So does Kriea want me to be a Jedi or Sith?

She wants you to make your own damn decision.

>>717364328 (OP)
She wants (You) to breed her, you simpleton.

You should stop playing that game. You'll only be disappointed.

Just bee yourself

>>717364328 (OP)
Kreia hates organized religion so neither.

>>717364328 (OP)
Fuck Kriea in the ass with her dumb shitty opinion

imo both but being a gray jedi in the game is shit.

>>717364328 (OP)
>>717364562
Why does every Kreia thread become a r34 one?

>>717364562

>>717364328 (OP)
She wants you to cast off the narrow minded dogma of both, realize the Force is some sort of living entity enforcing its own will upon the galaxy through its users, and to use the Force as a tool to kill the Force.

>>717364328 (OP)
She just want to juggle light sabers on your face in one of the most annoying/obnoxious boss fights ever.

>>717364856
>Fuck Kriea in the ass
Don't mind if I do

>>717365029
we must kill god fellow angstheists

>>717364328 (OP)
She wants you to rebuild the Jedi order without all the baggage the previous council had

>>717365490
Her plot involves deafening the galaxy to the Force, exterminating Force sensitive people who fail to sever their connection.
After you beat her ass and might makes right her, that's what she prefers you do, but she personally wants no Jedi.

>>717365950
>>717365490
Kreia is one of those rare examples of setting up a 'no-lose' scenario villain very well
She was genuinely happy with either outcome

If she successfully killed the Exile, her plan works - the Force dies slowly and the Galaxy will gain its independence from the unknowable, arbitrary whims of a vague energy field.

If she is defeated by the Exile, she dies knowing she's trained the greatest apprentice she's ever had who they themselves are living proof life can survive - even prosper - without the Force and even if they restore the Jedi Order they will inevitably be based on the teachings she helped foster in the Exile.

>>717364528
But no matter what decision you make, you're wrong. You literally cannot win with her.

Kotor 2 is a Star Wars game for people who hate Star Wars

>>717364328 (OP)
just be urself

>>717366429
but everyone hates Star Wars now

>>717366429
Yet it's still the best piece of SW media. Really makes you think.

>>717366263
>Kreia is one of those rare examples of setting up a 'no-lose' scenario villain very well
>She was genuinely happy with either outcome
naw she's a lose/lose villain, dramatic irony is what does her hopes in at the end of things. because the setting is the old republic and we've seen the modern republic, she failed. she neither destroyed the force or managed to pass on her lessons to the new generation. she was just another cog in the force's machine, someone who spread death and destruction under the dark influence of the very thing she hated.

>I am not a sith
>part of the sith triumverate
>trayus academy is filled exclusively with sith

>>717366920
>'Sith' is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe. For you… it is different

>>717365950
She's not serious about trying to kill the Force. She coerces you into coming to Malachor because she's suiciding by cop. She doesn't want to be bonded to the Exile for the rest of her life, she's taught what she's got to teach, eradicated the major threats of the Sith Triumvirate, had her revenge on the Jedi Council and now she wants to die. She threatens the Exile's life to do it because that's the way she is: a Sith Lord who appreciates the value of murder as a tool to get people to do what you want.

I'm playing Kotor 1 using a Sniper Shot rifle squad. Current party is:

>PC w/ high INT + DEX, Scoundrel/Sentinel
>HK-47
>Mission

It's surprisingly fun, you're relying on the Sniper Shot's stun chance which uses your INT modifier, so all level up attribute points for all characters are going into INT. This gives you crowd control and damage, since stunned enemies give bonus sneak attack damage. Sniper Shot has a mediocore chance to stun but since the whole party is focused on INT and using Sniper Shot the stuns (and crits) come often. Then you change target priority depending on who you manage to stun, if there's melee/grenadier enemies etc. All my guys are using rifles because they're feat starved so can't really afford Two Weapon Fighting, plus rifles have higher chance to crit than blater pistols. I've also got a tonne of skill points to let me fully repair HK and do all the other shit in the game I never usually bother with.

I have a sneaking suspicion this build wont work at all in Kotor 2 because of enemy saves increasing through level scaling so give me your best fun novelty build ideas when I get round to it.

>>717367027
>the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe.
Sounds like cope to me, given her incredibly Sith-esque actions.

>>717364909
You try discussing a woman without talking about how much you want to fuck her then.

>>717366429
I used to be a massive Star Wars fan.
After seeing how Star Wars turned out, and how this bad end was inevitable, I hate most of Star Wars.
The original 1977 movie is great.
The parts of the prequels that are critical of the Jedi are good - particularly Episode II.
Kotor II is a pretty solid game for making you think about the contrived shitty morality of Star Wars as it was codified in Empire Strikes Back.

>>717367027
>It is not what I believe.
what she believes curiously only attracts sith students.

>>717366334
Except you always can, when she loses influence over one of your actions she will always gain more than she lost if you justify your thought process to her.
She wants you to be your own man instead of following dogma, essentially.

Who gives a shit what Kreia thinks
>influence lost!
Who cares

>>717367470
>influence gained!

>>717367470
Influence Gained: Kreia

>>717366429
I hate star wars.

>>717367401
>>717367229
The Sith Code, which you should remember from 1, is ultimately about relying on your Force given powers to "set you free".

She agrees with the Sith on the matter of personal power. She doesn't agree with them on their slavish devotion to the Dark Side as the be-all-end-all of that power. This is why she did so poorly with Nihilus and Sion, they're literally only still standing because the Force is propping them up.

>>717367686
How come when she leaves you to carry out her dastardly plan, she returns to calling herself Darth Traya rather than continuing as Kreia?

>>717367229
Or maybe you are one of those ‘people’ who need everything to be in black and white? But do not despair, most people on this planet need labels to understand even basic concepts

>>717367686
the irony being that she herself also relies wholly on the force to get anything done, including passing on her teachings to the exile.

She wants you to be a Jedi but not blindly follow their dogma. If you go down the Dark Side, she says she's disappointed in you and you're a failure.

>>717364562
She has no eggs

>>717367470
filtered

>>717367804
Theatrics to help convince you that this isn't another test, lecture or subversion. You either do what she wants one final time or people will suffer.

>>717364909
The drawings from that artist are very list provoking.
Also, she 100% got raped by Sion and her bitchy attitude all through the game is because he was bad at sexing her.

I was sort of surprised to find out the HK factory was cut content because that was a lot of voiced dialogue in there

>>717367353
There's nothing contrived about a maniquean morality, system.
It's designed that way.

>>717368258
I think they genuinely got rugpulled by lucasarts to get the game out for christmas. A lot of the cut content is stuff that would easily have made its way into the game after an extra month or two of work.

>>717368342
>There's nothing contrived about a contrived morality, system.
>It's contrived that way.

>>717368258
How much of it is actually official and how much is stitched together by modders from existing dialogue and shitty amateur voice actors?

>>717364328 (OP)
I dont know. I left her on the ship.

>>717368023
Awesome, more consequence free creampies.

>>717369192
Isn't all fiction contrived by that logic?

>onderon has fallen
>billions of cantina patrons must die

>>717369535
Is there any canon/official concept art of what she looks like without the hood/veil?

>>717369273
nah, it's obviously not anything stitched together.
you have 3 hk50s doing a three stooges bit the whole way through

>>717366429
so should i get into it? have it even on my phone from the free epic giveaway
i never really like SW, loved the og movies for the impressive effects at the time that still shit on most of VFX/SFX of today but the story was so fucking meh

>>717364328 (OP)
she prefers douchy things, hates psychotic things and also hates goody stuff.

>>717364909
>>717368205
He's singehandly carrying Kreia r34, I love it.

>>717369501
Yea, and some of it is well contrived.

>>717369630
i think they just have empty eyesockets

>>717364328 (OP)
Is Kreia the most realistically written woman in video gaming?

>>717369732
yeah it's a good game until it completely falls apart at the end. easy too if you've never played any CRPG. just gotta know that attack is actually accuracy because it means the bonus to your attack roll, with damage being called damage. if you can get the restored content mod on the mobile version you should do that

>>717369737
She also just likes it when you listen to her, "Yes Mom" will get you far with Kreia

>>717369818
if I'm recalling correctly, normal Miraluka have skin over their empty eye sockets, but Visas has spooky gouged looking holes there because of Nihilus torturing her

>>717366429
Exactly, and that's what makes it good.

>>717369923
shes got a pretty rational reason for wanting to destroy da force so i doubt it

>>717369947
i have it on PC too, will see if i can get the mod working on phone as its kinda comfy to play on the phone
ty

>>717369630
The only depiction we really get is from the short comic 'Unseen, Unheard', which shows Katarr getting destroyed by Nihilus and how Visas was recruited. This is her after it's destroyed, but keep in mind Miraluka don't have eyes, just sockets with flesh over them.

>>717366816
Vergere passes on her lessons to Jacen. (LotF is non-canon)

>>717369947
>restored content mod
does this actually make the game less easy? even on the hardest difficulty the game is easy, it's painfully easy when you max out the cheese.

>>717369750
Dude has talent and we're all happy for it.

>>717370184
>Jacen Solo learns Kreia philosophy
>turns super evil

>>717364328 (OP)
she wants you to think for yourself
>average /v/ poster challenge mode: Impossible

>>717370220
eh not really, though I think the parts where you play as the other party members on narshadda is mod exclusive and can be hard if you aren't prepared? but the game really just flops over dead pretty quickly because of how quickly you scale in power

>>717370184
That's 4000 years later. Kreia's teachings would've died with Bane and the Rule of Two even if they survived that long.

>>717370287
Wit too mid, Lumiya too sly.

>>717369810
Then pointing out how it's contrived is nonsensical

>>717370306
but what if thinking for myself is to steal everyone's power through memey 4th wall force powers by solving their problems (or ending them)?

>>717364328 (OP)
Iorc she wants you to just make your choice and think about your actions and their potential consequences.

>>717370326
>the parts where you play as the other party members on narshadda is mod exclusive
Pure Pazaak and the Twi'lek Threesome and the shitty bit with T3 and the droid warehouse are both base game.

>>717370418
Kreia's teachings are Jedi teachings.
(Sith teachings are also Jedi teachings)>>717370326

>>717370418
Bane learned from Revan's holocron, so they likely did.

>>717370515
Atton vs the sisters is nowhere near as hard if you make him a Jedi before it happens.

