>defeated by a child
Even if he really was not fighting in full force, Asgore's plan may be retarded. Unless power of 7 souls is incredibly strong, what was he thinking?

A monster with even a single soul is incredibly strong. The monsters didn’t get a single kill in the war, if they had, it would’ve snowballed into them winning.

The child had god powers THOUGH

>>717428694 (OP)
>Unless power of 7 souls is incredibly strong,
Did you even play the game? This question gets answered. Extensively. In multiple different routes.

he didnt want to win or he would had absorbed the 6 souls and rape your ass

>>717429185
currently in true labs

>>717429010
If they didn't get single kill then why call it war? Call it massacre and slaughter because Undertale monsters are complete jobbers to fighting.

>>717429451
Toby likes Japan and tries to imitate their way of speaking that includes genocide denial

toriel's criticism was retarded because the souls are shown to have the capability of rebelling if there's any less than 7 of them at the same time. you don't hate her enough.

>>717429451
The monsters are Hamas and humans are israelis

>>717429576
she doesnt know that though, and it can be they can only rebel because flowey is literally soulless

>>717429010
The war is a big unknown, I mean Undyne can suplex a boulder shes obviously stronger than any human. Even if it is the case where every human even children are more powerful than monsters, the best route would be to never let monsters out of the underground because of the potential of one obtaining god like powers.

>>717428694 (OP)
Hes a moral coward, even Toriel points out he could have left the underground with one soul and collected more instead of crying in the underground waiting for random children to show up to murder.

>>717430247
>le one soul
and then what? what he will do? humans will pobably drown him in bodies. Asgore did nothing wrong

>>717430247
Monsters are retarded and only attack your soul using magic when undyne could just walk up and twist your head off

despite this their magic is too weak to compete with some random human wizards who locked them in the cuck cage

>>717428694 (OP)
Asgore was already destroyed emotionally when you met him.

>>717429407
nigger it gets answered in waterfall, and the game beats you over the head with it.

>>717428694 (OP)
>

>>717435949
le xDDD

Was Yellow any good?

>>717437261
idk, i just finished undertale and thinking about trying yellow

>>717428694 (OP)
Every character in the game is defeated by a child

>>717429576
I appreciate Toby trying to make it more clear to toriel fags that she was never right.

"Bro just leave with one soul, "get" six more souls and you won't have to kill anyone!"
Uh yeah how does he get the souls? Does he just wait for someone to die of old age and snag it before they're fully dead? Stupid ass goat. Even asriel knew that plan was stupid.

Should be even more telling of what toriel is like when the only person who agreed with her plan was chara, and that did not turn out so hot. "Just because the only person to agree with her is also inherently evil and vengeful against humanity doesn't mean she's wrong!!! Stinky Asgore is wrong!!!"

>>717428694 (OP)
if monsters lose the will to battle they can be killed easily
Asgore is weak of mind
He would have freed everyone himself if he wasn't

>>717437261
It was linearly developed by 16 year old fandom people and the game shows that. The later something was developed for ut yellow, the better it's written. Unironically genocide has the best ending because it was done when they were in their 20's. Pacifst has a genuinely dog shit ending and terrible writing because it was the first one.

They then had to much tranny fag infighting drama to go back and fix the earlier areas (they suck regardless of your route) and the dog shit writing from the pacifist route. So you get this weird piece of media that unintentionally shows the creative growth of the people who worked on it, usually to it's detriment.

>>717438910
Think it'll ever get fixed?

>>717439132
No.

>>717428694 (OP)
Almost all of the "Asgore is actually the strongest monster ever and could have easily killed you" talk comes from people misunderstanding/speedreading Floweys dialogue and not realizing he was talking about Sans.

>>717428694 (OP)
>knight tells Kris he'll come to Noelle's house
>Asgore shows up immediately after for no reason
>people still hold on to Dess headcanon

>>717439256
Eh. Maybe someone will pick it up at some point.

>>717439338
asgore is too pathetic and obese
the knight is skinny

>>717439338
>knight tells Kris
big assumption

>>717439358
I will say if you're a true red blooded white skinned UT and DR supremacist then running the genocide route for UT yellow can be serviceable. It's just insanely ridiculously overhyped, and in certain non /v/ circles seen as "on par" with the actual games. This is because the game has a few wifeable cuties so schizo's defend it with their lives. Everything else i've said still applies though, so keep that in mind.

I'll play yellow but only killing the women

>>717439637
ceroba is best girl

>>717437261
It was fine but still obviously a fan game. I've played worse, but I only played it because it's free.

Monsters are weak little bitches. There was no reality in which they could've won. Asgore is a loser, and so was his hoe.

>>717439338
Asgore was already in the house when that call was made

>>717439320
All of the monsters speak about Asgores power. Asgore is, within the canon of undertale, the most powerful living monster in the underground. He has a boss monster soul and is just genuinely strong. Frisk/Chara are just that powerful, you're pure determination which in particular seems to be a foil to monsters. They can't even handle it themselves without melting or dying.

The switch up isn't "asgores actually a weak baby!" It's "frisk/chara is actually really powerful wtf". Asgore killed 6 other humans with strong souls, you're just that much stronger than those previous humans thanks in part to having determination be your defining trait.

>>717440253
all those humans died on the way, asgore never killed any kids

>>717438439
>doesn't even know what she said
>still talks shit about her
She's talking about the fact that he chose to do nothing but wait for humans to fall into the underground to kill them. Because he had the means to go and collect all the souls the moment he killed the first kid.

She's berating him for being a spineless wimp who could neither tell the monsters he had a change of heart and wasn't going to free them anymore, yet still sat around killing children while desperately hoping no more would fall down. If he was going to destroy humanity he could've done it by now. If he wasn't he should've said so. He picked the worst possible compromise between those two choices.

>>717440347
Asgore killed all of them. It's one of the first things Toby confirmed.

>>717440528
that's dumb, he should have written the game better

>>717428694 (OP)
>Unless power of 7 souls is incredibly strong,
It is. A single SOUL would have been enough to tip the scales of the war. Flowey with just six is basically unstoppable until Frisk gets them to rebel against him, and Asriel with 6 + the entire Underground (roughly equal to 1 human SOUL) is literally invincible to everything in the entire setting and had to be convinced into giving up. 7 souls would have made Asgore completely unstoppable.

>>717440410
Your interpretation is right, but toriel is still wrong. Asgore is also wrong. This is the point. But one had furry tits and is a mommy so everyone sides with her despite her also being wrong.

>>717435949
I unironically love this meme

>>717440347
Asgore killed them. They get brought to him, the reason their shit is lying around is 1) it's a video game and 2) that's where they got captured and brought to Asgore.

>>717429010
Undertale's world wasn't meant to make sense in a way that Deltarune's world does.

>>717430561
>humans will pobably drown him in bodies
So just.
Take 6 of those.

>>717439420
People's looks change in the dark world and the knight in particular is a shapeshifter capable of compressing himself into a tiny ball way smaller than his usual size.
By the way, remember how the closet in the church, which you inspect right after the knight disappears and which "a large person can fit inside"? That's not skinny Dess, that's fat fuck Asgore.
And pathetic? He's a boss monster who was discharged from the police for reasons Kris can't even read about. Probably hardcore police brutality.

>>717440751
Congrats, you left the underground by killing a bunch of humans in the human world! Now the humans are ready to kill you again!

The only reason the true ending happens is because we found a peaceful way to return. Asgore rolling up and killing a bunch of humans in a human city to break the barrier would just make humans afraid of them again.

>>717440726
>They get brought to him
>that's where they got captured
that's kinda messed up, they had to go through toriel's house to get the first kid

just finished, perfect pacifist
man
it was happy ending yet i still felt sad
why are we stuck here with no cute monsters
>>717440751
shit i wasn't thinking about it

>>717440935
"Hush my child, you'll be safe in the ruins with me"
"DON'T FORGET YOUR EGGS-HUSBAND :-D"

If monsters never obtained a single human soul how did they even know they could do so in the first place and how the hell did they know that specifically seven souls would make you a god?

>>717440940
"Perfect pacifist"? So just the pacifist ending where the barrier is still up but everyones alive? Or the true pacifist ending?

>>717441097
>and how the hell did they know that specifically seven souls would make you a god?
They didn't, seven souls are needed to break the barrier. 1 soul is enough to give a human the ability to warp time, 6 souls made Flowey a god (until they rebelled), who knows what 2-5 souls can do.

>>717441182
true, true pacifist, sorry

>>717441097
Probably happened in the past. Humans were aware of this fact and drove monsters out because they were afraid of it happening, which implies they either knew, or it had happened in the past. Something caused the humans to wage war against monsters due to the fear of their souls being snatched for epic power, that doesn't usually just happen for no reason

>>717441097
They just assumed they needed 7 souls since it took 7 human sorcerers to create the barrier

>>717428694 (OP)

Boning Toriel.

>>717438910
The pacifist route as a whole was fun after the ruins, its only the writing of everything after cerobas fight that is actual dogshit. Theres bad moments before that but the dunes were good, steamworks were good and cerobas actual fight was really damn good. It managed to get me emotionally hyped enough to WANT the post fight scene to be fixed which means it did some things right.

