown. go play BT3 instead

>>717391626
That's a weird thing to say considering "rolling physics" have been in Frontiers since release (e.g., the drop dash and rolling in the cyberspace stages), they're just implemented really badly because Sonic Team is incompetent. Hence them implementing the spindash as a reskinned boost for the expansion.
Amusingly that's the best they could do despite people sending Kishimoto footage of both fan projects and even literal mods for Frontiers itself that show off improved rolling and air physics.

>>717392178
Shut up fans don't mean shit to me. Only perfection.

>>717392215
That's true but the level design isn't built with rolling in mind. That's why the rolling physics feel so janky and unpolished as the game isn't centered around them.

>>717356176 (OP)
Scrap it from the mainline games, repurpose it for Shadow or some other spinoff.

>>717392547
Rolling physics are janky and unpolished even in games where the level design *is* built with them in mind (see Generations and Forces).
Again, Sonic Team are just incompetent.

>>717391626
There's mods for Frontier that add proper rolling physics and everything and it feels great. The problem is that Frontiers' world isn't really designed with them in mind at all so you can't really utilize them to their fullest potential. I still prefer them over the vanilla game though.

>>717356176 (OP)
Sonic doesn't need that shit

>>717356176 (OP)
Yes, but the one in Sonic 1 is sufficient

>>717394587
This

>“Sonic Frontiers deserves more hate”
You people practically spend every day of your lives looking for new reasons to be mad at this game and haven't shut the fuck up about it since it launched 3 years ago

>proper rolling physics
Never going to happen. There are simply no game developers in the industry (or Sonic Team generally) competent enough to implement a bespoke character controller from scratch.

>>717356176 (OP)
even shit bing bing wahoo games have combat

>>717356554
TRVKE

>>717396612
>“Sonic Frontiers deserves more hate”
>1 of 1 match

>>717396798
Just check the floor normal and add speed if the player is moving downhill

>>717397856
That's data-driven and modern developers only understand user-experience-driven nodeslop.

>>717398412
I had to double take at this... Perhaps this is what's really happening.

>>717356176 (OP)
Yes.

>>717356176 (OP)
I can take it or leave it.

How the fuck did you fags let Frontiers get a majority 7s, 8s and 9s? Deserves nothing but 5s and below.

>>717402686
if sonicfags had any actual control over the scores their games got, do you really think they'd have let the series become the gaming industry's punching bag for several years?
retarded

>>717356514
Do soulstrannies need to have parry system in every game?

no

PINGAS

>>717405145
you're late
the train is late

Sonic has so many abilities and techniques. How is he supposed to utilize any of it without a combat system? That's a waste.

>>717405394
Make a fighting game spin-off.

>>717405394
>How is he supposed to utilize any of it without a combat system?
Why does he need to. Most of those suck outside rolling and bouncing.

>>717407092
>Why does he need to
Nothing wrong with having multiple ways to attack.
>Most of those suck outside rolling and bouncing
They’re all cool. Literally look at them.

>>717407825
>Nothing wrong with having multiple ways to attack.
There is if they only accomplish interrupting the flow of the game. Which most of them do.
>They’re all cool. Literally look at them.
I've seen them, especially Frontiers'. And "looking at them" is part of the problem, you're just watching Sonic play out some animation as you do nothing for a few seconds. It sucks and contributes heavily to my first point.

>>717405394
Easy. Just make Sonic Musou games.