>>717370535
The (True) Lesson of Strength is something no Jedi would ever teach, it's a near-explicitly Sith lesson

>>717364328 (OP)
she wants you to not do something for the bing bing wahoo darkside points or because something is just "right" but because you can think for yourself

She didn't understand snacks

>>717370563
Sith Holocrons are the most plot convenient shit in Star Wars EU.
>Oh, we finally defeated the Sith and they'll forever be gone
And then some randy apprentice butt mad that his Master doesn't let him progress to the next tethan level then finds a flashdrive with all the evil teachings stored and becomes the next Darth Vengeancius.

>>717370515
right, so the big brawl during the bit where the exile goes into the toxic club is mod exclusive. that bit can be kind of a pain if you are low on medpacks as you can only really have one jedi during that section iirc, and it'd be a pretty low level one.

>>717370642
The Jedi explicitly teach non-attachment though, they just don't say it makes you stronger, they only imply it.

>>717370751
[Hissssss]

>>717370751
Originally there was only one Sith Holocron. They were exclusively a Jedi thing up until Exar Kun got his hands on that one and used it to start the Sith War.

Then 40 years later Atris has a room full of them

>>717370661
>Jedi masters talk about how well and how easily the Exile can form force bonds with other force sensitives
>meanwhile Canderous is just along for the ride

>>717370912
naw they don't imply that it makes you stronger, just that non-attachment makes you less susceptible to emotional outbursts that may lead to seeking power via the dark side

>>717370912
The Jedi teach non-attachment as a means of remaining free of the lure of the Dark Side. Kreia is teaching you to be self-reliant in your pursuit of power. No Jedi would ever teach their padawans to seek out strength or power.

>>717364328 (OP)
She's a Sith so take a wild fuckin guess.

>>717371026
He still gets alignment-shifted with high influence

>>717370640
Literally just lay mines in the bar beforehand.

>>717370986
>XR-kun

>>717370912
That's why Luke's Jedi are stronger.
He taught his students to not let attachment control them, rather than to avoid it out of, ironically enough, fear of the consequences.

>>717370451
I suppose in your own contrived view of things, that's true.

Generally when people say something is contrived in fiction they mean it's obvious that the fiction is contrived.
To me a lot of the fun of fiction is in it temporarily lifting you from your experience of real life and getting you to believe in its fantasy. If something about a work of fiction forces you to confront the fact that it is contrived/not real/fake, etc. in most cases I'd consider that to be bad.
Star Wars' red vs. blue morality is bad, and the contrivance started in Empire Strikes Back.
In the first film, Luke is young, hotheaded, energetic, heroic, and you want to see him succeed. He's stuck on the farm, and the Empire is this looming threat of oppression that becomes a very real threat.
He stands up against it, rescues a beautiful princess, blows up the Empire's biggest weapon, and gets cheered for a job well done.

In Empire the Jedi forbid Luke from helping his friends on Bespin because they hadn't fully planned out sequels for the first film, and needed to contrive some drama. So they invented the "light" and "dark" side of the force.
And then Star Wars became very shitty.

>>717371189
There's some comic where Anakin is floating new weapon ideas to Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan tells him that they use lightsabers rather than more effective weapons because the lightsaber is symbolic of how they could be stronger but instead use skill and unity with the Force to inspire people.
You can see on Anakin's face that in his head he's thinking "yeah that's great and all but if we had stronger weapons we could save more people" lel

>>717364328 (OP)
She hates it when you go full Sith, so she wants you to be a Jedi but an edgy bad boy Jedi.

>>717370919
why do they hiss bros?

>>717371342
>So they invented the "light" and "dark" side of the force.
Meanwhile, the first time Luke Skywalker hears about the Force.
>A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

>>717371342
>So they invented the "light" and "dark" side of the force.
The fuck are you talking about? The dark side is mentioned from day one, and the light is never mentioned in the original trilogy.
The contrast between Obi-Wan using it to avoid conflict and Vader nearly choking someone to death with it is blatantly obvious even before Yoda spells it out.

There's obvious mid trilogy retcons, but that's not one of them.

I'll add to this >>717371342
If you apply the Star Wars "red vs. blue" "jedi vs. sith" morality to the first film, Luke is a straight up Sith. So is Obi-Wan but that's another matter.
He follows his passions, he becomes involved in worldly affairs instead of choosing detachment, once he finds out about Leia his motivation becomes chasing and impressing a beautiful girl, and (as many have jokingly pointed out) he kills millions of Imperials when he blows up the Death Star.

And yet I still find him heroic.
The flaw lies not with Luke here.

>>717371729
The original trilogy is explicit about the dogmatic Jedi being wrong, and their plan for Luke would have doomed the galaxy. There is no blue good, red bad to be found in the OT.

I thought the attack on citadel station near the end of the game was cool. where you have a couple different factions showing up from the other planets showing up to help. very proto-2nd battle of hoover dam.

While I plan on playing both someday (last time I tried to play KOTOR I lost all of my starting money gambling and quit), should they be played in order or doesn't matter?

>>717371342
>Star Wars' red vs. blue morality is bad, and the contrivance started in Empire Strikes Back.
Dude, how can you be this confidently wrong?
The Empire is unambiguously evil and the rebels unambiguously good.
>>717371342
>In Empire the Jedi forbid Luke from helping his friends on Bespin because they hadn't fully planned out sequels for the first film, and needed to contrive some drama. So they invented the "light" and "dark" side of the force
You are retarded
>A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

>>717372090
Literally at no point in the 6 films there's anything about the Jedi being dogmatic and wrong. That's something retards like Filoni incorporated in their work to justify how shitty the prequels wrote the Jedi.

>>717372265
That whole level honestly one of my favorite parts of a star wars game. Its too bad the boss is a fucking pussy who you can almost one shot.

>>717372293
2 is a sequel to 1, if you can believe that.

>>717364328 (OP)
She just wants you to enjoy a nice Cerveza Cristal.

>>717372387
The Jedi wanted Luke Skywalker to execute Darth Vader, because Vader was beyond redemption. That was literally their entire plan. Had Luke listened to them, the galaxy would be doomed.
All six movies are about the Jedi being fucktarded and then Luke was going to build a Jedi Order that wasn't so retarded.

>>717372529
>Kill Vader
t. two Jedi Masters
>Kill Vader
t. Sith Lord

missionbros...

>>717372529
pretty sure it's a jehudi revenge fantasy

>>717372453
>Betrayal.
>*ZZZZT!* BWEEEEP!! *sparks*
>Cerveza Cristal~

>>717372529
Except George planned on the sequel trilogy having Luke be an incel who kidnaps children to force them to he jedi just like the original Jedi order. And also that Leia is in fact the REAL chosen one since she becomes the first female president.

>>717372704
I don't care what Lucas planned, I care what he put in real movies that exist.
I don't care about his Osmosis Jones Midichlorian Adventures either.

>>717372704
Ive never heard this before.

>>717372529
>The Jedi wanted Luke Skywalker to execute Darth Vader, because Vader was beyond redemption. That was literally their entire plan. Had Luke listened to them, the galaxy would be doomed.
How's that dogma and not just personal hangups against the gay that wiped out their entire order?
Luke constantly reaffirms his Jedi identity all through the films, if the Jedi were dogmatic retards why would he do that instead of becoming something new?

>>717372704
>And also that Leia is in fact the REAL chosen one since she becomes the first female president.
I wonder how much dick she had to suck to get that job.
Carrie Fisher would've happily done it.

>>717372683
kek

>>717371643
>>717371660
Sure fine. You've got me there, Obi Wan does mention "the dark side of the force".
That said
>The contrast between Obi-Wan using it to avoid conflict and Vader nearly choking someone to death
Is the crux of the issue.
There is no real difference between the way Obi-Wan, Luke, and Vader use the Force in the first film. They're all using it to get their way.
In fact mind control is arguably one of the more fucked up uses of the Force ever conceived - how is Obi-Wan fucking with people's minds and perceptions not a "dark side" power?
Luke lets go and uses the Force to end a conflict with two torpedoes - something which Obi-Wan put him up to: that's not avoiding conflict. That's the exact opposite of avoiding conflict.

>>717372827
Also Darth Maul and (for some reason) his girlfriend, Darth Talon, were the main villains.

why is malak such a chode?

>>717372616
Really makes you think.

>>717373220
>calling malak a chode
>in a game where there is literally a character whose name means “I am a chode”

>>717373358
yes but he's ironically less of a chode than malak

>>717372616
>We're not so different, you and I.

>>717364328 (OP)
I sit down to paint Warhammer for 6 hours and I miss the goddamn KotOR™ shitposting thread?
Goddang it.

>>717373648
Trask no, he's too dangerous!

>>717372310
I am right, from a certain point of view.

>>717372090
No, it's not explicit about that at all.

What the fuck happened to him
He just disappears off the face of the galaxy in the beginning of KOTOR's endgame

>>717373735
He's dead, Jim.

>>717373735
He was actually a ghost tied by regret.

>>717373049
>Sure fine. You've got me there
That was one of your major points
>There is no real difference between the way Obi-Wan, Luke, and Vader use the Force in the first film. They're all using it to get their way.
Light side powers vs dark side powers is something the games made up. Luke chokes a guy in Return.
The difference between the Dark side and the Force (there's never a Light Side) is what Yoda details in Empire, using your powers for the good of all vs self interest and doing harm.
Obi Wan is using his powers to save the life of a promising young hero and fight against the evil Empire. It's pretty different from murdering a family or killing billions of people on a whim

>>717373735
apparently there was supposed to be a sequence where he and hk break into to the HK factory under that military base on telos where he'd die, but it was cut.

>>717370184
Bad interpretation of Vergere. Vergere is Jedi, albeit a heterodox one. But she is ideologically and temperamentally the opposite of Kreia. Kreia is manipulative. She praises the exile when he lies to people and makes them dependent on him. She teaches the exile to regard his allies as tools to be used. And most importantly, Kreia is vindictive. Although she acts philosophical, the whole game plays out her revenge fantasy against the people who wronged her: first the Jedi, then her old Sith pupils. Her old grievances resurface and everyone who wronged her is killed.

Although some of Vergere's philosophical musings sound like Kreia, her behavior is the complete opposite. Vergere intervenes to prevent Jacen giving in to his anger and killing the world brain, helps him prevent the genocide of the Yuuzhan Vong, and ultimately sacrifices herself to save him even after telling him that he shouldn't put himself at risk. What Vergere actually tells Jacen is to fear "the dark side in his own heart".

Kreia is a well-written villain because of how well she masks her vindictiveness and vengefulness behind a philosophy. Vergere is a well-written hero because she is a good person despite her heterodox and sometimes disturbing beliefs.

>>717373727
The movies present that nobody could have beaten Emperor Palpatine. He dies solely because Luke refuses to kill Darth Vader.
There is no point of view out there that would allow Obi-Wan and Yoda to have been correct to implore Luke to kill his father.