>>717440912
Dude, 7 human souls + a monster became a god that Frisk(with a fuck load of determination+the player) couldn't hit, and was simultaneously ending the world. They had to talk no justu out of it.

>>717441482
>they had to talk no justsu
Uh yeah. They had to find a peaceful solution. Like I said.

What is your point? I think you misunderstood me or something.

>>717428694 (OP)
There's cliché lazy lore dump records explaining it to you in the most clear way possible
Undertale give zero room for interpretation outside of ohhh spoopy gaster red herring crap

>>717428694 (OP)
He simply can't compete with HUMANITY, moreover a child

If you move the MERCY button on the UI then when Asgore goes to destroy it he misses and it softlocks the game

>>717441584
I'm just saying, hoomans would lose.

>>717441775
"7 human souls were enough to make a god we couldn't touch, so asgore would just win and beat all the humans"

Man luckily there isn't more than 7 humans with souls in the world..... oh wait..... man sure hope 7 humans don't get together and make their own god of hyperdeath or anything.....

>>717441775
>hoomans would lo-
>*dies to child with plastic knife*

>>717441872
Who, Asriel? Frisk couldn't hit him.

>>717441904
and yet asriel lost... curious... most curious...

>>717428694 (OP)
I didn't understand what was happening in that game and I'm unsure if I care

>>717441974
Because of Talk no Jutsu, and Asriel being a child. We're talking about if Asgore was an actual leader and wanted to get revenge on hoomans.

>>717428694 (OP)
Frisk is strong and special. She would also destroy thr Fun Gang. Asgord losing to her isn't an anti-feat as he beat the other six kids.

>>717428694 (OP)
he wasn't actually going to do his plan he was just a coward mourning his child

>>717441765
huh, i was thinking it's just an animation
>>717441974
>lost
more like we talked sense into him
he was fucking God, not these fantasy gods which have limited power, but like God Almighty

>>717429730
Yeah. Asriel was surprised Chara had control of their body.

>>717442163
>>717442296
nothing was even said to asriel, he just gave up because monsters are soft little bitches

>tranny has arrived
Abandon thread.

>>717439358
There is a mod, Shades of Justice, that tries to do that.

>>717442479
>tranny has arrived
Yeah... in an Undertale thread that sure narrows it down

>>717441482
The God Of Hyperdeath wasn't actually trying to destroy anything. It was Asriel with all his emotions restored after decades/centuries without them having the mother of all temper tantrums at what he mistakenly believed was his adopted sister.

Frisk also can't damage the Amalgamates in the True Lab for the same reason he can't damage Asriel: monsters are damaged by violent intentions and in True Pacifist you've proven that Frisk absolutely does not want to hurt anyone. It's the game itself subtly telling you, the player, you've made your choice and you can't back out of it now.

>>717442367
yeah, GAVE UP, not defeated
>nothing was even said
We showed him kindness and love

Who’d win in a fight. Hyped up based Asgore not holding back or just some guy?

>>717442504

>>717442546
so even with the souls he's not really shit, just gave up in like 5 minutes. also since a village full of humans with shitty pitchforks and torches killed him the first time, one person with a gun could probably fuck any of them up even with a soul

Did Chara have any way of knowing that she would maintain partial control over the shared body after her soul was combined with Asriel's? If no, then wouldn't that mean that her intentions really were to just get the 6 souls and free monsters?

>>717442718
>also since a village full of humans with shitty pitchforks and torches killed him the first time,
he was a kid
he was actively resisting chara's autistic urge to kill everyone
>so even with the souls he's not really shit, just gave up in like 5 minutes.
his own decision, frisk, possibly strongest human couldn't even hope to defeat him

>>717442718
>a village full of humans with shitty pitchforks and torches
Literally nothing says the humans didn't have guns besides idiots somehow mistaking "village" with "exclusively medieval tier technology"

>>717440912
Asgore literally promised a war to his people, though.

>>717428694 (OP)
>Unless power of 7 souls is incredibly strong, what was he thinking?
Yes it is

>>717442540
>Frisk also can't damage the Amalgamates in the True Lab for the same reason he can't damage Asriel: monsters are damaged by violent intentions and in True Pacifist you've proven that Frisk absolutely does not want to hurt anyone.
this is kind of loose since you can get true pacifist by hurting people, still. you just don't have to kill them.

>>717443061
it happened a long ass time ago in the game, anon, and village is a small amount of people too, it's not he fell into a city or something. the point is, if a monster tried to do anything substantial they'd get fucked by a missile to the face

>>717441836
Humans can't absorb human SOULs.

>>717441836
The strength comes from having a monster soul and a human soul, not just having a bunch of human souls. Realistically, a warmonger Asgore that doesn't care about co-existence would just sneak attack and sweep the nearest town and the monsters with a shit ton of souls just snowballs and wipes out humanity.

>>717442718
Did you even play the game? Chara was the one moving Asriel's body and wanted to go full murderhobo on the village but Asriel held her back and basically made them sit there and take all the damage. If they actually fought for real then it would have been no sweat.

>>717442749
Based on the information we have, it's impossible for that to be the case. But it's also likely there was a revenge fantasy at work. Asriel said Chara straight up hated humans, and he'd know best since they were merged together.
There is the possibility that Chara herself loaded and reset numerous times to find that information out, but if you accept that headcanon then it puts all of Chara's actions into a new context that way.

>>717442479
But (you) are already in it?

>>717443198
>Did you even play the game? Chara was the one moving Asriel's body and wanted to go full murderhobo on the village but Asriel held her back and basically made them sit there and take all the damage. If they actually fought for real then it would have been no sweat.
yeah he didn't do anything, but it was still possible for a small village to kill him, that's not exactly godlike

>>717442749
There's not enough information, but Chara was the one who was immediately in control of the body, so...

>chara has partial control over asriel
>the souls managed to rebel against flowey with determination
if asgore genuinely did go through with his plan and killed frisk, would it even have worked? i feel like swallowing up the ghosts of a bunch of kids you murdered and giving them control over your body is like, a really bad idea. asriel had to tank a bunch of attacks to resist chara sperging out, why couldn't he have just run away if he had any significant control? it's probably been a long long while since there was any living memory (if there ever actually was) of a monster absorbing a human soul, i feel like it would be fitting if it genuinely was just fear and paranoia that drove the humans to lock away the monsters.

>>717443354
I think another implication is that because chara and asriel were at odds with each other, they didn't truly bind. They're buried separately so they returned to 2 bodies at some point. So it would make sense to say that a lot of that damage was just chara and asriels life force being wasted on a crazy transformation they got booted out of (with asriel actively fighting chara for control, which probably also used a ton of energy)

>>717442749
Chara’s “genius plan” involved betting that Asriel was so indebted to her and he’d kill six other humans, become a god and wipe out the rest of humanity. The fact that Chara DIDN’T undergo ego death was just a happy little accident and she’d have no way of knowing beforehand

>>717439320
Which dialogue? Pre-Omega? That's squarely about Asgore.

Chara is the worst part of Undertale and should've never been included

*Cough cough*
frisk is a boy
chara is boy
kris is a boy
thank you

>be Asriel
>agree to your best friend’s demented plan to “save everyone”
>watch as she eats poisonous flowers to shit herself to death
>absorb her soul
>make know attempt to resist as she uses your body to walk towards the human village knowing exactly what’s going to happen next
>finally get there surrounded by a mob of angry humans
>”y-you on second thought maybe we shouldn’t do this”
>die
They truly deserve each other

>>717443740
...said 2016 era fanon Sans, as he had another flashback to the aborted genocide route.

>>717440747
this is just cope

>>717443842
Chara is my personal anal slut, Frisk is Undyne's superior yuri lover, and Kris is the caged prince (girl).

>>717444010
Says me right now because the genocide ending is retarded

>>717443842
>Incorrect
>Incorrect
>Correct.
1/3rd right. Failing grade. Sorry anon, try again.

>>717444123
Kris is the only girl there thoughbeit

>>717444164
You win biggest contrarian award. Congrats.

kris and frisk are boys
chara is a girl
why? because of their names, i can't imagine male named chara or girls named frisk and krus

Reminder that even though Omega Flowey loses because the Souls rebel against him, he still gets more than enough time to fuck with Frisk for his own amusement.

If Chara can end the world with a single knife slash I think a 7 Soul Boss Monster can cast Break Barrier and Kill Humanity before they lose control.

>gendershit
shut up

>>717444271
Kris is literally the name of a girl in Pokemon (Toby loves it) and Frisky is a girlie ass nickname.

>>717444221
Literally the only people who want Kris to be a boy are self inserting shipfags. And I'm not even coming at this from the perspective of 'muh kris vs player' shit. I just hate shipfags

>>717444404
Yeah, but you said boy Frisk and Chara are legit when it's even more self-inserters that want that.

i want kris to be nonbinary but only because i wanna self insert as him getting fucked in his pussy by spam tong

>>717440410
>If he wasn't he should've said so.
Monsters canonically need hope to function. Asgore saying "lol sorry guys we aren't leaving" would have crippled the Underground, something Toriel should have known as the former queen. I don't understand how she thinks she can take any sort of moral high ground when her solution to an impossible issue was to fucking run away and hide like a coward.