>>717373793
>>717373819
>He's a ghost
....really?
How can everyone see him then?
When did he die?

>>717373727
>I am right, from a certain point of view
Don't be cheeky with me, that like was there to make Obi Wan not sound like an incest approving weirdo after the retcon.

>>717373869
>The movies present that nobody could have beaten Emperor Palpatine
Lando could've blown up the deaths star with him in it.
Like could've killed Vader and then just stalled for a bit.

>>717373735
>>717373891
Dies in the crash on Malachor V, the Remote has a pre-recorded directive to turn on the Mass Shadow Generator that includes his messages.

>>717373891
No, it's implied in cut content that he died getting HK into the factory, if I remember correctly

>>717373891
>When did he die?
m a l a c h o r

>>717374010
But the Ithorians/Czerka talk about him and acknowledge his existence in the planet restoration efforts

Was he a ghost the whole time he was on Telos and EVERYONE saw him and could interact with him?

>>717374124
he's not a ghost you weiner

>>717374124
He's not a ghost you retard, he's a hologram projected by Remote

>>717374124
What if I told you the remote simply puppeteered a hologram like G0T0?
>>717374048
He “vanishes” after the council scene. He becomes a disembodied voice right there

>>717374231
>>717374217
>He's a hologram
How the fuck does he learn the Force then? You can make him a Jedi Guardian
A hologram can't use the Force

>>717367219
>I have a sneaking suspicion this build wont work at all in Kotor 2 because of enemy saves increasing through level scaling so give me your best fun novelty build ideas when I get round to it.
You'd be wrong on that count. Enemy saves do increase over time, but Sniper Shot's DC is level + INT which scales faster than their saves even if you don't load yourself up with INT bonus gear.

>>717374287
Don't be racist, anon.

>>717374287
He's a normal dude until you return to Malachor at the end of the game. Then he dies. And after he is dead, he's still not a ghost.

>>717374287
He is a ghost when he is interacting with you and the gang.

Ever notice that the only person who recognizes him from before the war is a blind sullastan who… cant see anything?

>>717374256
>What if I told you the remote simply puppeteered a hologram like G0T0?
This is just silly enough to be believable
But how can a hologram interact with the real world? 'Hologram' Bao-dur can put on armor, hold weapons, and punch through barriers.

>>717373826
>That was one of your major points
No, my point is that Star Wars' morality isn't blatantly stupid in the first film.
You can pick apart my words all you want, miss the forest for the trees, apprehend the letter not the spirit, etc. etc. etc.
But my point remains
Empire Strikes Back is where Star Wars becomes stupid.

In the first movie you can kind of make the argument that the "light side" is like the happier, funnier side of the Force, more in line with life, nature, liveliness, etc.
Obi-Wan being a trickster, Luke destroying a weapon of mass destruction which is threatening the galaxy - the "Fun" side of the force.
In Empire, when Yoda and Obi-Wan are deceiving Luke to try and get him to kill his own father (none of which was the original plan for Star Wars as a story btw) - the "Light Side" is pretty much just Yoda and Obi-Wan doing whatever the fuck they want.
They're no different than Palpatine manipulating everyone for his own selfish ends in the prequels.
>inb5 "Yea well Luke was actually Light sided while Yoda and Obi-Wan were being dark sided"
You wouldn't have to have these stupid defenses if Empire were a better written film.
The Jedi are assholes in that film.

>>717374464
Because you believe he can.

>>717373902
I'll be cheeky with you if I want to be.
My point is Star Wars is pretty badly written beyond the very first movie.
It gets "good" when its critiquing itself, in the Prequels and in games like Kotor II, but it's still just a fucking mess.

>>717374464
The Force is a pathway to many abilities etc.

>we need to do this or I will die inside… like I died at malachor 5…
*immediately vanishes from the game at this point*

Really makes you think

>>717374419
>Kreia, for some reason, cannot read Bao-dur's mind at all as though he is one of the Droids
>Cannot see his future either in the end of the game, much like the Droids
>He always speaks with a very monotone, emotionless voice as though he were a construct
Fucking A

droid jedi

>>717374464
It's like Fight Club, it's really the Exile doing all that stuff but you don't know it's you because you're crazy.

to the extent she had a preference I imagine it would be a non murderhobo sith, but in practice I think she's fine so long as you succeed and prove that you thought through your position. she'll even have a sense of hope for LSfags if you say even she could find redemption

>>717366334
You win by making your own choices and having your own convictions. But you can't, by definition. She'd consider you furniture probably. Or, in your generation's parlance, "an NPC".

>>717366816
>or managed to pass on her lessons to the new generation.
She has. The new Order is not as dysfunctional as the previous one. Even though it regresses somewhat eventually.

>>717366334
Literally untrue. Perfect example is on Nar Shadaa with Lootra. The outcome she praises you for (to which your character is surprised and thinks she is mocking you) is helping Lootra but telling him now he must help someone else, paying it forward.

>>717367804
The final test. She wields the role as she despises it.

>>717368050
Almost but no.

>>717367931
Nope. She is only upset if you became Darth Nigga and killed everyone just because.

>>717375816
This guy gets it

>>717375887
>”You have failed me. Completely and utterly.”
>”Sheeeeeeeeeeit.”

Sex with Visas

>>717370986
>Exar Kun
>the Sith War
>the
A Sith War.

>>717364562
if you feel everything she feels and vice versa fucking her yourself must be like triple the pleasure or some kind of infinite feedback loop of ecstasy

>>717374776
>BAO-DUR'S NOT HERE
>BAO-DUR WENT AWAY

>>717366429
No. It's not a deconstruction of Star Wars, it's a love letter to it. Chris Avellone watched the original trilogy before writing KOTOR 2 and deliberately attacked all the shallow pretentious Force-bullshit that was so prevalent in the EU of that time, breaking down the typical tropes of wisdom using Kreia as a mouthpiece. What Kreia ends up praising is an Exile who, despite being disconnected from the Force, turns out to be Light Side. What Kreia considers a failure is an Exile who repeats her mistakes, as the mistakes of Sion and Nihilus, by turning into another Dark Sider.
Kreia would admire someone like Luke who blazed his own path with the Force, not its pawn but a man who made his own decisions. She would despise the Jedi of the Prequels, who obeyed the Code without understanding the meaning behind it.

>>717373735
ᴹᵃˡᵃᶜʰᵒʳ

>>717373220
His surname is "Squinquargesimus".

>>717364562
>>717365291
>>717369750
>>717376221

>>717375958
You have not seen the real DS ending.

>>717364328 (OP)
She wants you to be a pawn that she can use to benefit herself and regain her position as a Sith Lord.

>>717376231
It's THE Sith War. The original Sith invasion a thousand years prior was the Great Hyperspace War. Revan caused the Jedi Civil War.

>>717375887
Killing the Jedi masters is what locks you onto the Dark Side path, if you don't you're locked onto the Light Side path.
>lol choices and conquences

>>717376721
Only because inflexible Republic paperwork insisted he have one.

laugh at this idiot

>>717377432
I tend to be the biggest LS moralfag 99% of my playthrough but I take great pleasure in this smarmy fuck getting BTFO by Kreia in the council room, dude was everything wrong with the jedi order crammed into one person

>>717374746
this is almost as bad as force sensitive yuuzhan vong

>>717377432
>is a shitty Jedi Master
>dies
lmao

>>717377432
>does literally everything wrong

>>717377432
Master Wuncler

>>717372453
I don't get it...

>>717377259
No, it locks you into the Retard path.

>reach end of the game
>handmaiden and visas square up then are never seen again
all right. cool. thank you obsidian

>collect all the Jedi Masters to Dantooine
>dunk on their faces because you're a better Jedi than them
>leave with the knowledge that Kreia is about to come in and murder all of them

>>717378092
>handmaiden and visas square up then are never seen again
I think that's Restored Content Mod only, right?
I recently played through it and I had high influence with both and didn't get that scene.

What I got was a scene of Atton/Mira/Visas/Brianna all ganging up on Kreia before you get a chance to get there.

>>717377761
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmLwH0mnDAA
When they showed Star Wars on TV in Chile they would insert ads right into the movie when a commercial break would begin.

>>717378423
wtf, was this the original director's cut or one of those weird Lucas hack job edits!?!??!

She's the writer's mouthpiece to share their feelings on Star Wars' power system (because they didn't understand it)

>>717378395
IDK if it's restored content or not, but it was from a playthrough where Brianna got pissed at me for being polite with Visas and stopped talking to me. I only got Atton and Mira trying to attack Kreia, but it was Mira and Canderous in the cells in the academy.

>>717378002
>Retard
>Dark Side
same thing

>>717378569
>because they didn't understand it
To be fair, pretty much everyone doesn't understand how Lucas saw The Force.

>>717378569
Enlighten us.
How would you describe Star Wars' "power system" and what do Kotor II's writers get wrong?

>>717378802
Lucas has weird views on the Force, he's all about it being all Buddhist and eastern religion-y but then has a guy in the Prequels deify it Living God style and be the first guy let into Jedi Heaven because he understands the Force so we'll.

>>717378802
That’s because it changes based on the day of the week.

>>717378802
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-tMhRKS9Jo
Vidrelated.

>>717378891
Well, you see, there's this power called "The Force" which is the Star Wars stand in for God. It's not personal like the Christian God, but it does have a will. People who are aligned with that will are going along with the Light Side of the force (which is just the force) and people who are going against it, corrupting it, etc are using the Dark Side of the force (like a cancerous growth on the force). The retarded writers of KOTORslop for some reason thought the force was actually fighting itself by creating Light and Dark in ceaseless battle.

The moment Lucas came up with the Whills his word on what the Force was ceased to matter.

>>717378802
it's hilarious how simple the Force is and yet how hard it is for people to comprehend it. Somehow people always manage to fuck it up
>energy field that surrounds all things
>everything that is natural is the Force
>the Dark Side is a tumor of negative emotions that is wielded by those who violate the laws of nature in pursuit of personal power, such as the Sith
Even the "Light Side" is completely made up fanfiction. There is only the Force, and the Dark Side of the Force. The Force itself is neutral, unaligned. The Dark Side is not the opposite of the Force, it's not a binary good and evil situation, it's natural vs. unnatural.

>>717374496
>No, my point is that Star Wars' morality isn't blatantly stupid in the first film.
...which you exemplified by saying there was no Dark Side.
Embarrassingly wrong.
>You can pick apart my words all you want
Anon, you claimed something and was dead wrong. This isn't "picking apart your words", it's you being retarded
>>>717374496
>In Empire, when Yoda and Obi-Wan are deceiving Luke to try and get him to kill his own father (none of which was the original plan for Star Wars as a story btw) - the "Light Side" is pretty much just Yoda and Obi-Wan doing whatever the fuck they want.
His dad is like Himmler though, they're wrong about how he can be redeemed, but that doesn't erase the fact that Anakin is a monster. In fact one of the complained aspects of Return's ending is that Darth Vader basically forgiven for all the horrid shit he did because he felt riiiight at the end.
>inb5 "Yea well Luke was actually Light sided while Yoda and Obi-Wan were being dark sided"
I think Luke was just being super mega enlightened while Obi-Wan and Yoda were being pragmatically good.
>>717374628
Empire is the best written Star Wars and there's no examination at all from the prequels. They're just awfully written.

>>717379081
If we imagined there was a "Force" in real life, it certainly causes a lot of pointless conflicts. If there is a "Force" it is hardly a force for peace.
Seems to me like the Kotor II writers understood the "Force" pretty well.

>>717379167
You're very annoying, from a certain point of view.

>>717372650
made for BWC (big wookie cock)

>>717379221
The conflicts are results of human failings. The Force wouldn't have had to have the Chosen One throw the galaxy into 20 years of genocide if the Jedi didn't fuck up so hard in their complacency. If they were more attuned to the will of the Force like Qui-Gon, they would have killed the Sith and cut the cancer out of the Force without having to inflict mass death on the galaxy.

>>717377432
>I admire dedication to Jedi Order.
>You mean like them 12-year-old kids that work in your temples in the Outer Rim?
>That's right, every morning I wake up and put one foot on the ground and the other up the ass of a 12 year-old Outer Rim kid.

KOTOR is Star Wars for people who don't actually like Star Wars

>do <thing>
>Influence lost: Kreia
>So, you did <thing> just like that, without considering <consequence>?
>You're right, that was foolish of me, I will now contemplate <thing> and <consequence>
>Influence gained: Kreia
How is this so hard to understand?

>>717379464
>noOooOOo I don't want to think about the consequences of my actions
>just give me the red or blue points and the approval of all around me

>>717379464
In a good game, you could go
>Fuck off, cunt. Out of my party and off my ship
But the writers contrived a reason for her to stick around so they could spout their pseud nonsense.

Why did Kreia save Hanharr anyway?
I did my first playthrough as a LS character and I BTFO him on Malachor V as Mira
Tobin at least baited Darth Nihilus to Telos, but what was the point of saving Hanharr after all?

>>717376668

>>717379458
That's why it's good

>>717379534
She knew Mira would follow the Exile, given the Exile's nature of attracting loyal followers.
Hanharr had a specific vendetta against Mira so saving him meant she had a card to play later when her goals inevitably clashed with the Exile's and thus his allies.

>>717379414
>The conflicts are results of human failings.
No.
Humans are essentially designed to fail. Irl, as well as in Star Wars.
The designer, whatever you want to call it, "Force" or otherwise, is at fault for this.

>>717379464
I chop Kreia's ears off with a light saber, thus maximising influence

>>717379464
Pretty hard, considering you missed that the entire point of her bitching at you. It isn't to have you consider the consequences, but to encourage you to listen to her and become reliant on her teachings.

>>717379458
Which is why it's better than most SW stuff

>>717379458
fine by me

>>717379221
The story of the Prequels is a tragedy.
>Jedi went so long without any real threats to fight that they got complacent and dogmatic, lost in the sauce of the Code without real introspection and wisdom to guide them
>Qui-Gon is the only Jedi around who actually understands the Will of the Force, but is tragically eliminated before he can train Anakin into the greatest Jedi to ever live
>Obi-Wan tries his best, but he's young and lacks Qui-Gon's wisdom, and gradually drifts apart from Anakin throughout the Clone Wars
>Palpatine has zero obstacles to corrupting Anakin because the Jedi have become confused by the Clone Wars and are too busy fighting in a completely engineered conflict to actually realize who the real culprit is
>Palpatine just casually takes control over the Republic, exterminates the Jedi, and corrupts Anakin into being his apprentice
>even when he's found out, all the Jedi masters fuck up their chance to take him out and Palpatine just shrugs and carries on with his business
The Force must have been screaming at the Jedi that Palpatine's a glowie, but they weren't listening.

>>717379626
And that's really all to it? I know Hanharr hated Mira, but at least with Tobin it was much more subtle and interesting

>>717379765
In the films Windu complains the Force isn't on speaking terms with the Council and it's becoming harder for them to discern the future/people's motives/Palpatine's behind it all

In the book Palpatine is doing a Sith ritual at a shrine on Coruscant specifically to weaken the Jedi's ability to see he's blatantly evil

>>717379916
>And that's really all to it?
Pretty much. He was just a tool that would be wasted now. Someone who is that vehemently against Mira would inevitable prove an ally later when she and the Exile split. She saw an asset that could be used to kill or at least weaken a future enemy and took it.

>>717374746
4-LOM became force sensitive in the EU and it was hype as fuck.

Reminder that canonically Dooku is more powerful than literally every Sith who came before him. He’d no diff all the Old Republic OCs, all the Novel OCs, etc.

>>717380008
Why the fuck is there a sith shrine on coruscant?

>>717379414
god the prequels are so fucking stupid

>>717380097
Because the Jedi Temple is on Coruscant

>>717380042
Dooku's not even the best curved saber wielder

>>717364909
old hag erotic uuuooohh

>>717380034
That makes sense I guess
Kreia hated all force-sensitive companions now when I think of that

>>717380156
>The Chosen One will bring balance to The Force
>The Jedi Order is corrupt and not in balance
>The Chosen One kills The Jedi Order
>The Chosen One kills The Sith
I don't understand what you're bitching about here.

>>717379765
You post is cringe. I'm not reading most of it. Just a heads up.
>The Force must have been screaming at the Jedi that Palpatine's a glowie, but they weren't listening.
I mean
...the whole thing is he's skilled at manipulating people's minds with the Force (which, in another context would be called "Jedi" mind tricks).
The whole point of subterfuge is to be unnoticed.

Feels like this conversation is on the cusp of some interesting evolution of the way I'll view "the force".

>>717380421
>he's skilled at manipulating people's minds with the Force
He was using the Dark Side to cloud the Jedi's minds. That and the whole galactic war thing that kept them all busy fighting droids rather than investigating where this giant clone army came from and who's been secretly organizing the Separatists all along.

Was Kreia right for wanting to kill the force once and for all?

>>717364328 (OP)
>So does Kriea want me to be a Jedi or Sith?

Kreia is disappointed in you for thinking in such simple terms.

Influence lost.

>>717380207
The jedi have supported the republic forever. The sith have constantly attacked the republic and are generally considered by the population to be evil and there is only ever two of them at one time anyway, so there are no “satanist black sabbaths” to be held on coruscant. Why is there supposed to be a sith shrine on the republic capital?

>>717380576
kill the demiurge

>>717380527
>He was using the Dark Side to cloud the Jedi's minds
Explain how this is any different to Jedi using "the force" to cloud people's minds, ie. "Jedi mind tricks"

>>717380576
She's just another fedora tipper angrily shaking her fist at the sky.
That's why Jedi Jesus comes in and spanks her into compliance.

>>717380604
Reminder that George was so butthurt over KoTOR 2 that he has Palpatine quote this in Episode 3, just like he had Anakin quote George W Bush.

>>717380685
One is fucking with their spiritual connection to the Force while the other is interfering with brain think.

>>717380653
>there is only ever two of them at one time anyway
The rule of two had only existed for about 1000 years during the era of the original trilogy. A relatively short span of time in the grand scheme of things, before that the sith always had armies.

>>717380826
You didn't answer my question.

>>717373859
Kreia and Vergere are 99% the same. Gaslighting is a meme word, but Vergere absolutely fucks Jacen's mind throughout Traitor in order to turn him towards her ideals, which are in fact extremely like Kreia's. Vergere teaches Jacen detachment, manipulation, and subjectivity, all while grooming him to be comfortable with such things. At the beginning of the novel, she even cuts him off from the Force in order to deprive him of his one refuge while being held captive. Not to mention how she teaches him to pick and choose what lives and dies like he's picking weeds, such as was the case when she led him to kill 99% of the nascent world-brains in the hatchery, only to leave the last one alive so that it would trauma-bond to him and serve as poison for the Vong-growth of Coruscant.

>>717380653
Because the Jedi Temple is on Coruscant and the Jedi/Sith feud goes back over 5000 years to the Hundred Year Darkness, 4000 years and more before Bane and his Rule of Two

>>717380685
>Explain how this is any different to Jedi using "the force" to cloud people's minds, ie. "Jedi mind tricks"
The Jedi aren't clouding people's minds, they're just hypnotizing them very briefly. It's the difference between "I cast Aura of Retardo upon the entire Jedi Council, muwahahahaha!" and "Go home and rethink your life of selling drugs. If you decide to keep selling drugs then fine, but at least sit down and properly think this miserable lifestyle through."

>>717380957
That is not an answer. Thats like saying “there is a jedi temple on korriban” or “there is a sith temple on tython”

>>717379765
I think the reason that people look so fondly on the Prequels these days is that it is a magnificent story just told extremely shittily. People remember the drama and the tragedy, not the poor cinematography and godawful dialogue.

>>717380653
Because the Sith are parasites that like to suckle on the fat teets of wealth and prosperity, and Coruscant is the richest (and most politically influential) world in the galaxy. See also "hide in plain sight" and/or "it's the last place they'd ever look"

>>717380724
>Kreia hated the fact that the force controls every event in the galaxy
If the force truly controls everyhing wouldn't it prevent the exile from hurting it by separating herself from the force so violently?

>>717381197
The god awful dialogue makes up the vast majority of Star Wars memery. It's hardly been forgotten lmao

>>717381117
>Where should we put this shrine to eventually fuck with the hated Jedi?
>Not right under the biggest, most important, most central Jedi temple on the homeworld of the Republic, that's for sure
Don't be dense. THE Jedi Temple is on Coruscant. Where the FUCK else would you put a shrine to mess with the majority of the Jedi Order at once.

>>717381283
>her

>>717381334
yes chud
canonically it's her

>>717381301
How does it get there? Why is it connected to the Sith/Dark Side? Who built it/consecrated it?

>>717381370
Canonically Rey kills Palpatine so Star Wars canon can suck my dick outside of the six films.

>>717381114
"Jedi Mind Tricks" like Obi-Wan confusing stormtroopers or drug dealers, or Qui-Gon attempting to trick Watto and failing - these are no different from Palpatine cloaking his presence from the Jedi or mind-tricking the senate to rise to power.
There is Zero difference, except for the scale of the "mind trick"

>>717381370
>canonically
There is no “canon” anymore. So The Exile is canonically a male.