>>717444468
Maybe, but Krisfags are the most obnoxious currently

>>717443587
All Assgore needed to do after absorbing the souls was turn around and break the barrier. The little shits would probably need a minute or two before they could start resisting

>>717443940
>her

>>717429532
kek

>>717444510
You should think of all the humans as girls, then.

>>717444670
I don't really think of them as anything, I just think it's funny some people even care about that

spamton and tenna honestly were mistakes, now ut/dr is even more filled with fucking fujos

>>717444840
SpamCHRIST is the soul of Deltarune

>>717444840
Toby needs to satiate the fujos so they won’t get mad at him for when he doesn’t make suselle canon

>>717443940
>know

>>717443139
he only had 6 btw

>>717445192
do not let mini kris near noelle

>>717444840
Sans mogs all those because he had yumejos on his dick instead.

>>717445192
>fujos
>getting mad due to a lack of yuri
gruh?

>>717444482
>him getting fucked in his pussy
We call that "cuntboy", anon.

>>717445192
Fujos don't care about suselle thougheverbeit

>>717444840
I don't care, they're still better than yurifags

>>717444840
he did it for that sweet fujobux anon

>>717443940
Look, just because he said he wanted to know the face of every person he saw doesn't always mean they actually intend to do horrific mass murder.

>>717429010
If they never got a single kill, how do they already know what would happen?

>>717449626
ancestral knowledge

is toby actually going to have kris as a candidate for the second hero/ the girl? on one hand kris fits far too well for it to just a coincidence and toby somehow didn't notice, but on the other i don't know if toby has the balls to tell the non-binary sycophants that they made all that shit up in their heads and neither the game, nor himself ever said that

>>717449934
No, Toby doesn't have the balls to actually gender any of the humans.

>>717449934
no
that would be retarded
kris is the cage

>>717428694 (OP)
We literally see in game that absorbing 7 human souls makes you invincible

>>717449934
>toby reveals that kris isn't actually the cage
>kris is actually the prince

>>717449934
>on one hand kris fits far too well
In what way?

>>717429576
>>717438439
>>717440410
>>717440659
>>717444486
Have you lot still not figured out that entire part is Toby covering his ass on a plot hole? Even I found myself thinking "Wait if one soul lets you cross the barrier and seven lets you destroy it. Just cross the barrier with the one, get six more (with force, why not) and then destroy it".

>>717450134
uses swords, wears ribbons
LOVE/love has found its way to her by way of (you)/ susie, remember that love can be romantic or platonic
hope crossed on her heart can be interpreted as written on, like what susie thinks it is, or crossed as in crossed out, the prophecy is vague enough for both meanings
the biggest point of contention is that we don't have explicit confirmation that kris is female, although there are a handful of possible hints, like kris being the only one to be able to wear the delicate gloves of the princess ribbon, and being pronounced cookie and wife by lancer

>>717450116
Kris will be the prince, the cage AND the girl at the same time.

why does ralsei's robe has a heart on it?
like the girl who finds love?

Asgore unironically made no mistakes.
Asriel went to the surface with one soul and died.
Then he absorbed six souls which rebelled and overpowered him.
Then he absorbed the equivalent of seven souls and became literally invincible.

>>717450241
>dude just go out and kill some humans, they won't try to like seal us again or completely wipe us out or anything.
You're retarded.

>>717450116
toby's enough of a weeb to make kris a prince like utena though

>>717450508
Asriel only lost to the humans because he refused to listen to Chara.

>>717450241
>asriel went up and died because he didn't fought back (one soul)
>asgore goes up and gives it all (one soul)
>???
this case, however, was only possible at the time asriel died and he declared war
since there is no timeframe between that and the first human soul collected, it can only be assumed that he had the time to backpedal on it... and by that time, the entire underground believed that it was the only solution, a solution that he didn't want anymore
hence why he is a big pushover

>>717439338
Crazy how being the badass knight phone person who sacrifices cops, the moment that he gets on the couch with Susie holding the guitar that he was supposed to stop he does nothing about it instead and just eats treats.

>>717440410
>cowardly woman calls out the cowardly man
Just because he's spineless she gets away with it

>>717450241
First action monsters do hundreds of years after the war is start killing random people, surely no geopolitical implications could come from this. Are you genuinely retarded?

I want a game set in the war

>>717449934
Toby already gave himself an out by saying the original prophecy was lost to time.

>>717452185
This. I have been thinking about it since 2015. After Deltarune, Toby should just turn his team into a studio and let them go ham and expand shit like this.

>>717452185
>>717452316
Toby has already officially endorsed fan games and part of Gerson's message was how it's okay to just make your own stories.
You want a game set in the war, make it yourself. It's no less valid than what Toby could do, according to Toby himself.

>>717450508
>Asriel went to the surface with one soul and died
He didn't fought back, though.

>>717452405
But can I monetize it?

>>717452405
>Hurr durr just make it yourself
Nice thought terminating cliche, faggot. Can't a nigga express interest in a hypothetical game or idea?

>>717452414
Still, if some peasants with pitchforks can kill the monster with a human soul oooh scary it cant be that bad after all

>>717452414
why didnt he cast a defensive magic spell

>>717452589
There were cellphones and VHS tapes when Asriel died, anon.

>>717452764
So they had guns? Does it take place in america?

>>717429532
>toby fucks actually hates k*reans and chinks
wtf i love toby even more now

>>717452764
Not helping your case.
My greater point was that even when He absorbed the six souls; the souls still overpowered him, so Asgore was Correct to wait for seven.

>>717452764
Do we know that for a fact? Asgore and Toriel stopped aging when Asriel died

>>717435949
>>717440676
Toriel propaganda.

>>717453109
Yes
Gerson said so

>>717453109
Think back on how you even know about Asriel’s and Chara's backstreet. What we use to see them.

>>717453109
>Asgore and Toriel stopped aging when Asriel died
What does that have to do with what the anon said? We have recorded videos of Asriel, meaning that by the time he died, advanced technology already existed.

>>717453109
The first tape is from when Toriel was pregnant with Asriel.

>>717453328
>>717453293
>>717453256
>>717453219
ok I was wrong stop piling up

>>717453381
I genuinely want to know what your logic process was, what does them physically aging have to do with the development of technology?

>>717453501
Well my logic was that since toriel and asgore stopped aging we couldnt use them still being alive to deduce that their son was alive recently and not 300 years ago, but I forgot about the tapes

Has there been a single interesting theory to come out in the two months after 3-4?

Make them pay, brother.

>>717453823
This is my most anticipated thing from the rest of the game
To know if Toby intended for us to hate Sans now or if he will do a 180

>>717444840
>close friends
>business partners
>"g-guys they were totall gay homosexers"
fuck this fandom

>>717453906
I'm almost positive he did intend it. Toby has always found it funny that the internet latched on to Sans, and now he's showing everyone WHY it's funny.
Looking forward to the fallout when Sans tells Kris that "he isn't Toriel's kid".

>>717454243
He likes when people like Sans.

>>717453752
Hussie theory

Reminder that intent matters a lot.
Asgore just wanted to reach a compromise that would give his people hope while hopefully delaying an actual war for as much as possible, he has to take the rest of monsterkind into consideration because he's the fucking king while also knowing full well that actual war against mankind would be certain death no matter what (Gerson even mentions him and Asgore had agreed that escaping would be a terrible idea.)
>Long ago, ASGORE and I agreed that escaping would be pointless...
>Since once we left, humans would just kill us.
Toriel on the other hand wanted to spite Asgore and her kingdom, and have her perfect mother roleplay, her main priorities were just those two things and nothing else. She doesn't really care about the fallen children she takes in, the moment they try to leave her roleplaying session she burns them up a bit then tells them to fuck off and kill some monsters on their way out. We know that regardless of any circumstances that Asgore is pussywhipped and will do anything for Toriel, so it's really likely that had Toriel actually wanted to put a stop to the war, she could have either waited some time for Asgore to calm down or have escorted the first kid through the underground, an underground where monsters would still recognize her as queen, the one who made all of the actual decisions as said by Gerson. People would have listened to her, Asgore would have listened to her, and no human or monster would have died, but none of that would have truly shown Asgore, wouldn't it? Instead, she lets it all happen so that at the end after multiple human children and countless monsters have died she can smugly lecture him. She gets to win the moral argument in her mind at the cost of many lives.
Asgore's intent was good at the end of the day, trying to give his people, who literally depend on hopes and dreams to live, something to latch on. Toriel's intent was to BTFO her ex regardless of anything else.

>>717454519
What, that the black knight is a 30 (wait fuck me) 40 year old burned out e-boy?

>>717453906
>>717454243
>>717453823
Toby 100% isn't going to make you dislike Sans on any level. Chapter 5 will end up with him and Asgore making peace, and with Asgore probably accepting the fact he is divorced and won't get Toriel back.
Sans is supposed to be nostalgic and longing towards his time on Deltarune when he is in Undertale, if you're to believe the whole Place Where it Rained Sans Deltarune thing, so he has to get completely attached to the people of Hometown in a positive way for that to have any effect.