>>717372650
I loved making the wookie kill her. Best moment of the game.

>>717381462
>mind-tricking the senate to rise to power
Palpatine organically rose to power using good old fashioned politics, not mind tricks.

>>717381451
>>717381506
whatever
the exile's gender is not the point of the post anyway

>>717381606
Mind tricks only work on the weak minded.

>>717381370
Canon, according to whom? Is it the book written by the guy who hated this story and immediately killed off the character? Because I'm not inclined to listen to what that guy says.
"Canon" as a concept only really makes sense when there's a God figure at the top who decrees all the truths, and ever since George left, "canon" has been a shit show of everyone saying that their story is the mostest true. The Star Wars canon collapsed, now you can just pick and choose what you like and don't like.

>>717381462
>"Jedi Mind Tricks" like Obi-Wan confusing stormtroopers or drug dealers, or Qui-Gon attempting to trick Watto and failing - these are no different from Palpatine cloaking his presence from the Jedi or mind-tricking the senate to rise to power.
Palpatine merely concealed himself, he didn't literally walk up and tell all the Jedi "You will not think of me as a Sith." Jedi mind tricks are just inserting an idea into someone's brain. They're short-lived. Palpatine used the Dark Side to cloud the Jedi's connection to the Force, making it harder to sense his presence on Coruscant, while he had to use actual political ploys to build his influence in the Senate. The Phantom Menace is the story of how Palpatine used the attack on Naboo to get the previous chancellor ousted from power and take his place. Attack of the Clones is how he positioned himself as the heroic leader of the Republic against the Separatist menace. And after that point, he was already on the cusp of total political victory, he just needed to get rid of the Jedi who were the last force capable of opposing him seizing total power.

>>717381838
Exactly my thoughts.

>>717380221
Darth Bane?

>>717381838
Ahsoka Tano? Mortis gods? Clone brain chips? Not in my Star Wars.

got an autistic question
does any one know what triggers Handmaiden to love you?
There are two global variables that determine if Visas/Handmaiden love you - '000_Hand_Love' and '000_Visas_Love' - that will change the ending dialogue from Kreia. I know what sets Visas for sure is if you do the Force Sight meditation scene with her on the way to Telos but for the life of me I cannot figure out what triggers 'Hand_Love', I've done all the Handmaiden dialogue and gotten just about every scene I can think of with no success and have been playing around in the Save Editor with no success of setting it.

Does anyone know what sets that value? It affects nothing other than a single line of dialogue in the ending of the game but that is enough to drive my autism into overdrive when I had been dead set on romancing Handmaiden for the endgame.

>>717382175
I had no idea that global existed. Now I know how to changed the expanded ending script so I get Visas in the event that both Visas and HM are maxed.

>>717382175
well, you can just use KSE to edit the variable if it's only the one ending dialog line your autism craves

>>717382175
>000_Hand_Love
That sounds like what you get if you don't romance either of them.

>>717371570
Whey wouldn't they be hissing?
If you were smart, you would hiss too.

>>717382339
I know, and I did so, but now I have a nagging feeling at the back of my head like I didn't earn it.
There must be SOMETHING specific to set Hand_Love organically that I somehow failed to do and it's eating away at me. I need to know how it's done without setting the code myself.

>>717380309
Darth Vader rejecting the dark side and destroying his master because he loves his son is retconned into a hamfisted messianic prophecy. A human moment was turned into memberberriesslop because George believed that since Darth Vader was the guy on the ceral boxes and the center of the marketing, he had to be the literal center of the ENTIRE star wars universe that everything revolves around. It's the worst creative decision the franchise has EVER made.

zoomers wouldn't get it, though

>>717382108
he's 6'6 btw, quite a big guy 4 u

>>717382468
there's somewhat hidden dialog option for echani poetry if I'm not mistaken
maybe that's it?

>>717382491
That's all well and good, but not at all what you were implying or bitching about. Maybe you should actually make a point the first time around, instead of making yourself look like a retard that then needs to cover his ass with a different discussion?

>>717382468
Why not just mod the game?
In the dialogue option where you reject Visas’s mind sex, have it set the Hand_Love global value to whatever it needs to be?

>>717382559
That's exclusively New Game+ dialogue (beating the game once as light side + dark side already) so I don't think it'd have bearing since you wouldn't get it on your first run

>>717382659
Its also just a joke. Like Atton talking about he was supposed to be Jaden Korr in Academy.

>>717382628
That's just setting it in KSE to me but with extra steps.
Unless it's something the original devs just completely missed out on / neglected to do (which knowing Obsidian isn't outside the realm of possibility), surely there is a means of setting that value through playing the game as it was meant to be played.

>>717381848
You can seethe all you want
Both the Jedi and Palps use the Force to control people's minds in exactly the same way

The Jedi have the pretense of moral superiority, but they're exercising their will to power just like Palpatine - using the force to position themselves in the minds of the republic citizens as necessary galactic peacekeepers, just like Palpatine positions himself in the mind of the republic at large as a necessary autocratic leader against the growing threat of civil war (which he is fomenting).

The point I am making is that the "force powers" are exactly the same. Palpatine is using them selfishly. The Jedi are using them slightly-less selfishly (although if you really look at it: still selfishly).
From this angle, the whole "light side vs. dark side" dichotomy is a real problem in Star Wars.
When there isn't anything clearly "good" in the Star Wars universe, you don't get to call people like Palpatine "evil"

The only one who really seems unambiguously "Good" in Star Wars is Luke, and that really seems to be a matter of aesthetics - he's in the right place and the right time to seem "good" aesthetically speaking.
And if you buy into the theory people have about the prequels, that Palpatine used Darth Plaguis midichlorian manipulation magic to make Shmi conceive Anakin (Anakin, I am your Father), then Palpatine created "good guy" Luke.

>>717382175
I don't know for sure, but it's probably related to dialogue choices made during the Handmaiden vs Atris scene in the ice academy

>>717366334
You have failed her, completely and utterly. Kreia is a gatekeeper of choices. She doesn't want you to blindly choose light side or dark side. She wants you to look at the situation, think about the choices you have in that situation, and most importantly think about the impact those choices might have. Once you have done all of that, you make your choice with zero regrets.

>You were deafened
At last, you could hear
>You were broken
You were whole
>You were blinded
And at last... you saw

>>717382849
I will go check that in a couple of minutes

>>717382849
>dialogue choices made during the Handmaiden vs Atris scene in the ice academy
I worded that so badly
I mean the part where Atris attacks her and does the whole "Did you look upon him with love?" part before being saved by the Exile. There's some really romantic-sounding dialogue choices after that.

Kreia probably smells like absolute shit if you think about it. She's got that old lady smell, and on top of it I doubt she showers because she'd view it as a waste of time that doesn't further her plans. It's how she was able to so easily teach the Exile how to deal with noxious fumes in the Jekk'Jekk Tarr gas trap.

>>717382124

>>717382843
>And if you buy into the theory people have about the prequels, that Palpatine used Darth Plaguis midichlorian manipulation magic to make Shmi conceive Anakin
Palpatine doesn't know Plagueis's Midichlorian manipulation abilities. Ye olde lore was explicit that the Force created Anakin as a backlash directly in response to the experiments that Plagueis and Palpatine were running.
Mouse lore is probably going to have Plagueis literally Force Inseminate Shmi after getting the idea from the lesbian Force witches in the Acolyte since they are hacks.

>>717382843
>Both the Jedi and Palps use the Force to control people's minds in exactly the same way
Except they don't, you can literally see the differences in what they do and how they do it on screen. I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post, it's just blatant headcanon nonsense.

>>717383006
>Not realising that Kreia uses the Force to dissipate her miasma, since humans are base creatures who would reject an offer they actually want just because you smell bad

>>717364562
this

arren kae is a punkass bitch who died on malachor

Years later, I still don't understand this whole "wound in the Force" thing.

Okay, so Exile's been on Malachor. That fucked him up. To survive, he had to severe his connection from the Force. Now he's not using his own Force - he's stealing the Force of his companions and draining his enemies. This is what XP represents.
For some reason, either of those two things (or maybe force bonds, I'm not sure) makes the Jedi Council scared of you.
For some reason it also makes Kreia fall in love with the air you breathe, even though you're still relying on the Force and would have died Jekk'Jekk Tarr without it, because you're too stupid to bring an air tank with you.

But... You gain your first level up after fighting droids, and you don't have any companions. Why can you throw lightning around? Who exactly are you leeching from?
Also, how and why is the Exile different from Nihilus, who has a similar backstory and powers?

If she's so smart why was she surprised when the two most evil looking dudes in the galaxy betrayed her?

>>717383173
>Ye olde lore was explicit that the Force created Anakin as a backlash directly in response to the experiments that Plagueis and Palpatine were running.
Was that book lore?
Star Wars lore not expressly made by Lucas is mostly garbage.
Palpatine tells Anakin about Darth Plagis being able to "create life" during an opera with sperm-looking fish girls swimming into giant orbs of water.

I buy into the theory Shmi's conception was anything but miraculous, was down to Palpatine's mastery of the force, because the idea that Palpatine gets done in by the twink he created using dark force magic is really funny, if nothing else

>>717383278
You have a really small mind.

>>717383492
>Who exactly are you leeching from?
You're already force bonded to Kreia at that point, which was a subconscious reaction to nearly dying from the sedatives (Kreia planned on this)

>>717383510
I don't know what she was expecting with Sion. The man was literally being held together by pure hatred.

>>717364328 (OP)
She wants you to think beyond the neatly defined extremist boxes and be your own damn person.

>>717379661
But her teachings are based on you thinking your actions through and not being a retard (too light or too dark).

>>717382907
Ok. So to get an idea, I checked the Visas romance scene for a global set. Nothing. Visas_Love is not triggered in that scene.

An interesting dev note in the files though. Basically Visas’s romance scene was supposed to be this
https://youtu.be/gPSR7tCg_ls

>>717383572
Even if Plagueis created Anakin (and there is no real reason to think he did, other than an extrapolation on a semen-y play), Palpatine doesn't know how to manipulate Midichlorians. Which is why he tells Anakin that they'll figure it out together after he takes him as his apprentice.
Anakin being created by the Force in response to their evil is still them getting poetically bitch slapped by a man who resulted from their seeking immortality.

>>717383510
>I'm a great Jedi Master! I'm incredibly smart and I have everything figured out!
>I was betrayed by the Jedi, so now I'm a terrible Sith Lord. I now know I was wrong and I hold the galaxy by the throat.
>Okay, now I see they're all as bad as each other. I'm bringing the whole fucking system down.