>>717454804
The games about Toby's experience living with Hussie as his music/bang maid, and dealing with his family

notice how asgorefags have to rely on whoriel to make their boy look good

>>717455042
what is this, schizophrenia for ants?

>>717454706
It pisses me off that the retards ITT that are convinced toriel is right won't read this.

>>717455064
T.
>strongest whoriel lover

>>717455279
predictabo

>>717454885
Ill be ok with this if they give Asgore a new gf

>>717455365

>>717455365
Or he can just be happy on his own.

>>717454706
>People would have listened to her, Asgore would have listened to her, and no human or monster would have died,
This is debunked by any neutral ending where you kill Papyrus, Undyne or more than ten monsters. Once Toriel becomes Queen and enacts a peace policy, monsters are so pissed that they overthrow her because they can't accept peace after everything you did. Now double that with losing the kingdom's prince and the human child they took in. Monsters wouldn't accept Toriel’s peace at all.

>>717455158
Thanks, my file conversion fucked up the resolution on my collage

>>717455452
He is a family man and misses his family. He is not the type of guy that can be happy alone

>>717429451
>why call it war?
Because the humans won and that's how they wrote how they won.

>>717453752
Depends on what you think is interesting.

>>717455507
He seemed fine in UT True Pacifist.

>>717455365
>>717455452
it would be funny if asgore gets with alphys
toriel would seethe about it and alphys being kris' stepmom sounds hilarious

>>717455452
A family man ain't happy without a family. A man can handle being alone, but Asgore clearly needs connection.

>>717455420
>Toby only bothered uploading Maddie's battle theme today
Hmmmm

>>717443695
In genocide he talks about killing everyone but sans always stops him from getting the souls

>>717430247
People are making the terrible mistake of assuming that humans in UT/DR are the same ones in real life when they could just be your average jrpg humans. You know, the one if given the chance can and will kill god in their setting if they fall out of line. The seven wizards in the backstory were already really powerful where it takes the might of a god to break the barrier.

>>717452185
>>717452405
Is there any base package to make undertale/deltarune style games
I would love to tackle something like that
I need something to pour some passion into, otherwise I might jump under a car or something

>>717454706
Continuing since my post reached the character cap, Deltarune Toriel is important for this point because it shows that even with the tragedy of Asriel and Chara's death removed, she's still a spiteful alcoholic cunt who loses interest in anyone close to her that doesn't go along with her shit.
This actually makes her worse than someone like Ceroba from UTY. Bad writing aside, Ceroba's fuck ups in that game are reliant entirely on shit that happened to her, she lost her husband and it made her act retarded and drove her to desperate measures. Remove that tragedy from her backstory in something like a DRY take and you'd have to make a huge fucking reach to put her in the same situation she is in during UTY (Alcoholic and willing to kill a kid). Remove the tragedy out of Toriel's backstory and she's still a nasty spiteful cunt.
And since I'm bringing up Ceroba, funnily enough nothing bad would have even happened with her if Toriel had done her fucking job as queen right.
>>717455470
That's because
>You just killed a bunch of fucking people.
>Toriel hadn't been seen by anyone for AGES to the point that the current generation of monsters can't recognize her as such, as seen in the True Pacifist ending.
So this cunt nobody knows (except Sans who won't do shit) shows up out of nowhere, declares herself queen and says that despite the fact that a human just killed a bunch of monsters including the king and fucked off, that now they have to bend over for humans, of fucking course they're going to be fucking pissed.

>>717455636
It would be even more funny if Alphys turns out to be Susie's guardian.

>>717455749
Undertale engine is a thing

>>717455470
The difference is in the flawed neutral ending all the monsters have no hope (which they genuinely require to function) have been stewing in their shitty circumstances AND payrus or undyne got killed by you. Then toriel shows back up and goes "yeah were not opening the barrier and also the human that killed one of the pillars of the small community we have left gets special treatment. We gotta be better". No shit people wouldn't accept that given the context. If Toriel acted sooner to asriels death and before any other humans fell down it wouldn't have been the same result.

>>717455805
>So this cunt nobody knows (except Sans who won't do shit) shows up out of nowhere, declares herself queen and says that despite the fact that a human just killed a bunch of monsters including the king and fucked off, that now they have to bend over for humans, of fucking course they're going to be fucking pissed.
Gerson and other older monsters know her. Case in point, if monsters get mad enough to overthrow her when you kill Undyne, who isn't even royalty, I don't think they would accept peace after they killed the freaking prince.

>>717455912
I'll look it up as soon as I get home from work
I had a surge of cool ideas and I think it could be a great thing if I can realize it

>>717455565
>true pacifist
He's an awkward guy that literally doesn't know what to do with himself and gets buck broken some more by toriel. Anime saves him

>>717455950
>(which they genuinely require to function)
You have been consuming too much fanfic. Nothing in the game says that a monster dies without hope.

>>717455691
Tobert.... Forgot????

>>717456025
Also underecreator
I literally just googled "undertale maker" I dont know which one is actually good

>>717455953
>and other older monsters
Such as? Also Gerson really has no reason to go bat for her or even get out of his shop, and he's just one guy vs an angry mob.
>if monsters get mad enough to overthrow her when you kill Undyne, who isn't even royalty
She's the VERY popular captain of the royal guard.
Your point is insanely retarded and requires tons of context to be ignored.

>>717456026
They're on better terms after TP, according to the alarm clocks, anyway. They have a nice moment when remembering Chara.

>>717456038
>it's just fandom
The strength of monsters souls are directly tied to their emotional state. If they don't have hope and are depressed directionless doomers they literally become more physically vulnerable. That's why betrayal is the most effective way to kill them in one shot as a child, you give them some hope and a dream (in this case humans and monsters getting along) and then you crush it by attempting to kill them. This is all ingame info, and asgore is VERY particular about making sure monsters have hope and something to dream about that they actually believe may happen.

>>717456228
The point is that Toriel isn't a complete ghost. There's enough people that can attest to her authority, and thus monster would respect her. They still do, if you don’t kill anyone.
>She's the VERY popular captain of the royal guard.
Yes, she's popular. But she isn’t as popular as the prince, who still has monuments of him to this day and monsters who routinely tell the story of his demise hundreds of years later. Case in point, I can't see the monsters accepting no fighting back just after their prince died, and had no way of escaping the underground with Chara dead.

>>717456528
>If they don't have hope and are depressed directionless doomers they literally become more physically vulnerable.
Again, lay off the fanon. What the library book says is that when a monster doesn't want to fight, their defenses weaken. Nothing to do with hope.

>>717456701
Grok is this anon media illiterate?

>>717457034
Lmfao

If 7 human souls makes a monster a god. WTF happens if a monster gets more than 7 human souls?
Do they become super god?
Diminishing returns?
Or it just stops at 7?

When's the newsletter? September?

>>717456528
If I recall, using monster's biology is how we can make them stop fighting without resorting to obliterating them.

>>717442540
Conversely, 6 souls Flowey, who had no inhibitions to his murderous intent, can and does actually kill the shit out of Frisk 100 times over, he just reset out of sadistic cruelty and then got fucked over before he could rekill Frisk for the last time.

>>717457229
they probably start melting
monsters can only have so much power, yeah? presumably even supercharged with a human soul/s that would still be true

>>717457034
>Using AI.
You lost any legitimacy in this argument. Please play the game instead of asking for a bot

>>717429010
Then how did Frisk beat "God of Hyperdeath" Asriel Dreemur with a whopping 6 souls?

>>717449934
no, kris being a xer/xim is literally just the fandom projecting and him not denying because why would he
the player character being a shitty gender ambiguous sprite is just so the player can self insert better it has no actual relevance to the story

>>717429576
The human souls would still rebel even if there were 7, it's just that Asriel was a good person and literally all of his evil intent was erased the instant he regained his personality. The entire fight was just a larp to get him to calm down.

>>717457508
With Hopes and Dreams. It's not like Asriel got punched to death, he just got convinced he should stop fighting.

>>717456589
>There's enough people that can attest to her authority.
Her return scene in True Pacifist debunks this and you're still avoiding the context of your recent murders in Neutral.
Toby Fox himself could tell you to your face that you're wrong and you'd still defend Whoriel anyway.

>>717457508
asriel is a small snot faced kid that agreed to a murder plot, him getting souls also presumably made his empathy come back so of course he would pussy out

>>717457492
I'm factually correct and you have to same fag me with "ai lol" because you can't actually defend your argument. I'm correct, Toby knows i'm correct and so does every other anon ITT that isn't you. Your image literally supports my factual statements regarding monsters emotional states being tied to the strength of their souls.

Oh grok's finished, it says "Yes Anon is completely media illiterate"

so when is toby going to include the super secret guitar battle against the knight where you play Black

>>717454885
Deltarune is not a prequel and asgore will kill Sans and it WILL be funny and deserved. Also, Toby ALREADY made me hate the faggot.

>>717457034
>>717457738
Jewgle's AI summary garbage hallucinates shit like crazy and is essentially worthless in every way. This doesn't exonerate Whoriel in any way, it just makes you into a fag.
>media literacy
You are a faggot.