>>717383752
and yet the game rewards you for being on ends of both extremes

>>717383752
But the game is all about two extremist boxes. It rewards you for going into one direction by both giving you a prestige class and additional insight into the game's plot and ending through the cave on Korriban. There's also Force Crush and Force Enlightenment too.
There is nothing to be gained from the mysterious third path where you're your own man, broken free from the restrictive manichean philosophy, in fact there is no third path of any sort.

>>717383838
>Basically Visas’s romance scene was supposed to be this
She was going to promise me little blind babies?

>>717366334
You can win with her in almost every single fucking conversation. You just gotta justify your view point with more than a "well.....I felt like it!! Okay!" or "It's just better to do things this way...well....because it just is!!" brainlet options.

The closest thing you get to not being able to win with her is the infamous begger scene, but even in that scene, if you choose the options that are like "I'll reflect on this and consider what you said." She will be like "Thanks, that's all I want" and you will gain more influence than you lost.

>>717383948
She has to repopulate her home planet somehow

>>717383492
I just finished a playthrough and understood it pretty well

The Exile's first and foremost ability was the ease and frequency with which he could form Force Bonds - he was always a leader and naturally charismatic in a way that made people flock to him but if he had an original talent that set him apart it was that he was very good at making lasting bonds/connections to others through the Force, en masse even.

At Malachor V, LOTS of people he had bonded with / connected to died at once, suddenly and violently. We've see how much it can hurt through just a SINGLE Force Bond, so imagine the sheer trauma and pain that would be a result of someone having formed so many bonds with so many people? It would be far too much for anyone to bear.

So the Exile, instinctively and subconsciously, cut himself off from the Force entirely to save himself from what would have otherwise been a horrifyingly painful experience. The problem is, him cutting himself off from the force so violently didn't just make him deaf and blind to the Force - it made him a void in the force, a sort of black hole that hungered to replace the many connections he had just lost. This is what the Council felt when you go to trial, was not just this emptiness but this HUNGER in the Force where you were standing.

It's this event that indirectly creates Nihilus, whose entire gimmick of being an insatiably hungry force of nature is based on trying to emulate what your character did to yourself in the first place. It explains what draws all your companions to you so easily, like a vortex drawing them in and circling around you. When you kill, it is your leeching off their connection to the Force that restores your strength/connection to the Force (a way of explaining EXP in-game). And it's why the Council fears your potential is that eventually your wound, the black hole of Force connections that you are, will eventually consume the Force itself.

>>717383891
The game rewards you by making you more powerful. Kreia wants you to deny that temptation.

>>717383853
>Even if Plagueis created Anakin
That's not what I'm saying.
>Palpatine doesn't know how to manipulate Midichlorians.
Yea, Palpatine, the guy who lied his way into control of the galaxy, tells Anakin (and the audience) that he doesn't know how to manipulate life.
You're free to believe him I guess.

>>717376503
She would really like Qui-Gon though.

>>717383891
Kreia gives no fucks about whether you're max light or max dark. She just doesn't want you to be a retard who murders indiscriminately or gives credits to bums to spend on spice

>>717383948

>>717384083
Well Liam Neeson is pretty handsome and allegedly has a huge dick

>>717384016
>Kreia: n0o0o0o you cannot give that poor man 5 credis, you weaken yourself!!!
>Me: shut your mouth when I'm grinding my +3 constitution you fucking infertile hag

>>717384180
>She just doesn't want you to be a retard who murders indiscriminately or gives credits to bums to spend on spice
But the game won't let you do anything else.

>>717384081
>tells Anakin that Plagueis taught his apprentice how to stop people from dying in an attempt to make him fall
>Anakin falls
>actually bro, I was just lying before but don't worry, we'll figure it out together
Which time do you think it was more likely that he was lying, when he was trying to get something or when he has everything he wants?

>>717383838
>Ok. So to get an idea, I checked the Visas romance scene for a global set. Nothing. Visas_Love is not triggered in that scene.
Are you sure? I swear I had tested this myself
Loading a file before going to Telos - '000_Visas_Love' is set to 0
Loading a file after arriving on Telos wherein I did the scene where me/Visas look upon each other through the force - '000_Visas_Love' is set to 2

>>717384016
>Kreia wants you to deny that temptation
What for? It's just for a roleplaying aspect and you don't get a good alternative unless I don't know about something

>>717384218
YOU CAN

>>717384319
I see exactly the behavior you are talking about looking through the save editor, but I don’t see where in the actually conversation file (both the post enclave ebon hawk and visas’s dialogue file, since it has a copy of that scene for whatever reason) where it runs a set global script.

>>717384249
what the fuck are you on about
The whole story Palpatine tells is about Plageis fucking up by teaching his apprentice everything he knew, giving his apprentice no reason not to kill him.
Palpatine was that apprentice.

https://youtu.be/05dT34hGRdg?feature=shared

>>717376668
v general

>>717384471
No, you can't.

>>717380754
source on this claim? Would be awesome if it was real.

>>717384535
Out of curiosity, how are you looking at the scripts? Is it saved anywhere open source to look through?

>>717383939
>There is nothing to be gained from the mysterious third path where you're your own man, broken free from the restrictive manichean philosophy, in fact there is no third path of any sort.
Well, that's the thing. It was supposed to be the hardest and least rewarding, but correct path to take.

Come to think of it, there's only like five years between games. So in the span of five years she would have had to:
1. Wait for Revan to fuck off
2. Restart Trayus Academy
3. Recuit Sith Assassians
4. Recruit Hungry Boy and Pain Boy
5. Actually Rise to power
6. Hold the Galaxy By the Throat
7. Get Betrayed and Suffer Indignities
8. Fuck off for a while
9. Find the exile
That one hell of a packed schedule for an old lady.

>>717384543
No shit retard. Palpatine is LYING in an attempt to bring Anakin to the Dark Side. When Anakin is on the Dark Side, Palpatine has no more reason to lie to him and admits that they will work together to learn Plagueis's technique.
Why the fuck would he be telling the truth the first time but lie about it when he has no reason to lie?
Are you some kind of illiterate moron or are you just overly invested in your idiot "Palpatine is Anakin's dad!" headcanon?

>>717384619
I am looking at the dlg files because thats where it will run the script. The actual scripts have largely been decompiled in nss form. If you run holocron tools and click on an ncs (and it doesn’t have an nss already in the files) it will ask if you want to check if there is an nss version in some online repository.

>>717384637
>but correct path to take
correct according to kreia who'd been cucked by both extremes and now she's salty at both sides

>character whose defining personality trait is that he's too angry to die
>he's scottish
das racist

>>717384721
Anon, you last post here >>717384249
Is actually just incoherent.
You've further devolved into incoherency.
Feel free to calm down and try again.

>>717384794
Very neat, I'll give that a try later to see if that might help me in my autistic quest looking through the scripts. It will be a lot easier than just trial/error and looking through save file after save file through KSE to see if it has triggered or not

>>717384961
>u mad
I can't believe I was baited by this fucktard for several posts.

>>717385098
You do seem pretty mad.
And particularly mad that you got called out for failing to understand the Darth Plagueis story.

Is doing good things just to get a +3 constitution bonus making me actually a DS character?

>>717383948
Dev notes says the scene is supposed to be the two of them together in a magical star field

>>717384919
Scots are feckless retards tho
They're not at all angry at the brown hordes coming and raping their children

>>717384081
>Yea, Palpatine, the guy who lied his way into control of the galaxy, tells Anakin (and the audience) that he doesn't know how to manipulate life.
I mean he doesn't
We never see him do that in all six films

>>717385212
Good things for the wrong reasons are still good things

>>717385664
I do this to gain more power
So my reasons are wrong and therefore I'm a DS character, even though the game doesn't recognize me as such

I'm about to head back to my ship on Nar Shaddaa and deal with these cunts who tried to walk in. Also did Onderon. By going with my honest choice, I've ended up fully light side, but you better believe I sent that one cunt out to die instead of playing more pazaak.

>>717385604
Anon, he tells Anakin that Darth Plaguis "taught his apprentice everything he knew [the ability to manipulate life] and then his apprentice killed him in his sleep" - the implication of the scene is that Palpatine is Plageis's apprentice.
I had to look it up (because I don't give a single fuck about Star Wars book lore) and yes, officially, according to Disney canon or whatever, Palpatine is Darth Plagueis' apprentice.

So put two and two together dumb dumb
That means Palpatine knows how to "influence midichlorians to create life"
He's deceiving Anakin by pretending he's not actually Plaguis's apprentice, and that they'll need to work to figure out how to stop Padme from dying (and Anakin doesn't put it together that Palpatine is a Sith lord at all until a bit later in the movie - during the Opera Anakin is only somewhat concerned about Palpatine being into weird Sith shit) ... but he's the apprentice in the story.
You can look on Wookiepedia to confirm this (physically cringing typing that out).

Palpatine tells Anakin all of this in front of a giant visual metaphor for sperm and eggs, and in "the phantom menace" you have Shmi's unexplained pregnancy.
Palpatine actually creating Anakin is up for debate, but it's not up for debate that he's the apprentice in the story, who knows Plaguis's secrets of life manipulation.

>>717386096
The Duro? That guy is a huge douchebag and a sore loser the second he figures out that you are actually better than him.

>>717366429
Its the best star wars media after the OG films, specifically because it doesn't try to emulate them.

>>717367229
Shebeven talks about how the Sith as much as they preach of freeodm only used their power to oppose the Jedi and became dependent on them.

They don't exist on their own they exist only to oppose the jedi as a twisted infatuation. So they will always be an inferior existence.

>>717376503
This guy gets it.

>>717366429
I hate Star Wars cause 6/9 of the main films are George Lucas wanting meaning in a world that cannot function with it. Like look at Grievous, he should be a walking threat no one would smile or joke at, he's killed Jedi, even implied to have killed his very first with his bare hands. However, George Lucas looks at him and says "well uh, he should be a coward and weakling cause he's supposed to represent the weakness Darth Vader will later have due to his injuries". Extended Universe lore and the SW movies are constantly clashing. George wants something thematic however the universe being explained in outside materials ruins it.

>>717386274
>Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Then his apprentice killed him in his sleep.
sounds good to me!
>To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together I know we can discover the secret.
Palpatine is a filthy filthy liar, you can't believe a word he says

>>717386798
You're having the same reaction Luke had on learning Darth Vader was his father.

>>717366334
>I'VE PICKED EVERY DIALOGUE OPTION BUT THE GAME WON'T LET ME WIN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
KOTOR 2 is the biggest brainlet filter in vidya.

>Star Wars EU thread on /v/
>Lucaspurists crying about EU
Just fuck off and wait for your Glupp Shitto movie

the "Palpatine created Anakin using dark force magic" theory is up for debate, there's some strong evidence for it, but it is up for debate. But I like it because, if you buy into it, it makes it seem like he's done in by Padme and Anakin's love affair. Palpatine seems to be the mastermind behind so much, his powerlevel in the prequels is honestly crazy, with what he manages to accomplish, but Padme is the one element he didn't seem to account for. He tries and fails to have her assassinated multiple times in Episode II, and then in Episode III he tries to use Anakin's love for her against him (and basically succeeds), but by that time Padme is bearing Anakin's children, and it's Luke and Leia who destroy the Empire, Luke who rescues his father. The Jedi are also against Anakin and Padme. Just like Yoda and Obi-Wan are against Luke helping his friends. Idk if George really intended this or not, but it's a simple love affair, forbidden love between two people, that saves the galaxy. It's kino as hell tbqh

>>717364328 (OP)
She wants you to be neither Jew or Roman.

>>717388097
>The Jedi are also against Anakin and Padme. Just like Yoda and Obi-Wan are against Luke helping his friends.
I guess where I was going with that, didn't finish the thought, is the idea that both the Jedi and the Sith are assholes. Force powers don't mean anything in the face of love

Kreia is a fucking bitch, and I'm sick of her talking shit about every choice I make. I also can't quit dragging her along with me because she's interesting and is clearly written specifically to attack the underlying roots of Star Wars not to destroy it but to make it stronger. Modern Star Wars could not even dream of having a character that is as interesting.

>>717388371
same lol

>>717387282
we need to go further
[SKILL] options are either further progression or the obviously correct choice, what we need is a system that will actually punish the player for not thinking their lines through (whether they are locked behind skills or events or not)

>>717386274
>Anon, he tells Anakin that Darth Plaguis "taught his apprentice everything he knew [the ability to manipulate life] and then his apprentice killed him in his sleep" - the implication of the scene is that Palpatine is Plageis's apprentice.
Wouldn't he be lying about that?

>>717364562
>breed
Uh, I think it's a little late for that....

>>717388534
Oh hey, Chris actually realized that and did that in Dead Money.

>>717388574
About which part?
There's liek 5 assertions in that quote.
If you meant the part about knowing Plaguis's life manipulation magic, he could be lying about that, but Shmi had an unexplained pregnancy, and the scene where he's explain how his master taught an apprentice everything he knew takes place in front of suggestive sperm and egg imagery.

>>717367804
another half-baked aspect, if we're to speculate on atris-traya model since traya is the one "who was betrayed, and will betray in turn"
the last of the old sith, trying to fulfil some stupid genocidal plan, but being thwarted by the new generation of the force users is an appropriate finale for kreia's keikaku
it's just that the role of that old sith is stuck with kreia, but she might have manipulated atris into picking it up by whispering bitter somethings into her spurned ears

>>717388949
Whats funny is nobody seems to actually understand the schizo rcm scenes with Atris and Kreia. “I have always been here, I was the one who asked him to be exiled” then Atris follows up “she made me… listen to myself”

Essentially, Kreia was gaslighting her and making her think that she was talking to herself. Kreia didn’t ask the Exile to be exiled; “Traya” did and “Traya,” one who “is betrayed and will betray” was Atris’s jungian shadow.

>>717388815
Lying about Plagueis even existing.

>>717389509
Wait until you get a load of this anon nothing in Star Wars is real

>>717389760
Uh, itself literally history that happened a long time ago in a far far galaxy.

>>717389904
Not to imply Star Wars is real history but
>lol he thinks history is real

>>717390573
The lies the jews sell us in textbooks are obviously false but Star Wars was documented on film. We can see the history happening.

>>717380915
This is what Troy Denning actually believes lmao

Seriously though, you're misremembering things. Vergere does not at any point teach Jacen to manipulate people. She teaches him that "questions are more true than answers". She teaches him to rely on his own judgment, and forces him to confront what she believes are problems with his worldview, namely that he externalizes the source of violent selfish desires (The Dark Side) rather than seeing it as something that is inside him.

Her response to him attempting to kill the last dhuryam is characteristic of her real philosophy. She is not just some moral subjectivist edgelord. What she is actually doing is forcing Jacen to take responsibility for his moral judgments and recognize that he cannot simply "fight the Dark Side". And her interpretation of this is clear: she and Jacen are the only ones who take action to prevent the genocide of the enemy in the next book. Vergere, despite her cryptic philosophy, is actually advocating for compassion and serious moral responsibility.

She even explains to Jacen, in the parable about the shadowmoth, that she cannot directly help him but she is watching over him, and he is not alone. She is not intentionally inflicting suffering on him.

>>717379102
it's hilarious how every smugly self-assured suck-up is completely blind to how stories are actually made
between the original movies, scrapped scripts, countless EU stuff, prequels, cartoons, sequels you'll see any number of justifications and recontextualizations, all confident that they've "solved" the force
and fanboys will argue over stupid bullshit, pretending that there is anything beyond blue being a good nice color and red being a naughty evil color

>>717390716
No I mean
according to Eastern philosophy, nothing is real. All is illusion.
Bazinga.

>>717383173
The Chosen One prophecy was unbridled hackery to begin with.

>>717383838
It's funny how KOTOR 2 has some of the best and worst romances in all of RPGs

>>717390742
And I would also add--her comments about choosing which lives are worth saving and which are not, where she asks why she would save the other prisoners, because they are slaves, are followed by Jacen immediately challenging her beliefs and calling her out directly on being "a Sith". Her reply is to repeat that "Everything I tell you is a lie."

This is actually an extremely important point, because usually people don't pay attention to when and why she keeps repeating that quote. But the point is that, just after taking the side of the argument that advocates for regarding human lives as having only "uses" and being merely "slaves", she *says that she is lying*. She is explicitly telling Jacen that she doesn't believe the things she's saying. Readers who interpret her as a Sith completely ignore this: Whenever she asks him a question that sounds morally indifferent or cruel, she admits that she doesn't believe what she's saying.

This is consistent with her actualy actions of virtue and self-sacrifice. She is testing Jacen so that he embraces his own responsibility. She is not luring him to the Dark Side.

>>717386923
Anon is losing his hand?

>>717367219
Will your character be able to beat Malak with this build? KotOR1 is unique in that the last boss is the only big power spike and Filter in the game.

>>717392593
Bound by Flame was like that too.
A rough start but it gets easy after the first act (really easy and less rough if you don't pick the bad build). Then you reach the final boss and it's such a gigantic difficult spike.

>>717392593
Hardest part of the entire game is before that though with the endless spawning enemies and your party being too retarded to move up (and you can’t leave without them).

>>717374746
I'd like a Wookie jedi with their incredible strength. Have we ever got one of those yet?

>>717374419
>>717374723
how did i never figure it out..?

>>717394104
There's a wookie Jedi in that dog shit Acolyte show. He gets mind controlled by the lesbian Force witches and fights the other Jedi. His wookie strength is entirely disregarded for this fight and he is killed in an off screen fight with the show's Sith Lord.

>>717373735
>>717376668
Why did they give him the ASMR voice

>>717364328 (OP)
The best thing to do is be a completely light-sided, hope-pilled character.
Kreia will SEETHE whenever you perform a good act that doesn't benefit yourself, done out of pure kindness.

>>717394575
It's because he was traumatized.
Traumatized...
By Malachor...

I realize now Bao-dur is the first ASMR voice I ever heard

>>717394104
There's been like a dozen.

What does it mean when Kreia days she suffered "indignities"

>>717371260
Can you even get enough influence to change his alignment without raping your own or losing influence with others? It never seemed like a particularly practical thing to try doing.

>>717395826
Sexual torture to humiliate her.

>>717366429
For every interaction just tell her you'll think about it

>>717377362
>Revan is all over 'Republic media' apparently
>nobody recognizes him post-amnesia
Multi-media is one of the worst thing to happen to video game stories, and every day I see a new example to prove it.

>>717369750
That retard that draws nothing but old haggs?
Hes based, a little obsessed however
Fucking jaguar

>>717396572
dude wears a mask all the time

>>717369750
On the one hand I'd like to.
On the other hand....Ew.

>>717388314
>both the Jedi and the Sith are assholes
Influence Gained: Kreia

>>717372387
>>717372830
If Luke had listened to Yoda all his friends would be dead.

>>717366429

They said this when it first released, they had scraped the very ceiling of the franchise Lucas created for all conceivable ideas and concepts at the extremes of it's premise. Its the very reason why KotoR 2 is so damn good, they used everything there was that was worth a shit conceivably in there. Right down to flat out insulting and deconstructing both Jedi and Sith just to illustrate how fucking stupid both sects are.

>blaster pistols get perks from dual wielding (for 2 hands) or dueling (for 1 hand)
>blaster rifles get nothing

>>717384686
>1. Wait for Revan to fuck off
>2. Restart Trayus Academy
>3. Recuit Sith Assassians
>4. Recruit Hungry Boy and Pain Boy
She could do 2 and 4 during Jedi Civil War. Maybe even 3, but I think 3 is just utilizing half-baked sith apprentices from places like Korriban academy, who had nowhere to go, once Darth Malaga got his ass handled to them by Revan.

>>717399086
>if you level up your party before brainwashing them to be Jedi, you make your game way less enjoyable and way more harder.

>>717399086
>only innate advantage of rifles over pistols is slightly greater max range
>99% of enemies will rush to close that gap in less than a turn
Are there any unique rifles that make up for how shit they are as a weapon type? I can only vaguely remember a special disruptor rifle, but even then I think it was just a few extra points of damage.

>>717364328 (OP)
rev

>>717366334
She criticizes you regardless of what you do to test your convictions.

>>717399745
There are a few big boy rifles with insane damage. Zersium Rifles have a base damage of 2d12+1

>>717399745
>>717402069
Here's what it looks like with feats etc

>>717402105
What feats needed?
And any gear for this setup?

>>717395826
Sion's mommy issues came pouring out

>>717392593
He could probably cheese Malak with a ton of mines.

>>717402278
>Feats
Pretty much standard ranged fare: Precise Shot V and Close Combat. I also went Watchman for Sneak Attack but it ended up being pretty overkill.
Master Rapid Shot is the only ranged feat worth caring about due to ranged APR being limited by animations, so Power Shot and Sniper Shot only shoot 1 time regardless of how many attacks you should be making.
>Items
I mostly just geared for DEX and WIS. Craft-wise I'm running
>Crippling Scope 3
>Mandalorian Chamber 3
>Pure Rylith Power Cell
All together it's a pretty fair and balanced build.