>>717457492
NTA but it's just a summary of the wiki, why do you guys get so butthurt over summaries? You can only post one image and making a collage of multiple rare in game text boxes every time you want to argue on /v/ is annoying. You'd have a better argument if you trolled him with some
>the tranny wiki KEK
Shit or something

>>717456701
It's not fanon, it's the plot, kill yourself

>>717437261
Its not ireedemable dogshit and it has decent production values that get better the later into the game you get
It's a full game too without any blatantly missing content
Does that mean it's good? Not really, but it has some cool moments and is playable if you are interested. You won't leave it thinking
>wow that was a 10/10 masterpiece
But you might think
>it was decent enough

>>717457952
All I hear is "you're right anon, I agree with you, but you're a faggot" so it's business as usual. Another good day adding some much needed culture to the (loli) /v/agina board.

>>717439338
You can literally see Asgore cleaning the bathroom from the vents before Kris makes the call he was always there
The real suspicous part is that Carol shows up in the weird route even though Kris doesn't call her there
Which implies that Carol was coming anyway and that Kris calling the person on the phone didn't change shit

>>717457860
When he adds the Knight into the Susiezilla minigame

>>717457682
>Her return scene in True Pacifist debunks this and you're still avoiding the context of your recent murders in Neutral.
True Pacifist supports me, because every monster respects her authority as the Queen once the Flowey thing is over, and I do recognize the context of the neutral endings, yet what happened to Chara and Asriel is WORSE than the neutral endings. Monsterkinds hope of coexisting with humans was shattered and their prince was dead.
>Toby Fox himself could tell you to your face that you're wrong and you'd still defend Whoriel anyway.
Calm down. I think Toriel is wrong in a lot of things, but I just don't believe she would've been capable of convincing the monsters against revenge just after Asriel’s death.

>>717458169
I'm calling you a faggot because of the hallucinated dogshit from a barely functional AI text model and for screeching about media literacy like a Twitternigger. It makes my own arguments against Whoriel look bad.

>>717457995
AI summary often hallucinates and makes shit up. Adding up, the wiki supports a bunch of tranny headcanon such as non-binary Kris with their 47 they/them citations and whatnot. It's not a good source.

>>717457947
Sans avenged me by fucking Kris' mom. I will pacify Asgore by giving him shortstack Alphys.

>>717457738
Post ONE text in the actual game that says monsters weaken without hope. I will wait.

>>717458351
>hallucinated dog shit
It's a summary of the wiki that's (unlike a lot of wiki and ai shit) factually correct. It's fair enough to hate AI but i posted it because the faggot toriel lover wouldn't stop his schizo babble about the games plot being "fanfic shit" and i am not going to spend 30 minutes making a collage of ingame text proving my point that he won't read anyways.

I'm correct. If you think you look bad because i'm factually correct in my interpretation of the games story, then idk kill yourself ai buck broken nigger.

>>717458628
v faggots will do anything but actually remember the game they played

>>717458628
I don't even hate AI, I use it all the time for other shit, I'm just telling you not to use hallucinated garbage for arguments you fucking retard.

>>717458628
The AI has links to what they're pulling from. Post them here so we can see it directly from the source.

>>717458568
You already posted it the image that proves my point and image reposts are not allowed in threads. Monsters defense is directly tied to their emotional state. When they don't want to fight (that's emotions) it weakens them. That is ingame text YOU posted. Anyone who is not autistic can then link that with the entire narrative of asgore doing everything he did just so that they had some hope and wouldn't become depressed and give up on life.

>>717458553
It would've been funnier if sans was the judge. Especially since that was his thing in undertale.

>>717458861
Nothing on what I posted says monsters get weak without HOPE. Not wanting to fight doesn't mean you're HOPELESS. Now post an in-game text that says anything about monsters weakening or getting stronger via hope like your AIslop said.

>>717458861
And for the record, autist, i never once stated monsters without hope instantly die (which is what you latched onto in your first reply to me). I stated they become weak and vulnerable and fucking depressed, and that they need hope or positive emotions to function. They get all fucked and weak and depressed without that.

>>717458861
Sorry anon, you're dealing with an autist who refuses to comprehend subtext.

>>717459109
>He has zero literacy. If it's not written in gold laced scripture it is not possible. The power of autism is unbeatable. I will NEVER UNDERSTAND EMOTIONS AND SUBTLE NARRATIVES. I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IMPLICATIONS.
You're retarded man. Toriel sucks ass, i'm not arguing with a low functioning austist anymore. Go play the game again.

>AIlover is starting to samefag like crazy.
You can just concede, bro. It isn't that deep.

what the fuck is going on

>>717459373
One schizo had a melty.

>>717459373
This is what determination looks like in real life.

>>717459373
can't tell which side is arguing for what

>>717459373
Autistic toriel fag seethes because they don't understand subtext and story beats that aren't verbatim written out and filed in triplicate.

>>717454885
This
Asgore torture porn is more funny to toby than sans being sans

>>717459490
All I am arguing is that monsters dying because they don't have hope is fanon. That's it.

>>717459571
And you're wrong you dumb nigger

surely the presence of this cute puppy will cease the fighting in this thread
you don't want to fight in front of the puppy, do you?

when's toby going to give us a GOOD vessel again?

>>717459760
I want to FIGHT that puppy

>>717428694 (OP)
do dark worlds even exist in undertale?

>>717459795
Soon... the best human girl must RETURN.

>>717459863
the underground is suspiciously similar to a dark world
we know it isn't because we can see the sunset at the end of true pacifist, but it is strange

>>717459571
>they die without hope
I literally never stated that. You flung all that shit over that autistic misunderstanding? I said they need hope to FUNCTION, because they need positive emotions like hope or love to not be weak and depressed. They are easier to kill if they are depressed hopeless chuds, which asgore wanted to avoid, and they'd also just be depressed and miserable and would probably want to kill themselves eventually since they're functionally immortal unless they have kids. Humans in the real world (except your autistic ass) need social interactions to FUNCTION. They won't literally drop dead from being alone but they become weaker and more susceptible to mental and physical ailments. It's the same thing for monsters in UT regarding hope or other positive emotions like love.

>>717454885
>Chapter 5 will end up with him and Asgore making peace, and with Asgore probably accepting the fact he is divorced and won't get Toriel back.
That is the most boring fucking way for this Sans/Asgore plotline to get resolved.

>>717454706
>>717455198
>GEE WILIKERS, my reputation is THAT shit? People will seethe for a decade at my ex-wife (I would kill them for this btw), and NOBODY will read the walls of text they dump non-stop, just out of sheer principle!?!? This YEARS-LENGTH of time is my fans ONLY chance to convince others that she's not perfect, before Toby Fox RESTORES her GOOD STANDING next chapter?!?!? My MORTAL SIN in Deltarune will be SO EGRIOUS AND CARTOONISHLY EVIL that any and all defenses of me will be FLOODED with HATE and MEMES?!?!?! This will extend to the great UNDERTALE argument, sending everything back to ZERO. Whether it's 11 hours or 11 years from now, my fans will STILL be WAITING for my """great redemption"""??!?!?
>YABBA DABBA DUI IF IM LUCKY MAYBE I GET TO KILL MYSELF IN A SECOND TOBY FOX GAME, THANKAROONIES TORI

>>717460045
>kill themselves eventually since they're functionally immortal unless they have kids.
That's only for Boss Monsters. Anyways, I see what you're saying, but that applies to literally every living being, even animals. I guess a depressed monster might not want to fight and thus be weaker, but it isn't a monster exclusive thing or anything.

>>717459972
Frisk Chara and Kris are all boys you tranny

what's asriel doing in the meantime?

>>717460286
K. B. C.

>>717460286
holy based yabba dabba doo poster

>>717458064
Nice. Seems worth.

>>717460384
Kentucky Bried Chicken?
Kris Brisk Chara?

>>717460286
>MAYBE I GET TO KILL MYSELF IN A SECOND TOBY FOX GAME
i keep forgetting asgore can potentially do all of that and fucking kneel and kill himself onscreen, leaving everything to an 8 year old that just kicked his ass

>>717428694 (OP)
Canonically, he was going against someone who could just rewind and try again every time he died, so he was going to lose eventually, regardless of how strong he was.

>>717437261
Pacifist ending is retarded but I like everything else about it

>>717460583
Someone will probably fix it. Maybe.

>>717460362
Boys look like THIS???

>>717460506
Kek, based, canon. But yours good, too, if you replace Frisk with Betty

I'd like the human avatarposter if he was less of a yurifag.

>>717460645
No, tranny, they don't look like anything in your avatarfag folder

>>717460286
>Torielniggers have to resort to DBSpic spam
What's next, shartyfaggot wojak spam?

>>717460312
It's not monster exclusive, but their bodies are synced to their souls which makes their emotions have more of a physical effect on them, unlike humans. A depressed human will be weak and what not due to being depressed but the monster will literally be more vulnerable, weaker and easier to kill on a physical level. His defensive stats will go down, his health will be lower, his attack his will be reduced. This is directly covered in the game, and covered in the alphys lab sections when they reveal the determination experiments.

>>717460583
why was it bad

>>717460286
Most intelligent toriel hag lover.

>>717457508
Frisk is the narrative's favorite child, therefore they can do anything as long as it's in the narrative's favor.
Except for saving goatbro. The Dog would never allow that.

>>717441097
Probably the casus belli by the humans to wage war against the monsters in the first place because it happened before

>>717460557
Everyone forgets this when sucking off asscuck

>>717460798
I don't know who you're talking about, but you sound broken.

>>717460908
Edgy shitty bad writing and a (genuinely stupid) suicide that was just there to have a suicide and make you go "DAMN. THAT'S DARK. THIS IS NOT YOUR MOMS UNDERTALE. FUCK. I NEED A CIGARETTE". Also trips on itself to be "canon" with undertale.

>>717460828
I see what you mean. But there's nothing that says it lowers their health or attack. But I get the general concept, even it leans towards the headcanon aspect, even if it has canon basis.

>>717460557
Asgore is also wrong, (most) asgore fans can just admit that unlike toriel fags.

>>717442749
she fucking died so she's just a voice in asriel's head

>>717460286
K, B.

>>717461209
don't tell me the protag kills themself

>>717461306
Deltarune Asgore fags are exempt from this, btw.

>>717461510
You shouldn't play it, then.

>>717460781
There’s several humanbros. I don't like yuri at all, for example..

toby 'SUCKS TRANNY COX' is a stinking tumblrfag.

>>717461510
It depends on what you do at the end.

>>717460583
>>717461209
Kitsunefuckers deserve it for not dispensing justice on the most evil monster in the underground. At least Alphys experimented on monsters that were already dead instead of her own 6 year old child.

>>717461253
>even if it has canon basis
You genuinely won't believe in subtext and implied narratives, will you? I'm not annoyed anymore or trying to flame I just didn't realize you were actually that kind of autistic. There's a lot of hidden narratives in the media you've enjoyed in the past you've missed or ignored because it wasn't verbatim written out via ingame text, you should go back and check some of those out. Especially ones you think the "community looks too deep into". Do you enjoy Kojima narratives because he ensure every single plot point and detail is explained in a fully fleshed out ingame wiki? If yes, that explains a lot about the type of person you are.

Either way thanks for being a target for me to say nigger, i honestly enjoy all UT/DR discussions since none of my faggot friends irl like it so even these types of back and forths are fun.


I am factually correct though.

>>717461585

>>717461510
Take the based route show every monster some REAL justice instead

I did it, I am winnar.

[spoiler[ I'm Wane Gaster- *BOOM* AHHHHH!! [/spoiler]

>>717461564
That goes without saying, anon.

>>717461685
>SUCKS TRANNY COX
That title however goes to Austin, the creator of LISA.

>>717460908
The pacifist ending hinges on you feeling sympathy for the female fox donut steel but she's too retarded and evil to deserve any.

>>717461919
LOL you can't even defend troon without having troons shit on you and attempt to ruin your life because they didn't like your tone.

It's really lovely when the things you don't like tend to ruin everything for themselves with zero effort on your part :^)

>>717461751
>You genuinely won't believe in subtext and implied narratives, will you?
No, I do. I personally like this fanon myself and use it in my personal works. I was just saying it isn't something explicitly said in text and up for interpretation. You seem to agree with this based on this part:
>you've missed or ignored because it wasn't verbatim written out via ingame text
Anyways, I do see your point, I think it's more so you didn't understand I was explicitly talking about things in the actual text, not implicit messages.
>Either way thanks for being a target for me to say nigger, i honestly enjoy all UT/DR discussions since none of my faggot friends irl like it so even these types of back and forths are fun.
No problem, schizo tsudenere anon. Your meltdown was amusing.

>this thread

>>717461919
>apologizes to the very people he was trying to defend because they got triggered

>>717462089
All KEKgore's fault.

>>717440747
Toriel's car takes up two lanes

>>717462003 here
I'm trans btw, not really relevant but I just wanted to let you all know.

>>717462174
We knew that already.

>>717462087
>when you boil it down we essentially agreed with each other the entire time
Anonymous image board moment LOL

>>717461706
Kitsunefuckers found another way to dispense justice - they did it through the power of FANON

>>717462146
Serves the traitor right, troons are a pseudoscience and should not be tolerated in society. Period.

Gote sex

>>717462159
The roads in general don't make sense to begin with, there's so many points that demand extremely strict turning capabilities instead of having actual loops and Chapter 2 makes it apparent these roads and cars literally only exist so that God can railroad you into going to where he wants you to go, the Library, instead of dicking around town.

>>717462259
It's not page 10 yet, anon...

>>717462259
Hey, you can't post it now!

>>717462159
it's fitting (barely) because so too does her ass.

I want to breed this tubby little cloud slut soo bad.

>>717462089
I'm scared

>>717462089
Why did Toby do it bros?
What is the narrative significance of Sans fucking Kris's mom?

Gaster's fight will be 6 phases long one for each soul color (orange and cyan will be a single soul and will work like Ikaruga)

>>717462159
So does her big fucking ass.

>>717462159
12 yards long, 2 lanes wide,
65 tons of American Pride!
Cungadero! Cungadero!

>>717462515
Toriel is the town bicycle.

YOUR TAKING TOO LONG

>>717462515
It's in the prophecy, he had literally no choice as a puppet on fate's strings. And as we've established, only the Annoying Dog, literally God, can avert the prophecy (stopping the Queen's Chariot with a traffic jam on the normal route).

>>717462414
>I want to breed this tubby little cloud slut soo bad.
Youeth and mineself both, worm. That little harlot can sucketh a good cocke.

>>717461209
>edgy
No you hyperbolic fuck they clearly did it because in the early fandom the idea was often written "what if one of the children gave up their soul willingly" which when people dwelled on it would be written as either integrity or kindness but in the devs desire to fit yellow in canon they pidgeon holed justice as doing it even though it doesnt really fit. It has nothing to do with edge and everything to do with early undertale fanfiction

>>717462515
Toriel sucks, that's the message. Goat moms are obsoleted by fox moms and doe moms.

>>717462582
More like the town camper van.

>>717462569
https://youtu.be/PI_Jl5WFQkA?feature=shared&t=67
Uh, Torielsissies?

>>717462159
>giant asshole woman that can kick 99% of the towns asses gets a car that somehow takes up 2 lanes
kek

>>717462651
Cheers, you great blue worm factory. Thou hast tasteth.

>>717462515
Revenge for Hockey Stick.

>>717462756
Psh, women drivers, amiright?

>>717462739
My god

>>717462651
>gets to fuck the weather duo
>canonically very hot
>guaranteed that he will be relevant later on due to his insanely broken powers
>guaranteed that he will be relevant due to not actually showing the thing he was going to do in chapter 2 (where he floats up in the air before turning to stone)
>funniest part of chapter 3 next to early tenna
>tons of meta nods
>is the only character that can be fought every chapter (yes the lampshade during the weather duo dojo fight counts)
>will inevitably become your second in command on the weird route, or try to join the knight/titan as their second-in-command
He fuckinge woneth.

>>717463116
but he has no ass.

>>717463139
Just as Berdly can yearn for a world where he has nipples, so too can Rouxls yearn for a world where he has a perfectly chiseled, perfectly rounded ass.

>>717462756
>undyne unphased
why did toby make her job so hard bros... narratively she should've been EASILY the strongest lightner in a dark world...

>>717450116
Kris is the cage
Noelle is the girl
The Knight is the prince

This was revealed to me in a dream

>>717463116
>(yes the lampshade during the weather duo dojo fight counts)
nigga.

isn't the point of this game that le power of friendship wins

>>717463139
Not if I have anything to say about it

>>717463116
He's gonna try to join the Knight and get summarily executed. Mark my fucking words.

>>717463232
I dont maketh the rules, he does.

>>717462659
You retroactive headcanon doesn't make it real. It was a couple of 16 and 17 year olds than wanted a dark ending and didn't know how to write that in a way that wasn't vapid and cringe.

>>717463116
reminder that he will be the sans of deltarune, whether you like it or not

>>717437261
It was written by schizophrenic furfags, fuck no.

>>717458064
I agree with this

>>717463419
I believed this before Chapter 4 sidelined him.

>>717463419
he's..... irroulxavent

>>717463495
>schizophrenic furfags
You just described the population of these threads.

>>717463345
They literally started making the game when that shit was ongoing and every little shit that age was shitting out fanfictions about "what if frisk gave his soul to asgore what if frisk gave his soul to asriel (one of the first fancomics of the game period) what if kindness what if integrity etc etc. The ending is fucked but youve got motive miced up in your spite

>>717463621
he is the darkner who appears the most besides ralsei, chapter 4's tone simply didnt fit him yet

>>717463621
When even Starwalker only made an appearance as a statue, confirming he's not a special Darkner like Ralsei, that's when I knew all these chucklefucks were taking a backseat until the obligatory "everyone you recruited chips in to help you before The Roaring stones them all" scene in the narrative climax.

>>717463764
Except he stops being a statue to help save Jackenstein.