>>717382373
jej

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej7AaAVUPjY
underrated track

>>717396634
>nothing but
He draws young roasties too

>>717379464
>do thing
>lose influence
>tell her to fuck off
>lose influence
>repeat
Maybe I don't give a fuck about whatever lesson some decrepit old hag wants to teach me.

>>717364328 (OP)

>>717405005
I've played so much Star Wars games in my life that I now feel nauseous when I hear any kind of heavily orchestral music reminiscent of Star Wars musical identity

>>717388534
>[SKILL] options are either further progression or the obviously correct choice
You deserve Bethesda

>>717365490
Does she though? The Jedi Order is their teachings, which make them sit on their asses and be too afraid to act while the galaxy burns around them. Take those teachings away, and are these Jedi still Jedi at all?

>>717364328 (OP)

>>717364328 (OP)
So the Disciple couldn't physically see her until near the end right?

>>717408675
Reading comprehension bro. Finish reading the post.

>>717368342
>maniquean

>>717409027
The Council is not the Order. The worst of what the Jedi do comes from the top and filters down. This is why Revan ultimately brought the Order down: it took some convincing but the Jedi of the Order eventually realised they didn't actually need the permission of the Council to do the right thing. A Jedi's duty is to life and the Force, not hierarchy and rank.

Why couldn't we live in the timeline where Kotor 3 was made?

EU was such a massive mistake. Everyone's reading of Star Wars in this thread is flat out fucking horrendous and feels like borderline trolling. It's especially amusing when Lucas explicitly explained it everything, and you can specifically see how diametrically opposed your headcanons are to what Star Wars actually is. Star Wars threads are always filled to the brim with extremely stupid people.

>>717410848
No one fucking cares what Lucas thinks about star wars retard. It was good in spite of him. not because of him.
The EU is fucking great and I will fucking fight you.

>>717410891
The only thing you can fight is your massive shadow, fatty.

>the EU was a mistake it's got Star Wars all wrong
>"so anyway Darth Vader is Luke's dad out of nowhere"
>"so anyway Leia is Luke's sister out of nowhere"
>"so anyway the Force is made by tiny little aliens who live in our bodies called the Whills (like the Will of the Force lmao I'm so fucking funny right)"

>>717410848
The EU is the core of Star Wars, everything else just orbits around it.

>>717366429
Most Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

>>717411020
Haha, high five fellow redditor.

>>717410891
>The EU is fucking great and I will fucking fight you
*blocks your path*

>>717411060
>only two movies out of 9 are passable
>none of the spin off movies are good
>only like two shows and cartoons out of dozens are good
>vidya is mostly good thankfully
You heard me nigger.

does anyone else find the last 1/3 of kotor to be a complete slog? it's like the game completely loses all momentum after the leviathan and it feels like a mop up job from then on out.

>>717379458
Kotor (especially 2), is for people who like Star Wars prequels

>>717398605
And?

>>717364328 (OP)
okay so if you are all real Kotor fans
but have you ever been to Kotor

>>717377432
HAHAH-ACK

>>717411082
And..?

>>717412980
He's by far the strongest.

I could do it by spamming plague and moving away from him. If you can succ all his fp its a lot easier.
Going toe to toe with him is excruciating

>>717412980
console babs getting dunked on as usual

>>717364328 (OP)
If Kreya is right about The Force mind-controlling people - then all her actions is The Force's subconscious deathwish at best, The Force's plan to show all important guys, that Kreia and people like her are retarded.
And if Kreia is wrong, then she's s delusional retard endangering all life in the galaxy.
Either way Avellone just hates black-and-white setting and, despite being able to create really good gray ones, just fails to fit in a good black-and-white without trying to subverse it.
KotOR 2 is a good game as a standalone prohect - it is a bad Star Wars game.

>>717364328 (OP)
yes

>>717413474
Kreia’s whole “impossible to please” meme is Avellone being annoyed that players will say “I will play LS which means I will robotically choose all the LS options” or the equivalent with DS. Kreia asking why you did an action is demanding the player put slightly more thought in an action than “unga bunga paragon option blue.”

>>717364328 (OP)
All I know is the second I saw her I knew she was bad, so I didn’t care what she was talking about.

Playing Kotor 2 blind and reaching Nar Shaddaa broke me

It's funny how the Rakata managed to independently reproduced the jedi/sith tribal dichotomy without having access to the force. A fallen race, used by the force for it's own ends then discarded, but still stuck its red team vs blue team trappings. The unkown world is like Kreia's idea of hell.

>>717413743
she is indeed a baddy

>>717413762
>Kotor 2 BROKE me
Sure you weren’t actually playing Mother 3?

>>717413823
I mean I briefly looked at a walkthrough

>>717410848
90% of the people who shit on the EU have barely more than a surface knowledge of it, with even that being from osmosis rather than actually reading/playing it.
It’s why they always resort to posting the vong without elaboration (because they don’t know the actually stupid part about them) Nyax on the assumption that he’s meant to be taken seriously, or Traviss Mandalorians without knowing she was so hated that she was forced out to be inflicted on Halo/GoW

The EU is 50% Skywanking, 25% female characters written by boomers looking like their favourite 80s porn star model, and 25% cringe Han Solo-wannabe self-inserts

>>717364328 (OP)
She wants you to be the Overman.

>>717413762
Did you use the restored content mod? It makes Nar Shaddaa much worse.

>>717414117
That is such a meme. Nothing in the game is hard. It adds like two fight scenes. Make Atton a Jedi prior to that and its easy.

>>717364328 (OP)
She basically wants you to become a 5head fencesitter like Revan, doing your own thing and not being bound to any creed.

>>717414008
Still better then Disney so what does that tell you.

>>717414152
If you don't know what you're doing then it can be very tough. People used to get stuck on the party member parts of the game (especially Atton's) before TSLRCM so adding more of them is obviously going to make things harder. Turning Atton into a jedi doesn't actually do that much for you because he'll be a low level sentinel by that point anyway, and it's easy to completely miss turning him into a jedi on your first playthrough without a guide.

>>717414239
That the EU is still shit

>>717414152
>nothing in the game is hard if you're metagaming

Visas>Handmaiden

>>717414216
need..to..SNIFFFFF

>>717415010
Not incorrect.

https://streamable.com/kjmd13

>>717413683
>demanding the player put slightly more thought in an action than “unga bunga paragon option blue.”
Then Avellone is a fool. Those, who can into roleplay properly, think their actions through even without this. Those, who just blindly follow or even ignore this aspect completely, usually can't and will not be able to anyway.

>>717415591
Sounds like a tranny mick with a voice changer. Visas is still superior. I would even say Visas>Bastila.

>>717414216
I love old hags with banging bodies, the contrast only makes it hotter.

>>717415732
It's actually AI with her voicelines mixed together

>>717415815
Then they need to work on their model. I cloned her voice several times for a mod I made for KoTOR 2.
https://voca.ro/1dzWH13hlWC7
https://voca.ro/193QO9xmspDl

>>717364328 (OP)
neither, you fucking retard, she wants you to help her kill (read: block out) the force so that life is no longer unduly affected by it, you would know this if you had played the fucking game

>>717365202
skill issue, i had no problems with her, in fact it was extremely anticlimactic how quickly and easily she went down without even touching me

>>717416251
You would know that the “kill the force” thing is a lie if you played the game. Its a misconception spread by secondaries. Thats a lie that she told Atris to get you to come to Malachor no matter what your alignment would be. Once you beat her, she tells drops all pretense.

>>717366429
i hate the fuck out of boomer wars and love kotor 2, so this is accurate

>>717383492
>Also, how and why is the Exile different from Nihilus, who has a similar backstory and powers?
he isn't. I think that's the point...

>>717416436
If you recruit Hanharr, they essentially reveal that the primary difference between Nihilus and The Exile is the willingness to take power that does not belong to you; restraint.

>>717383492
>how and why is the Exile different from Nihilus
The Exile cut himself off from the Force to survive. Nihilus didn't yet survived anyway. One is a scabbed over scar, the other is a gaping bleeding hole.

>>717367470
this is pretty ironic because this brand of nihilism is EXACTLY what retards here falsely portrayed kreia as for YEARS

>>717369947
>crpg
there's that retarded zoomer nigger misnomer misterm again

VGH...what could have been..

>>717370986
sith holocrons are basically just rabbi conjectures contained inside the talmud
basically atris keeps the most complete copy of the star wars talmud in her room

>>717416334
you need to work on your reading comprehension, ESL retard- くん
reread my post slowly and carefully this time, make sure you understand EVERY word

>>717417138
The irony of this post is palpable

>>717366429
I loved Star Wars as a kid and I loved Kotor 2 when it came out. There's nothing wrong with the franchise being used as a vehicle to discuss free will and destiny. My only problem is its unfinished state, which the Restoration patch can only bandaid so much.

>>717417549
Its a shame that G0T0 is so lame and overshadowed by everyone not named Bao Dur. He has a lot of great lines and is pretty interesting.
>Is that a compliment?
>I don’t give compliments. I make observations. …but if it was I would never admit it… bakka…

>>717417549
Its a shame that G0T0 is so lame and overshadowed by everyone not named Bao Dur. He has a lot of great lines and is pretty interesting.
>Is that a compliment?
>I don’t give compliments. I make observations. …but if it was I would never admit it… baka…

>>717417720
you went through the effort of reposting this over a small spelling mistake

>>717364328 (OP)
Neither. Which makes the whole game pointless. Why play a Star War if you're not going to be a Jedi/Sith?

>>717417759
Yes.

>>717366429
Oh you TRIGGERED the Gen-X gurlies with this, huh?

>>717383656
That doesn't explain you getting XP from droids tho

>>717418098
Kreia mentions something about “even within machines there are echoes”

>>717380576
She'd have turned the entire galaxy into the fucking Vong, so no. No, she wasn't.

Why so many Kotor threads lately?

Post more Kreia lewds

>>717418443
It's the exact same few people making them over and over again and circlejerk the exact same things. Same posts, same questions, same discussions, same pictures. There is nothing interesting in these threads.

>>717418443
they're fun games with cute girls and cool stories

>>717418689
>t. Kreia

>>717418152
That sounds like a hand wave.
You'd get XP for destroying a chair or something.

>>717418489
This Kreia lewds thread is severely lacking in them.

Visas Marr is best girl

>>717419968
handmaidens hands on my PENIS

>>717419968
>>717415010
What is the point of fighting for the second place

I can't imagine many actually would if the granny was real.