>>717463702
>you're wrong because they copied other teenagers badly written fanfics
Fair enough

>>717463690
I know
Every yellow thread is about schizos wanting to fuck the donut steel characters that were intentionally designed for furries to goon for.

>>717463764
>that's when I knew all these chucklefucks were taking a backseat until the obligatory "everyone you recruited chips in to help you before The Roaring stones them all" scene in the narrative climax.
I have the feeling Deltarune will be really fucking boring, I feel like my high enjoyement of it so far (especially Chapter 4) was just due to expectations and build-up.

>>717463621
>selling your rouxlskoin when you know toby didnt give him the most broken power ever in all of UT/DR for no reason, and simultaneously loves joke characters having broken hax (sans)
Retardeth

>>717463946
That IS genuinely what im saying. Its more impressive that they got anything right at all despite that. I still love the zenith of monsterkind

>>717464041
You say you know then continue to imply that these threads aren't like that either
Donut steel OC's aside

>>717464041
I'm talking about Deltarune threads, you retard

>>717435949
DRIVING IN MY CAAAR

>>717464041
Should we make a thread where we only goon to humans, then?

>>717464087
RoulxsGOD... you're making me believe again... I must HOLD my Roulxscoin.

>>717463116
its obvious that rouxls will be the monoma of deltarune
he will "enable" an impossible battle, to be possible
>can teleport anywhere
>can teleport others, and other objects
>can give his fucking busted OP cards to anyone (he did this with Tenna)
>still has an unknown powerup
he will be the second-in-command to (You)

post cerobas

>>717464410
Be strong.

>>717464693
yiff_in_hell_furfag.jpg

>"Here's why Dess can't be the knight"
>look inside
>it's just someone assuming the voice in the code takes place during the game despite Chapter 1's text making no sense when read as someone who's already been lost for years

>>717464837
You will never be a SomethingAwful goon but just like the 10bux paying prototrannies of SA, you will snip your dick off and kill yourself within 6 months.

>>717463764
Starwalker was simply preeeteeending
yeah...

>>717437261
The only good undertale game.

>>717463764
I was kinda sad when I realized Starwalker had a statue because I really liked the "Starwalker is from Castle Town and doesn't petrify" theory

>>717464745
I believe in the kaards.

>Chapter 5 is all about Asgore figuring out he's wrong and becoming friends with Sans
>The Knight plot will end with the reveal that it's the Dess but you have to move on and Kris and Carol get to say their goodbyes at the end, and then Carol accepts Noelle's and Susie's relationship
>Chapter 7 is all about defeating the biggest coolest Titan shonestyle and finding a way to reinterpret the prophecy to save the town and take a photo with everyone and happy ever after ending
What would be (you)r reaction?

>>717465065

>>717465002
He's literally pretending, he shows up later completely normal.

>>717465065
I would kill Toby in real life.

>>717429010
>Human soul says "no"
>Monster gets cucked to death

>>717465002
every npc in that room has "stone" in their filename, except starwalker

>>717465167
That's not a monster though

>>717465065
I would fill my diaper with a rage shit.

>>717465167
>monster
meanwhile, asriel + chara, two children, could solo a village of bloodlusted humans (if not for asriel cucking out)

>>717465065
I would become Kris Benoit.

>>717465065
Unsurprised. Determination is a hell of a drug, but it's still restricted to the confines of what God and his narrative will allow you to do. Else we would've figured out a canonical way to save Asriel from turning back into Flowey a long time ago.

>>717465065
Go to /v/ to laugh at anons.

>>717465291
Also worth pointing out that Asriel was able to fully resist Chara trying to kill them all
I'd bet the only reason the human souls were able to be turned against Flowey is because he doesn't have a monster soul

>>717465065
>Chuds once again setting up unrealistic expectations for the game, wanting it to be an edgy creepypasta about hidden lore that no casual player would understand

>>717450531
>>717451630
>they won't try to like seal us again
So worst thing that happens is them getting put in the same situation they were already in?

>>717464879
The knight is the representation of Kris's guilt over what happened to Dess because he's Omori'd as fuck.

>>717465457
The difference is that after war it's very probable that monsters are much weaker, and also much less in numbers, not too mention under hundreds of years of potential technological and magical stagnation. Another war wouldn't end with them getting sealed again, it would be full-on Genocide.

>>717465457

>>717465457
The worst situation is they toss in a couple dirty bombs before they seal up the cave.

>>717465457
No, the worst thing that can happen is human deciding to finish the job.

The fact there are people who actually think the big twist with Dess will be that she's just dead, normally dead and everything with Noelle trying to find her was some "she can't le move on" denial shit, severely disappoints me
I trust Toby not to fumble his story like that

>>717465697
She's lost and Kris is broken over it. Doesn't mean she's dead.

>>717465697
People have spent four years trying to outsmart the story and then when the story actually progressed with something fairly straightforward (if you've been obsessing over it for four years) now they say the obvious thing is too obvious

>>717465785
I wasn't replying directly to the Omori post, I started typing before it and I just mean people in general
"Dess is le dead and it's about escapism and moving on" is an actual thing I see normies say, it'd be such a shitty cop out to avoid telling an intriguing mystery for the sake of some "moral of the story" that's been done a million times

>>717465908
certain UTDR fags have been doing this for years, so it doesn't shock me that they still do even with chapter 4 and 5

I think we might be auto-saged btw.

>>717463690

>>717465697
She might not be literally dead, but her being lost is definitely a thematic analogue for death. And the ending will be a thematic analogue for overcoming grief.
This would make ABSOLUTELY no sense if we're supposed to compare Dess' situation to the amalgamates, who literally just keep living after being experimented on and essentially revived.

>>717465697
that would be a firewatch tier disappointment
im glad toby isint retarded like everyone thinks he is

>>717465982
well guess ill post this then

>>717465982
>maybe
All these furry porn doesn't bode well with anyone

>>717465908
Denying Dessknight after Chapter 3-4 is like if Undertale cut off right after True Lab and you denied Flowey being Asriel because the entries made it too obvious lol.

>>717465585
>>717465610
>>717465618
>>717465649
Which is what would have happened even if Asgore went for the long plan. Either way they're getting out thanks to taking human souls after all.

They have to work on the assumption they aren't that outpaced in power, that absorbing human souls just made Asgore that powerful, or that they're able to break out and avoid humanity's retribution as best that can.

>>717466093
Nice human tits.

>>717465982
YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS
SAY IT WITH HIM, FOLKS!

>>717465908
>People have spent four years trying to outsmart the story
You mean when they questioned Kris being the knight and were right?

>>717466256

>>717466256
I. LOVE. TV!!!

Why does the Knight need Toriel?

>>717466289
Kris Knight had shit against it like it happening immediately after Queen tells us all Lightners can make fountains, and the Chapter 2 fountain seemingly being made while Noelle and Berdly were already in the room
Dess Knight has nothing against it besides "muh code voice" and that's literally impossible to be concurrent with the chapters if you think about the timeline for more than 1 second

>>717464745
His theme is also one of the songs that Kris plays on the Piano meaning that his theme is diegetic.

>>717466420
She was gonna be the sacrifice before Undyne barged in.

>>717466453
Kris already knew how to make fountains before Queen explained it. Kris Knight was basically correct in everything.

>>717466497
>>717464745
Ralsei also recognizes it if Kris plays it on the big piano, though apparently Ralsei can hear some other non-diegetic music

>>717465934
Well "escapism" and "moving on" are part of what Deltarune is "about," but that doesn't mean Toby's going to do the most by-the-numbers execution of that possible
Like halfway through the story we already have Susie trying to use the Dark World to resurrect the dead, and her ending the Chapter with her whole speech about wanting nothing to change and the good times to last forever seemingly having her totally aligned with Kris and "the bad guys'" motives, even though their ideas of what that means are totally incompatible and everything's going to get blown up when Susie finds out how much Kris and Ralsei are still hiding from her.

>>717466597
Do you think Ralsei sat there in uncomfortable silence when everyone played the freedom motif on the piano to see if the characters recognize it

>>717466597
It's noteworthy that Susie doesn't seem confused about the mention of Rouxls' song, whereas she only recognizes Dark Sanctuary because Ralsei was humming the melody.

>>717466453
>Kris Knight had shit against it like it happening immediately after Queen tells us all Lightners can make fountains
That did turn out to be a coincidence though.

Dessknight basically has the same thing against it Krisknight did. It being boring that the mystery would be already solved so it seems likely there is more to it than it seems.

>>717466289
Kris Knight was not even close to a certainty, there was plenty of reasons to doubt it and consider alternatives, which is why people spent four years considering alternatives.
With what we know now there is essentially no reason to believe The Knight is anyone but December Holiday.

>>717466578
>Kris Knight was basically correct
Except it wasn't. lol

>>717466824
>Except it wasn't. lol
Kris Knight believers were correct in that Kris was explicitly working in service of the enemy.
TV World was only made so The Knight could kidnap Undyne, who's necessary for some kind of sacrifice, and Tenna was explicitly tasked with stalling the gang long enough for Knight and Undyne's arrivals under the terms that he'd get a new everlasting audience to watch him.

>Krisknight: Kris makes a fountain dramatically on the end cliffhanger of Chapter 2
>Carolknight: Carol comes in with an immediate, obviously threatening presence and has a huge sword in plain sight in a room you're forced to enter
>Dessknight: It makes sense if you've been following the lore enough to know Dess is mysteriously missing, has a connection to Asriel and is associated with bats (all things a casual player could easily miss or forget)
>"Dess is too obvious"

>>717466795
>Dessknight basically has the same thing against it Krisknight did.
Kris Knight's foundation was "Kris opened a fountain" which had the immediate counterpoint of "anyone can open a fountain"
Dess Knight's foundation is "The Knight has antlers and wields a baseball bat" and it is extremely difficult to explain why anyone else would be doing that

>>717466992
>Kris Knight believers were correct in that Kris was explicitly working in service of the enemy.
But they were wrong in that Kris wasn't the Knight. lol

>>717466824
"Basically" is the keyword here.

If Krisknighters were right because the idea of Kris working on the player's opposing side was still true then wouldn't that mean Ralsei twist villainers were also right because the idea of Ralsei hiding shit until it's conveniently necessary to explain was still true

>>717467170
Yeah. Ralsei was sus was right.

So, which do you prefer?
>Knight is a Dess amalgam from a failed initial resurrection attempt
>Knight is Dess plus Kris's original soul
>Knight is a Darkner made from something covered in Dess's dust
>Knight is a Darkner made directly from Dess's corpse to prevent it from dusting while Kris and Carol work on the resurrection
>Knight is Dess's corpse piloted by FRIEND
>something else

>>717466992
>TV World was only made so The Knight could kidnap Undyne, who's necessary for some kind of sacrifice
We don't know that. The way there are gaps in that conversation, it might be another bit of misdirection.

>>717466824
>>717467042
>With what we know now there is essentially no reason to believe The Knight is anyone but December Holiday.
You'd be throwing out everything hinting towards the knight being Kris's shadow counterpart.
>Dess Knight's foundation is "The Knight has antlers and wields a baseball bat" and it is extremely difficult to explain why anyone else would be doing that
A shadowcounterpart who is taking the form of Dess because Kris is torn up about her.

>>717467042
The Knight also has a direct Hyper Goner reference
This would make literally no sense to include unless the Knight is either Asriel or someone with a close connection to him
There's also the stars and the Echo Flower talking about stars probably being Dess and Dess having a bunch of stars as decorations in her room but that's not as damning as the HyperGooner

>>717467170
You've now noticed Ralsei has put is bedroom right at the end of the chapter villain corridor.

The Knight both is and isn't Dess. Chapter 4 literally spelled it out to us that "trying to bring back a dead monster with Dark Fountains doesn't end well" not only through picrel, a warped echo of Gerson that also isn't really Gerson, but also the fact that fucking RALSEI knows about this, implying that a similar event is vital to the prophecy he's burdened with knowing.

>>717467404
Knight can't be a Darkner because it goes through the Light World to drag Undyne into the bunker and is seen by Susie in the light world
NEXT

>>717467218
The Black Glass is some kind of tainted Determination/"crystalized darkness" in the same way that the Shadow Crystals are crystalized Determination
Dess was lost in the Dark World contained in the Shelter and was transformed into The Knight by being exposed to the Black Glass

>>717467218
>Knight is a Dess amalgam from a failed initial resurrection attempt
>Knight is Dess plus Kris's original soul
A mix of these two. She can't be pure darkner because Susie seesher running to bunker in the end of Chapter 3.

>>717467218
Second.

>>717466256
I LOVE TV

>>717467272
I think The Knight is a real character with real motivations and relationships and not some gay evil doppelganger because Toby Fox is a good writer

>>717466256
>... WHERE... WHERE'S THE AUDIENCE? WHERE'D THEY GO...? WHERE ARE THEY!?

>>717467586
>I PAID THEM SO MANY (You)S TO BE HERE!!!

>>717466096
>all these furry porn
>just kriss and frisk porn and very little of it anyways
interesting esl sama

>>717467404
The Knight isn't a mindless evil monster and it also isn't a Darkner. It's not something like the Gerson statue.
Whatever she's become now she is fundamentally Dess

>>717467404
Ralsei knows that because he also knows the rules of Deltarune's world.

>>717467437
Never said The Knight was a Darkner, though. If anything, they could be what happens when you somehow pull off the process with a fountain that'd make a Titan, seeing as how The Knight's body shape matches one of the side Titans from picrel.
And Titans aren't an actual object, they're fear manifest. They have no real world counterpart because they exist entirely as a concept that is present in both light and dark, it's just that the abundantly dark gives them form and mass.

>>717467652
Where the FUCK is the Frisk porn? All I see is a nude FemKris.

>>717467550
That's making a lot of assumption about the nature of what the knight is to Kris.

Also
>Is a good writer
>Wrote a mask villain allegedly so obvious everyone already knows who they are

>>717466256
I LOVE KRUSIE

>>717467751
must have gotten deleted but I know I saw some earlier

>>717467676
The statue wasn't mindless, it laughed when Susie realized it wasn't Gerson. Thought that does mean Ralsei straight up backstab instakilled a living Darkner

>>717467752
Masked Man being Claus was obvious and that didn't make the twist any worse
And Toby has gone on record saying you'll see "how unoriginal he is" if you play Mother 3

Come on, guys, just twenty posts, we can do it

>>717467869
such power

>>717467819
>Is a good writer
>Copied a plot wholesale so everyone has already guessed what happens

The idea of Dess being revealed as the knight "too early" is also flawed because we're literally halfway into the story
And that's not even accounting for the fact either Chapter 6 or 7 isn't "part of the prophecy"

>>717467869
It's over.

>>717467676
Sound of Justice wasn't mindless, it was actively malicious and delighted in tormenting Susie. It laughs at her confusion, and thrills in terrifying her when she realizes it's not Gerson.
It also doesn't contribute to the slain counter even though Ralsei pretty objectively kills it, when even the Titan Spawn contribute.
>b-but that's a Kris stat, not a Ralsei stat-
Even if you had Susie land the killing blow on a Ttian Spawn, the stat would still be attributed to Kris.

>>717467934
>we're literally halfway into the story
That's early.

>>717467791
It's not on the archive. I think you're just schizo, anon.

while I completely understand peoples issues with uty and the talk of the waifufagging, and I may engage with it some myself, the final battle against martlet astounds me. by all means it should make me cringe with its "original character powering up" but it comes across very genuine

One last push!

>Gerson gets so depressed studying the prophecy and can't a way to remake it into a good end to the point where he doesn't finish his book
>Somehow copes that this means you can totally change the prophecy
FatalistCHADS will win.

>>717468054
Im probably just mixing up threads over the vast timespans we've all spent on this hellhole. Im sure someone in the last week has posted frisk

If the Knight's identity isn't a random asspull in the last 2 minutes of the game Toby is a bad writer because the identity has to be the whole mystery box guise

>>717468128
As always, execution is key

>>717468157
there's no chance

>>717467752
Good writing is when your story has no structure or themes to direct it and everything is random bullshit so nobody can outsmart you

>>717467818
>>717468004
This is really reading into a miniboss we know almost nothing about
Either way it's unambiguously a Darkner, Ralsei calls it and/or Gerson "a Darkner patterned after the memory of a loved one," and The Knight is unambiguously a Lightner capable of operating in the Light World and possessing the Determination to make Dark Fountains.

The mystery doesn't need to be in who the knight is.
It can be in how, why, and what the knight is, as well as for those around it working with it.

>>717466256
FUCK YEAH I FUCKING LOVE TV WOOOOO

>>717468170
Reminder, the only time the prophecy has EVER been successfully averted is when GOD HIMSELF intervened with a traffic jam so powerful, blessed by his Doggone Might, that it actually stopped the Queen's unstoppable chariot.
You WILL be forced to deal with only one ending. You WILL not save Dess. Kris WILL kill himself when he fails to create the happiest ending. You WILL relearn the lesson that you can only do what God allows you to, just like how you weren't allowed to save Asriel from turning back into Flowey.

We won. Janny lost

>>717468314
>Good writing is when your story has no structure or themes to direct it and everything is random bullshit so nobody can outsmart you
Five Night Freddybear and its consequences...

>>717468323
That's right

>>717468197
Frisk IS cute, so I don’t blame that anon.

>>717468323
That's another reason why Dess > Carol
If it's Carol, we already know EXACTLY why she's doing it: she wants to bring Dess back
There's no "how" or "why" with Carol, but there would be with Dess

Goodbye, losers

>>717468392
That's not even FNAF's fault specifically, that's storytellers having such inflated egos that instead of being proud that someone could correctly read their narrative and figure out where it's going, they get pissed and rewrite it sharply and abruptly to go "NUH-UH, YOU WERE WRONG!" combined with internet theorist culture giving way more opportunities for people to correctly speculate what happens next on a much more frequent and wider basis.

>>717468225
true

>>717468546
I haven't read Homestuck but from what I've skimmed about Hussie, that's kinda what Hussie was like right?